Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / DEAD IN WALMART: Grandmother of teen girl stabbed dead in aisle speaks to Nancy

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DEAD IN WALMART: Grandmother of teen girl stabbed dead in aisle speaks to Nancy · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:08
Speaker 1: In about two years. My little babies, as I call them,
0:14
Speaker 1: aren't going to be fifteen. And I couldn't help but
0:18
Speaker 1: think about that when I first read about the case
0:21
Speaker 1: of Melanie Lions, she just turned fifteen. It was her birthday.
0:26
Speaker 1: She celebrated at the movies, and then she was stabbed dead.
0:32
Speaker 1: Sled that so ken just for a moment. She celebrated
0:36
Speaker 1: at the movie theater with her friends, and then she
0:40
Speaker 1: was stabbed dead. Sometimes facts and cases are so difficult
0:54
Speaker 1: it's hard to even say them out loud. And it
1:01
Speaker 1: was so hard for me the first year or so
1:04
Speaker 1: that I began trying felonies. You know, up to then,
1:07
Speaker 1: I've been drawing up indictments over in GV Justice, looking
1:12
Speaker 1: at appeals deadbeat dads. When you stand up in front
1:16
Speaker 1: of a jury and have to explain horrible details of
1:21
Speaker 1: horrible cases, it hurts. And you know that sitting right
1:27
Speaker 1: behind you on a row one his victim's family. And
1:32
Speaker 1: that's what we have today because with me is a
1:36
Speaker 1: very very special guest, Melanie Lyon's grandmother, Missilanda Lamonia. With
1:47
Speaker 1: me an all star panel. But first I want you
1:49
Speaker 1: to take a listen to this Oh love Jews christ
2:18
Speaker 1: Walmart on the flock. Yeah, he just heard, uh not
2:53
Speaker 1: just natural sound, that sound of what happened in the
2:56
Speaker 1: local Walmart. That was actually post on Facebook live as
3:03
Speaker 1: it was happening. So not only did these perps, there's
3:09
Speaker 1: really no other word for them stab the little girl
3:12
Speaker 1: in Walmart. They posted it and the way they talked
3:18
Speaker 1: about her, We just stabbed that. And I'm just gonna
3:23
Speaker 1: say it like I would have to tell a jury,
3:25
Speaker 1: we just stabbed that bitch in her heart. We don't
3:28
Speaker 1: give a a little fifteen year old girl with me
3:36
Speaker 1: an All Star panel. Stephanie Pogonis, reporter Fox Business and
3:40
Speaker 1: Fox News. Phil Chalmer's true crime writer, counter homicide trainer,
3:46
Speaker 1: author of Inside the Mind of a Teen Killer and
3:49
Speaker 1: The Teen Killer Whisperer. Doctor Tim Gallagher, the medical examiner
3:55
Speaker 1: for the State of Florida at pathcaremad dot com. Robert Crispin,
3:59
Speaker 1: private eye, longtime in law enforcement, now runs Crispin Investigations
4:05
Speaker 1: dot com. Doctor Jen host of Couples Therapy VH one,
4:08
Speaker 1: the Doctor Jin Show series XIM and author of the
4:12
Speaker 1: Relationship Fixed on Amazon. Wendy Patrick, California prosecutor, author I've
4:17
Speaker 1: Read Flags and host of today with doctor Wendy on
4:21
Speaker 1: KC BQ. You can find her at Wendy Patrick PhD
4:24
Speaker 1: dot com. But first I want to go to our
4:27
Speaker 1: very special guest, and that is the grandmother of Melanie Lyons,
4:31
Speaker 1: just fifteen years old, missy Alanda Lamonia, ma'am, thank you
4:37
Speaker 1: for being with us, Miss Lamonia. I'm just imagining you
4:47
Speaker 1: on the front road. Behind me is I'm giving an
4:50
Speaker 1: opening statement to a jury. And it hurts me that
4:55
Speaker 1: you heard those girls running out of Walmar talking that
5:01
Speaker 1: way about your granddaughter. And I felt much the same
5:08
Speaker 1: way when I went to the murder trial when my
5:10
Speaker 1: fiancee was murdered and I saw the way that people
5:14
Speaker 1: were handling his bloody clothes. They meant so much to
5:18
Speaker 1: me and they meant so little to them. When you
5:24
Speaker 1: hear that audio footage, what, Miss Lamonia, what goes through
5:29
Speaker 1: your mind? Hurt? Pain, unimaginable pain, hurt. This is my
5:41
Speaker 1: first time hearing it. Bill betrayal. I can't even explain.
5:53
Speaker 1: It also hurts me, miss Yolanda, because they don't seem
5:57
Speaker 1: to have any remorse. They're not upset at all. They're almost,
6:03
Speaker 1: well not almost, they're gleeful, a bunch of paintings. Tell
6:13
Speaker 1: me something I want to hear about Melanie in life.
6:20
Speaker 1: Tell me about her as a girl, because she just
6:23
Speaker 1: I know, she loved riding horses, she loved music. I
6:28
Speaker 1: know a lot about her, but I want to know more. Melanie.
6:34
Speaker 1: Her fath course was January twenty seven oh six. Melanie
6:39
Speaker 1: is the second daughter of my son Diedrick Lines. Melanie
6:46
Speaker 1: lived in Late Charles but my son and her mother
6:50
Speaker 1: had John Carson John Classidy. Of course, my son being disabled,
6:53
Speaker 1: I disabled veteran PDSDS lived with me and so Melanie
6:59
Speaker 1: spot lots of time time here in what we call
7:02
Speaker 1: the country. The country is a little area outside the
7:05
Speaker 1: city Donald Gravel Road where you can find horses walking
7:09
Speaker 1: into front yard. You have chickens, you have goats, you
7:12
Speaker 1: have ducks and I mean everything. She stays together like
7:16
Speaker 1: one little family. Well this is what Melanie enjoyment was.
7:21
Speaker 1: She would get up in the morning, of course, and
7:24
Speaker 1: her things to jump on, get on a pair of
7:26
Speaker 1: boots on matter if it was my carboard boots, her
7:29
Speaker 1: grandfather carboard boots, any boots she's available, she gets on.
7:33
Speaker 1: The ranger was custo lot utunity vehicle or the four roll.
7:37
Speaker 1: Is she going to back and should feed the animals.
7:40
Speaker 1: It was her day all day. She rides back and
7:42
Speaker 1: forth on the range and outside in the pasture with
7:45
Speaker 1: the animals. And this was melanie routine every day when
7:50
Speaker 1: she was here in the country. Of course, Melanie was
7:55
Speaker 1: kind of quiet, on the quiet side of reserved, very compassionate.
8:03
Speaker 1: She didn't talk very much and she was able to
8:07
Speaker 1: get her point across. Melanie. She was very attached to
8:11
Speaker 1: her grandmother, and it's like she wanted to be a grandmother.
8:15
Speaker 1: It's like she's seen herself. I mean, I'd also seen
8:18
Speaker 1: myself and her. She U wouldn't mingle much. She came
8:25
Speaker 1: to live with me, went to schooling Welsh Louisiana. When
8:30
Speaker 1: she reached the age of unhen she was in sixth grade.
8:37
Speaker 1: Melanie enjoyed school here. She enjoyed riding the bus because
8:41
Speaker 1: she was used to riding the bus, drop off on
8:43
Speaker 1: the grab the road. She would get off and immediately
8:47
Speaker 1: coming the house and take I read that all school
8:49
Speaker 1: clothes off, change out and get on her pro carboy
8:52
Speaker 1: buns belt booker. I mean, she was on top of
8:54
Speaker 1: the world. This was her one day two weeks after
8:57
Speaker 1: she started schooling. Welch. She came home, she's she had
9:00
Speaker 1: a little tide bear in her hand. She had a
9:02
Speaker 1: little note in her hand, and I come in. She said,
9:05
Speaker 1: my mom, this is for you. I say, what do
9:07
Speaker 1: you mean? This is for me? I say, what is it?
9:09
Speaker 1: She said, here? And I received the tedded bear former
9:12
Speaker 1: and I opened a little note. But that is dear Melanie.
9:16
Speaker 1: I love you? Do you love me? This my number?
9:20
Speaker 1: Call me after homework. And I said, well, Melanie, come back.
9:23
Speaker 1: This is a little boy, right. I wanted that, my
9:26
Speaker 1: little boy. Hen So I took it and I put
9:28
Speaker 1: it on the shelf in the little room and I
9:31
Speaker 1: left it there just to see him. Charlie see what
9:32
Speaker 1: she was gonna go back and read it. I go
9:34
Speaker 1: back and take it and called a number and sit
9:36
Speaker 1: there and sit there for months until one of my
9:38
Speaker 1: little grandsons came and he decided he wanted to take
9:41
Speaker 1: the head off whatever he's playing with it. He wanted
9:46
Speaker 1: to open it for candy and it. But Melanie, I've
9:49
Speaker 1: never heard of race a voice. Even when I correct
9:52
Speaker 1: one things, Melanie never fasst back. She never had anything
9:57
Speaker 1: to say. And when she did something wrong, and I
10:00
Speaker 1: would raise my boys. She would never cry, but there's
10:03
Speaker 1: always a little till. And in return she would come
10:07
Speaker 1: and she would either geta a little piece of king,
10:09
Speaker 1: or give my grass for water, picks me some my
10:11
Speaker 1: favorite coup later or something and bring it to me
10:13
Speaker 1: because she realized that she hurt my mom feelings. Melanie, Um,
10:19
Speaker 1: of course you got. We went on through the year.
10:22
Speaker 1: She ended up going back home. Her mom wanted her
10:24
Speaker 1: to come and stay, and I asked her a year
10:29
Speaker 1: after she stayed with her mom, can she come back?
10:31
Speaker 1: A little boy came when he want the oldest son.
10:34
Speaker 1: He wants to come back and stay of the country.
10:36
Speaker 1: And I said, well, Melody, what do you want to do?
10:37
Speaker 1: I say, Melody, do you want to come back and stay?
10:39
Speaker 1: She said, but I do m I said, well, a Melody,
10:45
Speaker 1: you can play sports. And then we got sports and
10:47
Speaker 1: things to go on. She did on more. I just
10:48
Speaker 1: wanted to be to be out there and just be
10:50
Speaker 1: I in the country, she said. I want to drive.
10:53
Speaker 1: And then because we had a little range is more
10:55
Speaker 1: like a little car, he said, I just want to
10:57
Speaker 1: be out there in the country, and I just want
10:58
Speaker 1: to drive and just be out here, I said, Melanie
11:01
Speaker 1: got little things for little girls to do. They have
11:02
Speaker 1: little dances, they have look things to me to go too.
11:05
Speaker 1: Of course you would go to the movies, but her
11:08
Speaker 1: grandfather and I would take them to the movies, and
11:10
Speaker 1: we would bring them to the movies and and we
11:13
Speaker 1: would go shit way in the top because in the
11:16
Speaker 1: movies they kick in the back of the chair. Is
11:17
Speaker 1: no peace with them, the kids going to be kids.
11:21
Speaker 1: But Melanie never got into any she went to school,
11:25
Speaker 1: she never got into anything. Never had to be in
11:28
Speaker 1: the sons of the authors or no notes from home
11:31
Speaker 1: like the kids or anything. She was just a little
11:34
Speaker 1: choir reserve, nor melonie loving little Melanie climb stories with
11:47
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace, guys with me as our very special guest,
11:53
Speaker 1: as Yolanda Lamonia, Miss Lamonia, as Melanie Lion's grandma. And
12:03
Speaker 1: when you talked about the gravel road, it reminded me
12:06
Speaker 1: of the dirt road, the red dirt road I grew
12:10
Speaker 1: up on. And the way you're describing Melanie, you know,
12:14
Speaker 1: with horses and chickens, and we didn't think anything about
12:17
Speaker 1: singing a chicken in somebody's yard. And I mean that's
12:21
Speaker 1: just the way we grew up. And now you know,
12:25
Speaker 1: if city residents saw a chicken in somebody's yard did
12:30
Speaker 1: do a backflip, you know, they they just don't get
12:33
Speaker 1: it right. And the way you're describing Melanie just reminds
12:37
Speaker 1: me so much of Lucy, my little girl. She brought
12:42
Speaker 1: home a note from some little boy said the same thing,
12:47
Speaker 1: I love you? Do you love me? Chick? Yes? No.
12:50
Speaker 1: She folded it up and put it away, and she's
12:52
Speaker 1: never never looked at it again. It just reminded me
12:55
Speaker 1: so much of her, and my grandmother, who I also
13:00
Speaker 1: called Mama, helped raise us. My grandmother Lucy that I'm
13:05
Speaker 1: named my daughter after. And so the things you're telling
13:08
Speaker 1: me just sound like a wonderful childhood, just idealic and
13:17
Speaker 1: it just doesn't jive Miss Lammonia with what happened to her.
13:22
Speaker 1: I just who were these horrible girls that chased her?
13:29
Speaker 1: I don't mean their names. I know their names. I'm
13:32
Speaker 1: not going to say them because they're juveniles. But who
13:35
Speaker 1: were they to Melanie? Were they in the same class,
13:39
Speaker 1: the same school? Why did they hate Melanie? I have
13:43
Speaker 1: no answers for that. I know Melanie doing to hurt Melanie.
13:50
Speaker 1: I don't mind the steady Melanie. You really know, there
13:52
Speaker 1: was more or less on prints with Melanie's a little
13:55
Speaker 1: sister and in the past, Melanie a little sister in
13:59
Speaker 1: one of these girls, I'm gonna call it a perpetrator
14:03
Speaker 1: had under the altercation. It wasn't physical, but Melanie's mom
14:08
Speaker 1: went to go like a mother and discuss the altercation
14:13
Speaker 1: with the other momm Well, okay, the perpetrator's mom decides
14:21
Speaker 1: she wants to get physical. So Melanie's mom tols and
14:27
Speaker 1: they went on back home and they tried to resolved
14:29
Speaker 1: they see them, but he couldn't resolve it. So this
14:31
Speaker 1: had been an ongoing little dispute. Was the hurricane and
14:36
Speaker 1: the pandemic can all come into it. I kind of lost.
14:40
Speaker 1: I'm with Melanie. She wasn't coming as much because my
14:43
Speaker 1: arm had my husband and all, and then social distances
14:48
Speaker 1: and this pandemic had everything was just an uproar. So
14:51
Speaker 1: Melanie was there, so it was only communicate through phone
14:54
Speaker 1: and texts. Well, when the hurricane came to Louisiana and
14:58
Speaker 1: then the second hurricane they had, Melanie and her family
15:01
Speaker 1: become displaced. So Melanie went through New Orleans and from
15:05
Speaker 1: New Orleans they end up in Dallas. So when I
15:07
Speaker 1: heard back from Melanie, she was in Dallas, and so,
15:10
Speaker 1: being that wasn't communicate only through phone and text, Melanie
15:14
Speaker 1: called me on her birthday and she was like, my mom,
15:19
Speaker 1: where are you doing? I say, where are you being?
15:22
Speaker 1: She says my birthday? And I was like, oh my, Melanie,
15:25
Speaker 1: I know it's your birthday. Really who does that? And
15:28
Speaker 1: she started to assen and and I was like, she said,
15:31
Speaker 1: I said, what are you going to do? She's like,
15:33
Speaker 1: I'm mother the movies. I say, well, Melanie, who are
15:35
Speaker 1: going to the movies? She said all of us? And
15:37
Speaker 1: I was like, yeah, but you better be careful because
15:39
Speaker 1: they got the pandemic out there. To make sure y'all.
15:40
Speaker 1: I wear y'all a mask because I said kids were
15:42
Speaker 1: spreading the virus. And she just laughed and she's like,
15:45
Speaker 1: oh wppo. I said, he's right here. She said tell
15:48
Speaker 1: him I love your mama. I love you too, and
15:49
Speaker 1: she moves a little kids and she hung up in
15:53
Speaker 1: My husband and how I'll be continued out doing we
15:55
Speaker 1: had to do. We had to go make sure, we
15:56
Speaker 1: gonna shoot and do other things. It's some Hartsteed and
15:59
Speaker 1: I got a call back about about an hour or
16:02
Speaker 1: two later and it was from Nelande's lam and she
16:06
Speaker 1: was faked mister Lane because he called me miss Lamb.
16:10
Speaker 1: Melanie just got stabbed at Walmart. Ilanie got stamped at Walmart.
16:15
Speaker 1: I think that, I said, when anotherane got stabbed at Walmart.
16:17
Speaker 1: Mother is at the movies. She said, when she got
16:21
Speaker 1: stabbed at Mommart. And they're bringing into the hospital. So
16:23
Speaker 1: I who up the phone. I started putting my clothes
16:25
Speaker 1: on and everything, and I told my husband's life Anoanie
16:28
Speaker 1: got a stabbed. I don't know how serious it is,
16:30
Speaker 1: but we need to go to the hospital. So by
16:33
Speaker 1: time I got out to sell, let me call her
16:35
Speaker 1: back to mom back. So I called him mom back
16:37
Speaker 1: and I was like, well anything, how she she said,
16:39
Speaker 1: like it's serious. They told me they don't want him
16:41
Speaker 1: in the back. They just told me that they're working
16:43
Speaker 1: on a like working on a tub. Look at my
16:46
Speaker 1: husband and that Needately, I turned a television on when
16:49
Speaker 1: I had the news flash homicide at high Highway fourteen
16:53
Speaker 1: and late Chaws Walmart. Look at my husband's life homicide.
16:58
Speaker 1: I called Melanie my back and she said, yes, she's gone.
17:04
Speaker 1: They chilled my baby on her birthday I just went
17:09
Speaker 1: to pieces. It's just unbelievable because I just spoke with Melanie.
17:17
Speaker 1: Half of was she went to the movies. She got
17:20
Speaker 1: to the movies. The Little Sister. They paid to for
17:25
Speaker 1: the movies. They paid their fee for the movies. They
17:27
Speaker 1: they see that a Marble Girls was there up, which
17:29
Speaker 1: Melanie really didn't know the girls marb was there. They started,
17:35
Speaker 1: Let's run, Let's go, let's go, Let's go where they
17:37
Speaker 1: got light at. So when they come outside, they went
17:40
Speaker 1: to the Let's go to Walmart, so they ran to Walmart.
17:43
Speaker 1: So of course when they got in Walmart, Melanie went on.
17:48
Speaker 1: She was in Walmart with on the birthday fees and
17:52
Speaker 1: her movie fees and her birthday money. She proceeds buy
17:57
Speaker 1: can and buy things in the Walmart. I don't know.
18:02
Speaker 1: We're transpired. After that, I don't know. I didn't see
18:07
Speaker 1: any of the videos. I was able to refuse to
18:09
Speaker 1: see any of them. My daughter in Melanie's aunt and
18:15
Speaker 1: uncles was playing a video in the house where I
18:17
Speaker 1: can hear him. The only thing that I heard on
18:20
Speaker 1: the video was Melanie's screamed. She say, I'm believing I
18:24
Speaker 1: did hear that part and that it's all of her.
18:29
Speaker 1: I didn't see anything or anything in I don't understand.
18:36
Speaker 1: I couldn't figure out wherever it's everybody in Walmart? What's
18:40
Speaker 1: the shoppers, where's the security? Then I started heard he
18:45
Speaker 1: advent in pieces of a story like the little girl's
18:47
Speaker 1: in a warm or they charged their cell phones. They
18:51
Speaker 1: communicate on the cellphones like walking talking and it's just
18:54
Speaker 1: the only without and retreat the knife and to feel
19:02
Speaker 1: the need to she need the in Melody's life. And
19:11
Speaker 1: two days later after this, three days later, my daughter
19:17
Speaker 1: went in over to Melody's mom my things over to
19:21
Speaker 1: try to comfort her and the little sisters. That and Breton,
19:26
Speaker 1: I need to talk to you, he told Breton. She says,
19:29
Speaker 1: and any the girls didn't come to fight. Melody came
19:37
Speaker 1: to fight me. Melodie didn't know. So you're telling me
19:48
Speaker 1: these girls twelve thirteen and fourteen or after Melanie's little sister,
19:55
Speaker 1: I would I understand, and back when the mother, when
20:03
Speaker 1: the mother went to the accusers how to try to
20:09
Speaker 1: resolve the matter. Melody at that time was hearing and
20:13
Speaker 1: like I say, the country with me, Miss Lamanna. Since
20:21
Speaker 1: the time of her death after the Walmart attack, what
20:28
Speaker 1: has been going through your mind. M let's just try
20:34
Speaker 1: to trying to process it, um, trying to figure out
20:39
Speaker 1: how can a thirteen year old have so much anger,
20:45
Speaker 1: so much anger to still the need to use a
20:49
Speaker 1: knife to end someone else's life. As I was getting pieces,
20:56
Speaker 1: they was telling me the video on you know the
20:58
Speaker 1: language they was using Melanie, I've never heard Melanie used
21:02
Speaker 1: that type language at all. Like I said, he really
21:05
Speaker 1: spoke and for them the approach Melody with that type language.
21:10
Speaker 1: I mean, Melanie was scared and she knew being as
21:14
Speaker 1: she ran for Walmart at that time. They didn't come
21:16
Speaker 1: to shake her head nor hookah. It was kind of
21:20
Speaker 1: with something else in your mind, and she had to
21:21
Speaker 1: prepare herself. Do you feel that Melanie has tried to
21:30
Speaker 1: contact you or give you peace after her death? A
21:39
Speaker 1: sign peace? I do have peace with it. I lost
21:43
Speaker 1: our daughter at eight years old. Her name was Delane
21:47
Speaker 1: Nicole Lines. Melanie name is Melanie's Delane Lines. And I
21:53
Speaker 1: feel like Molie was here God gave her to me.
21:57
Speaker 1: Paul Walt, I love her, but he loved the victor
22:02
Speaker 1: he loved the most. And I feel like she's in
22:05
Speaker 1: a better place than a better Farty and I I've
22:08
Speaker 1: confident no one because she left me with fond memories,
22:15
Speaker 1: I'd be able to go on. What do you think,
22:19
Speaker 1: Miss Lamonia, should happen to these girls their ages twelve, thirteen,
22:25
Speaker 1: thirteen and fourteen. I feel less though, I mean, I
22:30
Speaker 1: know what the doing off systems. It's to the age
22:34
Speaker 1: of twenty one, and all of them in coming together
22:38
Speaker 1: will only be a matter of seventy years. And even
22:43
Speaker 1: with that, they have like um programs in place where
22:48
Speaker 1: they can go through the programs and get out on
22:50
Speaker 1: good behavior. Per se. I feel like a perpetrator should
22:57
Speaker 1: spend every day for a juvenile sentence in the juveniles
23:05
Speaker 1: to teaching facility by herself with the Bible and a
23:09
Speaker 1: picture melody. Amen to that, Miss Slammonia. What is your message,
23:15
Speaker 1: Miss Slammonia, to other parents, to me, I'm a parent
23:20
Speaker 1: of two thirteen year old children, a message not only
23:25
Speaker 1: to the parents or to the community that I stand
23:31
Speaker 1: firm as well as open minded to any steps in
23:34
Speaker 1: the community as a whole to take back on you.
23:40
Speaker 1: It's time It's time to go in. Open those cell phones,
23:45
Speaker 1: look at those clausets, pull up those natresses, look in
23:51
Speaker 1: the shoe boxes, it's time to get involved and take
23:57
Speaker 1: back all kids and our youth. So I would hate
24:01
Speaker 1: to see another Melonie. The meteor is raising the kids
24:07
Speaker 1: hard to take them back. Miss Ammonia. Please know that
24:13
Speaker 1: ever since I heard about Melanie Delna, I heard about you,
24:20
Speaker 1: You've been mentioned and every time she's mentioned in your
24:25
Speaker 1: connection to her is so strong. So many people, including
24:31
Speaker 1: myself and my family, I've been praying about you and
24:37
Speaker 1: about Melanie. I just know that for what bit of
24:43
Speaker 1: encouragement it is deep in prayer for her family, including you.
25:02
Speaker 1: Climb stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, we were talking about
25:06
Speaker 1: the death of just a beautiful young girl. Her name
25:11
Speaker 1: Melanie Delightne Alliance as you heard, raised up in the country,
25:16
Speaker 1: and as soon as she was in big city living,
25:19
Speaker 1: everything went sideways in the worst way. Take a listen
25:24
Speaker 1: to this, mohamma anyhow, and I don't give really got
25:30
Speaker 1: Wait if he killed killed, did she killed she kill nobody?
25:38
Speaker 1: If she killed she kill the beach, Oh no she
25:41
Speaker 1: did not. We means they knew it. But but yeah,
25:50
Speaker 1: we're sorry. We're sorry for saying everything. Girl, yah know,
25:53
Speaker 1: I mean say ya know, we're not getting my wife.
25:58
Speaker 1: I just start going off, but I'm just saying, yeah, sorry, Yeah.
26:03
Speaker 1: We saw women say Aali. We apologized, Yeah, I told him,
26:18
Speaker 1: We're sorry. But then they go on to say, just
26:21
Speaker 1: stabbed somebody at Walmart. We just stadd that bcch in
26:26
Speaker 1: her heart and we don't give an f It goes
26:30
Speaker 1: on and on and on, and what you're hearing is
26:34
Speaker 1: later postings after the stabbing photos video continuing to be
26:41
Speaker 1: posted straight out to Stephanie Pogona's digital reporter, Fox Business
26:46
Speaker 1: and Fox News. Stephanie, first of all, to you and
26:48
Speaker 1: the rest of the panel, I want to thank you
26:51
Speaker 1: for being with us and waiting until I finished speaking
26:54
Speaker 1: with the grandma and Slimonia because I didn't want her
26:59
Speaker 1: to hear everything that we were going to talk about
27:01
Speaker 1: and it would make her hurt even more. So thank
27:04
Speaker 1: you for being so gracious, Stephanie, And to the rest
27:07
Speaker 1: of you. Stephanie, what's happening to the four girls and
27:13
Speaker 1: if you could tell us what you know went down
27:17
Speaker 1: that night? Absolutely, it's so like you said, and like
27:21
Speaker 1: miss Lamonia said, there was a fight at a movie theater.
27:24
Speaker 1: It seemed to continue to the lake Charles Walmart. As
27:28
Speaker 1: you can hear in that awful, heartbreaking video fight breaks out.
27:33
Speaker 1: These four girls, not all of them are even teenagers.
27:37
Speaker 1: One is a preteen twelve years old. They allegedly begin
27:41
Speaker 1: to attack this fifteen year old victim, Melanie, with might
27:46
Speaker 1: I add, a weapon that appears to have been stolen
27:49
Speaker 1: from the Walmart according to police, and then they seemed
27:53
Speaker 1: to go on and brag about it in video. So
27:56
Speaker 1: I was just speaking with the Sheriff's office this morning,
28:00
Speaker 1: and they will not tell me because of these four
28:03
Speaker 1: perpetrators ages whether they are still in custody. They also
28:07
Speaker 1: will not share with me whether any of these girls
28:10
Speaker 1: have a criminal history, but I will say that within
28:14
Speaker 1: I believe it was three hours of this stabbing in
28:17
Speaker 1: the Walmart, police had already identified at least one of
28:20
Speaker 1: the suspects, had her name, had her photograph, and they
28:24
Speaker 1: so far have really attributed that to the social media activity.
28:29
Speaker 1: You know, if they were adults, Wendy Patrick, I would say,
28:33
Speaker 1: what a bunch of idjits for posting their crimes online.
28:36
Speaker 1: But these are not adults. I know for a fact.
28:40
Speaker 1: The two thirteen year olds, one of them charged with
28:45
Speaker 1: the actual martyr wielding the knife, and the fourteen year
28:49
Speaker 1: old can be tried as adults, and I'm not sure
28:52
Speaker 1: in that jurisdiction whether the twelve year old cannot be
28:55
Speaker 1: tried as an adult. That would mean most jurisdictions is
29:00
Speaker 1: that they would be tried for murder as a group,
29:03
Speaker 1: all for one and one for all. They would serve
29:07
Speaker 1: eighteen to twenty one and give jail, then they'd be
29:11
Speaker 1: transferred to adult jail. What do you think is going
29:13
Speaker 1: to happen, Wendy Patrick, Yeah, you know, you chewed it
29:17
Speaker 1: up to exactly right. Those are the issues that of
29:18
Speaker 1: court's going to look at it with respect to what's
29:21
Speaker 1: going to happen to these kids. There will be much
29:24
Speaker 1: made of the reality that they actually, as Miss Lamonius said,
29:28
Speaker 1: they appeared to be raised by the social media, and
29:31
Speaker 1: one wonders whether that desensitization will be raised by the
29:35
Speaker 1: defense as some sort of a mitigant to their behavior.
29:38
Speaker 1: On the other hand, that you and I as prosecutors
29:41
Speaker 1: could see how the bragging afterwards being a sign at
29:44
Speaker 1: the time might exactly be the type of aggravan that
29:48
Speaker 1: might lead a you know them, to argue in court
29:51
Speaker 1: that these girls knew exactly what they were doing and
29:53
Speaker 1: therefore should be charged as adults if, as you say,
29:57
Speaker 1: that's permissible in the jurisdiction. So I think it both ways.
30:01
Speaker 1: That horrific video that they made afterwards bragging about the crime,
30:05
Speaker 1: joining me doctor Tim Gallagher Medical exam or the State
30:08
Speaker 1: off Florida at PATHCAREMD dot com dotor Gallagher. As I recall,
30:13
Speaker 1: the little girl was stabbed in the upper torso possibly
30:16
Speaker 1: the neck. Would she have even been alive at the
30:21
Speaker 1: time she got to the hospital or would this have
30:23
Speaker 1: been a sudden death? Well, it certainly a difficult to knowing.
30:27
Speaker 1: It may have actually been closer to the heart. Jackie's
30:30
Speaker 1: telling me brick, yes, go ahead right. It's actually without
30:35
Speaker 1: exact details on where she was stabbed and what organs
30:38
Speaker 1: were injured, is difficult to say. If she was stabbed
30:42
Speaker 1: in her lung for instant that that lung cavity would
30:47
Speaker 1: begin to fill up with blood, but she would have
30:50
Speaker 1: the use of her other lung which would prolong her life.
30:54
Speaker 1: So if she was just stabbed in the lung, then yes,
30:56
Speaker 1: it would be very reasonable to expect that she was
30:59
Speaker 1: alive when she went to the hospital. If she was
31:02
Speaker 1: stabbed directly in the heart, no chances are she would
31:07
Speaker 1: have desanguinated or bled out probably within thirty seconds or
31:15
Speaker 1: or certainly less than a minute, you know. But one
31:17
Speaker 1: point that I do want to make you know, while
31:19
Speaker 1: we do have the listeners that you know again that
31:22
Speaker 1: we we criticize Walmart and Target, you know, for coming
31:26
Speaker 1: into our neighborhoods and kind of taking over, but a
31:30
Speaker 1: lot of crimes have been solved by the video surveillance
31:33
Speaker 1: cameras that they have, and we see that in our
31:36
Speaker 1: office quite often, that suspects are caught quite readily, quite
31:42
Speaker 1: frequently and quite h quite vast because of the video
31:46
Speaker 1: surveillance cameras that these superstores used, you know, and we
31:52
Speaker 1: are we have access to that, and then we can
31:54
Speaker 1: actually corroborate the injuries, who did what At the time,
32:00
Speaker 1: I'm of autopsy, so I just want to comment on
32:03
Speaker 1: their good, high quality surveillance systems that they use in
32:08
Speaker 1: capturing these suspects. I said a million times, Doctor Gallagher
32:12
Speaker 1: that NASA could take hints from Target and Walmart regarding
32:15
Speaker 1: their video. You're absolutely correct, and that was the case
32:20
Speaker 1: here as well, and also thanks to them posting it online.
32:24
Speaker 1: Doctor jen Man, you can find her not only on
32:27
Speaker 1: serious except she's also the author of Relationship Fixed on Amazon.
32:31
Speaker 1: Doctor jan I'm just thinking about this girl who was
32:34
Speaker 1: really not even a part of this fight. It was
32:37
Speaker 1: they were coming after the little sister, according to the grandmother,
32:41
Speaker 1: and what she went through. She's unarmed in a walmart,
32:45
Speaker 1: there's nobody around to help, and she's lying there on
32:49
Speaker 1: the floor, attacked by this girl gang twelve, thirteen, thirteen,
32:54
Speaker 1: and fourteen years old. And they sound wild old. They
33:00
Speaker 1: just sound wild, almost gleeful. I think one of the
33:06
Speaker 1: things that stands out to me. And you know, this
33:10
Speaker 1: poor girl's grandmother, you know, you can just hear this
33:14
Speaker 1: sorrow at the heartbreak in her voice, and she said,
33:17
Speaker 1: you know, where did the anger come from? With these girls?
33:21
Speaker 1: To me as a therapist, it's not just where did
33:23
Speaker 1: the anger come from, but where did the lack of
33:26
Speaker 1: a conscience come from? And typically that comes from one
33:30
Speaker 1: of two places. It's either nature or nurtured. You know,
33:33
Speaker 1: there are these rare cases where someone is just born
33:37
Speaker 1: without a conscience, but that's highly, highly unusual, and that
33:42
Speaker 1: this group of girls all found each other. What it
33:46
Speaker 1: makes me wonder is what in the world was going
33:48
Speaker 1: on at home? Because we are typically born with empathy.
33:53
Speaker 1: We are born with an understanding of when we inflict pain,
33:58
Speaker 1: what that pain feels like for another person. But what
34:01
Speaker 1: stands out to me as a therapist is this group
34:04
Speaker 1: of girls. These young girls have no conscience, have no empathy,
34:09
Speaker 1: and that is quite shocking. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace
34:25
Speaker 1: to Phil Schalmer is true crime writer or counter homicide trainer,
34:29
Speaker 1: or criminal profiler and author of Inside the Mind of
34:33
Speaker 1: a Teen Killer and The Team Killer Whisperer on Amazon. Phil,
34:39
Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. I want to hear
34:40
Speaker 1: your thoughts on this. Sure. Wow, it's first of all,
34:43
Speaker 1: it's sad, and I appreciate having the victim's family own
34:47
Speaker 1: because that keeps us centered on why we all do
34:49
Speaker 1: what we do. This is not just about cases and crimes.
34:53
Speaker 1: It's about hurting families, and that's why I do what
34:56
Speaker 1: I do. My top two causes of why kids kill,
35:00
Speaker 1: you know doing this for thirty five years is there's
35:03
Speaker 1: two things no father, the fatherless home and an unstable home.
35:07
Speaker 1: And as the last guest just said, I think there's
35:10
Speaker 1: got to be something at home, and that's what the
35:12
Speaker 1: sheriff setting this press conference set. This starts at home,
35:15
Speaker 1: and we all as a community. They've had like multiple
35:17
Speaker 1: team murders there in the last few months in that county.
35:20
Speaker 1: And it starts at home. And so that's what we're doing,
35:23
Speaker 1: trying to trying to do this work to trying to
35:25
Speaker 1: get parents to get more involved in mister. Of course
35:31
Speaker 1: people learn behavior at home. But um, I guess the
35:36
Speaker 1: divorce stats are over fifty percent of American marriages and
35:40
Speaker 1: a divorce, So the number of abused children as skyrocketed.
35:48
Speaker 1: But those children are not committing teen murders. These are
35:55
Speaker 1: so I think you can blame mommy and daddy just
35:58
Speaker 1: so far. I mean, the first thing out of your mouth, Chalmers,
36:03
Speaker 1: is home. Yeah, of course behavior is learned at home,
36:08
Speaker 1: but not stabbing somebody dead in the aisle of the walmart.
36:12
Speaker 1: You don't learn that at home. It is it's shocking,
36:15
Speaker 1: and you know it takes a multiple causes contribute to this,
36:19
Speaker 1: but it does start at home. And you know, a
36:22
Speaker 1: kid raising a good home usually doesn't end up in
36:25
Speaker 1: this situation. But you're you're right. I mean I was
36:28
Speaker 1: raising an abuse at home as well, and I turned
36:30
Speaker 1: out to be a law abiding citizen. So that happens
36:32
Speaker 1: a lot. But if you have enough of these contributing factors,
36:37
Speaker 1: you can head down this way and this is a
36:39
Speaker 1: very violent generation. Fiveteen murders a day every day in
36:43
Speaker 1: this country, and you know we have to do a
36:46
Speaker 1: better job at trying to prevent these crimes. To Robert Crispin,
36:49
Speaker 1: private eye, former law enforcement, you can find him at
36:51
Speaker 1: Crispin's Investigations dot com. Robert, you were a law enforcement
36:58
Speaker 1: before you became a PI, and during your time as
37:02
Speaker 1: law enforcement, you saw a lot of juvenile crime. Sometimes
37:07
Speaker 1: I have argued to juries that juvenile felons are even
37:10
Speaker 1: worse than adult felons because they haven't even formed a
37:14
Speaker 1: conscious yet. They don't completely grasp how awful what they're
37:20
Speaker 1: doing is. Like an adult would have some awareness that
37:26
Speaker 1: they could get the death penalty or go to jail
37:28
Speaker 1: for the rest of their life. They're taking another human's
37:31
Speaker 1: life away. They're causing intense pain and awake of suffering.
37:36
Speaker 1: An adult may have an inkling of all that at
37:40
Speaker 1: the time of a murder or before a murder, but juveniles,
37:44
Speaker 1: they're invincible. They don't get it. So sometimes I think
37:47
Speaker 1: that makes them even more dangerous. It does, and some
37:51
Speaker 1: of the issues is in some of these video games.
37:55
Speaker 1: Believe it or not, these video games that these juveniles
37:57
Speaker 1: are playing glorified killing, well by shooting people in the head.
38:03
Speaker 1: Any type of video games that are out there, not
38:06
Speaker 1: up to speed on a whole bunch of them. But
38:08
Speaker 1: there's a lot of video games out there that parents
38:11
Speaker 1: don't even want their kids playing because they glorify homicide,
38:15
Speaker 1: They glorify beating people up. These kids don't have a
38:18
Speaker 1: perception of what reality is and they don't realize that,
38:21
Speaker 1: you know, walking in and stabbing someone in the heart
38:24
Speaker 1: is putting them in prison. They don't realize that it's
38:27
Speaker 1: ending their life, and they don't realize the traumatic you know,
38:32
Speaker 1: things that are happening to their families. It's over and
38:35
Speaker 1: it's all because they think it's reality because they see
38:38
Speaker 1: it on video games. They see it with all their
38:40
Speaker 1: friends talking about it, not realizing what the ramifications are
38:44
Speaker 1: of all this. Do you agree with that, Phil Chalmers, Oh,
38:47
Speaker 1: definitely do. It's video games, but it's it's the entire
38:51
Speaker 1: I was telling you that, not who I'm going to
38:53
Speaker 1: ensue that. It's the violent culture these kids live in.
38:56
Speaker 1: The videos that they watch NonStop on YouTube of people
38:59
Speaker 1: being assaulted and beaten and leaken. As you've heard, it's
39:03
Speaker 1: the video games, it's the violent music videos. Listen, we
39:07
Speaker 1: all grew up in a kinder, gentler time. The rape, torture,
39:12
Speaker 1: sodomy and murder that these kids are groping is unheard of.
39:15
Speaker 1: Does it affect all kids? Know? Doesn't affect some kids? Absolutely?
39:19
Speaker 1: To Stephanie pegun as digital reporter, Fox Business and Fox News,
39:24
Speaker 1: Stephanie again, thank you for being with us, What's going
39:26
Speaker 1: to happen to the purpse? So that's a good question,
39:29
Speaker 1: and it really depends on how the court system chooses
39:34
Speaker 1: to go forward with these young women, especially considering their age.
39:39
Speaker 1: Whether they're tried an adult court as adults were as juveniles,
39:43
Speaker 1: it will make a world at difference in this case.
39:45
Speaker 1: I believed Stephanie Paguna said, if they're tried as juveniles,
39:50
Speaker 1: I mean to max say, the very max I could
39:53
Speaker 1: get would be till they're twenty one, and of course
39:56
Speaker 1: that would be seven years for the thirteen year old,
39:59
Speaker 1: six years for the four no, eight years, then seven
40:03
Speaker 1: years and then for one nine years. I doubt they
40:06
Speaker 1: would even do that long. Another thing to consider here
40:09
Speaker 1: and a question that I don't have the answer to
40:12
Speaker 1: But you've got to wonder is the criminal history that
40:15
Speaker 1: any of these young girls have. The fact that and
40:19
Speaker 1: I don't have an answer to this, but the fact
40:21
Speaker 1: that the police department knew one of these teenager's names
40:25
Speaker 1: before they even arrested her, it makes you wonder whether
40:30
Speaker 1: she did have a history, and if so, that could
40:32
Speaker 1: contribute to any sort of discipline going Well, I can't
40:35
Speaker 1: guarantee you, Stephanie Pulgogness, your instinct is correct. There is
40:38
Speaker 1: no way in hubl that this is the very first
40:44
Speaker 1: brush with the law for at least one of these girls.
40:48
Speaker 1: You don't just go from reading a book in the
40:50
Speaker 1: library to stealing a knife off a display at Walmart
40:53
Speaker 1: and stabbing somebody dead. You don't go zero to one
40:57
Speaker 1: hundred and ten. Nbah, just like that. You're right? Who
41:00
Speaker 1: did I hear jumping in? Was said Landy or doctor Jane?
41:04
Speaker 1: It was Landy? Go ahead, you know, Nancy, this case
41:07
Speaker 1: is going to come down to a battle of the experts.
41:10
Speaker 1: You are going to have a psychologist, like some of
41:12
Speaker 1: our illustrious guests here, that are going to be able
41:15
Speaker 1: to explain, well, this is why these girls didn't appreciate
41:18
Speaker 1: the nature and the wrongfulness of their actions, and then
41:21
Speaker 1: the prosecution's going to bring their own psychologists or psychiatrist
41:25
Speaker 1: in to talk about brain development and how that would
41:28
Speaker 1: have made them liable, even though even given their tender
41:33
Speaker 1: young ages, so much of what we've discussed, the video games,
41:37
Speaker 1: the culture, the reality that, as you say, you don't
41:40
Speaker 1: go from zero to eighty in a minute, all of
41:43
Speaker 1: those types of things are going to be really put
41:46
Speaker 1: through a lens of brain development for a jury in
41:49
Speaker 1: order to decide and to really understand how in the
41:52
Speaker 1: world does the twelve or thirteen and fourteen year old
41:56
Speaker 1: resort to this type of violence. We wait as justice
42:00
Speaker 1: sun falls. Nancy Gray's Crime Story, signing off Goodbye Friend,