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“Only God Can Judge Me” // But Can You Take Coaching? · Pass The Rock: Real Talk

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: What's up, people?
• 0:01
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to PTR Pastor Rock Real Talk, where we talk about faith, basketball, culture, obviously, Jesus, and how to integrate him into our life every day.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm Lawrence.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: We'll be with my boy B D Aka Brian Daly.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: Let's get into it.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, what's up, boy?
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: Let's go.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, I you got, I mean, you got swag, bro.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_02: He just he said on the intro, man.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_02: Gotta set the tone.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_02: I was proud of you, man.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_02: You hit you hit that so well on the uh on the opening.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, yeah, he killed that.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_00: And we do what we gotta do.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, as we always start off, let's start off with a prayer.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm super excited because last episode we talked about, you know, one of Tupac's famous line, only God could judge me.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: So we're gonna talk about judgment today, which I think is really good.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: So let me pop off with a quick prayer and then let's let's jump in.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_00: What do you think, B?
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_02: Amen.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_02: Let's get it.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: All right, God love you so much.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: I pray for this time that uh, man, help us have fun, learn more about you, and I pray that everyone else listening, that the Holy Spirit just put something in their hearts, something in their mind to get them closer to you and help us to be the best versions of ourselves.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: In Jesus' name, I pray.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_00: Amen.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_02: Amen.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: All right, real quick, man.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: So we're talking about coaching, judgment, feedback.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: So I got and Brian, you played D1 ball, played professionally, so I gotta ask a coaching question.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_03: All right.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: Can you tell us a story when a coach had a masterful mic drop moment with the player?
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_00: And then maybe a story of a coach said something you were like, you just had to scratch your head, like, what in the world?
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_02: Man, yeah, I got I got two.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_02: All right, so the first one, a mic drop moment.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, this is at Missouri, and uh was playing there for Quinn Snyder, and so this is 2004, 2005, and Coach Schneider was really smart uh and really aggressive, and um he would go at us.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_02: He he was from the old the the school where you would kind of go at players and they come back stronger or just don't come back at all.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_02: And so um we were losing at halftime, and I think we were playing Oklahoma at home in Columbia, Missouri.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_02: And so um, so he came in at halftime.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_02: Now, how he did it was he was from the the school of Duke, and at Duke, you're in there halftime with your teammates, you're talking for like first couple minutes, and then the assistants come in and everyone gets quiet, and then the head coach comes in.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_02: And so you got your ringers off on your phone, you're not talking when the coach comes in, right?
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_02: And you're gonna look at him, eye contact, all that.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_02: So he makes that entrance, and we're all ready for what he's gonna say.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_02: And what he did was he didn't say a word, L.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_02: He turned around and he wrote a word on the whiteboard.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm not gonna say the word, but he wrote a word on the whiteboard, and he challenged it challenged all of us, and he looked around the room and he walked out.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_02: What?
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_02: Oh yeah, and so I mean, that motivated us, and then guys, guys really turned it up, and we ended up coming back and winning at home, and uh, and he came in, kind of laughed about it, wrote some more words on the whiteboard.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_02: But that was pretty good.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_02: I've never seen like a coach not say a word.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, especially an important game, Missous versus Oklahoma.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: So that's uh big 12 days.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, that's a big game.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_00: That's shout out to Quinn Snyder for that.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_00: That's good.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that was cool.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_02: And then uh overseas, I had a moment where um I forget how you phrased it, but you said one's a mic drop moment, and the other is like, what are you doing?
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_00: kind of yeah, exactly.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_02: You scratch your head like Okay, so so game one.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_02: Um, okay, so if you're familiar with Overseas, you got different leagues, and if you're in a top league, you're gonna have better officials, better competition, more money.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_02: And I was a walk-on at Missouri and came from JUCO, so I didn't have a ton of options.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_02: So as I started getting in there and had an agent and played in some semi-pro tournaments, I got a look in Israel, and it was in the Palestinian League in Israel, so it's like a lower league.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, and so uh, rough around the edges, uh, and I fly out there.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you do everything quickly, so we pack up in a couple days.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_02: My wife stayed back home in Missouri, but I flew out, and then the day after I got there, we had a game.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_02: So they're kind of like, Yeah, we want to see if this guy's any good and what's he gonna be like, and and then I met my coach, and my coach kind of looked like me right now, but was a little bit bigger.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um, his name was Othman, and he spoke Hebrew, Arabic, and broken English.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_02: Wow, and so he was big, bald dude, mad dude.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_02: I had no clue what he was saying most of the time.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_02: And uh man, he was yelling the whole time, right?
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_02: And so I would just be like, Okay, coach, okay, coach.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_02: But um, we're playing a good team, and it was in the it was in the key moments, like maybe four or five minutes left in the game, and one of our players would say something to him in the huddle, and he was getting mad, uh, and then he choked our player.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_02: And this is my first game.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_03: So he like Bart Simpson choked, like, so I'm like, get your hands in, let's go play.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_03: Oh my gosh, and we won the game.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_02: So we finished, and then there was a local guy, there was a dude there on the team that was younger, but knew English, and I'm like, man, is is he gonna do that every game?
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_02: He's like, No, no, no.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_02: So, but to this day, I've never seen a coach uh choke out a player.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I've heard of players choking coaches before, but never seen that.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_02: So that was a wild moment, L.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, that would be wild.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_00: You know, Latrobe Spree will try to do that in America that made headlines, blah problem.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_00: But it's cultural, I guess, overseas, you know.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no headlines, nothing stopped.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_02: No one got fired.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: Keep going, kept going.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_00: That's hilarious.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for sharing those stories, man.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so coaching ties in so much to making judgments.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we talked about that last week, and we kind of ended on this man, like are we allowed to make judgments on people?
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: And we established God makes a judgment heaven or hell at when we die, he's gonna make that choice.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_00: But while we're living, we can make judgments.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: So, real quick, shout out to Angie Martin.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_00: We had a great talk, she's like the OG sister.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_00: So, so yeah, shout out to you, Angie, uh, for reminding me and I'm tuning in.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, so judgments.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_00: So, Brian, Tupac made that phrase fame famous.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_00: Only God can judge me.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_00: Why do people believe that?
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, shout out to Miss Angelina as well.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_02: She's the best.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and appreciate you listening.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_02: So, yeah, you know, El, I think I gotta go back to when I when I used to use that that mentality, or even probably said it.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_02: And um, I think usually we say it because we know we're wrong, and we don't want other people to call us out on that or look down or we're defensive.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_02: And as a minister, as a Christian, most of the times I see it is when people know they're wrong, but they're like, You can't tell me I'm wrong, only God could tell me I'm wrong.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_02: So I think it's mainly used in an unhealthy way.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but on the other hand, as you said, it's not necessarily like we, it's not our place to judge the living and the dead.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_02: You know, um, there's a lot of places that refer to that in the Bible.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_02: I know one of them's um 2 Timothy 4, just mentions it says, in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who will judge the living and the dead, and in view of his appearing and his kingdom, I give you this charge.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_02: And so it's like, okay, we we don't make that judgment.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_02: However, we make judgments all the time.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_02: So true.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_02: I chose I chose to wear this slick watts shirt today.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_02: Rest in peace to the Sonics, and also rest in peace to Slick Watts.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_02: Um, amazing defender, amazing person in the Seattle area.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_02: But like this was a judgment.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, I'm gonna put on something that Lawrence will respect and he'll like.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_02: So I threw on my shirt.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_02: You know, we make a judgment.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_02: What do I eat?
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, where do I go on a Friday night?
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_02: These are all judgments.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_02: You know, even if we pray, if we pray the Lord's Prayer, our Father who is in heaven, hallowed be thy name.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_02: Um your kingdom come on earth as it is in heaven.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_02: Give us this day our daily bread, forgive us of our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_02: Lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_02: So, right away, I'm gonna have to make judgments.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um, how do I make this world more like heaven and do his will?
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_02: How do I forgive someone?
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I've got to make a judgment that says they need to be forgiven.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, how do I discern?
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think we make judgments all the time.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_02: In sports, you're gonna make a read in a judgment, you're gonna make a move by faith.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so in the Christian life, what does it look like?
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_02: I think like if you sp if we spent time just studying out Matthew 7, Jesus really teaches on this, and that's right after the Lord's Prayer.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_02: So I know I'm kind of going off here, but maybe I'll I'll read read one and then I'll open it up uh to you, L.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_02: So Matthew 7, 1, he says, Do not judge, or you too will be judged.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_02: For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_02: Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_02: How can you say to your brother, let me take the speck out of your eye, when all the time there's a plank in your own eye?
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_02: You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_02: So if I just go, hey, only God can judge me, and and only God can judge you, the plank is still there, and the speck is still there.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_02: Whoa, good point.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_02: But if I make a judgment and go, you know what?
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_02: The truth is, man, I got a plank in my eye.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm gonna deal with that.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_02: And then to my brother, hey, I know I had a plank.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_02: Can I talk to you about that speck?
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know, and then the result is we both have made a judgment and dealt with our issue, yeah, um, in a healthy way.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_02: What do you what do you think about that?
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_00: Bro, that's dope, man.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like it, like someone just clicked for me.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: So um, while we're living, it is important that we're judged because we have things we need to change.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: Like to your point, we all have a plank or a spec, you know, and that that Jesus is talking about our attitudes toward judgment, but like we all have something.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_00: And if someone doesn't point it out, man, that that could lead to some negative consequences in your life, but also at the end of days.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_00: And so it makes me think of that.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_00: And bro, real quick, you know, I sell the doctors as part of my job.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_00: Man, I had this one doctor, he he's a Muslim guy, but man, super intelligent.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: It was it was a mate, he I was in his office for an hour.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, man, don't you got patience to see you?
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like, yeah, anyway.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_00: But bro, he said something that blew me away.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_00: It ties into this.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: He said the greatest day will be when God comes back.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_00: Because then judgment will happen.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: So everything that was unfair to you will be taken care of.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_00: Every wrong will be taken care of, all the injustices ever will be it's gonna be a beautiful day.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_00: So to what your point is, because if I think of it from that perspective, that man, it's gonna be a one of the greatest days is when he comes back.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_03: Amen.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_00: I better make sure it's all you know, the plank is out of my eye, but I'm also helping my brothers get the speck out of theirs.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_00: So anyway, it clicked up, man, how important we need to be judged while we're still alive.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_02: Amen.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_02: Amen.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and in that way, and I love that because you just said that's an hour conversation.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_02: So that's not I'm not walking up to somebody going, hey, you're an idiot, like blah, blah, blah.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_02: That's like that's brotherhood, that's a deeper conversation, right?
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_02: And I feel like that is that is healthy, that is the goal.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, some other times I see Jesus refer to it is usually on false teaching, on false doctrine, because we have to be able to make a judgment about that.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_02: Um, he talks about this is also Matthew 7, a little bit later, verse 15, says, Watch out for false prophets.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_02: They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_02: By their fruit you will recognize them.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_02: Do people pick grapes from thorn bushes or figs from thistles?
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_02: And so he kind of goes on, but we're we're inspectors of fruit, so we gotta make a judgment, and we gotta be able to discern, you know what, that's uh that's a wolf in sheep's clothing.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_02: False doctrine, right?
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_02: And so he's very um very pointed on that.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_02: And then later on, John 7, he says, stop judging by mere appearances, but instead judge correctly.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_02: So it's not just uh, yeah, don't judge me, only God can judge me.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_02: There's there's a deeper um calling for us to discern in spiritual matters, and I feel like what opens us up is if I say I want to live by the word.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_02: So if I want to, if I say I want to live by the word, I have a green light for others in my life to go there with me.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_02: And if I'm in a conversation with somebody, let's say I'm ministering to them or I'm I'm a chaplain, and there's someone and they're trying to figure something out, I'll I'll just be like, Well, are you are you wanting to do this biblically?
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_02: Because if someone gives the green light to say, yeah, I want to handle this biblically, okay, I can operate in that world.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_02: I can show you what the Bible says.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_02: I can't do it for you, but I can point you there.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_02: Versus if they don't, then I'm like, okay, you're in uh, you know, you're you're in judges.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_02: Do as you see fit, like, you know, yeah.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_02: So um, which is funny, that's the book's called judges, but um, yeah.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that that's what I look for is for a teammate.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_02: One, I want a green light to the to be accountable to the Bible, and then two, do they want that?
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_02: Do they want accountability to the Bible?
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_02: If so, man, let's have that connection.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_00: I appreciate you sharing that.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_00: So I guess to tie this into sports, athletes, and just life, what does it say about a person that doesn't want to be judged, corrected, or weaknesses pointed out, or not just weaknesses, faults as well.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_02: In their sport or in life?
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_00: Let's start with sport first and then let's translate that to life.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_02: Man.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, if if I think that um you miss out, you miss out on growth, you miss out on brotherhood, and um and then usually it's uh you want a two-way street, so they that same person probably wouldn't go to that place to help someone else out because they don't want to receive it.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_02: You know, so I think it can stop development for a player.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_00: And then um what about spiritually?
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_00: What does that mean for someone that doesn't want feedback on purity, on their marriage or finances or whatever?
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_02: Man, it reminds me of uh I heard a quote.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_02: You know, some quotes stick with you?
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_02: Uh Robert Carrillo, and uh he's from San Diego originally, great preacher.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_02: 2017 I heard this quote.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_02: He said, confess your temptation and you won't have to confess your sin.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_02: So I think if I if I miss out on getting uh healthy accountability from others, I'm going to run into issues that I wouldn't have ran into if I wasn't humble enough to get some help.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um so I think you miss out on that.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: So interesting that you miss out on good things, and I'm not just talking about success or staying out of trouble, but you said a word that like you said brotherhood that really struck me that like that can be created through good judgment and challenging one another.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_00: Why do you think that is?
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_00: How is brotherhood created through judgment?
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_00: It almost seems counterintuitive.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, how is brotherhood created through judgment?
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_02: Bro, I just think it's so uncomfortable.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I don't know how you feel, but it's it's uncomfortable for me to be vulnerable, especially with my issues.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it probably goes back to Adam when he hid in the garden of like God knew, but he was trying to hide from God.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_02: And um, it actually reminds me of uh my good friend Marty Northcroft, who I know you've met uh online.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_02: But uh Marty, he was on a spiritual journey after college.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_02: He played lineman at Washington State University uh football, and then he moved to Virginia, kind of started this spiritual journey, and he came back, has been going to church for nine years with us, and he got baptized on Saturday.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_02: And the common thing with him is he's been there for me in the good, in the bad, and the ugly, and I've been there for him, and we've had tears together, we've prayed for jobs together, um, we've prayed for our families, we've gone through loss, and it has been uncomfortable at times because you're kind of letting someone into your life and seeing all these sides of you, you know.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_02: But um, but there's a scripture in Proverbs that talks about um there's a friend that sticks closer than a brother.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_02: And I'd say the same thing about you, El, only it's been decades, you know, where those uncomfortable accountability conversations are like adhesive to brotherhood.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_02: You know, they help that they help you stick together through thick and through thin.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I appreciate that.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_00: And also leads to some good stories because it's like afterwards, you're like, dang, dude, you gotta you got it all, you know, like in our D groups, like shout out to Ben Hawkins, right?
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like, oh dang, BD got it today.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_02: Or after hooping late night at the zoo arena.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 19:02
  unknown: Yeah.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_02: Hey, sorry about that foul, man.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_02: Hey, sorry, I was talking so much, man.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_02: Hey, sorry, I was prideful after that win.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_02: Hey, I forgive you, bro.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_02: I, you know.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, man.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I know Sam brought it up a while ago, me and Wale, how we almost got into a fight because I was so irritated.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_00: But we had to talk through it, get some judgment, deal with my heart, deal with his, and you know, it worked out.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I love that, bro.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_00: What does resistance and I'm gonna say coaching and judgment the same thing because coaches gotta make a judgment, yeah?
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: Give you feedback.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_00: What does and let's just make this about God.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_00: What does resistance to coaching about biblical matters communicate to him?
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_01: Hmm.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_02: It reminds me of the scripture.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you probably know the whole thing, but it's it's about walking in the light, and it talks about if any if any of us claims to be without sin, um then they're like it's it's it's something real drastic after that.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you're a liar.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_02: So I think it's like God's gonna correct us, he's he's gonna teach us, it's gonna come to the light.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_02: So why not have help getting there more quickly?
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_02: You know, and so I think that's what it says is it's it's prideful and it's deceitful to act like we got all together.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely, man.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_00: So my question to you is how can I put myself as a freshman, I'm at Norfolk State University, just got kicked off the baseball team.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_00: But I know inside I want truth, right?
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_00: I know I'm living a life that I shouldn't be.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: Going to church.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_00: I go to the church that's right across the street from the dorm, but I go there, people are sleeping, so I'm like, mm-hmm, you know, for whatever reason, I was like, I this ain't the church for me.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_00: So I wanted God, but I didn't know how to find him or where to go to get what I needed.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_00: Once again, which is truth.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I need someone to give me truth because I want to change.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_00: So earlier you referenced the scripture about hey, there are wolves in sheep's clothing.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_00: And there are fruits that you need to look at to discern and make the right judgment on where to go to get spiritually fed.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_00: So, Brian, I can't help but think.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_00: Hopefully, there's a listener that's was in my same shoes before.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_00: You were in there too, as you shared before, like, man, I need help.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_00: But I don't know where to go or what to look for to get truth.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_00: So, what are some things that if someone wants truth and proper judgment to really get to know God, what are some things they should be looking for?
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_02: I say start with um praying for that person to show up in your life, for God to bring that person into your life.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_02: The number of stories where people have prayed for a spiritual family.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: For a community, for accountability, mentorship, and then God has a way of doing that.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_02: I think to make that discernment or that judgment of who we want to be accountable to, looking for someone that has a character that practices what they preach and is already open to that accountability with others.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um, is living a life that you go, okay, they're they're they're doing what they say, you know, their life and their doctrine or their teaching, it it adds up.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_02: And then just asking them, hey, I I'm really trying to do this, I don't know how to do this.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_02: Can you help me?
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, super.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_00: That's good.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_00: Now I want to flip that to those that are Christians, and hopefully people are listening.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_00: There's many people that are Christians.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_00: And you know what?
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_00: Once again, guys, if you're tuning in, Brian, I don't go over all the questions, so uh, this is really live.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_00: And so I want to talk about discipling real quick, if that's okay.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_00: I know it could be, you know, okay, we do this with love, it's not with force, it's not when we say discipling, we mean really helping one another see the you know the speck in their eye and dealing with our parties.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_00: When I say discipling, we're trying to help each other be like Jesus.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_00: And so when you read that verse, uh the scripture, I want to reread it.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_00: It made me think of something I want to ask you.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_00: It says, Stop judging by mere appearances, but instead judge correctly.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_00: So, with the lens that as Christians, I am my brother's keeper, you know, like hey, sounds like God wants me to be able to get the speck out of their eye and deal with mine.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: How can Christians grow to be able to make correct judgments with one another?
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_02: That is a great question.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_02: I can only say, in my experience, what I'm learning and what I'm trying to do.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, I think a lot of discipleship is like coaching where you're trying to get a principle or an idea into another person's mind so they can understand it and apply it.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_02: And the hard part isn't knowing the right answer, the hard part's knowing how to help them to see.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_02: And so um when I'm when I am doing that for someone else, if I'm discipling someone else, first thing is do they have a heart and a mind that wants help, wants um input, advice, discipling.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_02: I might even ask, do you want advice on this?
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_02: Or do you think you got it?
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_02: Like, do you want it?
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_02: Do you want an opinion?
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_02: Do you are you looking for that?
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_02: Or so then if if it is like, yeah, I want your advice, I want your opinion, uh, I want discipling.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um, then I think asking a lot of questions, and even if I have a concept that's in scripture, presenting the concept and allowing them to see how it applies.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_02: And at the end of the conversation, I want to make sure they get it, but allowing them to see how it applies.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_02: So it's really coming from the word, and it's not coming from me.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um, that in a in a perfect situation, that's it.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, I've been on when I'm on the other end of it, sometimes it'll just be like, hey, what do you think?
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it it it could be either option on this.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_02: I could take this path or this path.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_02: Uh L, I was getting in your advice on something earlier, you know.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, um, so it's like just shoot me straight what you think, you know.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think being honest is important, and then um, if someone says, Hey, be honest with me, I want your input, be willing to, it might hurt their feelings, but it could save them from greater destruction.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_00: So true.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_00: All right, no, thanks for bringing that down.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I want to follow up on that.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_00: What should so say if I'm receiving discipling and it hurts my feelings?
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think I got a couple choices.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_00: What do I do with though with that, right?
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_00: So I could be humble.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_00: Well, there's many different choices.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_00: I could be humble, just take it.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_00: I could be humble and ask for clarification.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_00: But I guess what is the response you don't want from hurtful or incorrect discipline?
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_02: Well, we're getting we're getting deep.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_00: I know when I put air quotes, I just mean let's assume that whoever is giving discipline follow what you just did.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: I'm doing what this love, I'm thinking about you.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_00: You're not my own brother by blood, my family member, but I love you more than that than I'm willing to share truth with you in love.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_00: So someone's giving their best.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, on the receiving side, yeah.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_00: What do you do?
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, anyway, go ahead.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_02: I think the number one thing I'm not gonna do is be defensive and start arguing.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I think it is okay if I don't agree, and if I feel like it's not my pride that's disagreeing, but I I legit don't agree.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_02: I want to know why.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_02: And I learned that from Vince, you know, is if I if I don't agree, uh Vince Hawkins used to be uh one of one of my mentors and still look up to him and learned a lot from him.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_02: So I learned from him, hey, if I don't agree with him, he's gonna ask why.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_02: And so let me have a reason as to I don't agree, not just I don't feel that way, yeah.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but sometimes I think putting my pride down to go, you know what, I may not agree right now, but I asked for this advice, and they could be right.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_02: And so sometimes I just need to sit with that, hold that, um, pray about it, and ask God, like, is this advice actually is this correct?
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm gonna check it in scripture, I'm gonna check it in prayer, um, I may get more advice, but I want to be open-minded that the advice I don't agree with could actually be right if it lines up with the Bible.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I love that.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I know that's sense of areas, especially it can be in certain groups of people.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I want to add to that that um you know, C.S.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_00: Lewis has this quote, I'm gonna butcher it.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_00: I wish I had it prepared.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_00: But he was like, hey, if you pretty much the point he was making, if you want to find rats in the basement, you don't make a bunch of noise and open the door slowly, turn on the light, they're gonna be gone and hidden from at that point.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, he says to find the rats in the basement, you gotta open that door real quick, boom, and then you're gonna catch them.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I believe, and this is my personal conviction in discipling to your point, Brian, uh, Brian.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes it's about catching your reaction.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_00: Now, if someone says something that's not biblical based, oh yeah, have your reaction, get all fired up, you know.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_00: But but watch your heart.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like how are you responding?
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_00: Are you want to get in a fight?
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_00: Whoa, that's that's something with you then.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_00: Or you know what I'm saying?
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_00: So watch your attitude because God may God can use a donkey by discipline, right?
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_00: He did that with Balaam.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so God can use a donkey, he can use anybody to give you feedback.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_00: But the goal is, I think ultimately, what's in your heart and when you see your plank versus the spec and whoever did their best they could to give you feedback.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I love that.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's our work to do too.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_02: We got to watch our reactions, yeah, check the advice, and and then the other thing I'd add too obviously we're not gonna cover discipleship in in one you know pod, but not just taking it blindly without doing that work.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_02: So true.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_02: So, in the same way of like, oh, my reaction's like, yep, I agree, I want to do that, I'm doing that, I'm going.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_02: And then someone's like, Why are you doing that?
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_02: Like, oh, so and so told me.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_02: You know, so I want to avoid that too.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_02: I want to be, I want to be a man of discernment, you know.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I got some great advice, and at first, man, I didn't see that, but after praying about it and uh and going through scripture, you know what?
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_02: I think that is the right way to handle it.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yep, and here's why.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_00: And going back to what we talk about brotherhood or even sisterhood, if you sisters are doing this too, I think that's what creates those deeper bonds.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_00: You said this, and hey, help me understand what did you mean by XYZ?
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, I I want to share how that made me feel, but also maybe there's some things about me you don't understand that I will love to share.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and so I think that's where, and I just want to say this in our fellowship of churches, man.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_00: I think that is something that I see an opportunity of.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, let's have a continued dialogue to talk, to get on the same page.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_00: And so don't be afraid to go there with one another.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_02: Amen.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so my thoughts there on that.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_00: Amen.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_00: Amen.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_02: And I'd say most people in the world of sport and even most people in church probably don't have a lot of people they can do that with.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_00: That's a good point.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_00: True.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_02: I wish we all did, but the truth is the value to that, I mean, that's like a gem from God.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_02: It's such a blessing to be able to go there with people.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_00: So it is, man.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_00: Once again, one of the beauties of sports, I think life overall is friendships at the end.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'm sure when you think about your guys back at Missoula Pro Ball, yes, the memories of playing, but I'm sure the bond you have, you know, that's something that you'll cherish forever, you know.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 31:46
  unknown: Yeah.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_02: Hey man, why not pray us out?
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_02: L.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_00: I know you got to go to a game, man.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you know what?
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_00: I I do, but it's okay.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_00: But before we go to the game, hey man, is there anything?
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_00: Say if someone wants to support PTR, what you got going on, man?
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_00: Is there a game?
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_00: Is there something they can buy?
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_00: How can they support PTR?
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so um we have PastHerock.shop.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_02: And what we have going uh on right now, we have like a summer line that we launched.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_02: It's our first line with our merchandise, got some great stuff with with um faith messages on the shirts.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_02: We have Naismith on there on a shirt, um, and just in honor of him and and his contribution to uh sport and to faith.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_02: And then uh in about two weeks, we have a like Thanksgiving season line dropping.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_01: Nice.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_02: And so it's gonna we have some shirts that say Jesus is Lord, and then they're gonna be in NFL colors.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_02: Oh so have different colorways from your favorite team.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_02: So you know, Lawrence, you can have the Rams, uh I'll have the Niners, and so we'll have that.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, and then we've got some other some other stuff coming out as well with that launch.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, check us out at past the rock.shop.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_00: There we go.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, that sounds really cool, bro.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, amen.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_02: All right, you want to close this out?
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yep, let's do it.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_02: God, uh, thank you for this time with L dub and just to uh you know to dedicate a conversation to you and exploring faith and sport.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_02: And uh it's just it's a it's such a blessing um to have a passion for for sports and to learn about you through them.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_02: And uh just talking about being men of uh judgment, of right judgment, of discernment, of um, you know, openness, vulnerability to discipling and uh to developing, whether it's coaching, playing, as a chaplain, as a minister, uh in business, we want that heart of growing, of developing, of welcoming feedback.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_02: And uh we want to have those connections that we can go there with people as well, God.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_02: And uh definitely in our faith, you know, we pray that uh we'd expect great things from you, God.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_02: And we also want to we want to do great things for you.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_02: And so for us to grow, uh we need help.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_02: And we know you use people, you use situations, and we so we pray that you'd you'd speak to us and allow us to grow in the ways we need to grow, God, and um allow us to make right judgments.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_02: You know, give us, equip us with that knowledge, and pray that your Holy Spirit will guide us, God.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_02: But I pray for this weekend and uh for our kids and their sports, help us to be great dads and great husbands, and uh, we love you in your son Jesus' name.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_02: We pray.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_02: Amen.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_00: Amen.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, what's up, people?
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to PTR Pass the Rock, Real Talk, where we talk about faith, basketball, culture, obviously, Jesus, and how to integrate him into our life every day.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm Lawrence.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_00: We'll be with my boy B D Aka Brian Daly.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_00: Let's get into it.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks for joining us on Pass the Rock Real Talk.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_02: For more inspiration, make sure to follow us on Instagram at underscore pass the rock and on Facebook at PastHERock Jesus through athletics.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_02: You can also get your newest PTR merchandise at pass the rock.shop.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_02: And PTR is brought to you by the Youth Athletic Recreational Development.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_02: That's a 501c3 nonprofit in Pullman, Washington.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_02: Any proceeds from anything we do, including uh passtheck.shop, will go towards our mission for our nonprofit to build a youth sports facility in the Pullman region.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_02: Uh until next time, don't just pass the ball, but pass the rock.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_02: And don't just win the game, but win souls.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_02: Peace.