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S4E12 - How Do I Reduce My Child's Screen Time Without Constant Battles? · Play Therapy Parenting: Real Parenting Questions Answered by a Child Therapist

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  You're listening to the Play Therapy Parenting Podcast
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  with Dr. Brenna Hicks.
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  Hi,
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  I'm Dr. Brenna Hicks,
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  The Kid Counselor.
• 0:11
  This is the Play Therapy Parenting Podcast where I
• 0:14
  answer real parenting questions about behavior,
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  emotions,
• 0:17
  and the parent-child relationship.
• 0:19
  In today's episode,
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  I'm answering a question from Mariah.
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  Thank you for the question,
• 0:24
  Mariah.
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  I'm happy to dive into this.
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  And
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  it's really interesting because
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  for a lot of
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  new listeners or people that are finding the podcast recently,
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  There's so much information.
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  I mean,
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  this is the 4th season,
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  and if you go back and listen to previous seasons,
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  you know,
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  I mean,
• 0:41
  there's all kinds of content about child-centered
• 0:43
  play therapy through the lens of parenting.
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  There's questions that I've been answering over the course of years.
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  There are series that I've done.
• 0:50
  I did the Parent Companion for Play Therapy series in season 3.
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  So,
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  there's a lot to unpack.
• 0:55
  There's a lot there.
• 0:56
  So,
• 0:56
  for those of you that are new,
• 0:57
  those of you that have just found out about the podcast recently,
• 1:00
  first,
• 1:00
  welcome,
• 1:01
  and we're so glad you're here.
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  And secondly,
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  don't feel overwhelmed by the mountains of information in front of
• 1:08
  you that you could put into your ears from the airwaves.
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  Know that each season serves a different purpose,
• 1:14
  and so you can hop around,
• 1:15
  you can listen to one season at a time,
• 1:17
  you can binge listen from season one all the way through,
• 1:20
  whatever makes the most sense for you,
• 1:22
  but
• 1:22
  know that this is more of a resource for you
• 1:26
  than it is meant to feel like a burden or an expectation.
• 1:29
  You know,
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  everybody that's a part of the Play Therapy Parenting Podcast family,
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  we love kids,
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  we care about kids,
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  and we're trying to be the best version of ourselves that we can.
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  And so,
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  this is meant to be encouraging and uplifting and
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  feel supportive,
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  not draining and overwhelming.
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  So,
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  if you feel like there's a lot out there,
• 1:47
  there is,
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  but you can just kind of take it at your own pace and go through it as you're able.
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  So,
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  that's my little encouragement for all of you newbies and.
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  For those of my vets that have been with me forever,
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  I mean,
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  this podcast has been running for 10 years,
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  which is absolutely crazy.
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  So,
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  for those of you that have been around the block with me,
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  thank you for hanging on and for caring about your kids and
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  wanting to hang out with me each week.
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  I appreciate y'all.
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  OK,
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  so let me read parts of Mariah's email and then we will dive in.
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  I've been having my husband and the grandparents listen also,
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  so we're all on the same page.
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  I've been binge listening and your podcasts are so intriguing.
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  I'm so thrilled when
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  one person finds the podcast and then kind
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  of disseminates the information to all important people.
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  So,
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  yeah,
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  I mean,
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  spouses,
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  grandparents,
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  aunts,
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  uncles,
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  whoever,
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  it's always helpful when everyone gets to hear
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  the same language and the same approach.
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  So I'm excited about that.
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  I have been trying to implement the four pillars with my kids.
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  However,
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  I don't want to add too much all at once.
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  My main concern and reason I'm reaching out today is screens.
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  One of your favorite topics in parentheses.
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  Yes,
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  one of my
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  favorite and least favorite simultaneously,
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  I would argue.
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  I have your book on order as I speak.
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  I,
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  I hope that you find that really helpful,
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  Mariah.
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  It's
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  something that I'm really passionate about.
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  I mean,
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  just because of my own story and in the book I talk about
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  how I realized that screens were a concern with our own child.
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  And who is almost 17.
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  Literally next month he's going to be 17,
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  which that is both exciting and alarming.
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  But,
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  you know,
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  he's taller than me and weighs 190 pounds.
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  And so,
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  I mean,
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  he's,
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  he's not my little guy anymore,
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  but he's still my baby.
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  So
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  I,
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  I absolutely understand the importance of
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  being aware of what screens do and protecting kids from them.
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  And so I hope that that book is helpful to you.
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  It started when they were young.
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  They were handed a tablet,
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  and my two older ones have had a tablet ever since.
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  Yes,
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  they're on it most of the day,
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  every day.
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  They even go to bed with the TV on,
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  which we set a timer for 30 minutes.
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  That is why,
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  knowing now everything I know from listening to you,
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  I hate to admit it,
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  and it makes me sick to my stomach to witness.
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  Let me pause there because there's more to the email,
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  but Mariah,
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  let me give you a little bit of encouragement.
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  If
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  We blame ourselves for things that we don't know.
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  That's a fool's errand.
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  No one ever knows what they don't know.
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  That's one of the phrases we use in therapy a lot.
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  You don't know what you don't know.
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  So you can't hold yourself responsible and accountable for not knowing something.
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  What you can hold yourself responsible and accountable to is once you do know,
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  what are you going to do with the new information,
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  you know,
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  with knowledge comes responsibility,
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  and that's true of all things in our lives.
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  So once we are made aware of how damaging and dangerous screens are,
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  for example,
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  we say,
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  All right,
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  well now that I know,
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  and we make changes.
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  And you know,
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  I obviously that's what you're trying to do.
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  You're emailing me,
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  you've you've bought the book,
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  so
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  understandably,
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  yes,
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  we can look back and go,
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  oh my gosh,
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  I'm,
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  I'm so sad about that,
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  or I wish I would have known,
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  or
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  it like really upsets me to think about that.
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  However,
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  one of our rules of thumb.
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  What's most important may not be what you do,
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  but what you do after what you've done.
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  And that applies here because
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  what you did was you gave your kids screens and tablets and they've
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  had them and they're on them a lot and you didn't know.
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  But now that you do know,
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  what's most important is what you do after what you did.
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  So you've given them the tablet,
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  but now you can change that.
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  And so we're going to move forward
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  and we know that changes will take place because of the knowledge.
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  OK,
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  so continuing.
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  I've taken your recommendation on monitoring and
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  seeing how much they're on screens,
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  and until you actually keep track,
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  you don't even realize how much it adds up.
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  I 100% agree with you,
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  and interestingly,
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  most people underreport
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  until they actually take time to legit track it.
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  They'll say like,
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  oh,
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  I mean,
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  I think probably only like 3 hours,
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  and then if they track it,
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  it's like 6.
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  And so that is often shocking.
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  I 100% agree.
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  You have no idea until you actually add it up.
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  In one podcast I listened to,
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  you stated to have them earn screen time in small amounts.
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  They do get an allowance,
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  however,
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  I was thinking of incorporating this with their chores as well,
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  so they could get money and screen time.
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  With them basically having screens all their life,
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  how do I go about this change?
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  Do I slowly wean them off?
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  Do I set their amount of time for their screen usage and go to that straight away?
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  I've been trying to explain to my son that I'm just trying to keep him safe
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  and how bad screens are for his brain and in general how bad they are.
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  Obviously he's not really understanding because they live in their hearts.
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  So how do I explain this to him and my daughter so that they get it?
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  OK,
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  so quite a few questions we're gonna tackle there together and
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  Mariah,
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  I'm actually grateful that you submitted this question.
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  I'm,
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  I'm appreciative of your vulnerability because
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  I can guarantee you
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  if we look at
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  numbers and stats.
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  95 out of 100 people listening to this podcast
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  are in exactly the same position that you're in,
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  and hopefully this is a little bit of a PSA.
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  It's a little bit of a wake-up call.
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  It's a little bit of a reminder
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  of how careful we need to be with screens.
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  So,
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  if nothing else,
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  this is going to serve as a little light bulb for a lot of parents
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  that are listening,
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  and they're gonna go,
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  gosh,
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  I really need to
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  clamp down on my kids' screens.
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  I really need to be more aware of that.
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  I need to make sure that we have appropriate amount of screen use every day.
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  So,
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  even just the fact that we're talking about it is going to be really helpful,
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  but I do
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  definitely want to give you answers to your questions too,
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  Mariah.
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  So,
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  All right,
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  we know that they're used to a lot.
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  So one of the things,
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  and you probably have the book by this 0.1 of the things that
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  I talk about in the book is it's going to be really hard
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  to implement changes related to screens
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  without a couple of considerations.
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  The first is you need to be prepared for a battle,
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  and I don't say that to discourage you.
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  I don't say that to
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  make you feel wary of even trying this,
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  but
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  we can always handle things if we're prepared,
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  and if we're unprepared,
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  things feel a lot worse.
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  So it is more helpful for you to go,
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  my kids are probably really going to fight back on this.
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  My kids are probably going to get really angry.
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  I might have tantrums.
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  I might have screaming.
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  I might have crying.
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  I might have begging.
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  I might have refusal to do all kinds of things.
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  If you know that those are potential outcomes
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  to changing the screen times.
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  Then you will say,
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  OK,
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  I had a feeling this was going to happen.
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  OK,
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  I anticipated this,
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  and you will feel more equipped to handle it.
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  So I think that's step one.
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  Now,
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  your kids may not buck that hard,
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  but
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  I would be surprised if they don't buck at least a little bit.
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  So you're going to get some bucking is,
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  is the moral of that story.
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  So all y'all,
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  all y'all,
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  that's my Southern lingo right there.
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  All y'all need to be prepared
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  for if you start implementing changes in screen time,
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  meaning reducing it.
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  Regulating it,
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  making sure that it is an appropriate amount.
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  Kids are going to fight.
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  It is addictive.
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  It
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  changes chemicals.
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  They have dopamine as a result of screen time.
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  They have adrenaline as a result of screen time.
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  Their fight or flight is triggered as a result of screen time.
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  Their cortisol levels change as a result of screen time.
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  They have all kinds of stuff going on in their bodies and their brains
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  chemically,
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  hormonally,
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  physiologically,
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  neurobiologically.
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  I know that's a lot of allies,
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  but
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  all of that is relevant.
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  So when we,
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  we know,
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  when we take that away.
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  You're essentially,
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  and I don't mean to be alarming,
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  especially if you haven't read the book and if you don't know about this stuff,
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  but
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  this is an addiction
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  just like drugs,
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  just like alcohol,
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  just like cigarettes,
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  just like gambling,
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  just like shopping,
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  just like sex,
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  all the addictions,
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  all the vices that we have in the world,
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  screens are exactly the same.
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  And so your kids are essentially going to go through withdrawal.
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  And are withdrawal symptoms fun to any
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  substance?
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  No,
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  they are not.
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  So your kids are going to be reeling from this to some degree,
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  maybe not
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  terribly,
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  but to some degree,
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  be prepared for that.
• 9:53
  The second thought is
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  the book talks about
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  going
• 9:57
  at
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  a very intentional
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  pace and process here.
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  In other words,
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  if you start implementing the child-centered play therapy principles,
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  you said you've been implementing 4 pillars,
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  that's going to be a huge help to you as you do this
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  because you're going to need to validate your child's feelings.
• 10:14
  You don't need to reflect them,
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  that they're upset,
• 10:17
  that they're confused,
• 10:18
  that they're frustrated,
• 10:19
  that they're angry,
• 10:21
  that they're sad,
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  that they're grieving.
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  All of those emotions are possible and relevant,
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  so you're going to use reflecting feelings.
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  You're going to use limit setting.
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  You really want to be on screens right now,
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  but
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  you have an hour a day and you've already used your hour.
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  You can choose to have more time tomorrow.
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  That's the ACT limit setting process.
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  That's going to be very important for making sure the child understands the limits.
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  Then you're going to give choices.
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  That may be how you work your chores in,
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  Mariah.
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  So,
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  you can choose to
• 10:57
  Do
• 10:59
  I don't know.
• 11:00
  Gosh,
• 11:00
  yard work.
• 11:01
  You didn't tell me how old your kids are,
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  did you?
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  No,
• 11:03
  you didn't.
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  So,
• 11:04
  I'm not really sure exactly how old your kids are.
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  Yard work may not be an option,
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  but
• 11:08
  in my,
• 11:08
  in my world,
• 11:09
  yard work is an option for my almost 17-year-old.
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  So
• 11:12
  you can choose to do yard work or you can choose to vacuum.
• 11:15
  You can choose to wash windows or you can choose to do the dishes.
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  You can choose to whatever.
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  There are ways that you can provide empowerment choices.
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  That help the child feel that they have some measure of control
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  that's tied to their screens.
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  So
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  you're going to earn 30 minutes of screen time
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  for 30 minutes of chores.
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  So you can choose to do 30 minutes of chore A
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  or you can choose to do 30 minutes of chore B,
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  which do you choose?
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  And then that earns them 30 minutes of screen time.
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  So that is another way that you could use
• 11:47
  one of the
• 11:48
  child-centered play therapy principles and then encouragement.
• 11:51
  You know,
• 11:52
  a child's going to feel pretty deflated
• 11:54
  when they're used to hours and hours of screens a day and
• 11:56
  all of a sudden they're not going to have it anymore.
• 11:58
  They're going to have to learn how to be creative.
• 12:00
  They're going to have to learn how to be imaginative.
• 12:02
  They're going to have to learn to socialize.
• 12:04
  They're going to have to learn to engage.
• 12:06
  It's actually going to reset their nervous system.
• 12:09
  They'll they'll actually be able to move into rest and
• 12:10
  digest instead of fight and flight all the time.
• 12:13
  They'll probably sleep better.
• 12:14
  They'll probably interact better.
• 12:16
  They'll probably communicate better.
• 12:17
  There's going to be all of these positive changes on the other side of it,
• 12:20
  but it doesn't make it easy in the meantime.
• 12:22
  So we're going to use a lot of encouragement.
• 12:25
  You got it.
• 12:26
  You did it.
• 12:27
  You figured it out.
• 12:28
  You knew what to do.
• 12:29
  You had a plan.
• 12:30
  In everyday life as they're doing things.
• 12:34
  They're going to need to hear
• 12:35
  the encouragement and the esteem building responses.
• 12:38
  So that's how you can use child-centered play therapy
• 12:40
  principles as you transition into less screen time.
• 12:45
  And
• 12:46
  As far as how to explain it.
• 12:49
  One of the most important things that I've said to our son since he was 6 years old,
• 12:54
  that's when all this began.
• 12:56
  He was 6 years old,
• 12:58
  and when I started doing research and started reading about this
• 13:01
  and seeing all the articles and seeing everything coming out,
• 13:03
  and
• 13:04
  I was just shocked,
• 13:05
  horrified actually,
• 13:06
  that
• 13:07
  I was onto something.
• 13:08
  Like screens are bad for kids.
• 13:10
  Look at all this stuff that I'm finding.
• 13:12
  And that was a decade ago,
• 13:13
  and there's only more.
• 13:14
  That has come out.
• 13:15
  I mean,
• 13:15
  just recently,
• 13:16
  last week,
• 13:17
  a huge study came out
• 13:18
  about how shorts,
• 13:19
  reels,
• 13:20
  and TikTok,
• 13:21
  it's literally like damaging children.
• 13:23
  And there was this whole huge research study that came out about that.
• 13:27
  More and more and more is coming out.
• 13:28
  So,
• 13:29
  we know how bad it is.
• 13:31
  One of the things that I started saying to my son
• 13:33
  for the last 10 years,
• 13:34
  but it's been consistent.
• 13:38
  You really want to be on screens,
• 13:40
  but what's my job?
• 13:42
  And
• 13:43
  he,
• 13:44
  we'd obviously had this discussion enough that he knew the answer.
• 13:47
  But
• 13:48
  when you start,
• 13:48
  you say,
• 13:49
  it's my job as your mom to keep you safe.
• 13:52
  So then when I would say,
• 13:53
  you really wish you could have more screen time,
• 13:55
  but what's my job?
• 13:56
  And he would roll his eyes and he would sigh
• 13:58
  and he would slump his shoulders and he would go
• 14:01
  to keep me safe,
• 14:03
  begrudgingly with lament,
• 14:05
  and I would say,
• 14:06
  so would I be doing my job?
• 14:09
  If I let you have screens all the time.
• 14:12
  No,
• 14:12
  but
• 14:13
  you really wish you could have more,
• 14:15
  but it's my job to keep you safe,
• 14:17
  and screens aren't safe.
• 14:19
  No child can argue
• 14:21
  their way out of
• 14:22
  needing to be kept safe.
• 14:23
  They may not like it.
• 14:25
  They may fight it.
• 14:26
  They may give you all the reasons why it's stupid.
• 14:28
  All my friends can have their phone whenever they want.
• 14:30
  All my friends play video games every second,
• 14:32
  blah blah blah.
• 14:33
  OK.
• 14:34
  But
• 14:35
  that's another phrase that I implemented with my son.
• 14:37
  What's your last name?
• 14:39
  He would go,
• 14:40
  Hicks,
• 14:41
  and I would say.
• 14:43
  What do we do in the Hicks household?
• 14:46
  You don't let me have screens.
• 14:48
  Um,
• 14:49
  so your last name is Hicks,
• 14:50
  so you don't get as much screens as your as your friends do.
• 14:54
  Because it was a household rule,
• 14:56
  it became very clear
• 14:57
  in the Hicks household,
• 14:58
  we do things differently than other households.
• 15:01
  That's another thing kids can understand.
• 15:04
  So safety
• 15:05
  and household expectations
• 15:07
  are the things that you fall back on.
• 15:10
  So,
• 15:10
  how do you explain it to them exactly like that?
• 15:12
  It's my job to keep you safe and screens are not safe for your brain.
• 15:16
  All right,
• 15:17
  fun pop quiz.
• 15:17
  I pop quiz my clinicians all the time on the other podcasts.
• 15:20
  I don't really do a whole lot of pop quizzes on the parenting,
• 15:23
  but it's just for fun.
• 15:24
  So,
• 15:25
  at what age?
• 15:27
  Do brains finally stop developing?
• 15:30
  So children's brains continue to develop through the age of what?
• 15:35
  For those of you that scream 25 at me,
• 15:37
  that's a high 5.
• 15:39
  25 years old
• 15:40
  is when the brain finally stops developing.
• 15:43
  So let's be real clear,
• 15:44
  my almost 17-year-old still has 8 years left of brain development.
• 15:49
  We're not talking,
• 15:50
  you get your kid to where they can drive and then you can just be hands off and say,
• 15:53
  OK,
• 15:54
  well,
• 15:54
  I don't need to worry about how often they're on screens anymore because
• 15:57
  they can drive,
• 15:57
  they're almost an adult.
• 15:59
  Until 25,
• 16:00
  the brain is still in development.
• 16:02
  And guess what?
• 16:02
  The brain needs to be protected
• 16:05
  during development.
• 16:06
  So in an effort to protect our kids' brains through 25,
• 16:10
  by the way,
• 16:11
  we have to keep them safe,
• 16:12
  and the way that we keep them safe is we limit screen time.
• 16:16
  And it's not saying they can't have any.
• 16:18
  It's not saying that we have to govern every second,
• 16:20
  but we absolutely need to limit it.
• 16:22
  We need to think about what they're having access to.
• 16:25
  Social media,
• 16:27
  no kid should have access to that.
• 16:28
  Roblox,
• 16:29
  no kid should have access to that.
• 16:32
  Really
• 16:33
  intense video games,
• 16:34
  no kid should have access to that.
• 16:36
  No kid should.
• 16:39
  Have access to most of the stuff that they do,
• 16:40
  to be honest with you,
• 16:41
  YouTube videos.
• 16:43
  On the front lines of this y'all,
• 16:45
  I,
• 16:45
  I know
• 16:46
  that
• 16:46
  you are not therapists.
• 16:48
  Most
• 16:49
  of you,
• 16:49
  I would assume,
• 16:50
  are not therapists.
• 16:51
  For 21 years,
• 16:53
  I have had kid after kid after kid after kid come into my office
• 16:58
  and become a client.
• 17:00
  And I'm on the front line of this every day.
• 17:03
  I see the fallout
• 17:05
  of screen addiction.
• 17:06
  I see the fallout of device overuse.
• 17:10
  You all probably don't,
• 17:11
  and I would thank God for that honestly because it's not pleasant and it's not fun.
• 17:16
  Every single day a kid walks into my playroom
• 17:19
  and I can see
• 17:20
  the impact that screens have on them.
• 17:22
  At all ages,
• 17:23
  by the way.
• 17:25
  It doesn't take more than a simple Google search
• 17:28
  to see how the suicide rates have spiked,
• 17:30
  to see how
• 17:31
  childhood.
• 17:33
  Prescriptions
• 17:34
  for mental health issues
• 17:36
  have spiked 3,000%,
• 17:37
  by the way.
• 17:38
  The fancy word for it is psychopharmacological,
• 17:40
  which you don't need to worry about that other than
• 17:43
  it's a mental health issue,
• 17:44
  and they have been prescribed medicine for it.
• 17:47
  So psychopharmacological,
• 17:48
  fancy word,
• 17:49
  3,000% increase.
• 17:51
  In minors.
• 17:53
  Why?
• 17:53
  Because they're on screens all day long,
• 17:55
  suicide rate
• 17:56
  through the roof,
• 17:57
  depression and anxiety through the roof,
• 18:00
  lack of attention in school,
• 18:01
  through the roof,
• 18:02
  failing grades through the roof.
• 18:04
  You name the issue that we're dealing with right now,
• 18:07
  it can be traced back to screens.
• 18:10
  So this isn't to scare you.
• 18:11
  It,
• 18:11
  I mean,
• 18:12
  it probably is scaring you,
• 18:13
  but sometimes fear is a really healthy motivator.
• 18:16
  You can channel your fear into productivity.
• 18:19
  This is to help you understand how important this is.
• 18:22
  So Mariah,
• 18:23
  I mean,
• 18:23
  you're feeling the weight of it.
• 18:24
  I've been feeling the weight of it for a decade.
• 18:26
  I wrote a book about it.
• 18:27
  I'm actually going to do a 2nd edition soon.
• 18:29
  We,
• 18:30
  we have a lot riding on this.
• 18:31
  This,
• 18:31
  these are our kids,
• 18:33
  and
• 18:34
  we should be really angry
• 18:35
  at the way that they are being used as pawns
• 18:39
  because
• 18:39
  I don't have time to get into that.
• 18:40
  But I mean,
• 18:41
  gosh,
• 18:41
  look at the industry
• 18:43
  and you'll see why.
• 18:45
  Kids are dealing with what they're dealing with.
• 18:46
  It's all intentional.
• 18:48
  None of this is happenstance.
• 18:50
  So we have to be the defense.
• 18:52
  We have to put a line in the sand and say,
• 18:54
  I am your parent.
• 18:56
  I love you.
• 18:56
  I care about you.
• 18:57
  I will not
• 18:59
  let these bad things happen to you.
• 19:01
  I've had so many conversations with my son over the years.
• 19:04
  I mean,
• 19:05
  at every stage.
• 19:08
  I do not want
• 19:10
  things to happen to you
• 19:11
  that we will never be able to undo.
• 19:14
  I do not want you to go through things that we will never be able to undo.
• 19:18
  I do not want you exposed to things that we will never be able to undo.
• 19:22
  And he goes,
• 19:23
  I know
• 19:24
  he doesn't always like it,
• 19:25
  but he gets it.
• 19:28
  And so we have to be very open.
• 19:29
  We have to be very honest,
• 19:30
  very transparent,
• 19:31
  very clear with our kids.
• 19:32
  It is my job to keep you safe,
• 19:34
  and it is not safe for you.
• 19:37
  And
• 19:37
  your brain can't handle it.
• 19:39
  That's what I've always said to my son.
• 19:41
  It is not that you are the problem,
• 19:44
  your brain can't handle it.
• 19:47
  It's not your fault.
• 19:48
  There's nothing wrong with you.
• 19:50
  You didn't do anything you shouldn't have.
• 19:52
  Your brain is still growing and it's going to be growing for a long time,
• 19:56
  and your brain can't handle
• 19:58
  this kind of stimulus.
• 20:02
  And that's something that a kid can cling to,
• 20:05
  and
• 20:05
  these are the rules in the Hicks household.
• 20:08
  This is what we believe.
• 20:09
  This is how we operate.
• 20:10
  This is what we do.
• 20:11
  I can't control what other families do.
• 20:13
  I've said that to my kids so many times too.
• 20:15
  Baby.
• 20:16
  I wish that I could go tell your friend's mom
• 20:19
  how bad
• 20:20
  that is for him.
• 20:21
  I wish I could call her up right now
• 20:23
  and tell her everything that I know because I bet
• 20:25
  she would change the way that she's parenting him,
• 20:27
  but that's not my place.
• 20:28
  My place is to take care of you,
• 20:30
  and I'm taking care of you.
• 20:31
  I can't control what they do.
• 20:32
  I wish I could.
• 20:33
  I wish I could
• 20:34
  scream it from the rooftops,
• 20:36
  how bad screens are.
• 20:38
  But
• 20:38
  that's not my place.
• 20:39
  My place is to take care of you.
• 20:42
  So we have to have these kind of talking points that we can share with our kids,
• 20:45
  and they need to be genuine and they need to
• 20:46
  be honest and they need to be age appropriate.
• 20:49
  And our kids will get it because kids understand being kept safe.
• 20:53
  So we,
• 20:54
  we capitalize on that need.
• 20:55
  They know they need to be kept safe,
• 20:57
  and that's what we're going to do as parents.
• 20:59
  So I love y'all.
• 21:00
  Keep loving on your kids.
• 21:01
  If you have follow-up questions,
• 21:02
  if you have other stuff that you want me to cover,
• 21:04
  please reach out to me,
• 21:05
  brenna@thekidcounselor.com
• 21:07
  Hope you have a great week.
• 21:07
  We'll talk soon.
• 21:08
  Bye.
• 21:09
  Thank you for listening to
• 21:11
  the Play Therapy Parenting Podcast with Dr. Brenna Hicks.
• 21:15
  For more episodes and just subscribe to our newsletter,
• 21:18
  please go to www.playtherapyparenting.com.