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6 Warning Signs Your Youth Ministry is in BIG TROUBLE! · Ministry Coach: Youth Ministry Tips & Resources

0:00
SPEAKER_02: Today we're talking about six warning signs that your youth ministry might be in trouble.
0:17
SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the Ministry Coach Podcast, where we bring you weekly tips and tactics to help you fast track the growth and health of your youth ministry.
0:23
SPEAKER_01: My name is Jeff Lascola, and this is Kristen Lascola.
0:27
SPEAKER_02: And we missed you guys last week.
0:29
SPEAKER_02: We had a very happy Thanksgiving in Dallas visiting family and yeah.
0:35
SPEAKER_01: In Oklahoma.
0:36
SPEAKER_02: In Oklahoma.
0:37
SPEAKER_02: I was thinking the entire state of Oklahoma.
0:39
SPEAKER_02: On Thanksgiving.
0:40
SPEAKER_02: We were in Dallas.
0:41
SPEAKER_02: But yeah, we did a little travel to go see my family, your family.
0:45
SPEAKER_02: Hope you all had a happy Thanksgiving.
0:47
SPEAKER_02: And we're back today.
0:48
SPEAKER_01: I'll tell you what, though, we take a week off.
0:50
SPEAKER_01: It feels like forever.
0:51
SPEAKER_02: Really?
0:52
SPEAKER_01: I feel like it.
0:53
SPEAKER_02: I didn't feel like that.
0:54
SPEAKER_01: No.
0:54
SPEAKER_01: Never mind.
0:55
SPEAKER_02: Went by in the blink of an eye.
0:56
SPEAKER_01: I mean doing the podcast.
0:57
SPEAKER_01: Oh feels like forever since we've recorded a podcast.
1:00
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it feels like a while.
1:02
SPEAKER_02: And we're we're back with some bad news.
1:05
SPEAKER_02: Yay.
1:05
SPEAKER_02: I got six things, six warning signs.
1:09
SPEAKER_02: Your youth ministry is in trouble, buddy.
1:12
SPEAKER_02: So we're not starting back on a high note, nope, but a somber note, I guess.
1:18
SPEAKER_02: And I got six.
1:20
SPEAKER_02: Why?
1:21
SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
1:21
SPEAKER_02: That's what it came out to.
1:23
SPEAKER_02: I just write, and then when I'm done, I'm done.
1:25
SPEAKER_02: So, number one warning sign your youth ministry is in trouble, is parents are having to drag their kids there, not the other way around.
1:36
SPEAKER_02: Um, and you might be laughing like Jeff, his little chuckle there.
1:40
SPEAKER_02: Uh, but that is that is a scenario that we do come across is parents forcing their kids to go to the youth group.
1:49
SPEAKER_02: And that should be a like an alarm bell for you.
1:54
SPEAKER_02: If you are noticing students do not want to come, they are being forced to come.
1:58
SPEAKER_02: The way that it should be is that kids can't get enough and they're forcing their parents to bring them.
2:04
SPEAKER_02: I want to go to church this weekend, I want to go to youth group on Wednesday night or whatever night, and they're like doing everything they can to try to be there.
2:12
SPEAKER_02: And now, could I diagnose it in an episode like this?
2:17
SPEAKER_02: No, I don't know if you're in that situation why parents have to drag their kids, not the other way around.
2:23
SPEAKER_02: But it's definitely something you want to get to the bottom of in terms of asking students, asking parents why, you know, can you give me some feedback of why it's difficult to get your child to come to church?
2:37
SPEAKER_02: Maybe asking some other leadership people.
2:39
SPEAKER_02: I recently did a church audit, not because they were having, they were having the opposite problem.
2:45
SPEAKER_02: They're having so many kids come that they needed to kind of restore some health in some areas.
2:51
SPEAKER_02: So you might want to have someone come in and like audit you in the sense of they come and observe and they are like, okay, if I were a 12-year-old, fill in the age there, what would what is not hitting right now?
3:08
SPEAKER_02: Um, what do they observe?
3:10
SPEAKER_02: You might need some fresh eyes to do that, and you might not be able to see what someone from the outside sees.
3:19
SPEAKER_02: It's like a secret shopper kind of thing, you know?
3:22
SPEAKER_02: And so you might need to enlist somebody to do that for you.
3:25
SPEAKER_02: However, you plan to do it.
3:26
SPEAKER_02: You just need to get to the bottom of why are we not?
3:30
SPEAKER_02: I always describe it as like knowing our customers.
3:33
SPEAKER_02: Obviously, we're not selling anything or a church, but it's like we know our customers.
3:39
SPEAKER_02: We're junior high ministry, we do junior high ministry.
3:43
SPEAKER_02: If I was high school ministry, I would need to know high schoolers and do high school ministry, children's and so on and so forth.
3:49
SPEAKER_02: So there could be a lot of problems.
3:50
SPEAKER_02: Maybe you're trying to reach too many age demographics, and it's just not working because you're spread way too thin, trying to cast such a wide net where you need to focus your ages a little bit more narrowly.
4:04
SPEAKER_02: Especially, I was just looking at a picture of our daughter.
4:07
SPEAKER_02: We're putting up Christmas ornaments, and there was an ornament she made at school with her picture on it.
4:12
SPEAKER_02: It was only two years ago, and she looks like she's a teeny toddler.
4:17
SPEAKER_02: And she was only 10 and now she's 12.
4:20
SPEAKER_02: And it was like, oh my gosh, like you look so young.
4:23
SPEAKER_02: So it's hard if you're trying to reach fourth grade through 12th grade, you know, there probably will be things that you miss.
4:32
SPEAKER_02: It's just not realistic to reach that age group.
4:35
SPEAKER_02: Um, maybe our youth group isn't fun enough or hitting that age group what they deem as fun.
4:42
SPEAKER_02: Maybe there's no opportunities for connection.
4:45
SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
4:46
SPEAKER_02: There could be a lot of reasons.
4:47
SPEAKER_02: I'm just throwing out a few.
4:49
SPEAKER_02: But if you get the sense that kids are being dragged there, you know, and maybe their first time it makes sense to be dragged there.
4:56
SPEAKER_02: I had a kid who, you know, his parents are forcing him to go because he was brand new.
5:01
SPEAKER_02: He didn't know anyone.
5:02
SPEAKER_02: But once he got to know some people, he was okay.
5:06
SPEAKER_02: And so if you just notice that's not like an exception but a rule, if it's a pattern that's like, why do kids hate it here?
5:16
SPEAKER_02: You've got to address it.
5:18
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's not gonna get better on its own.
5:21
SPEAKER_02: Number two warning sign that your youth ministry is in trouble is that your attendance is on a consistent downward trend.
5:30
SPEAKER_02: Now, I wouldn't be too scared of this one because you might be thinking, oh my gosh, last week we had 40 and this week we had 30.
5:40
SPEAKER_02: It's like, okay, well, that's one week.
5:43
SPEAKER_02: I'm talking about a consistent downward trend, not the past two weeks.
5:48
SPEAKER_02: I'm talking about the past 12 months.
5:52
SPEAKER_02: You know, I would say if you're consistently downward after a year or two and it's not leveling out, you might need to reassess some diagnostics of what is going on.
6:04
SPEAKER_02: What is why are we trending down?
6:07
SPEAKER_02: Now, if you're staying the same, that might be okay.
6:10
SPEAKER_02: But if you're trending down for a year or two, I would like to know the answer.
6:16
SPEAKER_02: If it, if it were my administrative, I'd like to know the answer why.
6:20
SPEAKER_03: Right.
6:20
SPEAKER_02: I think there can be answers why, and they can be legitimate.
6:24
SPEAKER_02: Like we inherited a really small incoming class and we offloaded a huge outgoing class, meaning we graduated 108th graders and we only got 26th graders or something like that.
6:40
SPEAKER_02: It's like, okay, yeah, we are gonna be just a smaller class.
6:43
SPEAKER_02: There could be reasons why you're small in this season, and you but you've gotta know if it's just consistently downward, doesn't mean people stop coming.
6:53
SPEAKER_02: And the only way you can really tell this is you've got to keep attendance records, otherwise, you're just kind of guessing.
7:02
SPEAKER_02: So, one thing we do it a couple different ways.
7:04
SPEAKER_02: We do take attendance specifically by name in our small groups and on the weekend, but we also give an overall number.
7:13
SPEAKER_02: So, meaning somebody will come in and ask us how many kids are in there because we understand that there's on a weekend, right?
7:21
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we understand that there's a lot of kids who don't do their attendance.
7:25
SPEAKER_02: Um, so if they didn't do it, then they don't get counted.
7:28
SPEAKER_02: And now our numbers are skewed and we're not really working with reality.
7:31
SPEAKER_02: So they come in in real time and say, How many kids are in here?
7:35
SPEAKER_02: And I count one, two, three, four, five, so that you can't miss it.
7:39
SPEAKER_02: And then they ask how many leaders, and then they get a total number.
7:43
SPEAKER_02: And that is actual real hard, like concrete numbers, not like, well, they missed attendance or they were late and didn't fill out their card or check in on the computer, however, you do it.
7:57
SPEAKER_02: And so I like to do that for our midweek program too.
8:01
SPEAKER_02: It's really hard because they're always moving.
8:04
SPEAKER_02: You know, you need people to be sitting in chairs or something to count them.
8:08
SPEAKER_02: But I like to do a count like that as well because inevitably the small group leaders will forget to take attendance, or there's a new kid who's not registered and couldn't do attendance, or you know, something like that.
8:19
SPEAKER_02: So make sure you're keeping accurate attendance so that when you go to look at your numbers, you because sometimes you're like, it feels small.
8:27
SPEAKER_02: But then if you really look at the numbers, you're like, no, just all the big personalities aren't here for some reason.
8:32
SPEAKER_02: They all had a football game.
8:34
SPEAKER_02: But it's like you need to work with reality so that you don't get scared for no reason or get comfortable for the wrong reasons, but that you know exactly who is coming in and going out every single week, and you're working with concrete numbers.
8:52
SPEAKER_02: So just pay attention.
8:54
SPEAKER_02: There's natural ebbs and flows to attendance, obviously.
8:58
SPEAKER_02: You know, seasonal and yeah, seasonal vacation, classes are different sizes, all kinds of things.
9:05
SPEAKER_02: So, like I said, you would have to be studying this over a large period of time.
9:11
SPEAKER_02: And don't pat yourself on the back too much if you grow huge all of a sudden, too.
9:15
SPEAKER_02: Growth is really not that impressive unless it's resulting in retention.
9:20
SPEAKER_02: And we're gonna talk about that in a second.
9:22
SPEAKER_02: Because if people are just like showing up, but they're not connecting, staying, growing, then it's like, then what was the point?
9:31
SPEAKER_02: You know, hopefully they went to another church where they are.
9:34
SPEAKER_02: But worst case is they were like, eh, you know, like it was impossible to be known.
9:38
SPEAKER_02: It was impossible to get involved, it was impossible to be seen.
9:42
SPEAKER_02: You know, I just flew under the radar.
9:44
SPEAKER_02: I attended churches like that throughout my whole life, where like I always was going to our church, you know, the church I work at now, but like a random college group, you know, I'd get invited to, or a random high school group I'd get invited to.
9:58
SPEAKER_02: And it was impossible to get traction in these places because nobody would ever say hello.
10:05
SPEAKER_02: Nobody was keeping track, nobody was giving you the spiel of like how to get connected here and here, fill out this thing.
10:12
SPEAKER_02: Like nobody, it was just so like fend for yourself kind of environment, which maybe some people like, but I just kind of felt like a visitor forever, you know?
10:24
SPEAKER_02: I just felt like a perpetual, eternal visitor.
10:27
SPEAKER_02: And I think that's a really difficult spot to put students in when we basically ask them to fend for themselves while you figure out how to get connected and plugged in.
10:38
SPEAKER_02: It's like, okay, well, I'm brand new here.
10:41
SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
10:42
SPEAKER_02: You know, we just need to sort of take them under our wings so that they go from visitor to connected and connected to core, like eventually moving down that funnel to becoming making this their community and their home and ways to get involved.
10:59
SPEAKER_02: And so if we leave it up to them, that it doesn't always happen.
11:02
SPEAKER_02: That was a little bit of a tangent, but I think it serves what we're talking about today.
11:07
SPEAKER_02: So, number three warning sign that your youth ministry is in trouble is uh nobody's bringing their friends, and it serves your youth ministry, is basically serving insiders only.
11:19
SPEAKER_02: And there are youth ministries that get very stagnant in that way, and that they say, Oh, well, yeah, we have 20 consistent kids coming, but they're all the children of the adults that go, and then they're all siblings, and it's like, oh, well, we have a junior high brother and a high school sister, and they all come.
11:41
SPEAKER_02: That's great, right?
11:42
SPEAKER_02: Those kids need youth group, but if you're not pulling from the outside, that could be a little bit of a warning sign that you only speak insider language, you only serve who you already have, and you don't have a presence of outreach or you don't have a draw in your community, and you're not giving signals to students that this is a place you definitely want to invite your friends because if it's too close-knit, people know intuitively this is really good for us, but my friends at school wouldn't even know what to do here because it's like a family, which we always say that like it's a good thing, and it is, however, families can be awkward, it exactly, and so it's like, well, do we have room at the table for other people?
12:37
SPEAKER_02: And do people sense that this is for everyone, not just our little tight-knit group?
12:44
SPEAKER_02: And so if you're noticing you're only reaching your church kids, the families of the church or parents who come, the adults who are members of your church, they send their kids and there's nobody else coming in.
12:57
SPEAKER_02: I don't think your youth ministry is serving its full potential.
13:02
SPEAKER_02: Because I think, and I've said this on an episode before, that youth ministry really can be a growth engine of a church.
13:10
SPEAKER_02: Because when students start inviting their friends because they're getting fed, and this is a place you want to be.
13:16
SPEAKER_02: This is a place I'm proud to invite my friends because they're gonna love it and I don't have to sell them on it or feel like, oh no, what is my youth pastor gonna do or say it's what's my crazy uncle gonna say?
13:26
SPEAKER_02: Right, is it gonna be weird?
13:28
SPEAKER_02: But they know, like, oh yeah, I could invite someone from my math class, and even if they don't know Jesus yet, they would love it here.
13:36
SPEAKER_02: And then what that trickles down to is that kid from the math class invites their siblings or their parents or their friends, and it becomes this ripple effect that continues to like reverberate outward, and that is the goal of youth ministry, can be such a growth engine for the church.
13:58
SPEAKER_02: So if you are sensing that we are so tight-knit, which is again good, but do we have room at the table for other people?
14:09
SPEAKER_02: Do students intuitively know this is a place for my friends?
14:13
SPEAKER_02: Those are really good questions to wrestle with, with your team, with your staff, with your student leadership team, because uh youth ministry should be for like I, this is my opinion, for the uh children, the students, the teenagers in the community.
14:32
SPEAKER_02: I feel like it is such a cool opportunity.
14:35
SPEAKER_02: Like, especially in our town, it's like it's the best thing going on on Tuesday nights.
14:41
SPEAKER_02: You've gotta be there.
14:42
SPEAKER_02: So I just feel like it's a missed opportunity if it is not signaling invite your friends.
14:50
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
14:50
SPEAKER_02: And that's why, like, you know, we talk about those things, like not every game has to be some biblical message, it can just be fun again, because we know we're I love the way our church phrases it.
15:05
SPEAKER_02: We are believer focused but seeker sensitive, meaning we're not gonna water something down just to make everyone like, oh, we didn't want to offend.
15:15
SPEAKER_02: No.
15:16
SPEAKER_02: However, we understand that we are a mixed bag of believers their entire life, like me, Christians since you're four years old, and people checking it out for the very first time.
15:29
SPEAKER_02: So, how do we hit that note perfectly where the believer who's been walking with Jesus for a long time walks away with something challenging, but the seeker also is met where they're at and doesn't feel like this is so exclusive, I could never reach the point that you guys are at.
15:51
SPEAKER_02: And we send those signals all the time.
15:54
SPEAKER_02: You know, our pastor will do little things like instead of just saying, turn to the book of Job, he'll be like, All right, so God put the table of contents there for a reason.
16:04
SPEAKER_02: Go ahead and check out your table of contents.
16:06
SPEAKER_02: Job is in the first half of the Bible, which is called the Old Testament, and you can find him right in between.
16:11
SPEAKER_01: Like he'll start to and no one who's a seasoned believer or Christian is just going, This is ridiculous.
16:16
SPEAKER_01: How dare you?
16:18
SPEAKER_01: Well, then they are in the wrong place.
16:20
SPEAKER_02: Well, we've gotten communication cards where people be like, Why are you patronizing us?
16:25
SPEAKER_02: We know where the book is.
16:26
SPEAKER_01: That's on them.
16:27
SPEAKER_01: I don't feel like it's patronizing at all.
16:29
SPEAKER_02: And I picked up that language from them as well.
16:32
SPEAKER_02: Like this week I was teaching out of like Romans or something, and I was like, All right, so second half of the Bible, New Testament, Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Acts, Romans.
16:40
SPEAKER_02: You're going to the sixth book.
16:42
SPEAKER_02: If you hit first and second Corinthians, you've gone too far.
16:44
SPEAKER_02: I'll give you a second to get there.
16:46
SPEAKER_02: And then I do a lot of filler so we're not just waiting in dead silence.
16:51
SPEAKER_02: I'll be like, hey, and while you're turning there, and then I talk for about 60 seconds to give people an opportunity.
16:58
SPEAKER_02: And then I say something like, and if you can't find it, hey, you can hear me.
17:04
SPEAKER_02: Just go ahead and listen.
17:06
SPEAKER_02: Here we go.
17:07
SPEAKER_02: And, you know, give them permission to like, well, I tried.
17:11
SPEAKER_02: Right.
17:11
SPEAKER_02: Sometimes leaders will go around and help kids, but I feel like that can also be embarrassing if a leader has to grab your Bible and find it for you.
17:21
SPEAKER_02: But some kids have no shame and they'll just raise their hand and be like, I can't find it.
17:25
SPEAKER_02: Can you help me?
17:26
SPEAKER_02: So, anyways, just that whole concept of being believer focused but seeker sensitive.
17:35
SPEAKER_02: And I love the word sensitive there.
17:37
SPEAKER_02: It's not necessarily seeker friendly, like, oh, well, you know, we'll just cater to because they even walk in with all different levels of knowledge and whatever, but it's seeker sensitive, meaning we're sensitive that you are in a different place, maybe, and we want to make it easy for you to hop on board and see yourself here and see the potential of like I could see myself here instead of it like, what are they talking about?
18:07
SPEAKER_02: And I couldn't keep up, and I've never even used a bio.
18:10
SPEAKER_02: And I have kids who come all the time, never even opened a Bible before.
18:13
SPEAKER_01: And if you haven't, it's fairly confusing, you know, with all there's a book inside of the book, you know, like when turn to the book of whatever, it's like I'm holding the book.
18:23
SPEAKER_01: What do you mean by the book of whatever?
18:25
SPEAKER_01: And then, you know, with the numbers, what does that all mean?
18:27
SPEAKER_01: It's like the first time you read a Bible, it's not just like purely simple.
18:31
SPEAKER_01: I feel like sometimes as we've been Christians for a long time, we kind of forget that absolutely when you just throw out John, you know, John 3, 16.
18:39
SPEAKER_01: What do those numbers refer to?
18:40
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's a good point.
18:42
SPEAKER_02: I you reminded me sometimes I will tell them, all right, big three, little 16, or something like that to help them.
18:50
SPEAKER_02: But yeah, it is intimidating, you know, and making sure that we're like creating a place where they feel like, yeah, maybe I'm not there yet, but I could be, you know.
19:04
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
19:05
SPEAKER_02: So number four, I was talking with my admin slash girls director about this one, and she brought up this point, which I thought was good.
19:16
SPEAKER_02: She said, another warning sign that your youth ministry is in trouble is lack of control of the students, meaning the power balance is flipped, and leaders aren't even hanging out with students.
19:29
SPEAKER_02: And she said, when that happens, she had a really good point.
19:33
SPEAKER_02: She's like, we as leaders have to get stricter.
19:37
SPEAKER_02: So, like when we lose control of the students and now they're in charge, we have to like double down on discipline and security and like parameters and boundaries and official stuff because we can't trust you people, and we have to make, and I've had ministries like that.
19:54
SPEAKER_02: My own ministry, like has gone through that season a time or two, not just once, a few times.
20:01
SPEAKER_02: And we have to get stricter.
20:03
SPEAKER_02: And she said, when we're stricter, we're a lot less welcoming.
20:08
SPEAKER_02: And then going back to the last one, people are a lot less likely to invite their friends.
20:13
SPEAKER_02: So if it feels like lockdown, yeah, it ends up becoming kind of this vicious cycle.
20:19
SPEAKER_02: So just staying on top of discipline in the first place and making sure, like when you sense you're losing control in an area, you need to address it immediately in a nice way.
20:36
SPEAKER_02: Like, I really don't want students to feel like they're at like a Christian version of Juvie, you know.
20:44
SPEAKER_02: I'm like, that's not what I want to do here.
20:48
SPEAKER_02: But I also have to be the gatekeeper of our culture and our safety and our the level of respect that students have.
20:58
SPEAKER_02: And I know we have all walks of life that come in, but you know, I always tell them something like, hey, it's my job to make sure everyone is safe and I put a level of trust in you.
21:10
SPEAKER_02: I just need you to be respectful.
21:12
SPEAKER_02: I know you don't understand maybe everything that's going on here or whatever, but you just can't disrespect my leaders or whatever the offense might be.
21:23
SPEAKER_02: You can't, you know, slap another kid in the face.
21:27
SPEAKER_02: Sorry, we're just not gonna tolerate that.
21:29
SPEAKER_02: And so I'm very firm with the boundaries, but I always remind them but we're so glad you're here.
21:34
SPEAKER_02: We like having you here, we want you to keep coming.
21:37
SPEAKER_02: I just need you to row the same direction as us, you know.
21:43
SPEAKER_02: And I feel like over the years, I've gotten really good at talking to students about their behavior.
21:51
SPEAKER_02: And it's important that you do it before they overthrow you.
21:56
SPEAKER_02: Because here it gets pretty discouraging when the culture runs away from you and you no longer feel like you're in control anymore and you're on 100% behavior management.
22:07
SPEAKER_02: But if you can put out the little fires as they come, hopefully they don't erupt into this big wildfire that now you're trying to put out, but putting them out little by little.
22:20
SPEAKER_02: And what I've noticed is it's usually like a small group who's leading the charge on these things.
22:28
SPEAKER_02: And if you can just eliminate them, or not eliminate them, just off with their heads.
22:35
SPEAKER_02: If you could just like talk to them and eliminate their problematic behavior, then usually it dies down.
22:43
SPEAKER_02: You just have to figure out who's the ringleader here, who's causing this, who's, you know, getting everyone all riled up, who's coming up with the plan.
22:54
SPEAKER_01: Right.
22:54
SPEAKER_02: And once you can kind of address that person, then it can kind of die down.
22:59
SPEAKER_01: Have you ever noticed, too, this is kind of interesting about specifically junior high, but when you have, let's say, a ringleader who's an eighth grader and they and they graduate, they move on to like the high school ministry, a new ringleader will rise up.
23:12
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
23:13
SPEAKER_02: Someone's gotta be.
23:14
SPEAKER_01: It could have been somebody new, it could be somebody that's been there for a while, but it's like this this role needs to be filled by somebody, and there's there's a student waiting in the wings to fill that role.
23:23
SPEAKER_02: I've noticed that with everything too, like, not just like the naughty, mischievous ringleader kid, but like there's kids that I'm like, I didn't know you could talk.
23:35
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
23:36
SPEAKER_02: Like now that the eighth graders are gone, like you're confident and you're brave and you're vocal and you're funny and you're, you know, volunteering and raising your hand to do stuff.
23:45
SPEAKER_02: It's like, where were you a whole year ago?
23:48
SPEAKER_02: But they just feel this new lease on life or something like, I I I can be a star now, I can be myself because maybe the eighth grader energy really overshadowed their confidence or something like that, which I can understand.
24:05
SPEAKER_02: Eighth graders can be intimidating for even leaders, you know.
24:10
SPEAKER_02: It's just like, yeah.
24:12
SPEAKER_02: Um, okay.
24:14
SPEAKER_02: Number five, if you're a warning sign is that you're not spiritually, you're not challenging them spiritually enough.
24:23
SPEAKER_02: So, you know, we were talking about being seeker sensitive, and we were saying, okay, but that doesn't mean you're like, let's make everything easy peasy, water it down so that everyone can understand.
24:37
SPEAKER_02: But I think youth ministry can kind of run its course.
24:41
SPEAKER_02: I I saw this meme the other day, and it was like when you're at church and you come to the point where you realize a funny story and a Bible verse aren't gonna cut it anymore.
24:54
SPEAKER_02: And I was like, yikes, you know, like that's a lot of youth ministry, is like we tell these stories, make them laugh, make them laugh, which is a good thing.
25:04
SPEAKER_02: Humor is helping the learning process, but at the same time, are we being spiritually shallow or are we unintentionally teaching moralism?
25:14
SPEAKER_02: Like, hey, kids want to learn a new way to be good, right?
25:18
SPEAKER_02: Respect your parents.
25:20
SPEAKER_02: All right, let's play dodgeball.
25:21
SPEAKER_02: And so it's just like not challenging them enough.
25:25
SPEAKER_02: But when we dive a little deeper with students, and I was really honest with them this week and I said, guys, because they kept saying, What if I don't understand the Bible?
25:34
SPEAKER_02: I'm like, you can understand more than you think you can.
25:37
SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, and when you hit a part of the Bible that you're stuck on, I gave them some online commentaries.
25:43
SPEAKER_02: I'm like, this stuff is accessible to anybody, like, you know, it's 2025.
25:49
SPEAKER_02: You guys can like, you're experts at the internet, go and find, you know, Bible study tools.
25:55
SPEAKER_02: And so in our teaching, I said it a million times.
25:59
SPEAKER_02: I love the Tim Keller method of you just think he's like reading you a scripture you've heard a million times, and then all of a sudden he comes in with the zinger and punches you in the gut with scripture, and you're just like, oh my gosh, I didn't see that coming.
26:16
SPEAKER_02: And we always want to have a moment where students are deeply challenged, not like you have to teach like Hebrew and Greek and all this stuff to make it seem like you're really smart.
26:28
SPEAKER_02: I'm just saying challenge them with scripture because when we settle for moralism, they can walk away like, what is there left to learn?
26:38
SPEAKER_02: Be good, be nice, don't say bad words.
26:42
SPEAKER_02: We want to get below the surface of that with students so that they understand like how all of this fits together and that it's not just like learning to be a good person.
26:55
SPEAKER_02: It's like having a relationship with the God of the universe and this rescue mission that he's on.
27:02
SPEAKER_02: And, you know, talk about interesting deep things with them of like the afterlife and heaven and hell and spiritual things, and talk to them about the end times if they want to talk about that.
27:13
SPEAKER_02: Talk to them about the history of the world according to the Bible and how science and the Bible match up and how science is just catching up with the Bible, and that the scripture leads the way with all of that kind of stuff.
27:28
SPEAKER_02: It's fascinating.
27:29
SPEAKER_02: And what we hope to accomplish is graduate them with an unshakable faith because they know how this all works together, and this is bigger than just Jesus loves me, this I know, which is very important.
27:44
SPEAKER_02: However, students want to know well, if all these other religions think they're right and we think we're right, what makes us right and them wrong?
27:52
SPEAKER_02: That's probably the number one question I get from kids.
27:55
SPEAKER_02: How do I know I'm going to heaven?
27:57
SPEAKER_02: Those people think they're going to heaven, are they?
27:59
SPEAKER_02: And why or why not?
28:01
SPEAKER_02: You know, this weekend I taught them a lot about universalism and that not all roads lead to God.
28:07
SPEAKER_02: And actually, like every other religion has an answer for who Jesus is, because you have to answer for who Jesus is, but it's not always the right one.
28:17
SPEAKER_02: And, you know, it's just we want them to see big picture stuff to help them navigate life and faith when they're an adult, because these questions are going to inevitably come up.
28:29
SPEAKER_02: So we always want to teach them how to think biblically about everything, not necessarily just what to think, but how to think.
28:39
SPEAKER_02: Like, where did life come from?
28:42
SPEAKER_02: Where's the origin of life?
28:43
SPEAKER_02: What does the Bible say about it?
28:45
SPEAKER_02: You know, like there's so many fascinating things that I think will create this composite picture for them that when they graduate from our ministry, it's like how I felt.
28:59
SPEAKER_02: Like, even if I wanted it not to be true, it is.
29:04
SPEAKER_02: Like, even if I wish it weren't, it is, you know, and in a world where we were just having this talk with my dad today, where nothing is true, like nothing you see on the internet can be trusted anymore, like anymore.
29:18
SPEAKER_01: But I mean, like more so now than ever.
29:21
SPEAKER_02: Right.
29:22
SPEAKER_02: Like every every news is fake news, and what's the source and what's their bent?
29:26
SPEAKER_00: And what's their bias?
29:28
SPEAKER_00: And is this AI?
29:29
SPEAKER_02: Is this real?
29:30
SPEAKER_02: Is it staged?
29:32
SPEAKER_02: And these reactions aren't even real.
29:34
SPEAKER_01: And this, you know, we're at the point now where like with reaction videos and all that, people will watch them know that they're fake and enjoy it.
29:43
SPEAKER_01: I can't.
29:43
SPEAKER_01: I no, I can't either.
29:45
SPEAKER_01: I mean, this is fake.
29:46
SPEAKER_01: What's the point?
29:46
SPEAKER_01: Watch a movie.
29:47
SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't know, like, this is dumb.
29:49
SPEAKER_02: Like, oh my gosh, he did not see that coming.
29:51
SPEAKER_01: His reaction was priceless.
29:53
SPEAKER_01: His reaction was fake, and you know it, but we're just accepting it and enjoying it.
29:58
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
29:58
SPEAKER_02: And we can't get to the bottom of any.
30:00
SPEAKER_02: Anything.
30:00
SPEAKER_02: And so what we want to teach them is this hey, I want to take you deeper because you live in a world where you can't trust anything you hear.
30:12
SPEAKER_02: Everything's a filter, everything's fake news, everything's staged.
30:16
SPEAKER_02: And where can we point them of something that they can know with absolute certainty and navigate life with?
30:24
SPEAKER_02: And that is scripture.
30:26
SPEAKER_02: But we have to teach them how to use it, how to digest it, how to see it, how to process it, where to find things, how it all works together.
30:35
SPEAKER_02: So create more of a complex, maybe not complex, complex might not be the right word, a more dynamic picture of what our faith is, what the Bible is, who God is.
30:48
SPEAKER_02: We want them to see it and experience the fullness of it, not just topical lessons along the way to get them through to, you know, adulthood or something.
31:01
SPEAKER_02: Hey friend, I just wanted to interrupt this episode for a second to let you know about an awesome opportunity for you and your youth ministry.
31:08
SPEAKER_02: So last year we launched our course and coaching program called Youth Ministry Growth Accelerator, and the response has been amazing.
31:17
SPEAKER_02: So we've helped tons of youth pastors grow the size and health of their youth ministry.
31:22
SPEAKER_02: And we want to invite you to be a part of that as well because maybe you're just sort of feeling stuck in a rut, maybe you don't know what to do next.
31:30
SPEAKER_02: Maybe you just have a vague plan in your mind of what you're doing and you want some real help to get you from where you are to where you want to go.
31:38
SPEAKER_02: So if that sounds like something you've been looking for, go to grow your youthministry.com and check it out for more details.
31:45
SPEAKER_02: All right, let's get back to the episode.
31:47
SPEAKER_02: And then lastly, a warning sign your youth ministry is in trouble will be if there's no opportunities for them to serve or lead.
31:56
SPEAKER_02: And that's sort of what we were saying earlier is people get stuck in this perpetual state of being a visitor and they can't quite seem to get out of it and they don't know how to figure out where to go next.
32:09
SPEAKER_02: And it's a super discouraging place to be.
32:12
SPEAKER_02: The first step would be like get getting them in a small group.
32:15
SPEAKER_02: That's kind of moving past a visitor.
32:17
SPEAKER_02: But once they're in a small group, you know, as they grow in their faith, they might want to start using their God-given gifts and their passions and their skills and abilities that God has given them.
32:31
SPEAKER_02: Are we providing them with an opportunity to do that?
32:34
SPEAKER_02: If not, I think retention and overall satisfaction in being a part of the church body really do go down because we weren't meant to be spiritual consumers.
32:46
SPEAKER_02: Like spiritual work wasn't just meant to be my job or the youth pastor's job, but our job is to, scripture says, equip the saints.
32:58
SPEAKER_02: So our job is not to do all the ministry and hoard it all for ourselves, but equip and deploy, equip and deploy, equip and deploy and disciple along the way and mentor and train and coach and train up and all of those things.
33:13
SPEAKER_02: But equip and deploy is like a youth pastor's calling.
33:18
SPEAKER_02: We can't just say, Well, I'm gonna do the ministry, you guys consume and leave.
33:22
SPEAKER_02: That's not giving them the full experience of their faith, and that will run dry, you know, for a lot of people.
33:32
SPEAKER_02: And it would have run dry for me.
33:34
SPEAKER_02: I feel like someone inviting me into junior high ministry really did save my faith.
33:40
SPEAKER_02: I think I was getting really bored in the sense of like, is this all there is to church?
33:49
SPEAKER_02: Like, I've been coming to church and going to a Christian school since I was, you know, a baby, basically.
33:56
SPEAKER_02: Like, is this all there is?
33:58
SPEAKER_02: I I would like something else.
34:00
SPEAKER_02: And it was like, oh my gosh, this is a whole other side.
34:03
SPEAKER_02: Using my gifts, being a part of a leadership team, having a purpose, having something to do, and that like it was like I was almost reborn all over again.
34:14
SPEAKER_02: It was like a full second chapter to my faith.
34:18
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
34:19
SPEAKER_02: And so are we giving people opportunity to do that?
34:21
SPEAKER_02: For me, that comes through the vehicle of a student leadership team.
34:26
SPEAKER_02: But you can give opportunities to anybody, you know.
34:30
SPEAKER_02: If you have a smaller youth group, I mean, I just can't give jobs to, you know, all my students, but I can do it in the form of a student leadership team.
34:38
SPEAKER_02: And then those newer students they can join it next year, and then they can have their turn and you know, figure it out and all of that.
34:46
SPEAKER_02: So, anyways, I feel like I say this at the end of every episode.
34:50
SPEAKER_02: There's probably more red flags out there, but that's all we are gonna talk about today.
34:54
SPEAKER_02: That's probably enough for us to stay awake thinking about at night.
34:59
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
35:00
SPEAKER_01: No, it's a good um, I mean, you can do this at any time of the year, you know, in analyze your youth ministry kind of diagnosis going on.
35:07
SPEAKER_01: But being that this is coming up in the end of the year, at least when this is being recorded, it's a great way to kind of take a look at that stuff so you can go into the new year fresh and kind of think like, okay, what are some things that we need to change and what are some problems that we need to identify and correct?
35:19
SPEAKER_01: So uh we have a couple episodes as you were talking.
35:22
SPEAKER_01: I was writing some of these down.
35:24
SPEAKER_01: If you want to go and check these out, it would probably be a good idea if you wanted to go deeper.
35:28
SPEAKER_01: So one of them was going from talking about going from a first-time student to student leader, kind of like that path, I guess.
35:35
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
35:36
SPEAKER_01: When a student comes to the first time, how do you take them from that first-time visitor all the way to becoming that core student who's a student leader?
35:42
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
35:43
SPEAKER_01: Uh, another episode is the four different types of students, kind of that, how did you say a believer focused but seeker sensitive?
35:51
SPEAKER_01: Sensitive, yeah.
35:51
SPEAKER_01: And there's four main types of students that will be coming to your youth ministry.
35:55
SPEAKER_01: How can you sort of minister to all four?
35:57
SPEAKER_01: Make sure you guys check out that episode.
35:59
SPEAKER_01: And then finally, if you want one more, um, for those of you who have maybe a youth group that's a little wild or out of control, how do you kind of rein that back in?
36:07
SPEAKER_01: Uh, we have an episode about that, sort of kind of like regaining the um control of a wild youth ministry.
36:14
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
36:14
SPEAKER_02: So and like I feel like one skill that's really helped me is becoming a parent myself.
36:22
SPEAKER_02: Like getting control of their behavior.
36:24
SPEAKER_02: Like, I feel like I have to work that muscle all the time as a parent.
36:30
SPEAKER_02: So, like with students, like I have no problem moving them right away.
36:34
SPEAKER_02: Or I'm like, hey, I've already given you an opportunity to sit by your friends.
36:38
SPEAKER_02: You have not taken that opportunity responsibly.
36:41
SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna, I'm not kicking you out, I'm just gonna move you because I don't want you to distract anybody from what we're doing here.
36:49
SPEAKER_02: I used to be a lot like slower to that, of like, oh, I don't want to do, but now it's like I have to correct children all the time.
37:00
SPEAKER_02: So what it's one more, you know, in a loving way.
37:03
SPEAKER_02: But I feel like being we'll probably do a whole podcast on that, but being a parent has made me a much better youth pastor.
37:12
SPEAKER_02: Not that I wasn't good before.
37:15
SPEAKER_01: It just kind of helps you see things maybe in a different perspective.
37:18
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
37:18
SPEAKER_02: Under and I understand kids in a different way too, now for sure.
37:23
SPEAKER_01: Well, let's do a community comment of the day.
37:25
SPEAKER_01: Um, this comes from Diana Da Silva, who's actually given us many comments in the past, and we appreciate all of them, Diana.
37:33
SPEAKER_01: This one was great.
37:34
SPEAKER_01: Um, it says, You guys are simply the best.
37:36
SPEAKER_01: I've learned so much from you, and this episode was perfect for me because I do have a very small youth group, so it's inspiring.
37:43
SPEAKER_01: This came from the how to make a smaller youth group feel a much bigger episode.
37:48
SPEAKER_01: Um, she said, My favorite episode is probably the one with the last minute games when you don't have time to plan.
37:54
SPEAKER_01: May God continue to bless you abundantly.
37:57
SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you, Diana.
37:58
SPEAKER_01: I'm glad you liked those episodes, and thank you guys for watching and listening.
38:01
SPEAKER_01: And we'll see you next time.
38:03
SPEAKER_01: I'm glad you appreciated the last minute games episode and the how to make a smaller youth group feel much larger.
38:08
SPEAKER_01: We appreciate you.
38:09
SPEAKER_01: I said larder.
38:10
SPEAKER_02: You did, but I was gonna let it go.
38:14
SPEAKER_02: Larder was my nickname in high school.