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Let's Talk with Carl Lee - The Evolution of Athlete Compensation: Direct Payments and Back Pay Settlements · WCHS Network Podcasts

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The views and opinions expressed on this program do not necessarily reflect the views and
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opinions of five ad WCHS it's employees or WVRC media. Yeah, you gotta
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work. You gotta work. Why sign is mine gotta show? Everybody is
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my sign? You gotta work? Right Son Another mile Saga, Dogs day
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Line, Don't talk, you Gotta work. Welcome to Let's Talk with Carl
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Lee, where sports, culture, and community intersect. Joined Carl and frequent
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co host Hollis Lewis as they tie into engaging conversations with guests from all walks
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of life. Let's Talk is probably presented by Attorney Frank Walker, Real Talk,
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Real Experience, Real Results, Frank Walker Law dot Com. Let the
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conversation begin on Let's Talk. Hello, ladies and gentlemen. Missus Curlee with
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Let's Talk and my co host Hollus Lewis, as we dive into different topics
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regarding in most cases, I'm going to say sports, but sometimes we'll step
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outside of those boundaries. Today's show, Hollis and I will be discussing the
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new and I'm assuming that it's a new thing, or we have to call
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it a new thing that colleges are actually going to be paying it's players.
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And the max I think is twenty million dollars is the max that you can
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pay them. And to me, I just think that that is a huge
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number, well beyond I think it being reasonable. I think when we when
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we look at this and when we start to think about it, the goal
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at this point would be get to college, not necessarily get to the NFL.
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You could go in and make twenty million dollars if you hit that max.
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Like I mean that, that's that's the end of it. So hopefully
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you will enjoy the conversation and the depth of it. And so I'm going
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to open it up a little bit here with with with Hollis and just your
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idea. When you first heard it, you first saw it, you first
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read it, what what were you thinking? I mean, well, I
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guess some people will argue that college is playing paying players is nothing new.
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Something that may be the case. Yeah, but you know, I think
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again, like I mentioned last week, I see this as probably the best
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step because you don't want to I think we have to do something terrain in
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the wild, wild West. You don't want money coming from everywhere, and
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particularly I think if you have it come from boosters or different companies associated with
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the school that they can have an undue influence on the school and possibly the
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players and the coaches. But I think that, you know, the exorbitant
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amount of money that's going to be coming in, how do you justify paying
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that player, you know, X millions of dollars but that player still has
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to buy and go to class and different things like that. I just think
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you open up a can of worms that potentially you can't you know, put
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back in the can. What do we do about D two, D three?
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I mean, there are great players that will be playing on those levels,
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and I'm going to make the case that they don't have twenty million dollars
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to get. Yeah, And I think that you know, it's going to
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be like it always was. I think that you know, now coaches are
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going to be probably the process of recruit I would imagine it's going to be
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changed a lot because you're gonna really really have to know that kid, his
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family, the type of player he is, the type of work ethic,
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what is he doing in school or he or she is doing in school on
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and off the court or field. So it's gonna be the investigative process of
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trying to figure out is this kid gonna be sustainable? There? Are they
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gonna be worth the money that we're paying them. So I think it's gonna
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be a lot more scrutiny on the kids when they're coming to these big programs,
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signing these big deals. And for the lower schools, I think they're
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gonna have to be a lot more creative and fundraising to try that because they're
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gonna have to get the kids something. I think the idea, or at
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least in the near future, that kids just play strictly for free, is
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probably out the winning. When I say for real, I mean outside of
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whatever they're getting scholarship was right. Well, so let me ask this question.
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Let's assume I'm being recruited by a major D one yeah, and I'm
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I'm a nationally ranked player. Let's say I'm I'm I'm a quarterback, and
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I'm the tenth best player in the country, been rated the ten tenth best
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player in the country. And I go to I go to out of Side.
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I'm gonna go to Alabama because they're gonna they're maxing me out. What
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happens when all of a sudden, can well let me ask this question first,
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can you max me out from at Alabama? And I'm gonna sit two
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years? See, I think that's a good point. And I think these
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are all the little nuance and questions that have to be that's gonna be flushed
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out here pretty soon. Because just like we saw last week, or just
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like we discussed last week with the player from Florida, you know, he
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came in, he signs a one million dollar sign of bonus, he's promised
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fourteen million dollars. It doesn't pan out, he doesn't start, and now
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you know he he's out nice suing Florida and the coaches. And again,
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because essentially a scholarship, you have to really do something. You have to
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break a legitimate rule to lose your scholarship. And whether or not people know
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this or not like that, that line is a is a long line.
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Like it's gonna take you a lot to do something wrong. I mean,
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if you break a law, it's not like you coming late to practice or
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something like that. They can't just pull that scholarship because you did something crazy.
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And that's what I'm saying. I think the scrutiny now is that coach
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is going to be a lot less toulrable, Like if something something goes down,
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you know, at a party off the field, even on the field
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on the court, that player could potentially just behay. We're cutting everything depending
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on how these deals are structure. Which that's the part I mean tred about
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it. Yes, yes, I think that's the That is the interesting point.
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That's that's the most important piece of it is how they structure this.
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What's the contract you sign your name saying I'm going to Idaho. Okay,
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I'm going and I'm gonna and I and I'm maxed out, I'm twenty million
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dollars. You got to you as the as the school, you as the
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coach, you have to say, you have to tell me something like you
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you can't do this, you can't do this. If you do this,
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this is gonna cost you. That there has to be that. We haven't
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seen that yet. We haven't heard anything about that yet. It's all new.
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But and you can't be free and then like how far does it go?
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Right? Like, because now you know, are kids gonna now say,
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hey, look I want X amount of dollars plus I want dad or
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mom to be on the staff, or I want them to have a job
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at the school. I want to an apartment, apartment in a house.
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You know, I want this, I want that, Like how exactly how
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far does it go? And then just to the point, like I said,
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if you're at eighteen, imagine being a seventeen some kids inter college at
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seventeen, You seventeen to eighteen year old kid entering school. You're making you
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know, you signed on for maybe a meal half a million. You're making
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more than your professors. What's the incentive to go to class other than just
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maybe getting or I wouldn't even say the incentive going to class? Obviously you
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need the grades of play. But what's the incentive to even take this professor?
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Seriously? What? What? Let me ask this question to you directly.
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Let's say you you were into the field of teaching. You know,
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yes, yes, so in that field, I'm a seventeen eighteen year old
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kid sitting in your class. I'm making twenty million dollars this year and I
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got to add jump a contract for five thousand for the semester. Yes,
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and so how do I In my mind, I'm looking at you like,
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right, you should know who I am because I'm the twenty million dollar man,
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Yeah, and you need to understand how this has to work or what
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is the pressure on professors now right? Yeah, because that's a better work.
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What's the pressure because now he got so he or she got some c's
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and d's. Are you now getting coaches from the excuse me calls from that
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booster or that coach like, hey, man, come on, man,
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you got to it's a lot of money on the line. Now come on
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now, are you is there? Are you going to face that pressure from
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the athletic department to pass these kids along because they made such an investment.
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So there's somebody, there's somebody who just listened to what you just said.
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And towards the end there where you start talking about, you know, coaches
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contacting coach teachers because that that kids getting a D instead of they need him
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to get a B or whatever he's saying that folks, because that does happen.
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Yeah, I mean there is for you know, and I know it's
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it's it's kind of hard to kind of come out and say, you know
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this, these types of things will happen in college in major college ball,
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getting the grade changed, These things do happen. Yeah, and and and
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look man, and for twenty million dollars for twenty minute, That's what I'm
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saying. And then just like even if even if the calls aren't happening,
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I still think that professor will feel that pressure and just then the animosity that
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some of these officials would have towards some of these kids when like you just
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said, you're in a class room making one hundred thousand, a million whatever
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as a player, and I'm barely you know, paying my bills as a
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PhD professor and I'm legitimately in that class flirting with a D, flirting with
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a D. And then I need, yeah, that I need to be
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a b. Yeah, so who's the motivation? Like, where is the
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motivation and who's it on? See? And I just think that's why they
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just they've screwed this all up. NCUBA has just as they often do.
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They just screwed something else up again because I again, like I said,
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this should have been players weren't asking for this at least this amount. They
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were just asking for a piece of the pie. But now I just don't
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see how we can call this amateur sports anymore because it's just not And then
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with title nine, how does that work? Are you going to pay the
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football player at Alabama who's bringing in the bulk of the revenue a million dollars.
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But what does the golfer make? What is the person on the swim
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team or other Olympic sports will do they make the same amount? Like how
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does all these things? How we're going to navigate all these waters? And
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what if? What if the swimmer, the female swimmer is the best swimmer
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in the conference, may win, may win the championship, and you you
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can't justify or even wiggle away out of her not being the twenty million dollar
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girl. But you but you can because ain't nobody. You're not filling up
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a swim meet with rabbit one hundred thousand rabbit fans. So it's like you
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can justify it now, whether you can legally justify it, I don't know
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how you balance those things out. Because now the money's coming from the school.
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It's not like it's coming from a booster. Boosts can do what they
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want, they can plus their money in school, but that school's getting they're
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getting that money still from a booster. That no, no, no,
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I mean, if they're saying that the payment's going to come directly from the
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school, like, if I'm a booster, I can earmark my money to
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where I wanted to go. Now, if the payment's coming directly from that
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university, that state institution, how do I get away with paying this?
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Or can I That's see, these are questions you got to ask because you
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may be about your Yeah, you may be able to justify paying the quarterback
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of million dollars a year because he's going to bring in ten times ten that
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revenue that you're paying it. But but you got to justify playing the like
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you said, the top swimmer, top female swimmer who you know ain't a
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revenue coming from that sport. But she but she's the best. But she's
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the best, you see what I'm saying, And and and she is going
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to make the case if I'm her or I'm her parent, if I'm her
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dad, I'm like, she's no different than your number one guy on basketball,
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your number one guy in football. That's a tough sale, but it's
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a tough sale. But she's the best that you got. She's the best
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at her what she does. But she does you know what I mean?
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And is it? Is it? Because no one's saying that you you can
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only get this if the revenue's coming in. If your sport is bringing in
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revenue, it's not that doesn't that's not spelled out there, which again goes
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to your point. There's a whole lot of stuff that that still needs to
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be really worked out, because we know football generates the most money. But
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if you're paying, if you're paying, how are you paying these guys?
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Is it by skill? Is it by talent? Is it what is it
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by? Because if that's the case, it doesn't matter how competitive girls women's
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swimming is. What's competitive? How how I'm gonna watch? I'm just saying
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it doesn't really matter. If I'm the best in the conference and you're paying
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a guy who's one of the eleven or one of the five, you're gonna
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pay him twenty million. And I'm the best in the valley, I'm the
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best in the state, I'm the best in the in the conference. How
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and I'm a female and I'm I'm winning the national championship year after year?
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What are you gonna do? Yeah, and let's clean up something first,
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because it wasn't it's not necessarily they can pay each athlete twenty million. What
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it is is that they're see I read it that way, each school can
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set aside up to twenty one million in revenue to share amongst the athletes per
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Okay, see, okay, I took that totally the other way. Yeah,
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so it's it's it's you know, so they have up to twenty million
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dollars, changes the twenty one million dollars to share amongst the athlete. But
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still not it doesn't necessarily change the conversation because it's still how does that look?
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Give up? Like, how does that money get distributed? Okay?
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Can they can? They say this person even but even amongst the women's sports.
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So if I'm the best swimmer and maybe that's a big sport in my
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school and people actually come and pay to watch it, do I pay the
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top swimmer ten thousand per year? And then the other people? And the
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other question like, how does that work even amongst women's sports? Well,
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and here's the other question. When you say all these different colleges, are
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you saying D two? I mean, far as the article states, this
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is more the way they're framing it is more about you know, the power
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five d V one conference schools. Now, again, far as this revenue
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model, far as amongst just within the school they can choose to do this
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or not. So the schools doesn't have to do this. But to the
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point we just made earlier or even last week, if you don't do it,
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then you're setting yourself behind a ball. So if but if you're so,
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if you're a school and I say, okay, now you can get
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this nil money, we're gonna market you. You're gonna get parade McDonald's.
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Woo woo woo. But in addition to that, we got this twenty one
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million dollars that we're gonna split between amongst our student athletes. So it's almost
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like you have to do it. You don't have a choice. All right,
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So I'm gonna I'm gonna go I'm gonna go here with this, and
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I'm curious to see what you say. Okay, So if I'm a student,
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and if I'm a student athlete in the school, then I'm I'm happy
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because I'm gonna I'm gonna be generating income, which which which I ask,
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which I do support The other question though, are we are we better off?
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Are we gonna be better off? Even when this gets structured in the
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right kind of way, Are we going to be better off in collegiate sports
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with the money in it or without the money. I mean we knew question,
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yeah, because we knew. Everybody knows that if you've been in sports,
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everybody knows there's always been money in sports. There's always been money under
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the table, in the pillowca's whatever, it's always been there. I think
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if they would have done it right, I think we would have been better
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off. But I think the way in which is being done now, and
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it doesn't seem like the entities involved, whether that's government, the NCAA,
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schools, they're not really taking the time, in my eyes, to really
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figure it out in totality to come up with blanket rules. So I don't
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in the short term, I don't think we're gonna be better because I think
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we're gonna have way too much movement. I think that instead of you,
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when you talk about moving, you're talking plans first first in all school right,
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because basically what's going to happen is like you'll have a kid that you
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know, a lower D one or James Madison or whatever their go to.
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They're go there and they're looking for the bigger opportunity or even like a Maryland
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or WVU, they may go there for a while and then look for a
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Marshall, look for the bigger opportunity. And in addition, I don't think
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I think now instead of you fight in particularly sports like football, basketball,
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instead of you fighting for the league, trying to get there. That's the
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ultimate goal. As you mentioned earlier, Hey, if I can make a
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couple hundred thousand in school, maybe that's enough with a degree, and I
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can go ahead to start my life. So it's I don't know if you're
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going to have that same hunger, and I think the motivation is going to
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be different. We seen one of Dion's kids. He got sued and he
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had a foul bankruptcy and they were starting to look at his finance. He's
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making millions of dollars, you know, I mean just kind of what's the
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I mean, I don't know. I just don't think. Again, as
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a purest, I don't know if it makes it better when I when I
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think about it, I see it again. I go back and I've never
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been I've never been against paying college athletes because of the money that's in collegiate
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athletics as a whole, from the TV revenues and all that. I don't
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I didn't. I truly didn't believe that the school itself should be benefiting from
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all of that money, and and the and the participants who are who are
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generating that money making that money happen get nothing. But I do think,
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and when I so, when I when I toss this around to me,
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I think there should be just a strict, straight structure of pay. But
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if you're this guy, everybody understands who the number one guy is, or
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whoever the coach identifies as the guy the must have god or the must have
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guys, they get X dollars. Then the next crew gets x dollars,
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and then the last crew if it's three, four or five, you have
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too much contention in that. Well, but but here, but but we
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know, come on, be honest with you when you're playing. When you're
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playing, you realize somebody. You can look at somebody and say he's better
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than you. You may not say it out loud, and you may fight
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that you're better than him, but sometimes you just know. Yeah. But
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and if the coaches made that decision, they could be wrong, and you
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could you could you could say, well, I'm better than Crawl. I
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know I'm better than Crawl. You all know I'm better than krawl. But
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if it's in that, if it's even, if it's that close, why
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shouldn't we be in that top tier because it's that number one. I'm not
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necessarily saying that subjective, but what I am saying is that like who determined,
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like who determines that, who determines who plays? I mean to determine.
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So the coach is now charged with not only determined what's going on for
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well, he's determined everybody's paycheck. He's also is he not he not unnecessarily
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not necessarily it's like a D booster, that's kind of who's been dealing it.
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But they're not just gonna they're not just there's not gonna be that a
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D or booster whatever gonna be you know, whoever this communicating guy is or
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or But again, I mean, they're not gonna go to you and say
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I'm gonna give you all right, I'm gonna give you four million. But
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I think if this particular, once you do that, once you do that,
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it's gonna come. It's always gonna be a negotiation happening, because like,
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for example, if I'm the backup now and I come in half the
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season. I have a great year. Now, I got to go back
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and negotiate if I have a great game or great play. Well, I'm
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not not so much. I'm not saying that because you're gonna know you're not
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the coach. May not, it may not be set up that way.
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But if I'm a player, and if I come in, if I'm at
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the C tier, I'm making C tier money. And then I come in,
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I have a string. Maybe I'm off the bench or the guy get
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the start, it gets hurt. And I come in and I have some
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baller games. I got three or four just great games. I'm okay,
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what's up? What's up with's some more money now? Or the next season?
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What's uh? We need to talk about more money now. I need
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to get bumped up to this tear. So it's constantly moving guys up.
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And now what I'm saying is that you make it a blanket by classification.
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Freshmen get paid this soft container. You paid it now and then far as
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everybody, and then you get bumps for for all conference, all conference,
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all that you make it. I like, send that base and then those
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guys, who are those guys and those girls and who are those girls,
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They'll they'll get the PEP season, the Gator Rays, and they'll get those
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deals and they'll be able to maximize that way. But I'm saying, if
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the school paying, we're paying you this, this, this, everybody getting
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this and nobody getting nothing different, and then if you make this, this
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and this, then that's where we bump it up. You could even bump
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it up for grades. So if you come in you got a three point
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five, can you get a bump? You got a four point Oh,
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you get a bump? You Caitlin Clark? Okay, do you do you
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ever see her? And I'm saying, she's having a good year, but
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she you know, it's probably not what she thought. She's a rookie.
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Do you think there's any player, any female athlete worthy? And I don't.
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That's not really the right word. Yeah, it's not the word right
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because I'm trying. My point is, I'm trying to figure out, like
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their value to their game is as great as my value to the game that
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I'm playing. And and and so I'm unhappy with with her pay. And
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I'm thinking, if she's considered the top player, we are you talking about
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what she's in college? Youre talking about I'm I'm talking about now, I'm
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talking about if either way though, even if she's in college, if she's
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in college, she to me would have been the highest paid player, or
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let's just say one of the highest paid players. But how how close is
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that to the highest paid male basketball player? Again, That's what I'm saying.
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I don't because I think I think at some point we that that we
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have to make this turn and accept the reality that And I know that this
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might not be that many odds on the game, not that many people coming
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to the game, like it is like the n b A and all that
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kind of stuff, But the w n b A. These women deserve more
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money than they're getting. No, they don't. They don't, they don't.
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And and and then that's and people say that just because you you they're
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and I'm saying they're going to start like starting now moving forward. Yeah,
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they deserve more money. But you can cannot. You cannot have a subsidized
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league that's basically being funded by another whole organization that you're not making any money
25:08
in this endeavor and then try to lobby for more pay. It doesn't work
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like that. Now, Again, if you're making money if the money's flowing,
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and then the owners and the and the administrators of that league are being
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greedy. They're not paying you justly. But we can't squeeze blood out of
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a turn up. Now it's turning around in which they're starting to they're gonna
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make the money, they're gonna they're gonna that league is gonna grow exponentially.
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And what they're doing to the league because everybody always talks about Caitlyn Clark,
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She's not the only starter to come out of get that. I just like,
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you know, I know, I got you. But you have Angel
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Reach, you have the I forget her name, she's in LA. You
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got some superstars that came out of that class. And if the w NBA
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maximizes and really markets those stars that they have in the league. You got
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the A from the Vegas Aces, you got some ballers in that league,
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so really start to market it better, then they'll be fine and they're gonna
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make the money. But you can't justify because what hadn't happened in the past.
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The league ain't made money in the past. They lost, So you
26:15
can't justify paying somebody money you don't get all right, all right, ladies
26:21
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27:29
Let's talk. This is let's talk with Carl Lee. Now back through the
27:33
conversation. All right, ladies and gentlemen, we're back. And uh so,
27:37
Hollis you're gonna you're you're changing. I guess you're changing the subject on
27:41
me, and we're I'm a little bad knowing. Add to it, Yeah,
27:44
because in addition to these new rules where the colleges can pay players,
27:48
there's a new there's I don't know if it's already been set in stone,
27:53
but there's definitely talks about it where, uh the schools calls for an agreement
27:59
between the n C, DOUAA and the various conferences that's going to pay like
28:03
two point seven billion dollars into a pot over a ten year period. Basically,
28:08
it's going to go to pay about fourteen thousand former in college football excuse
28:15
me, college athletes. So yeah, I like that part of the rule,
28:21
not just football's former and current college athletes. What I don't understand from
28:26
endorsement and sponsorship deals dating back to twenty sixteen. Okay, what I don't
28:32
understand about that piece of it is how did okay, so, how did
28:40
how are they do this? Like you know, how are they do this
28:44
money? How did it get to this situation? Like do you do?
28:47
You do you know where this started? How this got started off? I
28:49
know there's been various like you said, even dating back to Ed O'Bannon,
28:53
there's always been various lawsuits over time. Again, I don't know if this
28:57
spawned out of a lawsuit. Maybe it's the NA deciding to do the right
29:03
thing. Like I said, it only goes back. I'm going to make
29:04
the case that's probably not. Yeah, it only goes back to two athletes
29:07
who played from twenty sixteen to current date. But it is something where at
29:12
least these former athletes because I think when you talk about maybe twenty sixteen,
29:18
you have these ignorminous TV deals. I think this was the time in which,
29:22
like the Texas and the Big Tens, everybody's getting their own networks,
29:26
right channels and different things of that nature. Gear and swagger is going through
29:30
the roof. So maybe that's why they base it on that. But I
29:34
I'm for this. This is a good thing where you can make sure some
29:37
of those players read the benefits. No, there's no question about it.
29:41
Anytime that you can that you go back and you give back to players that
29:51
are due that you can come up with the reason why they're due. I
29:55
think that's good. That's no different really than the NFL from from a standpoint
30:00
of paying players even for even for CTE and and and and things like that.
30:07
Now, you know, the only bad thing about that from from the
30:11
NFL standpoint is they're just cheap on that side of it. You know,
30:17
they're not. You know they if they if they had their choice, they
30:19
wouldn't. They wouldn't have they wouldn't have been part of any of that.
30:22
So anybody who anybody who's any organization who's out there that's actually willing to step
30:30
back and say, Okay, we were wrong, We're gonna do this.
30:34
I don't even I'll make the case and not trying to switch switch sports,
30:40
but I make I make the case that I don't think that the NFL cares
30:45
one way or the other on how how players have adjusted and and how they
30:56
deal with the issue of ct SEE. And that's what I'm saying, I
30:59
think, just to bring bringing it home when you it can look like the
31:03
NFL versus the w NBA, the NFL got it. They got the money,
31:07
paid players to play former players for injuries that they sustained for all that,
31:14
wn BA ain't got it right, and at least they didn't have it.
31:15
They I think they starting to get it now. But in addition,
31:19
and just to kind of clean up the initial point when we talk about that
31:25
paying former players, this is not only going to come from like the major
31:27
five conferences, you know, the Power five Conferences, but it's also going
31:32
to be comprised of sixty nine other schools and some smaller schools as well.
31:36
So, uh, you know, a bunch of offense to getting paid,
31:38
getting paid, getting the back paid. So they'll, uh, they'll they'll
31:41
see a bunch of that money. So that's that's a good thing. See.
31:45
And that's money, that's that's money that's been generated, Yeah, through
31:51
because it's billions, Yeah, it's billions. It's billions of dollars that they
31:56
have taken in and they get you know, owners get in the NFL,
32:04
the owners are getting crazy, crazy revenue, but they're not interested in they're
32:12
not interested in trying to do the right thing. And see, and that's
32:15
what I'm saying. I think that once we start opening it, because I
32:21
think the way the owners in the NFL, they're viewing players as a commodity,
32:25
right, You're just you're a means to an end, your commodity.
32:28
I mean again, I'm not saying everybody views them like that way, but
32:30
they're certainly not the you know, the fifty second guy on the roster,
32:35
fifty third, he's a guy's he's a body. He's a commodity. And
32:38
I think the beauty of what college football, excuse me, college sports were
32:43
was that you're, at least the good coaches, the administration school. You're
32:46
viewing this person in totality. So you're worried about what they do on the
32:51
field or on the court, but you're also worried about how to conduct themselves
32:54
on and off that field or court, but also what they're doing in the
32:58
classroom and making sure they're getting a degree and they are participating in student activities.
33:04
You're trying to develop a whole person. You're trying to develop a whole
33:07
person. We're now paying these athletes. I think they're just gonna be viewed
33:12
as commodities. And if you're not performing, you're not you do you know
33:15
you're not living up to just this little standard, You're gone. Grace is
33:20
that the fear to pay. I think that's the unattended consequences that there's there's
33:25
gonna be very little room for grace. And like I said, if you're
33:30
not living up to what we set up this money that we're paying out for
33:32
you, Andy Man, we gotta cut we gotta cut the eyes with you
33:35
immediately. Well. And and because that's a fact in in professional sports.
33:40
And and that's really and that's where they're coming to, whether or not they
33:45
know it or not, they're becoming quote a collegiate professional sport. Yeah,
33:49
it's a professor. That's what I'm saying. It's like that's where it's going
33:52
now. And so I think the same rules, the same sort of heartless
33:57
motives that you know these you know, high level ex with that's what that's
34:00
what it's gonna be. Yeah, the same person that the same person who
34:02
signs that contract and you're excited, is gonna be the same person who's gonna
34:07
be the one it's gonna tell you gotta go home. You gotta go because
34:08
and it's not gonna because you're not a good person. It's not gonna because
34:12
you're not performing in the classroom. It's because hey, you don't fit what
34:15
we're trying to do on the field of court. And now you know,
34:16
we got to bring and we got to bring somebody else. We can't afford
34:20
to keep paying you and you're sitting the bench and that, yeah, because
34:22
that that does not work for us financially. Financially first first, yeah,
34:29
and to create. And the crazy thing about sports, ladies and gentlemen is
34:36
it is a business. And the more the money comes into it, the
34:42
bigger the business. And collegiate sports is becoming a business. Yes, big
34:51
business, big business. It's been big business. Yeah, now, yes,
34:54
because now you got you basically got employees. You got employees, and
35:00
the expectation that you have of those employees is bigger than be on time.
35:08
But but now let me ask you this about that jersey. But but now,
35:12
is it like, Hey, if you ain't on time, I'm ducking.
35:14
I'm docking you a hundred, I'm docting you fifty, I'm doctoring you
35:16
a thousand. Does it Does it work like that? Now? Where like
35:19
if you get into trouble, if your grades drop below this, oh yeah,
35:22
we're docking. I think it almost has to. I think it almost
35:25
has to because if you if you if you allow me to have a couple
35:32
of d's and barely get to two point zero. We're risking somebody's money.
35:37
We're risking the university's money, and whoever, whoever the donor was who gave
35:44
them that money. We can't do that. And and to that point,
35:51
does the school hold you as the head coach or the money person? Do
35:57
they hold you accountable to make or that you you make sure those changes need
36:01
to be made in that amount because of where these kids are academically and or
36:07
socially. That's gonna be an interesting question because I think now you just seems
36:12
to me like you would almost have to hire like a GM, so to
36:15
speak, particularly like I'm saying, if you're dealing with like an Alabama or
36:20
Florida Florida state when it really real mega universities, those power fives, do
36:23
you hire like a GM? Do you hire like a sort of a manager
36:29
to keep those things attacked? Because frankly, trying to run a program,
36:32
trying to recruit, trying to fundraise and do all these things as a head
36:36
coach, as you know, I don't. You don't have time for nothing
36:38
else, So how are you gonna add this too? So seems like you
36:42
almost had to hire another body or bodies or bodies because you're gonna I mean
36:50
you, you can't. You can't wait till the end of the semester and
36:53
figure out what your grades are. You know what I'm saying, Like,
37:00
there's a there's a monitoring structure here that has to be able to say Hollis's
37:06
is, He's fine. We ain't got no issues with him. Even before
37:09
I signed you, I need to know I need to have already gone back
37:14
and checked if you if you too, oh to one you right there by
37:17
that level? How you gonna be in my office trying to get top dollar,
37:22
That's what I'm saying. I just think the conversations is gonna switch from
37:24
like conversations about life and what are you gonna do, you know with football
37:30
or basketball? What are you gonna do with you you know once that ends
37:34
career, family, now the conversation like, man, what's up with this
37:37
contract? You know, we need to have this incentive, so we need
37:40
to do this or do that, or I want this or I want that.
37:44
I have a I have a I have a personal question to ask you.
37:47
Okay and okay, So way back in the beginning when we started doing
37:53
the show, we you you were talking and was talking about your outlook when
38:00
I by the time I got to state where your mindset was, you were
38:06
you were solely academic and football was just, you know, something to kind
38:10
of assist you with the cost of it. Yea, So now put that
38:17
put put yourself in that spot this coming college season. You're you're, You're
38:25
in Oklahoma. You you are thinking the exact same way right now, right
38:35
now as you were then. Do you is that enough? Is the money
38:42
enough to change your mind to go after or are you still locked into just
38:46
like I? You know, I'm just I just lost the love for the
38:50
game. Man. If I'm telling you, if if there was an opportunity
38:54
and I had the opportunity to make a similar amount like the kid in Florida
38:59
we here, he was supposed to make the fourteen million and all that,
39:01
I would be going balls to the wall for that bread because at the very
39:07
least, how I would think, how I think I would process it would
39:09
be like, even if the NFL don't work out, this is a great
39:14
down payment on life. So even if I could come out of here,
39:17
you know, saying three four years and I can make a couple hundred thousand,
39:21
or even just one hundred thousand. This is a great down payment on
39:24
my life moving forward. So I think now my motivation would have been tough
39:30
because now I don't have to go to the league. I don't have to
39:32
play that long if I don't want to. I could focus, really get
39:37
my academics and really figure out where I'm going. I could pay for law
39:39
school cash. I don't have to take out debt. You know what I'm
39:43
saying. Yeah, And I was gonna say what it does. It offers
39:45
you an opportunity to better yourself. For whatever the amount of money is,
39:50
it's more than you would have had doing nothing. So now, as a
39:52
student athlete, whether it's one hundred thousand, fifty thousand, you now have
39:59
a jump online life with being able to walk out and take fifty thousand dollars
40:04
with you and start and start from there. That you I don't think you
40:09
can. I don't think you can beat it being there the only thing that
40:14
I would say, But most kids thinking that way, I think some of
40:19
them will be. And I why I asked you, because your mindset.
40:22
I think what's going to happen is that those kids in the Olympic sports who
40:28
really realize that a professional thing ain't really whole enough story. Man, they're
40:32
going to take full advantage of that if they start to get paid. But
40:37
I think the guys may be who are teetering and thinking may be professional.
40:40
There's an opportunity, the football, basketball guys and girls, they may be
40:45
the ones end up blowing that money. You know what I mean. You
40:49
see what I'm saying. Yes, yes, but your point about the Olympic
40:52
athlete. I didn't want to interrupt you, but I was like, chew
40:57
it at the bit. Okay, that's a whole other athlete. Yeah,
41:00
that's a whole I went a gold medal, well, I mean Olympic sports.
41:07
Yeah, but let's just say I'm I'm an i end up qualifying for
41:10
the Olympics. I'm a swimmer, okay, okay, gotcha. I'm a
41:14
track I'm a track guy. Okay, I'm getting one hundred, one hundred
41:20
and fifty. I go to the Olympics. I went the gold medal.
41:25
No, okay, I see where you're going. You get paid for that
41:29
gold medal, and now you get endorsements, and now I can come back
41:31
to college, I can get the endorsements, But what are you gonna pay
41:36
me? Am I coming back to you. Okay, It's like the one
41:40
that I forget the young woman's name. She was she's she was a great
41:45
I forget her that she's great swimmer, and then she goes to texts she
41:47
was still a Texas University and she was she was killed. She wanted like
41:52
a million gold medals over there. That's it. Yeah, that's that's interesting
41:54
conversation. Yeah, because that's interesting. I'm the best in the world,
42:00
the best the world, the best, And you can't say that as a
42:02
football player. You might be the best guy on the team, you might
42:05
be the most valuable player in the conference or whatever, but that don't necessarily
42:08
you can't say that right now. You can't say that. But when you
42:14
when you when you walk on campus with that Olympic medal, and those Olympics
42:19
actually can't come from any school, any school. It might be won at
42:22
Marshall right now, and they go win the bronze or silver and then they
42:25
come back to Marshall like, what's up? What are you? What are
42:29
you? I'm the second second, I'm the first best in the world.
42:31
Right now? What you got for me? That's a good question. I
42:36
mean, see all of these pieces, all of these pieces have are they
42:42
thinking are they are they aware of that potential? That's what I'm saying.
42:46
I just think, like I said, when you when you do it like
42:50
it, it just causes way too much chaos. Well we saw what happened.
42:54
We saw chaos already, and I think, now, yeah, we
42:58
saw chaos. Chaos has already been there once, but now here we are
43:05
with a new kind of approach to it. And they think, you know,
43:08
somebody sitting there thinking, okay, this is I just don't see why
43:14
you just don't make it like scholarships. You know, like in in D
43:19
two or D three or D three or whatever, you get a certain amount
43:22
of scholarships per school. Every school got the same scholarships. And I'm saying,
43:25
like, if you power five, you you got the same levels of
43:30
pay. You got the same money in the parting level and the and there's
43:32
like I said, freshman saw more senior, D two, D one,
43:37
No, not the f cs now, So I'm saying, like, just
43:39
make it simple. Why even like if you're gonna if you're gonna put rules
43:45
around it, why make these Arboritray rules where you can opt in, you
43:49
can opt out and do this, and it just doesn't make sense. Man,
43:52
I think this is gonna really be interesting, and I think I think
43:59
the fan base. I'm curious about where the fan base finds themselves in this
44:06
situation because sometimes, you know, you've seen this situation where your favorite football
44:13
players contracts up. You're hoping he gets signed. You know you're a happy
44:17
because he gets his money. And if he doesn't get his money, then
44:22
what you you? You you're angry too, And so does that fan base?
44:30
Do you do you? Are you gonna have a are you gonna have
44:34
Are you gonna lose a fan base because of your star athlete? Nah?
44:39
I don't think so. I don't think so. If you if you're a
44:43
WU fan, excuse me, if you're a w VU fan, you don't
44:46
care who to I mean, you carry the quarterback is, but that quarterback
44:49
leave you? But they if it's because they don't pay, because I'm telling
44:53
you, in the NFL. In the NFL, when a player leaves and
45:00
because the team doesn't want to match or doesn't want to, doesn't want to
45:07
doesn't want to pay him, mhm, the fan base is upset yeah.
45:13
But but those people from Minnesota, from South Dakota that been Viking fans their
45:19
whole life, they're gonna be fans now to your point, that's gonna that's
45:22
gonna happen. If somebody's at w V Marshall, they're not getting paid to
45:27
lead, They're gonna be pretty mad at the administration, but they're still gonna
45:30
be fans. I don't think. I don't think it shakes up the fan
45:32
base like that. But like I said, just like sports betting, just
45:37
like you're gonna be mad who changed the dynamic. You're gonna get mad.
45:39
You gotta get mad at somebody and somebody who's behind the scenes, who are
45:43
actually controlling the money. Okay, I'm mad at you because you're the coach.
45:47
I'm mad at you because you didn't get you didn't keep such and such.
45:52
I'm gonna be mad at you. Yeah, like I said, it's
45:54
gonna happen. It's gonna happen because how did y'all let such and such?
45:58
How did y'all let Caitlin call get away? Yeah, I mean, why
46:00
didn't y'all sign her? That's what I'm saying. The dynamic is gonna change,
46:06
Like the dynamic and the conrace, just just how fantasy sports and gambling
46:09
and different things of that nature's changed the talking points around sports. This is
46:14
gonna change it too, and particularly and that's what and I guess that's the
46:16
part that I just I hate the most because college sports to me was like
46:22
the last of the last. It was the last of the big sports that
46:27
you could see every week on TV playing for the benefit of paying for the
46:32
school all of that. So I think now and it's like and now we
46:37
even see in like not necessarily with the money per se, which that might
46:40
be opening up too soon, but even like high school sports, just how
46:45
fluid kids go from school to school. So it's like sports in general,
46:49
they just don't have the same And again I hate to sound like the old
46:52
uncle or something like that, but they just don't have the same. Yeah,
46:55
but they just don't have the same you know, the feeling is what
47:00
they had once upon a time. And I think I've said this before,
47:02
I'm gonna say it again. If we do this in high school in the
47:08
state of West Virginia, we pay kids to play. I'm just telling you,
47:17
if you if you better have people, if you vote for it,
47:22
you better have people that can pay in your community. Who's gonna who's gonna
47:30
support your school for that kid to get money, Because I guarantee you they're
47:36
gonna be people and other programs in other areas, in other counties who are
47:43
gonna pay for your kid to come to their school. Yes, man.
47:49
And and what's gonna happen is every time you get a star. Every time
47:54
you get a star, he leaving your county. Yeah, and he's going
48:00
to another county because there's more money. He can get more money, or
48:04
she can get more money, a job, a job. Now it's all
48:08
just in the open. But I just I don't know. I just think
48:10
the sanctity that was sports is now just you know, is dwindling. And
48:19
I think, you know, when we look at women's sports, I think
48:22
that's why it's so much more intrigued because I think the again, they have
48:25
it in women's sports too, But I think just that that grit that once
48:30
upon a time we had is just you know, it's gone with male sports,
48:35
you know what I mean. That's why I can't wait for the Olympics,
48:37
because I think that is a time where you're seeing somebody who's built up
48:40
four years of training and practice to come to this one event that might last
48:45
thirty seconds. They're truly gonna give it everything. Not to say that other
48:51
people don't, but it's truly about that moment and nothing else. And I'm
48:54
gonna I and I'll go with you on that and say and add to that,
49:00
four by one, four by two, all those kind of relay races
49:06
that those group that four, those four or five people, because you always
49:10
got somebody in case, you got to have God and have somebody in case
49:14
somebody goes down. That group is the closest group of any sport. You
49:25
drop a baton in practice, you know, I'm sure there's conversation about it.
49:30
Come on, we gotta get that down because you ain't getting on opportunity
49:34
because you don't get another opportunity. It's one and that it's one and done.
49:37
We only got one chance, so we can't ever drop it. In
49:39
practice. All we should be doing is looking at how good it is the
49:44
handoff is, so we know we're getting better. Because you mess up in
49:47
their qualifying rounds, you're done, get done, you're duneye. That's why
49:51
I think. That's why I think if if the Olympus really marketed. I
49:55
think this could be, like it could be the renaissance of the Olympics,
49:59
because this is the the Olympics is truly the last great sporting event in my
50:04
eyes. And I'll give you that. And I'll even say this, if
50:07
you want to pay somebody, pay them. Yeah, they get paid,
50:13
they get paid a little bit, but it's not no more close to what
50:15
if it was anything close to that, we'd already know about it. Because
50:19
I just think, to me, like I was, like I listened to
50:22
or I listened to sports talk radio, just fantasy football, gambling, all
50:29
that. Just just the pain, the transfers, everything has just purely diluted
50:35
my whole sports experience just and I you know, I love football, love
50:38
basketball, baseball, but it's just it just ain't the same at least for
50:43
me. And see that's again, I'm I've rarely watch a sport, like
50:50
rarely watching the football game, right like just because because because it's just it's
50:54
ruined. I feel like it's like this dude is this dude is probably making
51:01
more money in a week playing I ain't hating. Okay, no, then
51:08
I've made you know, and maybe a whole season and I'm and I'm still
51:15
trying to figure out, you know, what's what's what accolades does he have?
51:27
Yeah? I get that, And I could only wish, Holland,
51:30
I can only wish that I could. I could, I could be second
51:37
Pro Bowl going into season contract up. I just would love to getting paid
51:45
now, you would get paid as a quarterback. That's such a skilled position,
51:49
such a difficult position to play. Now you're getting paid, you know.
51:54
I just I think that. And it's why I think that the Olympics
52:01
is the most It's really a special kind of a thing and it has the
52:07
opportunity to just be so much more this year. I love it all the
52:14
time. I do too. I grew up watching it. And why are
52:17
you saying that you think this one is going to be better than Because I
52:21
think that where we are at in sports, I think, like I said,
52:24
the purity of like watch baseball football, it's it's always conspiracy theories and
52:30
all this. And you have a bunch of you listen to going to the
52:34
internet, it's a bunch of old basketball and NBA guys, you know,
52:38
talking hens, just talking crap about the sport all the time. Right in
52:43
fact that everything else we've just said, I think this is the opportunity,
52:45
like you said, with this group, this four by one group been running
52:49
together for four years, Yes, working, and this is it. They
52:52
don't get no second chances, ain't no. The next season is four years
52:58
and then those group might not be together. You know, it's not gonna
53:00
work. The person that the guy girl doing a long jump, or the
53:04
man and women you know in the doubles tennis or or the bag minton team.
53:07
This is it, you know what I mean. And and so you
53:10
don't got time to be a prima donna in this moment. And I know,
53:15
like some people have critiqued some of the new events that they they've included
53:22
into the Olympics, you still have to be great at it. You still
53:27
got to be great. You have to be great. Thing is you get
53:30
one time every four years. Yes, that powerlifter who's doing a cleaning press
53:35
or power cleaning press or whatever it is or hang clean that that that's a
53:39
ten second thing that you got to get right now in this moment, and
53:44
you do not get another. Your focus has got to be on such a
53:49
different level because you know, in football player, what do we say next?
53:51
Play next? Player. You know what I'm saying, You're gonna get
53:52
a next play. This is it. That's what makes it. Yeah,
54:00
I think the greatest sport sporting at ben Yea of all time. I think
54:06
so too. And now we gotta get Olympic on Olympian, the former Olympia
54:08
on here. We gotta get somebody talk about that. That would that would
54:13
I can't even imagine being in it. Yeah, that's just just just to
54:16
be in it. It would be crazy. You know. We need to
54:19
do a little a little bit of research on that. All right, ladies
54:22
and gentlemen, you can catch you can catch all the shows one. You
54:28
can get it on Facebook. You can get all the updates there on Facebook.
54:31
We also air the show on Sunday at one pm and Thursday at seven
54:37
pm on five eighty w c HS. Any any topic that you would like
54:45
to have us talk about, feel free to contact me on Let's Talk Carl
54:52
Lee on Facebook and me and Hollis will try to find a way to address
54:57
it. All right, we're gonna get out of here, so we will
55:00
get back with you again soon. Let's Talk with Carl Lee is presented by
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Attorney Frank Walker. Real Talk, Real experience real results. Frank Walker Law
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dot com. Comment on episodes, ask Carl and Hollis questions, or it
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55:17
and remember to like the page to become part of the conversation. If you
55:22
fall, doesn't don't for get back up for your feet. Anything will be
55:25
a win, yup, even the feet that says shit's a bath for you?
55:29
Wise veryy sweet. Couldn't play with big kids. I had to sit
55:31
in the street and watch from a distance. But over time I grew.
55:36
If I put in the work, in no time, I'm doing everything that
55:38
I worked and prayed. I'm okay. If you ask me how did I
55:42
do it, I'm gonna say. You gotta work, cry shin. Just
55:45
mine gotta show. Everybody is my time. He ain't here. You gotta
55:49
work, cry shin. Never mind who talking died this day line, don't
55:53
talk. You gotta work. You gotta work. You gotta work, You
56:01
gotta work, you gotta work, You gotta work.