Latest / Wrongful Conviction / #469 Jason Flom with Calvin Buari

Transcript

#469 Jason Flom with Calvin Buari · Wrongful Conviction

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: I've never been in trouble in my life. I didn't
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: even have a parking ticket, you know what I mean.
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: I was brought up like cops are the good guys.
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: I didn't know what was going to happen, but I
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: do know that everything was stacked against me. Everything like everything.
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: This isn't supposed to happen this way. I'm innocent. I
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: know I'm innocent.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: I know I had nothing to do with this.
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: How is this possible?
• 0:28
  Speaker 3: I grew up trusting systems. I've grew up believing that
• 0:31
  Speaker 3: every human being should do the right thing. And that's why,
• 0:34
  Speaker 3: even though I knew I was dealing with corrough people,
• 0:36
  Speaker 3: I wasn't going to break anyone to get me out
• 0:38
  Speaker 3: of prison because I wouldn't live with the fact that
• 0:41
  Speaker 3: I break my way out of my wife's death.
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: I'm not innocent, too proven guilty. I'm guilty until I
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: prove my innocence. And that's absolutely what happened to me.
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: Our system.
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: Since I've been out ten years, it has come a
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: little ways, but it's still broken.
• 0:56
  Speaker 3: I totally lost trusting humanity after what's happened to it.
• 1:02
  Speaker 4: This is wrongful conviction. Welcome back to wrongful Conviction with
• 1:19
  Speaker 4: Jason Flamm. Today's episode features two extraordinary people. Steve Fishman,
• 1:25
  Speaker 4: the journalist who was the host of Empire on Blood,
• 1:29
  Speaker 4: which played a role in the ultimate reversal of the
• 1:32
  Speaker 4: conviction of our other guest who was in prison for
• 1:36
  Speaker 4: over two decades for a double murder he didn't commit.
• 1:40
  Speaker 4: And that's Calvin Bari.
• 1:42
  Speaker 5: Calvin Buari was convicted of a double homicide in nineteen
• 1:46
  Speaker 5: ninety five, but maintained he was innocent for more than
• 1:49
  Speaker 5: two decades. He was released last year after his conviction
• 1:52
  Speaker 5: was overturned, but prosecutors threatened to retry the case until
• 1:56
  Speaker 5: last week.
• 1:58
  Speaker 4: So Steve, welcome to the show.
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: Thanks for having me.
• 2:01
  Speaker 4: Jason and Calvin Welcome to Wrongful Conviction.
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: Thank you. Thanks for having me. Jason.
• 2:06
  Speaker 4: Let's get right into the story, because your story has
• 2:09
  Speaker 4: more twists and turns than a Hollywood movie. I would say,
• 2:13
  Speaker 4: let's go back to the beginning. Calvin, where did you
• 2:15
  Speaker 4: grow up?
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: I grew up in the Bronx. I grew up at
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: nine to twenty two East to eleventh Street in the
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: northeast section of the Bronx Wakefield area.
• 2:26
  Speaker 4: And what was that like? What was your childhood like,
• 2:28
  Speaker 4: did you have brothers, sisters? Were your parents at home?
• 2:30
  Speaker 4: Was it a tough neighborhood? What was the situation growing up?
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: That's where I was born, But I was moving around.
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: Where was that At one time? I was staying in Brooklyn,
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: in the Brownsville area. You know, it's very rough, especially
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: in the seventies at that time. I was a baby
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: when I was in the Bronx, but I came back
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: to the Bronx because that's where my grandmother lived, and
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: my mother ended up moving back with her mother. Your
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: dad wasn't around, No, my dad wasn't around. He left
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: me when I was about I think three or four
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: years old.
• 3:02
  Speaker 4: And what about brothers and sisters.
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: I have one brother, one younger brother who's a year
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: younger than me. His name is Abdull. That's just a
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: brother on my mother's side. I have a whole lot
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: of other siblings on my father's side as well that
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: I just recently started getting in contact with.
• 3:21
  Speaker 4: Got it Okay, So you grew up in well difficult circumstances, right,
• 3:27
  Speaker 4: dodge in trouble and ultimately getting into getting into trouble,
• 3:33
  Speaker 4: but not the trouble that you were convicted of. Right, No,
• 3:35
  Speaker 4: absolutely not, And that's part of the crazy story. So
• 3:39
  Speaker 4: you were known as a fixture in the drug trade
• 3:42
  Speaker 4: at the time that this went on, right, Yes, And
• 3:45
  Speaker 4: you were in the crosshairs of the police as a
• 3:48
  Speaker 4: result of the fact that you were a known dealer.
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 3:51
  Speaker 4: And can you just give us a quick overview of
• 3:54
  Speaker 4: what your life was like when you were in the
• 3:56
  Speaker 4: game in the Bronx back then.
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: I mean, when I was in the game, I could
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: say I was on top of my game, my lifestyle
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: was good, I had money, and I was doing well,
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: you know. So I don't know what else I could
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: say about that.
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: I mean I could have add a little bit of
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: a few details. Cal sometimes likes to talk about him,
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: but you know that's not who he is now. So
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: I understand a little shyness about it. But cal Is
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: he once told me he was living the life. And
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: we think of people imitating rap stars now, but rap
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: stars back then were imitating people like cal So. He
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: had a couple of mink coats, he had a matching
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: mink hat. He had two what he called black Man's wishes,
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: which b m W. The car that let people know
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: that he made it, And I think Yeah, that was
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: part of the great thrill of it, But in the end,
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: that brought a lot of attention into the can all
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: the wrong kind of attention.
• 5:03
  Speaker 4: I'm not judging one way or the other. I don't
• 5:05
  Speaker 4: think anybody can unless they walk a mile in your shoes.
• 5:08
  Speaker 4: That being said, how did this crazy situation unfold? You
• 5:13
  Speaker 4: were convicted of a murder in nineteen ninety two. So
• 5:17
  Speaker 4: on that faithful night of September tenth, nineteen ninety two,
• 5:21
  Speaker 4: two brothers, Elijah and Saladin Harris, twenty four and twenty
• 5:25
  Speaker 4: five years old, were murdered in cold blood as they
• 5:27
  Speaker 4: sat in the car eating their food, and that's what
• 5:31
  Speaker 4: started this whole chain of events that led to your
• 5:35
  Speaker 4: wrongful conviction. Yes, were you there at the time.
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: I wasn't on the scene where the crime happened at
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: I was in the middle of the block. It was
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: probably what like five hundred or one thousand feet away
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: from where the incident actually took place when it had happened,
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: But I was always in and around that area at
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: all times. That was the block that I was known
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: for selling drugs at.
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: Just to set the scene. One of the things that's
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: kind of incredible cow was a drug distributor, a very
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: good one. I mean, he's got immense entrepreneurial talents, which
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: also served him well when he was in prison and
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: managing his own case. But the thing that's incredible going
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: back to the late eighties early nineties, is that the
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: cops target Cow and they say it out loud, it's
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: in the newspaper, we want Cow Buari and they go
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: so far as to say he's not only a murderer,
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: we believe a drug dealer who walks around flaunting his success,
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: but he knows black magic.
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that was like the biggest propaganda in the world.
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: I think that only happened because they figured out that
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: I had an African last name, and instead of me
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: knowing this black magic as they proclaimed, they were the
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: ones that were really on the witch hunt and they
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: just wanted me by all means necessary. And one of
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: the things that I learned later is this is the
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: way that Alan Caaren when he mentions how you know,
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: he utilized different tactics and angles, that was actually one
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: of his biggest tools. Because what happened was when I
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: went to trial, not only did he ambush me with
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: surprise witnesses that me or my lawyer didn't know about
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: who was coming into wrongly accuse me. He also utilized
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: the media, so now jurors were actually getting that article
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: delivered in little flyers to their houses while I was
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: on trip.
• 7:51
  Speaker 4: Wow, you never heard selling before?
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think there was even like a newsletter,
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: a co op newsletter.
• 7:57
  Speaker 4: That did this.
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: And you know, Alan Karen's the prosecute. He works for
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: the bronx DA, He's got a big reputation. He comes
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: in like they're throwing their heavy hitter at it because
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: they want Col. And you know, Cal has in their minds.
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: I think he's you've been accused of another murder and
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: Cal keeps eluding them, and this kind of engenders this
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: ferocity on their part to let's get Cow.
• 8:26
  Speaker 4: And that's something that I talk about a lot. You know,
• 8:28
  Speaker 4: when they take this talk about black magic like a
• 8:33
  Speaker 4: witch hunter, they decide they're going to get Col. Right.
• 8:36
  Speaker 4: That means, now this double murder happens, are like, how convenient,
• 8:39
  Speaker 4: we'll pin this on you. But in the meantime, that
• 8:42
  Speaker 4: means by definition that they're totally willing to ignore the
• 8:46
  Speaker 4: actual killer or killers, who are then going to be
• 8:49
  Speaker 4: free to go do it again, But I want to
• 8:50
  Speaker 4: go back a little bit because there you are five
• 8:54
  Speaker 4: hundred one thousand feet away whatever shots ring out. I mean,
• 8:57
  Speaker 4: this was a very violent time, right was there a
• 9:00
  Speaker 4: were shootings a frequent thing in the neighborhood.
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: I mean in that era, murders were at an all
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: time high. New York I think at that time was
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: the murder capital. You know, you had two thousand and
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: something murders a year. Looking back at that time and
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: that age, you know, literally I knew that when I
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: was in the lifestyle I was in every day that
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: I walked out my house, I knew I was putting
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: my life on the line. But you know, to me,
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: it was a sacrifice because I felt like I had
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: to beat a man of my household because my father
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: wasn't around and I was the oldest sibling, and my
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: mother lost a job and she was struggling.
• 9:40
  Speaker 4: So even in a neighborhood where shootings were a regular occurrence,
• 9:45
  Speaker 4: this was a double murder of two brothers, and you
• 9:49
  Speaker 4: heard the shots. Did you go to the scenes, and
• 9:51
  Speaker 4: then how did it happen? When did the arrest happen?
• 9:53
  Speaker 4: And when did you start to see that this was
• 9:55
  Speaker 4: really going to be your undoing.
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: After that happened, I had immediately ran to the opposite
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: end of the block and I was with a friend
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: of mine's, John Parris, you know may rest in pieces
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: not here today. And then when I walked back up
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: to the block, we walked to his house because he
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: had drugs on him, and we started seeing police come
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: to the corner of the block. So we wanted to
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: know what was going on because we just heard the
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: shots go off. So once he had took what he
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: had in the house, we walked up to the block
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: and that's when I found out that two guys had
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: got murdered.
• 10:30
  Speaker 4: Did you know those guys?
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: No? I didn't.
• 10:33
  Speaker 4: Were you arrested on the spot or no, I wasn't.
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: I was arrested six months later. I was arrested because
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: Aldrick Griffin, he was one of the leaders of the
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: Shower Posse, the Jamaican gang called the Shower Posse, and
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: from the records that I had read, he had gotten
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: locked up for inoperable or a firearm, a weapon, and
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: I think some drugs. He already wanted to get me
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: off the block because he was also my competition of
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: course the street, so that's how I got arrested. He
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: falsely accused me for killing the Harvest brothers.
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: And remember, I mean this block gets called eventually Corner
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: on Blood, right on that corner, and you know, some
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: years later, there's like seven eight nine shootings within the
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: span of a month, So this becomes a very very
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: hot block. Juliani comes in, he wants to clean it up.
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: Calf kind of falls into that to that profile in
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: a big way. But when they first arrest him, I
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: think it's March of ninety three, so that's like six
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: months after the actual executions. It's an aspirational arrest. I mean,
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: they got one witness who may or may not hold
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: up in court, but they want Cal off the street.
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: So hey, we're gonna throw him in jail for as
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: long as we can, and we're going to try and
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: develop a case while we're holding him, and they don't
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: have a case. It takes some years, and the thing
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: that comes out is that they're actually about to walk
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: away from this case. They're completely bluffing. Cal mentions Alan Karen,
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: the prosecutor, and really he tells me in the podcast
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: he had no case. He says, I was bluffing. I
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: was going to take this as far as I could
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: and then dismiss it. And then there's a twist and
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: a turn that intervenes three years later.
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: I wanted to touch on that too. I literally have
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: to commence Steve because I think that he did a
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: more thorough investigation than any prosecutor, than any lawyer that
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: I ever had, than any detective that was ever on
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: my case. And he talked to every single individual that
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: had anything to do with my case. And you know,
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: with that bluff that he said that was a violation
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: of the sixth Amendment to my speedy trial rights. He
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: never had had a case against me. They always knew
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: that that guy initially was lying. When he got arrested,
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: he immediately went back to Jamaica. He wasn't trying to
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: cooperate with them. He just utilized me to get out
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: of jail and possibly get back on the block to
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: try to take over what I had going on out there,
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: you understand. And the sad part about it is when
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: you talk about Alan Caaron, you talk about one of
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: Robert Johnson's leading hitman, so speak.
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: That Johnson's the district attorney in the Bronx for twenty
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: five years.
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And with him, it's sad because I know that
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: that man has a lot of individuals possibly in prison
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: right now for cases they didn't commit. And with Robert Johnson,
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: the reason why I brought him up is because under
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: his tenure, the Bronx had the most Brady violation and
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: prosbittorial misconduct violations than any other borough. And none of
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: them ever has been chastised or punished for none of
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: these acts. So when they get away with doing these things,
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: they walk around as though they are above the law,
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: like with impunity that they have no punity. So it's
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: just sad, you know, rather than see justice done, Alan Cameron,
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: rather uphold the conviction. And that's who this man is.
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: And it's just a lot of other people that I
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: know that are in the situation that I am, because
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: when this God took a set on you, he was
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: gonna go by all means to take you down, period
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: and he showed that clearly when he spoke to Steve.
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: He has no impunity for that, you know.
• 14:39
  Speaker 4: No, it's something that we talk about unwrungful conviction a lot,
• 14:42
  Speaker 4: which is that until we are able to get rid
• 14:45
  Speaker 4: of prosecutorial immunity, which is almost total, but probably the
• 14:50
  Speaker 4: only profession that enjoys that type of protection. Right, almost
• 14:54
  Speaker 4: any job that you do. If you're a doctor and
• 14:56
  Speaker 4: you mess up, you know you're going down. I mean,
• 14:58
  Speaker 4: it's like and there's so many exis samples of that,
• 15:01
  Speaker 4: but they're able to get away with just insane things.
• 15:05
  Speaker 4: I mean, it's the most powerful position in the justice system.
• 15:09
  Speaker 4: I think most people think that a judge has an
• 15:12
  Speaker 4: ultimate authority, but we know, those of us who are
• 15:14
  Speaker 4: in this business, no, definitely that the prosecutor has so
• 15:18
  Speaker 4: much power. They can drop charges whenever they want to,
• 15:21
  Speaker 4: for whatever reason they want to. They can throw the
• 15:24
  Speaker 4: harshest penalties at you. In an attempt to bluff, as
• 15:28
  Speaker 4: you said, to get you to cop a plea.
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: Cow Is offered a plea three years, three years, and
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: he turned it down because he's innocent. And you know,
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: to your point about the prosecutors, one thing that happens
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: is the system gives them, legitimately by law, enormous advantages.
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: Now imagine six witnesses come forward and testify against cal
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: and they're really drug dealers who have been in the
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: scene or people who have committed crimes, and the prosecution
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: is allowed to encouraged to hand out deals.
• 16:04
  Speaker 4: Sure. And so.
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: There's actually a guy in prison and they go to
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: him and they say how long you want to do
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: right or you can testify against Cal. And by the way,
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: there's a guy who's very close to Cal. This all happens.
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: It's a kind of intimate drama. It all happens within
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: most of it, within a circle. But the second advantage,
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: and this is what really shocked me. I think when
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: I looked at the transcript, you know, eleven hundred pages thick,
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: Cal had it sent to me. This is of a
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: trial in nineteen ninety five. As Cal alluded to. The
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: prosecutor goes to the judge and says, Calvin Buari black magic.
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: Calvin Bari is so dangerous. We need in order of protection.
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: The judge says, all right, you know, I mean the
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: judge isn't running this. It's the prosecution that's running this.
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: He says, Okay, I don't want to be on the
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: front page of the New York Post if something happens.
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: And so that means that Cal and his attorney cannot
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: know who is going to testify against him until the
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: witness walks.
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: To the stand.
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: Now, I mean, imagine that kind of disadvantage and that's legal.
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: To your point, Jason, there's a kind of immunity. Whether
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: I don't think it's in the law, but it in practice.
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: Prosecutors are not held to account for there. Let's give
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: it the best, the best interpretation. They're mistakes. Sometimes those
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: mistakes are due to overzealousness or refusal to look at
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: the facts, and it doesn't have an impact on a career,
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: so you know, recidivism, that's what we're talking about, right.
• 17:45
  Speaker 4: They are in fact immune in so many ways. Freedom
• 17:56
  Speaker 4: Agenda is a proud sponsor of this episode of Wrongful Conviction.
• 18:00
  Speaker 4: Freedom Agenda is led by people directly impacted by incarceration,
• 18:04
  Speaker 4: and they're organizing to get Mayor Eric Adams to follow
• 18:07
  Speaker 4: the law and shut down Rikers Island. Right now, thousands
• 18:10
  Speaker 4: of people are awaiting trial there in life threatening conditions.
• 18:14
  Speaker 4: Freedom Agenda is committed to creating a safer and more
• 18:18
  Speaker 4: just city by winning investments in long neglected communities, protecting
• 18:22
  Speaker 4: the rights of people involved in the criminal legal system,
• 18:24
  Speaker 4: and ending the cycle of violence that Rikers perpetuates. To
• 18:28
  Speaker 4: learn more about the campaign to close Rikers and to
• 18:30
  Speaker 4: sign up for Freedom Agenda's mailing list, go to campaign
• 18:33
  Speaker 4: to close Rikers dot org, slash get involved, or follow
• 18:37
  Speaker 4: at Freedom Agenda and Why on social media. There's a
• 18:46
  Speaker 4: couple things that I want to highlight. One is that
• 18:49
  Speaker 4: had they really believed that you murdered two people in
• 18:53
  Speaker 4: cold blood, there's no possibility they would have offered you
• 18:56
  Speaker 4: three years. That's ridiculous, right, That's just I mean that
• 19:00
  Speaker 4: you have you really have to suspend a lot of
• 19:03
  Speaker 4: layers of disbelief in order to try to give yourself
• 19:06
  Speaker 4: around that one. And what you were talking about is
• 19:09
  Speaker 4: a legal principle that was developed in England centuries ago,
• 19:12
  Speaker 4: which is called trial by ambush, right, which was where
• 19:15
  Speaker 4: they would not tell the defense anything that they were
• 19:18
  Speaker 4: going to say or do, or who they were going
• 19:19
  Speaker 4: to bring in. Their thought was that this way they
• 19:22
  Speaker 4: would get to the truth because they would just use
• 19:25
  Speaker 4: this surprise tactic. But of course it's just patently unfair.
• 19:30
  Speaker 4: And now we have the Brady decision from nineteen sixty
• 19:33
  Speaker 4: four in which the Supreme Court said that prosecutors have
• 19:37
  Speaker 4: a duty, that obligation to disclose exculpatory evidence to the defense,
• 19:43
  Speaker 4: but they left it up to the prosecutors to decide
• 19:45
  Speaker 4: what they considered to be exculpatory. So they really they
• 19:48
  Speaker 4: had it right, and then they sort of pulled the
• 19:50
  Speaker 4: rugout from under their own decision, which left us in
• 19:53
  Speaker 4: this situation where we see time and again in New
• 19:56
  Speaker 4: York State, it's common that they sometimes they turn it
• 19:59
  Speaker 4: over the day of the tr trial too, right, so
• 20:01
  Speaker 4: it's like, oh, here's the stuff, and then what are
• 20:02
  Speaker 4: you supposed to do? Like, you can't, you can't, you
• 20:05
  Speaker 4: can't examine it.
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: And investigate, you can't do anything. It's absolutely what you said,
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: it's a trial by ambush, I mean, and that's how
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: I was ultimately sadbag and convicted because if you're looking
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: at the ambush and you're looking at the media that
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: was brought up against me, then you have six individuals
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: that say they know me, and some of them I
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: didn't know, then you got a conviction. I'm not innocent
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: to proven guilty. I'm guilty until I prove my innocence.
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: And that's absolutely what happened to me. But I also
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: think that Alan caaron to to touch more on that
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: point that Steve brought up. He was actually promoted after
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: all of that. He was Robert Johnson's ada top dog
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: in that office, and he allowed him to do whatever
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: he wanted to. That's why he has that attitude that
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: he has. Would you believe that out of four file folders,
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: three of those filfolders went missing and my case complete?
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: So you know, this is the new tactic that Alan
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: Karon employed. He's not only gonna turn over the sculpatory evidence,
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: he gonna make sure that the any esculpatory evidence just disappears. Period.
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: So what do you do now when you have evidence
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: that they have in their possession they possibly always knew
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: I didn't commit the crime that you're gonna never be
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: able to get your hands on. There's also some type
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: of justice reform that needs to be done with that.
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: I think that there needs to be an open case
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: foul with the defense attorney and the prosecutor. Because there
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: are both officers of the court, they share the same
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: ethical duty. It shouldn't be a disadvantage where they have
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: all the power. And then if you have anything that
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: can support your position and you'll never get it.
• 21:47
  Speaker 4: Yeah, you'll never know about it, and it is crazy.
• 21:49
  Speaker 4: But the fact is that, as we all know, in
• 21:51
  Speaker 4: a civil trial, everyone has to turn over everything and
• 21:54
  Speaker 4: all you're arguing about is money. In this case, they
• 21:56
  Speaker 4: were arguing about your life. And that's for some reason
• 21:59
  Speaker 4: that's not true with the same level of respect by
• 22:01
  Speaker 4: the justice system as money is, which just strikes me
• 22:05
  Speaker 4: as Alice in Wonderland, like completely upside down and inside out.
• 22:08
  Speaker 4: It doesn't make any damn sense. So back to you,
• 22:11
  Speaker 4: did you know after you go through this trial, they
• 22:14
  Speaker 4: have these witnesses, every one of which was an incentivized witness, right,
• 22:18
  Speaker 4: and you know, had every reason to lie. They didn't
• 22:21
  Speaker 4: really care about you. In some cases they wanted you
• 22:23
  Speaker 4: convicted because, as Robinson did, he wanted you off the
• 22:26
  Speaker 4: street so he could have it to himself. So, I
• 22:28
  Speaker 4: mean he had multiple reasons he was getting off and
• 22:32
  Speaker 4: he was going into a better business situation, yeah, because
• 22:35
  Speaker 4: his main competitor was going to be behind bars. So
• 22:37
  Speaker 4: when the jury went out, did you think you had
• 22:39
  Speaker 4: a snowballs chance in hell of being vindicated?
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: I mean, truthfully, I put my faith in God and
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: at that time, and I'm taking myself back to that time,
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: I didn't know what was going to happen, but I
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: do know that, you know, everything was stacked against me.
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: Everything like everything.
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: Let me just add to that, because Dwight Robinson he's
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: a key, key character. He's a guy who he idolized Cal.
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: He's four years younger. He admires Cal and then for
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: whatever internal dynamics, he feels spurned. He's hurt. He's also
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: at the same time really ambitious, and that results in
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: an attempted murder of cal So Dwight Robinson emerges as
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: the central witness. He organizes the prosecution. The prosecutor uses
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: the word to me. He says Dwight Robinson was a gift.
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: Dwight is bringing people into the prosecutor's office in the
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: back of police cruisers. So he is not only an
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: arm of the prosecution, he's like a lieutenant of the prosecution.
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: They can't do it without him. He has just I
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: think three months prior to tried to murder cal in
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: weeks priorly three weeks Pride just in a hall, bullets
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: in an ambush, right, and that information is kept from
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: the jury in this sense, it's brought up. Dwight denies
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: it on the stand. At the same time, according to Dwight,
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: and Dwight spent a lot of time talking to me.
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: According to Dwight. It's common knowledge among the prosecutions, certainly
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: among the cops or the detectives. And at one point
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: I said to Dwight, I said, were you surprised that
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: they let you commit perjury on the stand? And he said, nah, nah,
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: I understood the game. It's dirty all around. You tell
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: the truth, you're going to lose every time. That may
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: be the most chilling thing that I heard. You know,
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: that kind of organization, that kind of organizing of the prosecution.
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: In fact, that kind of by Dwight Robinson, that kind
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: of utilizing of the prosecution, becoming this collaborator of the prosecution.
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: And I think Calius phrase trying to kill Cow by
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: other means. He failed with bullets, So now he teams
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: up in the prosecution. And by the way, Dwight admits
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: that he says, yeah, I wanted to get Cow off
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: the street and I saw this opportunity. So cal has
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: to spend the next two decades of his life proving
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: the Dwight Robinson, this guy once idolized him.
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: Is a liar.
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: And that's I mean, that's a drama that shouldn't be
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: imposed on to anybody. But it is an amazing drama
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: to follow.
• 25:29
  Speaker 4: And let's get to that because that's one of the
• 25:31
  Speaker 4: more interesting aspects of this case, I think, is that
• 25:34
  Speaker 4: you end up being convicted. You were sentenced to fifty
• 25:39
  Speaker 4: years of life, fifty the life, right, so that's pretty
• 25:41
  Speaker 4: much game over. But you didn't give up. It would
• 25:45
  Speaker 4: have been pretty easy to give up at that point,
• 25:47
  Speaker 4: you know, I mean you have now seen the justice
• 25:50
  Speaker 4: system at its worst, and you know what they're capable of.
• 25:54
  Speaker 4: You know that they're they're hiding stuff, they're bringing.
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: On witnesses riding with his sentence to lie.
• 26:02
  Speaker 4: And the most nefarious characters they're bringing on to the stand,
• 26:05
  Speaker 4: like Robinson, right, who they knew was a bad guy, right,
• 26:08
  Speaker 4: but they didn't care. So you know what they're capable of.
• 26:11
  Speaker 4: You know how steep of a hill you've got to
• 26:14
  Speaker 4: climb now, because it just got one hundred times harder
• 26:17
  Speaker 4: because now you're behind bars and you're looking at fifty
• 26:20
  Speaker 4: to life. And then things get really interesting all of
• 26:24
  Speaker 4: a sudden when you get a letter in the mail, right.
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I've received a foot from Dwight Robinson.
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, eight years after his conviction.
• 26:33
  Speaker 4: And where were you serving at this point?
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: I was an upstate correctional facility at that.
• 26:38
  Speaker 4: Time, maximum security, yes, right.
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: And when he wrote me, he started explaining, like I've
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: seen them, remorse in them, because you know, one of
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: the things that or jumped out with me is the
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: fact that he started saying, you know, Cal, I'm on
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: the inside looking out now, you know, I know your
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: hand and called for this, and you know, I started
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: to say some type of remorse, you know, when it
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: started from there.
• 27:03
  Speaker 4: The wait, he was in prison writing to you.
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: Yes, he had been convicted of a different murder under
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: very remarkably.
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: Similar similar circumstances.
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: But so Dwight's doing twenty five to life.
• 27:15
  Speaker 4: Right, And let's just point out for a second that
• 27:17
  Speaker 4: that murder didn't ever really have to happen. If they
• 27:20
  Speaker 4: would have just arrested him when they should have in
• 27:22
  Speaker 4: the first place, he wouldn't have been free to go
• 27:24
  Speaker 4: kill whoever it was if he killed. But okay, so
• 27:27
  Speaker 4: let's just put that on the side for a second. Right,
• 27:30
  Speaker 4: So you're here in this maximum security prison. First of all,
• 27:34
  Speaker 4: is it as bad as it sounds?
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: I mean, yes, I mean, especially at that time in
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: that era, it was a whole lot of I mean,
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: if you look at right because Alan and Upstate in
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: the early nineties, that's when they started to have the
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: most cutting, stabbings and all that type of stuff. So,
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: I mean, Jill is just not a place for nobody
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: to me.
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: I always wondered, Cal. You know, you're sentenced to fifty
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: years to life for crimes you didn't do. I mean,
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: you have to be angry, and I mean it's oh I.
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: Was, and I think that I had missdirected anger in
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: the beginning, and that's what allowed me to end up
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: in the box. But also being afraid, you know what
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: I'm saying. I was in an environment that I felt
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: like you couldn't show no weakness, and if you did,
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: I seen individuals getting raped, stabbed and all type of
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: stuff too. So that's what kind of like I had
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: misdirected anger. So you know, I was doing what the
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: romans to do while and wrong.
• 28:38
  Speaker 4: You know, yeah, I mean, you had almost nothing to
• 28:40
  Speaker 4: lose if they could throw you in the prison within
• 28:42
  Speaker 4: the prison, which is the box, right, But other than that,
• 28:44
  Speaker 4: you're trying to spend the rest of your life in
• 28:46
  Speaker 4: there anyway, So how did you turn that around? Because
• 28:50
  Speaker 4: obviously you found a different year, right, had you already
• 28:53
  Speaker 4: gone through that shift when this letter arrived in the mail,
• 28:56
  Speaker 4: because that's a big moment when that letter gets there.
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, I had already went through the shift at
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: that point. I'm an introvert, so naturally the box was
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: kind of like a good place for me, you know
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: what I'm saying. Not only was I alright with myself
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: that I noticed that a lot of other individuals they
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: couldn't live with themselves inside of prison. And that's why
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: a lot of people do a lot of things that
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: they do. They want to stay on the gate, they
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: want to get high, they want to get into fights,
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: because you know, I do mine as a devil's playground.
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: So that's what I kind of grew at when I
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: was in solitary confinement. This book by James Allen called
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: as a Man Think. If I read that book, it
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: was a simplistic book to me. However, it kind of
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: like related to me so well because it made me
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: look at the glass half full of instead of half empty,
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: you know, and it allowed me to even look at
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: and messed up situations the good out of it. Even
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: though I have fifty years to life, I know a
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: lot of individuals that were in the grave and I
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: still felt like I was alive, so I'm blessed regardless.
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: And that's the mindset that I got into once I
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: read that book, and once I started with that positive energy,
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: that's what really gave me the sense of fied because
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: at the time, I started to beat myself up to
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: the point of saying, you know, I was a drug dealer.
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: Maybe I was belong in jail, because in the beginning,
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: that's what I was telling about myself. You know, I
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: never got locked up for selling drugs, so maybe this
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: was a recompense for my actions. And once I got
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: into the positive mind frame, it made me throw that
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: away and say, you know, I'm in here for somebody
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: didn't do. If I was here for drugs, it'll be
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: all right. I did the crime, I'll do the time,
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: but I'm in here for a double homicide I did
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: not commit. And I just started getting into the books,
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: legal books, started reading up on. I started contacting a
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: lot of attorneys, a lot of investigators. The Innocent Project
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: was one of the main ones. I was in correspondence
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: with Barry Shek, Vanessa Pokin, Nina Morrison, and a couple
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: of others in an Innocent Project office. But at the time,
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: even though they were corresponding with me, they were not
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: taking cases that did not have DNA evidence at the time,
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: So you know, they were leading me to other law
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: firms that were taking pro bono cases that dealt with
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: wrongful convictions that did not have DNA evidence. At that point.
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: Is like the gears shifted for me. And once I
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: started to dig into my case. I'm a very determined
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: and resilient person. Once I put my mind in something,
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: I won't stop until I feel like I'm gonna get
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: it done. I'm not gonna hear no full answer, and
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna keep pushing until I can't push no more.
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: I met Cal after he found that book, and that's
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: a book that came out in like nineteen oh three
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: something that is by a British guy. It's not a
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: Col's World, but if you read it, what it says
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: essentially is you can create your own reality by controlling
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: your thoughts. And Cal probably the most disciplined person I've
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: ever met in terms of thinking positive, and he had
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: enormous setbacks. It is not only does he get that letter,
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: but imagine Dwight is in one prison, Cal is in
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: another prison and they are suddenly put together. They suddenly
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: come together at which Clinton correction Clinton Correctional Institution, and
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: they meet in the yard. So there's this guy who
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: has maybe has been put away for something, and then
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: there's this other guy who says, you know, I testified
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: you and I shouldn't have, and I mean, tell about
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: that meeting.
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: What made me more comfortable is the fact that I
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: received that letter that he confessed to the crime right
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: before I actually met him, because I don't think that
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: I possibly would have went to the yard to meet
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: him when he wanted to meet me. But I have
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: received the confession letter, and I seen him in the
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: mess hall and he told me to come to the yard,
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: and I really wanted to hear what he had to
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: say outside of the fact that he was now saying that,
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: you know, he committed the crime. And when I talked
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: to him, I felt CONTRISTI he started crying, and he
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: said the same thing. I'm on the tide looking out.
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: I want to do the right thing to get you
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: outcause you're in here for something you ain't do. And
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: we just started talking and I just wanted to get
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: certain answers from him on why he did what he
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: did it, and you know that's what we talked about.
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: I mean, so if you can imagine Dwight actually confesses
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: to a double murder that Cal's convicted for in this
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: prison yard, and then what happens is on the basis
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: of that, on the strength of that, Cal actually gets
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: a four forty hearing. So now he's back in court
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: and there's somebody else who's confessed to this crime. I mean,
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: Cal has to believe he's going home.
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: Except that on Frank Vigiano and Detective John Wall they
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: were very ambitious for the DA and they were not
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: going to allow that to happen because, like I said,
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: there was a witch hunt outpha. Me and Alan Caroon
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: was at the driving seat of that vehicle, and they
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: worked over time to make sure that Dwight Robinson took
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: back that confession, right.
• 34:57
  Speaker 4: Which is another crazy aspect of this case, because because
• 35:01
  Speaker 4: you probably were thinking, well, okay, that's where this thing's
• 35:04
  Speaker 4: winding down. Now you got a written confession, he confess
• 35:08
  Speaker 4: to you verbally in writing, and he's coming to court
• 35:12
  Speaker 4: to the lawyer, and that should be saying this was
• 35:14
  Speaker 4: two thousand and three, right, yes, Yeah, So two thousand
• 35:17
  Speaker 4: and three he'd been in for ten years already, maybe eleven,
• 35:20
  Speaker 4: and you're going to court. And did you think when
• 35:22
  Speaker 4: you went to court for that hearing that you were
• 35:24
  Speaker 4: going home? Yes?
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: I really did? You know?
• 35:28
  Speaker 4: It sounded like it to me.
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah. The next best thing the DNA is a confession,
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: you understand, And that's what I thought until he came
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: in and you know, he got understand and he started
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: doing what he'd do best. He started lying, so so.
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: You didn't know until he got on the stand that
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: he was going to take back his confession.
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: I think we did find out that he did take
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: it back. But to me, when I said I seen
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: him and how I felt with the meeting when I
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: met him, I didn't. I felt like I'll be the
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: DA or the detectives were pressuring them like they did.
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: But I felt like, still, he'll probably come to court
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: and tell the truth, you understand. But he didn't.
• 36:11
  Speaker 4: It's it's a remarkable plot twist, and then your case
• 36:14
  Speaker 4: falls apart, right, I mean, he recants his recantation, right,
• 36:18
  Speaker 4: so he's reversed himself again. Now his credibility is really
• 36:22
  Speaker 4: out the window, right, because they's hard to tell when
• 36:24
  Speaker 4: somebody is lying when they're when, you know, when they
• 36:26
  Speaker 4: keep changing their story. I assume that they switched him
• 36:30
  Speaker 4: to a different prison at this point. Did you have
• 36:31
  Speaker 4: to go back to the same prison together after this?
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: No, before we even went to court, he had left
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: the facility that we were I think immediately after the
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: confession he left. And you know what's so funny about that?
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: I don't know, man, but it just seemed like a
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: conspiracy too, because that naturally doesn't happen where they put
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: individuals that testify against you, with the guy, you know,
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: that type of stuff. It just seemed kind of funny
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: that they did that, you know, like they really wanted
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: me to really bury myself your father. You know, I
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: think about that all the time.
• 37:07
  Speaker 4: These dirty tricks are just I just don't I really
• 37:11
  Speaker 4: don't understand them. As we skip ahead, there were other recantations,
• 37:15
  Speaker 4: There were twists and turns. Then twenty fifteen comes. Two
• 37:18
  Speaker 4: decades have passed, You've went behind bars, and now things
• 37:22
  Speaker 4: finally take a turn for the better. You've had Steve,
• 37:25
  Speaker 4: who's here with us now, who's been investigating your case,
• 37:28
  Speaker 4: diligently fighting for you. Do you have an innocence project
• 37:33
  Speaker 4: helping you you have pro bono attorneys who have taken
• 37:36
  Speaker 4: your case.
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: Myron Belldock, the greatest lawyer and the planet Earth that
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: ever woke this planet Earth.
• 37:43
  Speaker 4: Yeah, his name is gold. So you got Myron. I mean,
• 37:46
  Speaker 4: you went from having the odds really stacked against you.
• 37:50
  Speaker 4: And it's a credit to you, by the way, because
• 37:52
  Speaker 4: it would have been really easy for you to just fold,
• 37:54
  Speaker 4: but instead, somehow or other, from inside this darkest place,
• 37:59
  Speaker 4: you manage to enlist literally the dream team behind you.
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: Absolutely.
• 38:05
  Speaker 4: So twenty fifteen comes what happens.
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: I had the investigator working on a case and he
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: actually was able to get some new leads. And once
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: the new leads came out with the two sisters that
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: were actually like about ten to fifteen feet away from
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: the crime when it happened. They lived right where the
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: crime happened at and they actually seen Dwight do to crime.
• 38:30
  Speaker 4: There's a plot twist, no, I mean, and we've seen
• 38:32
  Speaker 4: that again and again too, where the witness is the
• 38:34
  Speaker 4: actual killer and there's an incentive to lie right.
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: Once once I got that information, I think I was
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: in touch with Martin Tankliff at the time. I was
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: also in contact with Jabal Collins who was working for
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: Joe Rudin. I really wanted Joe ruden as my attorney
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: at the time, but I wrote Myron Bell Doc, the
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: great Myron Bell Doc, you know, who actually represented Hurricane
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: Carter and a whole lot of other people. And when
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: I wrote to him, he gave me his number so
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: I could call him and talk to him. And from
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: the initial start, man, I just loved this guy. He
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: treated me like family. He showed that I mattered, and
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: I don't think that at that point, I never had
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: an older male figure in my life that actually genuinely was,
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: you know, acted concerned for me or my well being.
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: And he was actually going for surgery at the time,
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: and he didn't even know if he would have been
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: able to take the case. And it was so funny that,
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: you know, I initially wanted Joe Rudin so bad, but
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: you know, Joe Rudin wanted his money. You know, he
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: didn't care about nothing, no innocence of any of that.
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: He wanted his money. But the funny thing was Myron
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: had told me that if I take the case, if
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: you could get somebody to assist me, then I feel
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: better because I'm getting ready to go through the surgery.
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: So I contacted Joel at that time, and once I
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: once he found out that Myron Belldock was on the case,
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: he was willing to jump on board now. So that
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: was kind of ironic. That's the first time that he
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: ever stayed on the phone with me for an hour,
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: you know. And actually Myron started to get better, he
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: started to heal better. And once I told him that,
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: you know, Joe Ruden would be willing to co counsel
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: with him, he said, don't worry about we don't need
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: him no more. I'll be all right. I got I
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: got it, you know what I mean. And you know
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: that's how Myron was. And I had right after the surgery,
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: and it was very touching for me. I had called
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: him in the office. I don't know as it was
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: like eight pm and I thought he was being home recuperating.
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: Heling up. Myron was still in the office working, and
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: here it is this man he's almost eighty years old.
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: And you know, that meant a lot to me because
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: I never had attorney to that point that I felt
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: like was given my case. They're old, you understand here
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: it is. I had the best of the best when
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: it came to the attorney and I'm calling him now
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: and he's on my case. You understand that he should
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: have been home recuperating. I just never met a guy
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: like that, you know, amazing guy.
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: You know. I spent a little time with Myron. Cal
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: actually never met Myron. Didn't have that good fortune. But Myron,
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: I don't think he's so too much to say. He
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: came off his deathbed to really represent Cal. He had
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: prostate cancer, he had heart problems. When I met him,
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: he had a tumor behind his eye, so his left
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: eye actually bulged. He'd look at you, but that left
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: eye kind of veered off to the left at a
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: forty five degree angle. It was very disorienting. He's eighty
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: five years old, and he says, this could be my
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: last crusade. And I say to Myron, you're you know,
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: you're either a fool or a hero. And his response is,
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: I think this case is going to make me live
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: five years longer. So myrone is that's where he gets
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: his adrenaline from. And of course the tragedy is that
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: it doesn't make Myron live five years longer. And Cal
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: gets that. I guess you hear a rumor in prison
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: and then you call me and I have to confirm
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: it for Cal. And you know, Cal is a extremely strong,
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: mentally disciplined, emotionally disciplined person. And by the way, physically
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: he can do one hundred push ups without stopping, so
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: you know, he's been in prison twenty years. He knows
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: his way around physical challenges, emotional challenges. And I confirmed
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: that Myron's dead, and you know, for Cal, and I mean, imagine,
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: this is the guy, his savior, his savior now has
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: has died, has passed.
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: And that was like the most crushing blow ever that
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: I ever felt, because I literally felt comfortable with my
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: life in iron hands. You know, I want you to understand,
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: I literally felt like that. I never felt like that
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: with nobody, you understand. So when I lost him, it's
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: like I didn't know where to go after that, Like
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: I finally got the person that was the best of
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: the best that I loved him outside of him being
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: my lawyer, you understand, I loved him as a person,
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: and when I lost him, I just didn't know how
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: to take that, you know, because it was like I
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: just came just so far and to be able to
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: get the guy to believe in me. You know, it
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: was just I just I couldn't help it. I just
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: broke down. And I was in the yard and that
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: that really broke me down.
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: And you broke down on the phone with me. You
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: called me back, and actually I never heard that kind
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: of emotion. I mean you could. You couldn't speak exterially.
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: A person is not going to be able to read
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: emotions and my feelings because in jail, I felt like
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: I couldn't show no weakness. That's how it was in prison.
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: If you showed like the people in prison, there's a
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: lot of predators in there, and if they sense any
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: type of fear, that's when they're coming for you. That's
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: just how it is. It's no other way. It's a
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: savage life in prison. I love this guy, Myron Belldock
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: so much that I couldn't help but to break down,
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: you understand. And I was in the yard with hundreds
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: of men, you understand, And that would be the last
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: place that I would want to break down, because here
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: I am with all of the wolves and stuff like that,
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: and I'm in the middle of that and I'm breaking down.
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: So I was overcome by emotions when I lost.
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: My man and actually I remember you you shouted over
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: your shoulder. I just had a loss in the family,
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: had a loss in the family, so that nobody you're exactly.
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: Also, Myron is the one that gave me the tenacity
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: and the fortitude in order to push on. When I
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: took you to the incident, when Myron was working on
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: my case at eight PM, and I started to read
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: up on everything about Myron. You know, Myron was a
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: guy that just didn't give up period, you know. And
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: I put his pictures up and like a mural of
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: Myron and the cell that I was in, and his
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: spirit just came to me, like, you gotta keep pushing,
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: don't give up, be a fighter. And Myron actually fought
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: for my life while he was fighting for his own,
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: So I wasn't gonna get in a situation okay, now
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: I lost my top guy and just lay down. And
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: just because that's something that I felt that he would
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: never do, so he kind of like put the tenacity
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: in me to just continue to fight.
• 45:49
  Speaker 4: Cal Can you just take us through how you were
• 45:51
  Speaker 4: able to get your conviction reversed.
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: When I went to the supply my second four forty
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: and they entertained that evidence that substantiated that Dwight Robinson
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: actually committed a crime with the Clark sisters.
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: Just to expand briefly, it's a dramatic moment. And cal
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: had always said, you know, there were a lot of
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: people there that night, the night of the shooting, and
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: the scene had never been canvas. Well, you know, the
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: cops did go door to door and they knock on
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: the door of the Clark sisters, kimber Leah and Nikiah Clark,
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: and they don't want to get involved. These are the
• 46:30
  Speaker 2: two eyewitnesses to the crime, to the murder. But the
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: older sister says, no, we heard shots, that's it, and
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: that's what's in the police report. And why Well, years
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: later I asked them. They didn't want it was a
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: block full of drugs and murder. They're not going to
• 46:46
  Speaker 2: come forward. Two decades later, through a series of circumstances,
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: they resurface. They're in North Carolina and now they find
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: out that cow was convicted. They didn't know that they
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: had moved away like a year or so after the murders.
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: They find out and their kind of heartbroken, and frankly,
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: the younger one, who is the one on the street
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: twenty feet away. She feels guilty. She feels guilty that
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: she hasn't come forward and that this man, Calvin Buari
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: is in prison for something she knows he didn't do.
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: So there's this dramatic moment when they walk into court,
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: and particularly the younger one walks into court and I
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: remember the assistant prosecutor tried to pick her apart and
• 47:31
  Speaker 2: rattle her. Okay, it's the DA's job, and she is fiery.
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: She's got this nickname Evelina because when she gets challenged
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: and pushed, there's this kind of fierce character that lives
• 47:44
  Speaker 2: inside of her that comes out on the stand.
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: Thank God for that.
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: And there's this moment because we have the whole courtroom
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: micd and we have a mic right up near the
• 47:54
  Speaker 2: witness stand and you can't hear it in the courtroom,
• 47:57
  Speaker 2: but we picked up where the the it'sistant district attorney
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: is really prodding her and under her breath, eviliness says.
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: And then she returns fire, and you know she doesn't
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: give right and she says, you know, I soa who
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: did it? And it wasn't Calvin Bullar.
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: There you go, yeah, And I wanted to expand on
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: that too, and you know that was so grateful for
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: me too, because I always knew that after my first
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: initial four forty when the witnesses that actually came back
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: who lied that were criminals. You know, I knew what
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: type of games that these prosecutors play with the detectives.
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: And I was always adamant on Steve listen, I want
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: these witnesses this time to have attorneys like I was
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: not going to allow what happened to me previously happened
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: to me again. But it was it was overwhelming that
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: the personality in the spirit of this witness, because that
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: is the very type of witness that I needed to
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: stand up against these type tactics. You understand. And I
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: just want to say too, man, when you when you
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: believe in something, stand for it. If you feel something
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: was wrong, stand for it. And I'm happy that she stood.
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: She stood up, and she stood firm.
• 49:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and the cops did go to her. She was unfortunately,
• 49:17
  Speaker 2: she was in a shelter for abused women. The cops
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: showed up, and that caused a lot of problems in
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: her in her life. But you know, cow was also
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: fortunate he got another attorney warrior, a guy named Oscar Mitchellan,
• 49:30
  Speaker 2: who really in that courtroom, I think helped her tell
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: her story and beat back the assistant DA when she
• 49:40
  Speaker 2: tried to replay the nineteen nineties and said, cow's a
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: bad dude. He was a drug dealer who strolled around
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: and mint coats. But you know it was true. That's
• 49:50
  Speaker 2: not what he was on trial for. He wasn't on
• 49:52
  Speaker 2: trial for being a wealthy drug dealer. And it was
• 49:58
  Speaker 2: Michellan who pointed it out. And Nikki who gets on
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: the stand and fires back, who is the real killer?
• 50:06
  Speaker 2: Who is the person who did the grind for rich
• 50:08
  Speaker 2: Cal's servant?
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: Time right, the tactics will utilized on the key and
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: Kimberlea Clark. She was in the shelter at the time,
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: and when you're in the shelter, you need some place
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: to stay. They went there and made it seem as
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: though she was being looked into for a double homicide.
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying. And these are the tactics
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: that these guys employ to make you know, life hell
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: for a person that just want to fail the truth,
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: you understand. And she got kicked out of the shelter.
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: She got into an abusive relationship after I But like
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: I said, I was so proud they had the personality
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: that she stood up because normally with you know, average people,
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: they're not gonna want to be bothered period. They're gonna
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: care more about their personal situation than wanting to help
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: somebody else that you know, Okay, I want to help them,
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: but I don't want to go through the headaches that
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: I'm going through with my personal life. Let me leave
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: that alone. That's what the person doing. And I'm so
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: proud that this woman stood up.
• 51:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, what's the question you hear today, what's
• 51:13
  Speaker 2: the upside for me? There's no upside for her, but
• 51:17
  Speaker 2: oh John, she stood up.
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 51:20
  Speaker 4: We end up two thousand and seventeen in Bronx State
• 51:25
  Speaker 4: Supreme Court. Yes, and that's the day you had been
• 51:29
  Speaker 4: waiting for since the early nineties. Absolutely, and tell me
• 51:33
  Speaker 4: about that. Can you take us back.
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: To that day when the judge vacated the conviction, I
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: had my room picture in front of me. I had
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: an actual Innocent magazine that came out on time. And
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: before that, the White Robinson was supposed to come in.
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: They couldn't produce the White Robinson. And then when I
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: went back to court, I just kept my eyes as
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: in myself fixated on in God we trust, and like
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: I said, I'm a firm believer in God, so that's
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: my number one attorney, and I believe that the right
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: thing was going to be done.
• 52:13
  Speaker 4: And actually that's what happened and that moment. So it
• 52:18
  Speaker 4: was Judge Eugene Oliver Jor And we're talking about State
• 52:23
  Speaker 4: Supreme Court. This is a big deal, right, I mean,
• 52:27
  Speaker 4: And how did that feel? After decades of fighting and
• 52:33
  Speaker 4: trying to get people to listen, to have a man
• 52:36
  Speaker 4: in that position vacates your conviction.
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: It didn't really hit me at first. I think when
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: I went back to the bullpen, then it really really
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: like really just started to sink in, like I made it,
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: you know, I made it. I'm going on, Yeah, I'm
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: going home. And I got hit with another hurdle. I
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: had to go back to the facility that I was
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: in and stayed for the weekend. And those two days
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: were the longest two days than the twenty two years
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: that I did in prison because I didn't sleep and
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: it was just elate, and I really felt kind of
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: nervous because you know, you get a lot of hateration
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: in prison and I was kind of surprised that the
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: people actually were more happy than upset here. So then
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: I got the day where I came home, which was
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: May eighth, which is tomorrow. That's my second birthday, my rebirthday,
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: and it was sur real. I'm still looking at it.
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: And the nice day that we had a couple of
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: days ago. I stayed out till I think four in
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: the morning, just enjoying the breeze. And when I first
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: came home, my goal wasn't just to come home. My
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: goal was to come home and also build a legitimate
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: entrepreneurial life for myself. So I had goals out of
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: side of just coming home, you understand. So even to
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: this day, I'm still enjoying the little things and it's
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: just still hit me because I ain't give myself a
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: chance to breathe. You know.
• 54:16
  Speaker 4: No, let's talk about that, because three hundred and sixty
• 54:19
  Speaker 4: four days as recording this podcast, as we're sitting here now,
• 54:23
  Speaker 4: you haven't even been out a year, and what you've
• 54:25
  Speaker 4: got going on is going to make a lot of
• 54:28
  Speaker 4: people feel like, wow, this is crazy. I mean, you've
• 54:31
  Speaker 4: got multiple businesses that you started, right.
• 54:34
  Speaker 1: Yes, I have a van company that goes to prisons.
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: It's number one van company by the way. You know
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: in New York State where I had started a new
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: concept that I felt like when I was in prison,
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: a lot of my family members came to visit me,
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: and a lot of the van service they had the
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: old Yankee vans, and they wasn't clean, and they were decrepit,
• 54:56
  Speaker 1: and you know, regardless of what their family members wanted
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: to see their loved ones that weren't concerrated. So they
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: dealt with it. And I felt like our family members
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: deserved the same quality service that a regular civilian to
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: get out in the street. So I started the concept
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: of the uber like prison visit services called riders. Van
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: service is spelled ry d E r Z van service
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: and my numbers eight four five two O four five
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: nine three zero.
• 55:28
  Speaker 4: And you service. How many prisons in New York State?
• 55:30
  Speaker 1: I service the downstate area Right now, I'm serving ten facilities.
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: I'm going to downstate sing sing, Shewonga, Sullivan, Walkkill, wood Burn,
• 55:41
  Speaker 1: green Haven, what else the majorities of the facilities that
• 55:47
  Speaker 1: are close to New York At the present time, I'm
• 55:50
  Speaker 1: moving out further. We're supposed to be getting a bigger
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: bus to go to Elmira, Comstock all burned and the
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: further facilities up. I'm in the process of doing that
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: as I speak, and things are picking up. Doing it
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: with the van service for the prisons to show you
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: know how important implementing family tides are, because they have
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: done statistics that shows that individuals when they're incarcerated and
• 56:17
  Speaker 1: they loved ones check for them, they have a lower
• 56:19
  Speaker 1: rate of reciticism when they come home. And I also
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: plan to have a van go to the female facility
• 56:27
  Speaker 1: and beacon. I think that is for free and I
• 56:31
  Speaker 1: want to be able to give back to the female
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: facilities because I feel like they don't get as much
• 56:37
  Speaker 1: visits as the males do and they have kids and
• 56:40
  Speaker 1: stuff like that, so things are probably much harder, and
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: I want to be able to put it in rotation.
• 56:46
  Speaker 1: Where is that I could go through the whole facility
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: female facility and give each one of them female females
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: a visit. But I want to find a social worker
• 56:56
  Speaker 1: that's intermediary just in case they need somebody to tin
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: put their kids to be able to go see their
• 57:02
  Speaker 1: loved ones, because I know that may be a barrier
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: as well because of the age of the child and
• 57:07
  Speaker 1: stuff like that. But that's another way that I plan
• 57:10
  Speaker 1: to give back.
• 57:11
  Speaker 4: So you got the service, which is it's great there
• 57:14
  Speaker 4: you are doing good while you're doing good and really
• 57:17
  Speaker 4: making life better for those people who are able to
• 57:20
  Speaker 4: now visit their loved ones. I wouldn't be able to otherwise,
• 57:22
  Speaker 4: and we know what a difference that makes to people
• 57:25
  Speaker 4: on the inside.
• 57:25
  Speaker 1: I think that one of the main reasons that I
• 57:28
  Speaker 1: wanted to do that business is because I never wanted
• 57:31
  Speaker 1: to allow myself to forget about where I came from,
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: and by not forgetting that will constantly keep me away
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: from doing anything that will put me back in that place.
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: So I want to constantly be reminded of that, and
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: that's that's how I do it.
• 57:47
  Speaker 4: Yeah, well, I think your future looks really bright. I mean,
• 57:51
  Speaker 4: you are obviously a very smart and capable and entrepreneurial guy,
• 57:57
  Speaker 4: and you know, reapplying your skills and the way that
• 58:00
  Speaker 4: you are is extremely admirable, and I know you're going
• 58:02
  Speaker 4: to be a big success, and I mean I'm looking
• 58:04
  Speaker 4: forward to watching you. I know we were speaking earlier,
• 58:08
  Speaker 4: we were talking about some innocent people that you left behind,
• 58:12
  Speaker 4: and I want to try to bring attention to those cases.
• 58:14
  Speaker 4: And it's entirely possible that by highlighting these innocent people
• 58:19
  Speaker 4: that you left behind that you care so much about,
• 58:22
  Speaker 4: we may be able to affect some change in their cases.
• 58:25
  Speaker 4: So do you want to just talk about that briefly?
• 58:28
  Speaker 1: I'll start off with some of the brothers that I
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: know about case that I've just left in green Haven,
• 58:34
  Speaker 1: that we were actually working on our cases together. That's
• 58:38
  Speaker 1: why I'm so much familiar with their facts. You got
• 58:41
  Speaker 1: a guy named Nelson Cruz that's currently in green Haven
• 58:45
  Speaker 1: who was actually innocent. They did a New York Times
• 58:48
  Speaker 1: article on him. He was actually caught up in the
• 58:51
  Speaker 1: Lewis scar Seller situation and he just recently got denied
• 58:56
  Speaker 1: on his full forty and I believe in him innocence.
• 59:01
  Speaker 1: There's another guy named Paul Clark that actually has almost
• 59:04
  Speaker 1: forty years in that was arrested by the mafia cops.
• 59:09
  Speaker 1: So Paul Clark is one. He's currently at green Haven facility.
• 59:13
  Speaker 1: And you know, you have another young brother that I
• 59:16
  Speaker 1: met named Kyrie Frye who's also at green Haven. And
• 59:20
  Speaker 1: Anthony Reid, but just recently me and Meek Mills was
• 59:24
  Speaker 1: in correspondence with each other, and he just sent me
• 59:27
  Speaker 1: the information of a person that he was inconcrated within
• 59:31
  Speaker 1: Chester at the time. This brother has in twenty six
• 59:35
  Speaker 1: years in prison and the only reason that he's currently there.
• 59:38
  Speaker 1: His name is Eric Riddick. You can look up Eric Ridick.
• 59:42
  Speaker 1: He's in Pennsylvania and Chester, PA and penitentiary. And this
• 59:47
  Speaker 1: brother is actually innocent, and the only reason he's still
• 59:50
  Speaker 1: in concerrated is because a procedural situation whereas that you
• 59:56
  Speaker 1: have to have evidence in at a certain time, and
• 59:59
  Speaker 1: if you we don't have actual innocent evidence. By the way,
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 1: you know, he has evidence that proves his innocent, and
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 1: he has expert evidence that proves his innocence. It's just
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 1: appalling that he's still in prison after twenty six years,
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 1: and this brother needs to be free.
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 4: So we will post the names of all those individuals
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 4: that Cal just highlighted on the website. Get involved and
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 4: maybe we can together help some of these people get justice.
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 4: So we have a tradition here on wrongful conviction, which
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 4: is that at the end of the show, I like
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 4: to turn the microphone over to you, I do what
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 4: I don't do very well, which is that I stopped
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 4: talking and just let you share any final thoughts that
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 4: you have, and Steve, I'm going to start with you
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 4: so that we can have Cal be our cleanup hit
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 4: or here. So Steve Fishman, any final thoughts?
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 2: Well, first off, thanks for having me. It's an incredibly
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 2: important issue and I spent a lot of time on it,
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 2: actually sometimes bit against my will, but you know, Cal
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 2: being relentless whatever, I could never say no, even if
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 2: I wasn't always saying yes. But Empire on Blood was
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 2: really a work of passion and it tells Cal's story.
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 2: And I think what you get from it that you
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 2: don't often get is you you get the thinking and
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 2: the thoughts and the feelings of the prosecutor of Dwight Robinson,
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 2: who not convicted but stands accused by eyewitness of having
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 2: done this murder, of the detective who talked Twight Robinson
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 2: out of his confession. So you really end up with
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 2: a sense of the criminal justice system. And I guess
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 2: the last thing I'd say is, you know, yeah, I
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 2: kind of took a journey with Cal, and sometimes I'm
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 2: given some credit for having pushed his case forward, but
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 2: you know, really all credit to Cal. I just think
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 2: the kind of discipline and persistence in the face of
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 2: enormous disappointment that would have not only disheartened people, but
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 2: I think broken most people. I couldn't have persisted. I mean,
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 2: that kind of instinct and ability is very very rare,
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 2: whether you're talking to people on the outside or people
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 2: on the inside. So you know, all credit to cal
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 2: for realizing is the beginning of his future.
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 4: And now over to you, Calvin Vari, what do you
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 4: got for us?
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 1: I mean, I want to thank Steve for saying that,
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 1: because that means a lot to me because he didn't
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 1: have to get involved with my case, but because of
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 1: my diligence, and I think that, you know, he just
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 1: still he wanted to do the right thing. And it's
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 1: good that we have people like that, whether you're a
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 1: stranger or a friend or not. It's just that I
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 1: feel like people are waking up and they want the
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 1: right things to be done. I think that my last
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 1: words is going to be like what Meek Mill said,
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 1: it's all about justice reform, so these type of things
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 1: don't happen to other individuals. I hope that I'm my
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 1: example to the people that these things do occur and
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 1: we just have to do something so they won't reoccur again.
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 1: That's basically what I have to say.
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 4: Well, now I just want to thank the audience for
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 4: tuning in and listening. This has been an amazing journey.
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 4: And thanks again to Steve Fishman and Calaboari for being
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 4: a part of the show.
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 1: Thank you Jason, Thank you Jason.
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 4: Don't forget to give us a fantastic review. Wherever you
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 4: get your podcasts, it really helps. And I'm a proud
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 4: donor to the Innocence Project and I really hope you'll
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 4: join me in supporting this very important cause and helping
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 4: to prevent future wrongful convictions. Go to Inisonsproject dot org
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 4: to learn how to donate and get involved. I'd like
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 4: to thank our production team, Connor Hall and Kevin Wartis.
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 4: The music in the show is by three time OSCAR
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 4: nominated composer Jay Ralph. Be sure to follow us on
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 4: Instagram at Wrongful Conviction and on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction Podcast.
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 4: Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flam is a production of Lava
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 4: for Good Podcasts and association with Signal Company Number one