Latest / The Breakfast Club / INTERVIEW: Anita Kopacz Reveals Her 2nd Book, Connection To The Ancestors + More

Transcript

INTERVIEW: Anita Kopacz Reveals Her 2nd Book, Connection To The Ancestors + More · The Breakfast Club

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Wake that ass up in the morning.
• 0:02
  Speaker 2: The Breakfast Club Morning.
• 0:04
  Speaker 3: Everybody is the j Envy Jess, hilarious, Charlamagne a god.
• 0:08
  Speaker 3: We are to Breakfast Club long the Rosa fillin Info Jess,
• 0:10
  Speaker 3: And we got a special guest in the building. Yes, indeed,
• 0:13
  Speaker 3: back with a new book out right now, The Wind
• 0:16
  Speaker 3: on her Tongue, Ladies and gentlemen, Anita Kopak.
• 0:19
  Speaker 4: Welcome, thank you, thank you. It is so awesome to
• 0:22
  Speaker 4: be back here.
• 0:23
  Speaker 5: That's right, book two of the Daughters of the Daughter
• 0:26
  Speaker 5: of Three Waters trilogy.
• 0:28
  Speaker 4: Yes, yes, yes, tell us what the wind in the
• 0:31
  Speaker 4: tongue is?
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: Win on her Tongue is all about.
• 0:33
  Speaker 6: So the Wind on her Tongue is about Oya, who
• 0:36
  Speaker 6: is the daughter of Yameya.
• 0:38
  Speaker 4: Whom our first novel, Shallow Waters is about yea Aya.
• 0:42
  Speaker 6: And so Oya is her daughter, and not only in
• 0:45
  Speaker 6: my stories, but in the ancient parables and in the
• 0:49
  Speaker 6: religion of the Europe of people the Epha and so
• 0:53
  Speaker 6: Oya is the goddess of the wind and storms and
• 0:59
  Speaker 6: so many other things. But I think one of the
• 1:02
  Speaker 6: things that mainstream might know her as like Storm, the
• 1:08
  Speaker 6: character in Black x Men, she is kind of fashioned
• 1:13
  Speaker 6: after Oya. So Oya can like change the weather and
• 1:17
  Speaker 6: bring So this year, which is twenty twenty five, is
• 1:22
  Speaker 6: a number nine.
• 1:24
  Speaker 4: Year, sure, which is Oya's number.
• 1:27
  Speaker 6: Yes, the end, right, if this is the end, this
• 1:30
  Speaker 6: is when there's a lot of transformation. Things are moving fast,
• 1:33
  Speaker 6: and we can tell as soon as twenty twenty five started,
• 1:36
  Speaker 6: right like what this year is. And so this is
• 1:40
  Speaker 6: really the energy of Oya. And that was not on
• 1:43
  Speaker 6: purpose that this book was coming out on a year nine.
• 1:48
  Speaker 7: So in the opening of the book, it's not like
• 1:50
  Speaker 7: the first chapter. I don't know if it's the forward
• 1:52
  Speaker 7: or the note, but you talk about how like in
• 1:55
  Speaker 7: black communities we're not really allowed to talk about these
• 1:58
  Speaker 7: like folklore. The other communities and other ethnicities are able
• 2:02
  Speaker 7: to talk about. And it made me think about how
• 2:04
  Speaker 7: like with your grandma, even with my grandma, certain things
• 2:07
  Speaker 7: she's like, turn it off, that's demonica, that's not God.
• 2:10
  Speaker 7: But then they have certain things that they lean into.
• 2:12
  Speaker 7: How do you have those conversations with your family because
• 2:14
  Speaker 7: you're putting this on the forefront, and I'm sure some
• 2:16
  Speaker 7: of your family is like, girl, what are you doing?
• 2:18
  Speaker 6: Absolutely, And the thing is is that I've had these
• 2:21
  Speaker 6: conversations like way earlier from the beginning, because I would
• 2:25
  Speaker 6: be like, well, what do.
• 2:26
  Speaker 4: You mean, Like we can't learn about our history. We
• 2:29
  Speaker 4: can't learn about our like gods and.
• 2:31
  Speaker 6: Goddesses, our parables, right, our stories? Why is it demonic?
• 2:37
  Speaker 6: Who said it to demonic? We know who said it
• 2:40
  Speaker 6: to demonic? Right, And so it's like we've I've dot
• 2:45
  Speaker 6: white people, yeah.
• 2:48
  Speaker 4: Saying it.
• 2:49
  Speaker 6: But they got it from somewhere, right, they got it
• 2:51
  Speaker 6: from somewhere because it's like it's it's where.
• 2:54
  Speaker 4: Our ancestors are from. It's us. It's like who we are.
• 2:57
  Speaker 6: And so even if you're not going to practice the religion,
• 3:00
  Speaker 6: you know, like it's like, oh, but can't we know
• 3:03
  Speaker 6: our history? Like why is it demonic to know our history?
• 3:06
  Speaker 4: To know the stories? And they know them.
• 3:09
  Speaker 6: Like if you think of like some of the the
• 3:11
  Speaker 6: who do practice practices, it's like in our families, like
• 3:15
  Speaker 6: you know, if you're going to the beginning of the year,
• 3:17
  Speaker 6: you want to have black eyed peas, you know, like exactly,
• 3:21
  Speaker 6: and so it's like.
• 3:22
  Speaker 4: We're doing it, we're doing it.
• 3:24
  Speaker 6: But you know, it's there's just that that fine line.
• 3:29
  Speaker 6: But I think more and more people are waking up
• 3:31
  Speaker 6: because it's in us.
• 3:32
  Speaker 4: It's in us. And like it.
• 3:34
  Speaker 6: A part of it is our power, remembering our power,
• 3:38
  Speaker 6: remembering who we are, and and so there's not really
• 3:43
  Speaker 6: any stopping. We can't burn books, we can do whatever
• 3:46
  Speaker 6: it is. It's inside of us. It's inside of us,
• 3:49
  Speaker 6: and at some point some of us are going to remember,
• 3:53
  Speaker 6: some of us are going to write it down right,
• 3:55
  Speaker 6: and who knows who's going to be inspired by this
• 3:58
  Speaker 6: book right to create more things and remember more things.
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: So what made you dive into all of this?
• 4:05
  Speaker 3: I know you were here before, you briefly explained, but
• 4:07
  Speaker 3: for people that this is the first time hearing, what
• 4:10
  Speaker 3: made you dive into this part of it?
• 4:12
  Speaker 6: So to me, I felt like Oya, not oya, yeme
• 4:15
  Speaker 6: Ya like dove into me because I was, I would say, curious,
• 4:20
  Speaker 6: but not like I wasn't. I wasn't practicing the religion
• 4:24
  Speaker 6: or anything, but I had a lot of friends who were.
• 4:28
  Speaker 6: And someone had told me that yeme Ya watched over
• 4:33
  Speaker 6: our ancestors as they came over on the slave ships.
• 4:37
  Speaker 4: And I was just like, what.
• 4:39
  Speaker 6: We had a black mermaid like watching over us, watching
• 4:42
  Speaker 6: over the souls that jumped off, And I was like,
• 4:44
  Speaker 6: what is this? I was like, I don't know these
• 4:46
  Speaker 6: stories and I'm a curious person, so I was like,
• 4:50
  Speaker 6: I want to learn about this, and so as I
• 4:53
  Speaker 6: was diving in, I just felt so connected.
• 4:57
  Speaker 4: The more and more I learned, the more.
• 4:58
  Speaker 6: I felt like I woke up, the I felt like
• 5:00
  Speaker 6: I was going.
• 5:01
  Speaker 4: Home and I was like, what is this? And so.
• 5:07
  Speaker 6: At some point I decided to, you know, write the book.
• 5:11
  Speaker 6: And as I was writing the book, to me, it
• 5:14
  Speaker 6: felt like for Shallow Waters, it felt like, yeah, yeah,
• 5:16
  Speaker 6: was sitting at the edge of the bed telling me
• 5:18
  Speaker 6: the story.
• 5:19
  Speaker 4: And so there were things.
• 5:22
  Speaker 6: That I had to look up after to make sure
• 5:24
  Speaker 6: that you know history, these are both historical fiction, and
• 5:28
  Speaker 6: so the history part I definitely had to like look
• 5:32
  Speaker 6: up make sure that it all made sense. And of
• 5:35
  Speaker 6: course you know the publishers they helped me with that as.
• 5:38
  Speaker 4: Well too, to keep me on point.
• 5:41
  Speaker 6: But I would say if I just felt such a
• 5:44
  Speaker 6: calling to it. And then what was interesting was when
• 5:48
  Speaker 6: Shallow Waters came out, African Ancestry got a hold of
• 5:52
  Speaker 6: me and they're like, do you want to see like
• 5:55
  Speaker 6: where your ancestry is from. I was like, yeah, actually
• 5:58
  Speaker 6: that would be kind of dope, and it is.
• 6:01
  Speaker 4: It's Yureba and Housa and so I was like, Oh,
• 6:04
  Speaker 4: it's because it was It's in me, gotcha, That's why
• 6:07
  Speaker 4: I felt so connected.
• 6:09
  Speaker 5: You know, you wrote an article for People magazine and
• 6:11
  Speaker 5: break it down the parallels between Wicked's el Faba Alphaba
• 6:16
  Speaker 5: Alphabe Yes and how they defy the gravity of social
• 6:20
  Speaker 5: norms and expectations break then m.
• 6:23
  Speaker 6: So when I watched Wicked and I saw Alphaba's character,
• 6:28
  Speaker 6: I was like, Oh, this is Oya right, Like, like
• 6:31
  Speaker 6: how nobody understands her. How when she gets mad, this
• 6:34
  Speaker 6: power comes out of her. She doesn't understand the power,
• 6:37
  Speaker 6: and then someone else has to understand it first, you know,
• 6:40
  Speaker 6: help her to like hone it. And there were so
• 6:44
  Speaker 6: many things how she just stood up against the like
• 6:49
  Speaker 6: societal norms right, and was able to be herself.
• 6:54
  Speaker 4: And she did have to.
• 6:55
  Speaker 6: Go through her own journey and different relationships in.
• 6:58
  Speaker 4: Order to do that.
• 6:59
  Speaker 6: So Oia is very similar, where she has this power
• 7:04
  Speaker 6: within her of the storm and gathering up right the.
• 7:10
  Speaker 4: Energy of the the nature and all of these things.
• 7:15
  Speaker 6: And in the beginning, it's just happens when she's mad, right,
• 7:18
  Speaker 6: And I don't want to tell the story, but you know,
• 7:20
  Speaker 6: she learns about herself and about her powers. And what
• 7:25
  Speaker 6: was really cool about what I found out after I
• 7:29
  Speaker 6: wrote that article is that who Alphabe's character is fashioned after,
• 7:37
  Speaker 6: which is Matilda Jocelyn Gage.
• 7:40
  Speaker 4: That's Tilly in Shallow Waters. That's Matilda Joscelyn Gage.
• 7:44
  Speaker 6: Like when I was doing like the research and everything,
• 7:46
  Speaker 6: and I was like, I like this woman, Like she
• 7:49
  Speaker 6: was like she was like fighting. She was a white woman,
• 7:54
  Speaker 6: she was a suffragette. She fought for black and indigenous rights.
• 7:59
  Speaker 4: She fought for even.
• 8:03
  Speaker 6: Child slavery as far as like trafficking back then.
• 8:07
  Speaker 4: She did so many things. And I was like, I
• 8:09
  Speaker 4: like this woman. So I made her Tilly and she
• 8:12
  Speaker 4: that's who Alphabe is. Fashion had no idea.
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: How you talking about the sixteenth Truths.
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: A little bit?
• 8:20
  Speaker 6: Oh oh listen, okay. I put that onto my Instagram
• 8:25
  Speaker 6: because I'm not a I would say I don't know
• 8:34
  Speaker 6: everything about Epha, right, I know, like one like one
• 8:39
  Speaker 6: of the truths that is very important is know thyself, right,
• 8:43
  Speaker 6: like really knowing yourself even before you find what arisha.
• 8:48
  Speaker 4: So the orishas are like.
• 8:51
  Speaker 6: The the energies that represent the different than natural forces
• 8:56
  Speaker 6: in the world.
• 8:57
  Speaker 4: So this is.
• 8:58
  Speaker 6: She's of storm weather, yama Yah was the ocean, right,
• 9:03
  Speaker 6: And so they're not necessarily gods and goddesses. I just
• 9:06
  Speaker 6: we just say that for the purpose here, right, So
• 9:09
  Speaker 6: they're they're more like spirits. And so even before you
• 9:13
  Speaker 6: really know who's on your head, that's what they will say,
• 9:16
  Speaker 6: who's on your head?
• 9:17
  Speaker 4: Like what Arisha rules.
• 9:19
  Speaker 6: You, You have to know yourself and so really connecting
• 9:25
  Speaker 6: to yourself and your ancestors and what you were born
• 9:29
  Speaker 6: for and so that you know, to me would be
• 9:33
  Speaker 6: one of the most important truths in EVA.
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: When you were growing up, did you know you wanted to.
• 9:38
  Speaker 4: Be a writer, Let me tell you.
• 9:41
  Speaker 3: Just just just scroll and I see you a tap dancer.
• 9:43
  Speaker 3: You're you know you do so much? Did you know
• 9:46
  Speaker 3: that you wanted to be an.
• 9:46
  Speaker 6: Art So I I was a like math and science nerd,
• 9:52
  Speaker 6: Like I went to UC Berkeley. I went to UC
• 9:55
  Speaker 6: Berkeley with my bestie Risha Rocks here and she actually
• 9:59
  Speaker 6: did my makeup, so and I did civil engineering. So
• 10:06
  Speaker 6: I was very much like math science nerd. But I
• 10:10
  Speaker 6: always love storytelling and I am dyslexic, so I actually
• 10:17
  Speaker 6: didn't think I could be a writer like that wasn't
• 10:20
  Speaker 6: really like I was, like, I can't spell shit, you know,
• 10:23
  Speaker 6: Like I'm like, fuck, yeah, okay, And so I didn't
• 10:30
  Speaker 6: think I could.
• 10:31
  Speaker 4: Be a writer until my senior year.
• 10:33
  Speaker 6: They're like, Anita, if you don't take Freshman English, you're
• 10:36
  Speaker 6: not going to graduate.
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: And I was like, I got to take fresh freshman all.
• 10:40
  Speaker 6: The way through without doing it, yes, because I had
• 10:42
  Speaker 6: you know, I was doing crazy math classes, science all
• 10:45
  Speaker 6: of that.
• 10:46
  Speaker 4: And they're like, you.
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: Need to take Freshman Fail for freshman year.
• 10:49
  Speaker 4: You're not going to graduate.
• 10:51
  Speaker 6: And so I took the class and I fell in
• 10:54
  Speaker 6: love with it.
• 10:55
  Speaker 4: I fell in love with the storytelling and all.
• 10:58
  Speaker 6: Of that, and so I was like, actually, wait, is
• 11:00
  Speaker 6: this what I want to do? And I loved learning
• 11:03
  Speaker 6: about the African diaspora, the different places within the diaspora,
• 11:07
  Speaker 6: the people, how are we, how are we alike?
• 11:10
  Speaker 4: How are we different? And what wakes up inside of us?
• 11:14
  Speaker 6: Like you can't really describe what wakes up inside of
• 11:17
  Speaker 6: us when we learn more and more about our true ancestry,
• 11:22
  Speaker 6: because it's like you're getting closer and closer to home
• 11:26
  Speaker 6: and there's these energies and people are like, you're glowing.
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: What is that?
• 11:30
  Speaker 6: And so I feel like that's kind of what happened
• 11:34
  Speaker 6: and once I hit that, I was like, oh, I'm
• 11:37
  Speaker 6: a storyteller. I gotta figure this out. I gotta And
• 11:39
  Speaker 6: luckily the world has turned into.
• 11:42
  Speaker 4: A place where I don't have to know how to smell.
• 11:48
  Speaker 5: You know, I want you to go deeper into who
• 11:50
  Speaker 5: oh yeah is right? Because you dedicate the book to
• 11:54
  Speaker 5: a lot of your friends who have experienced, you know,
• 11:56
  Speaker 5: still born births and miscarriages and oh yeah, the African
• 12:00
  Speaker 5: goddess who watches over women who have had still borns
• 12:03
  Speaker 5: and miscarriages.
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: So can you respond on that little yes?
• 12:06
  Speaker 6: That just gave me chills because to know that there
• 12:10
  Speaker 6: is an energy or a goddess out there that is
• 12:13
  Speaker 6: watching over women who have lost children. So I've told
• 12:16
  Speaker 6: you about my time when I went to Peru and
• 12:20
  Speaker 6: I did ahuasca and San Pedro, right, And so when.
• 12:24
  Speaker 4: I did San Pedro, my ancestors came to me san Pedro.
• 12:29
  Speaker 6: So san Pedro is it? I believe it's a cactus
• 12:33
  Speaker 6: and and it's a drugs medical.
• 12:41
  Speaker 4: Medicine, flat medicine.
• 12:43
  Speaker 6: And and so you you go into the space like
• 12:47
  Speaker 6: you just get deeper in touch with this with the
• 12:50
  Speaker 6: energies around. To me, it felt like I was more
• 12:51
  Speaker 6: in touch with the invisible energies that are around. And
• 12:55
  Speaker 6: so my ancestors came to me and they said, what
• 12:58
  Speaker 6: is happening right now is that so many of us
• 13:02
  Speaker 6: are dealing with the loss of children, whether it was
• 13:06
  Speaker 6: us or our ancestors down the line who had lost children,
• 13:10
  Speaker 6: lost children through through death, through being taken away in
• 13:15
  Speaker 6: during slavery. So many people are suffering from that that
• 13:20
  Speaker 6: we're trying to hold on to everything. So that's why
• 13:23
  Speaker 6: people have clutter, that's why people think they have to
• 13:25
  Speaker 6: keep things and like as if we can own anything ever, right,
• 13:31
  Speaker 6: And so that's what the ancestors told me. And so
• 13:33
  Speaker 6: then when I found out that Oya watches over women
• 13:37
  Speaker 6: who had lost babies in any form, right like the stillbirths, miscarriages,
• 13:46
  Speaker 6: even abortions, right Like, it's like you've lost a child,
• 13:52
  Speaker 6: and she helps with the healing, and she helps with
• 13:58
  Speaker 6: you know, getting us because she is the goddess of
• 14:01
  Speaker 6: the storm, she's the goddess of transformation.
• 14:04
  Speaker 4: So she moves things around so that.
• 14:10
  Speaker 6: If there is a healing like that that needs to happen,
• 14:13
  Speaker 6: because that's such a deep wound, she comes and she
• 14:19
  Speaker 6: blows the shit away, so that so that you can heal.
• 14:22
  Speaker 7: It's crazy because in your writing a lot of times
• 14:25
  Speaker 7: I can relate it to things like how you talked
• 14:27
  Speaker 7: about like the black eyed peas and the fried chicken,
• 14:29
  Speaker 7: and I'm like, oh, yeah, that's what they were doing.
• 14:31
  Speaker 7: But with that, I couldn't relate it to anything. And
• 14:33
  Speaker 7: I'm like, I don't think I've ever had a conversation
• 14:35
  Speaker 7: in my family just about what happens if you have
• 14:37
  Speaker 7: a miscarriage and how you feel.
• 14:39
  Speaker 4: I don't even know.
• 14:40
  Speaker 7: I'm sure it has happened, but I don't know any
• 14:42
  Speaker 7: close family mermors that I've ever talked to me about it.
• 14:43
  Speaker 6: Yeah, because people don't talk about it, and they definitely have, right,
• 14:48
  Speaker 6: like someone has.
• 14:49
  Speaker 4: It's in all of our families, right.
• 14:51
  Speaker 6: If it hasn't happened to you, it's like happened to someone.
• 14:54
  Speaker 4: Who's close to you.
• 14:56
  Speaker 6: And it's a lot of times people just go through
• 15:00
  Speaker 6: through it in silence and go to work right in
• 15:02
  Speaker 6: a couple of days and not you know, like not
• 15:05
  Speaker 6: be able to deal with it. And we know that
• 15:08
  Speaker 6: if we hide things away, they just keep growing and
• 15:11
  Speaker 6: growing and growing. And so it's so important to have
• 15:16
  Speaker 6: a place and a way to heal from these things.
• 15:20
  Speaker 6: And I'm also a spiritual psychologist, so I do deal
• 15:25
  Speaker 6: with people in that way. As far as guiding people
• 15:28
  Speaker 6: through trauma and things like that, I do it with
• 15:31
  Speaker 6: the Goddess Wisdom Counsel.
• 15:33
  Speaker 4: We have a retreat that's coming up in Costa Rica.
• 15:38
  Speaker 6: So a lot of times I work with women who
• 15:42
  Speaker 6: have experienced some form of sexual trauma.
• 15:45
  Speaker 4: That's one of my things that I work with a lot.
• 15:49
  Speaker 4: And what is interesting with.
• 15:53
  Speaker 6: That too is that it's not always directly like a
• 15:56
  Speaker 6: woman can be like, oh my gosh, I don't remember
• 15:59
  Speaker 6: anything happening to me, but I noticed the way I act,
• 16:03
  Speaker 6: it's as if something happened. So it could be something
• 16:05
  Speaker 6: that she doesn't remember, or it could be something that
• 16:07
  Speaker 6: happened in her family line. Because if it did happen
• 16:11
  Speaker 6: to her grandmother, right, like she's passing it down Like
• 16:14
  Speaker 6: what's inside of us is what was in our ancestors.
• 16:17
  Speaker 4: So here's you know.
• 16:19
  Speaker 7: Can you break down the parallels that you make with
• 16:21
  Speaker 7: Oya in the Black Woman trope Angry Black Woman? And
• 16:25
  Speaker 7: then you talk about duality too, because you talk about
• 16:27
  Speaker 7: how the hurricanes are like so strong and people hate them.
• 16:30
  Speaker 7: But then after sometimes they reveal beautiful things, people come
• 16:32
  Speaker 7: together to get through them.
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 16:34
  Speaker 6: Yes, So that was actually one of the things that
• 16:36
  Speaker 6: came up for me with Oya a lot, because I
• 16:39
  Speaker 6: was actually kind of afraid at first to write about
• 16:43
  Speaker 6: her because I was like, Oh, Oya scares me a
• 16:47
  Speaker 6: little bit.
• 16:47
  Speaker 4: She's a beast.
• 16:48
  Speaker 6: She's an unbeatable warrior. Like that's who she is. She's
• 16:51
  Speaker 6: an unbeatable warrior, Like, don't fuck with her. And I
• 16:54
  Speaker 6: was like, oh, I'm a little scared to write about Oya.
• 16:57
  Speaker 6: And then when I started like learning about her and
• 17:00
  Speaker 6: writing about her and listening to her, I was like,
• 17:03
  Speaker 6: oh shit, it's like the angry black woman. Like people
• 17:08
  Speaker 6: being afraid of the angry black woman. I was like,
• 17:11
  Speaker 6: she's not angry, she's just powerful. And just because you
• 17:14
  Speaker 6: can't handle it right, just because they you know, just
• 17:17
  Speaker 6: because I couldn't handle it right, Like from from what
• 17:21
  Speaker 6: I thought about her, it was.
• 17:23
  Speaker 4: Like, No, she is just powerful.
• 17:25
  Speaker 6: And I think it's that misunderstanding that, like people misunderstand
• 17:31
  Speaker 6: that like a black person, a black woman is just
• 17:35
  Speaker 6: saying what she needs. Oh she's angry, right, She's just
• 17:40
  Speaker 6: telling people that she doesn't like something. Oh she's angry,
• 17:43
  Speaker 6: And we know, other people say that they don't like
• 17:46
  Speaker 6: things all the time, y.
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: Wh white people, especially white men.
• 17:51
  Speaker 5: Exactly do you think that these these uh, these these
• 17:55
  Speaker 5: these goddesses possess you when you're writing, Like do they
• 17:58
  Speaker 5: are they like guiding you?
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: Like, OK, hey, I need you to tell this story
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: about me, so.
• 18:02
  Speaker 6: I gotta tell you something, because yes, I had an
• 18:05
  Speaker 6: experience like that, so I didn't necessarily feel like that.
• 18:09
  Speaker 6: So with Yemy, I felt like she was sitting at
• 18:11
  Speaker 6: the edge of my bed right telling me with oh yeah,
• 18:14
  Speaker 6: I wasn't sure.
• 18:15
  Speaker 4: I couldn't quite.
• 18:16
  Speaker 6: I didn't feel like I was possessed. But at the end,
• 18:20
  Speaker 6: when I finished writing, I like that. After I wrote
• 18:23
  Speaker 6: the last word, I was like.
• 18:24
  Speaker 4: Let me go downstairs.
• 18:26
  Speaker 6: I put on some music and I started dancing, and
• 18:29
  Speaker 6: all of a sudden, I just started balling crying and
• 18:33
  Speaker 6: it felt like she was coming out of me, Like
• 18:36
  Speaker 6: it was just like and I don't know where these
• 18:37
  Speaker 6: tears were coming from. It was just like sh and
• 18:42
  Speaker 6: I was just like, oh my gosh, was shent. It
• 18:46
  Speaker 6: didn't feel like it. I don't know, I don't know
• 18:49
  Speaker 6: what it feels like to be possessed, but it didn't
• 18:52
  Speaker 6: feel like it in that way, but it did feel
• 18:55
  Speaker 6: like I was definitely guided. She was telling me the story.
• 18:58
  Speaker 6: She was telling me who needed to be in it.
• 19:01
  Speaker 6: You know, some of the characters I love to work
• 19:04
  Speaker 6: with with historical figures, so like Marie Leveaux and mary
• 19:09
  Speaker 6: Ellen Pleasant. So Ellen is named Ellen. Mary Ellen Pleasant
• 19:13
  Speaker 6: is Ellen in the book because sometimes she was people
• 19:16
  Speaker 6: called her Ellen or Mammy Pleasant. But anyway, when I
• 19:21
  Speaker 6: was looking up Mary Ellen Pleasant, I was like, who
• 19:25
  Speaker 6: is this woman? How Come I don't know about her
• 19:28
  Speaker 6: before Madam C J.
• 19:29
  Speaker 4: Walker. She was.
• 19:32
  Speaker 6: She was the first self made millionaire woman. And this
• 19:36
  Speaker 6: is not just black women, it's women. She's the first
• 19:40
  Speaker 6: one before Madam C. J.
• 19:42
  Speaker 4: Walker. And I was like, how come I.
• 19:44
  Speaker 6: Didn't learn about her? Was because she was a voodoo queen.
• 19:47
  Speaker 6: I don't want to teach that in school. She was
• 19:49
  Speaker 6: also a madam. That's not how she made like most
• 19:53
  Speaker 6: of her money, but she.
• 19:55
  Speaker 4: Found co founded Bank of California, which is now Wells Fargo.
• 20:00
  Speaker 6: She's like, did so many things invested in, like.
• 20:05
  Speaker 4: In gold, silver, a lot of real estate.
• 20:11
  Speaker 6: And the thing is while she was doing this, because
• 20:14
  Speaker 6: of the time, she was pretending that she was a
• 20:17
  Speaker 6: mammy so she was pretending that she was the help, right,
• 20:21
  Speaker 6: so she would dress up like the help.
• 20:24
  Speaker 4: She had a thirty room mansion.
• 20:27
  Speaker 6: When people came by, she would pretend she was the help,
• 20:30
  Speaker 6: and then she would like serve.
• 20:32
  Speaker 4: The white men would be.
• 20:34
  Speaker 6: Talking about the investments they're making, and she would take
• 20:37
  Speaker 6: that and go do her inside training training.
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: She was like the spook who sat by the door and.
• 20:42
  Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, and so she was amazing and I was like,
• 20:46
  Speaker 6: why how come I don't know about her? And so
• 20:48
  Speaker 6: when I was studying about her, I saw that she
• 20:51
  Speaker 6: studied under Marie Levau, and so that's kind.
• 20:53
  Speaker 4: Of where I got all of the characters and Marie Lavaux,
• 20:57
  Speaker 4: Oh my gosh.
• 20:58
  Speaker 6: When I went to New Orleans to learn about learn
• 21:02
  Speaker 6: more about her, I had a tour guide and he
• 21:07
  Speaker 6: was like, so, what do you guys think when we
• 21:10
  Speaker 6: when I say voodoo and we're like, okay, African religion,
• 21:13
  Speaker 6: you know, honoring ancestors. And he was like, oh, thank god,
• 21:17
  Speaker 6: I don't have to, like, you know, break down what
• 21:20
  Speaker 6: it is, because he's like most people you say voodoo,
• 21:22
  Speaker 6: they're like dark magic, you know, evil like all this stuff.
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: Well, from Socaculine, we say roots, yes, roots on you.
• 21:29
  Speaker 4: Yes, exactly right.
• 21:31
  Speaker 6: And so so when I learned about her through his eyes,
• 21:37
  Speaker 6: you know she's she's a healer, right, she's most of
• 21:40
  Speaker 6: the people who have actually met her and talked about her,
• 21:44
  Speaker 6: they were saying how she helped them and how she
• 21:47
  Speaker 6: was a healer.
• 21:48
  Speaker 4: And then you know, in stories in.
• 21:51
  Speaker 6: Pop culture, she's still like seen as like a voodoo
• 21:54
  Speaker 6: queen who drank baby's blood. But none of that, I mean,
• 21:59
  Speaker 6: as far as I know, none of that happened.
• 22:01
  Speaker 5: When I read Shallow Waters, you know, four or five
• 22:04
  Speaker 5: years ago, whenever it was I didn't know it was
• 22:06
  Speaker 5: going to end up being a trilogy.
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: Did you know that?
• 22:09
  Speaker 4: I didn't know it.
• 22:10
  Speaker 6: But people kept going, it's a trilogy, and I was like, no, no,
• 22:15
  Speaker 6: it's done, the story finished, it's done.
• 22:19
  Speaker 4: People so many people they're like, it's a trilogy. It's
• 22:22
  Speaker 4: a trilogy.
• 22:22
  Speaker 6: Did you say that to me?
• 22:24
  Speaker 4: I remember, But trilogy? I wonder what, I don't know,
• 22:28
  Speaker 4: why doesn't it keep going on?
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: So? Well?
• 22:31
  Speaker 6: The Daughter of three Waters, let me tell you where
• 22:33
  Speaker 6: that comes from. Because in Cuba, and usually you have
• 22:38
  Speaker 6: just the two orishas on your head, a male and
• 22:41
  Speaker 6: a female, and so that would be who like kind
• 22:44
  Speaker 6: of rules.
• 22:44
  Speaker 4: You or rules kind of the energies of your life.
• 22:51
  Speaker 6: And they have one thing in Cuba where if it
• 22:55
  Speaker 6: feels like you have Yameya and Oshoon, they'll say, oh,
• 23:01
  Speaker 6: that's a daughter of two waters because you can have
• 23:05
  Speaker 6: that in Cuba.
• 23:07
  Speaker 4: Everywhere else they don't really have that.
• 23:09
  Speaker 6: And so I was like, oh, well, Oya feels like
• 23:12
  Speaker 6: water for me too, So that's why I made that
• 23:15
  Speaker 6: up Daughter of three Waters.
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: So do you know what the third installment is going
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: to be about?
• 23:19
  Speaker 4: I do?
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: Okay, so I do.
• 23:24
  Speaker 6: I mean it's most people probably will figure out that
• 23:28
  Speaker 6: it is Oshoon, so it will be Oshoon, and I
• 23:32
  Speaker 6: do have the story.
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: But ocean sitting on the edge of your bed or
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: she is?
• 23:39
  Speaker 5: She is?
• 23:40
  Speaker 6: Wait okay wait, I'm trying to think if I should
• 23:42
  Speaker 6: be sharing this yet.
• 23:44
  Speaker 4: Probably not.
• 23:46
  Speaker 5: Okay, let's focus on the window telling you it's out
• 23:48
  Speaker 5: right now. You said something in your dedications that I
• 23:50
  Speaker 5: found interesting too. You said, uh, you said your mom, dad,
• 23:54
  Speaker 5: and sisters for putting up with you as a child.
• 23:57
  Speaker 5: Then you shouted out your children for putting up with
• 23:59
  Speaker 5: you as an adult. Is there anything from your childhood
• 24:02
  Speaker 5: that you have bought with you into adulthood that made
• 24:05
  Speaker 5: you say adulthood.
• 24:09
  Speaker 4: I was definitely like this as a child. I mean
• 24:12
  Speaker 4: I was.
• 24:12
  Speaker 6: I was very introverted though I was quiet, but I
• 24:15
  Speaker 6: was very much in my own world, like in this
• 24:18
  Speaker 6: magical world all the time. And for my kids, I'm
• 24:22
  Speaker 6: kind of more like one of the kids. It's not
• 24:25
  Speaker 6: necessarily how I thought I would adult. I thought I
• 24:28
  Speaker 6: was going to be a little bit more strict.
• 24:29
  Speaker 4: My mom.
• 24:30
  Speaker 6: She's amazing, but she was definitely strict with us as well.
• 24:34
  Speaker 4: Mom, I love you.
• 24:35
  Speaker 6: That's she's amazing. But you know, I couldn't fuck around, right.
• 24:42
  Speaker 4: I thought I was going to be like that, and.
• 24:45
  Speaker 6: You know, I tried to be stricted for one second
• 24:48
  Speaker 6: and to see, like, like my kid, the way they
• 24:52
  Speaker 6: responded to it, I.
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: Was like, no, they don't take it serious.
• 24:54
  Speaker 4: This is no, they don't.
• 24:56
  Speaker 6: The artists as well, like they are, well, my two
• 24:59
  Speaker 6: girls are, and then my son is math science.
• 25:03
  Speaker 4: Yeah yeah.
• 25:04
  Speaker 6: And my oldest one, Sadie, she's she's twenty, she's at NYU.
• 25:10
  Speaker 4: She's like doing film.
• 25:12
  Speaker 6: And then Tila is a senior in high school and
• 25:16
  Speaker 6: really into singing.
• 25:17
  Speaker 4: She's actually yo.
• 25:19
  Speaker 6: Which I got to talk to you about she is
• 25:21
  Speaker 6: writing the songs for Shallow Waters the musical, and I
• 25:26
  Speaker 6: like she came in, you know, I was like, she's
• 25:29
  Speaker 6: seventeen year old. I was like, okay, yeah, She's like
• 25:31
  Speaker 6: I have a song and that I want to sing
• 25:32
  Speaker 6: to you.
• 25:33
  Speaker 4: I had chills.
• 25:35
  Speaker 6: I was like, oh, let's do it, Lin Manuel, where
• 25:37
  Speaker 6: are you wanted to be a music yo? When she
• 25:40
  Speaker 6: sang the things, I was like, yo, ye, you don't
• 25:45
  Speaker 6: even know. I was like, okay, we're doing this, let
• 25:47
  Speaker 6: me let me find Lyn Manuel. So so she's into
• 25:52
  Speaker 6: like like the definitely into the arts.
• 25:56
  Speaker 4: And then my son Mayan is math sciences.
• 25:59
  Speaker 6: He told me he can't imagine a world where he's
• 26:01
  Speaker 6: not figuring something out like math wise. So they're all
• 26:05
  Speaker 6: like parts of me right, Like yeah.
• 26:12
  Speaker 5: But you know, it's interesting because when you talk about
• 26:15
  Speaker 5: these books being filmed, if you've ever read Shallow Water,
• 26:17
  Speaker 5: if you read The Wind on Her Tongue, you're going
• 26:19
  Speaker 5: to feel like you're, you know, watching a motion picture.
• 26:23
  Speaker 5: Like that's how much this stuff pops out, you know,
• 26:26
  Speaker 5: on the page. So I know that's the next evolution
• 26:28
  Speaker 5: of these stories. Yeah, they're going to be on the
• 26:30
  Speaker 5: big screen or the small screen. They're going to be
• 26:32
  Speaker 5: on the screen.
• 26:32
  Speaker 7: Yeah yeah, Noah, going back Cooks to something you said
• 26:35
  Speaker 7: about Woodoo. What point in the world did that switch?
• 26:37
  Speaker 7: Because like even when you're talking about it, I'm like, ooh,
• 26:40
  Speaker 7: I'm saying his word so much as like a no no,
• 26:42
  Speaker 7: especially around like your older older pogeam. When did it
• 26:45
  Speaker 7: switch from like these people were healers roots to this
• 26:48
  Speaker 7: is bad, stay away from it.
• 26:50
  Speaker 4: You're possessed and you can't watch scary movies?
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: Like when did that switch?
• 26:53
  Speaker 6: So that switched all during slavery when when the Africans
• 26:58
  Speaker 6: were enslaved, so they needed to keep us away from
• 27:01
  Speaker 6: our religions, they needed to keep us away from our spirituality,
• 27:05
  Speaker 6: from our language, and so in order to do that,
• 27:10
  Speaker 6: it's they demonized it. And not only that, if you
• 27:13
  Speaker 6: practiced it, a lot of people were killed or beaten,
• 27:17
  Speaker 6: and so all of these things were like like just
• 27:21
  Speaker 6: kind of like I guess beaten into us, right, And
• 27:26
  Speaker 6: then there was a point where the fact that it survived, right,
• 27:33
  Speaker 6: like what you resist persists, right, Like you can't beat
• 27:38
  Speaker 6: shit out of people.
• 27:39
  Speaker 4: It just doesn't work.
• 27:41
  Speaker 6: Like the more you try to do that, the more
• 27:43
  Speaker 6: the person becomes stronger. In that and so it's like this,
• 27:48
  Speaker 6: these these spirituality, the religion, all of these things survived
• 27:54
  Speaker 6: these these times.
• 27:55
  Speaker 4: And a lot of times they.
• 27:59
  Speaker 6: Kind of hit it behind Catholicism because Catholicism works with saints, right,
• 28:06
  Speaker 6: and so each candle right, like it would be a
• 28:09
  Speaker 6: certain saint, but they'd be like, oh yeah, but this
• 28:11
  Speaker 6: is actually Aya behind this saint. And so they were
• 28:14
  Speaker 6: able to work with their religion through Catholicism.
• 28:19
  Speaker 3: All right, Well, the new book, The Wind on Her
• 28:21
  Speaker 3: Tongue is out right now, pick it up.
• 28:24
  Speaker 5: It's available via Black Privilege. Simon and Schues to publishing man.
• 28:28
  Speaker 5: And you know, Anita is, how do you feel for
• 28:31
  Speaker 5: your second book? You know, you wrote Shallow Waters. How
• 28:33
  Speaker 5: does this feel? They have another book?
• 28:35
  Speaker 4: It feels so good?
• 28:37
  Speaker 6: Like, I feel so grateful to you, like the fact
• 28:42
  Speaker 6: that you saw me, you recognize me, you recognize the work,
• 28:45
  Speaker 6: you recognize the words that needed to be out there,
• 28:47
  Speaker 6: the stories that needed to be out there. I feel
• 28:50
  Speaker 6: so grateful that I'm able to get these stories out
• 28:54
  Speaker 6: into the public. And I would say that's how I feel, deep,
• 29:00
  Speaker 6: deep gratitude.
• 29:02
  Speaker 5: So if you're looking for some escapism rooted in some realism,
• 29:07
  Speaker 5: The Wind on Her Tongue by Nita Copax is available
• 29:10
  Speaker 5: right now everywhere you buy books, and the audiobook is
• 29:12
  Speaker 5: read by your sister.
• 29:13
  Speaker 6: It is audiobook is read by my sister, Michelle Copatch.
• 29:19
  Speaker 6: And also shout out to YACHTI for bringing us together.
• 29:24
  Speaker 6: And she wanted to try to come to but she
• 29:27
  Speaker 6: wasn't able to.
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: So yes and tonight.
• 29:31
  Speaker 5: We will be at green Light Bookstores, Yes, seven thirty pm.
• 29:36
  Speaker 4: It's on Fulton, Brooklyn. Yes, it's on Fulton.
• 29:38
  Speaker 5: Street, so we'll be there tonight at seven thirty pm
• 29:41
  Speaker 5: having a conversation about The Wind on Her Tongue. So
• 29:44
  Speaker 5: we'll see all there tonight, green Light Bookstore in Brooklyn,
• 29:47
  Speaker 5: seven thirty pm.
• 29:48
  Speaker 3: Pick up the book now, and we appreciate you for
• 29:50
  Speaker 3: joining us this morning. Nita Copax Breakfast Club, Good morning,
• 29:54
  Speaker 3: wake that ass up in the morning.
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: Breakfast Club