Latest / BREAK/FIX the Motorsports & Vehicle Enthusiast Variety Show / Brake Smarter, Not Harder: Performance Braking with Porterfield's Wendy Charlier

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Brake Smarter, Not Harder: Performance Braking with Porterfield's Wendy Charlier · BREAK/FIX the Motorsports & Vehicle Enthusiast Variety Show

• 0:00
  Grand Touring Motorsports started as a social group of car enthusiasts,
• 0:04
  but we've expanded into all sorts of motorsports disciplines, and we
• 0:08
  want to share our stories with you.
• 0:10
  Years of racing, wrenching, and motorsports experience brings
• 0:13
  together a top notch collection of knowledge and information
• 0:17
  through our podcast, Brake Fix.
• 0:19
  When you first start out in motorsports, the essentials are always the same.
• 0:26
  Better brake pads, stickier tires, and more seat time.
• 0:29
  For those of you who have had the pleasure of riding with one of
• 0:33
  our distinguished GTM ers known as Crutch, who is on in Season 1,
• 0:37
  you know that he has a reputation.
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  It isn't for how fast his cars are, because they aren't, but he has
• 0:43
  a reputation for dropping anchor.
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  He brakes hard, he brakes late, and because he has confidence in
• 0:49
  his equipment, He can do this.
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  He only has such confidence because he has invested the time and
• 0:56
  research into upgrading his brakes.
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  New brake pads alone aren't the answer because there are a few extras to consider
• 1:03
  when you're upgrading your brakes.
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  And with us tonight is Wendy Charlier, general manager for Porterfield Brakes
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  and industry leader in performance brakes, joining us for a technical
• 1:14
  chat about what's stopping you.
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  So welcome to Brake Fix, Wendy.
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  Hi.
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  Thanks for having me.
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  So like all good break fix episodes, we like to start off with an origin story.
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  So tell us about the who, what, when and where of Porterfield and where does the
• 1:28
  brand come from in the company history?
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  So back in the late eighties, Andy Porterfield was
• 1:34
  approached by Feroto Racing.
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  Andy was a very prolific racer for many years, raced from the fifties until 2012.
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  And they had just asked, Hey, we want to start bringing our pads to America.
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  Would you be a distributor for us?
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  And from there, he just kept adding on more lines, formulated his own line.
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  And that's how we get the Porterfield brand.
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  And then we're just a distributor for a lot of other trusted companies
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  within the racing industry.
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  So when did Porterfield get started?
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  1986.
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  Longstanding history there, almost 40 years in the business.
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  So that's really cool.
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  So you guys know everything about brakes.
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  Well, there's a lot to know.
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  I definitely take the time to do some research, to get to know the products.
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  How they kind of interact as the new technology comes out.
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  So there's always a lot more that can be known.
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  I try to know as much as I can possibly know.
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  Well, there's a lot of people that say, especially in the racing world,
• 2:30
  what brakes, what good are those?
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  All they do is slow you down.
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  All joking aside, there's a lot of other people that Don't really understand
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  how the mechanics of brakes work.
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  I press a pedal and the car slows down.
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  There's a lot of different things happening in that simple sequence.
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  So let's talk a little bit about how brake systems work, how ABS works kind of at a
• 2:50
  general level to get people up to speed.
• 2:52
  Yeah.
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  I mean, it, it is, you know, you press the brake pedal, it pushes a piston into
• 2:56
  the, in the master cylinder, which pushes the fluid through the brake lines, whether
• 3:00
  that's the hard line at the very beginning or towards the caliper and then the actual
• 3:04
  either braided line or the rubber hose.
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  Pushes that towards the caliper, and then that fluid pushes the piston
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  out, which then pushes the pad up against the rotor surface, creating
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  the stop and anti-lock braking systems.
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  I mean, they've been around since the eighties.
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  How did those exactly work?
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  So a BS works by releasing and reapplying or pumping the brakes
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  to a wheel in heavy braking.
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  There's a sensor that detects any kind of locking within the
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  brake system or at the wheel.
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  It can help benefit if there's lockup issues or flat spine tires,
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  things like that in racing, but that's really where like the brake
• 3:38
  finesse kind of comes into play.
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  And, you know, you would try not to kind of engage your ABS,
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  generally speaking in a race car.
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  That's a very true statement.
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  A lot of people nowadays didn't drive or didn't grow up with, or don't
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  drive vehicles that are pre ABS cars.
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  I was fortunate enough to learn on a pre ABS car, which meant that there
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  was another driving technique that is rarely used anymore in racing
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  known as threshold braking, which is the precursor to ABS, knowing how.
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  much.
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  You could squeeze the pedal or even pump the brakes to get it to
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  not lock up going into a corner.
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  I still enjoy driving cars without abs.
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  Again, I grew up without those nannies, let's call them what they are in
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  place, but they are essential nowadays for your everyday car, especially
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  in bad weather conditions and things like that, where it all happens so
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  quickly, it's very hard to react.
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  So that being said, you mentioned breaking is more complicated than just
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  pressing a pedal and something happens.
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  There's a lot of terminology around breaking.
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  Sometimes people have misconceptions about what these terms mean.
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  And so I kind of want to quickly go through what they are, kind
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  of explain what they are, maybe do some myth busting here.
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  So the terms in question are fade, warping, bedding.
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  uneven wear, boil back, knock back.
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  And then we can even talk a little bit more about how traction
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  control and stability control plays into the braking system.
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  Yeah.
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  So the fade is basically a loss of frictional resistance due to meeting
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  the limits or the capabilities of the friction materials that you're using.
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  The pedal will remain firm, but more pedal pressure would be needed.
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  And that's obviously something you want to avoid in a race car situation.
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  So you would make sure that the temperature ranges are matching up
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  to what you're seeing in your car.
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  So it's very important to keep getting the data while you're racing as well.
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  A lot of people forget to gather data.
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  And we'll talk a little bit more about the heat ranges of pads as we
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  go along, but fade comes from the fact that you've basically superheated
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  the pad and it can no longer create any grip on the rotor, right?
• 5:35
  Correct.
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  So what about warping?
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  That one comes up a lot.
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  Warping a real thing, can you really warp a rotor?
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  I think the misconception is that when people say I warped a rotor, they're
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  thinking that they warped the whole rotor.
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  A rotor is very rigid and very solid as a cast iron piece.
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  When you warp a rotor, you're warping the surface area, the
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  part that the pad contacts.
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  Not the whole rotor itself.
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  Sometimes warping is not exactly what happens.
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  Sometimes it's uneven pad transfer that people associate
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  with being a warping problem.
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  But rotors can absolutely warp the front surface area, and that's just
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  again due to rapid heat generation.
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  It just rapidly happens where you're rapidly rising the temperature
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  beyond its capabilities at a warp.
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  Sometimes if you duct it wrong, we'll talk about that probably later, if
• 6:24
  it's ducted wrong and you're cooling portions of the rotor and not other
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  portions of the rotor that can cause some warping because there's a given
• 6:30
  tank with the temperature ranges.
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  Causes cracking too.
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  And there's other things that can occur as well.
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  Like you can create grooves in the rotor surface.
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  I've also seen rotors become glazed because if you think about
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  it, as the metals are heating up, expanding, contracting and cooling
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  back down, you're almost going through like a forging process.
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  If you've ever seen like a knife being made, you know, it's not getting quenched.
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  That's probably one of the worst things you can do, probably throw water on the
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  rotors, you know, those kinds of things.
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  But there's a whole process to the metallurgy there that people often forget.
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  And this is what makes it super complicated.
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  My pet peeve is when people think.
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  Throw that phrase, my rotors are warped around a lot, not knowing what it
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  really means to your point, that big cast iron rotor, it's hard to make it a
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  big wavy shape or an exaggerated warp.
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  There's something else going on there.
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  In the old days, you could quote unquote, turn a rotor, put it on a
• 7:18
  lathe, basically to re smooth it out.
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  Is that still the case now with all these specialty cross drilled and
• 7:24
  slotted rotors and things like that?
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  You can absolutely still turn a rotor rotors tend to be
• 7:30
  more throw away items as well.
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  Especially when we're talking in a racing field, once a rotor is maxed out
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  or having that issue where you would want to turn it, it's already done.
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  You're better off just starting with a new surface and a new rotor altogether.
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  So for the guys that go to the track and are changing their pads, they're
• 7:48
  in the paddock, you know, Hey, I got my race pads in a box, just got a
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  brand new, they smell great, right?
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  They throw them on the car.
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  And those of us that have been around the block a few times go, Hey,
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  aren't you going to bed those in?
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  Inevitably, the driver goes, what, what do you mean bed my pads?
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  What are you talking about?
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  So why don't you walk us through what that process is really all about.
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  Yeah.
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  Bedding is very, very important, especially mostly when you're talking
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  about race pads, just because in the street applications, a lot of
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  times pads are designed to be pre bedded because obviously skill sets.
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  For different people are not the same as they would be for track pads.
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  So track pads, very, very, very important to bed in the pads and the specific
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  bed in procedure can vary by brand.
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  They know what's best for their applications.
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  In our opinion, all bed ins should be a gradual increase in
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  temperature over the breaking styles.
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  It should never be 100 percent stop from 60 to 0.
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  eight times.
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  That is too rapid.
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  You want to use maybe 60 percent pedal pressure and do 60 to 20 a couple of times
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  and then do, you're gradually increasing the pressure that you're applying
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  to the pedal as well as increasing the speed at which you're slowing.
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  That way you can gradually bring it up to that max point.
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  And what you're doing is you're laying a layer of.
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  what they call adherent friction.
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  So when you talk about brake pads, there's two main friction types that are playing
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  a role in your overall braking, which is abrasive friction and adherent friction.
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  It's important that you lay that layer of adherent friction down there because
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  it sets the foundation for your braking.
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  Or all future breaking and without that, you're going to get those uneven
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  pad deposits resulting in vibration and the war being thought process because
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  it's not ever going to lay properly.
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  So, abrasive friction breaks down when it contacts the disc much like.
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  Sandpaper is abrasive friction.
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  You scrape it across someplace and it rubs away.
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  And so if you had a pad that was mostly abrasive friction, it would
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  wear out more quickly because it's just, you know, going along, it needs
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  that adherent friction to wear longer.
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  Conversely, the adherent friction lays down the thin
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  layer of material on the discs.
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  And it bonds and reforms and comes apart.
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  If a pad was just adherent friction, or mostly adherent friction, then
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  the temperature ranges would not be as high, because that's not
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  what it's really designed for.
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  It's designed to be the body of the abrasive friction, and help it do its job.
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  The way that the companies make different friction levels, and different types
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  of pads, and how they feel different.
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  is that mixture of that balance between adherent and abrasive.
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  Obviously, other components that go into it.
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  But those two are the bigger primary factors.
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  A top tip from our paddock has always been, even with Porterfield brakes, which
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  we've been using for years and other brands, to get that initial glaze, the
• 10:38
  manufacturing kind of coating off of them.
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  We grab them and we run them on the asphalt to basically scuff them in
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  before they ever touch the rotor, which inevitably keeps you from running into the
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  back of somebody on the grid because your pedal is kind of soft and the pads don't
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  grab because they're not bedded in yet.
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  But having them pre scuffed Actually makes it to your point where then
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  you can go into turn one and break normally in the next couple of
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  turns and go deeper and go deeper.
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  And by your third lap, pads are ready to go.
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  You're ready to rock, you know, 11 tenths or 13 tenths of your driving ability.
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  And the pads will always be there, always be ready.
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  So that's a top tip from our paddock, scuff those pads on the asphalt before you
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  put them against your brand new rotors.
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  Uneven wear.
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  You hear that term sometimes people complain, I got uneven pads.
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  I'm going to flip them over.
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  I'm going to put them back in the opposite way.
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  Where does uneven wear come from on the pad?
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  So generally speaking, it always comes from the caliper.
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  Whether the caliper is flexing, which is what could cause that uneven wear.
• 11:34
  Whether the piston is not actuating properly, that could be due to a seal
• 11:39
  that's gone bad, any kind of fluid flow issue, things like that, it's generally
• 11:44
  related directly to the caliper.
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  Obviously there can be other factors, like you put a caliper kit on there
• 11:49
  that didn't come there, like maybe you didn't put it at the right
• 11:52
  angle or kind of mount it correctly.
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  It could be the pads in the formulation that part is very rare.
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  Like 90 percent of the time when I'm talking to customers and I'm seeing this
• 12:02
  kind of uneven taper wear, things like that, it's usually related to the caliper.
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  So I've noticed this a lot on multi piston calipers.
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  There's tons of them out there, Brembos, Alcons, Wilwoods, et cetera.
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  I predominantly run Brembo calipers, Porsche ones on my vehicles.
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  On the leading edge of the pad, The way those Brembo calipers are constructed, the
• 12:23
  lower two pistons seem to actuate quicker than the top two, just the way the fluid
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  moves through that monoblock caliper.
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  I find myself at the end of the day, having to flip my pads over so that
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  they will wear back straight because my bottom two pistons basically eat the
• 12:38
  pad more quickly than the top two do.
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  So something to be mindful of, you know, keeping an eye on your pads and
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  how they're wearing on your vehicle.
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  For sure.
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  And then, like you said, flipping them, you know, changing them inner
• 12:49
  to outer, left to right, those kind of things help you get that more
• 12:52
  even use out of the whole brick pad.
• 12:54
  Yeah.
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  You don't want to throw away the pads, you know, they're, they're
• 12:56
  not totally consumed yet, right?
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  They're expensive enough.
• 13:00
  You got to keep, you got to get every flap out of them you can.
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  So now there's two other terms and they kind of go hand in hand.
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  One is lesser known than the other.
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  called boil back.
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  And then there's knockback.
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  I've heard knockback all the time.
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  I had knockback in my BMW, which was super annoying.
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  So let's kind of dissect what these two are and what they mean.
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  So boil back, I was kind of like, Hmm, that's not a term that
• 13:21
  I've heard in it, but within the industry, there's inevitably Verbiage
• 13:25
  that I'm not used to hearing.
• 13:26
  I'm used to hearing it a certain way.
• 13:27
  Are you referring to like a vapor lock situation?
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  When you get to fade and the pads are getting so hot, it's transmitting the
• 13:33
  heat back through the caliper, right?
• 13:36
  But the fluid is basically boiling back into the master cylinder.
• 13:40
  And if you have a car that shares a reservoir, like you have a hydraulic
• 13:44
  clutch system, then the clutch starts to suffer and it gets very, very
• 13:47
  soft because the fluid is boiling back through the entire system,
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  which is different than knockback.
• 13:53
  Not exactly like vapor lock, but it's basically boiling your brake fluid, which
• 13:57
  causes a mass amount of problems I got.
• 13:59
  Okay.
• 14:00
  Well, I was like thinking about this in terms of how it would make sense.
• 14:03
  I knew it had to be overheated.
• 14:04
  The brake fluid because knockback now that is a very technical type of situation.
• 14:09
  And so, and trying to definitely trigger or pinpoint the exact things
• 14:14
  that you can do to kind of eliminate knockback is a little bit more tricky.
• 14:18
  Commonly, you would see it coming out of the S's prior to a turn,
• 14:23
  and that's because racing tracks are not generally perfectly flat.
• 14:27
  So sometimes you'll have inclines or declines and things like that.
• 14:30
  And S's, as you go through them, you're shifting the weight of the vehicle left
• 14:34
  to right, and it causes inclinations.
• 14:36
  flex.
• 14:37
  And so then the hub and wheel bearing are deflecting.
• 14:40
  And so then when that happens, the caliper is mounted on a rigid surface.
• 14:46
  And so that doesn't move as much as say the hub and wheel bearing are.
• 14:50
  And so that causes the rotor to hit the pads and push them back.
• 14:54
  So then now the pistons are going back.
• 14:57
  Then when you go to break the next time, as you come out of that, you're not aware.
• 15:01
  And now everything has pushed back.
• 15:03
  And so you push the pedal and now the pedal goes to the floor much
• 15:06
  further than you were anticipating.
• 15:08
  And you're trying to make this turn into the corner.
• 15:11
  So the best way to kind of help eliminate that is you can typically know as
• 15:15
  you're going around the track, which sections are going to have that happen.
• 15:20
  And you just tap it after you come out of that section prior to going to the corner,
• 15:24
  that's causing the issue that'll get the pads back aligned and where they need
• 15:28
  to be before you need to make that stop.
• 15:30
  Yeah.
• 15:30
  But obviously looking at how you can better make the system more rigid,
• 15:36
  whether that's also getting like anti knockback springs, which are
• 15:39
  not always something that you can do, depending on the calipers that you're
• 15:43
  using, things like that'll help.
• 15:45
  It's worse.
• 15:46
  The knockback, the larger the outside diameter of the rotor is just because
• 15:50
  of the size and how much it'll deflect more than if it's smaller.
• 15:54
  And your tip was right on the money.
• 15:56
  For those of us that suffer from knockback, one of the tricks that we
• 16:01
  have to learn is how to left foot brake.
• 16:03
  Getting in preparation, especially going down a long straightaway, something
• 16:05
  like VIR, Watkins Glen, you're tapping that brake pedal with your left foot,
• 16:10
  basically pumping the brakes back up, making sure that your pads are there.
• 16:14
  So when you go into turn one at 120 miles an hour, the car actually stops.
• 16:18
  The first time it happened to me with my BMW was scary, but then I
• 16:21
  was like, Oh, I know what this is.
• 16:22
  I know exactly what I need to do.
• 16:24
  This is annoying, but it is part of driving that car.
• 16:27
  So, you know, it is what it is.
• 16:29
  Other BMW owners I've met have complained about, man, this car
• 16:33
  really chews up rear pads a lot.
• 16:36
  What the heck is going on?
• 16:37
  I've answered that question probably more times than I'd like to.
• 16:40
  And it actually goes back to stability control and traction control.
• 16:43
  So how are those tied to the brakes?
• 16:46
  Yeah, again, like you had said, like the nanny kind of system as far as like ABS
• 16:50
  would be to brakes to traction control is to steering and things like that and
• 16:54
  controlling how the car is maneuvering and being able to stay in a more
• 16:59
  controlled manner than being more loose.
• 17:01
  Yeah.
• 17:01
  And a lot of these newer systems leverage the rear brakes because they're not
• 17:05
  nearly as severe in terms of bite, right?
• 17:07
  The front end is doing 80 percent of the braking.
• 17:09
  They use those rear brakes to stabilize the vehicle.
• 17:12
  So by applying a little bit of break in a corner or applying both, they can settle
• 17:16
  the car down and keep it from being in a skid or stepping out, things like that.
• 17:20
  So folks that have those systems enabled, they're chewing up rear pads all the time.
• 17:25
  And so that's the result of all of that.
• 17:26
  Yeah.
• 17:27
  It keeps it from transferring too much of the weight to the front.
• 17:30
  But I think a lot of people, admittedly, if I can offer another tip is
• 17:35
  absolutely put race pads in the rear.
• 17:37
  I can't tell you how many times people are like, ah, it's the rear.
• 17:39
  It doesn't do anything.
• 17:41
  Absolutely.
• 17:41
  It does something.
• 17:45
  It helps to keep the car more balanced.
• 17:47
  If you have only breaking in the front and the rears just give out, you're going
• 17:51
  to get a lot more nosedive and where the pads a lot more, you know, be a little
• 17:55
  bit harder to steer and things like that.
• 17:57
  So since you brought that up, it's a really good point.
• 17:59
  A lot of people are of the idea or the assumption that I need to put
• 18:02
  the same compound all the way around.
• 18:05
  And depending on the car and correct me if I'm wrong, you actually want to offset the
• 18:10
  pads to create a natural bias, especially if you don't have a brake bias controller
• 18:15
  to offset the front to the rear.
• 18:17
  You're absolutely correct.
• 18:18
  Yes.
• 18:18
  In most cases, I would say you should always go with the front.
• 18:21
  go with a lesser friction in the rear for many reasons, the balance
• 18:25
  reason, but also temperature ranges.
• 18:28
  So the higher the friction, the higher the torque, the higher the temperature
• 18:32
  range it needs to be to operate well.
• 18:35
  So getting that temperature range to six, 700 degrees on a front pad is much
• 18:40
  easier than getting that in the rear.
• 18:43
  And you're not going to get the benefit of that higher friction, higher torque.
• 18:47
  If it's in the rear and not being up to temperature, you're actually
• 18:50
  going to do yourself a disservice.
• 18:51
  So having something with lesser friction, A, it keeps the car more
• 18:55
  balanced and B, that friction level will come in at that lower temperature
• 18:59
  that your rear is actually seen.
• 19:01
  Exactly.
• 19:02
  Yeah.
• 19:02
  If you put on, let's say, Our four E's are part of field pad all the way around
• 19:06
  or a DTC 60 from Hawk all the way around.
• 19:09
  It's going to be like having ice cubes in the back.
• 19:11
  If you're running the same pad in the front, you know, I've for years
• 19:15
  have biased my pads front to back.
• 19:17
  I always start with an entry level race pad because I want the longevity.
• 19:20
  I want the endurance of the pattern.
• 19:22
  I want to have to change them every 10 minutes, but upfront, yes, I'm
• 19:25
  running something super aggressive.
• 19:26
  It balances the car out.
• 19:28
  It keeps it from doing something weird.
• 19:29
  And rear brakes also react slower than the fronts because the brake
• 19:34
  lines are like eight times longer.
• 19:36
  So it takes a lot longer for the fluid to do its job, right?
• 19:39
  So you got to play into these natural mechanics when you're deciding don't just
• 19:43
  buy the same stuff for all four corners.
• 19:46
  So folks, if you thought that was technical, we're about to go a
• 19:49
  little bit deeper and talk about the importance or the betterness of
• 19:54
  certain parts of the braking system.
• 19:56
  So I want to talk first about brake fluid.
• 19:58
  I have gone through so many arguments with people about wet and dry and
• 20:02
  boiling temps and what all that means and what fluid you should use.
• 20:06
  And I'll just go by it, press stone off the shelf.
• 20:08
  You don't need that.
• 20:09
  castral SRF that hydraulic fluid you're putting in there.
• 20:12
  But there's a reason and a season for all of these different fluids.
• 20:16
  So let's talk about why brake fluid first and foremost is so important.
• 20:20
  So, well, obviously brake fluid is what actuates your equipment.
• 20:24
  So if you don't have good brake fluid and you're not getting the
• 20:27
  temperature ranges, That you need.
• 20:29
  So if you're boiling the brake fluid, you're going to get, like
• 20:31
  you said, potentially the oil back.
• 20:33
  But also if you have a spongy paddle or something like that,
• 20:37
  that's your brake fluid boiling.
• 20:38
  That's your car telling you that you've exceeded the limits of the
• 20:41
  brake fluid brake fluid, as we know, is hygroscopic, which means that it
• 20:46
  just it wants to attract moisture.
• 20:47
  It wants to absorb it.
• 20:49
  from the atmosphere.
• 20:50
  So that's why you have a dry and wet boiling point.
• 20:52
  But what most people don't understand is that the wet boiling point, while
• 20:57
  it might be very high, the wet doesn't come into effect until it has 3.
• 21:01
  7 percent water by volume, which can take a year or two in an OEM type car.
• 21:07
  So that's a lot of moisture that will have been absorbed.
• 21:10
  So most race cars, generally speaking, will not be seeing a wet temperature.
• 21:16
  You should be bleeding the system after every race.
• 21:19
  Ideally, you would be flushing the system.
• 21:22
  Some people who really go for it, obviously, when we work in a brake
• 21:25
  company, we would do it all the time, but definitely bleeding out
• 21:29
  the brake fluid, getting rid of that.
• 21:31
  Spent fluid that was in the caliper, things like that.
• 21:34
  Replacing it with some fresh stuff is always better, but yeah, the
• 21:37
  boiling point is very important.
• 21:39
  Mostly dry is the most important again, because you're not going
• 21:44
  to probably get it to that 3.
• 21:46
  7 percent water by volume.
• 21:48
  Now, if you get yourself one of those fancy little things that can tell you
• 21:51
  what your moisture level is, if you're brake fluid, then by all means, you're
• 21:54
  care about the wet boiling point.
• 21:56
  Obviously, it's a factor if you leave it in there for a long time,
• 21:59
  then you at least know that the wet boiling point is good and hot.
• 22:01
  If you overheat and boil the brake fluid, well, I talked about this
• 22:05
  a little bit ago about vapor lock.
• 22:07
  Basically, as you boil it, it creates bubbles.
• 22:10
  It can be trying to push through those bubbles versus pushing through the fluid.
• 22:15
  And so the pistons aren't actually activating because it's just bubbles.
• 22:19
  It's just air being pushed through.
• 22:21
  When you're choosing your brake fluid, how do you make the
• 22:24
  determination other than bipedal feel as to what you should be buying?
• 22:28
  Are there certain ways to gauge the temperatures, things you should be
• 22:31
  looking at, ways to do analysis and say, Hey, I'm right on the edge.
• 22:34
  You know, you never want to be close to red line on anything.
• 22:37
  So how do you make that decision or what to get?
• 22:40
  Knowing what the brake temperatures that you're seeing within the system, like
• 22:44
  how hot the caliper itself is getting will tell you a lot about what type of
• 22:48
  temperature the fluid obviously would not be as high as the caliper is getting
• 22:53
  most, I would say all of the racing brake fluid Motul 600, 660, anything
• 22:58
  that's racing oriented is always a good place to start and then whether or not
• 23:03
  you have to adjust Based on the ambient temperature outside, what tracks you're
• 23:08
  going to here on the West Coast, you can probably get away with some low level
• 23:13
  break fluid going up the streets of Willow, you know, it's just meandering
• 23:17
  through but like if you're at Laguna Seca.
• 23:19
  You're going to have to have something like the 660 or the
• 23:22
  cashroll or something like that.
• 23:23
  That is very taxi, like road, Atlanta, Sebring, those tracks all require
• 23:28
  the most of your brake system.
• 23:30
  So you need to be prepared.
• 23:31
  The different cars will have different needs and different
• 23:35
  drivers drive differently.
• 23:36
  I think the minimum is putting race quality brake fluid in there.
• 23:40
  And frankly, they just don't make any that are up to snuff.
• 23:44
  You know, if it's a real racing fluid and when you're looking at the
• 23:47
  big box store at all the different labels and brands and colors that
• 23:50
  exist, a lot of people just defer to the DOT number dot 3.4 and dot five.
• 23:56
  How do you know which one's, right?
• 23:57
  What does that even mean?
• 23:58
  Most people just go, oh, bigger number means better.
• 24:01
  Right?
• 24:02
  ? Well, the dot rating is really, it's, its resistance to moisture.
• 24:05
  So that's why dot five is a silicone based fluid because it's
• 24:09
  the most resistant to moisture.
• 24:11
  And so when we're talking about things not wanting to have a lot of
• 24:15
  water in there, that dot rating, it's just department of transportation.
• 24:18
  It says that it meets a certain parameter.
• 24:20
  And so that parameter means that it's most resistant to moisture and
• 24:25
  that at different levels, different temperatures and things like that.
• 24:28
  Which is great for a classic or collector card that sits a lot.
• 24:32
  You don't want to do brake fluid slushes all the time.
• 24:33
  But for a race car, the dot number really doesn't matter.
• 24:36
  It goes back to that dry boiling temperature again.
• 24:40
  Exactly.
• 24:40
  Yeah.
• 24:40
  You wouldn't run silicone because that doesn't have any temperature properties
• 24:44
  whatsoever, but it's just the highest one.
• 24:47
  And then like three is.
• 24:48
  Not so great.
• 24:49
  And a top tip that I learned, ask me how I know if you do have a shared clutch
• 24:54
  and brake reservoir system, try to find a way to separate your reservoirs.
• 25:00
  If you're running something heavy like Castrol SRF, because you will blow
• 25:05
  up clutch cylinders left and right, because they're not designed for the
• 25:08
  added hydraulic pressure that the upper echelon of racing brake fluids.
• 25:13
  Produce.
• 25:14
  So something to keep in mind.
• 25:15
  Again, ask me how I know.
• 25:19
  Let's move on.
• 25:20
  Let's talk about the importance of brake lines.
• 25:22
  You know, a lot of people say, I got to run out, I got to get these
• 25:24
  stainless steel braided brake lines.
• 25:26
  Why?
• 25:27
  Well, because the stainless steel brake lines will create a more firm
• 25:31
  pedal because there's no flex from with the rubber lines, not to mention
• 25:35
  the fact that over time, the rubber tends to kind of degrade and heat
• 25:39
  capabilities and things like that will be different with those as well.
• 25:42
  So stainless braided brake lines, if you can get them really makes a difference.
• 25:46
  We talk to all sorts of people all the time about the big brake upgrade,
• 25:50
  got to get the big brake kit.
• 25:52
  You know, you talk to a Miata owner, they say the more weight you take out, the
• 25:55
  stock brakes become the big brake kit.
• 25:56
  You know, you don't need it.
• 25:57
  There are different schools of thought on what caliper is the
• 26:01
  right caliper for your car.
• 26:03
  Is that really true?
• 26:04
  Is that a myth?
• 26:05
  We should be really looking at temperatures and pads and fluids
• 26:08
  instead of dealing with changing the mechanical part of this.
• 26:11
  I think anytime that you're trying to increase the horsepower of a car,
• 26:16
  then you should also be looking at the converse side of that and making sure that
• 26:19
  you're going to make those good stops.
• 26:21
  So I think if you're running the stock engine and everything on the vehicle
• 26:25
  is otherwise stock, the original brake calipers that are on there
• 26:29
  are probably going to be sufficient.
• 26:31
  Now that can change if it's You know, a single piston caliper, or it's that those
• 26:36
  floating styles that aren't very rigid and very well at taking that kind of abuse.
• 26:41
  And then that's when you would get into changing the brake system.
• 26:43
  If you're a serious racer and you're very much focused on increasing horsepower and
• 26:49
  decreasing your lap times and things like that, eventually you're going to probably
• 26:53
  run out of its ability to make any other additional changes to your braking system.
• 26:57
  As far as.
• 26:58
  Getting that extra friction materials help a lot, but can it
• 27:02
  always be better is the trick.
• 27:04
  So if you need it to be better, yeah, it can be better.
• 27:07
  A lot of times better is relative.
• 27:09
  So it's obviously very important to look at the piston sizes
• 27:13
  that you're getting on the kit.
• 27:16
  Whatever that you're getting and make sure that that piston size is going
• 27:19
  to net you more surface area force than the piston sizes you're currently
• 27:24
  running as well as the rotor size is a larger diameter than the current
• 27:29
  rotor that you're running because that will also give you more force.
• 27:32
  We didn't touch base on master cylinders and the importance of a
• 27:36
  properly selected master cylinder.
• 27:38
  Now, obviously, if you're running a car, that came from the factory.
• 27:43
  So your Mazda Miata, your Corvette, the engineers would have selected the proper
• 27:47
  size master cylinder for that application.
• 27:49
  But we've also talked about when you start changing things and
• 27:52
  putting different whatnots on there.
• 27:54
  I mean, I've heard of customers like, Oh, well, I pulled, you know,
• 27:57
  the front system off of this 911.
• 27:59
  I pulled the rear off of this 928 and I slapped it on there.
• 28:02
  Good to go.
• 28:03
  But you know, I'm having this pedal issue.
• 28:05
  And so typically what people don't think about is when you start changing
• 28:08
  that, it's not part of a kit where you've discussed with Wilwood or with
• 28:12
  Brembo or StopTech or somebody like the proper selection of a different
• 28:15
  master cylinder to go along with the change in the caliper that you're doing.
• 28:20
  Typically, if you, if you're having master cylinder issues, it has to do
• 28:24
  with how much fluid it's displacing.
• 28:26
  So smaller masses that are required a slightly longer pedal stroke
• 28:29
  to move the same amount of fluid.
• 28:31
  So like if you had a one inch, you would have a shorter pedal because
• 28:34
  it can push way more fluid through the system than a smaller one.
• 28:38
  However, you don't get the same amount of pressure.
• 28:40
  So you get more pressure with a smaller one.
• 28:42
  smaller, less pressure with the bigger.
• 28:44
  So it's just kind of depending on like, Oh, my pedals firm, but I'm
• 28:47
  not getting any stopping power.
• 28:48
  It's like, well, have a little bit longer pedal and you're going to get the
• 28:52
  pressure that you want to make that stop.
• 28:54
  So it's just a matter of figuring out what size would be best
• 28:57
  for that application as well.
• 28:59
  And that's very true.
• 29:00
  And in some of those cases, when you're doing these big break upgrades, you can
• 29:03
  get away with swapping out hardware.
• 29:06
  If it was something that was available from the factory, right?
• 29:09
  Let's say maybe you bought the base model Mustang and you go up to the GT breaks.
• 29:13
  Well, there's a really good chance.
• 29:14
  If you cross match the parts, the master cylinders are all the same from Ford.
• 29:18
  So you don't really need to switch it out.
• 29:20
  It's when you go from the two pot factory break to the six piston Alcon.
• 29:24
  Now you have 12 pistons up front that you're trying to move.
• 29:27
  You don't have enough mechanical pressure.
• 29:30
  To move all 12 pistons, like you did the four or the two that you had up front.
• 29:34
  And that's where the bigger discrepancy comes into play.
• 29:37
  But generally amongst the manufacturers, Oh, I had the base Corvette and
• 29:41
  I upgraded to zero six breaks.
• 29:42
  Yeah.
• 29:42
  You're probably pretty safe at that point to make that jump without having
• 29:46
  to change the rest of the hardware.
• 29:47
  Right.
• 29:48
  Right.
• 29:48
  So it's just, it's just a matter of like one more thing to check.
• 29:51
  If you're not getting out of the system, what you're hoping to get out.
• 29:55
  These are things that I would recommend, you know, when people
• 29:58
  are troubleshooting things, that's one of the things that I bring up.
• 30:01
  What size master cylinder are you running?
• 30:02
  What's the setup look like?
• 30:04
  That kind of thing.
• 30:05
  And then the last thing that I cannot explain to people enough is make sure that
• 30:10
  the pad you're getting from the new kit is at least as thick as your current system.
• 30:15
  I have had customers who have a 16 millimeter, a 15 millimeter
• 30:20
  OEM pad, and they switch to a kit that's 12 millimeters.
• 30:24
  And they say, gosh, you know, I put this kid on there and now I'm
• 30:27
  running through brake pads even more.
• 30:29
  And I said, well, you done took out six millimeters per
• 30:32
  caliper and yeah, that's a lot.
• 30:34
  And nothing else on the car changed, so it's still as heavy as it was before.
• 30:38
  And weight does play a major factor into the ability of those brakes to
• 30:43
  clamp down and slow the vehicle down.
• 30:44
  Sure.
• 30:45
  Yeah.
• 30:45
  3, 000 pound car, even though the brakes are set up larger on a larger car.
• 30:50
  So like, if you compare like a Miata to like a Cadillac, let's say, or
• 30:55
  Corvette even at 3000 pounds, and then the Miata over here at 26,
• 30:59
  24, depending on which model it is, you know, that's a big difference.
• 31:03
  And so that the OEM pads show that difference.
• 31:06
  That's why they're much smaller and different placed and things like that.
• 31:09
  But yes, then definitely the downforce that is stopping
• 31:12
  a much heavier vehicle is.
• 31:14
  It's going to play a big part.
• 31:15
  And you know what's funny?
• 31:16
  You brought up something that conjured a memory from 20 years ago.
• 31:20
  Now I remember when the original golf R32s came out and they were doing their
• 31:24
  testing shootouts against the Lancer Evo and the Subaru STI, which came
• 31:28
  with Brembo calipers from the factory.
• 31:30
  Volkswagen presented this 3, 300 pound car with two pot girling side
• 31:35
  pull calipers like You know, factory stuff and they're like, it's out
• 31:39
  stopping these high performance brakes.
• 31:41
  And to your point, they had 13 and a quarter inch rotors with massive
• 31:45
  pads and the clamping force of those twin pot girlings was better
• 31:50
  than the Brembos because they were running these teeny little pads.
• 31:53
  And so again, there's a lot of mathematics that go into
• 31:56
  getting these cars to slow down.
• 31:58
  And I think the overall sentiment here is that.
• 32:00
  The big break kit isn't always the answer.
• 32:03
  There's a lot more, you know, weight, the rest of your hardware,
• 32:06
  all that kind of stuff involved.
• 32:07
  So take the time to research, talk to other drivers and see what they're
• 32:12
  doing and see what has worked and what doesn't just don't go by what's
• 32:16
  off the shelf and say, this is what I need because it looks cool.
• 32:19
  Right.
• 32:20
  Definitely, definitely ask questions.
• 32:22
  We encourage people to ask a lot of questions here.
• 32:25
  We ask a lot of questions of our customers just because it's real easy to sell
• 32:29
  somebody 4, 000 kit and call it a day.
• 32:32
  We would much, much rather communicate with them, give them all of their options
• 32:37
  and give them an honest assessment.
• 32:38
  Even if that means not selling them 3, 000 or 4, 000 kits, if that just
• 32:42
  means selling them a 200 set of brake pads, it does us a better justice.
• 32:47
  And I think More companies hopefully kind of feel the same way that we do,
• 32:50
  you know, it's, it's more important to get somebody into the right
• 32:54
  thing than just sell them the wrong.
• 32:56
  But you end up with customers for life, dedicated, loyal people going on.
• 32:59
  Porterfield pads are amazing.
• 33:01
  I'm going to keep buying them.
• 33:01
  I didn't have to do anything else, but I think one of the most contested
• 33:05
  pieces of the braking system is the rotors themselves, right?
• 33:09
  We kind of alluded to this earlier.
• 33:10
  I have come to the school of thought by way of some veteran racers.
• 33:14
  Yeah.
• 33:14
  And you mentioned it, they're disposable and they always say buy
• 33:17
  the cheapest ones you can find because all you're doing is wearing them out.
• 33:21
  There's a lot of people that get hung up on aesthetics, right?
• 33:24
  Oh, the cross drilled, slotted, this and that and upside down and cryo dims
• 33:28
  and all the geomet and all this stuff.
• 33:31
  When you're racing, I still believe, and somebody correct me if I'm wrong, if
• 33:35
  you're listening to this, Cheap is the best solution when it comes to rotors.
• 33:38
  You want maximum surface area, not these cheese graters.
• 33:42
  We always advise against cross drilling.
• 33:44
  Cross drilling in a racing situation is bad news.
• 33:47
  Going to crack, you're lessening the surface area of the rotor.
• 33:50
  Like you mentioned, it makes it more prone to cracking.
• 33:52
  You'll get the cracks between the holes and you'll end up
• 33:55
  having to replace the rotor.
• 33:56
  Due to that, not because of the wear that you would have.
• 33:59
  If it was solid at the most, we recommend slotting, but typically
• 34:03
  the strongest, most longest wearing, most durable for club racing.
• 34:07
  Those kinds of things is going to be just a plain face rotor.
• 34:10
  Most pads nowadays are slotted.
• 34:13
  You know, they'll have a slot in the pad surface, which does the same
• 34:16
  thing as the slotting on the rotor.
• 34:17
  It helps release the gases that build up between the pad surface and the rotor
• 34:21
  surface, so that it gives you a better contact and there's no buffering involved.
• 34:25
  So to speak.
• 34:26
  And I guess the only part that I probably wouldn't agree with is the
• 34:30
  cheapest is always better because there's definitely quality landmarks for rollers.
• 34:35
  A cast iron roller is a cast iron roller.
• 34:37
  Yes, I will agree with you there.
• 34:38
  However, there are certain standards and certain things like if they're
• 34:42
  using recycled metals versus brand new.
• 34:44
  So if you're running like a six, eight hour enduro, even a 12 hour
• 34:48
  enduro, you're going to want to get something more high quality so that
• 34:51
  you're not cracking in a cheap way.
• 34:52
  Rotor through the first race or, you know, in the first couple of hours, so to
• 34:56
  speak, I mean, the Miata guys right now are laughing going, well, the expensive
• 34:59
  rotor is 17 and the cheap ones, 13.
• 35:02
  So, you know, whatever, but I feel your pain on the larger diameter rotors.
• 35:08
  It gets expensive quickly.
• 35:09
  Obviously there's some specialty stuff out there, especially if you're
• 35:11
  driving exotics, some of the new Porsches with their, you know, carbon
• 35:15
  ceramic brakes, all that crazy stuff.
• 35:17
  I think we're all in agreement.
• 35:18
  The more you do this, the more surface area you can get, the better braking.
• 35:22
  experience you're gonna get.
• 35:23
  And also we've seen some nightmare situations with cross drilled rotors,
• 35:28
  where when they do crack, unlike a solid rotor that cracks, you hear it is bang.
• 35:32
  And they're like, all right, it's busted.
• 35:33
  All right, let's go.
• 35:34
  We'll put on a new rotor where we've seen entire chunks of rotors
• 35:37
  fall apart on a cross drill.
• 35:39
  And then suddenly the car's in the wall.
• 35:41
  All because.
• 35:41
  We had these really cool looking cheese graters on the car.
• 35:45
  So the last piece of the racing brake system is the cooling ducks.
• 35:50
  I've fallen prey to this argument as well.
• 35:52
  Do they really work?
• 35:54
  Are they hocus pocus?
• 35:55
  Are cooling ducks worth it?
• 35:57
  Do they always work or not?
• 35:59
  Fact final answer.
• 36:01
  Um, much like everything else they work if used properly.
• 36:06
  In order to have ducting work and do what it's intended to do, which is to
• 36:11
  cool the system down, you have to have it plumbed from as low at the front
• 36:18
  of the car that the nose of the car as low as possible and as close to the
• 36:22
  centers as you can possibly get it.
• 36:24
  Because that's where the most amount of air is going to be at.
• 36:29
  And then you need to plummet somehow where you don't restrict all of that airflow.
• 36:34
  So sometimes it gets really tight in there and you're trying to maneuver the
• 36:38
  hose or whatever you're using around.
• 36:41
  and it can collapse and things like that, then you're going
• 36:43
  to be restricting the air.
• 36:45
  So that's the first part.
• 36:46
  The second part is ensuring that the hose is pointed to the back side of the
• 36:50
  rotor, never the rotor surface area.
• 36:53
  So not where the pad would be sweeping across.
• 36:56
  That is terrible to do.
• 36:57
  because you'll only cool that section and that will cause cracking
• 37:00
  because half of it will be hot, half of it cooler pointed to the
• 37:04
  inside of the backside of the rotor.
• 37:06
  And if you can get a plate to keep that focused in that area.
• 37:10
  So on a ventilated rotor with it pointed to the back, it'll fan out
• 37:14
  the air throughout all of those veins.
• 37:16
  It'll shoot up in between the, the caliper and everything.
• 37:19
  So it'll cool that part down and pull the rotor from inside out,
• 37:22
  completely the whole rotor at the same time being cooled down.
• 37:27
  That's when it'll actually work any other way.
• 37:30
  It's not going to do what it needs to do.
• 37:32
  Being pointed closer to the center of the rotor also helps, if at
• 37:36
  all, to put some air across the wheel bearings as well, right?
• 37:40
  You try to cool them down so they don't suffer.
• 37:42
  The counterpoint to this that I've always made is how do you know if
• 37:46
  they're really working to your point?
• 37:47
  They need to be installed correctly.
• 37:49
  All this, if you don't have a way to measure the amount of CFM that's
• 37:52
  traveling through that hose, if you're just getting like a whisper of air,
• 37:56
  then they're not really effective.
• 37:57
  So why even have them?
• 37:58
  The other counter argument is look at the design of your wheels.
• 38:02
  And people are like, wait, what do you mean?
• 38:03
  And I'm like, do you remember the old Ronal turbo fans
• 38:06
  from back in the eighties?
• 38:07
  The reason they were called the turbo fans is because they were
• 38:09
  designed to suck air through the wheel and cool down the braking system.
• 38:14
  So some wheels like team dynamics and others are designed to act as a fan
• 38:18
  and cool the wheels down because of the geometry of the spokes themselves.
• 38:22
  So sometimes that plays into the equation.
• 38:25
  But also you could generate enough air with the right wheel To push against
• 38:29
  the air that's coming through that hose.
• 38:31
  So there's a lot of things going on there.
• 38:34
  What is the answer?
• 38:35
  I don't know.
• 38:35
  I think it's maybe work with a tuner.
• 38:38
  Put the car up on some rollers.
• 38:40
  Try to push some air through there.
• 38:41
  See what's going on.
• 38:42
  See what the affected temperature difference is.
• 38:45
  Going back to what we were talking about before.
• 38:46
  What are our heat ranges?
• 38:48
  Heat is the enemy here, especially of the braking system.
• 38:51
  This one's very complicated.
• 38:53
  It's not just bolt on some parts from a kit.
• 38:55
  It's much more intricate, much more subtle in terms of getting it to work
• 39:00
  correctly for everybody's application.
• 39:02
  Absolutely.
• 39:02
  I mean, I think in general, most things that have to do with the cars
• 39:06
  are, it's not just one simple answer.
• 39:08
  Like this is it.
• 39:09
  And that's it.
• 39:10
  There's nuances.
• 39:11
  And there's obviously times and aspects where that's not going to work.
• 39:14
  Like you said, there's plenty of applications out there that are
• 39:17
  designed to take in more air.
• 39:19
  And if you don't have it plumbed correctly, you could be doing yourself
• 39:23
  a disservice where you were getting more air naturally in that area.
• 39:27
  Now you're obstructing it by trying to have this hose there that isn't pr So
• 39:32
  you're not really get why I say it works if it you can't get it done pro find
• 39:38
  another way to make the things we left off th going to transition to fo Are the pads
• 39:46
  themselves lots of back and forth about what is the right pad and how aggressive
• 39:51
  it needs to be in the torque and the bite.
• 39:53
  And there's all sorts of other terminology that coincide with pads themselves.
• 39:57
  So let's talk about the pads, how they're constructed.
• 40:00
  You talked about the adhesive properties and the abrasive properties of the
• 40:03
  pads, but there's some drawbacks and advantages also to your stock pad,
• 40:08
  your mixed use pad and your race pad.
• 40:10
  So let's start off by going through all that kind of stuff.
• 40:13
  Stock pads obviously are going to have the least amount of friction and the
• 40:16
  least amount of temperature range.
• 40:18
  So, if we're talking in terms of racing use.
• 40:21
  They're going to meet their limits much quicker, probably within a lap or two.
• 40:26
  They are not designed to be stopped repeatedly at high speeds
• 40:30
  and creating and generating and keeping in that amount of heat.
• 40:34
  It's just not real world experiences for that.
• 40:37
  Secondly, I don't think, in our professional opinion, that there
• 40:41
  is a good dual purpose pad.
• 40:43
  It does not exist because again the requirements for street temperatures
• 40:48
  and friction is completely different than the requirements for track
• 40:53
  temperatures and conditions.
• 40:55
  People say, oh but I'm only doing an HPDE.
• 40:58
  It's fine.
• 40:59
  You know, or I'm just going to do a track day.
• 41:01
  You're simulating race conditions that car doesn't know it doesn't have a competitor.
• 41:07
  A good application for a, let's call it a marketed mixed race pad might
• 41:11
  be autocross though, where you need sudden stopping and bursts of heat and
• 41:17
  the pads cool right back down again.
• 41:18
  I always just very carefully say Street autocross versus like dual
• 41:23
  purpose because then that kind of parlays into the track situation.
• 41:27
  But yes, so like our performance street compound, POC make what they
• 41:31
  dub as a dual purpose HP plus compound.
• 41:33
  So that is great for having that higher friction, higher, broader temperature
• 41:38
  range than say a stock street pad, but not at the level of a track pad.
• 41:42
  But with those kinds of things, you get the dust.
• 41:46
  the squeal and the occasional rotor wear.
• 41:49
  So if somebody is trying to avoid all of those headaches for their street car,
• 41:54
  then the HP plus is not as desirable because it's not going to be great
• 41:58
  on the track and it's not going to be great on the street, but it kind
• 42:01
  of allows you to move back and forth.
• 42:03
  The Porterfield R4S.
• 42:05
  Can be used for street autocross again because autocross is generating that
• 42:10
  heat and that friction, but for a shorter amount of time, and then you
• 42:14
  have more like recovery time after that, if somebody is competitively
• 42:18
  autocrossing mean that they trailer the car to and from the track, and
• 42:21
  that's their dedicated autocross car.
• 42:23
  We have our vintage race compound.
• 42:26
  It's called our 4 1.
• 42:27
  We recommend that because it has high friction level at low temperatures.
• 42:31
  Best for when peaks will be under 1000.
• 42:33
  And that works really well.
• 42:35
  I know a lot of the Miata guys, because it's a lighter weight car, even for
• 42:38
  road racing, they like the R41 as well.
• 42:40
  So lighter cars can use that for road racing, for autocrossing.
• 42:44
  We do it for vintage racing.
• 42:45
  But yeah, autocrossing is kind of that special niche kind of market where it can
• 42:49
  kind of go street or track as long as the temperature range comes i we go to the
• 42:55
  other end of and we start talking abou and we'll talk about how between all these.
• 43:02
  One of people all the time is do the street.
• 43:06
  What do you m What do you mean race pads?
• 43:10
  Like to be hot?
• 43:11
  They operate at high temperatures effectively.
• 43:14
  So let's talk about what it means to get a race pad hot and why they need to be hot.
• 43:19
  Well, it goes back to the adherent friction and the
• 43:21
  abrasive friction technology.
• 43:23
  So the adherent friction is trying to do its job, but at 200 or a hundred degrees,
• 43:29
  it doesn't work It, it doesn't put that layer on and smooth it away, like it needs
• 43:33
  more heat in it to be doing that job.
• 43:36
  To be laying the layer down and then sweeping it back up.
• 43:39
  They're designed to break the bonds, the crystalline bonds
• 43:43
  at a certain temperature.
• 43:44
  And so if you're not getting it to that temperature to make that
• 43:47
  reaction occur, then it's just not going to be what you're looking for.
• 43:52
  I know like ST 47 by rebus, it's very high torque, high friction level pad requires
• 43:57
  the most out of the braking system.
• 43:59
  If you run that cold or drive it on the track, it'll shudder.
• 44:03
  It'll do all kinds of mean, nasty things.
• 44:05
  That's that adherent layer not being able to do it.
• 44:08
  And so it's creating that vibration and that uneven pad transfer
• 44:12
  because you have to run it hot.
• 44:14
  And that's just part of mixing in the abrasive friction and the
• 44:17
  other ingredients where they're just, they're designed to react
• 44:20
  and to change their structures.
• 44:22
  at those higher temperatures.
• 44:23
  So typically when we talk about most high ends, the higher torque,
• 44:28
  the higher friction compounds, you got to get those by 600 degrees.
• 44:31
  Like they want to be operating between 600 and a thousand all
• 44:35
  the time, if not higher to 1500, most of these paths go no problem.
• 44:39
  And that's going to be like your DTC 70s, you know, your ST 47s, even 60 likes
• 44:44
  to be a little bit hotter than most.
• 44:46
  So when we talk to customers and we're trying to figure out what range they
• 44:50
  need to be in, obviously as a break company, it is our job to know the
• 44:55
  parameters of every single break pad that we carry, which is what I go back to
• 45:00
  saying, like, I'm just always learning.
• 45:01
  I'm always trying to talk to performance friction, talk to investors, talk to
• 45:05
  pageant, talk to whoever I can and learn the ins and outs of all their compounds.
• 45:09
  So, you know, we definitely have some that work better at the lower end temperatures.
• 45:13
  Like I was saying, the R41, the Porterfield R4 has good cold friction.
• 45:17
  It comes in around 200, so it can be used for rears, for those lower heat
• 45:22
  applications, like performance friction.
• 45:24
  They like to run real hot too.
• 45:26
  And just talking to people and seeing.
• 45:28
  Seeing how they're using their pads and what they've used before is always really
• 45:32
  helpful, whether they liked it or disliked it, or I haven't been raising, I'm new,
• 45:36
  so like, obviously if somebody is new to racing, I'm not going to throw them into
• 45:40
  47 and be like, Hey, sink or swim, buddy.
• 45:42
  Have a good time.
• 45:44
  Those are high friction, high torque.
• 45:46
  And when we talk about friction and torque, the torque is how
• 45:49
  quickly that friction responds.
• 45:51
  And so the higher the torque level of a pad, the more break finesse
• 45:55
  that you have to put into the pedal.
• 45:57
  Because once you get those into the temperature range that they need to be,
• 46:01
  they're almost like an on off switch.
• 46:02
  So if you treat a high torque pad, like a moderate or light work pad, and you just
• 46:08
  really mashed into that pedal and try to do a really extreme threshold breaking,
• 46:12
  let's say you could overslow the car very easily and flat spot tires and things
• 46:16
  like that, because it's going to react.
• 46:18
  much quicker than a moderately torqued pad.
• 46:21
  It's a matter of knowing what you're trying to get out of the car, how
• 46:25
  hard you're pushing the car, the temperatures that you're seeing.
• 46:29
  That's really important to knowing where to put the most emphasis or
• 46:33
  what's mostly needed out of the system.
• 46:35
  So the more that people know About their expectations, about their car, about how
• 46:40
  frequently they're going to use it, what tracks you're going to, that's important
• 46:43
  too, because, you know, I said before, some of these tracks are not very taxing
• 46:47
  on the brake system and you can get away with something very minimal, but then if
• 46:51
  their primary track is a track like Road Atlanta or Sabering or something, that's
• 46:54
  going to be a very different animal than what they're going to need for something
• 46:58
  that's very forgiving on the brakes.
• 47:00
  Trying to figure it out.
• 47:01
  And sometimes, you know, you need to have two different sets of pads, you
• 47:03
  know, for those tougher tracks, you have this, it's going to work really great.
• 47:06
  And then for the ones that aren't run this, because you're not getting
• 47:09
  them up to the temperature and that's why you don't like your break.
• 47:11
  You bring up a really, really valid point in the sense that understanding
• 47:16
  what you want to get out of.
• 47:17
  Quote unquote, the bite or the torque of the pad is important to your driving
• 47:22
  style as it is to a lot of other things.
• 47:23
  Because if you're big on trail braking and you have an overly
• 47:28
  aggressive pad, especially front and rear, you haven't biased them right.
• 47:31
  It'll cause that car to do all sorts of weird stuff that you weren't expecting.
• 47:35
  You're like, Oh, this thing handles like garbage.
• 47:37
  No, it's your pads.
• 47:38
  That overbiting in the corner and causing it to just wash
• 47:42
  out and do all sorts of stuff.
• 47:43
  So dialing that in, you know, I've played with pads for years
• 47:46
  until I figured out what worked.
• 47:48
  I predominantly switch between R4Es and DTC 60s.
• 47:51
  They're very similar pads.
• 47:52
  It depends on what's available at the time, especially during COVID
• 47:55
  supplies were low, but I go back and forth, but I know how they feel.
• 48:00
  I know what they're going to give me.
• 48:01
  I know that where my car is weighted and what I want it to feel like in the corner.
• 48:06
  But I also put a slightly more aggressive pad in the back
• 48:09
  to cause the car to rotate.
• 48:11
  I want it to be loose in the back on entry, things like that.
• 48:14
  So again, playing with those pads plays into the setup of the suspension as well.
• 48:18
  It's just amazing how this stuff works together.
• 48:20
  But I think the confusing part is just like when we go back to that
• 48:22
  scenario about the brake fluid, when you're looking at all the pretty
• 48:25
  colors of all the boxes and the fantastic names that they all have.
• 48:28
  How do you know the difference, right?
• 48:30
  Is there a specific go to number?
• 48:32
  Like if the rated low temperature is 500, you know, you're into a race pad
• 48:37
  or is there a clear defining factor that says this is the difference
• 48:41
  between street mixed and race?
• 48:43
  Some companies post temperature ranges, friction levels, things like that.
• 48:47
  It gets tricky because over the years there's been admittedly
• 48:51
  some temperature graphs that I have seen where I'm like, Hmm.
• 48:55
  I don't know about that.
• 48:57
  I think because if more than one or two people put out misinformation
• 49:02
  in their graphs, then now the next person who puts out a graph has to
• 49:06
  adjust their real graph to match the fake graph that somebody else put on.
• 49:11
  So it gets very warped and very confusing because if somebody posts a
• 49:16
  real one, you'd be like, well, there's this garbage, but then you run it
• 49:20
  and you're like, it's not, it's just kind of trying to figure that out.
• 49:23
  Friction levels, Typically, they should be able to tell you about where they are.
• 49:27
  Again, like performance friction does not tell us that.
• 49:30
  They don't tell us temperature ranges, generally speaking.
• 49:31
  They don't tell us specific friction levels.
• 49:33
  But based off of testing and what we know and things like that, we can say,
• 49:37
  well, it's like this one, which is here.
• 49:40
  Most stop pads are 0.
• 49:41
  2 to 0.
• 49:42
  3 friction performance street pads would be more around a 0.
• 49:46
  4.
• 49:47
  And then the race pads would come in between 0.
• 49:50
  5 and like 0.
• 49:50
  7.
• 49:51
  It's kind of like earthquakes, right?
• 49:52
  Hurricanes or whatever, you know, like they go up exponentially.
• 49:55
  So the numbers aren't very indifferent, but you would know
• 49:59
  based off of where those are at, where you should be at as far as.
• 50:03
  What you're trying to get out of the car, the, the number goes up and the,
• 50:06
  and so does the temperature range.
• 50:08
  They're correlative, so that's good.
• 50:10
  The other side of this, kind of the darker side, in my opinion, because I, I don't
• 50:14
  care what my car looks like when I'm at the racetrack, but there's a lot of
• 50:16
  people that do, and you hear all the time.
• 50:18
  I wanna.
• 50:19
  Brake pad that doesn't make any dust.
• 50:21
  I want my wheels to look spotless all the time.
• 50:23
  They're out there detailing their car.
• 50:24
  I'm like, we're at a track, man.
• 50:25
  You're going to end up with slag from the tires, junk chips.
• 50:29
  It's like, whatever.
• 50:30
  Right.
• 50:31
  What is your recommendation on these supposed high performance pads that
• 50:35
  are low dust or super clean or made of mysterious things like ceramic,
• 50:41
  you know, and things like that.
• 50:42
  Are they, are they for real?
• 50:43
  Are they for fiction?
• 50:44
  For performance street use.
• 50:46
  Low dust, low squeal pads, or flat quarter filled R4S is, as you described,
• 50:50
  these mythical creatures who do not, more so when they say don't dust.
• 50:55
  Okay, so again, when we go back to abrasive friction, that's the part
• 50:59
  that wears away like sandpaper, right?
• 51:01
  So that has to go somewhere.
• 51:03
  It doesn't just magically go poof.
• 51:07
  It's not a vapor.
• 51:08
  It's an actual thing.
• 51:09
  The way that they kind of get it to be dust free, or I can only speak
• 51:13
  for us, our dust is a lighter color.
• 51:15
  So when it comes off of the pad, it's lighter in color,
• 51:19
  but it's also lightweight.
• 51:20
  So it doesn't stick to the wheel.
• 51:23
  It just kind of goes.
• 51:24
  into the air like every other brake dust does.
• 51:29
  So therefore it's not adhering itself to the wheel.
• 51:32
  And so then there's the perception that it's dust free.
• 51:34
  It's not dust.
• 51:36
  It's dusting, but it's not sticking to your wheels where
• 51:39
  you have to physically see it.
• 51:41
  And if it does, it's a very light color and not like super dense
• 51:45
  and heavy and things like that.
• 51:46
  And I won't name names.
• 51:47
  Some pads are extremely dirty and the brake dust is very sticky.
• 51:51
  And I've written about it.
• 51:52
  Now, year after year and something we call the battle against brake dust.
• 51:56
  So I want to ask your professional opinion.
• 51:58
  Do you have any cleaning tips for those of us that suffer from pretty
• 52:03
  wheels that are sort of ugly all the time due to their brake dust?
• 52:07
  Much like everything else, there's not a clear, concise answer because different
• 52:10
  wheels have different treatment methods that will work with those wheels.
• 52:14
  So I would never want to give somebody a blanket recommendation, but I
• 52:17
  would say The quicker that you remove that brake dust, the better off
• 52:22
  you'll be at removing them because typically the ones, the dust that
• 52:26
  it's very heavy tends to be corrosive.
• 52:28
  So the longer a corrosive material is allowed to sit, the more damage
• 52:34
  it will do, especially in damp or wet conditions, which tends to activate
• 52:39
  or accelerate the corrosiveness.
• 52:41
  Yeah.
• 52:41
  And to add to that as a plug for one of our previous episodes, one of the
• 52:46
  things I found that works really, really well is, is if you use a wheel
• 52:50
  treatment, there aren't a ton out there.
• 52:52
  Zymal makes one called wheel coat and it's designed with natural materials in it.
• 52:57
  And I've shown videos where after a session on track, you can wipe down a
• 53:01
  wheel with super aggressive brake dust on it with just a napkin and nothing else.
• 53:06
  And it repels the brake dust.
• 53:07
  So if you're that concerned about it, I highly recommend
• 53:10
  looking into a wheel coat.
• 53:11
  Protection, a coating that you can put on.
• 53:13
  They're not the same coating you would put on the body panels of the car.
• 53:16
  Something specifically designed for wheels.
• 53:19
  I can't recommend the Zymal stuff enough.
• 53:21
  There are other competing products out there.
• 53:23
  That's the one I've chosen to go with.
• 53:25
  You can tune into a previous episode with Zymal to learn more about those
• 53:29
  products, if you're interested.
• 53:31
  Since we're talking about pads and we all have our loyalties, let's talk about
• 53:34
  the different brands that Porterfield resells along with the house brand,
• 53:39
  the Porterfield pads themselves.
• 53:41
  What can somebody call up and order from Porterfield from you, Wendy?
• 53:45
  We sell obviously the Porterfield, our in house brand, Performance Friction.
• 53:50
  Hawk, Raybestos, and Paget.
• 53:52
  And we carry from Paget and Raybestos.
• 53:54
  It's only their race line.
• 53:56
  We don't carry anything for their street line.
• 53:58
  We're a reseller for Brembo, so we can get obviously any of the Brembo racing brake
• 54:02
  pads as well as the street stuff too.
• 54:04
  I've also heard that if you don't have a pad available in the catalog for a vehicle
• 54:10
  that Porterfield, you can send old pads because you guys can do something with the
• 54:13
  backing plates to actually create pads.
• 54:15
  Is that true or not?
• 54:17
  So we don't actually need your backing plate.
• 54:19
  So we get this a lot.
• 54:21
  I will say as a disclaimer recently, Raybustess, they don't
• 54:25
  mind that we make custom pads.
• 54:27
  So everybody that we sell knows that we make custom pads.
• 54:30
  We make no qualms about asking and making sure that that's cool with them.
• 54:34
  So Raybustess has asked if you're going to make our pads into something else,
• 54:38
  after you finish the product, please just relabel it yours so that the
• 54:41
  liability is yours since we don't have control over what you do understood.
• 54:44
  So if anybody sees.
• 54:46
  The pads labeled are in a quarter filled box.
• 54:48
  I assure you, it is still Raybestos product.
• 54:50
  We're just confirming that we're doing it under their regulations
• 54:54
  and how they would like it to be.
• 54:55
  Generally speaking, we would put it back in like a hot box or a
• 54:58
  pageant box so that way the customer knows, like, this is what we use.
• 55:02
  This is, But per their requests, we had to make that change, which is recent.
• 55:06
  Basically, we start with a finished product, whether that's from
• 55:09
  POC or Paget or PFC or Rebestos.
• 55:13
  And it only comes into play if it's a pad that they don't
• 55:16
  make somebody really wants.
• 55:17
  So like, let's say a Mazda Miata.
• 55:21
  the newer ones without the Brembo system.
• 55:24
  I know a lot of people like to run the HP plus on those Miatas for dual purpose.
• 55:28
  They don't make them.
• 55:29
  So we make it, but we have to start with something that's already finished and we
• 55:33
  just cut it to the shape that you need.
• 55:36
  So in theory, you can think about somebody giving you a round cake and you're like,
• 55:39
  well, gosh, I really want a square one.
• 55:41
  Okay, cool.
• 55:41
  I'm just going to take a knife and I'm going to cut the little
• 55:43
  corners off and I'll make it square.
• 55:47
  It's kind of the same thing with the brake pads.
• 55:48
  We're not pouring their material.
• 55:50
  We're not relining on a vacuum plate.
• 55:52
  We're starting with a part they made themselves and we're just changing
• 55:57
  the shape to match what you need.
• 55:59
  Right.
• 55:59
  And so this is important for a lot of guys that have vintage cars, right?
• 56:02
  Where they might have something odd.
• 56:04
  I personally have a vehicle that I'm working on now that
• 56:07
  has brem tech calipers on there.
• 56:09
  Those were discontinued 30 years ago now.
• 56:12
  And I've been going, do I replace?
• 56:14
  These are four piston calipers.
• 56:15
  I'm like, do I replace?
• 56:16
  It's basically like a Wilwood super light pad, but it's flat across the bottom.
• 56:21
  Yeah.
• 56:21
  So I'm kind of like, where do I, where do I go to get pads?
• 56:24
  I call Porterfield and say, can you make me one?
• 56:26
  Or do I replace all of my calipers?
• 56:28
  That's kind of the decision I'm faced with.
• 56:30
  And I'm sure a lot of other people are too.
• 56:32
  So I want to remind people that.
• 56:33
  You guys offer this service and it's super important, especially if
• 56:36
  you wanted a more aggressive pad or something that you're used to using
• 56:40
  on your more germane race car, that you have this option available to you.
• 56:44
  And I think that's super awesome.
• 56:45
  Yeah, it's kind of what we're, you know, what we're known for.
• 56:48
  sets us different than most other companies that we have that custom aspect.
• 56:53
  So I wonder, and this comes up a lot, I hear, Oh, well, Porterfield's
• 56:57
  just a rebadged Raybestos, whatever.
• 56:59
  Is that true?
• 57:00
  Or is it sort of like, no, we've been in business.
• 57:04
  Well, so, okay.
• 57:05
  I've been here for 25 years.
• 57:08
  When I first started in 1998, we already had our Porterfield line.
• 57:12
  We did not start selling Raybestos until like 2008 or seven or something like that.
• 57:18
  But first of all, just to debunk that, we were in business selling
• 57:21
  Porterfield pads long before we were selling Raybestos brake pads.
• 57:24
  But no, we manufacture our own brake pads and it's completely separate.
• 57:28
  They're completely different.
• 57:30
  If you took a Raybestos pad and a Porterfield pad and you put them
• 57:33
  side by side, they would look visibly very, very different.
• 57:36
  We are not the same company.
• 57:37
  I think people, they kind of think that it's the same only because we
• 57:41
  were probably one of the earlier club racing companies that started
• 57:45
  pushing the Raybestos out there before it was really readily available
• 57:49
  to a lot of other club racers.
• 57:51
  So I think they get it misconstrued, but definitely they're two separate companies.
• 57:55
  Not related, not the same thing.
• 57:56
  And our last bit here in the technical part of the conversation, checking
• 58:00
  our brakes, how do we really look for where and making sure we're getting the
• 58:05
  optimal performance out of everything?
• 58:07
  What are some of your recommendations for doing the operations and maintenance
• 58:10
  of our system throughout the season?
• 58:12
  Well, obviously like just, it's as simple as a visual inspection.
• 58:15
  I mean, brake pads are going to be very easy to look at and see
• 58:18
  if your pad material is low.
• 58:20
  We recommend replacing pads when you have only a quarter inch material left.
• 58:24
  Some people that's not their comfort level, whatever floats your boat.
• 58:28
  But we say no more, no less than a quarter inch of material.
• 58:31
  Rotor is the same thing.
• 58:32
  You know, if they're getting really warped or they're getting really
• 58:34
  grooved, you know, you have that visible etching or ripples or whatever
• 58:38
  in them, it's time to replace that.
• 58:41
  The calipers inspecting those, inspecting your boots, inspecting
• 58:44
  your seals, inspecting the pistons, make sure that there's no like.
• 58:47
  Pits or anything that got in there.
• 58:49
  Occasionally we've had people where rocks have kicked up and got into that caliber
• 58:53
  system and put like a huge gouge in the piston and it was causing it to leak.
• 58:58
  Things happen.
• 58:58
  You just don't know.
• 58:59
  So just visual inspections of all of your equipment, just like you
• 59:02
  would do anything else checking it to make sure it's all working order.
• 59:05
  So what other wear and tear or specialty like brake related products
• 59:10
  does Porterfield sell outside of pads?
• 59:12
  Do you guys have rotors, brake lines, fluids?
• 59:14
  What else do you carry?
• 59:15
  So we carry like Tilton's full line.
• 59:17
  So anything that Tilton sells, master cylinders, pedal assemblies, same
• 59:21
  with like Wilwood, we carry that.
• 59:23
  We carry products by DEI, which is dealing with the heat situations.
• 59:28
  They have a great floor panel kit for Miatas.
• 59:31
  Since we brought that up a couple of times, just figured I'd shout that one
• 59:33
  out, brake fluid, C trap oil coolers, carry red line oil, a lot of like undercar
• 59:40
  parts, mostly like something that would be somewhat related to brakes or other
• 59:45
  kinds of niche type market situation.
• 59:47
  All right, Wendy.
• 59:48
  So we covered a lot of ground and I want to ask, are there any shout outs,
• 59:53
  promotions, anything else we didn't talk about with respect to Porterfield?
• 59:57
  You know, this is your opportunity to let the audience know.
• 1:00:00
  Well, we're here for the racers.
• 1:00:03
  That's what we, we love talking to them.
• 1:00:05
  Even if it's just a question, that's maybe not going to net a sale.
• 1:00:08
  We're here to help.
• 1:00:09
  We're here to answer questions and educate people.
• 1:00:12
  Same as I'm ready to be educated.
• 1:00:14
  If I said something in this podcast and somebody was like, she's crazy.
• 1:00:18
  That's fine.
• 1:00:18
  Give me a call.
• 1:00:19
  I'm at Porterfield all the time and you just let me know and we can talk about it.
• 1:00:24
  And we can both learn.
• 1:00:25
  And I think it's just a really good industry and.
• 1:00:28
  community to be involved with.
• 1:00:29
  Porterfield just tries to do what we can to help the whole
• 1:00:32
  community and keep people out there racing and having a good time.
• 1:00:35
  Absolutely.
• 1:00:36
  And for those that don't know, this is the opportunity where you should be
• 1:00:38
  checking your membership to your different car clubs, because some of them do have
• 1:00:43
  discounts and promotions with Porterfield.
• 1:00:46
  I can name a few off the top of my head right now, but this is part
• 1:00:49
  of that value incentive package.
• 1:00:51
  Why they want you to sign up for these annual memberships.
• 1:00:53
  So check and see if Porterfield is on the list.
• 1:00:56
  So that way.
• 1:00:57
  Save a couple of bucks next time you need a set of pads or rotors
• 1:01:00
  or brake fluid or whatever it is.
• 1:01:02
  Yep, racebrakes.
• 1:01:03
  com and we do it at NASA, SCCA, and VARA are the discounts.
• 1:01:08
  Porterfield Brakes services all kinds of performance applications related to
• 1:01:12
  your vehicle's braking system, including brake pads, rotors, calipers, fluids,
• 1:01:17
  and full brake kits, as well as other performance and racing components
• 1:01:21
  like suspensions, oil coolers, starters, heat protection items.
• 1:01:25
  batteries and much, much more.
• 1:01:27
  If you need any brake pads for virtually any car or truck, they have
• 1:01:31
  them or they will make them for you.
• 1:01:33
  So be sure to check out Porterfield brakes before making your next purchase.
• 1:01:37
  You can find Porterfield at www.
• 1:01:40
  porterfield brakes.
• 1:01:41
  com or at Porterfield brakes on Instagram and Facebook.
• 1:01:46
  And for more details on everything we talked about in this episode,
• 1:01:49
  head on over to gtmotorsports.
• 1:01:51
  org and search What's stopping you for the follow on article for this episode
• 1:01:56
  and by all means, give Wendy a call.
• 1:01:58
  She's a wealth of information and happy to have a conversation with you.
• 1:02:02
  And with that, Wendy, I can't thank you enough for coming on the show.
• 1:02:05
  This has been an absolute education, and I really appreciate
• 1:02:08
  you taking the time to stop.
• 1:02:09
  and talk to us about brakes.
• 1:02:11
  Well, thank you so much for having us.
• 1:02:13
  It was great to chat with you.
• 1:02:19
  If you like what you've heard and want to learn more about GTM,
• 1:02:22
  be sure to check us out on www.
• 1:02:26
  gtmotorsports.
• 1:02:26
  org.
• 1:02:26
  You can also find us on Instagram Also, if you want to get involved or have
• 1:02:32
  suggestions for future shows, you can call or text us at 202 630 1770, or send us
• 1:02:39
  an email at crewchief at gtmotorsports.
• 1:02:41
  org.
• 1:02:42
  We'd love to hear from you.
• 1:02:44
  Hey everybody, Crew Chief Eric here.
• 1:02:46
  We really hope you enjoyed this episode of Break Fix, and we wanted
• 1:02:50
  to remind you that GTM remains a no annual fees organization.
• 1:02:55
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• 1:02:58
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• 1:03:00
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• 1:03:23
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• 1:03:27
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• 1:03:32
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