Latest / Houselights: A Film Director Podcast / The Batman (2022) - Matt Reeves | Houselights #291: Wing of Batman

Transcript

The Batman (2022) - Matt Reeves | Houselights #291: Wing of Batman · Houselights: A Film Director Podcast

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Nerd Party.
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: Welcome back to House Lights. where we are in the
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: final room of the Wing of Batman, our exploration of
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: the Caped Crusader as he has been presented to us
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: by a variety of directors through the decades, where we've
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: gone all the way from 1996, and now we're coming
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: here to the final one in 2022's The Batman by
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: Matt Reeves, starring Robert Pattinson, Mr. Twilight himself, putting on
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: the cowl of the Caped Crusader. I am one of
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: your joyous hosts here in this dim, dim Gotham City.
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: I am the disgruntled butler version of Alfred John Mills.
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: And I am joined by the brooding, mascara-wearing Batman of
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: Tristan Riddell and our eternally vigilant lieutenant, yet-to-be commissioner of police,
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: the James Gordon of our troop, Darren Moser.
• 1:15
  Speaker 3: All right, guys.
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: So here we are with 2022's The Batman by Matt Reeves.
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: This is a movie that once again was greeted by
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: some controversy about who was going to be playing Batman.
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: And it featured a lot of trailer discussions leading up
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: to it that I remember were very much going through
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: with a fine tooth comb about the fact that he
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: was wearing eye makeup and there were fans saying he's
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: always worn eye makeup on screen. And Basically, it just
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: all devolved into those sorts of silly conversations. So the
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: thing is, we love to talk about first time seeing it.
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: We love to talk about everything about leading up to it.
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: But Darren, I want to throw it to you first.
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: Given the online back and forth about it, given Robert
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: Pattinson standing as a star coming into it, given Matt
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: Reeves' reputation.
• 2:05
  Speaker 3: How much.
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: were you looking forward to this version of the Batman?
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, this is one of those, I mean, gosh, hasn't
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: it been true with every Batman where they change things up,
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: where people go, Robert Pattinson, like, really? Like, I can't imagine, like,
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: every single time the dice, the deck gets shuffled. People
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: have the same pearl clutching, Martha pearl clutching that goes on.
• 2:30
  Speaker 3: Martha.
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, I had the same, I had kind of
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: the same thing. With the Batman, it would be, But no,
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: I was willing to give him a fair shake because
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: I've seen him act amazingly in many different things.
• 2:47
  Speaker 4: Anyone who's seen other movies besides Twilight knows that he's
• 2:51
  Speaker 4: a fantastic actor.
• 2:53
  Speaker 3: He's a great actor.
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: I'm constantly pointing people toward Good Time, which was one
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: of the Safdie Brothers movies.
• 2:59
  Speaker 3: He's insane. Like it's, he's so good in that movie.
• 3:03
  Speaker 3: It's ridiculous. Ridiculous.
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: Anyway.
• 3:05
  Speaker 4: I think, I think that's the thing is that like
• 3:08
  Speaker 4: the discussion of Pattinson as a bad Batman, I didn't
• 3:12
  Speaker 4: see it. I didn't actually see it that much. I
• 3:14
  Speaker 4: didn't see that much controversy because people who have seen
• 3:18
  Speaker 4: more movies than just Twilight know that he's a fantastic
• 3:21
  Speaker 4: actor and we're just like, yeah, let's see what he's got.
• 3:24
  Speaker 4: So I actually think out of all of the Batman castings,
• 3:27
  Speaker 4: probably besides Christian Bale, I don't think anybody worried about
• 3:30
  Speaker 4: Christian Bale really.
• 3:31
  Speaker 3: Not at all. Not at all.
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 3:32
  Speaker 4: So probably outside of Christian Bale, I think Robert Pattinson
• 3:36
  Speaker 4: had the second least amount of controversy.
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: Maybe just maybe my algorithm was messing me up then
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: because it wasn't even, to your point, it wasn't even
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: necessarily about Pattinson. It was about all of the visual
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: cues that we saw in the movie. Like I was
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: excited to see Batman with a collar. That was exciting
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: to me. I was like, ooh, that's a little love mark.
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: And I think that, you know, I very much, very
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: much remember when we saw him with the blackout eye
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: makeup on in the trailer and.
• 4:05
  Speaker 3: People were like, Batman doesn't wear that.
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: And older fans were all sitting there like, what planet
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: do you live on? Except for Adam West, they've all
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: done this.
• 4:14
  Speaker 3: What are you talking about?
• 4:15
  Speaker 4: That's so funny because in my algorithm, all that I
• 4:19
  Speaker 4: saw was finally they're honest about the makeup the eye makeup.
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: Isn't that so wild like the algorithm sucks man i
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: hate it it's so terrible like it just tailors it
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: because probably one person sent me a link where somebody
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: said something like that i was like ah whatever and
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: then the next time i go into the app it's
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: like don't you hate robert pattinson's eye makeup it's like.
• 4:42
  Speaker 3: No i don't somebody just sent me.
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: A link i think of with eye makeup is when
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: someone pointed it out and someone had made a slow-mo
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: frame by frame cut of Keaton. In Batman Returns. And
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: you notice where it literally goes from shot to shot
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: and he doesn't have the eye makeup for the big
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: pull-off cowl reveal. And it happens so fast in the
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: normal film that you don't even notice. But when it's
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: slowed down, it's very apparent.
• 5:10
  Speaker 4: That always frustrates me because if they cut it six
• 5:13
  Speaker 4: frames later, it wouldn't have been an issue.
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: Anyway....
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: With this one, it's not an issue because I think
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: Reeves really, he stays on point with a lot of
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: his choices here. But this is definitely a Batman to
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: get used to the fact that he is now inhabiting
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: a space where his childhood has more in common with
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: the target audience of the film, if that makes any sense.
• 5:42
  Speaker 3: Tristan, it doesn't make any sense.
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: I don't want you to make it.
• 5:45
  Speaker 3: Okay, all right. When 1989's Batman comes up, Bruce Wayne.
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: As a kid in like the fifties or sixties or whatever,
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: there's footlight frenzy. It's a very, you know, people are
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: still wearing fedoras to the movies sort of thing from
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: his childhood. And that carries through a little bit with, um,
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: while they go to the opera in, in Batman begins, um,
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: That's still that's not really a thing that like people
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: relate to so much sort of thing. This is a
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: Batman who has Nirvana playing in the background.
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: Oh, I get you.
• 6:17
  Speaker 3: The Batmobile looks like a muscle car. Right. Everything's caught
• 6:21
  Speaker 3: up time wise.
• 6:22
  Speaker 4: When they showed the Thomas Wayne political footage and how
• 6:26
  Speaker 4: modern it looked.
• 6:27
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 6:27
  Speaker 4: That was that was kind of a punch to the gut.
• 6:30
  Speaker 4: Like that was a oh, my God. And then when
• 6:32
  Speaker 4: I find out that Robert Pattinson is my age, almost
• 6:36
  Speaker 4: exactly like that one stung a little bit, but not
• 6:39
  Speaker 4: as not, it didn't sting as much as when I
• 6:41
  Speaker 4: found out that the new Superman is younger than me.
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: That's when I'm like, Oh my God, I'm going to
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: die soon.
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: I don't even want to hear it. I'd be going
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: to high school with Alfred at this point. So whatever, man.
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 6:54
  Speaker 4: So Matt Reeves though, what was the first interaction that
• 6:58
  Speaker 4: you guys had with Matt Reeves? Because he wrote, Under
• 7:02
  Speaker 4: Siege 2. That movie's terrible. His first movie that he
• 7:08
  Speaker 4: directed was The Pallbearer, which was a romantic comedy with.
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: God, it was with.
• 7:13
  Speaker 3: Oh, yeah. I never saw it, so whatever. We can
• 7:16
  Speaker 3: just move on. It was produced by J.J.
• 7:19
  Speaker 4: Abrams and starring David Schwimmer and Gwyneth Paltrow.
• 7:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: And.
• 7:25
  Speaker 4: But then... You have the yards that he wrote and
• 7:28
  Speaker 4: then Cloverfield, which he directed, which made a huge splash
• 7:31
  Speaker 4: in 2008.
• 7:32
  Speaker 3: Oh, yeah.
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: That absolutely blew it open for him. Cloverfield was such
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: a massive hit. Like, it's so wild. I'm glad you mentioned,
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: you know, in specific, we're going through. It's so wild
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: to me that people have sort of forgotten Cloverfield. It
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: made such a splash in the day. And since then,
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: nobody even seems to refer to it anymore.
• 7:52
  Speaker 3: It's so weird to me.
• 7:54
  Speaker 4: I think 10 Cloverfield Lane replaced it.
• 7:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's fair.
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: I'd say that's very fair, but I think that also
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: the fact that then the Cloverfield Paradox, I think.
• 8:04
  Speaker 3: Is what it was called, the one they released straight
• 8:05
  Speaker 3: to Netflix.
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah.
• 8:07
  Speaker 3: It didn't just kill the franchise.
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: It smothered it while you were tied up in a
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: corner watching it happen, and you were like, no! Yeah,
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: I think that's why we don't talk about Cloverfield anymore.
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: The OG Cloverfield did a lot of, it was kind
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: of one of the first to do that intrigue mystery
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: really well of the plot. Like not really knowing almost
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: kind of like the matrix was like, can't tell you
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: what the matrix is. You have to see it for yourself.
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: Like we can't tell you what Cloverfield is. You have
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: to see it for yourself. And then, but now you
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: have more things like, you know, Black Mirror and other
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: things that are just way more telling those types of
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: stories that I think you're right, that Cloverfield is kind
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: of settled to the bottom.
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: I would say though, Tristan, as you've taken us through,
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: like Cloverfield, I'll be completely honest, in terms of like
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: a directorial style or imprint or anything, isn't a movie
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: where I'm like, oh, that's a Matt Reeves movie. I
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: would say the first time I see Reeves, the Reeves
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: that can do this Batman emerge is in Let Me In.
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: which is a remake of like a Nordic vampire movie.
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: And I thought his take on it was really good.
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: I've seen both versions. I've seen people trash his version
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: for some reason, but I can definitely see, I could
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: sit down and watch that and then watch the Batman
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: and be like, yes, I can see this is the
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: same person. Like he definitely has a style emerge with
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: Let Me In. But then of course, the Planet of
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: the Apes movies are his real calling card.
• 9:37
  Speaker 4: I was going to say, I'm glad you brought that
• 9:39
  Speaker 4: up because the first time I actually encountered Matt Reeves
• 9:42
  Speaker 4: was Dawn of the Planet of the Apes. And when I,
• 9:46
  Speaker 4: Dawn is an amazing film. A lot of people like
• 9:49
  Speaker 4: War of the Planet of the Apes, but I think
• 9:51
  Speaker 4: it's lesser than Dawn. But when I found out he
• 9:54
  Speaker 4: was doing the Batman, I was like.
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah go ahead.
• 10:00
  Speaker 4: Right you had trust like yeah i had like with
• 10:03
  Speaker 4: dawn of the planet of the apes he had my
• 10:05
  Speaker 4: complete trust because for those of you who haven't seen
• 10:08
  Speaker 4: the reboot trilogy please watch them they're fantastic he didn't
• 10:12
  Speaker 4: do rise but dawn really took it to the next
• 10:16
  Speaker 4: level And where Rise was the rise of the apocalypse,
• 10:21
  Speaker 4: Dawn was you're in it. You're in the apocalypse. And
• 10:25
  Speaker 4: it was, I remember the marketing campaign behind that was phenomenal,
• 10:31
  Speaker 4: along with the marketing campaign for the Batman. I remember
• 10:33
  Speaker 4: when the first trailer was released, like there are people who,
• 10:37
  Speaker 4: like I remember seeing a meme where it was like
• 10:39
  Speaker 4: a stick figure tucking in like a picture of the
• 10:42
  Speaker 4: Batman trailer into bed. It's like, good night, the Batman trailer.
• 10:46
  Speaker 4: I'll see you again tomorrow morning. Because people were just
• 10:50
  Speaker 4: watching it over and over again. And I think it
• 10:52
  Speaker 4: was supposed to come out, what was it, 2020? But
• 10:54
  Speaker 4: then the world shut down?
• 10:55
  Speaker 3: I think it was 2021.
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: But things still hadn't reliably reopened by that point.
• 11:02
  Speaker 3: And then it.
• 11:03
  Speaker 4: Was pushed to 2022. And now we're maybe going to
• 11:06
  Speaker 4: get part two in 2028?
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: They've had supposed....
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: Actual behind-the-scenes footage of the Batmobile being driven on set.
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: And I'm like, okay, that's an interesting sign of life.
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: I'm not taking it as an assurance here.
• 11:21
  Speaker 3: It's been long enough now.
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: I mean, Robert Pattinson will be Batman dealing with, you know,
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: somebody stealing his AARP checks by.
• 11:29
  Speaker 3: The time the next one comes out. So, you know.
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: I mean, in between, we did get the Penguin show.
• 11:34
  Speaker 3: Which was phenomenal.
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: Mind-blowing.
• 11:38
  Speaker 3: That was.
• 11:41
  Speaker 4: The best thing to come out of the Matt Reeves universe,
• 11:43
  Speaker 4: in my opinion.
• 11:44
  Speaker 3: So far.
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: Well, and heartbreaking because, you know, the Batman, regardless of
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: where the three of us land, Darren, I think it
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: would be fair to say that, like, if you saw this...
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: and Warner Brothers was like, this is what your DC
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: movie universe is going to be. The DCU is going
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: to be this. Your reaction would be positive, neutral, negative,
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: or you'd be like, yeah.
• 12:07
  Speaker 3: I'm signed up. This is the direction I want the
• 12:09
  Speaker 3: DC universe to go.
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: I'm going to say yes with a caveat. Like, if
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: it has to go in this direction, I like it,
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: but I don't personally, I don't want a universe that's
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: dictated by one movies style. I don't like, I don't
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: want Superman look like this.
• 12:28
  Speaker 3: It'd be terrible.
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: I don't want Superman to look like this. Now I
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: know that's not what you're saying, like color palette and
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: all of that, but like, I'm okay with the interconnectivity,
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: but yeah, it, so if, if I have to say
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: that this is the kickoff to the new vibe, yes, absolutely.
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: really scary villains you know really well done batman but
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: give me superman in superman's world i'd rather.
• 12:52
  Speaker 4: That'd be funny like if it did exist in that
• 12:55
  Speaker 4: interconnectivity way and then like every time like superman goes
• 12:59
  Speaker 4: to gotham he's like why is nirvana playing what is
• 13:02
  Speaker 4: going on and then he goes.
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: Across the bay from metropolis.
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: And metropolis everything is awesome no uh no actually to
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: keep it cool To keep it in the same time period,
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: it would be Hanson.
• 13:14
  Speaker 3: It would be Mbop would be playing constantly in Metropolis. Yeah.
• 13:20
  Speaker 3: That would be... Oh, my gosh.
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: We're writing that thing. So, basically, you're saying, Darren, that, yeah,
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: you could do this. You could see this as being like, okay,
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: this is the kickoff to the universe. Would you have
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: considered it a stronger kickoff to a rebooted, quote-unquote, DC
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: universe compared to the Snyder direction for the universe?
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: Like.
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: would you have like, yeah, take yourself back to man
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: of steel and then take yourself to this. You come
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: out of both of them. And the clear message is
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: this is the direction we're going folks. Is this a
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: better direction between the two?
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: I'm not going to say better. I am going to
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: say it is, it is fresh and new. Like it
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: is different enough. Like the difference between Batman begins in
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: the dark night trilogy to Snyder is the same difference
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: as Snyder to this. Like it is, a fresh take,
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: a new vibe. And I think we were all here
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: for it, which is why it made $ 770 million.
• 14:17
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it didn't snoot, despite being a three-hour serious film.
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: Oh, it is so long.
• 14:22
  Speaker 3: It is very, very long.
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: And in fact, Tristan, that brings me to the first
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: question I actually really want to throw to you. You're
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: a big fan of long movies that never cut anything
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: extraneous out. So how much did you love the three
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: hours of The Batman?
• 14:38
  Speaker 4: This movie had no business being this long. There are
• 14:41
  Speaker 4: a lot of things that I appreciate about this movie.
• 14:44
  Speaker 4: But this movie, oh my gosh, it cannot justify its runtime.
• 14:49
  Speaker 4: It just can't. And if we're going to jump right
• 14:52
  Speaker 4: into it, in my opinion, this movie falls apart halfway through.
• 14:57
  Speaker 4: And unfortunately, halfway through is at the one hour and
• 15:01
  Speaker 4: 20 minute mark.
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: I don't agree that it falls apart. I understand what
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: you're saying. Maybe falls apart is too extreme.
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: You're, you're right.
• 15:08
  Speaker 3: That's strong.
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: Are you meaning it stalls out or like, yeah, extrapolate on,
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: on that. You're, you're right.
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 15:14
  Speaker 4: I'm, I'm, I'm being, I'm being too extreme with that language. Um,
• 15:19
  Speaker 4: after the car chase and they interrogate the penguin, I
• 15:23
  Speaker 4: feel like we're spinning our wheels far too much.
• 15:26
  Speaker 3: Now there are.
• 15:27
  Speaker 4: Great things that happen in the, in the latter half
• 15:30
  Speaker 4: of the movie, like the, uh, um, the Riddler, um,
• 15:35
  Speaker 4: prison scene with bats is pretty good because Paul Dano
• 15:38
  Speaker 4: is amazing. Uh, the, the final scene is like when,
• 15:42
  Speaker 4: like the, the visual language of what should have been
• 15:46
  Speaker 4: the final scene where he's leading the people out of the,
• 15:50
  Speaker 4: out of darkness into the light with his flare.
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: Beautiful. That's pretty great.
• 15:54
  Speaker 4: I do have my issues with what preceded that. Uh,
• 15:57
  Speaker 4: but I think the visual language of that, like I said,
• 15:59
  Speaker 4: what should have been the final shot, is pretty cool.
• 16:03
  Speaker 4: But it's like a checkerboard. It's like good, bad, good, bad, good, bad, good, bad.
• 16:08
  Speaker 4: But then when we have the first 90 minutes, it's
• 16:11
  Speaker 4: mainly good. Now, there's still some things that I have
• 16:15
  Speaker 4: issues with, but that's a solid 90 minutes at the beginning,
• 16:19
  Speaker 4: but then it's just a crapshoot after that.
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: See, the thing is, I'm not as harsh as you
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: are about the back half of the movie, the post-car
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: chase part.
• 16:29
  Speaker 3: I think that there are definitely.
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: This is one of those ones where I see so
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: many instances where there are little changes that could have
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: been made to bring it down to two and a
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: half hours. And the thing is, people are like, well,
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: what's the difference between two and a half and three hours?
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: It's like screen time, 30 minutes is a lifetime. And
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: if you can find a way to your two and
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: a half hours, you're way better off. And the thing is,
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: you can lop about 15 minutes-ish right off if you
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: end where I think they should end, which is where
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: they're on the top of Gotham Square Garden. And the
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: woman is holding on to him and doesn't want to
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: let him go. And then you hear his voiceover where
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: he says, basically, I don't remember the exact words, but
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: he's basically like, it's not enough to be vengeance. I
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: have to be something else. Like it's that whole Batman
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: begins sort of thing. We've gotten to the point where
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: he's like, I gotta be, I gotta be a hero.
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: And he looks up and there's that sunset and it's beautiful.
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: And I'm like, boom, that's where your movie should have ended.
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: You say 15 minutes right there. And then you could
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: save another 15 minutes, just making little micro chops here
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: and there and make certain things. speed up a little bit.
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: Like he doesn't need to take, and I mean, they're
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: tiny little things. Like when you first see him fight
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: the Joker gang, the kids that are painted up like
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: the Joker in the subway station, maybe you could have
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: taken a quarter as long to come out of the shadows.
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: We all know what's coming. I understand the build. This
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: is the slowest moving Batman I've ever seen.
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: The armor's very heavy.
• 17:52
  Speaker 4: Like even when he like reaches into the cage where
• 17:56
  Speaker 4: the bat is hanging and he's grabbing the letter, It's
• 17:59
  Speaker 4: like it's running at third speed.
• 18:02
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 18:03
  Speaker 4: Even the way he's moving his hand, you're just like.
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: Good lord. Are you on Valium? What's going on?
• 18:11
  Speaker 3: But the thing is, he doesn't need to even move faster.
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: You can just cut. We will do the work in
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: our brains. We've seen enough movies in our lifetime. We'll
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: do the work in our brains to be like, oh,
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: he slowly reached in and grabbed it. but I can
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: show him reaching in slowly and then cut to him
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: pulling it out. And my brain after years of movie
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: watching goes, okay, well, yeah, I didn't need to see
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: the whole minute there.
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: Or you even cut to it's in his hands. You're
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: now looking over the shoulder and he's opening it.
• 18:36
  Speaker 3: Like, right.
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: Like you said, the key thing is our minds fill
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: in the blanks. We do not need to see every
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: well in real time. It took about five seconds for
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: him to pull that out and open it. I don't
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: need to see five seconds to know what happened.
• 18:51
  Speaker 3: Right. Exactly.
• 18:53
  Speaker 4: So Darren, do you, do you very forced Joker cameo?
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: I hated it so much. The forced Joker cameo is
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: such a violation.
• 19:02
  Speaker 3: I was, you know what?
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: I was so excited that we got all the way
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: to that point in the movie. And I, I remember
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: being in the theater and sitting there and saying, Oh
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: my gosh, we, this is different. There isn't even a
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: single Joker.
• 19:14
  Speaker 3: Oh, there it is.
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: I remember feeling crestfallen in the moment and being like,
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: you couldn't just go. We know he exists. We saw
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: the Joker gang. We don't have to do it. But
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: there's a whole scene that they cut out where he
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: talked with the Joker.
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 19:32
  Speaker 4: And not only was it so forced, it looks like
• 19:35
  Speaker 4: the worst interpretation of the Joker that you could conceive
• 19:40
  Speaker 4: of And it's just, it's like he took, he looked
• 19:43
  Speaker 4: at Heath Ledger's Joker and took all the parts that
• 19:47
  Speaker 4: were superficial and we're just like that's what i'm gonna
• 19:50
  Speaker 4: expand on like heath ledger's joker's scars were not what
• 19:55
  Speaker 4: made him great was not what made him great right
• 19:58
  Speaker 4: and so you don't need to have a completely disfigured
• 20:02
  Speaker 4: face and then just have them slow talking it's just
• 20:06
  Speaker 4: it's I can't get into it right now, but I
• 20:09
  Speaker 4: really hope that they retcon it. Like if they bring
• 20:11
  Speaker 4: in the Joker in the Matt Reeves universe, I really
• 20:14
  Speaker 4: hope they retcon that scene.
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: Well, I just love the fact that before that, seeing
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: the Joker gang is enough of a scintillating hint to me.
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, this isn't the very beginning. He's taken
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: the Joker out maybe? Like it gives me something to
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: work with, something to think about because they're very obviously
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: dressed in tribute to their hero sort of thing. which
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: I think even though this movie is three hours long,
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: they should have done more to call out that the
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: Riddler is doing what the Joker's gang is like. Like
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: it's an interesting sort of thing where there are movements
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: that coalesce around the crazies of Gotham city. And that's,
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: that's a thread that could have been sewn together a
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: little more completely.
• 20:58
  Speaker 3: As it were.
• 20:58
  Speaker 4: Darren, what did you think of this interpretation of the Riddler?
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: Amazing. Like it, It was terrifying. Legitimately a villain. He's
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: a psychopath. He's completely insane, but insane with the smarts
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: to pull off his scheme. The way he is... Yeah,
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: he's giving the clues and whatnot, but the way he
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: gains followers and uses them, the way he hides... The
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: way he has... really integrated Batman into his plan. Like
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: not accounted for him as in, I need to stop Batman.
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: I'm just going to make him part of the chain
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: of events. Like I want him to catch me. I
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: want him to do this. And leading to the crescendo
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: of that, that dialogue in the cage where you think
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: he knows who Batman is. So the payoff in that
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: scene is so well-written. Because you, as the audience, you're like,
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: you don't know what to expect. I totally bought that
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: he could know. And that sinking feeling that Batman is having,
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: you are having it right along with him until the
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: proper reveal. So, yeah, I mean, if anything, I think
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: the Riddler is the strongest part of the entire movie. Like,
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: not that Batman isn't, and Batman is a great interpretation,
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: but we've seen other interpretations of Batman. We've seen... real
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: batman and gritty batman and using real things and not
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: like futuristic hypercars that don't exist and you know but
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: i have never seen a a batman villain and i
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: and i know we have heath ledger's you know joker
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: but this this did the same thing for the riddler
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: that heath ledger's joker did for the joker it created
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: it and reinvented it in a truly terrifying way.
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah i think that um This is the first time
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: on screen that the Riddler has been genuinely interesting. And
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: that's like sort of the highest praise I can give.
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: The Riddler has always been, when he's appeared on screen,
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: whether it's Frank Gorshin or Jim Carrey, it's always been like,
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: this is kind of a silly bit, right guys? There's
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: always sort of a wink toward the audience of how
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: silly the idea of the Riddler is. And this is
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: the first time that really casts him in that sort of,
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: you know, terrifying light scene. And I think that they
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: could have been maybe a little more subtle with the
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: fact that he's very obviously based on John Doe from Seven.
• 23:37
  Speaker 3: But like, you know, for what it is.
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: The Saw vibes in this movie were off the charts. Like,
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: Matt Reeves really liked Seven.
• 23:46
  Speaker 3: Didn't we all?
• 23:48
  Speaker 4: It really came across in the Batman. And John, I
• 23:52
  Speaker 4: was joking about this with you earlier, but it was
• 23:54
  Speaker 4: clear he really liked Seven with the aesthetic and with
• 23:57
  Speaker 4: John Doe. and really liked Return of the King with
• 24:00
  Speaker 4: the constant false endings.
• 24:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's true. That's true.
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: But Paul Dano is terrific in this.
• 24:10
  Speaker 4: I love Paul Dano. I love this character. I love
• 24:14
  Speaker 4: this villain. I think it's a great villain. I think
• 24:16
  Speaker 4: it's a terrible Riddler.
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: Wow, that caught me by surprise. What makes him terrible
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: for you?
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: I'm curious. What do you feel then... is the necessary
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: ingredient of a Riddler that, that this didn't have. Flamboyance. Okay.
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: So you feel like that's a core. I do. Characterization
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: of the Riddler. So I think.
• 24:36
  Speaker 3: Hmm.
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: Go ahead. No, go ahead.
• 24:37
  Speaker 3: No, no.
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: I was going to say that's interesting because I get like,
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: we always get back to this sort of ship of
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: Theseus sort of thing of like, what can you strip
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: away from the character of Batman? You're actually presenting it
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: as what, do I strip away? What can I not
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: strip away from the Riddler? And for you, it's that,
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: and the flamboyance, I think you're talking about that is
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: he has sort of a childish glee and, you know, I.
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: Wouldn't say childish.
• 25:03
  Speaker 4: Yeah, no, I wouldn't, I wouldn't say childish glee.
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: I would definitely say showmanship.
• 25:06
  Speaker 4: I would definitely say, um, he has, you know, like
• 25:10
  Speaker 4: if you look at the comic book Riddler, he has
• 25:12
  Speaker 4: a grading intensity and an insecurity that, even though he
• 25:20
  Speaker 4: is incredibly intelligent, he thinks he's the most intelligent person
• 25:24
  Speaker 4: and he's constantly trying to show that he's smarter than Batman,
• 25:28
  Speaker 4: but Batman keeps putting him in his place. And, you know, he's,
• 25:32
  Speaker 4: he keeps coming up with excuses and it's just this,
• 25:35
  Speaker 4: it's this over the top showmanship that the Riddler has
• 25:41
  Speaker 4: that I think is very key to the character. It's
• 25:43
  Speaker 4: not just sending Batman riddles in the mail. that's not
• 25:47
  Speaker 4: the only thing that makes the Riddler the Riddler. And
• 25:50
  Speaker 4: I think Matt Reeves stripped the Riddler of everything but that.
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: So two core questions then. In terms of flamboyance, in
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: terms of like stage persona, on a scale of Glenn
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: Danzig to Liberace, where should the Riddler fall on that scale? Like,
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: are we going full Rhinestones, Elvis, Las Vegas State Show flamboyance?
• 26:11
  Speaker 3: Or are we going, you know, brooding.
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: dark, really talking low and really angsty about the world
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: type of thing.
• 26:18
  Speaker 4: It's not just the outfit. It's not just what he
• 26:21
  Speaker 4: looks like. It's how he acts.
• 26:23
  Speaker 3: Oh, I know. I'm talking about stage personality.
• 26:26
  Speaker 4: So you'd say probably 60% towards Liberace.
• 26:29
  Speaker 3: Okay, 60% towards... That's fair enough. That's fair enough. I think.
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: Do you think that part of your issue might stem
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: from the fact that if you really.
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: Watch this with a certain, you know, you approach it
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: from a certain angle.
• 26:44
  Speaker 3: The Riddler wins. Batman may survive, but the hero doesn't
• 26:48
  Speaker 3: win this movie. He doesn't win. He does.
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: Does the Riddler win in this movie? And I mean,
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: he kind of gets foiled in the 11th hour of
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: his plan, but really he's accomplished a lot of what
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: he went out to do.
• 27:04
  Speaker 4: But he wanted to kill the new mayor and kill Batman.
• 27:07
  Speaker 4: And I think those were the two big things that
• 27:08
  Speaker 4: he wanted to do that didn't happen. No, he flooded
• 27:11
  Speaker 4: the city. That's pretty big.
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: I agree that those checkboxes did not get checked, but
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: I feel like it is more of a win in
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: the grander scheme because I feel like, in a way,
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: he also wanted Falcone dead. He wanted Gotham to change
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: and how it approached certain people. And that happened, right? So,
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's definitely not a clean defeat in that regard. Okay, okay.
• 27:45
  Speaker 4: Since you brought up Falcone, did they say Falcone in
• 27:48
  Speaker 4: this movie or Falcone?
• 27:50
  Speaker 3: Falcone. Carmine Falcone.
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: I don't like that. I like Falcone better.
• 27:54
  Speaker 4: I felt that there was way too much going on
• 27:57
  Speaker 4: in this movie, and that would have been a really
• 27:59
  Speaker 4: easy way to cut down on your run time. I
• 28:02
  Speaker 4: did not give a single flying fig about the Thomas
• 28:07
  Speaker 4: Wayne and Martha Wayne... trash talk that was completely unneeded.
• 28:12
  Speaker 4: Falcone was a little... It was on the verge of
• 28:16
  Speaker 4: being useless. And also, I felt like this was probably
• 28:21
  Speaker 4: the weakest relationship with Alfred that we've seen on screen.
• 28:24
  Speaker 3: They didn't... It was disorienting. I agree with you.
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: It was disorienting because Alfred and Bruce being estranged from
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: each other, in a large sense, was hard to adjust to.
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: In the context of the film itself, I can't really
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: knock it. It makes sense in the context of the film.
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: In the context of being a Batman fan, seeing him
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: at odds with Alfred like that is disconcerting.
• 28:46
  Speaker 3: It's a bit much to ask.
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: But I think that in terms of Falcone, I think
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: that they managed to tie him in. I think there's
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: some stuff with Catwoman that could have been trimmed.
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 29:01
  Speaker 3: That was a bit too much.
• 29:02
  Speaker 4: That's linked to Falcone that I feel like could have
• 29:05
  Speaker 4: been cut down.
• 29:06
  Speaker 3: It's a bit much.
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: I wonder, and Darren, I'll ask you this one, like
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: in terms of the Thomas and Martha Wayne were actually
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: sort of like, you know, they, they messed with the
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: wrong guy. They weren't as clean as they wish they
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: had been. Do you see echoes of, or not echoes,
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: but like, do you see a direction pointed to James
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: Gunn for what happened with the Superman movie later where
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: he finds out his parents were, you know, kind of
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: dicks actually.
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: I'd already forgotten about that. Sorry. No, no, no. It's,
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: it's just not what I usually think about when i'm
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: thinking about superman yeah he he did that uh it
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: for me it's not even as much about the the
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: taintingness of the way name i'm fine with that i
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: i think it does add a little bit of complexity
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: and and there are they're definitely going for this isn't
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: a clean cut you did deputized citizen of the police
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: kind of batman but i there's like three i know
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: we can have multiple characters that are in our movies
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: but there's like three movies in this movie like there's
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: a batman movie there's a catwoman falcone movie and there's
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: the riddler movie and it's too much Like I would
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: rather we don't do any Batman origin past stuff where we,
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: we jump from the get go. I love it. This
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: movie just kicks off and, and all the Falcone stuff
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: we get is just the Catwoman stuff. I would have
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: loved that if it was just Riddler and Catwoman, or
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: maybe on the reverse. And again, I'm, I'm just throwing
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: things out there, but like maybe it's, you have the
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: Falcone be more of the Batman thing. And then you really,
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: really diminish the Catwoman, but the, the balance of the
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: scales was, I mean, that's why it's three hours, guys.
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: It's like three whole plots crammed into this movie.
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: Yet somehow with all of that, that overstuffing, there are
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: two people I want to call out for their performances as,
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: I mean, we always talked about Dano, but I've got
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: to call out Jeffrey Wright as Gordon was inspired casting. Jeez.
• 31:15
  Speaker 3: Absolutely inspired casting.
• 31:16
  Speaker 4: Just, I can't, I cannot speak any higher than his performance.
• 31:22
  Speaker 4: That was some of the best stuff in the movie.
• 31:25
  Speaker 4: I love how much Batman interacted with the police in this.
• 31:29
  Speaker 4: Because from the trailer, you saw that this was going
• 31:32
  Speaker 4: to be different. Him walking through the crime scene while
• 31:35
  Speaker 4: the police are around him. You're just like, cool, this
• 31:38
  Speaker 4: is different. And then just Jeffrey Wright's performance. I mean,
• 31:41
  Speaker 4: I haven't seen a bad performance from Jeffrey Wright. And this,
• 31:45
  Speaker 4: he's got to be as big of a Gary Oldman
• 31:47
  Speaker 4: fan as I am.
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: I don't know, man.
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: This is a different Gordon, but this is a completely
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: legitimate Gordon. Like, Jeffrey Wright is one of the finest
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: actors working out there today.
• 32:00
  Speaker 3: Period. Full stop.
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: End of sentence.
• 32:02
  Speaker 3: I love the guy.
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: Anytime I see his name in the credits, I'm like, cool.
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: I know I'm going to at least get a great
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: Jeffrey Wright performance because I've never seen him deliver anything
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: less than terrific. Now, I haven't seen everything he's done, obviously,
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: but anyway. But Jeffrey Wright as Gordon is terrific.
• 32:18
  Speaker 3: But, I mean.
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: Darren, you mentioned The Penguin Show. You kicked that that off.
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: What an absolute scene sealer Colin Farrell is in every.
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: Shot he is in. You are like I was, which
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: is funny because like, yeah, he's in this movie, but
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: he's in just enough of this movie. Like this is
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: not and The Penguin Movie because dear Lord, there would
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: have been. We don't have enough space on the poster
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: guys to put all these characters up.
• 32:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: But no, it was just enough and it, and it
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: wet our appetite enough that HBO is like, here's a series.
• 32:52
  Speaker 3: And that was perfect.
• 32:53
  Speaker 4: The penguin will appear in Pinscher's doomsday.
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: But, but think, but think about it, right? What I
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: think is really interesting. Yes, this is a three hour movie. Yes,
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: it's overstuffed. I don't think, I think it's a little overstuffed.
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: It's not, it's not bursting at the seams overstuffed. It's just,
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: it's a little much, but, for all of the complaints
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: that people have had through time of quote-unquote too many villains,
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: we have Penguin, Catwoman, Riddler, and unfortunately Joker in this movie.
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: We have, let's set Joker aside, we have three villains,
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: three classic villains in this movie, and then we have Falcone,
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: who is sort of like, you know, for the fans
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: who know the series sort of thing. Like, how crazy
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: is it that we get so much many Batman villains
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: in this one film.
• 33:41
  Speaker 4: But on top of that, and something I have to
• 33:43
  Speaker 4: give credit to Reeves, is that Batman in the suit
• 33:48
  Speaker 4: has more screen time in one film than any other
• 33:51
  Speaker 4: Batman film.
• 33:52
  Speaker 3: Oh, yes.
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: And this, I really noticed that in this viewing. absolutely
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: i was like wow there's so little bruce wayne going
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: on i'm like right the title's the batman thanks for
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: remembering why i showed up to this movie guys.
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: When gotham's like oh we haven't seen bruce wayne in
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: a while and i'm like neither have.
• 34:09
  Speaker 4: We which is good right bruce why are you so
• 34:14
  Speaker 4: pale why do you have this tan line around your mouth.
• 34:18
  Speaker 3: It's so odd That's funny.
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: Batman just narrowly avoided an explosion. You have all these
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: scratches from your nose down. What exactly happened?
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: I will say, though, about the so many villains. I
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: do feel the mix... I mean, I'm going back against
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: what I said, but the mix actually worked because you
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: had the uber villain, the Riddler. That is the key
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: villain of this movie. But then Falcone is like the
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: mob villain, which is a very different kind of villain.
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: Catwoman is almost the femme fatale foil that leads into
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: the other plot. And we're not talking about Joker. So
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: all that to say, and then the Penguin also is,
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: I liked the interwovenness of the characters. So the fact
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: that Falcone was connected to the Penguin and had part
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: of the story with Catwoman, that was very well done.
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: I mean, I'm looking at you, Poison Ivy and Mr.
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: Freeze teaming up for why Bane's there for a reason
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: like that is no no that did it poorly this
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: did it.
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: Well but I gotta ask you a question because with
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: Catwoman did you get any chemistry at all between Pattinson
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: and Kravitz did you did you believe that this was
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: a Batman who was a falling for this Catwoman?
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: It's interesting you say that because in a way, I
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: would say I see Batwoman falling in love with Catwoman.
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: I don't see Bruce Wayne falling in love with Selina Kyle. Like,
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: in what we were presented, I mean, it's also hard
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: because it's so long ago. It's the very beginning of
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: the movie, John. And there's like three hours more of movie.
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: I can barely remember that opening scene.
• 36:05
  Speaker 3: Fair point.
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: What?
• 36:07
  Speaker 4: What kills it, though, is that when you have Bruce
• 36:09
  Speaker 4: Wayne and Selina Kyle of the comics, and you have
• 36:13
  Speaker 4: Michael Keaton and Michelle Pfeiffer, and their chemistry is just
• 36:17
  Speaker 4: off the charts. It's just so electric. And then you
• 36:21
  Speaker 4: have Pattinson's.
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: The animated series had chemistry.
• 36:25
  Speaker 4: Yeah, even the animated series. This is lower tier.
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: Of the Bat-Cat.
• 36:34
  Speaker 4: Or the cat and bat, whatever people call it. This
• 36:36
  Speaker 4: is lower rung in terms of chemistry. And I think
• 36:39
  Speaker 4: it really shows. I think that they're both acted well.
• 36:45
  Speaker 4: And I think there's nothing inherently wrong with their scenes together.
• 36:48
  Speaker 4: But their on-screen chemistry is quite low. And I think it's...
• 36:53
  Speaker 4: I don't know if it's them or if it's the writing.
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: I'm not quite sure.
• 36:58
  Speaker 4: But Pattinson also screams... aggressive virgin vibes.
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: I think that um i will i will lay this
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: at reeves's feet in that he doesn't give kravitz and
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: pattinson the permission to be electric to borrow your term
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: it's always very tamped down i and i get what
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: you're saying where you know this batman is um aggressively
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: non-sexual when he's around Catwoman. But the movie is clearly
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: trying to say that there is attraction between them. But
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: Reeves never pops the safeties off for us to see
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: Batman lose a little control around her. I never get
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: the sense that I get with what happens with Bale
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: and Hathaway and Keaton and Pfeiffer. To your point, there's
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: a couple of moments between those actors on screen that
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: are like, oh, wow, I believe that this could actually
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: be a thing between them. I think Reeves doesn't unlock
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: them properly in their scenes together.
• 38:07
  Speaker 3: It's all there. The pieces are there. They're just not
• 38:10
  Speaker 3: put together right. Darren, do you agree?
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: Well, yeah, it Again, it kind of suffers from this
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: soup mix of characters. And it's trying to do a lot.
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: And it's like, whoa, we're just going to let the
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: runtime roll and we can put it all in. And
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: so we don't get, you know, I'm still trying to
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: figure out who Batman is based on the flashbacks and
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: the connection to Falcone and all of that, that I
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: don't have time to focus on this relationship with Catwoman.
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: And it's so... paper thin there.
• 38:41
  Speaker 4: I want to ask, I'm glad that you brought that up.
• 38:43
  Speaker 4: I want to ask you guys this question. Does this
• 38:46
  Speaker 4: Batman justify his existence?
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: What do you, what do you mean? Like, does he
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: justify his existence in this universe? Yes.
• 38:54
  Speaker 4: Does there need to be a Batman in this universe?
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: Because Bruce Wayne is not doing anything at all.
• 39:02
  Speaker 3: I get what you're saying.
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: Is there anything that Batman is handling here that properly
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: trained and deputized members of, you know, First responder and
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: actual detective.
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: Oh, that's that is a very hard and fair question.
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: That was a big hurdle for me. I would say
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: that the the issue is that this Batman is dealing
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: with very small things. through the movie and his journey
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: eventually points him toward handling the larger stuff you know
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: so that you have that ending there's an arc there
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: but I think what's difficult to to contextualize is Batman
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: especially on film traditionally is if he's not been battling
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: like supernatural-esque villains he's been trying to smash up the
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: mob he's been trying to undo the structure of the
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: city or the corruption in place and those sorts of
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: things this batman in his year two is more focused
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: on beating the snot out of people in the subway
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: station to save a guy and following breadcrumbs but not
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: I think that the difficulty is he doesn't get that
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: big win, which, Darren, I think you were talking about earlier,
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: is Batman doesn't get a big victory lap at the end,
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: where it's like he stopped the city from flooding. He
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: stopped the Riddler before the thing could happen. We don't
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: get that big payoff at the end, so all of
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: his victories seem very small. And I think we're pointed
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: toward him becoming a bigger hero... but it's not happening
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: in this movie. And I would offer that I think
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: that might be what you're reacting to because once you
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: say it, I'm like, I think that might be part
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: of what I'm reacting to as well.
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: I mean, I try to think of the animated series.
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: We have dozens and dozens of episodes and not every
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: one is a saving the city. You have, oh, someone's
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: driving around small toy cars and they're blowing up banks.
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: And that's a whole episode and a whole thing where
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: he has to deduce and figure out and all that stuff.
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: So in that vein, I can give it a little
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: slack because this is, by being a more grounded, real Batman, they're,
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: compared to like Batman Begins, where they're going for the realistic,
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: but he's still a superhero. He's got crazy tech and
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: things that just do not exist. This is the closest
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: to an actual physical person that we've ever had Batman,
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: where he is not a superhero. He is just a
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: rich person of the night. And it works. But I
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: think you're absolutely right, John. This is year two. This
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: is him still establishing himself. And he doesn't get that
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: big win at the end.
• 41:55
  Speaker 4: I think my problem with it, and I'm not saying
• 41:58
  Speaker 4: that this is a wrong interpretation. I'm saying my issue
• 42:01
  Speaker 4: with it, is that if you look at previous incarnations
• 42:05
  Speaker 4: of Batman, like you look at Batman Begins, you look
• 42:10
  Speaker 4: at Mask of the Phantasm, we all see their trials
• 42:14
  Speaker 4: trying to become Batman. We see them fall. We see
• 42:17
  Speaker 4: them fail. We see them screw up and try to
• 42:20
  Speaker 4: figure out who they are. But once they don the cowl,
• 42:25
  Speaker 4: they're Batman. A switch has been flipped. They've entered that era.
• 42:32
  Speaker 4: And with Batman 89, it's kind of like the Batman
• 42:38
  Speaker 4: where we don't see that origin story. We don't see
• 42:40
  Speaker 4: him training. We don't see him trying to develop who
• 42:43
  Speaker 4: he is or how he's going to be. He just
• 42:46
  Speaker 4: is Batman. But with Matt Reeves' Batman, it's this wishy-washy
• 42:50
  Speaker 4: middle ground. He has the cowl. He's established as Batman.
• 42:54
  Speaker 4: People are afraid of him. The community knows about him.
• 42:57
  Speaker 4: He's working with the cops. But yet he's still not Batman.
• 43:03
  Speaker 4: And I struggle with that. He doesn't move like Batman.
• 43:06
  Speaker 4: He doesn't talk like Batman. He doesn't act like Batman.
• 43:10
  Speaker 4: And so why do a year two story if you're
• 43:14
  Speaker 4: going to end like Casino Royale, where he has that
• 43:17
  Speaker 4: journey and he realizes, oh, this is what I have
• 43:20
  Speaker 4: to be. This is what I have to do in
• 43:22
  Speaker 4: order to achieve my goals. That's where I kind of struggle,
• 43:25
  Speaker 4: is that it's a year two story, but it doesn't
• 43:27
  Speaker 4: feel like a year two story. It feels like the
• 43:30
  Speaker 4: the ending of a year one story. Year 1.5.
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah. No, I can see that. And it, it's hard.
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: Cause I mean, you say wishy-washy and I get that vibe,
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: but it's, I would. And he's also indestructible. Oh gosh. Yeah.
• 43:46
  Speaker 4: That's really pisses me off. He's completely indestructible and he's basically.
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: I don't, I, that, that, that, that's so tough because
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: the thing is he goes through, I mean like, he's
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: virtually indestructible in Bale's Batman too. Like he's, you know, it's,
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: it's kind of, it's kind of crazy.
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: We're going to talk about Bane again. No, I'm, I'm, no, I'm, I'm,
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: I'm throwing a flag on that. Okay.
• 44:12
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 44:13
  Speaker 4: With, with Bale, we see him get injured. We see
• 44:16
  Speaker 4: him get stabbed. We even have that nice, you know, little, um,
• 44:20
  Speaker 4: moment with Lucius when he gets his new suit, he says,
• 44:22
  Speaker 4: you're going to be more, you know, susceptible to gunfire.
• 44:26
  Speaker 4: And so the beauty of Bale's Batman is that he
• 44:30
  Speaker 4: tries not to get shot. He actually moves around.
• 44:34
  Speaker 3: I see what you're saying.
• 44:35
  Speaker 2: He doesn't just take the full-on shotgun blast and say, oh, wow,
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: I need an adrenaline shot to get through this.
• 44:42
  Speaker 3: I get what you're saying.
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: I mean, the adrenaline shot was really cool. Yeah, it
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: was very cool. It was an interesting thing.
• 44:47
  Speaker 4: But I think one of the greatest Batman fight scenes.
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: Was the way- Sorry, Bat-drenaline.
• 44:54
  Speaker 3: Bat-drenaline. Yes, Bat-drenaline.
• 44:56
  Speaker 4: One of the greatest Batman fight scenes was the warehouse
• 44:59
  Speaker 4: scene in Batman v Superman. And I love how he
• 45:02
  Speaker 4: took all the guns out, but he still got shot
• 45:04
  Speaker 4: a couple of times. But he kept trying to pull
• 45:07
  Speaker 4: a Wonder Woman and block the shots with his cape
• 45:09
  Speaker 4: or with his arms. And there was one time when
• 45:11
  Speaker 4: they crossed the line and he gets shot in the
• 45:13
  Speaker 4: back of the head. But that was a big moment.
• 45:15
  Speaker 4: I hated that. If they took that out, it would
• 45:17
  Speaker 4: have been perfect. With Matt Reeves' Batman, it doesn't matter.
• 45:20
  Speaker 4: He can fall from 50 flights and then get slammed
• 45:25
  Speaker 4: on the L and then drop in a bus and
• 45:26
  Speaker 4: then just walk away. He can get shot multiple times
• 45:30
  Speaker 4: from every single angle by high-powered rifles and a shotgun
• 45:34
  Speaker 4: to the stomach.
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: Right next to a bomb. Really close to that bomb.
• 45:38
  Speaker 3: The shotgun was to the chest. I'll just point that out.
• 45:40
  Speaker 3: Not the stomach.
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: It's insane.
• 45:44
  Speaker 4: I mean, if you're going to have grounded realism, Darren,
• 45:47
  Speaker 4: like you talked about, And that's another thing.
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: That's another thing.
• 45:51
  Speaker 3: You saw bruises when he put a shirt on one time.
• 45:55
  Speaker 4: But that's another thing that really bothers me is that
• 45:57
  Speaker 4: he's not acting like Batman. If this is year two,
• 46:00
  Speaker 4: he should learn not to get shot.
• 46:02
  Speaker 3: That is a fair point.
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: I get what you're going for with that, where it's
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: trying to, he's already established, but he's making year one mistakes.
• 46:13
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 46:14
  Speaker 3: Yes, thank you.
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: That's a very succinct way of putting it.
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: I think that's a script writing sort of thing. Let's
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: lay that at Reeves' feet too, is it seems like
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: this is a script that's written for a year one Batman,
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: but then he got a little too cute with it
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: and said, well, no, we don't want just the origin
• 46:30
  Speaker 2: story again. We want to be past the origin story.
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: But this is an origin story Batman who's given the
• 46:36
  Speaker 2: benefit of having survived his first year out in the wild.
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's an origin story of Batman set in a
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: world where Batman has been around. So the world is
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: acting like they know him, but we don't know him.
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: So it's our origin to him, which yeah, it doesn't
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: make sense. Yeah, no, that's a good, that's a fair point.
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: All I'm going to say is every time Selena Kyle
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: did a backflip, I saw the CG weird times. I
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: hated it. Hated every single time she was trying to
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: be Catwoman. And I'm like, you're just the frame. doesn't match.
• 47:13
  Speaker 4: That's why it was raining all the time, so that
• 47:15
  Speaker 4: they could hide their CGI a little bit better.
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: It's so bad. But you saw what I saw, right?
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: When she's doing a backflip or a kick, and it just,
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: the timing was not right.
• 47:25
  Speaker 4: And when she first put on her outfit and then
• 47:28
  Speaker 4: jumped a couple of stories down, you could really, really tell.
• 47:32
  Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, yes. Yes, yes, you could. That is true.
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: But what's also true is that this is a film
• 47:40
  Speaker 2: where we haven't even talked about the score and i
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: think that is uh probably statement enough about the score
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: uh for the batman i think it's fine but i
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: don't think it's like memorable necessarily.
• 47:55
  Speaker 4: They have a good theme and that's it.
• 47:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah darren anything to add about the.
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: Score yeah it's it's really hard to compare to anything
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: like batman begins like it was such a strong score
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: and Yeah, I agree. We had a good theme, but
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: overall as a score, I wasn't rushing to the store
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: to buy it. I really wasn't.
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: Well, I think that The Batman is an interesting work,
• 48:22
  Speaker 2: and I think it's time for us to deliver our
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: final thoughts and ratings. So since Darren is the bigger
• 48:29
  Speaker 2: Batman fan between the two of you, Tristan, I will
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: give it to Darren first. Darren, what do you rate
• 48:37
  Speaker 2: 2022's the batman by matt reeves.
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: You know i must be a giant batman fan because
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: i'm seeing tons of fours in my list i'm like
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: man i'm breaking all these movies really well uh no
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: this was i mean we did kind of tear it
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: down and pick it apart at the end of this
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: discussion but uh i watched this with my my wife
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: she she repeatedly as we did this wing asked me
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: when are you watching the batman Because she wanted to
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: watch it with me, as we really enjoyed it the
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: first time we saw it. And I am still really
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: excited for the Batman 2 in 2035 when it comes out.
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: Whatever that is. But no. So I'm giving it a
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: lot of benefit of the doubt. Does it have issues? Yes.
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: Is it still totally watchable and enjoyable for the world
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: it envelops you in? Does the Riddler just give you
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: chills up the spine?
• 49:31
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: So I'm still giving this a solid four. I'm really
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: excited about the Batman 2. Dear Lord, may it come
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: out soon, please. but all that to say, yeah, this,
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: this is a great telling of the story. And I
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: think really underlines what we've seen through this entire wing
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: is the reinventing of Batman is one of the best
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: gifts of cinema is that it's not one thing for
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: all time. It can be something different. And I love that.
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: So for battle reigns made from the gun of his slain.
• 50:05
  Speaker 4: Father, Well put about the reinvention of Batman. And also,
• 50:11
  Speaker 4: was that ever confirmed about the gun thing?
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: No, never confirmed. I thought I'd seen it in a thing. Well,
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: it wasn't mentioned on screen, but I thought I'd seen
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: something say it.
• 50:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, no, but that's the thing. I come from
• 50:25
  Speaker 2: the George Lucas school. Unless it occurs on screen, it
• 50:28
  Speaker 2: is not confirmed, okay? It is changeable up until.
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: Not confirmed, but if it was true, it's cool.
• 50:35
  Speaker 2: Now, since I am the slightly lesser Batman fan to Darren,
• 50:40
  Speaker 2: but still a larger Batman fan than Tristan, I'll go next.
• 50:43
  Speaker 2: And I will go ahead and say this comes in
• 50:45
  Speaker 2: at a four as well for me. I gave it
• 50:48
  Speaker 2: a four and a half in the past. I gave
• 50:50
  Speaker 2: it a four this time because on this viewing, the
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: runtime issues really did manifest for me. and I'll tell
• 51:00
  Speaker 2: the funny story on the way out. First, I'll tell
• 51:02
  Speaker 2: two things. First, I love the fact that they have
• 51:05
  Speaker 2: an Aunt Harriet stand-in in this one because they introduce
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: a female counterpart to Alfred, and I'm like, that's got
• 51:13
  Speaker 2: to be like a deep-cut Matt Reeves winking at the audience. Hey,
• 51:17
  Speaker 2: remember Aunt Harriet. And also, if you look at the
• 51:21
  Speaker 2: back of the Batmobile muscle car, it looks like the
• 51:26
  Speaker 2: silhouette of the 1966 Batmobile. So I'm like, Reeves gives
• 51:31
  Speaker 2: a few little love marks there where I'm like, okay,
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: he's a legit fan. So yeah, that comes in at
• 51:37
  Speaker 2: a four for me. And I will never forgive fellow
• 51:40
  Speaker 2: hosts here on the Nerd Party Network on aggressive negotiations.
• 51:45
  Speaker 2: I had to pee so bad at the end of
• 51:47
  Speaker 2: this movie the first time I saw it.
• 51:49
  Speaker 3: Like it was hurting. Like I was in pain.
• 51:51
  Speaker 2: I was wondering if I was going to get a
• 51:52
  Speaker 2: urinary tract infection and I'm sitting there And I sent
• 51:55
  Speaker 2: a text message to Matt Rushing. And I say, hey, Matt,
• 51:59
  Speaker 2: do I need to stay through the credits here? Is
• 52:01
  Speaker 2: there like a stinger that I need to stick with?
• 52:03
  Speaker 2: And I get back this cryptic, oh, it's worth staying
• 52:06
  Speaker 2: to the end. And I got to the end. And
• 52:08
  Speaker 2: it was just like the cursor blinking and then like
• 52:10
  Speaker 2: the end with a question mark.
• 52:12
  Speaker 3: I was ready to kill him. And he knows that.
• 52:15
  Speaker 3: And he's going to listen to this.
• 52:16
  Speaker 2: He's going to know that he's living on borrowed time
• 52:19
  Speaker 2: because there will come a time where my patience will
• 52:21
  Speaker 2: have run out with that. And I will exact my
• 52:23
  Speaker 2: vengeance because good Lord, if you're going to have a stinger,
• 52:27
  Speaker 2: you're going to make me sit there for three hours.
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: For God's sake, make it worthwhile. Tristan, as the lesser
• 52:32
  Speaker 2: of the three Batman fans here, what do you rate
• 52:36
  Speaker 2: the Batman?
• 52:37
  Speaker 4: I wanted to give it a three, but I'm not
• 52:39
  Speaker 4: going to give it a three. I feel like there's
• 52:42
  Speaker 4: so much wrong with it, but the stuff that works
• 52:45
  Speaker 4: really works. I think Pattinson gives a great performance. Jeffrey
• 52:49
  Speaker 4: Wright is a stellar performer. performance and he he does
• 52:53
  Speaker 4: a lot of the heavy lifting in my opinion uh
• 52:56
  Speaker 4: as i've talked about there's a lot that i don't
• 52:58
  Speaker 4: like but i feel like the the bones are there
• 53:02
  Speaker 4: are are really great it just there's too much going
• 53:05
  Speaker 4: on and one thing that i do want to mention
• 53:09
  Speaker 4: that the car chase would not be anywhere near as
• 53:11
  Speaker 4: entertaining if it wasn't for colin farrell and i like
• 53:16
  Speaker 4: i would love to know how much of that was
• 53:18
  Speaker 4: improv and how much of that was like actually written
• 53:21
  Speaker 4: down And he's just like, this guy is crazy!
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 53:27
  Speaker 4: Everything like that, because he was absolutely a gem in
• 53:29
  Speaker 4: this movie. It's just, you know, I talked a lot
• 53:32
  Speaker 4: about what I don't like, but that doesn't mean that
• 53:35
  Speaker 4: there isn't a lot that is working in this. And
• 53:38
  Speaker 4: one thing that I do want to mention, and I
• 53:40
  Speaker 4: know I'm going to get emails about this, but The
• 53:42
  Speaker 4: Batman fans are just as bad as Snyder fans. It's
• 53:47
  Speaker 4: insane how frothing at the mouth they are and how
• 53:51
  Speaker 4: if you even suggest that there's even something remotely disappointing
• 53:55
  Speaker 4: about the Batman, they will just lose their minds and
• 53:59
  Speaker 4: try to, you know, just to try to find out
• 54:01
  Speaker 4: your address online so that they can come and kill
• 54:04
  Speaker 4: your dog.
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: It's insane.
• 54:07
  Speaker 4: And if Snyder bros are the jocks of the Batman fandom.
• 54:12
  Speaker 4: The Batman fans are the ones that live in their
• 54:15
  Speaker 4: mom's basement and write bad poetry.
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: And it's just, it's crazy.
• 54:19
  Speaker 4: Because for some reason, the Batman fans, the crazy ones,
• 54:24
  Speaker 4: and I'm not saying everyone, don't write me.
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: I don't care.
• 54:27
  Speaker 3: Write him. Write him, everybody.
• 54:29
  Speaker 4: Like, they have to tear down Nolan in order to
• 54:32
  Speaker 4: elevate their love of Reeves.
• 54:34
  Speaker 3: Unforgivable.
• 54:34
  Speaker 4: And I don't understand that. Like, like what you like.
• 54:37
  Speaker 4: Say the Batman's better than the Dark Knight. You're wrong,
• 54:40
  Speaker 4: but say it. but you don't have to say the
• 54:42
  Speaker 4: Dark Knight is trash or Nolan is trash in order
• 54:45
  Speaker 4: to elevate what you appreciate. And I think that that
• 54:48
  Speaker 4: could be part of what has soured me a little
• 54:50
  Speaker 4: bit is because I am a part of the Batman
• 54:54
  Speaker 4: community online and I just see this constantly and it
• 54:56
  Speaker 4: just makes me roll my eyes. But I also roll
• 54:58
  Speaker 4: my eyes at Snyder Bros too. But regardless, I'm giving
• 55:02
  Speaker 4: it a three and a half, I think a generous
• 55:04
  Speaker 4: three and a half.
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: But I'm still excited for the Batman part two.
• 55:07
  Speaker 3: When it comes out in.
• 55:08
  Speaker 4: 2035 when it comes out and we find out that
• 55:11
  Speaker 4: you know like you know batman you know gets a
• 55:14
  Speaker 4: colonoscopy you know like.
• 55:16
  Speaker 2: Just promise me when it comes out you visit my
• 55:18
  Speaker 2: grave and play it while i'm there because i might
• 55:21
  Speaker 2: be dead by the time it shows up so uh
• 55:24
  Speaker 2: my gosh it's the end of the wing of batman
• 55:27
  Speaker 2: we've made it folks and we will uh record an
• 55:31
  Speaker 2: episode when the batman part two uh comes out um
• 55:36
  Speaker 2: Or if we.
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: Get a DCU Batman before we get part two.
• 55:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah, they'll be right after a Condiment Man series. Sure.
• 55:44
  Speaker 2: So, but we're here with the Wing of Batman wrapping up. Darren,
• 55:49
  Speaker 2: we've known what we're going to do each next week
• 55:53
  Speaker 2: since who knows how long ago at this point.
• 55:57
  Speaker 3: What are we doing next?
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: That's right. Since I started keeping a schedule, we've known
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: what we're covering next week. We're going with Frank Capra,
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: beloved director of stage and screen. With 1934's It Happened
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: One Night next on House Lights.
• 56:13
  Speaker 2: Join the revolution.
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: Join the nerd party.