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Employee Engagement and Workplace Communication with Christine Dykeman · Marci talks money (and life)

• Marci Grossman (00:06) Hello, welcome to Marci Talks Money and Life. I am Money Marci. I am so pleased to welcome Christine Dykeman. Christine is a compassionate futurist speaking on employee experience. She is a keynote speaker, panelist and moderator, an HR project manager and advisor, a workshop facilitator, and the CEO and founder of Lighthouse Engagement Advisors. Christine has multiple degrees and certifications in HR, project management, and a master's in managerial technology. She has sat on both sides of the table for hiring and employment, so brings an informed and diverse perspective of the process. At Lighthouse Engagement Advisors, she works in many different ways to help organizations create the workplace that help them communicate, engage, and work together towards success. Welcome, Christine. Christine Dykeman (00:57) Thank very much, I appreciate it. Happy to be here. Marci Grossman (01:01) I am so thrilled to have you here. I love talking to HR people because so many people are trying to find jobs, are trying to figure out how to get the most out of their job, how to have their career be everything they want it to be. And HR is this huge resource that people aren't always aware of what is available to well as sitting on both sides of the table, you've hired people, you've gone for interviews yourself. So you are a wealth of knowledge. And I can't wait to pick your brain. Christine Dykeman (01:31) Thank you. Pick away. I am so saddened to hear anyone that's in job search because it is such a tough road. No matter if it's your first time or your 10th time and you're 20 years old or you're 40 or 60, it doesn't even matter how old or any of that information. It's just it's a really hard road. Marci Grossman (01:53) It is. So let's start by digging into it. Career change or whether it's a change or even starting, imposter syndrome. How these relate to moving forward and finding your career. Christine Dykeman (02:05) The word imposter syndrome or the two words of imposter syndrome, they make people feel inadequate or they feel inadequate and they need to put a name on it and that's what they come up with but imposter syndrome is really you feeling like you're not worthy or you don't have enough experience or education to be compared to others. When we stop comparing ourselves to other people around us and people that we work with, people that are also going for that same job, we're kind of getting rid of that imposter syndrome feeling. You have to give yourself credit for everything that you have done. There is nobody like you that is applying for the job. I don't care if they have the same degree or the same experience and work in the same places. Everybody is unique and they have different ideas and different values that mold and make them. So stop with the imposter syndrome because you are you and you need to stand tall and be confident when you apply. That's what truly makes the difference in who gets a job and who doesn't. Marci Grossman (03:11) I think the next step that would be going into portfolio careers, which is, well, It's a term that means a lot of different things nowadays, because portfolio careers are the things where you bring a portfolio of your work, but it's also that other part. So what can you share with us? Christine Dykeman (03:29) The term portfolio careers has morphed and changed over time. I think that for many of us who are not in that creative field, so to speak, never use that word portfolio careers. And it was reserved for those types of we have contractor and gig worker and freelancer. Those are all portfolio career, careerists. So when you look at all the things that you have done, that is your portfolio career. I was talking with somebody the other evening and they have brought up a great point. When you were in school, whether it was going for a certificate or going to high school or going to college, did you work a part-time job? Did you work any kind of job while you were going to school? Well, most of us did, a vast majority it was probably not in your chosen profession. Well, guess what? You could have a portfolio career because maybe you were a waitress and that was all the skills: customer service, communication skills, project management skills, even though maybe you were an art history major. Has nothing to do with all of those things, but that helped mold you and make you who you are. And then what you're bringing to the table, because you have a different understanding of what is needed in that profession because of the background skills that you've developed over time. So that's just one example. A lot of times we have started our jobs, stopped our jobs, we've been laid off, we've been fired, we've gone through all different kinds of things. We had the pandemic and maybe we've taken a part-time job. Maybe we've worked from home. Maybe we did door dash just to make ends meet. All of the skills that are required of all those different part-time positions or gigs help make you who you are. And that's why when you apply for a job. What you bring to the table is unique no matter what your background and actual job experience is. Marci Grossman (05:40) So how did people determine how much of that to put on their resume? Or do they put the skills but not necessarily, okay, I worked at this hamburger place and I drove this whatever, and they want to put the skills that they've learned, but you don't necessarily want to list the 17 part-time jobs that you had. Christine Dykeman (05:58) Absolutely and you're not going to list the 17 part-time jobs that you've had but you have those skills and that's a place where you can expand on that information during an interview and it could be well I've worked in and believe me I know how tough that is because I've pretty much been in every industry you can imagine I think except for engineering and something else, but healthcare and food service and I've delivered newspapers for a living. I've done all of these things. You kind of know what needs to be done and how to maneuver yourself to get that job done quickly so that you can move on with other aspects of what is required of you. Your life, another job, whatever it happens to be. So all of those skills that you've developed, or something that you would list on a resume, especially if it's relevant to that position. During an interview, you might want to not only speak about those skills, but expand on other skills that you have developed through the course of time that would help you in the chosen job that you're really trying to go for. Marci Grossman (07:12) Okay, so there is a place for the skills you've learned outside of having to list. That's good. That's useful. Christine Dykeman (07:18) Absolutely We are becoming a skills-based society as opposed to a degree society. So you're going to see that move, that change over it may not be immediate. They've been talking about it for a while but there is definitely an increase in companies that are looking at the skills you possess as opposed to the degree you've obtained. Are you teachable? Can I teach you those far as upskilling or reskilling in this vast, fast-paced change that all of society is going through right now. Marci Grossman (07:58) There are a lot of universities or even just YouTube videos that will teach you about things but you're not going to necessarily walk out with a certification of some kind. So is there a place to list those as well, hey I learned about this through this program but it was not a certificate. Christine Dykeman (08:17) You know what? It depends on how long your resume is right now, before you consider filling it with information that might be first, second, third types of prioritization when you're looking at a resume. So you might want to leave some of those things for a conversation so that the person can better understand you. When we read an email, we don't hear a tone of voice. We don't see any emotions or reactions. It's the same thing on a resume. When you start listing skills that you've developed and that you've enhanced in courses you've taken, it doesn't come across the same way as having a conversation and relaying that information to someone that is listening, whether it's a phone interview or a Zoom interview or a face-to-face interview. You're able to really express how much that meant to you and how much you learned so that you can move forward and use that information to better the company. Marci Grossman (09:20) So a resume is kind of like an invitation and the hope is it gets you in to have that bigger conversation where you can share yourself more. Christine Dykeman (09:27) conversation. Yes, a resume will never get you a job, period. If anyone, anyone thinks that a resume will get them a job, they are wrong. It is to get you a conversation. So it is your marketing material in order to sell somebody on picking up the phone to invite you in for a conversation. Marci Grossman (09:50) Okay. Can you think of some green flags when interviewing that someone might look for to, see how the company feels about them or see how the interest or the energy is around the company? Are there things you can see when you're interviewing that might help you determine the fit? Christine Dykeman (10:08) I think that when you take a look at their response and their reaction to what you're saying, are they shaking their head and nodding in agreement? Are they asking you a follow-up question? Tell me more about that. Or that sounds really interesting. I would love to learn more about that. You know that kind of thing that is definitely a green flag because they're leaning in they're they're showing their interest by asking a follow-up question. When you don't necessarily get that type of response from what you're saying then you kind of know that you need to change it up a little bit to elicit that kind of reaction that's going to help you to move Marci Grossman (10:52) Let's switch a little bit into what HR can do for you. You're an employee at a company. What are the kinds of things that you should be reaching out to HR and aware of? Christine Dykeman (11:04) Usually day one is filled with onboarding and getting to know what the company is all about and the handbook and where you're going to be working your workstation and that kind of thing. By the end of the week, I would definitely reach out to HR again because they may not have the power in every situation, but they do have the knowledge of who has the power. And they know more than you think that they know. So reaching out to them and asking, hey, not so much, how much am I gonna get paid, and when's my first vacation and 90 day probation. You'll find out all of that in time. But to reach out to them just like you would if you were in college and ask them about a mentorship. I would love it if someone would teach me the ropes. I want to go far in this company or in this profession. And who is the right person internally that I could reach out to and I could use as a mentor who would be interested in helping to guide me in the right direction. Asking those types of questions gives them a little bit of knowledge into your psyche and that you want to go places. They're going to keep their ears open so that maybe there's a learning opportunity, maybe there's a webinar you would be interested in, maybe there is a group that's meeting that might be a good fit for you and they're going to keep you front of mind. But the minute that you don't do that or you kind of stray away from HR, they're going to forget about you because you're just one in however many people are in the company. So staying in touch and keeping you yourself in front of them and on their brain is going to help propel you forward in whatever capacity that you're interested in. The biggest thing is to not be afraid of HR. HR is compliance. HR is trying to make sure that the company does the right thing, but they're making sure they're doing it for the employees. So they've got your back. They're not trying to punish you. They're trying to enable you and get what you need so that you can move forward and the company can move forward at the same time. Marci Grossman (13:18) Hahaha Okay, and so we hit the employee and the HR. So let's go to the employer because employers want to find employees that they can train and keep a long time. The payoff in an employee isn't in that first year. It's in the years after that when this is a contributing member of society that doesn't need a whole lot of active supervision and maintenance because they know their job. They know what they're doing. How can you make your company an employer of choice? How can you make your company someone that the top employees are going to want to get to and stay at? Christine Dykeman (14:03) I think that the first thing for trying to be that employer of choice is to listen. Listen to the employees to see what they want, what they're interested in. Are they interested in different benefits, better benefits? Do they want pet healthcare? Do they want family healthcare, better healthcare, dental healthcare? Do they want a 401k? Are they interested in a There's all kinds of things that could be of interest, but knowing the culture of the employees helps to go a long way so that you can narrow things down. As HR, you don't want to just throw out a benefit because it's free and maybe one person out of 200 is going to take advantage of it. You want to try and narrow things down and get the most out of it. Going on the flip side of what I had just said about mentorship, if you are an employee and you are willing and able to mentor a newer employee, somebody coming on board your company, that is a big help as well. And that's when you want to reach out to HR again and say, hey, I've gotten so much from my mentor and I appreciate the time that they took to teach me the ropes. I am willing to do that for the next group that comes in, the next generation, whatever it happens to be. I want to help them to be as successful as I have been able to become. And that's going to go a long way as well. Marci Grossman (15:42) So what's interesting is HR is important at the beginning of your career and it's still important even as you continue on in your career. And that's something it's so easy to forget. When you get to the company, you reach out, HR, make sure you have your benefits package, make sure you've signed any other onboarding paperwork there has to be, make sure you did your insurance every year. But there's that continuing relationship and opportunities with HR to support the employees and in that way support the employers if you keep that dialogue going. Christine Dykeman (16:17) Absolutely. HR is nothing more than a matchmaker. I mean, that's what it kind of comes down to is, okay, the employee comes in and they say, I need this and who am I going to find in the organization that can help them with that? And you're just matching people for their needs. And if you're afraid of HR or you don't go to HR, a lot of times I'll hear, my God, you got called to the principal's office? Well, no, that's not true because I want to know what you're doing or my gosh, that is a great incentive. Let's get the word out. How can we do that and tell people what you're doing because this is a wonderful program and they're. not thinking along those lines. They're thinking about their job day to day, what it entails, and they took on this smaller project. So how can we tell everybody about this project to get it more advertised and popular and people interested so that you have more attendance, whatever it happens to be? If we all look at those things in that way, HR is just another puzzle piece. Marci Grossman (17:21) You know, it's funny the way you said calling to the principal's office because I was a controller at a nonprofit, ⁓ a fairly good sized nonprofit, but we didn't have a dedicated HR department. So a lot of the compliance issues and paperwork things ended up on my desk. And I would call people into my office and they would come in, they're like, my God, I'm gonna get fired. I didn't fire them. Christine Dykeman (17:28) Mm-hmm. Yes. Yes. Marci Grossman (17:46) That wasn't my job. I wasn't supervising them. I wasn't whatever. And no matter how many times I said, this is what I do. I'm involved with XYZ. It would still, I would call someone in because we were missing a signature. We needed an answer. We needed a whatever. And, and they would come in with, you know, Christine Dykeman (17:49) Yep. Yeah. Yes. And you know, it's so funny that you say that it's the same thing. It's like I don't fire people. I'm there to make sure everything is legal on both sides. But that's it. It's do we have a signature? Do we have compliance going forward so that if we do get audited, everything is in a row? All our ducks are in a row. It's got nothing to do with firing you or even disciplining anybody because that's not our job. Our job is Again, that matchmaker job. Marci Grossman (18:35) Right, and that was just where my position kind of touched on HR, and it was humorous and silly and sad and whatever else, because I certainly didn't want people to be scared to come to me when I just needed a signature. And then they would avoid me and evade me. I just need this fricking signature, and you're taking forever for me to track you down and get this signature. Christine Dykeman (18:39) Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Marci Grossman (18:59) or get this document. ⁓ Christine Dykeman (18:59) I go around my building in circles looking for that one signature and people duck in the corners and my God HR is coming. wow then people be what did you do. It's not that it's not about that. I will help you out till the cows come home people you just got to tell me what you need and I'll hook you up yes Marci Grossman (19:18) Right. HR, we're here to hook you up. I don't know if that's the right... Christine Dykeman (19:23) Maybe that'll be my new, you know, Marci Grossman (19:25) Let's talk about your new endeavor with Lighthouse Engagement Advisors. Tell me what you're doing. Christine Dykeman (19:30) Yes, yes, thank you. I am, continuing my own portfolio career. I've always been on the job seeker side. I've always advocated for job seekers in every way I possibly can. And I've noticed there's kind of a stopping point. So I've kind of flipped the table a little bit. Where I'm still advocating for job seekers, but I'm advocating to those that are in position of authority in a company, whether it is management, senior management, C-suite, whatever it happens to be, to help them understand, educate, change their minds about how they're thinking about... not only portfolio careers, skills-based hiring, and how they can be successful moving forward. Especially with all the changes that keep getting thrown at them. So focusing on that and using the lighthouse method, which is what I'm working on right now, will help them to clarify what that foundation is and how to be able to move forward to help them see the light on the top of a lighthouse. The light comes to you so that you can go out and do what you need to do. So that's the whole purpose. Marci Grossman (20:39) See, I like that. Okay, You're speaking at organizations, you're... Christine Dykeman (20:50) ⁓ speaking at organizations, I'm still doing job seeker groups, doing workshops, keynote speakers, breakout sessions, that kind of thing. So I'm a little bit all over the place. My goal, somewhere along the line, is to write a book eventually and do a TED talk. So I'm working on those as well. A lot going on when I'm not really working, right? So I'm working and then I'm doing my part-time job, my evening job, my other job. What do you want to call it? Marci Grossman (21:13) Okay. Right, but you're also, they can hire you to come and speak to their executives and to consult with their HR department. Lighthouses is huge opportunity. It's far reaching with a lot of opportunities for companies to meet with you and have an outside perspective, an outside educated perspective, come in and help them look at the way they are Christine Dykeman (21:31) Absolutely. Far reaching. Far reaching. Yes. Marci Grossman (21:50) presenting HR, the way they are working with their employees. Employees and personnel are typically the most expensive resource that a company has. So finding the way to work with them and treat them in a way that gets that loyalty. Christine Dykeman (21:53) Mm-hmm. Yes. and treat them. Yes. And if you think about it, how do you treat people? If you don't treat your employees very fairly and you're doing mass layoffs, you might not have a repeat. You might not have that boomerang experience where people come back to you. And when you start kind of changing the way you treat employees, to treating them as customers and giving them what they need to succeed, then you're going to reap the rewards of that as well. And when we enter in the factor of skills-based hiring and portfolio careers and that contractor type we put all of that together, we have project-based teams. Everyone's going to have a little bit to offer and they're going to be knowledgeable in a lot of different areas. We're going to change the way that employment is looked at. Marci Grossman (23:06) I think that is awesome because everybody wants to find that job where they can be there long term. The employer certainly wants the employees to be there long term, even if they transition, whether it's upward or across. Everyone wins when you have these longer jobs. Christine Dykeman (23:24) And you've got Exactly that. When you tell somebody, I'm working on this project right now, but I'm interested in something, if you just keep that to yourself, then how are they gonna read your mind? They're not gonna read your mind, they're not gonna know. So that's why you want to go to HR. You want to say, hey, when we're done with this project, I will put 200 % into it and I will get you what you need, but I would like to continue. I want to work on a different project and I would like to expand my knowledge here or whatever it happens to be. When you stay in touch, then we could be that matchmaker, right? And we have all these different mentors. You know what? He worked really, really hard on that team. And I would love it if we could bring him on to this team. She was awesome. And I wish we had more place, but our project is done now. What is the next project that I can put that person on so that we can keep them on board and we can keep our company moving forward. We can get a bigger market share. We can be successful. All of the things that maybe management is thinking of by including the employee skill set. That's where everybody wins. Marci Grossman (24:30) I like when everyone wins. I mean, my goal is for everybody to win. Everyone to walk away saying, I did good, I got what I needed, and you know, at least a reasonable amount of what I wanted. Because you're not going to get everything you want, but if you get everything you need, and a fair bit of what you want, and you see other opportunities in the future to get more of what you want, and to see that future, I mean, that's everything. Christine Dykeman (24:46) Thanks. That's the key, that's the key. I might not have it all now but I can see the future and I can get a bigger share of that. I can grow in my knowledge base, in my job base whatever it happens to be and I think that that's what people are ultimately looking for if you are in job don't want just a job, you want to care about what you're want to feel like you are respected and you're relevant. So by taking all of that information. It creates that win situation. Marci Grossman (25:28) So is there anything different you would do if you are looking for a step up, another job within the company where you already work? Is that gonna necessarily change your mindset when you're looking for a job if it's within where you already are, or is it pretty much the same process? Christine Dykeman (25:46) I think that if you were looking for another job or a bigger job and you wanted that upward trajectory, you have to take a look at who is above you and who is above them and what is the potential to go up. And sometimes you have to go, as you said earlier, you have to go sideways to go up, to go across. It is not necessarily that straight up, up, up, up projection for a career. And if that's the case, then you want to take a look at the other positions that are above you and what they are and what they entail. Do you need an increased skillset? Do you need to learn? Do you need to, again, mentor have those conversations with the person that is hiring for that so that you can be ready, willing, and able when it is time for that promotion of sorts. Do you again this is makes things so much easier find someone to replace you so you need to have the solution before you move forward because most management is going to be very excited that you want to move and if you're capable awesome but they might be afraid to lose so sometimes it's good to also look ahead but look behind you too. Who can come up and take your position as well? If you have an answer then it's going to be a lot harder for senior management or a decision maker to argue that. Marci Grossman (27:24) That's a good point. I wouldn't have thought about that if you're moving up that you've got to make sure you replace yourself. Especially if you're valuable in your position because they might not want to lose someone who brings value to the current position and that would be sad to lose that upper trajectory because of your value. Yeah. Christine Dykeman (27:41) Exactly. Yes, sometimes you become too valuable and they don't want to lose you. So you're like, kind of where, where is that happy medium, right? That's hard sometimes, but when you have somebody, it's a lot easier to convince them to move you into a position because you have somebody in the waiting wings right there. Marci Grossman (27:53) Right. Okay, do you have any specific advice to job seekers that maybe we didn't hit on yet? Christine Dykeman (28:10) if you're a job seeker, I'm going to say you have to go through the five stages of grief. And a lot of people will agree, disagree. Losing a job is like losing a loved one. You're losing your the key to losing a job or being in transition is to not stay there. Get out. Get a job search buddy. Start networking. Continue networking with people in the industry you would like to go into, or people that are in job search period and know what it's like. Don't rely on the people that are closest to you. They might not understand as much what you're going through for this particular most importantly, don't give up. It's okay to take a day to sulk. Get up on the wrong side of the bed. But the next day you better get up and start all over again and keep that positive attitude. You'll land. Marci Grossman (29:06) Okay, What about for the people that are new, so they haven't lost a job, maybe they just graduated, and the jobs they're looking for all want experience? How do they bridge that gap? Christine Dykeman (29:15) Hmm. Wow, portfolio I would highly recommend that you learn and keep upskilling yourself. There's a lot of free resources that you can do that, especially if you've just gotten done paying for an education or a certification and you're like, okay, I'm knee deep in student loans and I can't afford it. You can learn a lot for free. The most important thing that I think I've seen is LinkedIn is wonderful because not only do you have courses on LinkedIn, but people share wonderful stories, articles, data sets, everything on that platform. And that's a wonderful place for you to expand your mind and your knowledge. And just like the internet, it's a rabbit hole. You could go on. Marci Grossman (30:05) Hahaha! Christine Dykeman (30:06) and on but at least you have a starting place. The groups, they're really great for mentorship and having that one-on-one and making the connection whether it is a 15 minute zoom just to kind of see where they're at and how they can help you. Have your questions lined up and keep on learning because that's where you need to be and go for a walk. Go outside. Get some fresh air every now and then. It's okay. Marci Grossman (30:37) I like that one. I like that one. Okay, I want to remind everyone out there, I'm going to put the link to Lighthouse Engagement Advisors into the show notes. If you are an employer, if you work with an employer that you think might be interested or willing to consider, they should definitely check out and see if the resources that Christine offers at Lighthouse Engagement Advisors is right for your company. I know you're New Jersey based so that most of your information is specific to New Jersey but there's a lot of USA wide stuff as well. So that doesn't limit you to people just in New Jersey, companies just in New Jersey. Christine Dykeman (31:12) Yes. Yes. Yes. No. And you could use a lighthouse, even if you're in, I don't know, a landlocked state, South Dakota. You still need a lighthouse. Marci Grossman (31:25) Okay, fair enough. You know, a lot of great lighthouses out there. Christine Dykeman (31:29) Thank you. Marci Grossman (31:29) well thank you Christine. I'm so glad that you were able to come and talk with me. Listeners, I'm so glad that you checked us out and I appreciate you coming by to stop and listen. This is Money Marci. Thank you for coming by Marci Talks Money and Life. You got this. See ya. Christine Dykeman (31:48) Thank you.