Latest / Diagnosing Dx / Could a $127M Seed Round Change Women's Health Forever? - Dean Remy, Co-Founder @ Mativa Dx

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Could a $127M Seed Round Change Women's Health Forever? - Dean Remy, Co-Founder @ Mativa Dx · Diagnosing Dx

• David Filby: Welcome to the show this week, Dean. How are you? Dean Remy @Mativa Dx: Thanks for having me. I'm doing fantastic, in spite of the heat wave we're s entering in right now. David Filby: Yeah. I should probably say welcome back because you're the first person to return to the show, which is awesome. What's really interesting is the first episode we did together, we were really plugging into your experience around raising capital in diagnostics because of something you've been heavily involved in it's been an incredible challenge in the industry. And now you're back representing one of the most exciting companies in women's health diagnostics to come through. So, not for my benefit, but we should probably ask you to introduce yourself because this will be the first time some people have met you. So take it away. Dean Remy @Mativa Dx: Yeah, thank you. appreciate it. Spent the last thirty five years navigating what'd say sorta the intersection of diagnostics, biotech and therapeutics. witnessed obviously a massive evolution of diagnostics in the we'll call it in the the research or or medical space, but definitely in in therapeutics, where they become a lot more precise and targeted. And you know it used to be w when I looked at it it'd kind of be very routine, but the diagnostics at home just did not move. especially in the women's health space. So I saw a glaring stagnation. So realised we had the the technology to do so much more than the current approaches, for the current standards of care. And so that is my become my real current focus, is on the maternal health space and and trying to revamp its its approach. David Filby: awesome. And so what is your current role and who with? Dean Remy @Mativa Dx: Yeah, so I'm with Mativeva Diagnostics, a company that I've helped co found and and launch. we've got a small team. I'm still doing the team build and the advisory board build on it, but we're pioneering the next generation of pregnancy care. we're not just building another task, we're building really a connected maternal ecosystem, Kind of moving the industry away from what I often call the test and guess model to a new standard test track and take action approach. So our platform will integrate really an advanced handheld device, looks sort of like this guy here, with an AI enabled mobile app and instant care navigation. So we don't just tell the woman she's pregnant, we're simultaneously flagging early risk factors for life threatening conditions. David Filby: And so why is that needed in maternal health and where's maternal health now? What's the sort of the unmet need and the need there? Dean Remy @Mativa Dx: Yeah, you know, the the unfortunate thing is the the standard of care, you know, the over over the counter type pregnancy test, it hasn't changed in fifty years, right? slightly better antibody, slightly more sensitive. we now have little digital plus minuses that are put on top of it, but that's because you know, people would have a tough time recognizing you know, a band's presence or absence, much like we went through with COVID, right? so the the idea was you know The technology as is is passe. we don't need to recreate the wheel with something that is less successful. and so as a result, you know, we think because those tests being binary, we've routinely left women in the dark about critical early risks, such as ecotopic pregnancy and pre eclampsia, during the most vulnerable weeks of their journey. So that was the first part of what we want to address, but we also know that the current system sort of isolates women, creating a massive gap in that maternal mental health support area. so a positive test that brings anxiety to to women, our goal is to not leave them left behind to navigate the next steps alone. David Filby: interesting. So there's a lack of information early in pregnancy and then it's leaving women to in what is an incredible incredibly stressful period of their lives to suddenly try and figure out the navigating of what next. Dean Remy @Mativa Dx: Yeah, yeah, you said it very, very well. There what's known as the the six to eight or sometimes six to ten week gap, from the point a woman tests positive to when she might get her first visit with the O B G Y N. That's when a lot of those risks will present themselves, especially at topics. so, you know, to wait for that eight-week ultrasound to happen to identify risks, it's no longer acceptable. we have the technology today to take early action, test, and save lives. So we're fixing this problem by connecting, you know, the diagnostic event immediately to our free maternal ecosystem, which will make introductions to care clinics, physicians, OBGYNs and and other insurance. ensuring that you know we support them both physically and mentally but also with information and access to the care that she's going to need. David Filby: Yeah, super interesting. Where does the science come from originally? You mentioned you co-founded the business, but what's the sort of background of the business and where does it come from? Dean Remy @Mativa Dx: Yeah, yeah, great question. so we licensed IP out of UPen and the Wistar Institute. One of the individuals is highly recognized with his work on biomarkers and formulaic algorithms in the ectopic pregnancy space, but also pre eclapsia as well. he's a practicing OBG and runs a large clinic associated with UPenn medical center. and we saw this IP as incredibly valuable, but not such that we would want to, you know, recreate a simple piss on a stick type of model. we we've we felt, yeah, if we have great IP, let's attach great technology and great understanding and capability to that platform. So we l launched with that IP. We partnered with firms, one out in your neck of the woods to help develop the our graphene nanosensor based technology. So we wanted the technology to be the most sensitive possible. we still wanted it to be a urine-based pregnancy test with these risk factors built in. So we wanted to go with the most sensitive potential technology and something that we can make you know quantifiable for sure. as we're gonna go for our class two de novos with device assay and software as a medical device, I wanted to make certain that we had the best in class testing platform. The other nice thing is It'll enable us to avoid some of the things that are a little more challenging, such as the antibody supply part of traditional testing methodies. and it also allows us to do complex multiplexing. So that means we can do upwards of 10 biomarkers at the same time with extreme sensitivity. So being able to do that right in your own home, it doesn't stop at you know just the sensor. You know, you have that with the AI-enabled apt, and it translates that complex biomarker data into clear guidance. I did clinical pathways for the young lady. David Filby: Wow, that's super interesting. And actually, I think the more we talk, there's loads of things that make what Mativa are doing Dean Remy @Mativa Dx: Yeah. For sure. David Filby: in more interesting than the average diagnostic test trying to be commercialized. So give me a bit of insight into where you guys are now and what you're currently trying to achieve. Dean Remy @Mativa Dx: Yeah, so we do not consider ourselves having to do proof of concept data any longer. we've got ten years worth of, study data on these biomarkers and serum. we'll move forward with an LDT partnering with you know, large clinical reference lab to do that. But for us, we know from most recent studies that we did that our biomarkers are indeed present in urine. so for us, redeveloping what that algorithm, predictive algorithm is going to look like. in urine and in you know a complex environment of women from all parts of the world early morning samples versus late day urine samples often behave differently which you know we recognize from the clinical lab space that I was in So we plan on building out a maternal biorepository that is first in class. We're looking to collect close to 4,000 individuals longitudinally followed throughout pregnancy and for some number of collections post-delivery or the pregnancy's natural end. And then potentially even integrating some samples from the newborn as well. It'll be a massive biorepository. We intend to be close to or top a million cryo-preserved samples in all, full omics data, full patient histories, full chemistries. It's going to enable us to validate MVPs one, two, and three for the test chips. the device itself is is reusable so when they purchase a test kit our goal is to have it as an off-the-shelf pharmacy available item you know in the 18 to 24 26 dollar range so you know very palatable in cost and they can use that device over and over and over again. So the chips are sort of the razor blades in the razor razor blade model. And she can order additional test chips like pregnancy maintenance to make sure that things are still you know moving forward as possible. It would also include additional pre-eclampsia biomarkers as well. We're also intending to build a gestational diabetes chip, a an STI chip or sexually transmitted infections chip, and a drug of abuse chip. So different things that could potentially negatively impact impact the likely success of that pregnancy are all things that we plan on creating chips around. And the woman has the the luxury of just being able to request more or request different chips via the app and they show up in her in her mail a few days later so she can run the assays in the in the privacy of her own home. So for us we're running a lot of concurrent programs. We'll be running the hardware design, the assay chip design, the software as a medical device design, the biorepository site enrollment and everything build out is all going to be run concurrently We've already vetted out the various partners we're gonna use, and you know have all these numbers really solid. So the budget is also quite solid around running this company as virtually as possible throughout probably regulatory approvals for sure. David Filby: you're going big. You're going, I think it's fair to say you're going big, right? Dean Remy @Mativa Dx: Yes, yeah. David Filby: So where you are now is at the end of development prototype and we'll come on to raising capital next, but there's so much to unpack here. So everything you're saying in terms of what now needs to happen and running it concurrently. Dean Remy @Mativa Dx: Yeah. David Filby: screams that's expensive, right? There's a lot to build. So let's take it piece by piece. The bio repository, Dean Remy @Mativa Dx: Yes. David Filby: this is a big part of the business and what currently exists in terms of bio repositories around maternal health at the moment, or is this a first of its kind that can be used for? years and generations to come as it grows to help predict and develop and innovate for future breakthroughs in maternal health. Dean Remy @Mativa Dx: Yeah, that's a that's a great question. And yes, well you know, our our concurrent pathways, it's a big mission, but our mission is simple, right? It's to provide smarter, safer start to every pregnancy. The biorepository David Filby: Yeah. Dean Remy @Mativa Dx: is going to help us ensure that we have best in class assays, that we've been able to discover novel biomarkers, just because there have not been a lot of really good biorepositories in the maternal health space. David Filby: Right. Dean Remy @Mativa Dx: there are some that are are university driven. Often samples are brought in from you know multiples and multiples of different programs. So know, sending quality scores to data from samples, you know, that have been compiled for multiple studies is a challenge for sure. so for us having a single biorepository built under what we'll say is really a very well standardized process protocol and and IRB is going to ensure the best possible sample quality. And it's going to put it on par as you know has been the design intent with something one would build for a therapeutic. So we're very intentional on it. Our costing will probably be close to 34, 35 million on that, but we've already been told by several SMEs in the space when it's all done you know we have the ability to sell off that as a singular asset to you know a major pharma company or if the government wanted to step in. then and you know continue the program, that could be something that would be feasible. But we're looking at a valuation of of close to half a billion dollars plus, have some thoughts on how to increase that valuation for very little cost as well, to us as an organization. So the biorepository is going to be a central piece of what we build. And that is one to de-risk the investment of the company as a whole to VCs, David Filby: Yeah. Dean Remy @Mativa Dx: but the other is to fill the gap. We think there's just not not been historically enough good samples, also of the breadth and diversity of sample types that we'll also be collecting at every single visit. So it is it really is a substantial development in the maternal space. So its value is gonna be quite high. David Filby: Yeah, that's it. It's really interesting, right? Because my immediate reaction to that is, why doesn't every diagnostics company build one, right? And then obviously there's a huge expense to it, but it does sound like the underlying factor here is actually that it's really necessary in maternal health and someone needs to do it and grab it. There's a huge gap there. But is that how you guys seen it? Did you see it as actually... there's a huge opportunity there and a need to build that by repository. And then later on, did you discover that actually the value of that could be an incredible de-risking factor for the business? Dean Remy @Mativa Dx: Yeah, good question. I think it was a little bit of both, for certain. some of it came off of conversations that we had with some VCs, you know, about a year ago that said, Why don't you just go after IVF organizations and buy their samples and you know quickly test them out and send it off? Well one IBF centers typically don't aren't having the same issues because it's implanted. So an ectopic is not not the issue. but number two, they're typically ninety percent ninety-two percent white and they're a hundred percent wealthy compared to the individuals that are likely to be walking into a CVS, Walgreens or or similar, the police pull an off the shelf device and test themselves. So from the f the former, I don't know what that data means. It doesn't validate my assays at all. We might get some quick data and we can show the FDA and we're pretty convinced the FDA would say, is this your target market? No. So for us it's like let's just do it right from ground zero. but you know as we started you know waxing philosophical this we we got phone calls from CEOs in therapeutics companies trying to develop therapies for preeclampsia as one example. And they were very unreal like, let me know when these become available because we know we're going to want to test we're gonna take a look at data, we want in license access so we can test out our our thesis. they may even you know acquire some subset of aliquots in the biorepository. so we do know it's going to be valuable to many more individuals and firms just us. but as part of the de-risking strategy, and where VCs historically have not played a lot in the diagnostic space, it it wasn't until, you know, we'll call it the the tougher cancers where and they realize that, you know, hey, wow, there's diagnostics companies actually making money in this space, right? David Filby: Yeah. Dean Remy @Mativa Dx: of precision diagnostics for cancer, that the the VCs started to get on board with diagnostics. and now we're trying to move it earlier in the process. You know, can we enable people to test themselves? So you will see currently that the vast majority of VC investments in the diagnostic space are still on serum-based data. They still require a patient to go to have their blood drawn somewhere and that those samples get sent out for you know an assay that has a CPT code. and then the results go back to the physician so and the woman's, you know, kind of in the dark until somebody calls her with a result. So, you know, or or guy for that matter, for cancer. For us it was like, you know, how do we enable the the woman with the most advanced sensitive data early on and then that access to care and it was only having confidence in the in the assays that we build. that we can sit down with regulatory and say, this is the target audience. We know how our assays perform in every situation. So for us it was intentional scientifically, but the end, from a capital point of view, when we do spin it off as a separate asset, that's a huge win obviously to the early investors. David Filby: Yeah, massive. Let's talk about the commercial model because you've talked about regular people being able to go to their local pharmacy and picking this up off the shelf. Dean Remy @Mativa Dx: Yeah. Yeah. David Filby: What's the idea behind the commercial model and how much emphasis is there on direct consumer versus other avenues for the actual product itself? Dean Remy @Mativa Dx: I mean obviously, you know, pharmacies in the US are largely huge commercial endeavors, right? The C V S's, the Walgreens, and it's a huge amount of the ops here, even the Walmarts and their clinics. so this is much more cla characterized a B2B to C type of asset. so commercially speaking, we are taking a like this dual prong approach where we're aggressively pursuing what region Retail shelf space for consumer access will be through partnerships with strategics in that space of ones I've mentioned previously, while simultaneously ensuring that you the rigorous standards required for for clinical environments are are met and our platforms able to do that. Operationally, right now, our focus is on executing our institutional fundraising strategy and advancing you know our ongoing discussions with major healthcare providers and consumer retail partners. So we'd see them as investment partners. Partners for sure. you know, a device like this where it's not a one and done, but is actually integrated into the thinking pathway of the care that you know the woman's going to seek or prescriptions she's going to want or maternal vitamins or prenatal vitamins or you can add the you know, a long laundry list of the types of things if someone is moving forward the pregnancy or is not that they are going to need support in and a lot of these are provided by those same organizations. So having clear line of insight into who is looking for said service is going to I think resonate very, very well with these firms. David Filby: Yeah, interesting. Now you've mentioned partnerships and even your B2B relationships also seen as potential investment partnerships. How much of the business strategy and where are the key areas where you think partnerships are really going to accelerate the model? and allow you to ultimately achieve your goals. Dean Remy @Mativa Dx: well I think the the meetings with strategics have to happen immediately and I'm already setting up conversations with these firms because it's so much more than just getting the asset on their shelf, it is insurance codes, right? So if somebody comes in and they're under a you know specific health plan and they they can get you know discounts or get it through a physician prescription to get tested, they need to be able to do that. We also need to be able to integrate with their EHNS and and other systems internally right for data translation and share. So that is a really crucial part for us to have those conversations early on. you know, if it's from the the pharmacy perspective that I was just chatting about here, you know, the CVS and Walgreens of the world, but it could be from a supplier to these pharmacy chains, you know, the unilevers of the world and PGs. So I David Filby: Yeah. Yeah. Dean Remy @Mativa Dx: I'm some of I see reaching out and setting up conversations with those organizations as well. And they all have venture groups as well. Because again, going back, you know, if if a woman is pregnant and and let's say she's moving forward with the pregnancy, there are so many other products that these firms have that are aligned exactly for that customer. So being able to then right through the pregnancy test and app, be able to line up, you know, like the the shopping network of things that, you know, the woman David Filby: Yep. Dean Remy @Mativa Dx: might need downstream is is really going to resonate very well with these firms. David Filby: Yeah, that's super interesting. And what about things like regulatory hurdles, reimbursement pathways? How does that come into it with this type of product? Dean Remy @Mativa Dx: Yeah, so We were intentional about the device being an off the shelf. so we were less concerned about the strenuous nature of of CPT codes and things like that from the onset, knowing that we can move forward with you know getting it into people's hands at a price point they can afford and and the insurance piece becomes less necessary, for sure. so we're we're happy on that. we will partner with firms that are already producing point of care devices for OBG UNs and Minute Clinics and the like. They've already several have already expressed interest in licensing our biomarkers from us to make them enabled for their own devices, which for me is a a huge win. to not have to go through that that full on point of care device manufacturing process, the regulatory around that, and then to build out a commercial team to actually get the products sold into OBG UN offices. there was not a pathway we thought that the investors would have interest in. So for David Filby: Yeah. Dean Remy @Mativa Dx: us, having a very solid revenue stream from just the off-the-shelf and then some side licensing value from every assay run through point of care and the LDTs as mentioned earlier in that conversation are going to be kind of mission critical. But also from the insurance side And not for the sake of paying for the device, but for enabling the young lady who may not have insurance with insurance is something we've already started conversations of as well. So we do know that a it is v not atypical when a woman becomes pregnant may seek to get insurance if she doesn't have it already. So we wanna find some of these enabling partners strategics that are providing said services, so that you know she can ensure that she's properly covered as she's going through this this path as well. I don't know if that entirely you answered all the points your question, but hopefully. David Filby: No, absolutely. And so let's come on to capital because we've talked to sort of an everything around the plat. It's so exciting and there's so many elements to it. And Dean Remy @Mativa Dx: Yeah. David Filby: I actually love what you just said about not just chasing the traditional build out of Salesforce and try and sell it. to be, mean, obviously, you know, I interview a lot of early stage founders and what tends to happen is the most. naive and that's probably really harsh but you know maybe a founder who's come straight out of academia thrust into this private company for the first time. You know they're the ones whose business plans are the traditional regulatory approval, reimbursement, build sales team, try and compete and it's a brutal, brutal road. Whereas every time I speak to a founder who talks about partnerships, licensing, and these things that are about gaining access, know, widely and early, that for me always feels like a really mature, robust business plan in this field. But let's talk about capital. Like what's the plan there and how do we see that unfolding? Dean Remy @Mativa Dx: Yep. so we just recently embarked on a actually one hundred and twenty seven million dollar fundraise. It's still tweaking some of the finer points of one of the components internally, but it's not gonna change significantly from that. First crunch is around the twenty mil. that's going to really launch the graphene nanosensor chip build out so actually encapsulating our capture molecules onto these. the hardware prototype of what a product that looks more like this versus you know the original one looks more like just say you know outdated lab toy. so for us to build something that we can prototype in the hands at user sites. because we want to s test not only you the assays, you know, that's a no brainer, but the user interface design, our strategy around really an agile development of the user interface so that we put it out, we let folks test feedback, we make changes, test feedback, make changes, and we'll do this iteratively throughout the process. So when we get to a point of having a product to show the FDA so here's what the software as a medical device asset looks like and they say, you know, what was your user interface you know validation of this look like we'll have all the data around that. similarly we will be setting up also a day one with that the first tranche our the regulatory team we've already got a partner identified. I've vetted many of them over the last year. lots of experience with software as a medical device as well as class two de novo's device and assays plus EU UK other so that'll help fast track our assemblage of the content necessary for international filings and we want that built really you know within the first year so that the the pipe is starting to fill with the content and information necessary for the regulatory approvals and in in different parts of the globe. and our QMS team besides the regulatory team a QMS team will be working hand in hand with that group to build out the the architecture for having a regulatorily auditable infrastructure as well and we have our AI infrastructure and data lake build team Vetted, priced, and they are ready to go. It's a bunch of current and former anthropic designers. So they know this industry, they know cybersecurity incredibly well. They do a lot of governmental work. So for us, we wanted to have since we're going to be working globally, it was important that we met alignments regulatorily speaking for our data capture, collection, and utilization. So we have to take look at every single part of the globe and understand we compliant here, here, here, here, and here. So this will all be set up right at the onset and ready to go. So we're not gonna go back like a lot of companies because they're penny pinching all the way through and I get it. You know, they just don't build out this infrastructure from ground and then they have to go back and revamp how they named files, where they stored files, do they know that this was the final iteration of a file and especially when you've got multiples of people that are contributing to it. So for us it was critical that we set this up properly from day zero. So David Filby: Interesting. So with the 127 million, where does that get you to in the life cycle? And how does that work in terms of the tranches of when you're raising that amount of capital, are you saying to institutional investors, we're looking to get commitment for the full 127 and these are the tranches and milestones along the way, or are you going out with that 20 million as your target with things will change to raise the hundreds. How does it work when you're in the fundraising mode? Dean Remy @Mativa Dx: Yeah, we're we're going after the full on one twenty seven. we want a lead investor. whatever that looks like. It could be individual high net worth, it could be a large family office, it could be an institutional V C. but we want them on for the long journey, with us because I always think of the your your venture capital partners as partners. If they're not that latter, do you really want their money? you know, you want people that are bringing more than just the the check writing to the table. They have subject matter expertise, they have contacts. So for me that is crucial for us. So we are looking at as a total amount. Now you ask the question at the at the the front end, where does this get us? This gets us a regulatory Approved device, and the chips MVP1, the pregnancy and risk chip, the pregnancy maintenance and follow-on chip. We haven't named that one yet, and the gestational diabetes chip will all will be in the regulatory process already. So three MVPs, and part of the reason for doing that is we wanted the woman to be able to order chips if she's moving forward the pregnancy. We want those chips to be ready to go, not in the future. So for us it was. it was important that we at least get those three in process so that we can get the product on the shelf i in what I'll call a finished version of it, and it meets the needs of, you know, ninety, ninety five percent of all the women out there. David Filby: And does that include the sort of fully populated bio repository of the 4,000 samples at that point as well? Dean Remy @Mativa Dx: yeah, so the the biorepository would be long done by the end of year three. So we we anticipate taking a full on eighteen to twenty four months to build it. we will be doing bite-sized chunks at generating the genomic, transcriptomic, targeted proteomic, metabolomic toxin studies. I didn't talk about that one, that's a a new one. infectious studies. but then it'll also give us the ability now to go back because we've got such a super massive representation of of women and their pathway that we're going to see early onset pre-clampsia late onset pre-eclampsia postpartum pre-clampsia I can now take 25 25 25 25 normal Pregnancies and 25 non-pregnants and do top-down proteomics on them all and hopefully discover some of those new novel biomarkers. So our goal has been when we get our regulatory approval for MVPs one and two, we can start advertising that the biorepository is for sale. so we're hoping to have that fully sold off by three and a half, maybe four years in. so that's a really nice ROI to the original investors that work with us David Filby: Massive. Dean Remy @Mativa Dx: and partner with us on this one. and you know it's all in the details but you know they can either you know look at it as an early ROI to their table of LPs or we just say here's what the the anticipated B round to go after you know STIs and DAUs and you know maybe a a new chip for the early late plus modern pre-eclampsia those new biomarkers we'll have to go to the FDA with. That B round we might just be able to self-fund with the sale of the biorepository and there's no further dilution of the original team. So it's a win-win for everybody either way. David Filby: Interesting. That's awesome. Dean, I'm going to ask you one last question. There's so much going on here. What are Dean Remy @Mativa Dx: Okay. There it is. David Filby: you most excited about? Dean Remy @Mativa Dx: you know, I think I'm a firm believer that data is the new diagnostic. the historicity, you know, moving forward, companies aren't gonna win by simply selling these single use test kits. They're quick to get in the market, but you don't know your user, you don't know what the result is. There's no data there, right? it's not scalable. you just sell more, but it's not a scalable technology. You can't add to it. longitudinal data sets are going to be absolutely crucial and we're kind of entering this period you you've probably seen but you call it care convergence, right? I think the successful life science companies are gonna be in the next decade or so, you know, maybe less than that, they're gonna be the ones like us that blur the lines between diagnostic hardware, digital therapeutics, and instant care navigation, right? So the ultimate winner, and I think we're gonna be one of those, is gonna be the company like Mative that owns and supports the entire patient journey right from the moment of testing. Yeah. David Filby: That's fantastic. And I think you're right. I think what you're trying to do is move away from that traditional build test, cell test model and really develop something that's truly of unique value in the size of data and the specificity of it in an existing problem and clearly a data set that just doesn't exist in women's health. And that's really sad. And I think what you're trying to do is absolutely fantastic. Dean Remy @Mativa Dx: Can you imagine if every pregnancy test of the last ten years had data coming from it? Right? Along the entire journey? That's what we're building here. David Filby: We had an ectopic pregnancy and we had no idea what was going on. It was a really sad moment for us when it really unraveled. Dean Remy @Mativa Dx: I bet, I bet. Sorry to hear that and and hopefully we can prevent or at least let it not get to a point where it's life threatening for the mother. Right. David Filby: we were lucky it wasn't that, yeah, we were very lucky. Cause we actually didn't even know that that was a risk of what had happened. Dean Remy @Mativa Dx: Yeah. David Filby: unfortunately natural. Dean Remy @Mativa Dx: Yeah, we're hoping that women aren't left behind just because they're not in the no. So yeah. Awesome. David Filby: Yeah. Dean, thank you so much for coming on and talk about this. The Dean Remy @Mativa Dx: Thank you as well, Dave. David Filby: whole industry should be rooting for Mativa. I'm excited to get the story out and tell it, but thank you for coming on and being so transparent and open and we're all rooting for you. Dean Remy @Mativa Dx: Hugely appreciated. Thank you. Thank you again for for having me and and and supporting what we're trying to do in changing the industry. So thank you.