Latest / Kenny Wallace Media / Rick Mast Shares Classic NASCAR Stories!

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Rick Mast Shares Classic NASCAR Stories! · Kenny Wallace Media

0:00
Hello, everybody. Welcome to Episode 2.
0:02
Rick, we made it. We made it to episode two of the
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Rick Mast show that has Rick mast.
0:07
I'm Charlie Marlow. Rick, how you doing buddy?
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Matt I'm doing good. I'm doing good.
0:12
Really excited about all the all the hits and views and
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everything we had for the first week.
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I'm like, man, it goes back to when my my saying Charlie, back
0:21
in the in the day, if all the if all the NASCAR fans knew us
0:25
drivers the way I know us, it wouldn't be that big a deal,
0:28
believe me. But maybe that was a maybe that
0:30
was a sweetness or the goodness of it.
0:32
I don't know the humbleness of it.
0:34
Yeah, it was awesome. Episode one, we're going to keep
0:36
on rolling, do this thing almost every week.
0:39
Every once in a while we have to take a vacation.
0:41
But most weeks we're going to do this thing.
0:42
So let's let's start off just with Dover.
0:46
Your thoughts on the race? Another victory for Denny
0:49
Hamlin. He's having a hell of a start to
0:51
his season. Yeah, he is.
0:53
I you know, Denny. Denny is, you know, he's one of
0:57
those. He's a Virginia guy, of course,
0:58
and he's one of those guys, short track guys.
1:00
Mom and dad sacrificed for him and, you know, made the whole
1:03
deal happen. But, you know, and he's came and
1:06
as he's come through the ranks, excuse me, of course he hasn't
1:09
won a championship that all these tractors love to point
1:13
out. But you know, he's taking this
1:15
role on as our villain, you know, I mean, I don't know.
1:19
You know, it's like a good book, dude.
1:20
You got to have what is it you got to have.
1:21
You got to have a hero, a villain and a common folk,
1:24
right. And you know our sport needs
1:26
that and and then it's kind of embracing that role right now as
1:30
far as the the off the track stuff goes.
1:33
But you know on the racetrack that that's really to me the
1:36
basic thing that I always look at it can be can you drive,
1:38
what's your deal on the racetrack?
1:39
Are you good driver, bad driver, aggressive, are you, do you
1:42
wreck people or whatnot? But you know Denny's just one of
1:45
those guys. He's a, he's a winning race car
1:47
driver on that racetrack and everything he does outside of
1:50
the track or outside of the car, you know, he's making his name.
1:55
I don't know it's it's interesting for me to watch
1:57
Denny the last couple years and what what kind of what he's got
2:00
to what he's doing with the with the social media thing again on
2:03
the racetrack you know it's hard to beat good race car driver.
2:07
So you mentioned both Virginia guys.
2:09
Is is he from close to where you're from?
2:12
No. He's on the, he's on the part of
2:14
the state that we don't recognize on our part of the
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state. We're in western Virginia,
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Western, yeah, the western part of Virginia.
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He is more over to the eastern, southeastern side.
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So that's it's the name is the same Virginia, but it's really a
2:27
different state. OK.
2:29
So are Virginia racers though known?
2:32
Sometimes you hear about Midwest racers or dirt track guys and
2:36
you go down to the South. Is is there a style of racing in
2:39
Virginia where it's kind of distinct?
2:43
You know looking back if you go back to my early days and and
2:48
when I started running South Boston and South side of
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Manassas, old Dubidis people, all these places.
2:54
You had these group of drivers that that everybody heard of Ray
2:57
Hendrick right. Sonny Hutchins, Tommy Ellis.
3:02
Gosh there's just so many of them.
3:04
And if you go back further than that you know we Virginia
3:07
produced a lot of race car drivers or cup drivers.
3:10
You start with Curtis Turner and even guys before Curtis Turner
3:14
and be Curtis for Roanoke which is an hour from from me.
3:17
And then you know you go down through the list and and and and
3:21
it seems like over the last few years with the influx of Midwest
3:26
guys and California guys that some of Virginia guys you know
3:30
are not really getting in there like they used to because there
3:32
used to be a lot of Virginia guys would get into because they
3:35
were so good and and you talk about style.
3:38
The style was like all the racing in those days, man.
3:41
It was just rough. You know it's rough and tumble.
3:44
It was eat or or be eaten, you know, and and that's just the
3:47
way it's just kind of way it was.
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And when I was a teenager racing against these guys, I learned
3:52
that, of course, running dirt. I learned that too, right?
3:56
And then you go to asphalt, you race against the Ray Hendricks
4:00
and the Sonny Hutchins and all those guys and you learn, you
4:03
know, this is not playtime. When they drop the green flag.
4:08
It's not playtime, you know? And if you're going to, if
4:12
you're going to cause a rift with somebody, it's going to be
4:16
settled. You know, the roof is not going
4:18
to carry on. But so long because in those
4:21
days those guys, I mean it would get physical.
4:23
Let's I'll just say it the way it is, it would get physical.
4:27
And you see guys eyes black, right?
4:30
You see cars tore up. I mean it.
4:33
It really truly, it taught me how to be mature in the sport.
4:39
I mean, you taught me how to well, if you're going to get
4:42
into a roof of somebody that you know what the the end results
4:46
going to be right? And the end results going to be
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somebody most of the time in those days would be hurt, upset,
4:56
OK, Hurt, upset. Because either your car was tore
5:01
up or you were having to face that driver and two or three of
5:05
his crew guys after the race. And it wasn't a shouting match,
5:11
you know, you just didn't shout it.
5:14
It it it really, it really got into fights.
5:17
So what would happen? Like with me being so young,
5:19
exposed to this, I learned through the years, It's like
5:23
Kitty Schrader told me one time somebody wanted to fight him off
5:26
the race. Said, man, listen, it'd be so
5:27
much easier for us for us to just sit down and drink a beer
5:30
and talk about it and get in a fight, you know?
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And you learn that over time, right?
5:35
You learn to do that. So by the time I got, oh gosh,
5:39
in the in the Bush Grand National, that stuff carried
5:42
over in the Bush Grand National. Even though we cleaned it up,
5:44
NASCAR wanted the cleaner image what we had in the Lake Model
5:47
Sportsman and that was one of the reasons Bush Grand National
5:50
was formed just to clean up all these Saturday night race
5:54
tracks. I mean in you in those days you
5:56
had pockets you like in Virginia, you had the Richmond,
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Langley Field, Southside bunch, right.
6:01
And all those guys you had the Hickory Group and all those
6:06
guys, you had the guys at Caraway, that group you had to
6:10
Asheville, NC group, you had to Maryland the Beltsville, MD
6:14
group. You had to Birmingham, AL group,
6:17
right. And I can name you drivers from
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all these different groups and we would all run these Saturday
6:22
night race tracks, right? And then they had, they had a
6:24
thing called the Late Model Sportsman Championship.
6:26
And that was, it was really a kind of a weird deal because
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like Butch Lindley, you know, Bob Presley, all those guys,
6:32
they would chase the points, you know, like they would go to
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Southside run on Friday night, it would be a Late Model
6:38
Sportsman Championship race and then maybe the next night they'd
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have to be in Birmingham, AL, running a Late Model Sportsman
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Championship. So those guys did that.
6:46
Jack did it. It was usually five or six of
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those guys that would do that. They would go, they'd race on a
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on a Saturday night and and go or drive all day and all night
6:56
to get to the next race and maybe get in somebody else's car
6:59
and run that race chasing those, those championship points.
7:02
So, and it was really pretty rough and tumble in those days.
7:06
So when DASCAR decided to to start the series, the Bush Grand
7:11
National Series, really what happened?
7:13
You took the best drivers of all those different groups and
7:19
combined them and started the touring series which which
7:22
became the Bush Grand National. It started out the first year of
7:24
the Budweiser series and then they changed it to Bush Grand
7:26
National series and that was that was the beginnings of what
7:30
it is what is now Xfinity. Right.
7:32
And that series is what propelled me it it, it let me
7:36
enabled me to showcase bicycles in the late 80s to get in a Cup
7:41
car. OK, that that that was by
7:43
stepping stone. The thing is there's so many you
7:47
know we would run these Saturday night race tracks all the time
7:50
but our big pain races were always they the the combination
7:55
races like we run Hickory and South Boston.
7:57
You know whatever where we was at now this that was
8:00
Pennsylvania. Well the big races were or big
8:03
pain races were the combination races with the Cup cars IE
8:06
Darlington, Dover, Charlotte, Daytona.
8:09
That's where it paid the big money.
8:11
OK And before we go to those races all the Cup guys would
8:16
step down and run these races and and typically normally they
8:20
would dominate because they were just you know they were just
8:23
good. They were just better they could
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say equipment this that the other.
8:28
But in those days we all had pretty much the same equipment
8:30
as those guys but they were just better.
8:32
So a lot of the guys in our in our Butch Grand National Series
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are regulars which fuss and raise Kane all the time at
8:39
NASCAR for the for the would it would it come time for us to
8:43
race for good big money, You know the Cup stars would come
8:46
down and steal our money. Right.
8:49
And I was never into that because I wanted to be a Cup
8:52
driver. You know.
8:53
And there's articles, right, that did stories and reporters
8:56
did this. And I knew that to get the Cup
9:00
that I had to be able to run and Outrun Earnhardt and Tim
9:03
Richmond deal upon it. I had to be able somehow to go
9:06
to Charlotte and and run with those guys, right?
9:09
And you know, I was fortunate enough that I was able to do
9:12
that a number of times at these races.
9:14
I could run with them, you know, a couple times, I outrun them.
9:17
But I was always in the mix. And what happened?
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The guys, our good example is Travis Carter.
9:24
Harry get Harry drove for Travis.
9:26
Well, Travis would set up on that truck and watch Saturday
9:29
races like all the car owners did.
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And you know what everybody all of a sudden they started seeing
9:33
this blue 22 running with their driver.
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Now who the hell is this who's at that blue 22?
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That's that bass fella, right. And that, you know you do that
9:42
for a couple years and then they start noticing you, right.
9:46
So by first Cup endeavor, the the big deal cup endeavor was
9:50
with Travis. Well before that Buddy Baker
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picked me up for two races right in in 88 and he just simply
9:57
picked me up because he was watching me in that blue 22.
10:00
OK, on Saturday running with the guys that he was running with on
10:04
Sunday. Because I'll never forget when
10:06
Buddy called me to drive. His buddy got in the head injury
10:08
and needed to fill in for two races.
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When he called me, I drove that car Bristol and and Darlington
10:14
and I remember him saying, he said, Rick don't do anything
10:16
different, just do like you just drive it like you've been
10:19
driving that Blue 22 I've been watching.
10:20
That's all you got to do, right? So that was my deal or or or my
10:26
take on that and some other guys from Bush come through.
10:28
Now today it's different. You know today I'm like in those
10:32
days you took a, you know, you go get a Banjo chassis or
10:36
Hopkins chassis and you get somebody good to put a body on
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it and do the best you could do with your engine with what your
10:42
finances allowed and just get out there and drive the crap out
10:45
of it. That's what you did.
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You just drove the shit out of it and Earnhardt, Darrell, they
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all had the same kind of chassis, pretty much the same
10:53
bodies. It might have been a little bit
10:55
better for engines but you know if you're if you had abilities
10:57
you could run with those guys and of course now you know it's
11:00
not that way. You know now it's it's it's
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basically, well it's reverted. It's reverted back some, but
11:05
for, for you know a decade and 1/2 it was all Cup cars really,
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or Cup there were there were Xfinity cars, but they were
11:14
being produced in the in the Cup warehouse or the cup shop and
11:17
the drivers are getting them. So it's it's harder.
11:20
You can't showcase your talents the way we used to do it.
11:22
Let's put it that way. It's a different deal.
11:25
Gotcha. So I don't know if you heard any
11:27
of Denny Hamlin's post game comments, but and you mentioned
11:30
this, everybody talks about it all the time.
11:33
Denny has all these wins, what I think 54 now, but he doesn't
11:35
have the championship and he said look, I would rather take
11:39
sixty wins and no championship. Easy over one championship in 20
11:44
wins. And he said something along the
11:46
lines of, look, I think there are worse drivers that have won
11:49
a championship than me talking about himself, obviously.
11:53
So I always think this is a really interesting conversation
11:57
with drivers from your era, How, how do you view what Denny said?
12:01
But also just the championship now and the format where it all
12:06
comes down literally to one race.
12:08
Do you like that? And it hasn't made it.
12:11
Has it made you look at championships differently in
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this era? Oh, definitely.
12:15
It definitely. You're definitely looking at it
12:16
different. You know, I love, I love the
12:19
playoff deal. I I I think it brings drama.
12:23
It really does. I think it brings attention to
12:26
their sport. What I don't like is the part
12:30
that I just hate about it is coming down to whatever set up
12:35
you got and whatever luck you got on that one particular, one
12:39
particular race. And that's the last race race of
12:43
the season, right? You've done everything to get
12:45
there, but you know, maybe you've won a bunch of other
12:49
races, you run better than the other guy, the biggest part of
12:52
the year, but that one race you could have anything go wrong.
12:55
You can miss the setup by by this much you know in your
12:59
championships decided by that. Now, with that being said, that
13:04
falls in line with every other major, major sport, right?
13:08
That's exactly the way that all all the other major sports are.
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BNFLNB A/B, it's not, you know, you what you've done during the
13:17
season ranks you for the playoffs, right?
13:22
And if you look at it that way, if we want to be like all the
13:26
other sports, then you, you know you're dead nuts, right?
13:30
In line with everybody. But in our sport, you know, for
13:34
decades it wasn't like that. It was a year long thing.
13:37
We didn't have playoffs and you know a lot of times the
13:39
championships were determined way before we got to Atlanta the
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last race. And you know, I I do have a firm
13:46
believer that with the playoff format definitely, definitely
13:51
gives us more interest. It gives more, creates more
13:54
internship, it's more drama. Everything about it is good to
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me except for that last Friggin race, you know.
14:01
And that's just the that's just the purest to be for our sport.
14:04
You know, because you know, been in the sport when it wasn't like
14:08
that and watching it do what it's doing now.
14:10
And you got to remember too, dude, I mean we're we're trying
14:13
to go after fans. We're we're trying to go after
14:16
younger fans and and you know the truth be told.
14:19
And I can't tell you what all's been said and discussed in the
14:22
hierarchy in Daytona Beach or Charlotte or NASCAR, but to go
14:27
after these fans. How do we do that?
14:29
You know you got the five minute fans down that used not to be.
14:32
I mean we've got listen dude, when racing was exploding and
14:37
and all through the 90s, you know you had 25 inch wide
14:43
television screens, you know, and to go to the race or
14:47
whatever was a big deal. To go to a ball game was a big
14:50
deal. And down everybody's got 10 foot
14:52
wide screens. It's easy to set back.
14:54
Everybody's attention spans down what it used to be.
14:57
So what do we have to do? And there are people a lot
15:00
smarter than me, I think, working on this stuff with the
15:03
hierarchy of DASCAR, and I think the playoff thing just Feed just
15:07
feeds into what they're trying to accomplish.
15:11
But again, always remember this, Charlie.
15:12
Always remember, the thing about our sport that keeps it pure is
15:16
when you strap into that race car from the first time Edsel
15:19
Ford got in his car in 1910, right through through Fireball
15:23
Roberts, through Dale Earnhardt, now through Denny Amblin.
15:26
When you strap in that car and they drop the green flag, that
15:30
part remains pure. You cannot change that.
15:32
That part remains pure. You're doing your best to go
15:35
fast as you can possibly go every week, every lap, and beat
15:38
the guy in front of you. So that that's the part to me
15:41
that I really say. I know that always keep our
15:44
sport, our sport relevant. And to me, some of these
15:48
arguments. So, so Kenny and I, we were
15:50
talking yesterday and I just looked this up.
15:53
I was. I was surprised at how close
15:55
Rusty Wallace and Denny Hamlin's career stats are.
15:59
Obviously Rusty has the championship, Denny doesn't, but
16:02
I'll just read them for you real quick.
16:03
So, so Denny, 658 races, he's got 54 wins, 343 top tens, 41
16:12
polls. Rusty 706 races.
16:15
So 48 more races, but 55 wins, 349 top tens, 36 polls.
16:22
So if you look at wins, top 10s polls, they're almost the same.
16:27
Obviously Rusty has the championship.
16:29
I hope Denny wins it this year. I'm rooting for Denny.
16:32
But I do think this is fun kind of bar room talk.
16:35
It's hard to compare errors. Any sport I can say, oh, Babe
16:37
Ruth versus whoever. Albert Pujols.
16:40
Aaron Judge. So for you, how would you?
16:43
Compare. Right there, your era, how would
16:45
you compare a Rusty Wallace versus a Denny Hamlin when you
16:48
when you look at those stats, but you also know both drivers?
16:51
Well I think the style the style I I go back a little bit again
16:57
than what I said before Denny started out or was from Virginia
17:01
racing these short tracks you know and where he learned his
17:05
craft and his trade real similar to Rusty starting out with ASA.
17:10
The short tracks with so many of the guys did that and as we go
17:13
along now we're getting away from that a little bit the guys
17:16
but but Denny's trade was was learned the exact same way
17:20
Rusty's was different parts of the country but still very good
17:24
race car drivers or that Rusty had to compete against.
17:27
So that part you know it, it kind of, I don't know, it's kind
17:32
of hard to describe Charlie. It's like it's it's your
17:35
experiences, it's your experience of of driving where
17:39
you're at, where you started young in your career, the type
17:42
of drivers you're racing against, the style of driving
17:44
that that you crafted, you know. And it's really not surprising
17:49
in a way. It's not surprising their, their
17:51
stats are so equal because they were, they were taught in their
17:55
experience level when they came up through what was kind of
17:59
real, real similar. So they learn to kind of race
18:02
the same. Rusty's was always in good
18:05
equipment cup, Denny's been in good equipment with cup.
18:08
I mean really what what you're looking at in Cup with those two
18:11
guys is, is their talent level, even though their experience
18:15
level coming up is the same, their teams are both very good
18:18
race teams and their talent level's pretty close, right.
18:21
And that's that's really the way you got to look at that.
18:24
And you know, some of the guys come along now, don't you know
18:29
they're not going through that early experience of this is how
18:34
I learned how to, this is how I'm racing, this is how I
18:37
learned how to race the racist guy.
18:39
Do I fight him? You know what I mean?
18:41
How do I do this? The wreck cars, you know, now
18:43
the guy, it seems like a lot of the guys nowadays are, are
18:47
learning their basic craft on the big stage, right?
18:54
And that what that does though, that opens them up for bonehead
18:58
booze at boat. It opens them up for criticisms,
19:01
right? It opens them up for coming
19:04
across as immature. There's a lot of things that go
19:08
on when you're young that you go through that these guys are
19:12
going through in front of millions of people.
19:15
And to me it, it's it's not fair to those guys, right, on one
19:19
hand. But the other hand I'm looking
19:21
at the guy who's 21 years old, he's baking millions.
19:23
And I look, when I was 21 year old, you know, I was basically
19:27
eight or nine years away from anybody even talking to me about
19:31
the possibility of getting in a Cup car because I was too young.
19:34
So you had to spend the next 10 years learning your trade and
19:38
mastering your craft and learning what it meant to pick a
19:41
fight with somebody or pay back or learning how to deal with the
19:44
media, you know, learning this, this reporter you can trust.
19:47
That reporter you can't trust, right.
19:49
Went through all that. So the time you got the Cup, you
19:51
were set. These guys, now, you know,
19:54
they're learning it in front of everybody and it it creates
19:57
issues, creates problems. I got off on a taget, but
20:00
anyhow, that's the way I see it. I love it.
20:03
All right, Another big topic was, whatever you want to call
20:07
it, aero blocking, dirty air, mirror driving.
20:11
And then the last few days there's been this discussion on
20:14
social media about what really are those things and are they
20:18
different now Chris Gamehart, who is Denny Hamlin's crew chief
20:21
was, was basically talking about this is because of this car, he
20:26
said. You know, dirty air has always
20:27
been around back in the day but but drivers maybe from your era
20:31
had to focus on different things.
20:33
Kyle Busch and his media availability this past weekend,
20:36
he said look this next Gen. car, it is just so much better as a
20:40
defensive weapon than it is an offensive weapon.
20:44
So. So what do you think about just
20:46
this this whole storyline of Aero blocking dirty air?
20:50
I mean, did you guys talk about these things when you're
20:52
driving? Did you just use different
20:55
terminology or is it more about this next Gen. car you think?
20:58
Let me give you some numbers, Charlie.
21:01
In 91, my first full time Cup year, right.
21:07
I'd ran Cup races since 88 a little bit, but but first, big
21:09
time deal. Giggle scope, the aerodynamics.
21:14
If you had a car that blue, we call it blue, right?
21:18
You goes to you go and went on and you blow it.
21:20
If it produced 200 lbs of total downforce, you guys are pretty
21:24
damn good Race car. OK, that was in 91 in 96 when we
21:31
switched to Pontiac bodies and we had Hooters as a sponsor.
21:37
Fat back Mcswain and Kevin Hammond, They were all about
21:40
team crew chiefs. They built the car, they built
21:42
the Pontiac. He did fat back, did some of his
21:44
aerodynamic trick magic to it. We blew that car.
21:48
It blew 503. That was a magic in 96.
21:51
That was a magic #503 total pounds of downforce.
21:56
Right when I got out of the sport and retired in O one or
22:00
O2, 1200 was the number that they were working on.
22:06
And then we go to the gin, whatever car it was.
22:11
I mean I started hearing numbers up before they made this new car
22:14
the next year, up before that, I started hearing numbers well
22:17
over 2000 lbs of downforce. OK.
22:20
So you look at the look at that number and and to give the fans
22:24
a perspective, the Indycars, they dial those wings in what
22:28
the car weighed 2500 lbs. They put like 3500 lbs of
22:32
downforce. And what that means to the fans
22:34
is you send that IndyCar down a tunnel and let him turn, or let
22:39
him turn and go up on the upside of the tunnel.
22:42
He could run on that tunnel upside down and it'd be stuck
22:46
upside down to the tunnel because the downforce is
22:50
sticking to keeping it stuck. That's what downforce means.
22:52
Or that's that's how it works. So when I came in and we were
22:56
running, you would run a guy down and you you would get to
22:59
him and it really didn't upset the car.
23:02
It would be muffled, you know the the car would jerk around a
23:05
little bit and it'd be muffled, but you didn't really lose.
23:09
You didn't really lose a lot of balance in the car.
23:12
So Fast forward 10 years to 2002 thousand and one my last couple
23:17
years in sport. You run somebody down and you
23:19
get to him, you would completely lose, lose a nose because you,
23:23
you quit. Your mechanical grip is what it
23:26
is. But when you got downforce, baby
23:28
that that air is free, I mean it's free.
23:30
It's free handling. So you work to let the air push
23:34
the car down on the racetrack. And this was really before a lot
23:37
of the guys figured out the side force that they'd come up with.
23:41
But anyhow, the car would be stuck so good, and you'd run up
23:44
to a guy and the air off his car.
23:47
It created a vacuum on the front of your car, all right, So all
23:51
of a sudden, if you've got 1000 lbs of downforce, see, you've
23:54
got 500 on the front. When you get to that car in
23:57
front of you, that air comes off that car, you lose it on your
24:00
nose. All of a sudden you've lost 500
24:03
lbs of downforce on the front of your car.
24:05
Well, hell, you can't steer it, you can't turn it, you can't
24:07
drive it, you can't, you can't do anything with it.
24:11
Well, as this was transitioning at one time the drivers we we
24:15
started noticing this, I don't know, mid to late.
24:18
I don't like 9798. I forget what year it was.
24:22
Well, maybe it was before that we started noticed it maybe the
24:25
mid 90s and the guys, everybody started fussing about it a
24:29
little bit, right? Because we had never encountered
24:31
this in 50 years of NASCAR. The drivers had so NASCAR
24:36
decided they would do A5 and five rule.
24:38
What that meant was we have to run the front valence 5 inches
24:42
off the ground. That I forget what we were.
24:44
I think we were three inches. You go through the tech you your
24:48
valence or front bumper valence area a minimum of three inches
24:51
and we had a big spoiler on the back so they went to five and
24:54
five. It's called you raise the front
24:56
valence up to 5 inches. You bake a spoiler in the back,
24:59
a small 5 inch spoiler, and I can't remember how long we did
25:04
that. Maybe one or two races because
25:06
you'd go out there on the racetrack.
25:08
It was like driving the cars. When I first started, you had no
25:11
downforce and the guys had gotten really used and
25:13
accustomed to the cars being stuck.
25:15
And they're pretty good with this comfortable downforce.
25:18
Well, we did this five and five deals and you thought you'd have
25:21
thought we'd have dropped the nuclear bomb in the garage.
25:23
And drivers just, I mean, they scream bloody murder, right?
25:27
Go in and turn. They couldn't drive it.
25:29
Wouldn't turn, wouldn't you? Couldn't get any gas.
25:32
It wouldn't stick it. I'm like, I kind of liked it
25:34
because I'm like, well this is the feeling that I first got,
25:36
the first time I got in a cup car right.
25:39
First time I got in a cup car is Bristol in 88 driving for Buddy
25:42
Baker. And I go Joey Muckles recruit
25:45
chief. And I go out there and I get in
25:47
the gas and I'm used to to the Bush Grand National engine and I
25:50
get I get wide open and buddy's car and it's AV 8 lot more
25:53
horsepower. It sets me back in the seat and
25:56
I'm like oh this reminds me of the big block modifieds that I
25:58
used to race on dirt. Anyhow, go down straight away
26:01
with all this horsepower, go in the turn and turn the steering
26:03
wheel and it doesn't do anything.
26:05
I go through the turn and and the the steering wheels just, I
26:08
mean like the front tires aren't gripping.
26:10
Then when I get in the gas, right, I got to turn the
26:13
steering wheel back because it it wants to break the rear end
26:16
loose. And I feathered the gas and I'm
26:18
doing all this. I run probably 7 or 8 laps like
26:23
this, right. I come down Pit Rd. and to stop
26:26
Joey Knuckles takes the winning that down.
26:28
He says, what do you think, bub? That's what he called me.
26:30
Bub. We think bub.
26:31
I said, Joey, I don't know. And if that's the first time
26:34
I've ever been in a cup car, I don't know anything anything
26:37
about these things I said. But I'm going to be honest with
26:39
you dude. This is the worst handle damn
26:41
thing I've I've ever driven in. He said, really?
26:44
I said, yeah, you know, what's it do?
26:45
I said when you go to turn, turn the wheel and don't do anything,
26:47
won't turn. I said that when you get the
26:49
gas, it won't hook up, all right?
26:51
You spend the tires and all this crap, you got to fight it, he
26:54
said. What would you do to fix it?
26:56
I said, dude, I don't, I don't even know where to start.
26:58
This thing is so screwed up, I don't know where to start.
27:02
And he pulled out a piece of paper.
27:03
He says, look at this, that's what's that.
27:04
He says you're the fourth fastest car.
27:06
I said what? He said you're the fourth
27:08
fastest car. Look at all these times.
27:10
I'm like, well, hell, all right. I guess that's the way you got
27:15
to drive these cars, right? He said, welcome to Big Time
27:18
Corporation, Rick. That's it.
27:20
All right, All right. So anyhow, my point being, when
27:23
they did that five and five rule, which would be 10 years
27:25
later, after that, everybody screamed bloody murder and they
27:28
took they, they, they they took it away.
27:30
They went back to where we were. And we've been on this, lose the
27:33
nose ever since. I mean, I I wish we'd have
27:36
stayed with the five and five a while just to see if you got the
27:40
driver settled down. You know quit bitching if we
27:43
could have, if we could have made it work.
27:45
But you know that what they're doing now I mean the the the new
27:51
car and and what they're saying and the conversations I've had
27:56
it it evidently it throws out such.
28:00
How can I say this? An air vacuum or air turbulence
28:05
must be a combination that it truly, truly, truly just kills
28:09
the car behind it and it and it evidently stopped just the nose.
28:12
It must be both. It must just totally mess up the
28:16
the total on the car. Probably the side force too.
28:19
And to use the aerodynamics as a defensive tool, you know, that's
28:24
just another thing in your arsenal.
28:26
I mean that right now that's what they've got and that's the
28:29
way it is. So you bits about it all you
28:32
want to, but they're going to drop the green flag Sunday,
28:35
right? And you've got that tool for you
28:38
at at your disposal. So you're going to have to use
28:40
it. I mean, you can gripe all you
28:41
want to, but it's there and you're going to have to use it.
28:46
So how about this though, because you're you're mentioned
28:48
other sports. Earlier.
28:50
And I think it's it's fair to say that most professional
28:53
sports are doing what they can and changing rules to get it,
28:57
get it to be more offensive. And let's be real, we're we're
29:00
talking about finding fans. Fans want offense.
29:04
In NASCAR that would be passing. So do you think just for the the
29:08
viewability and the popularity of the sport is, is it a good
29:12
thing that this car is more defensive whereas look, football
29:16
you can't touch a quarterback Now you know that they want
29:19
every game to be 4235. I mean baseball, whatever it is,
29:23
basketball scoring. Do you think the fact that this
29:26
is a defensive tool is, is that detracting people, maybe from
29:30
watching a sport where they want to see passing, passing,
29:32
passing? You know, the fans, they don't
29:34
know. They don't know it's got fuel
29:36
injection. They don't know it's got a
29:37
diffuser on the bottom. They don't, they don't know any
29:39
of this stuff. And really the majority,
29:42
especially the new ones trying to get, they don't give a crap.
29:44
You know what I mean? All they're looking at is the
29:46
cars. You know, look at the cars on
29:48
the racetrack. It's like I'll give you, I'll
29:51
give you a quick story. We would go to Daytona years ago
29:55
and and and tested in January, February.
29:58
We go down there for three or four days at a time, come back,
30:00
cut the bodies off these cars, go back inevitably.
30:04
It seemed like every year you go down there, somebody had an
30:06
advantage, whether it be a A-Team or a manufacturer.
30:10
And by the third day you come in as a driver, you come in and the
30:14
guys were cutting spoilers or adding to the spoiler.
30:18
I'm like, what's going on? Got a call from the top.
30:21
What that meant was Bill Francis sat there for two days and
30:24
watched this particular manufacturer dominate.
30:27
Right. And he called down and we got to
30:29
slow these cars down, right. So we're down in one year and I
30:32
think, I think it was with the Taurus, I'm not sure.
30:35
But anyhow, our group was quick. I mean our, you know, I mean, it
30:38
must have been the Ford Taurus, maybe, but we were hands heads
30:42
above everybody. I come in the third day, they're
30:44
adding spoiler to my race cars. What are you doing?
30:46
Got the call from the top. Later on that day, Bill walks
30:50
by, right? Bill, Junior France and I
30:52
hollered and say, Bill come here and I went over to him.
30:55
I said, why is it every time we come down here to your racetrack
30:58
you're always messing with us? I had these spoilers and stuff
31:01
and I'll never forget Bill. He took and put his arm around
31:04
my shoulder and he pointed up at the racetrack in the
31:06
grandstands. He said, Rick, as long as I keep
31:09
you guys side by side, he did. All the rest of the stuff takes
31:13
care of itself. Everything takes care of itself
31:17
as long as I keep you side to side.
31:18
And that always stuck with me right and always stuck with me.
31:22
And that is what NASCAR is trying to do, along with other
31:26
things that cost and all that make it in a modern car.
31:29
The the ultimate goal is to keep these cars side to side.
31:32
That's Bill. That was Bill Franklin was right
31:34
out of his mouth to me, right. And he told me the way he looked
31:38
at our sport. I don't care about all this
31:40
other crap. I just want these cars side to
31:41
side. Everything else takes care of
31:43
itself. That means the fans come.
31:46
TV numbers are big media covers. Everybody's happy.
31:49
Fans are happy. That is the basic thing that
31:53
they try to do right. And right now this car is not
31:58
letting them do that. It's about all and a half.
31:59
It's good. You know the short tracks, you
32:01
know they're having trouble on the speedways.
32:03
Evidently we're we're half throttling, saving gas.
32:06
So you know I heard Elton saw you the other day talking about
32:10
it. They're they're they're looking,
32:11
they're working, they're working with the tires, right.
32:14
They're going to new. I think they're going to
32:15
Wilkesboro. Now Goodyear is with the tire
32:17
shaking down the tire trying, trying a bunch of different
32:20
stuff and that all comes from the Bristol race when we had the
32:24
rain tire and their tires were wearing out 35 laps and it made
32:28
it very bad. It was cool as hell to watch
32:30
that race. It was very interesting to watch
32:32
it. Now the drivers, the crew chiefs
32:34
hated it but bad it made for it made for interest in TV.
32:38
Let's say that so that you know all the stuff.
32:41
It it comes down to what do we do to have these cars close on
32:46
the racetrack and being able to pass in side to side.
32:49
And with the technology that's out there Charlie and the the
32:52
sports that everybody has the experience very, very, very hard
32:57
to get that attained. But that's what they're working
32:59
towards and I feel like at some point we'll finally get
33:02
something that works. And you mentioned earlier
33:06
Pontiac, when I first really got into NASCAR was O six O 7.
33:10
I did ATV job that was basically Michigan International Speedway
33:13
was in our market. They had two Cup races at the
33:15
time. So Dodge was was in at the time.
33:19
You're hearing maybe Honda could come into the fold in the next
33:22
several years, but now you have 3 manufacturers obviously with
33:26
Toyota, Chevy, Ford right now. Ford as you know Ford doesn't
33:30
have a win through 11 races. They have one guy, Ryan Blaney
33:34
in the top ten, he's 7 now. They seem to figure it out.
33:37
The last couple years they've won, they swept last year and
33:40
then Logano won the year before, obviously Blaney last year.
33:44
So I guess my my big picture question is what do you think is
33:48
happening with Ford? But also do you think NASCAR
33:51
benefits more if there are more manufacturers like in the day
33:55
you're talking about Pontiac or Dodge and there isn't just
33:58
three. What do you think?
33:59
Yeah, definitely. You know, when I came in, we
34:03
had, I was with Oldsmobile, I mean, General Motors said
34:06
Oldsmobile, They had Pontiac at Chevrolet.
34:08
So there's three of the General Motors in each.
34:11
Each division was like being like I was with with Oldsmobile.
34:16
Well I might as well have been with Ford as far as the way they
34:19
felt about out running their General Motors counterparts
34:23
Pontiac and Chevrolet. It was really that way you know
34:26
and even when I was with Pontiac, you know Oldsmobile was
34:30
gone at that time. But the Pontiac thing was all
34:32
about out running Fords, but it's all about out running
34:34
Chevrolets. It was weird.
34:36
It was the same umbrella, but these guys were like fierce
34:39
competitors with one another, right?
34:41
And I will say this, the manufacturers, the manufacturers
34:46
take this thing very, very, very seriously.
34:48
They, I mean not being involved with and I was with Ford, I was
34:52
with General Motors, Oldsmobile, even with Buick, right.
34:55
And Chevrolet and these guys it's again, it's not play time
34:59
with these guys. They take it very, very
35:01
seriously. And if you if you, I mean that's
35:04
why you go to Michigan. So much emphasis was put on
35:07
Michigan in my day because you're right there at Detroit.
35:10
Right. And for some reason Ford's
35:12
always won't seem like they always dominated up there.
35:15
And that was always a sore point with the General Motors deal and
35:18
I'm sure with Chrysler also. But it's anything in races
35:25
racing you're going to have epic flows.
35:27
You go high points, low points. You know you go through the good
35:29
stuff, the bad stuff, the deal. Ford right now, you know,
35:33
they're just, they're just, they're just not running as good
35:36
as they need to be. I mean, he might as well face
35:38
facts why that is. You know, if I could answer
35:42
that, then I can make a call right down forward to give me 10
35:45
million bucks because I can answer it.
35:46
Tell them why they're not running good.
35:48
It's just it's not that easy. Our sport has gotten so infinite
35:52
with the setups and the everything they do is just our
35:55
finite. Rather it's just so you know
35:58
we're we're talking, we use a a tape measure to measure the
36:01
height of the car within a 8th or 16th of an inch or 8th of an
36:04
inch with a tape measure. Right now they got dial calibers
36:07
measured within 30 thousandths, 20 thousandths of an inch with
36:11
ride heights and you know you get off 30 thousandths.
36:16
You take a lead lap car and it's a lap down car, right?
36:19
It's just, it's just, it's really it's it's got so frigging
36:24
technical and weird, you know that they, they they with the
36:27
new car, they took all the tools away.
36:30
They took all the pieces, right? I mean all these race teams
36:33
making all these widgets and gidgets and put on these cars
36:36
and spending millions of dollars in trying to make the next best
36:40
thing where they cut all that out, right?
36:43
So now you got to buy these parts, but on north.
36:44
So now what do you do? You take this part that you
36:47
can't fool with anymore. That's what everybody runs Well,
36:50
how could I make this better? We can't make it better.
36:54
But there's an adjustment, right?
36:56
You make a little bit, you make a little adjustment.
36:58
That used to be 1/4 of an inch adjustment.
37:00
Now you're making a 20 thousandths of an inch
37:03
adjustment and and you know if you get off on something and
37:07
we've seen it, you know, we've seen with everybody, you chase
37:10
got hurt last year, right? But and when he came back he
37:14
was, you know, he didn't run good all year.
37:16
Well, people were were talking about Chase is not back in his
37:21
leg, is not healed, and on and on and on.
37:24
No, that's bull crap Chase. If you noticed right before that
37:27
that team wasn't running that well, then he got hurt and never
37:30
got it back. And he spent all of last year
37:33
trying to figure that out. And this year if you listen to
37:35
his comments, you hear what's going on.
37:37
You know, you hear about the small increments they're making
37:40
to making this car better and make it feel the way he needs it
37:43
to feel. And that stuff it don't.
37:45
It just doesn't. It doesn't happen by chance
37:47
anymore, Charlie. I mean, this stuff is engineered
37:50
to good gosh, it would drive me nuts.
37:53
It would drive me nuts as a driver right now trying to be
37:56
there because I was always so involved with my chassis, you
37:59
know, that's that's the way I taught myself and everything
38:02
about my cars. I knew about cars inside and
38:04
out. You know, I could build anything
38:06
on that car. Heck, I could build the motors.
38:07
I used to do it and everything about the chassis and the
38:10
geometry and some of the some of the aerial stuff I wasn't as
38:15
good at or didn't know about. But today's deal would drive me
38:19
crazy trying to be a driver and and and being on top of my
38:23
chassis. OK.
38:25
So we're going to, we're going to create some segments.
38:28
I think last week you said what what's pissing Rick off today or
38:32
this week we're going to do, we're going to do Story of the
38:34
Week also because of course you have great racing stories.
38:37
Let's start with what's what's pissing you off, right?
38:40
Well we'll go back to last week and that our our our racing.
38:47
You know we have raced since when did this sport start in the
38:50
40s whenever it was the Streamline Diner in Daytona
38:54
which they remodeled that thing by the way if you're ever down
38:56
there you need to stop and look Streamline Diner like it's been
38:58
a few million and re redesign that thing.
39:00
But anyhow, we always went to Daytona and we raced, we went to
39:05
Darlington and we raced. You turn on the television and
39:07
man they're racing. Earnhardt and Gordon are racing.
39:10
You know, they wrecked each other in the last lap of that
39:12
race. You know, that's what I was
39:15
raised on. That's all I've ever heard.
39:18
And all of a sudden it's not racing anymore.
39:21
It's a frigging product. It's a frigging product,
39:24
Charlie. OK, I get it.
39:26
I I I totally get it. I understand the marketing side.
39:30
I know what where they're coming from.
39:32
I know what they're saying. But to me, it's racing.
39:37
It's not a product that we talk about.
39:40
The product is racing, all right?
39:43
Or racing is the product however you want to look at it.
39:46
I get it goes back to maybe when we go to Indy the first time and
39:54
all the hype and the big deal going on to the Indy and I I get
39:57
up there that week and I'm, I open up the Indy store and I'm
39:59
reading articles and I'm reading our drivers quotes and I'm like,
40:03
who are these guys? They're giving quotes.
40:06
It's like wine and cheese quotes.
40:08
It's like, dude, I know you. I know you very well.
40:13
Don't what? What?
40:15
What are you doing? What are you talking about?
40:17
You're not being yourself, right?
40:19
Well, that that pissed me off. That and I got a whole long
40:22
story about that. When Indy comes up, we'll talk
40:24
about Indy and all that stuff. Remind me to talk about that.
40:27
But the product is the racing and racing is what sold our
40:34
sport. And what do you you follow what
40:38
I'm saying, Charlie, let's interact on this a little bit.
40:42
100% also a word. I don't know if you like this
40:44
word or not but I've heard this recently.
40:46
This gets back and I said this last week about people created
40:50
this thing skill set when you can just say skills.
40:53
I I watch every NASCAR media availability on Saturdays and
40:57
Sundays and a a term I'm really starting to hear is racecraft.
41:01
Racecraft. Is that a word you guys used in
41:03
your era? No.
41:04
No, no, not era. He's a wheel band or he's not
41:10
OK, you got racecraft or you don't right.
41:14
He's a goodwill man. Bad will man, mediocre will man.
41:18
Well this guy's got mediocre racecraft he's a real good
41:21
racecraft and the other one and and the other word.
41:24
It doesn't bothers me as doesn't bother me as much but it's still
41:27
bothers me is pace right. It's not speed.
41:31
It's pace and I think junior's one junior I think is the one
41:33
that's kind of coined that deal. He loves to use that freight
41:36
pace. That freight pace and but dude
41:39
it's it's yeah to to marketing one O 1 guys up in Manhattan on
41:45
the third floor. Yeah it's a product we're
41:47
producing but it's not it's racing.
41:50
It's racing labeled as racing keep.
41:53
You know some of the things we do like our playoffs, right.
41:57
We're trying to mirror other sports, right.
42:00
And I and I get that and I understand what they're doing.
42:02
But man to say racing's a product.
42:05
No I don't like it. I do not like it.
42:09
All right. How about Rich, Story of the
42:11
week. I know you have a ton.
42:12
What? What do you got for us today?
42:13
You know, we raced Dover this past week and I got, I got to
42:16
thinking about my, my, my good friend Davey Allison, right.
42:25
We were at Dover one time. This is sometime in the 80s and
42:28
the Bush Grand National cars had to park up on the dog track,
42:32
which is a sad, the old dirty place.
42:34
You're laid around in the sand, right?
42:36
Working on these cars, they didn't have the Bush, they
42:38
didn't have the separate rods like they do now in Turn 4.
42:41
So anyhow, we run the race that Saturday and I forget how we
42:47
did. But anyhow, I come back, I'm up
42:49
there and I get my car loaded and all that and I go down
42:52
through there. I'm just getting ready to leave.
42:53
And I see David been in a wreck and his car was tore all to
42:56
pieces and Davey had his car there.
42:58
It's a trailer. And so tore up, he couldn't get
43:00
the thing loaded and he was under, He was under the car.
43:03
They had it jacked up. He was under and they had it
43:05
torched. So I just stopped got out and I
43:07
got under there with it right. And we started cutting and
43:10
beating and you know finally got his old bucket of boats loaded
43:13
up. All right.
43:14
So that was that was really my first time of of interacted with
43:21
Davey All right. So over over time we we kind of
43:24
became good pretty good buddies. We go to New Hampshire whatever
43:31
year it was and he and I are walking out of the garage there
43:35
together going down pit Rd. for driving or no, we've already
43:39
done it. We're going to get in a race
43:41
cars and we're walking along and they start playing music and he
43:46
stops and he grabs me Stop dummy what?
43:49
Dash lamp. And I said that's Canadian dash
43:51
lamp. He's don't battered stop and you
43:53
respect it. That's all right.
43:56
So we stood there Then they did dash laugh and went on and got
43:59
to my car. We shook hands.
44:00
Good luck, Rick. All right, David.
44:02
Good luck, buddy. See you next week.
44:03
All right. I get in my car, all right, get
44:07
the window net up. All of a sudden a official comes
44:10
and looks in it through the net at me, says Rick.
44:12
I said, yeah, got emergency phone call from you from home.
44:15
I was like, what's that? He said, The call said, your
44:18
house is on fire. I'm like, OK, I'm sitting there
44:23
and I'm like, what I'm going to do?
44:25
My house is on fire, right. So anyhow, we run the race and
44:31
come home. That night we had stayed in a
44:32
motel. That fire had been in the
44:34
kitchen. My dad had been there watering
44:36
the shrubs and it blew out a window.
44:38
And you know the fire department, local fire
44:40
department came. I mean I mean these guys, the
44:43
story goes two of them come on a four Wheeler, one of them come
44:46
on a horse, right? But the Firehouse is only like
44:49
only like 1/4 of a mile down the road.
44:51
But these guys on Sundays they would ride horses and ride 4
44:54
Wheelers and stuff. But anyhow they got the fire
44:56
knocked out. So we go in there Monday, we
44:59
stayed at a motel that night. We go there Monday morning and
45:01
of course the the the kitchen's gutted and a lot of the stuff in
45:04
the house is heat melted and it's really a mess.
45:09
And sometime I get a phone call and they tell me Davey had
45:14
wrecked his helicopter in Talladega and didn't know
45:19
anything more about it. So I spent that evening and that
45:22
night trying to get more information and finally, finally
45:26
got through to somebody that evening and they said, you know,
45:28
we're not sure but they're being real quiet, but we don't think
45:32
it's good. So the next morning we go into
45:35
the house and if fire Marshall's there, the insurance adjuster's
45:41
there and we're walking through and basically everything in the
45:45
house has to be replaced or be rebuilt rebuilt.
45:48
And the insurance adjuster and me start talking about like the
45:52
value of the TV, right or the value of electronics and really
45:58
we start getting antagonistic with each other because he's
46:00
trying to beat me down and I'm starting to get pissed off.
46:03
And this is before come find out we had I had a replacement cost
46:08
on my insurance. So everybody out there if you've
46:10
got a whole mortgage or insurance make sure you've got
46:13
replacement cost. It doesn't cost.
46:15
I think it's like $35 a year and you don't have to argue if you
46:18
lose your stuff that if you got $1000 TV when you buy it they
46:21
they replace it with a a $1500 TV if it's saved like kind
46:25
right. So that's that's for you fans to
46:27
know this just do it. If you don't check it check it.
46:30
So anyhow anyhow we're we're we're kind of starting to get
46:34
argument of and the and the the fire Marshall's trying to figure
46:38
out what started the fire and all this is going on.
46:40
I'm mad. Anyhow I get a phone call.
46:43
Hey Rick. Yeah.
46:44
We lost Dave. What?
46:46
We lost Dave this morning like OK, I hang a phone up.
46:50
I stand there, you know, for a little bit.
46:53
I look around at that agent and that fire Marshall and sharing
46:57
my wife's with me. I said, let me tell you I got
46:58
something. I said I don't have a problem in
47:02
the world. Y'all do whatever y'all want to
47:04
do. Just let me know when you're
47:06
finished. I said come on Sherry.
47:08
And I walked out the door right? And never once thought about the
47:11
value of that television or or the hardship that my burnt house
47:16
has put me and my family through.
47:18
It just, you know it. Never.
47:20
Never never occurred to me again they had a problem but that was
47:24
a that was a sad sad day for me you know but he was such a good
47:29
guy man. This is a good guy and A and A
47:31
and a talent taken from our sport that would have done so
47:35
much you know and and I mean we can name these things you name
47:39
Quickie Robin Roses similar some of these all of these guys but
47:43
you know when we lost a lot of friends during the during the
47:46
during the that time area and we'll talk about that is this as
47:50
this podcast goes forward but that was I don't know Dover made
47:54
me think of that with Dave the first time I met with him we
47:56
just raced over so that was kind of my deal with him.
48:00
Yeah, and I don't know a ton about Davey, but just looking at
48:03
his stats, I mean, nineteen wins in 191 Cup races, so he's
48:08
winning 10% of the time, 92 top 10s.
48:11
He's essentially a top ten in half his races and he finished
48:15
third in 91 and 92. Was this a guy that if he didn't
48:18
tragically pass, was this the guy who's going to win
48:21
championships, you think? And I mean, that would have been
48:23
another guy right there with Earnhardt and Gordon and and
48:27
Rusty in in that mid 90s era. He would have been.
48:31
He would have been the next one. He would have been big, you
48:34
know, 'cause I mean, I knew Davey.
48:35
I knew his mindset. I knew his skill set.
48:38
You know he had the right mindset, the toughness and it
48:41
come from the racing he did in Arca and and up there on the on
48:45
the Dover, you know, underneath the car with the torch, beating
48:48
the damn thing back together, trying to get it loaded up on
48:50
the trailer. It gives you it's a mindset.
48:52
As a racer you have right. If you have that mindset and
48:55
then you have God-given talent, right you, you you're going to
48:59
be good. And Davey was one of those guys.
49:02
He was just, you know, I knew him.
49:03
I knew his mindset and I knew how good he was.
49:06
And long as he stayed in good equipment he was, he was going
49:08
to be a champion. He's going to be a multiple
49:11
winner. You know, he'd be, he'd be one
49:13
of the guys we referenced, you know?
49:16
So we have a Kansas coming up and I think it's also shows
49:20
people you know how new this track is because you're telling
49:22
me before we started this that you didn't really run it Kansas,
49:25
right, It it came along at the end of your career.
49:27
Right. Yeah.
49:28
I remember going out there and what I remember about that track
49:32
was the track itself in the parking area.
49:35
You know when we flew in, you got the, you got the you, you
49:38
got the track, Yeah. Then outside the track you got
49:42
these circles. They keep getting bigger and
49:44
bigger and bigger and bigger and it's parking the way they did.
49:49
The parking at this track always intrigued me.
49:51
You know, that's really the only thing that intrigued me.
49:53
But it is a Cabela's right there that that was a big deal but it
49:59
was good for our sport because it was in a market that we
50:02
weren't in. You know I mean and and it's
50:04
still good for our sport because it it catches, gosh it catches
50:09
so many of our Midwest people that that you know haven't and
50:12
up to that point been able to go to a race in a day trip without
50:17
have to spend 1000 bucks in motels and stuff.
50:19
So you know it just it it is one of those that we went to when we
50:24
went to it, it made sense to me. You know some of the tracks we
50:28
went to over the years and they talk about going into that
50:30
market. In my mind it just didn't really
50:34
make a lot of sense. Totally.
50:36
I understood where they're coming from, but I guess I
50:39
disagreed a little bit. But the Chicago you know forcing
50:47
forcing forcing on Ontario Fontana on us, OK forcing those
50:55
instead of letting that thing. I don't know that you know
51:00
you're try again you're trying to get those marks.
51:02
But it just it just for some reason it just didn't make sense
51:05
to me. Midwest made sense to me for our
51:08
fan base. I think.
51:10
I think what we're trying to do, you're trying to force people
51:15
into being fans instead of letting it happen organically.
51:18
OK, all right. We, you know these fans are
51:21
crying for we've got to build a racetrack here.
51:25
We've got to do that, you know, look at our numbers, look at our
51:27
TV numbers, look at whatever, however, whatever data they use,
51:32
man, right here in in in Fontana, we've got to have a
51:36
racetrack for these fans. They're calling for it the same
51:39
way in Chicago. I don't think that was the case.
51:42
I think we'll build the track and then the people have become
51:45
interested, right? The Kansas deal to me was the
51:49
fans are already interested. We got to have a track there,
51:51
right? Because so much of our our
51:54
explosion of our growth and we'll get into this more in our
51:57
podcast, what what the growth was through the nineties, 80s
52:01
and 90s. What caused it, what caused it
52:03
to explode. Because I I witnessed all this.
52:05
We'll talk about why it didn't, you know quite it kind of
52:08
started going down. We'll we'll get into all that
52:10
stuff. But you know, the explosion that
52:16
happened to our sport was all organically, you know, it wasn't
52:20
forced. It just, it just happened and
52:22
we'll dive into those reasons at some point.
52:25
But you know, to to me, Kansas just makes sense.
52:30
We got fans. We got to give them a race.
52:32
OK, so I saw the other day you went to to a Braves game.
52:35
Obviously you got the Braves hat on your son works for the
52:38
Braves. I'm curious though, for for you
52:40
now, whether it's watching sports and going to the event or
52:45
on TVI mean are you are you watching NFL?
52:48
MLB? Are you a guy?
52:49
Are you into some of these Netflix documentaries?
52:52
Like my wife is obsessed with watching these murder mystery
52:54
documentaries. It's all she wants to watch now.
52:57
So what? What about you?
52:59
I follow all the sports. I don't follow hockey as much I
53:02
I follow, I'm probably. I've gotten away a little bit
53:07
from the NFLNFL. Used to be if it was on Sunday,
53:10
I had to watch it, right. And now I found myself last
53:13
couple years not really paying. I pay attention, but I don't
53:17
watch it until we start getting the last part of the season.
53:20
Then I'll start watching it more frequently.
53:23
The baseball, being a Braves fan, you know we watch it all
53:27
the time, right? They they're they're in Seattle
53:30
right now. So I think the game ended at
53:31
1:00 last night Eastern Time and they lost again, two in a row.
53:35
So I watched that. You know, we do.
53:38
We do probably watch the Braves. Want anything?
53:42
College ball, man, we're eat up with.
53:44
I meet up with college ball. I meet up with Virginia and
53:47
Tech. I meet up with Virginia
53:48
basketball. I meet up with Virginia
53:50
football. I meet up with Virginia Tech
53:53
football and basketball. I meet up with JMU.
53:56
Because, you know, JMU is a little team now.
53:58
It's it's moved up. You know, they winning all
54:00
these, all the basketball and football games.
54:04
Watch all that stuff. I love watching SCC stuff.
54:08
Watch that stuff. But yeah, I'm a I'm a big sports
54:11
fan there's there's no doubt about watch the NBAI probably
54:16
watch I probably like the the the what is that deal the NBA
54:20
has with Barkley and Shaquila Deal and Kenny on TNT.
54:24
Inside the NBA. That one.
54:27
Whenever the playoffs are on, I always watch that stuff.
54:30
You know, these guys are hilarious, you know?
54:32
But I do keep up with just about all sports.
54:34
I, I, I really do. You know, Not not just those,
54:38
you know, try to watch golf when I can, You know, there's if it's
54:42
sports going on, Love the Olympics.
54:44
Just kind of a sports dud, I guess you'd say.
54:47
Yeah, that's what's interesting. You mentioned the Inside the
54:50
NBA, which which I think, and I I grew up actually more of a
54:54
basketball fan than a baseball fan because my dad was a big
54:57
Pistons fan. But I think if you're just
54:59
talking about the most entertaining show, regardless of
55:02
sport, I think it's that Inside the NBA specifically, because I
55:06
think Charles Barkley is, is maybe the most entertaining
55:09
person on TV. And I don't know if you saw
55:11
this, but NBC apparently is potentially gonna outbid Turner
55:18
for the rights of the NBA. And I'm just thinking you can't,
55:20
you can't take that show from the fans.
55:22
I mean that's it's interesting to me that you brought up that
55:24
show almost before the sport because that's how I think
55:27
that's how good that show is, that people, if if NBC got the
55:32
rights to the NBA and people are like, I can't see Charles
55:34
Barkley anymore, I mean that would be a travesty.
55:37
It would be. And and you know, I'll be honest
55:40
with you, I enjoy watching that more than do the ball.
55:43
You know, I mean I did and maybe maybe because I love Tony
55:48
Bennett and UVA style of play because you know, we're a fan
55:52
and his style of play is defense and to watch the NBA, that's a
55:56
completely different style. But I will say if you want to
55:59
play in the NBA, you go to Bennett, you'll you'll, you'll
56:01
get drafts of NBA, you'll be good at it.
56:03
But you know it's a whole different style of play and but
56:06
that's what makes things interesting.
56:07
You know everybody has different interests and everybody likes
56:10
different things and and but no, those guys, those guys rot.
56:15
They just kill it. It's the best, no doubt.
56:18
OK so this is this is breaking news though because because I
56:21
have a ton of buddies who went to UVA.
56:24
So that's all I hear about. All I hear about is is Virginia
56:27
basketball. And don't get me wrong they love
56:30
Tony Bennett. But I don't know if until today
56:32
with you Rick Mass. I don't know if I've ever heard
56:34
anybody say they actually prefer that style of basketball.
56:38
So maybe This is why you like the next Gen. car.
56:40
You you appreciate defense. Dude, I appreciate winning and I
56:48
started following UVA in 1976 when they won with Berry Park
56:51
Hill and those guys who won the championship or AC tournament
56:55
and I have witnessed and watched that deal through the Terry
56:57
Holland Ralph Sampson era, right?
56:59
Had some wins through that area and when that area was over dude
57:02
we're we're three decades. If you get an IT bid, man, you
57:07
go have parties. That's the best thing that ever
57:09
happened. Tony Bennett comes along and if
57:13
you don't win the NCAA championship, there's something
57:17
wrong, right? The expectation he has set there
57:20
and you go to a game there. The place is always sold out.
57:23
It's always loud. The the loudest.
57:25
You know what's weird? The loudest cheers they get at
57:27
John Paul Jones Arena. The loudest cheers is when the
57:30
defense holds the other team to a time violation.
57:35
Shot, clock, shot, clock goes off.
57:37
Me kidding you, man. That's the loudest cheers that
57:40
goes on in that building. So the fans have just just
57:43
adopted his style of play. And I know it.
57:46
I know it drives the other coaches all crazy.
57:48
But the dudes, but the the dude just wins, right?
57:51
He wins. How can you not love a winner?
57:54
How can you not love that? Yeah, and that's where, look,
57:58
the only the only sports team here I am, I'm about about to be
58:01
42 years old. The only sports team I care
58:03
about still to this day is Ohio State football.
58:06
And I know people hate, people hate our fan base.
58:09
The expectations are ridiculously high.
58:11
Where, look, Ohio State didn't lose to Michigan for about 20
58:15
years now. They lost all the time when I
58:17
was growing up in the 90s. That's why it was crazy.
58:20
I I couldn't. I mean, every year of the John
58:21
Cooper era, Ohio State was like 11 and O.
58:25
They would always lose to an 8 and three Michigan team.
58:27
And then Tressel gets their Urban Meyer.
58:30
Ohio State wins every single year and it's crazy the last
58:33
three years. Harbaugh, and I'm glad to see
58:36
him go, by the way. But Harbaugh beats Ohio State.
58:39
And. Ohio State fans want to fire
58:40
Ryan Day. He's literally won almost every
58:43
single game he's ever coached except for about 6, and three of
58:46
those were against Michigan. Same deal with Alabama.
58:50
Auburn. Who was it they fired years ago?
58:53
They won about every game, but they lost Alabama and they fired
58:55
the freaking coach, right? Same kind of deal.
58:57
Ohio State. Michigan's like, you know who's
58:59
a big Ohio State fan and alumni? The former president of Richmond
59:04
Raceway, Dennis Beckerman. OK, Dennis was president for I
59:09
don't know 7 to 8 years longer. Good guy.
59:12
He had some sports thing up now in Richmond.
59:13
But man you you talk. I mean he was he was as feverish
59:18
about Ohio State is some of that garage area people I go to about
59:21
Alabama, right. I mean it.
59:23
It's and those rivalries are real.
59:25
They are real. You know we have it here in
59:27
Virginia, Virginia, Virginia Tech.
59:29
But you know, it's nothing like Ohio State, Michigan or Alabama,
59:32
Auburn, I can tell you that. It's just cause those guys, man,
59:35
I mean they get after it. They get after it.
59:38
Yeah, it's funny because I'll talk to people here in Saint
59:40
Louis and they'll make fun of me sometimes for a variety of
59:43
reasons. But they'll they'll be like,
59:45
well, how can you be an Ohio State fan?
59:46
You didn't go to Ohio State now my whole family went to Ohio
59:49
State. I just chose to go to a
59:51
different college. But I'm like, you don't get it.
59:53
In Saint Louis, you root for the Cardinals and the Blues, and in
59:56
Kansas City, they root for the Chiefs and the and the Royals
59:59
and Mizzou. You know, Mizzou is is secondary
1:00:03
to the pro teams and I'm saying Ohio, the state of Ohio is like
1:00:07
the SEC. That's what I've always said,
1:00:09
where in the SEC you care about the SEC football team more than
1:00:12
you do the pro sports in that state.
1:00:14
And that's how Ohio is. If you asked what's your
1:00:18
favorite team and if you included college and pro, it
1:00:21
would be Ohio State football first before you got to
1:00:24
Cleveland Browns, Cincinnati Bengals, etcetera, etcetera.
1:00:28
Right, exactly. And you know there is a point in
1:00:31
time where it was sort of like that here in our state with UVA
1:00:34
Well, definitely when Michael Vicker, when we had the Michael
1:00:38
Vicker with Virginia Tech, you know and it you know because
1:00:41
when when Mike come on when he came to Tech man it it put it
1:00:45
put Tech on the map. I mean Beamer had been there for
1:00:47
a number of years, right. And Beamer's such a good guy and
1:00:50
a good coach. He suffered through losses first
1:00:52
few years and he got the winning and then when he got he was
1:00:55
starting to get a lot of these guys from the seven, seven we
1:00:58
call it 757, that's Eastern. The the the Norfolk, VA Beach
1:01:02
area of our state where so many good athletes come from.
1:01:05
He started recruiting and getting all those guys and he
1:01:08
sealed it up with with Michael Vick and when he did that, you
1:01:11
know they played for the championship that year of
1:01:13
Florida State should have won that game man.
1:01:15
They had to beat the whole game in in the end up losing.
1:01:18
But you know, that's that that set.
1:01:21
It said everything for Tech then, right?
1:01:23
And everybody, everybody in the state just become fanatical
1:01:26
about it. Because before that you really
1:01:28
didn't have anything in Virginia with George Welch, who was doing
1:01:31
well to pull from but it. But the fans were never
1:01:35
fanatical. Like you're talking about, like
1:01:37
with Ohio State and Alabama, we still don't have it that way
1:01:41
because you haven't been prolific winners, right?
1:01:44
But, and I tell people all the time, man, the deal, the deal
1:01:47
with athletics, you know, you have the professors fussed
1:01:49
about, you know, coaches making more than them.
1:01:51
I said well yeah, but look at numbers at Virginia Tech.
1:01:54
Look at their missions. Look at their missions
1:01:57
acceptance rate prior Victoria, post Victoria go back one year
1:02:02
10 years or down to decades and look at the numbers right and
1:02:06
see that it shows you what sports drive or what what it
1:02:09
drives rather And you know but we're we're not fortunate as you
1:02:13
guys and the Alabama guys to be that that feverishly crazy about
1:02:20
these these teams. But yeah and you and you get on
1:02:23
A roll and it's cool man. You get on A roll if your team,
1:02:26
your college team gets on A roll and you've been to a couple of
1:02:28
them it, whether it be basketball or baseball to some
1:02:31
degree or in any of the sports, and I don't know, it just
1:02:36
complements, it compliments to be my ultimate deal and that's
1:02:40
NASCAR. I love it.
1:02:43
Let's end on that note. Perfect ending.
1:02:45
We're over an hour and this was fun.
1:02:48
Episode 2. Rick, we're going to do this
1:02:50
every week. I think we're getting on a nice
1:02:52
roll. Man.
1:02:52
This is this is fun. Thank you.
1:02:54
Well, thank you, Charlie and all the fans out there.
1:02:56
Remember replacement cost, Remember replacement cost.
1:03:01
See ya. See.
1:03:02
You guys.