Latest / Luke's English Podcast / JRE MMA Show _183 with Rico Verhoeven

Transcript

JRE MMA Show _183 with Rico Verhoeven · Luke's English Podcast

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Podcast check it out. But Joe Logan Experience Trained by Day,
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: Joe Rogan Podcast, by Night, all day. Good to see
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: a champion, Yes, sir, we were just trying to figure
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: out how long it's been. What year? When was the
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: last one we did together. I think it was twenty seventeen,
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: almost ten years, yeah, or maybe it might have been sixteen.
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think, yes, it was it really no. Yeah, Wow,
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: he's got it having like maybe we just got punched
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: it ahead a little bit.
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: A little bit. Well, listen, man, I want to tell
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: you that that fight with Usik was one of the
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: craziest things that I've ever seen in my life. Never
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: in my life did I think a guy who would
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: go straight from kickboxing. Did you have any professional boxing matches?
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: One one one professional?
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: I've been boxing for fifteen years of course. Well.
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: Also, you're arguably the greatest kickboxer of all time.
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you appreciate that.
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: And you have a fight with arguably the greatest boxer
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: in the heavyweight division ever. He's in the conversation, the
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: conversation if the greatest boxer in the heavyweight division ever,
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: and you won ten fucking rounds, man, you won ten rounds.
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: I mean, I don't give a fuck what those judges
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: were saying. Those judges were trying to say it was close,
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: like it was almost like you were up. I think
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: one of them had you up by one round and
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: but the other ones had a draw.
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's.
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: That's a crime. If that went to scorecards and somehow
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: know that you lost that decision, that would have been
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: a crime, a crime.
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: I know. And I gotta be honest, I think like
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: we're straight jumping into it, so and like, uh, I
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: think that's that's the hard part of it. It's like
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: I don't like losing, but if it happens, it happens.
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: But I think that's the part that that makes it
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: even harder that it felt so injust and.
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: It felt injust the stoppage felt injust it didn't seem
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: like it made sense, but looking for a way to
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: stop the fight exactly.
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: But next to that, like you say this as a
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: combat sports commentated for years, and breaking you've been doing,
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: You've been in the sport for so many years, and
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: all other professional boxers and commodators, et cetera, they all
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: see the fight a certain way like you saw it,
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: Like how I experienced it, and then when we look
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: at the scorecards, we get like a totally different fight,
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: Like what what is going on that? And that is
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: for me where the toughness is of the whole experience.
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: Right, It's very difficult to accept. And if you had
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: lost by decision, it would have been insanitay and we've
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: seen those insane decisions before and I never know what's
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: going on, you know. I don't want to think it's corruption,
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: but it's almost worse if it's in competence. If you
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: have someone who's judging a fight which is like the
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: most pivotal fight arguably of your career. You think about
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: how long you've been raining as a heavyweight champion of
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: kickboxing for like a decade, which is crazy. At the
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: highest level, especially at the heavyweight division, it is so
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: hard to stay at the top. Nobody does everybody's like
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: even in the UFC, it's like won two fights and
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: then they fall off. If you do be the heavyweight
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: champion and have fucking wars like Jamal Benzediq that fight,
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: like some of these fights that you had wars, and
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: to come out on top every single fucking time, and
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: then you have this enormous fight and you.
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: Have terrible judging.
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: Terrible judging, and it's like it's almost worse if it's
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: in competence, because if you've got these people that don't
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: know what they're watching and they're calling like their eyes,
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: their decision makes a difference. But whether it's a W
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: or an L, and it doesn't make any sense. It's
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: not fair, it's not right. I think at this point
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: in time, they should really seriously consider having alternative scoring.
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: I think there should be more. One of the things
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: I like about Glory is that Glory has more than
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: three judges. What are they have four or five? Five?
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: I think five is the right number. I think three
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: is too few because you could have two people fuck
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: it up and one person gets it right and then
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: but if you have two more judges, the odds are
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: they're going to get it right too. They're usually the
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: people that fuck it up. It's the minority.
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: But if you ask me, like next to us as
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: athletes putting our health on the line, which makes it
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: very very hearting to cope with, but also for the
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: people watching to fight right, it's like it, like you said,
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: it feels in just and I definitely feel like, especially
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: in the time that we're in now, everybody wants transparency.
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: If we look at the World Cup that just finished,
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: like even there, when something happens, the referee is still
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: a person. He can make a mistake. He can look
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: at the file and he' like I saw it this way.
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: But now what they're doing. They're looking at the var
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: they're looking at the cameras and multiple people are looking
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: at it and like, hey, we can interpret it the
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: rules like this because this happened. We can see this
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: and this is wrong. So even it's going to be
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: a card or it's going to be a penalty or whatever,
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: there is this is what's happening. But within this situation,
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: it's just like if you ask me, and it's still possible.
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: It's a human being. The referee made a mistake, and
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: that is possible. But there's should be people or a
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: situation where it's like, hey, sorry, ref but you made
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: a mistake. This is this wasn't the right call, so
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: we can overturn it in a second.
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: The only thing that's really hard to do with that
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: subjectively is fight stoppages, because sometimes at least an mm A,
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: a referee sees things in a fighter that you might
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: not see things watching on television or sitting at my
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: seat as a commentator. A referee will see guy's eyes
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: roll back in his head. He'll see something that I
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: don't see, and I'll go, oh, I thought that was
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: a little quick. And then but they're right on top
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: of it. They see, they see certain things that you
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: might not be able.
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: But that's the thing we uh, I appeal it, I
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: appeal it, and and everything we appealed upon we got.
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: They said, like, you guys were right. We got stopped
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: after the bell, yes, the right after the after the stoppage,
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: the doctor game, he's I wasn't disorientated. I didn't have
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: no concussion or whatever symptoms. So everything everything we got,
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: they they're like, no, you're right, you're right, you're right.
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: But they never overturned. Also, how would they overturn it?
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: Would they go to the judges' scorecards. And if they
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: did go to the judge scorecards, what would it be
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: a majority draw? Because if if you are down or
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: you are you're even on both cards and then up
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: on one. And then did they count the knockdowns in
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: the final round, because if they did, you might've lost
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: that fight. Which is even crazier.
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but then but then you have something like, hey, guys,
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: let's look at the scoring cards again. And that's like
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: another that other people, other judges look at the scorecards
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: and look at the fight and score it again.
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: Because well, here's why you can make any sense. Here's
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: where you know it's crazy. It was the most competitive
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: fight of Usik's career as a heavyweight champion. Yeah, and
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: they're not even talking at all about it match. No,
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: that's kind of crazy, right, You're not kinda crazy. They're
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: saying Deontay Wilder, which all loved Deontay, but Deontay is
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: not Deontay Wilder of two thousand and nineteen. No, he's
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: a different guy.
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: Now that's a good that's a good thing that you
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: just brought that up. Because before this fight, you heard
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: the whole conversation. Okay, we're gonna do Rico. After that,
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: I want to fight the winner of Dubois Wardley, and
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: after that, I want to fight Tyson Fury again. The
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: other two you're not in the conversation anymore. So, without
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: taking too much credit for it, I think like with
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: this fight, he saw like, hmm, this was a little
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: harder than I expected. So let's take it. Let's take
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: a different route. And for me, I don't want to
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: rematch just to have the rematch. I would like the
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: rematch because it makes sense. There's a story within this remax.
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: It's huge, and it's something that it is unfinished business.
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: Yes, and it's a Rocky store. It's live rock store
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: one hundred percent.
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: And that's why for me, where I'm looking at now,
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: I'm like in the fall of my or maybe in
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: the winter of my career as an athlete, and I
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: just want to do big fights that makes sense. And
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: then you're like, ooh, this is what I will knowing.
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: That as a promoter, what makes more sense than that fight?
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: The Deontay Wilder fight. Again, all respected, Deontay. I love
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: that guy. It's one of the greatest knock in the
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: history of the headweight division. He's not the same guy. He's
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: not the same guy for whatever reason. It happens to everybody. Right,
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: I think he's forty now, right, it happens to everybody.
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: You just got off of a crazy performance and the
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: whole world got to see it. If any fight warrants
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: a rematch, it's that fight. That fucking rematch would be gigantic.
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: It would be so huge. It's the ultimate Rocky story.
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: I was watching that fight on the edge of my
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: see the fight starts, I'm like, how's this going to
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: go down? How's this going to go down? I'm like, WHOA.
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: First of all, I'm like, oh ship, Rico's fucking youh
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: You realize how big you are, and you know, Usik
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: is a cruiserweight. He's a cruiserway to put on. He
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: could still make cruiser if he wanted to, wanted to
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: get really lean, he could still make cruiser easily. You're
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: way bigger, bigger than him. I'm like, that's a giant factor.
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: And then it's your experience, your World championship level experience.
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: You've been in so many big fights. Still looks so
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: calm and so relaxed and so in the moment, and
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: I was like, holy shit, he might pull it off.
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: And then he got into like the third, fourth, and
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: fifth round. I'm like, I don't see this changing. I'm like,
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: this is crazy.
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: If you're the commentators, they were like, Okay, Rico's moving
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: a lot, and he's fainting, and he's doing this, and
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: he's doing that. But how long can he keep this up?
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: Well, they don't know about your car exactly.
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: There was there was one comentator that that they also
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: commentated for Glory.
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: Well, Alster Closter was there.
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he was also there. He was also there. But
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: the commentator for Glory that he knew like that cardio wise,
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: I live in the gym, that's what. And you know
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: as well, like I love this, so I don't. I'm
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: never gonna lose on on cardio because then I lose
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: for myself.
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: So you're an anomaly in terms of like two hundred
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: and sixty pound men. There's very few guys that are
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: as big as you to push a pace like you did.
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: So I wasn't when they were saying that, I was like,
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: you got you know, you guys don't understand what you're
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: saying here. I's gonna be able to do this all
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: night long. Yeah, and you know, credit to Usik for
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: finally catching you and rocking you. But the fight was
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: stopped too quickly. It just was and you were still Okay,
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: you got in a world championship fight. That's that close.
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: If it's just not even really that close, you were
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: that far ahead. You got to give someone a chance.
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: But let's let's let's reverse. It's what if he was
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: in this position.
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: There's no Wather would stop that fight, no way. Look,
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: it's either incompetence or corruption, and I tend to think corruption.
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: This is like, I think these guys want to keep
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: judging fights and they want the favor of the promoters
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: and the money is in Usik. Usik is a huge name,
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: He's a he's their big star in the haweight division.
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: They don't want like a guy coming in from different
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: sports and one professional bus exactly and making the biggest
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: making the biggest upset in boxing history. That would be Yeah,
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: that would be pretty crazy.
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: It really almost was the biggest upset in boxing history.
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: I mean it was crazy. It was really crazy to
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: watch Man, But you were the perfect guy to do
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: it because of the pace thing, because of the fact
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: that you are so big and you can push that
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: insane pace and keep it up for each.
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: And game plan wise, we were so smart on the
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: game plan. We did something that he has not seen before,
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: that he has not experienced before, even though he fought
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: the best boxes in the world, but all the boxes.
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: What they were trying to do is out box the
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: heffyweight boxers. We're trying to outbox a cruiserweight. How in
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: the hell are you going to do that? He's lighter,
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: he's smaller, and he's faster, So.
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: How are you gonna supertect?
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: Exactly? So, how are you gonna outbox him? Did you?
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: You just got to have a super strong game plan,
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: and that's what we had.
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: So what when you looked at it when you first
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: got the offer? First of all, how far out did
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: you get the offer? How far out away from the fight?
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: How much time did you prepare?
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: Well? Did you? Did?
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: You?
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: Do? You know the story how I got into this
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: whole thing? No, okay, it's a crazy story. Okay, let
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: me tell you. So it all started with the Canelo
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: Crawford fight and Jason Statham is a good friend of
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: mine and I saw he was in Vegas for that fight.
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: So I texted him. It was like, Yo, you're that
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: for that fight? Oh my god, Yeah, this is gonna
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: be crazy. So we went back and forth. It's like yeah, brother,
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: So he told me, brother, you need to be in boxing.
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: Because he was at the tournament when I did the
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: eight man tournament a few years ago. And so he
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: comes to my fights and he's like, oh, you you
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: gotta be you gotta be in here, you gotta kill
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: these guys. I said, yeah, yeah, I think I could
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: do pretty good. He's like, you know what, I'm gonna
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: throw it out there and let's see what happens. Okay.
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: So that was let me see. There was Vegas time
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: during the day, so Amsterdam time it was nighttime. So
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: the next morning, I'm on the treadmill, I'm running the
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: phone ring Jason. So yo, bro, I'm on the trap
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: and let me call you back. Listen. I put your
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: name out there, I showed your videos and they're going crazy.
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: They want you. So I jumped off. I was like,
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: what do you mean. They said they want to do something,
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: They're gonna call you. I gave them your contact, like okay.
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: So that's that's how it started. A few days later,
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: they called me Rico, we want you to fight blah blah.
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: We love what you do and we want you to
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: fight Anthony Joshua. So I'm like, okay, let's go. I'm
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: ready for this opportunity. But I was on the set
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: of Roadhouse two, so there was like, oh, now we
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: gotta combine everything. I have my trainer coming in like
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: during yeah, during takes and like, okay, we do some
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: padwork and then finally we were supposed to fight in February,
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: so I think the deal came around October, October November,
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: so I had like around ten ten good weeks to
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: train and then finally I finished off the movie in
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: December and he but in between, Joshua got the offer
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: to fight Jake Paul for a crazy amount of money.
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: He was like, of course, right, I'm gonna do that,
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: and then after that, I'm gonna gonna do the Rico fight. Perfect, Okay,
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: he does the Jake Paul fight. Well, that went like
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: low would win, and then they reached out like can
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: we push the fight a little bit instead of February
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: to March? Like I'm good. The more time I get,
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: the better to train to transition into boxing. So that happened,
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: and then the end of the year, like two weeks later,
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: that tragic accident happens, so there was.
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we're talking about Anthony josh Yeah Africa. A terrible
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: car accident.
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, terrible, So that derailed that whole situation. But I
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: had a whole training plan schedule. I was going to Spain,
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: to train there for a month, but I didn't know
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: what was going to happen, so I just did what
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: I had to do and I just continued training, so
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: I wasn't paying training training, training, And then at the
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: end of that training camp, they we were talking about
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: it and they said like, yeah, we don't think And
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: also with with with his manager Eddie Hearn, like, I
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: don't know if he's going to be back soon. So
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: what do you want to do? You want to wait
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: or you want to fight, Like I'm already training, so
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: I would like to fight somebody, But we don't know
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: what makes sense. No, let's think about it. So we
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: thought about We thought about it, They thought about it.
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: This episode is brought to you by square Space. Once
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: you've got a great name for your business, you need
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: a great domain and squarespace makes it easy to lock
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: in a domain. You just search the name you want,
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: buy it, and then you're ready to build. No hidden fees,
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: no weird upsells. Go to squarespace dot com slash rogan
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: for it free trial, and when you are ready to launch,
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: use the code rogan to get ten percent off your
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: first purchase of a website or domain.
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: And then we were talking about, Hey, what about what
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: about Oozik? Does that make sense?
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: Was it your right? Yeah?
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: It was our idea. I'm like, yeah, that makes sense.
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: Why not because he's the he's the tough dog. He's
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: like undisputed ky boxing champion versus the undisputed boxing champion.
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: Like there's a story there. Yeah, It's like, let's just
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: throw it out there. Let's see what they say. Okay,
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: pick up the phone and call them. Yoh yeah, guys, Yeah,
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: we have an idea. So I pitched him the whole
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: idea undisputed for undisputed silence. Oh my god, what did
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: I just do? Then the first thing I hear back,
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: we love it? Whoa? I said, okay, what does that mean?
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: What does that mean? So? Uh so they said, you
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: know what, We're going to talk to team and we're
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: gonna come back to you. So like, and then in
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: two weeks they went to usik usak loft the idea
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: as well. So again big shout out to him for
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: taking that fight as well, because he had hundreds of
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: options and he took this fight outside the box. So
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: I love it. Also to uh to his excellency turkeyla
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: Shike for setting this whole thing up.
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: Oh, he has set up so much, so so important.
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: Super super much respect for both of them, and thankful
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: also to Jason, of course we're setting this whole thing up, yeah,
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: and getting me into yeah, getting me into the conversation.
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: And then like so that was after two weeks, and
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: then two weeks later we were on a FaceTime call
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: for like a minute and yeah. After that they got
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: it done, and then and then then afterwards they said like, oh,
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: it's gonna be a title fight, and then the whole
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: world went crazy, of course, like oh my god, how
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: is this guy gonna go for a Will Tidle fight?
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: It doesn't make any sense. I was just like, let's
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: it go. It shot the world.
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: Well, you know, it's not like you hadn't had a
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: lifetime of striking. It's only the difference is removing the kicks.
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah. But the thing is, like the boxing fans, the
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: straight up boxing fans, they're not too much into M
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: M A and they're definitely not into kickboxing, so they
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: had no clue. They had no clue of like, right,
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: who is this guy? What did he do? That's why.
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: Also the WBC they also had their more tie department,
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: so for them, it made sense. It's like, hey, we
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: Goo with his credentials and what he did into in kickboxing,
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: it makes sense to make it a world championship fight.
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: But we just have to tell the people.
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: Well, you know, it drives me nuts. As a fan
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: of combat sports is also a giant fan of kickboxing.
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: The kickboxing does not get the love that it deserves
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: in America. It doesn't make any sense because in MMA,
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: the casual fans love stand up and when fights go
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: to the ground they boo. So it makes no sense
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: to me how you have boxing huge MMA huge. Kickboxing
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: almost non existent in America. There's no big kickboxing leagues.
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: Because they they want to see, yeah, their own people win.
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: Maybe no, No, it just hasn't been promoted, right, It
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: doesn't make any sense. It makes no sense because their
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: own people don't win in MMA. I mean, there's very
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: few American champions. There is Justin Gatchee and Sean Strickland,
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: and they.
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: Have at least they're really competitive and in key boxing
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: they're right.
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: That's true, but we don't care honestly in the in MMA, no,
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: I mean, Alex Pereira was the biggest star in the sport. Yeah, exactly,
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: but Brazilian doesn't speak English from only speaks Portuguese and
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: whatever other languages, tribal language. And so then you have
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: Islam Katschev's fighting next weekend, huge star. You know from
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: Dakistan that no one in America. All they care, are
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: you the baddest motherfucker on earth? That's all they care.
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: And I really genuinely believe that if someone came along,
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: like I really wish ZUFA would do it, because they're
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: doing it with boxing, they should do with kickboxing, because
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: kickboxing or muay time, whichever they decide. You know, I
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: think is the most exciting stand up sport in the world.
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: I don't think it's even close. I love Glory. I
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: fucking watch it all the time. I watch all the events.
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: It's so exciting, man, it's so fun, and the fights
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: are so chaotic, and if you're a fan, is brutal,
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: brutal and technical at the same time. I mean, some
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: of the most amazing fights. I mean, that's how I
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: knew about Perero's because I was such a huge fan
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: of Glory. When I when he came over to the UFC,
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: I was like, everyone's fucked. I'm like, you don't understand
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: everyone's fucked. This guy's different. Man is he's different, But
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: it was because I knew him so much from kickboxing
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: and he was so exciting in kickboxing. Like kickboxing should
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: be huge in America. It should be, It really should be.
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: And it's it's a part of MMA. So I think a.
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: Lot of a giant part of MMA. The most exciting
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: part of MMA is the kickboxing for sure, makes no sense.
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: It's a it's a it is an untapped market. There's
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: somebody figured it out and dove in and made it.
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: It would be gigantic. It would have to be like
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: the UFC though, because you have to have the kind
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: of publicity machine, the kind of media machine that the
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: UFC has to build up the stories and show these
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: guys and show like all the champions.
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: But I think that's in every big fight and every
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: big organization is where the strength is is the storytelling. Yes,
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: that is where I think where and also if you
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: ask me, like when I was in Glory, where it
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: lacked on experience, Like the storytelling, right, where does this
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: guy come from? What is his background? And like you
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: want to get to know the person instead of just
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: like the guy that throws, punches, and kicks exactly.
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: The UFC does an awesome job with that. They have
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: a whole series called Embedded, So like next week when
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: the I and Gary is all my Catchet fight takes place,
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: they're going to have one on Monday. So you get
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: up Monday morning, you'll be there on YouTube and everybody
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: will watch it and they're like, oh shit, you watched
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: that one. And then you watch the one on Tuesday.
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: You see them training, see him eating, see him in
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: the sauna, cutting way, you see him doing all their
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: press stuff. You see him, you get hyped.
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: Man, you get hyped, but you get drawn into like, oh,
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: this is the guy behind the fighter, and I think
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: that's so much more interesting.
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: And then they have the Countdown Show, which is an
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: hour countdown shows like highly produced and all this different stuff,
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: interviews and conversations with their family. It's fucking amazing and
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: it just gets you so jazzed up for the fight.
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: If the UFC did something like that with kickboxing, I
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: think it will be gigantic. You know, they tried Glory
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: in America for a while. He was doing pretty good
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: on Spike TV. Remember they had the Last Man's Standing tournament.
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: In Los Angeles. I went to that. It was awesome.
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: It's just it just never fucking caught on.
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: No, you know, it was. It was hard, it was
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: it's too bad. So and then after the last few
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: years we were just in Europe, more in the Netherlands
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: to where we Yeah.
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: England one is doing a good job with kickboxing, and
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: I don't know, you don't know.
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I know about them, but I don't.
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: Know at all in the lighterweight divisions because they get
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: a lot of guys from Thailand and a lot of
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: guys from Japan.
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: They're more Asian based, right.
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes, more Asian based, but they have all a
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: lot of stand up fights now, a lot of like
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: either they have muy Thai with MMA gloves on, yeah,
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: in a cage brutal, and then they're also having kickboxing
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: in a cage and kickboxing in a ring. They mix
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: it up between that. Yeah, I mean, I personally think
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: the ring is better. I really do, because I think
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: that there's a lot of weird stuff with the cage,
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: you know, like the cage, especially with m m A.
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: I don't like it because you could you could use
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: it to get back up, you could like get your
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: back against it and pull yourself back up. He'd also
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: use it to take people down. It's harder to take
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: people down with the ring, I believe.
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but that's why it's good for me now, Like, yeah,
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: there was a.
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: Talk about you fighting Derek Lewis. Yeah, I remember that,
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: and then you got this the offer to box and
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: it was so much money.
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: Yes, that's right, that's where it started. So yeah, so
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: we were in talks because I was a free agent.
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: I vacated the belt.
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: How many MMA fights you have you at least one?
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: I wanted one.
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, just one. I did some graph like years ago,
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: but I just have one, wonder a professional MMA fight.
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: So so after that vacating my my belt, I was
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: a free agent. So we were like, okay, let's yeah,
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: dip our toes in different water. Let's see. Yeah, let's
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: see what's what's on the landscape.
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: Now, why did you decide to vacate the belt because
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: you had done everything you needed to do, You cleaned
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: out the division.
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: I did it all. So I was like I wanted
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: I wanted it to make sense. And first we we
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: we talked within the organization of like, hey, I'm looking
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: to do big stuff, different stuff, so like crossover events,
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: because that was getting more and more talked about, like
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: the big crossovers, and I think, yeah, in my opinion,
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: I am one of the baddest men on the planet,
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: so it made sense to do it. But then yeah,
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: within the organization, management, wrong management, like we just yeah,
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: didn't get it. We just didn't get to a place
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: where it worked out. So I was like, okay, let
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: me just leave it. Then, so I left it, and
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: then we talked with UC to see, yeah, what was
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: going on there. But then yeah, I got the other
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: offer and it made more sense.
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: Now was the other offer of one contract fight, one
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: fight contract, so you're free.
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: I'm a free agent together. Wow, So and that's why.
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: Was there any conversation at all about a rematch.
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, right away, his excellency came into the ring and
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: he said, you're gonna fight this guy again. That's the
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: first thing he said. But Coble also came into the ring,
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: the WBC interim champion and now the champion because uh
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: Usik vacated the bell as well, so he also wanted
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: his shot. So there was like a lot of talk
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: and like at that moment, I was there, but it's
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: just like I don't know. It was chaos, Yeah, chaos,
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: And for me, I was just like, wow, did this
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: they just fucked it? Yeah, it just really just happened.
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: And it took. It took me like at least six
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: weeks before I watched the fight back for the very
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: first time. After the fight, wow, because it's it still
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: hurts so so yeah. So now I'm like a free
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: agent and we we got so many we got so
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: many offers.
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: Now what is it like watching it and watching the
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: fight get stopped after the bell?
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: It still hurts. It's still hurts. I'm like, wow, what
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: what did you What did you want want me to do?
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: Do you want me to move around? Do you want
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: me to to punch back or whatever? For me, like
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: you know, I've been in trouble multiple times within my
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: world title kickboxing fights. I was behind multiple times and
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: I still came on came out on top. So there
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: was for me, there's no conversation in like okay, could
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: he continue? Is he going to continue? I never stop?
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: They don't know You exact thing is the conditioning thing,
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: Like your conditioning is so good, you bounce back so quick.
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: And there's been so many times where guys try to
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: empty the tank to put you out. Yeah, and you're
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: not going nowhere.
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: No, And it was just a few seconds and a
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: referee should know that. So next to that, like with
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: all the experience you know that I have within the
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: combat sports, like it's just a few seconds, let it
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: go and let me at least give me the opportunity
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: and give defense the opportunity to see that twelve round
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: So oh, it'd have been so excited. Yeah, oh my god.
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: But also looking now looking back at it, because there
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: was also open scoring. And I love open scoring because
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: within that gives you the right position and gives the
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: fighters a position like okay, where are where where we're
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: standing within this fight. But now look looking back at
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: the fight after eight rounds, because after every four rounds
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: we hear what the scoring is. After eight rounds, my
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: trainer Peter Fury says, Okay, we gotta really start winning
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: these rounds. Now. I was like, I'm I was like,
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: am I hearing this right? I feel like I'm already
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: winning these rounds. He said, no, we're equal. We're equal
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: on the scorecards after eight rounds. So I was like, okay.
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: So in the ninth round.
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: Like even the commentator so like what, yeah, exactly, But
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: then I really started pushing even more.
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: But I was pushing already. But if you know you're
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: like eight or seven rounds ahead and you feel like
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: you're getting tired the last two or three rounds, just
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: move around, yeah, tip tap, and maybe you lose him,
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: maybe it's a draw or whatever. And then still you
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: win because you were like five rounds ahead. Then it
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: doesn't make any sense. But now we had to keep
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: pushing and then oh, it's like walking straight into that uppercut.
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: Like still it still gets me. Oh when I look
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: back at it, it's like, oh, and then that last part,
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: that's what I find so hard, and I feel like
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: I need to work on that as a as a
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: human being, for myself as a person. I can only
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: look at that at that one mistake I felt I
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: made at the end because I gave them the opportunity
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: to pull this card. That's what that's that's how it
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: feels for me.
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: Mistake being that you push too hard, or.
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: The mistake like there was one mistake that I made
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: running into that uppercut, like walking straight in swinging And
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: we said in the in the in the whole prep
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: I tried that a few times, like, oh that's dangerous,
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: don't do that, would do sick. And still, for whatever reason,
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: I did that at that exact moment, and that that's
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: what what frustrates me if I look back at it,
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: because I'm only I'm not looking at what he did well,
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: because that upper cup was amazing. I'm just looking at
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: what I what I'm responsible for, and I'm responsible for myself,
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: and I gave them now this opportunity by making that mistake,
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: and that's like, oh so hard to get over that
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: for myself. But I need to work on that because
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: I had the same with the Jamal ben Sidik fighter
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: with the eye. Everybody's like, oh, Rico, you showed them
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: you're never giving up of it. But I know I
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: got that. I know I got that from the inside.
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: But I never have to show that because the skill
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: set is so so big that I don't get in
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: I don't get in trouble, so I don't have to
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: show that I can continue and never giving up. But
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: I can only look at that, Oh, that one mistake,
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: Why did I do that? Then I get the eye
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: You're so stupid, So I can only forget that.
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's that guy fucking punches hard.
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and he's.
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: A big fella.
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he's bigger than I am.
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: Jamal Bensidik is huge, powerful power.
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: So that's uh that that's hard for But I gotta
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: work on that for myself.
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: Like yeah, but that's also why you're great. Yeah, I
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: mean you have to. You have to hate mistakes, hate
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: them like they're poison.
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah they are. Yeah, yeah yeah but you got yeah yeah. Yeah.
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: You should have seen me after the fight, like I was.
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: I was like a big baby. I was crying in
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: my my hotel room, like a big, big baby, like,
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: oh my god. I was so close and like shocking
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: the world, and now this happened. It was like, oh,
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: it hurts so bad.
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: Extent, but at least you could laugh at it a
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: little bit now. Yeah, I can only imagine now. To
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: me watching it as a fan of yours, I was like,
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: oh my god, he's gonna fucking pull it off.
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: I was on the edge of my seat. And when
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: we're going into the ninth and tenth rounds, so I
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: was like, I don't see how USA can win. And
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: then when they started talking about the scorecards, I was like,
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: what the fuck are they watching this?
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: They're looking at a different fight. But that's so.
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: But for me either corruptor competent, Yeah.
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: If I look at it now, and for us talking
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: about it, and for you being so long into combat
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: sports and being a commentator and doing it yourself, wouldn't
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: it be something. Wouldn't you be maybe a spokesman or
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: a part Could you be a part of a way
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: how we can make this whole judging thing and this
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: whole transparency better.
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: Well, I think one way to do it is to
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: have more judges, like Glory does. I think five is
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: probably the right number. And I think another thing to
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: do is maybe have a bunch of people online that
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: are recognized experts, like top trainers, top commentators, people that
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: really understand the sport, and maybe they get an app.
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: Maybe there's like a special app that those guys can
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: judge on, so you have a collective expert opinion and
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: you get to look at that as well.
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: But that's what we had now. Like if if you
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: look the professionals, the trainers, the commentators, they all saw
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: the fight a certain way, but the judges saw something totally.
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: They were looking at a different fight for some kind
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: of reason, and that's that's crazy a problem.
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: Like we talked about, it's either in competence or its corruption,
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: and I think it might be a little bit of both.
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: And I think maybe the corruption isn't even conscious. But
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: it's like they know who the promoter wants to win.
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: They want Usik to win because Usik is where you
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: can get the next Tyson Fury fight or the Anthony Joshua,
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: well not Anthony Joshua, but whoever he would decide to fight,
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: you know. Again, and now it's going to be Deontay Wilder,
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: which nobody's called.
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: I don't know if it's going to happen.
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: Where is that signed? Can you please find out if
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: that Anthony Joshua or excuse me, the Deontay Wilder Alexander
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: Usik fight is signed because people were talking about that
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: being I think they were saying like December or something.
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: They were trying for it. At least I know that's
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: what that's what they were trying for for. But for me,
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: like that's why for not it's.
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: Not officially signed yet. Okay, clean to his excellency Turkey,
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: I shake, this is the fight. But here's the question,
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: does Usik want that fight, that's the question. A really
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: tough fight like that fight, and then you know they
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: ask you to do it again. This is your last
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: time out, he's calling. I mean, this is he's called
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: this is his last fight. If this is the last
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: fight and he almost lost to you and he has
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: the potential of losing again, they'd have to entice him
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: with They don't have to paper.
• 36:37
  Speaker 3: You pull out that paper, Okay if I lose is
• 36:43
  Speaker 3: what it is exactly why it's so good for me
• 36:47
  Speaker 3: now to be in this position.
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: I'm a free agent. We got offered from the biggest
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: organizations across the world like after this fight, and I'm
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: just like taking taking.
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: My time they've given you. That's exciting. Can you talk
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: about them? No?
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: Really no, Yeah, they.
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: Know a lot of people talked about you possibly boxing
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: Francis and Ghano or having an MMA fight with Francis
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: and Ghana. So was that out on the table.
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah no, So to be honest, like two weeks before
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: the USIK fights, there was the the m v P card,
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: but then they approached me like weeks before MVP to
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: mm A Firsus Francis and then I was also like
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: right on the edge of like closing the deal with us,
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: and so I had the two options on the table,
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: and yeah, to be honest, like the the other the
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: the the mm A deal, like they kept on like
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: stacking up, stacking up, like we got like, okay, where
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: did we give you the m okay? But what if
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: you give you the okay? Let me look at this
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: option again. But then yeah, I just looked myself in
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: the mirror, like I respect his excellency, and Jason gave
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: his word, and his excellency gave his word that they
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: were gonna do it. And if I look at myself,
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: I'm looking at the legacy and that Francis Nagano fight
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: is still going to be there after the USIK fight.
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: But how crazy is that as a kickboxer coming in
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: fighting for a world championship within boxing and potentially winning,
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: because that's how I. I only have one one plan
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: and that's winning. So that's how I went into that fight.
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: And you know, we saw how that went. And there
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: was genuine kick him no, not really, not at all, No,
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: just a few low kicks because that he's definitely not
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: going to make make it to the end. That was
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: so funny because everybody's like you've been kickboxing for so long,
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: Like what happens if you had kick him? Like just like,
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: don't you have that feeling? Like like, guy's like I've
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: been boxing next to doing kickbox seems like four fifteen
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: years or something. I've been working with Peter Fury for
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: so long, and I'm used to this. But I know,
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: for I think that's what made me such a good
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: kickboxer as well, that I.
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: Was into boxing. But there's a giant difference between working
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: with a kickboxer and even being a kickboxer and fighting
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: arguably the greatest heavyweight of all time. Crazy.
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: But the crazy thing was I think I think it
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: was around five or six. I was like he was
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: jabbing me. I was just taking it away, and I
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: was like, i was like talking to myself in the fight.
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: I'm like, O jabbing the jump, this is crazy, and
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: you're training my train to Dennis, we go, just keep
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: doing what you're doing. You're winning this fight. Let's go,
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: let's go, let's go, he said, because he also didn't
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: want me to take too many risks. It's like, Okay,
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: you won this round, and then continue from them, because
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: that's how they were experiencing it. The and the rounds
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: on the side.
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: Well, let me ask you this, when you first started
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: formulating a game plan, did you watch a bunch of
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: I'm sure you're already a fan of usis you watched
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: his fighter But did you rewatch them and try to
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: find the patterns? But how did you formulate this game plan?
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: Of course? Uh with Yeah, my trainer Peter Fury, uh
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: with he's yeah, he's crazy. He's the very, very very
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: bet best at what he does, and we were just
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: like analyzing these fights like so first he already had
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: the thing in his mind and he asked me, like,
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: what do you see all these boxers do and what
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: they shouldn't be doing, and what do you think they
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: should do? So I look at it, I look at it.
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: I look at it, and I think it basically started
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: with if somebody is a south pole, why would you
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: stay right in front of them? That's one thing, And
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: because you cannot go if somebody's orthodox, you move to
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: the right, But you cannot move to the right with
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: the south because you walk he straight into a left hand.
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: So why is nobody moving to the left, Because then
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: as soon as you move to the left, you're walking
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: away from that strong arm, I think, and that's what
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: we say he's at exactly.
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: Which is crazy. It's just so many people are so
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: stuck in their patterns. The way they like to move.
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: They like to move to their right, that's what they like.
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: They feel good. They want to move to the right
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: and throw a right hand. But you're just running into
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: that powerhand. It's just crazy that. It's not just that too,
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: it's also the size difference. Like that was one thing.
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: It's like you were so big in that that ring
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: that you were smothering him and you are on top
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: of him and you're throwing those shots in tight.
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: But the the combination of those two getting him out
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: of that position took away so many, so many of
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: his tools. And then, like you said, smothering and getting
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: into him and using my size because if you ask me,
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: like all the guys he fought are way they're they're
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: my size, they're way bigger than him. But because the
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: way they fought, they couldn't use their size on him.
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: But the way I did it, I could.
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: Tyson Fury did a lot. He used his size a lot,
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: you know. And he's a different kind of big though.
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: He's big and long where you're fucking thick, you know,
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: it's a different thing. You're very lean and huge. It's
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: a different it's like the mass of you. When you
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: were on top of him pushing him, you could see
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: that it was a factor he was recognizing.
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: But it's so hard, Like if you look at that
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: fight that you just mentioned, is how are you gonna
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: get He tried to use his size, but how are
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: you going to get close to him walking straight into it?
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: Because he's then he's just going to keep moving right
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: and keep moving because he's so fast on his feet.
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: But that's what we tried to do. We try to
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: be fast on her feet and move to the side
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: and then get into it and then get close because
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: then as soon as you uh, he's the south. But
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: you keep moving this way and just keep getting closer.
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: Somewhere you're gonna You're gonna be there. You're gonna reach him.
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: But it takes it takes some time. And I didn't
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: think if you look at the heavyweights, what they all
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: want to do is they want to bomb. They want
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: to hit maybe boom boom one two first is the
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: very ugly, one of the best to have ever done it.
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: And then especially in the cruiser rate. How are you
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: gonna hit him in step A, Right, It's gonna be
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: at least step B, C or D. When you're gonna
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: hit him, you gotta have multiple plans. Like for me,
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: I was just throwing throw, throw, throw, throw, and I
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: know I'm gonna I was the first time I was
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: gonna hit him was maybe in punch six or whatever,
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: because then the dist is gonna be closer. So I
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: didn't even think about trying to knock his head up.
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: That's what I said. I said, that's what I'm gonna do,
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: try and knock his head off. Of course, I'm gonna
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: tell him that because that this is definitely not what
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: we're gonna do. I was just gonna get close and
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: keep keep working, keep working volume, and then finally when
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: you're there, that's the moment you're gonna put in some power.
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: But that's like maybe punch seven or eight. But the
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: first three four you're not even gonna hit this gonna
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: you just you're just hitting air because he's too fast.
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: Right, He's like a giant Lomachenko exactly.
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: That's how we thought about it. Don't try and hit
• 44:35
  Speaker 2: him in the first two or three punches, throw them
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: so he has something to look at and something to
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: think about, and then we're gonna get there and as
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: soon as you get there, you smother him. Boom, punch
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: him in the body.
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: What heavyweight boxers have you worked with over the years,
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: all the top fighters?
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: Of course, that's how I got with ped Fury. I
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: started with Tyson Fury. I trained with Jacob because he
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: was also in that uh in that cam back then.
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: Yui Fury Peterson, he's I think he's he's also he's
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: been going up and down because of his health, but
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: he's definitely one of the best, and he we're going
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: to see more of him because yeah, he's such a
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: good competitor, such a good boxer as well, great skill set.
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: So there's been a bunch of fighters that that that
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: would work with.
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: That's so massive because you know, sharing all that gym
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: time with elite guys like Tyson Fury, Yeah, you know
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: in Kobe, having that kind of experience in the gym
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: must have also been a huge confidence.
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: Especially now there is this whole last thing and is
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: trying to get like good self prole fighters. Oh my god,
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: that's the hardest thing, the hardest thing, and then we
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: had one big guy and we had one uh one
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: smaller guy. It was uh, it was so hard. And
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: then mixing that up. So we started off with first
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: the first six with the big guy, Moses Jelly and
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: an amazing boxer. But he's big, he's big, he's heavy.
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: He's not a noosic, he's like twice as big as Usiic.
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: But he's a south pole so he has that power
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: and we could really compete. And then after that, uh
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: we we we jumped in with the with James Branch
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: and he's like ninety ninety kilo south pole, so he's
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: like throwing rapid fire buck so and and that change
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: within sparring. So the first six with one and then
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: six with the other, oh my god, that was it
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: was next level. It was like six months of pure
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: hard work.
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: But it was so cool. It was so cool, and
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: it yeah, it just opened up my mind to a
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: whole different to a whole different world. And it's for
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: being in in combat sports since I was six and
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: after all these years saying like, okay, this kickboxing chapter
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: within the book is I think that's that's done, that's
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: start a new chapter.
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: Well, there's no big kickboxing fight that can compare with
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: what you just did. No, exactly how old are you now,
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: thirty eight, thirty seven, thirty seven, So at that age,
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: like you've got to you gotta like look at what
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: you've already accomplished. Yeah, in kickboxing, there's no fight that
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: everyone's calling out for, like, oh you have you know,
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: it's not like Barter Harri's in the prime. It's not
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: like one big fight.
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: No. No, So there was like, hey, and especially with
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: the whole crossover fights being at the biggest attention right now,
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: it's like, hey, I think that's something we got to
• 47:54
  Speaker 2: look at.
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: So after the fight is done, Yeah, Turkey Aloshet comes
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: into the ring says, you got is gonna fight again.
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: And it's been a couple of months now, so what
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: has happened? What? What do you talk to?
• 48:06
  Speaker 4: Anybody they talk to because it's been crazy, like all
• 48:12
  Speaker 4: the biggest organizations reached out, Hey, we were looking at
• 48:15
  Speaker 4: this fight, we're looking at that fight.
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: But what about what?
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: What? What? What makes what makes sense for us? And
• 48:22
  Speaker 2: That's where I'm looking at now because like I said,
• 48:25
  Speaker 2: I mean I believe I'm in the winter of my career.
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: So I'm I'm just looking at big fights.
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: Do you have time when you want to get out?
• 48:36
  Speaker 2: No, No, it's not set in stone, but let's let's
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: let's see. Let's see. But like I said, I feel
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: like I'm so excited, I'm so I'm so happy, and
• 48:48
  Speaker 2: I'm so grateful to be in this position right now.
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: So let's yeah make history.
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah right, they fucked you over, but you did win.
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: You got a big win out of it in that
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: you performed way better than anybody expected. And then there's
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: also this element where people are rooting for you because
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: they do think you got fucked over, think you were
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: getting sucked over in the scoring and they got you
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: got sucked over with the stoppage. Yeah, and so it's
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: very marketable. And so my question, though, what I'm asking
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: is has anybody talked about the rematch other than that
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: one time?
• 49:27
  Speaker 2: What I wanted to know is, Oh, he's talking about
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: the rematch.
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: That is the fight, that is that's one of the
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: biggest fights in heavyweight boxing right now. If not, though,
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: it's got to be other than Tyson Fury versus Anthony
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: Joshua was gonna be big for England right for them,
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: that's an all time two of the all time greats
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: in two of the greatest British heavyweight champions ever. A
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: little bit late, but it's a little late, especially after
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: Anthony Joshua's last fight that was a scary one. I
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: was like, whoa, but.
• 49:56
  Speaker 2: Both of them, yes, both of the fights they did.
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not they're not the same guy, no, but
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: but still it's still they're super excited, exactly the legends
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: and it's a huge fight that finally made. Other than that,
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: the fight is a rematch. Yeah, you and Usik is
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: the fight. That's the fight in the heavyweight division right now.
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: There's no one else out there that's like, you know,
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: there's Moses I. Tauma, who people don't really know about enough,
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: not yet yet.
• 50:26
  Speaker 2: The future.
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: So that guy's good dynamite dynamite, dynamite, yeah, so good. Yeah,
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: and he's so slick and how he moves in and out.
• 50:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah no, that's uh, that's the next choice. Yeah, he's
• 50:40
  Speaker 2: the future.
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean he's like our generations Mike Tyson. Yeah,
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: well you watch him. He's twenty one years old, he's
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: coming up and you're like, oh yeah, ship, he's like
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: but other than I mean, but he doesn't have enough
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: experience yet and doesn't have enough name yet for what
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: he really is, what his potential if one day will happen.
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: But for you and for USAK and for heavyweight boxing,
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: that's the viney. Maybe we'll get Dana White to get
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: ZUFA involved.
• 51:10
  Speaker 2: That would be crazy.
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: I don't know what is it does. Does Is there
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: some sort of a deal that is with anybody?
• 51:17
  Speaker 2: I don't think so, because I believe that is one
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: of the reasons as well why he vacated those belts.
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: Because he doesn't deal with anybody else.
• 51:27
  Speaker 2: No, because when you have those belts, you get forced
• 51:30
  Speaker 2: into fights like Okay, you're mandatory to fight this guy,
• 51:34
  Speaker 2: and that was the I think for him, the position
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: that he was in fighting me, he could like that
• 51:42
  Speaker 2: was a voluntary defense, and he decided like, hey, I
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: would love to do this on my terms versus another guy,
• 51:50
  Speaker 2: and I think they looked at it like this is
• 51:54
  Speaker 2: maybe gonna be an easier fight, so this is nice
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: to do. That didn't go the way his plan, but
• 52:01
  Speaker 2: but still I think that's where where his mind is
• 52:04
  Speaker 2: at now, Like he's like he's like, I just want
• 52:07
  Speaker 2: to do what I want to do, which makes so
• 52:09
  Speaker 2: much sense. After what what he has accomplished, after.
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: What he has accomplished, he should be able to call
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: his own shots. And I want him to make the
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: most money possible because he is a legend.
• 52:18
  Speaker 2: But that's this, this is the fight.
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: This is what the problem is. It might be too hard. Yeah,
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: it might be too hard. It might be one of
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: those ones, which is why he may be you know,
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: no disrespect to Deontay, but he might be looking at
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: Deontay thinking Deontay is a little softer.
• 52:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we're gonna right into the sunset.
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's spectacular knockout.
• 52:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's also then, like you said, it's not
• 52:40
  Speaker 2: going to be the big money grab that because if
• 52:44
  Speaker 2: you ask me pay for that, no, exactly, they're not
• 52:46
  Speaker 2: going to be paid that that crazy money for it.
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: It's not a big pay per view fight. That's the thing.
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: It's like, people will watch it just because he's an
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: all time great and anytime Usk fights, people are going
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: to watch. And Deontay is still he's still the greatest
• 53:01
  Speaker 1: one punch knockout artist in the history.
• 53:03
  Speaker 2: You should never know what's going to happen.
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: You lose is the power. His power is fucking crazy.
• 53:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, geek can finish you in the in the tenth.
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, with one shot. Yeah, he had Ortiz on the
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: top of the head and put him out. I was like,
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: that is nuts, man. He's just a level of power,
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: different level of power. But again, forty years old, it's
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: twilight of his career and this hasn't looked good in
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: the last, you know, last few years. But for Usak
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: to want that fight signals to me that he just
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: you know, wants just go out with one more pay
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: day and that's it. And I don't know if that
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: was his choice that fight. Maybe that's just the internet talking. Yeah,
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: maybe that's Deontay Wilder's team wants that fight.
• 53:47
  Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't know either. But like I said,
• 53:49
  Speaker 2: I got I got all the options. They gave me
• 53:51
  Speaker 2: all the options, like, hey, you want to find this guy.
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: I want to find that So if they talk to
• 53:54
  Speaker 1: you about m M A as well.
• 53:56
  Speaker 2: Uh yeah yeah, but yeah, I'm keeping the options open.
• 54:01
  Speaker 1: But I'm leaning towards boxing, yeah, because.
• 54:04
  Speaker 2: I've been in the boxing game now and I've enjoyed
• 54:06
  Speaker 2: it so much. And that's like for me, like I
• 54:11
  Speaker 2: just said, like I came from kickboxing, from being six
• 54:13
  Speaker 2: years old and doing it for over thirty years and
• 54:17
  Speaker 2: then now getting really into boxing. I was always boxing,
• 54:20
  Speaker 2: but I was boxing to kickbox. It's a totally different game.
• 54:23
  Speaker 2: I had to rewire everything that was in there. So
• 54:30
  Speaker 2: now that I did it and I performed the way
• 54:33
  Speaker 2: that I performed, it was like, Yeah, this was fun.
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: This episode is sponsored by better Help. You've probably heard
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: about better Help before, but maybe you haven't heard from
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: those who have actually used better Help. That feedback can
• 54:47
  Speaker 1: tell you everything you need to know. Go to betterhelp
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: dot com slash reviews and check out the feedback from
• 54:54
  Speaker 1: hundreds of people saying how much they love this service.
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: It's easy to see why. Get started. All you have
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: to do is answer a few questions. You'll get matched
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: up with a therapist based on your needs, and if
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: it's not the right fit, you can switch therapists at
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: any time. See the reviews, see what stands out, and
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: see if better Help is right for you. Visit betterhelp
• 55:16
  Speaker 1: dot com slash j r E. That's better h e
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: l p dot com slash j r E.
• 55:24
  Speaker 2: I really enjoyed that.
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: Also. That is the Glory division, no pun intended of
• 55:29
  Speaker 1: the heavyweight division is the heavyweight division of boxing rather
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: is the heavyweight division. Heavyweight division is where the real
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: money is at always. Yeah, that is the baddest.
• 55:37
  Speaker 2: It's always boxing.
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: It's always been that way. And for you, after that performance,
• 55:41
  Speaker 1: I gotta think there's a lot of options for you.
• 55:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like I said, they threw so many stuff at us,
• 55:48
  Speaker 2: but we're like, hey, we take our time look at
• 55:50
  Speaker 2: the different options. And of course still is excellency has
• 55:56
  Speaker 2: our first preference because they gave us the opportunity when yeah,
• 56:03
  Speaker 2: we had we had, like.
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: To fight in front of the pyramids. That's crazy, insane
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: outside it was insane, Joe.
• 56:11
  Speaker 2: It's like, let me tell you another story. So that
• 56:17
  Speaker 2: happened also while I was in this camp. It's not
• 56:21
  Speaker 2: a nice, nice thing to say, but my mother passed
• 56:24
  Speaker 2: away during the moment I was in camp before this fight,
• 56:29
  Speaker 2: and well that happened. It was it was hard, and
• 56:32
  Speaker 2: then we had to clean out her house and then
• 56:36
  Speaker 2: finally doing that and cleaning everything, and then we come
• 56:40
  Speaker 2: by a bunch of pictures and yeah, you can see
• 56:44
  Speaker 2: it on my Instagram. And then I see the pictures
• 56:46
  Speaker 2: of my mother thirty years prior being in front of
• 56:51
  Speaker 2: the pyramids. It's like, Wow, why do I see these
• 56:55
  Speaker 2: pictures now knowing that this fight is in front of
• 56:58
  Speaker 2: the pyramids. It was mind blowing And so for me
• 57:03
  Speaker 2: it was like full circle going back. I like literally
• 57:07
  Speaker 2: made the same pictures my mother made thirty years prior
• 57:11
  Speaker 2: before the fight in front of the swings in front
• 57:14
  Speaker 2: of the pyramids, and that was like goosebump. So for
• 57:17
  Speaker 2: me having that whole experience being in front of the
• 57:20
  Speaker 2: pyramids doing that was like full circle.
• 57:25
  Speaker 1: When did they come up with that idea to have
• 57:27
  Speaker 1: you guys fight in front of the pyramids?
• 57:30
  Speaker 2: Well, the way they do.
• 57:33
  Speaker 1: That, yeah, that's crazy. That really is crazy.
• 57:39
  Speaker 5: Wow wow, yeah.
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: That really is wild.
• 57:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 57:56
  Speaker 5: Still so like the course of course, Yeah, so when
• 58:06
  Speaker 5: did they come up with the idea of having a
• 58:09
  Speaker 5: heavyweight title fight in front of the pyramids?
• 58:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah? So the communication is always like really like straightforward
• 58:19
  Speaker 2: and they don't say too much. So the way it began,
• 58:24
  Speaker 2: like the first thing I got was just like, what's
• 58:28
  Speaker 2: that picture? We're thinking about this location? That was the
• 58:35
  Speaker 2: thing because first I saw the picture, I opened it, Oh,
• 58:40
  Speaker 2: the pyramids. Nice, And then after that I looked at it,
• 58:43
  Speaker 2: we're looking we're thinking about this location, like Okay, but
• 58:47
  Speaker 2: how are you gonna do that? Like to me, it
• 58:50
  Speaker 2: didn't make too much sense. And then afterwards I said,
• 58:53
  Speaker 2: like they said me, Video're like, yeah, we're gonna do
• 58:55
  Speaker 2: it here. It's gonna be outside, and it's like, oh
• 58:57
  Speaker 2: my god, it's gonna be outside in front of the pyramid.
• 59:00
  Speaker 2: It's just like mind blowing. And that was that was
• 59:04
  Speaker 2: also a thing. That's what I said, like, it was
• 59:08
  Speaker 2: like the rumble in the jungle, right. But then with
• 59:13
  Speaker 2: that being said, what people thought, like, what what is
• 59:18
  Speaker 2: this guy talking about? Is he putting himself in the
• 59:21
  Speaker 2: same category as as Ali and Foreman or whatever? What
• 59:25
  Speaker 2: is it? No, that's not what I'm saying. I mean
• 59:27
  Speaker 2: about the location. I never put myself in that. Everybody
• 59:31
  Speaker 2: that knows me like, I'm I'm super humblest. I never
• 59:34
  Speaker 2: would say something like that. But that's what I meant,
• 59:37
  Speaker 2: like it was something like the rumbling in the jungle,
• 59:40
  Speaker 2: because we're talking about the location, right, Like.
• 59:42
  Speaker 1: The location was a part of the experience.
• 59:45
  Speaker 2: Exactly was it was insane Joe like. And then for me,
• 59:49
  Speaker 2: they ask me, like we go, can we ask you
• 59:51
  Speaker 2: to do like a certain choreography? Okay, I don't want
• 59:55
  Speaker 2: to do too much. I want to focus on fighting.
• 59:57
  Speaker 2: So okay, the only thing you gotta do is like
• 59:59
  Speaker 2: pun the ground, and then the ground is gonna crack open,
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 2: and then we're gonna like for the first time that
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 2: evening boom, we're gonna turn on the pyramids. So that's cool,
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 2: that sounds good. I'll do that. So I did that, buddy.
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 2: So I punched the ground. I turned around, and for
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 2: the first time, we see like the ground cracking open,
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 2: and then then the lights shine onto the pyramids. Wow. Wow,
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 2: it was It was a goose bump moment.
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 1: Was that your first time being at the pyramids?
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so that's why the whole picture and this whole
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 2: thing was for me. It was like a full circle,
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 2: like wow, it was such a special moment, such a
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 2: special event. And then okay, then I turn around. Then
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 2: my whole theme song comes up. You know, you know
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 2: how I run to the ring, But that wasn't like
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 2: a real catwalk. And during the day I already went
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 2: to see like what they expected from me, and like
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 2: how I'm gonna And there was like some small steps
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 2: like down like five or six. But then he I
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 2: do my thing, and I do wow, and I run
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 2: to the ring. But I was like walking straight onto
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 2: these steps. I'm like, am I gonna take these steps fast?
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 2: I'm like, no, fuck them, I'll just jump down. I
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 2: just decided that at the moment and then I landed.
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 2: It was like, oh, this was higher than and I
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 2: just kept on running. It's like, just think about like
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 2: maybe I just like spring my ankle or something. I
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 2: jumping from the crazy like that.
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, oh my god.
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 2: It was so funny because afterwards the camera man who
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 2: woke up to me, He's like, I almost missed you.
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 2: You were jumping down. It's like I'm looking at you,
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 2: looking at you, like, bro, you were gone. That was why. Yeah,
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 2: it was. It was wild. It was outside and it
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 2: was the temperature was actually was was pretty good.
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 1: What was the temperature.
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 2: I think it was like twenty twenty degrees.
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 1: So that's celsius. What is that? It's like seventy something sure, Yeah,
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 1: swirly in that in the old midpark? Was that, Jamie?
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 1: I mean one hundred you know its boiling and two
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 1: hundred and twelve is boiling for fahrenheit, but like zero
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 1: and thirty I don't know what. Yeah, somewhere in the
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 1: middle put it in the well, here, I'll do it
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 1: right here, have this on the screen. I can't what
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 1: is twenty degrees celsius in fahrenheit sixty eight?
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 2: Oh?
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 1: Perfect?
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 2: So that was that was nice. So you're like, ah,
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 2: and I run who I didn't just jukes down? Wow? No,
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 2: it was so cool.
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 1: Did it feel any different than any other fight you've
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 1: had before? No? No, we've had so much. What is
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 1: how many kickboxing fights have you got?
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 2: Seventy five something?
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 1: Seventy five? That's crazy? Yeah, that is crazy.
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah it was. Yeah, it was.
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 1: That's a giant, huge advantage of having so much combat
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 1: sports experience.
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, But where everybody was leaning towards it was like,
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 2: this guy has one professional boxing fight. What is he
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 2: doing there? It is this to make any sense? My guys,
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 2: I've been in and around the ring for quite a while.
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 1: I have a bunch of friends of mine that are
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 1: just boxing fans yea. And they were talking all kinds
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 1: of shit like you know.
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 2: Oh, so I had so many apologies. So we go
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 2: about so many famous boxers and I'd be like, I
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 2: didn't know what you were capable of, but damn, this
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 2: was this was crazy, Like, oh, thank you appreciate that.
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 1: Quite honestly, I didn't know what you're going to be
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 1: capable of either, because I knew you as a kickboxer
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 1: were one of the greatest of all time, but as
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 1: a boxer, I hadn't seen him, Like, you're taking away
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 1: one of his biggest weapons, which is the low kicks.
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 1: I mean, your low kicks are phenomenal. You have to
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 1: tree trunk legs, you know. So I was like, that's
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 1: a giant weapon that's removed from him, Like, we'll see,
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 1: he's also fighting one of the greatest of all time,
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 1: if not the greatest boxer of all time in the
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 1: heavyweight division. But to have that kind of a performance
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 1: and to do it the way you did it, it's like, man,
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 1: it was. It was amazing to watch. It was as
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 1: a personals watching combat sports. It's one of the most
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 1: exciting things I've ever watched.
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you so much. I appreciate that. But for me,
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 2: I think what worked in my advantage the most was
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 2: if you look at kickboxing and it's logical, like physically,
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 2: it's like you're so square on, and everybody thought that
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 2: was what I was going to do, but I was
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 2: boxing always to kickbox so Peter Fury has been telling
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 2: me to get more on the side for years, But
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 2: how as a kickboxer, am I going to be more
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 2: on the side.
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 1: I can't.
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 2: They're going to kick my leg off because I can't
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 2: block anymore. So I was constantly trying to find the
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 2: balance within that. And now Peter was super happy because
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 2: now finally he could teach me boxing to box proper
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 2: stamps every time, go more to the side, more to
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 2: the side, because you're too square on them right back.
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 2: So I needed the six months. It's so much hard
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 2: work we had to put into that.
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 1: Did you find yourself like having to correct it mentally
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 1: or did it get to a point where it was
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 1: instinctive the stance in the position.
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 2: We had to I had to definitely correct and they
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 2: had to tell me, but.
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 1: Were you correcting in the fight? In the fight, was
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 1: it down? Was it instinctive? It was you gotten.
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 2: It and we got it down.
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 1: But within the whole prep it, you really do need
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 1: the six months.
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 2: So for me, this this whole experience of getting into
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 2: boxing like it was perfect. It was perfect for everybody
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 2: around it it was. It was really terrible. Of course,
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 2: where Anthony Joshua went through and everything, so that the
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 2: most horrific thing ever. But for me getting into the
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 2: transition to boxing, I needed that time to get it
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 2: like a clean transition. And that's why I was super
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 2: happy with with the six months and the change of fights.
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 2: So I believe, like the the Anthony George fight is
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 2: still a big fight that we that we could do.
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 2: But yeah, getting the opportunity to fight for a boxing
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 2: heavyweight title is on another level big of course.
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, gigantic. And then also I've got to think
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 1: that from that experience, you're even better now. You have
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 1: to be better. You just were in there with the
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 1: best guy ever.
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah. But the funny thing is, like that's why I
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 2: made the meme of Jim Carrey, like because everybody was like,
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 2: he's moving pretty strange, what is he doing? But we
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 2: knew that that thing would work versus versus Sick, And
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 2: but we got so many more tools in the toolbox
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 2: that we can pull out because in another fight, for
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 2: this is a different fighter, we're going to show a
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 2: whole different RICO again. But if we're going to fight
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 2: O Sick again, it's going to be slightly different, but
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 2: it's still like basically the strategy worked well.
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 1: You gave him so many things to think about constantly. Yeah,
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 1: there was no time to set. There was always chaos,
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 1: there was always hands moving, there was always your bodies moving.
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 1: You're moving forward, you're shuffling around. It was so much
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 1: activity that his mind has to constantly process all these
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 1: different But.
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 2: Normally that is what he does. Yes, And that's if
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 2: you look at the whole heavyweight division all his previous fights.
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 2: He was in control. He was showing them so much.
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 2: And if you have something to look at the whole time,
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 2: He's like, it keeps you, gets your mind out of
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 2: what you want to do because you're constantly and dissipating
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 2: what your opponent is doing. That's what we try to do.
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 2: We try to take that from him.
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 1: What were you doing for conditioning? Like, I just want
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 1: to know what your conditioning is like in general, because
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 1: you are such a big guy and to be that
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 1: big and have that kind of cardio is very extraordinary.
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 2: Um Do I agree? Do? I agree? Maybe? Partially I
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 2: agree with that because to be honest, at the top, Joe,
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 2: everybody works hard, right, That's what I do. I just
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 2: work incredibly hard. But I believe that mentally when you
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 2: get tired or when your body gives signals of starting
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 2: feeling to feel tired, how do you cope with that
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 2: in your mind? That's that's where I think the biggest
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 2: difference is because if at the moment I feel I'm
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 2: getting tired, then I know my opponent is feeling fucked right,
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 2: because I know how hard I work to be fit
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 2: and to do everything possible to be in the best
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 2: shape ever. Because if you look at training schedules or whatever,
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 2: for my schedule versus another guy's schedule, I find it
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 2: hard to believe that I'm training so much harder than
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 2: all the other top guys. Yeah, that's my opinion. I
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 2: find that hard to believe. So for me, it's just
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 2: like a mental thing as soon as I start feeling
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 2: it like okay, not if it starts well.
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 1: There's certain certain people have genetics that lean towards better
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 1: cardio and conditioning, like in the UFC camee Velasquez was
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 1: famous for that. He just had insane cardio for everyway.
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 1: But for you, are you what I'm getting at? How
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 1: much time are you spending on strength and conditioning versus
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 1: skill work?
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 2: I think it's pretty balanced. It's pretty balanced. But for example,
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 2: everything I do is based on endurance. So even the
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 2: power you I don't have to do with three hundred
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 2: pounds bench press, right, I don't care. I know I'm
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 2: already big, right, I'm I know I'm not the hardest
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 2: puncher within the game. I don't have to be the
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 2: hardest puncher in the game. But as soon as I hit,
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 2: I'm still a heavyweight still, right, two hundred and sixty
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 2: pounds behind it. So when I hit you, you gotta feel it.
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 2: So that's how we approach it. I don't Yeah, just
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 2: lean into what works for you. I'm not the strongest puncher.
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 2: I also don't believe I'm the most skillful, but I'm
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 2: definitely the hardest worker. And that's what we try to
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 2: do emphasize, like just keep working, keep working hard. So
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 2: we yeah, the pace is high, we can show a lot,
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 2: we can do a lot.
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 1: Do you have a guy that's just a strength and
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 1: conditioning god, and so like, what kind of work were
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 1: you doing? What kind of things are you doing?
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 2: You want to know it all? Right? Yeah, I do
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 2: a full buddy, full buddy workout three times a week
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 2: and just a lot of reps, a lot of reps.
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 1: So this is more strength and conditioning or is it
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 1: both at the same time.
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 2: It's because what we do is we I have for example,
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 2: we do chest and I do like twenty reps, just
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 2: the beginning twenty reps. Then we get to another exercise
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 2: and then again I do twenty twenty reps. So we
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 2: do forty reps each and those reps are going to
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 2: go up the closer we get to the fight. But
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 2: the rest between the exercise is just thirty seconds, and
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 2: then we change exces and we go to a different
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 2: muscle group, and then we go back to chess, and
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 2: then again we do twenty twenty thirty seconds. Okay, we
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 2: go to a different muscle then again thirty seconds. So
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 2: it's the paces is incredibly high, and I think that
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 2: whole training takes maybe thirty five to forty minutes max.
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's gotta be a giant factor because I don't
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 1: know how many people are doing that that way. You know,
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 1: a lot of guys are doing strength and or conditioning.
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 1: They're running, they're hitting the bag, they're doing different things.
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 2: But for me, like I'm not focusing on when I'm
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 2: focusing on strength, I don't want to be big. I
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 2: feel like I'm already pretty big, right, And the more
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 2: muscles I have, I have to just carry them with me.
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 2: And all those muscles they they want and they need oxygen,
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 2: So then my heart is going to be like pumping
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 2: just to get get that oxygen. There. No, I just
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 2: focus on that booming and then I start with twenty and
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 2: then I get to twenty two, and then I get
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 2: to twenty fours and then with the same exact weight,
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 2: So you get so much stronger at the same time
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 2: you get so much fitter, right, And that combination just
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 2: I don't know, it's just it's just been working for
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 2: us throughout the years.
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 1: So are you using apps and heart rate monitors and
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 1: things on those lines.
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, these heart rate monitors, they're running in different different ways.
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 2: We do the interval running, we do the endurance running.
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 2: Sometimes you just run for an hour and then you
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 2: do the interval running.
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 1: Is this mostly treadmill work? Yeah?
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because like my body's yeah, been through a lot.
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 1: Right, So running on the concrete, running outside its rough
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 1: on the knees.
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 2: No, it's uh, I don't believe it's smart. So I
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 2: have this special treadmill which I'm i can take some
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 2: of my own weight off, so I have this big
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 2: balloon around me.
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 1: Oh okay, I know what you're talking about. I've seen
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 1: those before.
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so I got that. Since that the ACL surgery
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 2: on the knee, and ever since, I've been using it
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 2: and I love it. I love it so I can
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 2: do the running experience, and because I love running because
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 2: it's so hard, so heavy on the body, and mentally
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 2: it's so hard. But then I don't have the full
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 2: force on my joints, like right, right, right right, just like, yeah,
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 2: it's not good.
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 1: Well, I mean, you gotta think of all those years
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 1: of leg kicks like.
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 2: Caicks and oh my god, especially when I got the
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 2: a CL, I was like, oh my god.
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 1: How long ago did that happen?
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 2: Three years ago?
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 1: Three years ago?
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah? I thought. I thought I was done so much pain,
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 2: so much pain. I was like, why, I'm like getting
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 2: close to the end of my career, and now this happens,
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 2: like and then getting back from that within six months.
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 2: That was like, because I had a bucket handle meniscus.
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 1: And at the age of row a c L exactly
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 1: the same thing.
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was.
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 1: It was Did they remove the meniscus.
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 2: No, they just stitching back so the smarter.
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah they know that now.
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but the first six weeks you're not allowed to
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 2: put too much pressure on it, right, right, But oh my.
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 1: God, they used to think that you should cut the
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 1: meniscus out. Now they're they've done studies and they find
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 1: that there's no benefit to that.
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 2: It's between the bones or else. It's just bone on bone.
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 2: It's exactly they said, especially with me being so heavy
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 2: and so big, like within ten years, you're gonna have
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 2: trouble if we're gonna take it out.
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I have trouble on my left leg because of
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 1: that very reason. They took a big piece of it
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 1: out when I had the bucket handle tear. And it's
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 1: just that that area hurts all the time. Yeah, just
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 1: it is what it is. They do cadaver graphs. Will
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 1: they take a cadaver meniscus and put it in place? Yeah,
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 1: they take a piece of meniscus out of a dead guy.
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 1: But it doesn't always work. And you know, you really
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 1: have to be young for it to work more effectively.
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 1: I guess they say that, but that also could be
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 1: depend upon what you're doing with it, Like are you
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 1: using peptides? Are using stem cells, are using hyperbaric chamber,
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 1: are using red light therapy, are using all the different
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 1: modalities that can help you heal quicker. But yeah, they do.
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 1: I know a guy got it.
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 2: Do You definitely use every because you have an age
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 2: of the day since since you did the last show,
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 2: So I use everything. I don't know how you do it,
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 2: but after the show, you gotta give me the recipe.
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 1: I probably do a lot of the things you do
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 1: because I know you do cold plunge every day.
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 2: I love it.
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 1: I do that every morning, and I do a lot
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 1: of song of work, but I do a lot of
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 1: red light therapy. I do that at least four or
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 1: five times a week. I try to do it. I've done.
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 1: I have a hyperbaric chamber. I do that a lot.
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 1: I try to do that as many days a week
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 1: as like, I've done that two days in a row.
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 1: Now I just do it three four days a week.
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 1: If when I'm really feeling better is when I'm doing
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 1: it three or four days a week and just constantly training.
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 1: Like you have to say, can't get out of shape?
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 2: You do it, all right, you do?
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you can get out to get out of shape.
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 1: You can't get back in shape. But if you stay
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 1: in shape, it's remarkable how much you could keep it going.
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 1: Look look at Bernard Hopkins. I mean he was performing
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 1: at a world class, world championship level at fifty years
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 1: old as a boxer, which is nuts, it's insane. It's
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 1: just because of his discipline. You know, never got fat,
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 1: never got out of shape, always stayed in the gym,
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 1: never eat bad food.
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 2: Mentally, it keeps you just imbalance, just being bitter. Because
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 2: that's what I believe. Why just training in general for
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 2: everybody is so good because that's me time. Yep, that's
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 2: the time that you're working on what is good for
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 2: you and for your mental health, and you're not thinking about, Hey,
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 2: I'm at work, I'm making money to provide for the family,
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 2: or I'm doing groceries for this. No, I'm in the
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 2: gym and I'm working on me. I can turn your
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 2: phone off, listen to some music and just like work
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 2: on your body and your mental health. It's it's so good.
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 1: And the effects of it afterwards, the alleviation of anxiety
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 1: and pressure, and just how good you feel the endorphins.
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 1: I just wish people that don't do it could understand
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 1: that because so many people they just have an aversion
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 1: to the hard work, they have an aversion to like
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 1: getting there. They're just like, oh, I don't want to
• 1:17:56
  Speaker 1: do it. I don't want to do it, but if
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 1: you just do it feels so much better. And then
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 1: everybody wants to talk about discipline, and discipline is very important.
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 1: It's the most important thing probably, but almost equally important
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 1: is momentum. And once you have a few good days
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 1: in a row, the discipline is not as hard anymore.
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 1: But now you have momentum.
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, one hundred percent, you're right. But the thing is
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 2: what happens. Same with the cold plunch that we do
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 2: multiple times a week or almost every day, is like
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 2: some days the same as going to work or whatever.
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 2: You just wake up and you just do not feel
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 2: like doing it. But then the discipline comes in, like
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 2: I I do not feel like doing it, but I
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 2: am going to do it because if I can do
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 2: it on the days, then I do not feel like
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 2: doing it every other day is going to be easy.
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 2: And that's for me what I felt like, like I
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 2: was just sharing with you, like what I find so hard,
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 2: for example, with the with the losing and that that
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 2: the mistakes that I made. That's what I've been doing,
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 2: like to be honest, my whole life. That's what I'm
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 2: trying to work on now is like everything that happened
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 2: in my life, like it's been some crazies, like my
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 2: mother passed away within this preparation, and I do not
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 2: take the time to to really take that take it
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 2: in like what just happened. And I had the same
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 2: thing with my father was like right before the Bencedic fight,
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 2: and I just take it and I continue because what
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 2: I do. I take it and it's a certain emotional
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 2: pain and I use that to put it in physical
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 2: pain so I can use it as fuel for what
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 2: I do in the ring and whatever as my job.
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 2: But I feel like personally, in relationships and just in
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 2: general in just living, I think that's not the way
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 2: to cope with it. So that's what I'm trying to
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 2: work now.
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 1: So it's very difficult to be balanced if you also
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 1: want to be excellent, if you want to be the best,
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 1: you know, if you want to be and accomplish what
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 1: you've accomplished, you have to be obsessed. And if you
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 1: have to be obsessed, it's almost impossible to be balanced.
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 1: It's almost impossible to have a balanced life and also
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 1: be obsessed on a goal.
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 2: But I don't feel like it's it's so much about
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 2: the balance, but it's just not the way to cope
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 2: with with life in general, next to being an athlete
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 2: and being a fighter, which is a big part of
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 2: what you do, but just like in general, like, okay,
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 2: how do you cope with with things? Especially now with
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 2: this for example, with this loss, It's like, how do
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 2: I find a way to give this this loss and
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 2: a way of like okay that I can work with
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 2: it without like feeling frustrated or like I got robbed
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 2: or whatever. So and I feel like that's getting better.
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 2: So I watched my mom's funeral back like I think
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 2: like four or five weeks ago for the very first time.
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 2: So she passed away in February. That's when I've watched
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 2: it back for the first time, just to take it
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 2: all in again and again. I went like all the
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 2: way through it, and I'm like, Okay, I need to
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 2: to do that more to get I don't know if
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 2: it's balanced or just I don't know, just to get
• 1:21:38
  Speaker 2: like a way of feeling like, yeah, I can I
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 2: can take that emotion in because now just every time
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 2: pushing that emotion away and just using it as fuel
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 2: to be a fighter and be the best version of
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 2: me with the ring. But like as a as a person,
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 2: I don't feel like it's a healthy way to just
• 1:22:04
  Speaker 2: keep pushing everything pushing it down.
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 1: Well, it's great that you recognize that, though, and that
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 1: will definitely help you as you transition from being a
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 1: fighter to being a retired fighter and doing whatever else
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 1: you want to do. You have so much time left
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 1: in your life to do anything. Recognizing that that is
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 1: an issue, it's huge for your ability to move on
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 1: to do other things because that's a giant struggle for
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 1: a lot of fighters. The struggle, especially fighters that have
• 1:22:33
  Speaker 1: competed at your level. You know, the glory, the excitement,
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 1: the chaos of it all is so huge that to
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 1: step away from that it's very, very difficult for a
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 1: lot of guys.
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 2: That's why I'm so happy, And I also believe that
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 2: what gave me this is that I found my new
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 2: passion within acting. So being on set with Jake Chillenhall,
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 2: with Dave Patista, with Elvis Hodch and those guys being
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 2: so excellent at what they're doing as actors and then
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 2: just talking with them about this. I think that also
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 2: gave me more and more that realization of hey, instead
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 2: of just like pushing it away, I can use those
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 2: emotions and that feeling to be an actor at a
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 2: certain point. So and I always said, like I just oh,
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 2: just kept pushing it away. I don't want to feel it.
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 2: I don't want to feel it. As soon as I
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 2: feel it, I turn it into physical pain. So I
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 2: know I get to be a better version of me
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 2: within the ring. So I hear what you're saying. But
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 2: if you want to get into acting, it's good to
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 2: feel because as soon as you feel, it's even better.
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 2: It's going to transition even better on camera because then
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 2: we see that you're feeling something, and if it comes
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 2: out of your own experience, it's even better. It hurts still,
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 2: but you can turn it into something positive. And that's
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 2: where I'm really happy about. Like, after being a fighter,
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 2: I really found my new passion within acting because it's
• 1:24:12
  Speaker 2: so much fun. That's so much fun to be on
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 2: set and yeah, being great at something else.
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's great that you found something else that you're
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 1: excited about. That's really important, very important. So how many
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 1: movies have you done?
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 2: I did a few, did a few, I think like
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 2: a handful, and I think the most recognizable things I
• 1:24:30
  Speaker 2: did was then a Thieves Pantera, then Nice with Girard
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 2: and O'Shane Jackson Jr. And the last one Roadhouse. So
• 1:24:41
  Speaker 2: I now, of course I've been You've been talking with
• 1:24:44
  Speaker 2: Jason like for quite some time now to do something together.
• 1:24:48
  Speaker 2: So we're looking at different different options, like hey, we
• 1:24:51
  Speaker 2: could do this, but he's like he has a certain
• 1:24:56
  Speaker 2: focus on what he sees, like, hey, we go. I
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 2: want you to do like this type of movie, and
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 2: I want you to be this type of character because
• 1:25:05
  Speaker 2: I don't want you to die and I want you
• 1:25:07
  Speaker 2: to do this, do that. So it's yeah, for him
• 1:25:11
  Speaker 2: being so experienced within that world, I just well, also.
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 1: Him coming as an athlete as well, exactly he was
• 1:25:18
  Speaker 1: a world class diver, right yeah.
• 1:25:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and he's he's a martial arts fanatic. He loves it. Yeah,
• 1:25:26
  Speaker 2: he loves it.
• 1:25:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:25:27
  Speaker 2: So so that's yeah, that's that's amazing. So and then yeah,
• 1:25:31
  Speaker 2: telling him that like, hey, I love to act. So
• 1:25:33
  Speaker 2: he comes to my fight. I visited him on set,
• 1:25:36
  Speaker 2: like hey, I just look at what he does and
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 2: how he does it, it's yeah, it's out of the world.
• 1:25:41
  Speaker 2: It's the next level.
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 1: Well, that's so good that you have something really excited
• 1:25:45
  Speaker 1: about as you retire, like transitioning into that, and that
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 1: you already have some success with that.
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:25:52
  Speaker 1: Dave Bautista is another one, like, right, like the huge
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 1: success in w W. Went on to do that and
• 1:25:58
  Speaker 1: now he's done a ton of movies.
• 1:25:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and he's really good.
• 1:26:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he's really a very good actor.
• 1:26:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah. It's not just like, oh, he's an athlete to
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 2: try to do some acting. No, he's a really good
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 2: actor and he showed so many different sides of himself.
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 1: He was great in that.
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 2: Was it?
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 1: The glass Onion? Is that what it was called? Yeah?
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 1: The what is that? Yeah, knives out glass Onion, Right,
• 1:26:26
  Speaker 1: that's what it was called. He was great in that. Yeah,
• 1:26:28
  Speaker 1: he's great. He's I mean again, it's like you see
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 1: these big guys and you say, oh, they're big and
• 1:26:34
  Speaker 1: they're just gonna play a brute. But it's like he's
• 1:26:37
  Speaker 1: a human. Yeah, human beings have depth. You could do
• 1:26:40
  Speaker 1: a lot of different things.
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.
• 1:26:42
  Speaker 1: So he's got to he's losing weight now, just like
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 1: shows like.
• 1:26:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he looks amazing. Yeah, he's he's still being he's
• 1:26:49
  Speaker 2: still two hundred.
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 1: I mean, like, oh, he's so small, it's two forty.
• 1:26:52
  Speaker 1: He's huge.
• 1:26:53
  Speaker 2: Now he's huge, and he's in great shape. He's great.
• 1:26:55
  Speaker 2: And he's the nicest guy as well.
• 1:26:57
  Speaker 1: Oh that's cool.
• 1:26:58
  Speaker 2: He's the nicest guy. So we had we had a
• 1:27:00
  Speaker 2: lot of fun, We had a lot of funds. It
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 2: was such an honor to be there on set with
• 1:27:04
  Speaker 2: them and on such a big production. It's like, well,
• 1:27:07
  Speaker 2: I'm just looking at.
• 1:27:08
  Speaker 1: It, So how do you balance that out? Like now
• 1:27:11
  Speaker 1: that you like, as you said, you're in the winter
• 1:27:13
  Speaker 1: of your career, would you accept a movie role right
• 1:27:16
  Speaker 1: now if you knew that a big fight could potentially happen?
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 1: So you have to be careful right now?
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 2: For me, it's like I'm focused on finishing that and
• 1:27:27
  Speaker 2: as soon as as I then I have a movie,
• 1:27:29
  Speaker 2: like okay, but then I'm not going to do a fight.
• 1:27:33
  Speaker 2: It's going to be hard. So and especially within the
• 1:27:37
  Speaker 2: other one, I didn't really get the option because I
• 1:27:41
  Speaker 2: was on Roadhouse and then I got the Anthony dress
• 1:27:43
  Speaker 2: for a fight, But back then I was just the kickboxer.
• 1:27:48
  Speaker 2: The Kickboxer World Champion. But that didn't really say too much.
• 1:27:53
  Speaker 2: So I was in the underdog position. I was in
• 1:27:56
  Speaker 2: the passenger seat. Now I show what I can do,
• 1:28:00
  Speaker 2: So now I got a little more Like, Yo, guys,
• 1:28:02
  Speaker 2: I got a movie, So can we push to fight
• 1:28:04
  Speaker 2: a little bit further? So I have the time to
• 1:28:06
  Speaker 2: get ready for it. Right, So that's that's better now.
• 1:28:09
  Speaker 2: But for me, I would never blend those two together
• 1:28:14
  Speaker 2: or like, hey, okay, let me finish this movie real
• 1:28:16
  Speaker 2: quick and that can get straight into a fight camp
• 1:28:19
  Speaker 2: that's going to be like a two two and a
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 2: half months. I needed a good, like clean four months
• 1:28:23
  Speaker 2: to get ready for a fight at this magnitude.
• 1:28:27
  Speaker 1: Right, So when you're talking about these different conversations that
• 1:28:33
  Speaker 1: people have had with you, is the door completely closed
• 1:28:35
  Speaker 1: to the UFC? Because I know that they did contact
• 1:28:38
  Speaker 1: you and you were talking. They were talking about you
• 1:28:40
  Speaker 1: fighting and that they were going to try to do
• 1:28:43
  Speaker 1: that Derek Lewis fight and I was excited about that. Yeah,
• 1:28:45
  Speaker 1: but too, the money was nowhere near. I'm sure the
• 1:28:48
  Speaker 1: money is.
• 1:28:49
  Speaker 2: After this, So I believe that that the gap is
• 1:28:52
  Speaker 2: even bigger. Yeah, sure, So I think that's that's where
• 1:28:57
  Speaker 2: that's what the actual problem is, just to be completely transparent.
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 2: So for me, it doesn't make any sense to go
• 1:29:05
  Speaker 2: around the bullshe.
• 1:29:06
  Speaker 1: And go backward us.
• 1:29:07
  Speaker 2: No, financially, if if they would want to do something,
• 1:29:12
  Speaker 2: it really has to make sense. But yeah, we all
• 1:29:14
  Speaker 2: know that. Yeah, that's not really like how the UFC works.
• 1:29:18
  Speaker 2: So I don't believe that that is an option.
• 1:29:22
  Speaker 1: That's because the heavyweight division is So have you ever
• 1:29:27
  Speaker 1: worked with Tom aspinall?
• 1:29:28
  Speaker 2: Of course, he's a very good friend of mine. We trained, Yeah,
• 1:29:34
  Speaker 2: we trained so much already for like I think close
• 1:29:36
  Speaker 2: to ten years.
• 1:29:37
  Speaker 1: Man, he got a bad deal. He got really fucked
• 1:29:39
  Speaker 1: over for that that fight, you know the way people
• 1:29:43
  Speaker 1: got upset at him for stopping the fight with those
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 1: I pokes. That to me, that drove me crazy, Like
• 1:29:50
  Speaker 1: what do you expect the guy to do? He's defending
• 1:29:53
  Speaker 1: the heavyweight title. He gets poked in the eyes and
• 1:29:55
  Speaker 1: he can't fucking see and he's had two eye surgery
• 1:29:57
  Speaker 1: since then.
• 1:29:58
  Speaker 2: And he's he's a nice this guy, he's the nicest guy,
• 1:30:01
  Speaker 2: and he works incredibly hard and he would never never
• 1:30:06
  Speaker 2: even though because I understand where it comes from from
• 1:30:10
  Speaker 2: the people to a certain extent, because they feel like, hey,
• 1:30:14
  Speaker 2: God was doing so good in the beginning of the fight.
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 2: But it was just the beginning of the fight. It
• 1:30:19
  Speaker 2: was just like the first round or whatever. So it's
• 1:30:22
  Speaker 2: possible that, hey, because of some ring rush, you have
• 1:30:25
  Speaker 2: to get into it and then the fight ain't over
• 1:30:27
  Speaker 2: tis over right, So you can have an opinion about that.
• 1:30:31
  Speaker 2: The first round, I know, I get an ipoke. Oh,
• 1:30:33
  Speaker 2: now he's gonna stop because he knew he was behind
• 1:30:35
  Speaker 2: or whatever. He would never, never, in whatever world do
• 1:30:40
  Speaker 2: that because he has.
• 1:30:42
  Speaker 1: Got the ipoke because he was knuckled deep in his eye.
• 1:30:46
  Speaker 1: I was like, gone, Yeah, I mean, unly, Cyril gone
• 1:30:50
  Speaker 1: has a history of doing that.
• 1:30:51
  Speaker 2: He's also and definitely, I truly be because I know
• 1:30:54
  Speaker 2: Cyril as well. He's also a very nice guy. And
• 1:30:56
  Speaker 2: I do not believe he's doing that intentionally to fuck
• 1:31:02
  Speaker 2: with people or whatever.
• 1:31:03
  Speaker 1: It's just a bad instinct that keeps happening, you know,
• 1:31:07
  Speaker 1: or where you're doing this, yeah, and you're running right
• 1:31:11
  Speaker 1: into eyeballs. It's just they they need to stop doing it,
• 1:31:15
  Speaker 1: you know. I Mean, there's there's a bunch of different
• 1:31:18
  Speaker 1: conversations about how to stop it. One of them has
• 1:31:20
  Speaker 1: changed the gloves you don't need open fingers like that
• 1:31:25
  Speaker 1: they don't have. You don't need that for grappling. No,
• 1:31:27
  Speaker 1: they could cover the tip of it like a mitten,
• 1:31:29
  Speaker 1: you know, And there's there's a way to do that
• 1:31:31
  Speaker 1: where it would probably eliminate a lot of the ie pokes.
• 1:31:34
  Speaker 1: Another one is is a guy named Trevor Whitman from
• 1:31:37
  Speaker 1: on ex Sports is justin Gatgee trainer who makes a
• 1:31:40
  Speaker 1: much better glove. In his glove, your hand is in
• 1:31:43
  Speaker 1: this position all the time instead of the UFC glove,
• 1:31:46
  Speaker 1: you glove your hands like this. You have to pull
• 1:31:49
  Speaker 1: it down to tighten up the fist and this with
• 1:31:53
  Speaker 1: Trevor's gloves, it's curved like this. This is this So
• 1:31:57
  Speaker 1: you would like when multi fighters like zeal Gone they
• 1:32:01
  Speaker 1: frame off like that all this. Yeah right, you know that. Yeah,
• 1:32:03
  Speaker 1: so when you have those UFC gloves you're framing off
• 1:32:06
  Speaker 1: like this, that's when you're running into ipokes, you know.
• 1:32:09
  Speaker 1: So they try to tell you keep your fingers up,
• 1:32:11
  Speaker 1: which is great, but sometimes it doesn't make you exactly
• 1:32:14
  Speaker 1: you're leaning away. Yeah, you know, I don't think Cereal
• 1:32:17
  Speaker 1: Gone is a dirty fighter. I just think he's trying
• 1:32:19
  Speaker 1: to finish fights like Alex Pereira thought he was dirty
• 1:32:22
  Speaker 1: for hitting him in the back of the head, and
• 1:32:24
  Speaker 1: I watched the fight over again to watch it, and
• 1:32:26
  Speaker 1: what I saw is Alex is moving, Cereal's trying to
• 1:32:30
  Speaker 1: hit him, and sometimes when that happens, some of the
• 1:32:33
  Speaker 1: shots are going to land.
• 1:32:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but is that the referee that needs to like
• 1:32:38
  Speaker 2: say like, hey stop it. Yes, yeah, we're fighting, so
• 1:32:41
  Speaker 2: you gotta check what you get.
• 1:32:43
  Speaker 1: But it's hard because you're also like you, he might
• 1:32:46
  Speaker 1: not have the best position to see it because it's chaos.
• 1:32:49
  Speaker 1: And also like, if you're trying to hit like a
• 1:32:52
  Speaker 1: guy right here and then his head moves and then
• 1:32:54
  Speaker 1: you hit the back of the head, whose fault is that?
• 1:32:57
  Speaker 1: Is that your fault that you're supposed to pull back
• 1:32:59
  Speaker 1: you're in the mid a shot. It's very difficult to stop.
• 1:33:02
  Speaker 1: It's hard to say, but when you look at his
• 1:33:04
  Speaker 1: performance in that fight against al Prayer, it was fucking extraordinary.
• 1:33:08
  Speaker 2: Man.
• 1:33:09
  Speaker 1: He's We were as a group chat I have with
• 1:33:12
  Speaker 1: a few friends of mine, Dean Thomas and Matt Sarah
• 1:33:15
  Speaker 1: and John Rawler. We do a podcast together and we're
• 1:33:17
  Speaker 1: just talking about it how basketball is a phenomenal base
• 1:33:22
  Speaker 1: for some of these guys because Cyril gone, I'm gonna
• 1:33:25
  Speaker 1: show you. I'll send you this video. I'll send it
• 1:33:28
  Speaker 1: to Jamie. Cyril gone, can't fucking move man, and some
• 1:33:31
  Speaker 1: of the light. And he's two hundred and fifty pounds,
• 1:33:36
  Speaker 1: but it's the way he moves is so extraordinary. And
• 1:33:39
  Speaker 1: I think some of that is because of basketball, because yeah,
• 1:33:43
  Speaker 1: well no, it's not that one.
• 1:33:45
  Speaker 3: It's a pretty new video.
• 1:33:46
  Speaker 1: He's playing against the NBA center. Oh man, there's multiple
• 1:33:50
  Speaker 1: videos of it then, because he's I mean, he's pretty sick,
• 1:33:55
  Speaker 1: but that's one of them.
• 1:33:56
  Speaker 2: I was with him. We did a little movie moving
• 1:34:00
  Speaker 2: around together Den of Thieves. Uh two, Oh he was,
• 1:34:05
  Speaker 2: he was in there. We were in the scene together.
• 1:34:07
  Speaker 2: So that was fun.
• 1:34:08
  Speaker 1: It's just having a guy.
• 1:34:09
  Speaker 2: He's such a nice guy.
• 1:34:10
  Speaker 1: He's like so light, so light, he moves around so
• 1:34:14
  Speaker 1: like and so hard to hit. Man, it doesn't he's
• 1:34:16
  Speaker 1: never been in trouble in the fight. I mean, he
• 1:34:18
  Speaker 1: got finished by John Jones, but that was a submission
• 1:34:20
  Speaker 1: and Frances and Gano just beat him by grambling. But
• 1:34:24
  Speaker 1: he's never been like rocked or staggered.
• 1:34:26
  Speaker 2: He hardly because no, because his movement, especially for a
• 1:34:30
  Speaker 2: for a big guy. But that's why I believe. But
• 1:34:33
  Speaker 2: Tom has that as well.
• 1:34:34
  Speaker 1: Yes, he has that move he is like his flits
• 1:34:37
  Speaker 1: is extraordinary. His ability to cover distance is insane. And
• 1:34:41
  Speaker 1: he's got one punch knockout power.
• 1:34:42
  Speaker 2: He's so explosive. He can that. That's I believe he can.
• 1:34:47
  Speaker 2: He can be a good boxer, but he can also
• 1:34:49
  Speaker 2: be a good kickboxer. And he's a good MMA fighter.
• 1:34:52
  Speaker 2: He's so all around because when he he comes to kick,
• 1:34:55
  Speaker 2: when he came to kickbox, wow, well he's so.
• 1:34:59
  Speaker 1: I I just hate that fans reacted the way they reacted.
• 1:35:02
  Speaker 1: And it's the casual ones, it's the shitheads, you know.
• 1:35:05
  Speaker 1: I For me, I was like, God, you got to
• 1:35:07
  Speaker 1: give the guy some grace. He got his eye poked out.
• 1:35:10
  Speaker 1: I mean he literally was knuckled deep in his eyes.
• 1:35:14
  Speaker 1: For him to for anyone to think that he should
• 1:35:18
  Speaker 1: be fighting with one eye like that, who cares to
• 1:35:22
  Speaker 1: keep fighting? Insane. He got fouled. It's not because of
• 1:35:26
  Speaker 1: a punch, it's not because of he got kicked or
• 1:35:28
  Speaker 1: an elbow. It's a foul and so no, the fight
• 1:35:32
  Speaker 1: should have been stopped the way it was, and that's
• 1:35:35
  Speaker 1: that everybody should understand. That it's not his fault, it
• 1:35:38
  Speaker 1: was his opponent's fault.
• 1:35:39
  Speaker 2: But how he got to this was like because of
• 1:35:41
  Speaker 2: the whole deal he has, Like, how much sense does
• 1:35:45
  Speaker 2: it make for me to get into the UFC because
• 1:35:49
  Speaker 2: Connor got like a great deal now for his last fight.
• 1:35:53
  Speaker 1: No, for you, boxing makes the most sense, especially at
• 1:35:56
  Speaker 1: this point in your life financially, and you know, for
• 1:36:00
  Speaker 1: I mean he look, he has a potential career in
• 1:36:02
  Speaker 1: boxing as well, and now that Eddie Hearn is managing him,
• 1:36:06
  Speaker 1: which is very exciting because you know, match Room being
• 1:36:09
  Speaker 1: behind him is going to have a gigantic hype machine,
• 1:36:12
  Speaker 1: gigantic promotion. Look, I think it's huge and that they're
• 1:36:16
  Speaker 1: at odds with the UFC. Like for me, I care
• 1:36:19
  Speaker 1: about the fighters making the most money possible, exactly, and
• 1:36:22
  Speaker 1: that's how he's going to make the most money possible.
• 1:36:25
  Speaker 2: But like you said, that's what I believe that all
• 1:36:27
  Speaker 2: the fighters deserve. The fighters that that bring in the
• 1:36:31
  Speaker 2: viewers that aren't exciting, Yeah, they should earn a little
• 1:36:36
  Speaker 2: bit more, right. That is, everything should be in balance.
• 1:36:40
  Speaker 1: And that's I mean, this is where Turkey al Shaikh
• 1:36:44
  Speaker 1: has really ramped up the game, really raised the bar
• 1:36:48
  Speaker 1: because he's getting guys to fight they didn't want to
• 1:36:51
  Speaker 1: fight each other exactly, and he's like, how about this
• 1:36:54
  Speaker 1: amount exactly?
• 1:36:55
  Speaker 2: Okay, Okay, there we go. But that but that's how
• 1:36:59
  Speaker 2: we got the biggest fight. But but next to that
• 1:37:02
  Speaker 2: with him giving media opportunity as well, what he does
• 1:37:08
  Speaker 2: is he thinks outside of the box. And that's what
• 1:37:12
  Speaker 2: I love so much about what he does. Because we
• 1:37:16
  Speaker 2: had to also the the Francis Nigato ties a Hury.
• 1:37:19
  Speaker 1: Fight and that was also like crazy, right, I don't
• 1:37:23
  Speaker 1: know about that zero professional boxing matches for Francis exactly right.
• 1:37:29
  Speaker 2: And that decision was also a little bit of controversial.
• 1:37:32
  Speaker 1: Controversial I don't know.
• 1:37:34
  Speaker 2: So, But that's why I like what he does. He
• 1:37:38
  Speaker 2: thinks outside of the box. Like, hey, I like this idea, let's.
• 1:37:42
  Speaker 1: Just try Terrence Crawford versus Canalo Alvas. That's way outside
• 1:37:46
  Speaker 1: the box. You got a guy moving up too weight classes, yeah,
• 1:37:50
  Speaker 1: to fight at all time? Great? I mean it was
• 1:37:52
  Speaker 1: and a lot of people thought Canlo's too big, Canl's
• 1:37:54
  Speaker 1: too big?
• 1:37:55
  Speaker 2: Wow, it was an amazing fight.
• 1:37:56
  Speaker 1: Oh my god. Sarence Crawford is one of the greatest
• 1:38:00
  Speaker 1: of all time. He's so smooth, so good when he
• 1:38:04
  Speaker 1: was just Pa Pa pap rip and doing that to wow,
• 1:38:10
  Speaker 1: Oh my goodness. It was amazing to watch. To watch
• 1:38:13
  Speaker 1: a guy that's that skillful and have those skills and
• 1:38:17
  Speaker 1: you know, move up multiple weight classes. Yeah, incredible and
• 1:38:20
  Speaker 1: pulled off against a guy like Canelo.
• 1:38:22
  Speaker 2: And everybody said like, oh, he's not gonna get He's
• 1:38:24
  Speaker 2: not gonna have a shot because Canado is gonna be
• 1:38:26
  Speaker 2: too big. As soon as he as he had it,
• 1:38:28
  Speaker 2: he's gonna get rocked. And he's like, no, I think
• 1:38:30
  Speaker 2: uh no. That was That was incredible and they were
• 1:38:33
  Speaker 2: they were all at the fight, by the way.
• 1:38:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that was also Terrence is very smart and Terrence
• 1:38:40
  Speaker 1: prepared for that fight for like a year and put
• 1:38:43
  Speaker 1: on some weight, but not too much. You know, he
• 1:38:45
  Speaker 1: just lifted but just enough. But just Also he was
• 1:38:50
  Speaker 1: healthier because he didn't have to cut so much weight.
• 1:38:52
  Speaker 1: That's the thing to take into consideration. You got a
• 1:38:55
  Speaker 1: guy who's cutting all that weight to make all the
• 1:38:58
  Speaker 1: different weight classes that he was champion way up to
• 1:39:00
  Speaker 1: one fifty four, and also he doesn't have to cut weight. Well,
• 1:39:02
  Speaker 1: guess what, he's probably walking around one seventy six anyway.
• 1:39:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so so it.
• 1:39:09
  Speaker 1: Was probably a better performance for him physically, he probably
• 1:39:12
  Speaker 1: felt much better. Yeah, he's also used to faster guys,
• 1:39:15
  Speaker 1: and he's sold light on his feet at.
• 1:39:19
  Speaker 2: That was so exciting. So that's what, Yeah, what he does,
• 1:39:22
  Speaker 2: he makes the fights that otherwise would have been made, right, So,
• 1:39:28
  Speaker 2: and I think I respect him for that so much
• 1:39:32
  Speaker 2: and I'm thankful for that as well. So let's see
• 1:39:36
  Speaker 2: what he's gonna pull out of the head this time.
• 1:39:37
  Speaker 1: For me, Well, I mean for sure, now people are
• 1:39:41
  Speaker 1: going to be excited about you fighting again, and uh,
• 1:39:45
  Speaker 1: it's even more marketable by far than the first fight was.
• 1:39:50
  Speaker 1: I just hope it's a rematch. I really do, because
• 1:39:51
  Speaker 1: I think that's the just fight to have. Yeah, that's
• 1:39:54
  Speaker 1: the correct fight to have a rematch. When a fight
• 1:39:57
  Speaker 1: is that close and ends that controversially and then the
• 1:40:00
  Speaker 1: judging is the scoring is that bad? The right thing
• 1:40:05
  Speaker 1: to do is to have a rematch.
• 1:40:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And then in a different like I said, in
• 1:40:09
  Speaker 2: a different environment and different situation.
• 1:40:12
  Speaker 1: That Vegas or Mason Square Garden.
• 1:40:15
  Speaker 2: I gotta be honest, Joe, they are both still on
• 1:40:18
  Speaker 2: the bucket list. Yeah, I thought in New York, but
• 1:40:21
  Speaker 2: it was like I don't know, in a ballroom something
• 1:40:24
  Speaker 2: I don't I can't even remember what it was, but
• 1:40:26
  Speaker 2: it's I think twenty twelve or something. So uh. Yeah,
• 1:40:31
  Speaker 2: Madison Square Garden and Vegas are still on the on
• 1:40:34
  Speaker 2: the bucket list.
• 1:40:34
  Speaker 1: Vegas is great, but Madison Square Garden is iconic. There's
• 1:40:38
  Speaker 1: something about being in that building. Every time we have fights,
• 1:40:41
  Speaker 1: we do a UFC in that building, it's like, wow,
• 1:40:44
  Speaker 1: we're in the garden like that. That is a special place.
• 1:40:47
  Speaker 2: There's so many things that happened there. Colcerts and basketball.
• 1:40:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so many concerts, so many fights, so many everything.
• 1:40:55
  Speaker 1: It's just and it's also in New York City. And
• 1:40:59
  Speaker 1: as much as New York City is crazy and it's
• 1:41:01
  Speaker 1: like it's beat beat in Hong Kong and fuck you,
• 1:41:04
  Speaker 1: it's still New York motherfucking city. And to have a
• 1:41:09
  Speaker 1: great World Championship fight in New York City is something special.
• 1:41:13
  Speaker 1: There's something you feel different when they say live from
• 1:41:16
  Speaker 1: Madison Square Gardens.
• 1:41:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, when you when you're in.
• 1:41:23
  Speaker 1: The room when we have fights there, being in the
• 1:41:25
  Speaker 1: room feels different.
• 1:41:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but that's also one of the things that he
• 1:41:30
  Speaker 2: did a fight on Times Square.
• 1:41:34
  Speaker 1: I know who.
• 1:41:35
  Speaker 2: Thinks of that, and the thing is for him. I
• 1:41:39
  Speaker 2: believe that whenever you when he when you hear something
• 1:41:42
  Speaker 2: and you say, nah, that's not possible, I think that's
• 1:41:46
  Speaker 2: the right trigger. He does the exactly the trigger he needs,
• 1:41:49
  Speaker 2: like I'll make it possible. I'll make it happen. It's
• 1:41:52
  Speaker 2: the same with the Pyramids and then with the with
• 1:41:55
  Speaker 2: the Times Square, it's like, nah, don't think that's gonna happen.
• 1:41:58
  Speaker 1: Well, they have a bottom less account.
• 1:42:02
  Speaker 2: That's the things like they can just they make things possitive.
• 1:42:06
  Speaker 1: They just throw so much money at guys like and
• 1:42:09
  Speaker 1: that is exciting. I mean, that's something that boxing has
• 1:42:11
  Speaker 1: needed because it's Look, it took so long to get
• 1:42:15
  Speaker 1: Floyd maywere they're to fight Manny pacyaw Right. That was
• 1:42:17
  Speaker 1: a gigantic fight. It took forever, and arguably Manny was
• 1:42:21
  Speaker 1: past his prime when they wound up actually fighting again,
• 1:42:24
  Speaker 1: which pissed a lot of people off. If they had
• 1:42:27
  Speaker 1: been around back then, If Turkey Alas Shake had been
• 1:42:30
  Speaker 1: around back then, they and Riat Season has been around,
• 1:42:32
  Speaker 1: have been around back then, they probably would have made
• 1:42:34
  Speaker 1: that happen. When they're in their prime. That's what that's
• 1:42:38
  Speaker 1: what boxing needs. That's what MMA needs, that's what everybody needs.
• 1:42:42
  Speaker 1: The UFC does that in MMA, they kind of forced
• 1:42:44
  Speaker 1: guys to fight. You can't get away from it.
• 1:42:47
  Speaker 2: No only to pay days different, but.
• 1:42:49
  Speaker 1: Yes, but you know at the highest levels, guys like Connor,
• 1:42:53
  Speaker 1: they're making similar money. But it's just that that needs
• 1:42:55
  Speaker 1: to change in terms of it has to be like,
• 1:42:58
  Speaker 1: it has to be enticing enough that you're going to
• 1:43:00
  Speaker 1: get the best athletes that realize like, hey, I don't
• 1:43:03
  Speaker 1: have to go into basketball. I don't have to go
• 1:43:05
  Speaker 1: What I really like is fighting, like and the and
• 1:43:08
  Speaker 1: there's enough money in fighting now like everything else.
• 1:43:12
  Speaker 2: But that's the problem, like we just talked about we
• 1:43:14
  Speaker 2: started off with with the whole kickboxing, there's no money
• 1:43:18
  Speaker 2: to be made.
• 1:43:19
  Speaker 1: Right, that is the problem. So well I made maybe
• 1:43:23
  Speaker 1: can figure that out because you know, they're they're dedicated
• 1:43:26
  Speaker 1: to entering into the mm A space now and they
• 1:43:28
  Speaker 1: just merged with the PFL. But I think it's very
• 1:43:30
  Speaker 1: exciting because I think competition is good. Competition is great,
• 1:43:34
  Speaker 1: and the more competition the better, and definitely better for
• 1:43:38
  Speaker 1: the fighters to have options. And they've got guys over
• 1:43:41
  Speaker 1: there in the PFL now that are fucking world class man.
• 1:43:46
  Speaker 1: They've got some world class fighters, so it's exciting. It's
• 1:43:50
  Speaker 1: exciting to have it. Just they just need to get
• 1:43:52
  Speaker 1: bigger in terms of the public's recognition exactly. So right
• 1:43:55
  Speaker 1: now everybody thinks of UFC, of being MM a UFC.
• 1:43:58
  Speaker 1: It's like PFL for the average casuals, like what who's that?
• 1:44:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah? What do you do?
• 1:44:03
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 1:44:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah? But I think, to be honest, Joe, if we
• 1:44:06
  Speaker 2: look at ten years ago, combat sports is at its
• 1:44:11
  Speaker 2: all time high, boxing, MMA, kickboxing, everything is like going
• 1:44:17
  Speaker 2: through the roof.
• 1:44:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think everything is bigger than I.
• 1:44:19
  Speaker 2: Think we're We're in a very blessed position.
• 1:44:22
  Speaker 1: Well, twenty years ago, nobody even knew what MMA was.
• 1:44:25
  Speaker 1: Twenty one years ago was the first Ultimate Fighter Season one,
• 1:44:29
  Speaker 1: two thousand and five, and that was really when MMA
• 1:44:31
  Speaker 1: kind of made it onto the map in terms of
• 1:44:33
  Speaker 1: the general public understanding of from the Ultimate Fighter and
• 1:44:37
  Speaker 1: that Stephan Bonnard Forrest Griffin fight. But you could see
• 1:44:41
  Speaker 1: a world where kickboxing could enter into that, you know,
• 1:44:45
  Speaker 1: ten years from now being the same a similar category,
• 1:44:47
  Speaker 1: and I think it should be, I really do.
• 1:44:49
  Speaker 2: It is just because of the modern day world, because
• 1:44:53
  Speaker 2: of social media and so many different people coming into
• 1:44:58
  Speaker 2: this sport and people can say to have an opinion
• 1:45:01
  Speaker 2: about it. But for example with with with Jake Paul
• 1:45:05
  Speaker 2: and etcetera, and all the influencers. But they're bringing a
• 1:45:09
  Speaker 2: lot of new eyes to the sport.
• 1:45:11
  Speaker 1: To boxing, a lot of new eyes. But could you
• 1:45:15
  Speaker 1: imagine if an organization got behind a guy like Ramon
• 1:45:19
  Speaker 1: Deckers and showed him to the American public when he
• 1:45:23
  Speaker 1: was in his prime, he would be like, holy shit,
• 1:45:27
  Speaker 1: who is this guy? This fucking monster, this animal, this
• 1:45:33
  Speaker 1: technical animal. You know, Like that's the thing. That's the
• 1:45:37
  Speaker 1: thing about where you come from too. Like for people
• 1:45:40
  Speaker 1: that don't know kickboxing and Holland, that is the epicenter
• 1:45:44
  Speaker 1: of world championship kickboxing. I mean, Rob Kaman, Ernesto Hughes, you,
• 1:45:51
  Speaker 1: I mean so Peter, Oh my god, you could go
• 1:45:54
  Speaker 1: on and on and on and on and on. So
• 1:45:56
  Speaker 1: many of the greatest kickboxers, of course Ramon Deckers, but
• 1:45:59
  Speaker 1: some one of the greatest kickboxes of all time came
• 1:46:02
  Speaker 1: from Holland, you know. I mean we mentioned botr Hari.
• 1:46:07
  Speaker 1: I mean, so many of these great Melvin Manhoove, so
• 1:46:10
  Speaker 1: many of these great guys came out of Holland. It's
• 1:46:13
  Speaker 1: kind of nuts if you really think about it.
• 1:46:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that we're such a small country. But and everybody
• 1:46:20
  Speaker 2: exchanges their intelligence with each other. And I believe that
• 1:46:26
  Speaker 2: because we're such a small country, that's what increases the
• 1:46:30
  Speaker 2: level so much. Everybody trains also with each other. Go there,
• 1:46:33
  Speaker 2: we go sparring with them. We go sparring with them,
• 1:46:35
  Speaker 2: go sparing with them. And then you learned this from
• 1:46:39
  Speaker 2: that guy. You learned that from that guy. And if
• 1:46:41
  Speaker 2: you do that, for example, in the US, you want
• 1:46:43
  Speaker 2: to train with somebody out from New York, you gotta
• 1:46:46
  Speaker 2: fly all the way there. You're not to stay there
• 1:46:48
  Speaker 2: too long. I think it just takes too much time.
• 1:46:50
  Speaker 2: And because in our country we can just drive anywhere.
• 1:46:55
  Speaker 2: But it's also one of the reasons White pay per
• 1:46:57
  Speaker 2: view never worked there because if they if they wanted
• 1:47:01
  Speaker 2: to to visit an event, just drive there. Like I'm
• 1:47:05
  Speaker 2: not gonna stay home and pay for it's many sense,
• 1:47:08
  Speaker 2: I'll just drive there and just go watch it live.
• 1:47:11
  Speaker 1: Well, that's also why the crowds are so huge. Yes,
• 1:47:13
  Speaker 1: you guys got massive crowds of those kicks.
• 1:47:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:47:17
  Speaker 1: If people don't know in America, they don't know how
• 1:47:20
  Speaker 1: big kickboxing is in Holland in the Netherlands, it's gigantic.
• 1:47:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, no, it's like I think number two sport.
• 1:47:28
  Speaker 1: That's crazy or sucker. Isn't that funny?
• 1:47:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 1:47:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's kind of crazy if you think about it.
• 1:47:34
  Speaker 1: It's such a small how many people even live in.
• 1:47:36
  Speaker 2: Holland, sixteen seventy million, Yeah.
• 1:47:42
  Speaker 1: That's nuts. It's a small country with the greatest kickboxers
• 1:47:46
  Speaker 1: of all time. It's like it's an anomaly. It's very weird. Yeah,
• 1:47:50
  Speaker 1: very weird how it happened.
• 1:47:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and also like I think this now for the
• 1:47:54
  Speaker 2: last I think after like for the less ten years,
• 1:47:58
  Speaker 2: it's we've been so good in keyboxing for the last
• 1:48:03
  Speaker 2: twenty five years or even longer. But now since the
• 1:48:08
  Speaker 2: last ten years, it's been recognized as well for the public.
• 1:48:13
  Speaker 2: We've always been good at it, but it's always been like,
• 1:48:15
  Speaker 2: I don't know, a little bit shady or whatever. And
• 1:48:18
  Speaker 2: now since the last ten years, since me and Bater
• 1:48:21
  Speaker 2: like put it on the map, just explode it and
• 1:48:26
  Speaker 2: everybody just yeah went behind it, like wow, this is cool,
• 1:48:30
  Speaker 2: this is cool to watch. We're good at this, we're
• 1:48:33
  Speaker 2: were were the best in the world at this point.
• 1:48:36
  Speaker 1: Are there gyms all over the place in Holland.
• 1:48:39
  Speaker 2: It was crazy. At a certain point, he went, it
• 1:48:42
  Speaker 2: was so crazy that every random guy could become a
• 1:48:46
  Speaker 2: kickboxing teacher. So now because it's because it became so
• 1:48:51
  Speaker 2: big and so public, they started to do it like okay,
• 1:48:55
  Speaker 2: you got you gotta get like a like a diploma
• 1:48:59
  Speaker 2: and a certificate to become a ky boxing trainer. You
• 1:49:01
  Speaker 2: can have just random saying like hey, I'm a keyboxing
• 1:49:03
  Speaker 2: train started kickboxing and start teaching people. But at a
• 1:49:06
  Speaker 2: certain point that was that was the case. Wow, yeah,
• 1:49:09
  Speaker 2: it was crazy.
• 1:49:11
  Speaker 1: So what happened. How did Holland become so big in kickboxing?
• 1:49:15
  Speaker 2: I think they yeah, with Ramon Deckers and everything. They
• 1:49:19
  Speaker 2: went to uh yeah, to Thailand and just like sucked
• 1:49:25
  Speaker 2: all the information out of that and we had fighters
• 1:49:29
  Speaker 2: trainers going there and they took like the muy Thai
• 1:49:34
  Speaker 2: of it, and they took that to the to the
• 1:49:37
  Speaker 2: Netherlands and then like exchange, like I said, because the
• 1:49:39
  Speaker 2: country is so small, they exchange everything with each other,
• 1:49:43
  Speaker 2: like this guy learned that, that guy learned that. And
• 1:49:45
  Speaker 2: if you exchange that with with each other, you just
• 1:49:47
  Speaker 2: get better and you get smarter.
• 1:49:49
  Speaker 1: But it also has to be something about the culture.
• 1:49:51
  Speaker 2: Maybe yeah, we're we're pretty big people, pretty.
• 1:49:56
  Speaker 1: Big people, but rob can't I mean, excuse me. Romon
• 1:49:59
  Speaker 1: Deckers was not He.
• 1:50:00
  Speaker 2: Was not big.
• 1:50:01
  Speaker 1: Which was one of the most extraordinary parts of his
• 1:50:04
  Speaker 1: career was that he was competing against ties.
• 1:50:07
  Speaker 2: But yeah, yeah, that was that was insane with elbows
• 1:50:12
  Speaker 2: and U huh. It was brutal.
• 1:50:14
  Speaker 1: But his boxing too, was a giant factor. Explosive, so explosive,
• 1:50:19
  Speaker 1: and his style was so aggressive, like he was like
• 1:50:23
  Speaker 1: just kept on. He was feral. He was just like
• 1:50:26
  Speaker 1: the people who haven't seen please go to YouTube and
• 1:50:29
  Speaker 1: watch Ramon Deckers highlights. Who yeah, oh my god, some
• 1:50:34
  Speaker 1: of the highlights of his his knockout highlights, like holy.
• 1:50:37
  Speaker 2: Ship man, it's incredible.
• 1:50:40
  Speaker 1: Everything was designed to kill you. Every shot, every leg kick,
• 1:50:45
  Speaker 1: every liver shot, every punch to the face. Everything was
• 1:50:48
  Speaker 1: just full speed ahead, power, explosive smash. His ankle was
• 1:50:54
  Speaker 1: so fucked up that his doctor told him, like, you
• 1:50:57
  Speaker 1: can't keep kicking with that thing, like you're gonna like
• 1:50:59
  Speaker 1: lose your ankle. Fucking taped it up and still blasting.
• 1:51:03
  Speaker 2: He was like a kid and I was watching these
• 1:51:06
  Speaker 2: these fights like, oh my god, it was And then
• 1:51:10
  Speaker 2: with him being so explosive and then kicking on a
• 1:51:14
  Speaker 2: on a block, on a knee or on an elbows,
• 1:51:19
  Speaker 2: just like oh it's just bone on boning. Uh oh
• 1:51:22
  Speaker 2: just just by looking at his hurts.
• 1:51:25
  Speaker 1: Just destroyed his ankle because of that. I mean in
• 1:51:27
  Speaker 1: his later fights later in his years, like when he
• 1:51:29
  Speaker 1: fought Dwayne Ludwig, I mean he had to have his
• 1:51:32
  Speaker 1: ankle tamped all over the fucking place. The big thing
• 1:51:35
  Speaker 1: was like hanging on by a thread.
• 1:51:36
  Speaker 2: But that's that's what we were talking about like earlier.
• 1:51:41
  Speaker 2: It's like we as fighters putting our health on the
• 1:51:46
  Speaker 2: line for entertainment.
• 1:51:50
  Speaker 1: I mean forever. He died young, Yeah.
• 1:51:52
  Speaker 2: He died young, But okay, that that happens, you do.
• 1:51:55
  Speaker 2: You do that because you love the sport. But then yeah,
• 1:51:58
  Speaker 2: everything needs to be transparent and it needs to be
• 1:52:01
  Speaker 2: safe and the judge, yeah it needs to be It
• 1:52:04
  Speaker 2: needs to be invest money wise and with the judging
• 1:52:07
  Speaker 2: and everything just needs to be. Yeah, it needs to
• 1:52:10
  Speaker 2: be right because what we do is out of this world. Yes,
• 1:52:15
  Speaker 2: and it's not just kickboxing, it's boxing. It's emma, that's
• 1:52:18
  Speaker 2: what as that's what we do.
• 1:52:20
  Speaker 1: The reason why it's so exciting It's part of the
• 1:52:23
  Speaker 1: reason why it's so exciting is we know how dangerous.
• 1:52:25
  Speaker 2: It is exactly. But and that's why I feel like
• 1:52:28
  Speaker 2: it has to be it has to be fair, and
• 1:52:30
  Speaker 2: it needs to be compensated the right way.
• 1:52:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:52:34
  Speaker 2: So everybody's like, oh, he's making so much money yet, Okay,
• 1:52:37
  Speaker 2: but he can only he can't do that till he's
• 1:52:39
  Speaker 2: sixty five or whatever.
• 1:52:40
  Speaker 1: So yeah, Yeah, there's such a small window, which is
• 1:52:44
  Speaker 1: one of the things that's so extraordinary about your career
• 1:52:47
  Speaker 1: that you've managed to stay on top for so long. Yeah,
• 1:52:49
  Speaker 1: Because generally, when we look at world class fighters, there's
• 1:52:54
  Speaker 1: a rule that a lot of experts supposedly have said
• 1:52:59
  Speaker 1: is that about nine years, you can only really compete
• 1:53:03
  Speaker 1: in your prime for nine years. You've shown yourself to
• 1:53:08
  Speaker 1: be an exception to that rule because you've been competing
• 1:53:10
  Speaker 1: in your prime for a lot longer than that. Yeah,
• 1:53:13
  Speaker 1: and you're not dropping off at all, and you weren't
• 1:53:16
  Speaker 1: dropping off. You're still dominating kickboxing when you decide to
• 1:53:19
  Speaker 1: step away. So it's like, even though you are an
• 1:53:23
  Speaker 1: outlier and that you've been able to extend it longer
• 1:53:26
  Speaker 1: than anybody, it's still there's a window You're not gonna
• 1:53:28
  Speaker 1: be able to do this with your fifty. You know,
• 1:53:30
  Speaker 1: you're not gonna be able to do this for your sixty.
• 1:53:31
  Speaker 1: It's like you have a small window where you can compete,
• 1:53:35
  Speaker 1: and it's the people are paying to see you. They're
• 1:53:38
  Speaker 1: not paying to see the promoter, They're not paying to
• 1:53:41
  Speaker 1: see anything else. They're not paying to hear the commentators.
• 1:53:44
  Speaker 1: They're paying to see the fighters perform as the very
• 1:53:47
  Speaker 1: highest level of the most exciting sport on Earth.
• 1:53:51
  Speaker 2: But it's why I'm saying this because it's it's not
• 1:53:55
  Speaker 2: as much for me anymore, because I'm close to being finished,
• 1:54:00
  Speaker 2: right you know, Like like we said, I'm in the
• 1:54:02
  Speaker 2: winner of my career. But it's for the next generation. Yes,
• 1:54:06
  Speaker 2: the next generation should be excited to get into combat sports.
• 1:54:11
  Speaker 2: I feel like, hey, I want to do this because
• 1:54:14
  Speaker 2: I can't and it is fair, it is transparent, and
• 1:54:18
  Speaker 2: I'm fighting. But I can make a very good living
• 1:54:20
  Speaker 2: out of this and I could build like generational wealth
• 1:54:25
  Speaker 2: with it.
• 1:54:26
  Speaker 1: Well that's what's really good about like this MVP PFL
• 1:54:29
  Speaker 1: merger and having a bunch of hype on that, Like
• 1:54:33
  Speaker 1: the more competition the better, the more it's the more
• 1:54:36
  Speaker 1: eyes on the sport. The more people watch the sport,
• 1:54:38
  Speaker 1: the more money will be in the sport, and then
• 1:54:40
  Speaker 1: the more the fighters will have options for who to
• 1:54:43
  Speaker 1: fight for.
• 1:54:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, and I think that's the best thing, Like
• 1:54:45
  Speaker 2: you just said.
• 1:54:46
  Speaker 1: Like options, Yeah, no, it's phenomenal.
• 1:54:49
  Speaker 2: If you have options, that's the best thing ever. Right, Yeah,
• 1:54:52
  Speaker 2: it's like, hey, we got this, we got that. And
• 1:54:54
  Speaker 2: it's not that you got to like play them out
• 1:54:57
  Speaker 2: against each other. But still it's it is a good
• 1:55:00
  Speaker 2: thing because if you just have one option, it's like, hey,
• 1:55:02
  Speaker 2: take it or leave it, exactly, this is what it is.
• 1:55:05
  Speaker 2: And if you get like the other guy's saying this,
• 1:55:07
  Speaker 2: so let me go.
• 1:55:08
  Speaker 1: There, reality is we could use one more, you know,
• 1:55:10
  Speaker 1: not just MVP, but also another. I wish one was
• 1:55:14
  Speaker 1: doing better, you know, if one was doing better and
• 1:55:16
  Speaker 1: they were a viable option as well, because I know
• 1:55:18
  Speaker 1: some guys did go over there with great success, like
• 1:55:20
  Speaker 1: Mighty Mouse went over there with great success. We need more,
• 1:55:23
  Speaker 1: We need more options for fighters. And you know, it's
• 1:55:27
  Speaker 1: it's unusual in that in boxing, for instance, what's really
• 1:55:32
  Speaker 1: important is the name of the fighters. That's what's important.
• 1:55:35
  Speaker 1: You know, if Dmitri Bvall's fighting it's it's people are
• 1:55:38
  Speaker 1: going to say, they don't give a fuck who the
• 1:55:40
  Speaker 1: promoter is. They want to see bev All fight. You know,
• 1:55:42
  Speaker 1: if it's Archer better beev they want to see him fight.
• 1:55:44
  Speaker 1: That's all. That's all everybody gives a shit about in MMA,
• 1:55:47
  Speaker 1: it's UFC. And the only the exception to that was,
• 1:55:51
  Speaker 1: of course, this last MVP card where Ronda Rousey fought,
• 1:55:54
  Speaker 1: so everybody's like, oh my gosh, she's a legend, she's
• 1:55:56
  Speaker 1: fighting and that and Francis and Ghana was on the card,
• 1:55:59
  Speaker 1: so a lot of eyeballs got on that. So we
• 1:56:01
  Speaker 1: need more of that, and more of that is good for.
• 1:56:03
  Speaker 2: Everybody, like built like like we just talked about built
• 1:56:08
  Speaker 2: stories around those people. Yes, who are those people next
• 1:56:12
  Speaker 2: to being fighters? Okay, they're incredibly amazing in what they
• 1:56:17
  Speaker 2: do in the in the ring or in the octagon
• 1:56:19
  Speaker 2: or whatever. Okay, but who is the person behind Yeah? Okay,
• 1:56:23
  Speaker 2: Oh he's a father? Oh really he has two? I
• 1:56:25
  Speaker 2: never know? Yeah. Yeah, So that gives that gives them
• 1:56:31
  Speaker 2: so much more depth. And I also believe that that
• 1:56:35
  Speaker 2: makes them more human.
• 1:56:37
  Speaker 1: So seeing their families, seeing them interact, so.
• 1:56:40
  Speaker 2: Everybody gets like closer to Wow, this guy could be
• 1:56:45
  Speaker 2: my neighbor because he also has he brings his kids
• 1:56:49
  Speaker 2: to school and.
• 1:56:50
  Speaker 1: Whatever invested in him. Like you like him, you want
• 1:56:53
  Speaker 1: them to win. I mean that's a big part of it,
• 1:56:55
  Speaker 1: and that's something that they need to do and that
• 1:56:57
  Speaker 1: I think you're right about Glory. They really never did that.
• 1:57:00
  Speaker 1: That was not really a part of the Glory promotion.
• 1:57:03
  Speaker 2: They were just like the best listen for me work there.
• 1:57:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm a giant Glory fan man. Every time there's
• 1:57:11
  Speaker 1: a card, I can't wait. But like watching people like
• 1:57:14
  Speaker 1: what are you watching, I'm like Glory's on.
• 1:57:17
  Speaker 2: Like the Glory, Yeah I heard about that.
• 1:57:20
  Speaker 1: It's like even my friends in m m A don't
• 1:57:23
  Speaker 1: don't understand.
• 1:57:24
  Speaker 2: Wow, the real the people that the trade nurse and everybody.
• 1:57:27
  Speaker 2: They a lot of times they get like the Glory
• 1:57:30
  Speaker 2: fighters into to prepare their fighters to to get into UC.
• 1:57:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah for big fights.
• 1:57:36
  Speaker 2: Or whatever, because like, hey, they know they're they're stand
• 1:57:38
  Speaker 2: up I level.
• 1:57:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, elite. I mean, and like I said, one, f
• 1:57:42
  Speaker 1: C has a lot of elite fighters. They're they're there,
• 1:57:45
  Speaker 1: especially at the lighter weight classes. There's a lot of
• 1:57:48
  Speaker 1: really Jonathan Haggerty, he just beat Yuki Yoza, who's another guy.
• 1:57:52
  Speaker 1: This guy from Japan is a kyokichen guy, fucks up
• 1:57:55
  Speaker 1: people's legs and he's really good. And then there is
• 1:57:57
  Speaker 1: this guy from Dagistan who might be the best striker
• 1:58:00
  Speaker 1: alive as Adula Imazaliev. This dude, he's really tall and
• 1:58:05
  Speaker 1: he fights at one hundred and thirty five pounds and
• 1:58:07
  Speaker 1: he's fucking nasty.
• 1:58:09
  Speaker 2: Man.
• 1:58:09
  Speaker 1: He's so technical, undefeated, and he's from Dagistan. There's so
• 1:58:14
  Speaker 1: many savages that are coming out of Dagistan, just straight
• 1:58:17
  Speaker 1: up killers.
• 1:58:18
  Speaker 2: Man.
• 1:58:19
  Speaker 1: There's a dude who just won in the PFL, Maga
• 1:58:21
  Speaker 1: Manhov was just one of the PFL this past week,
• 1:58:23
  Speaker 1: or some other guy. He fights like im Ghzalliev. Real
• 1:58:26
  Speaker 1: similar both guys from Dagistan, similar styles.
• 1:58:29
  Speaker 2: Man, I love it.
• 1:58:30
  Speaker 1: This question mark kicks and the elade stabbing front kicks
• 1:58:34
  Speaker 1: and just real slick stand up. You know. But in
• 1:58:38
  Speaker 1: one FC they're having these guys fighting, and you know
• 1:58:41
  Speaker 1: there it's really big in Asia, but it just has
• 1:58:43
  Speaker 1: not caught on in America.
• 1:58:45
  Speaker 2: No, And I think that's also where the problem is.
• 1:58:49
  Speaker 2: I think with them, but also with with Glory, they're
• 1:58:53
  Speaker 2: just like pouring you money pouring you money in a
• 1:58:55
  Speaker 2: certain moment, He's like, I was understand, like the one
• 1:59:00
  Speaker 2: that's investigated, Like how much money am I gonna need
• 1:59:02
  Speaker 2: to pour in this before it's going to do something?
• 1:59:05
  Speaker 1: You know, they asked me to be They asked me
• 1:59:07
  Speaker 1: to be a part of that at one point in time.
• 1:59:09
  Speaker 1: They wanted me to be like the Dana White of glory.
• 1:59:11
  Speaker 1: I'm like, I don't have that kind of time. I
• 1:59:13
  Speaker 1: don't have that kind of time.
• 1:59:15
  Speaker 2: Exactly if you were going to say I don't have
• 1:59:17
  Speaker 2: that type of money, I'm not gonna look at you like.
• 1:59:19
  Speaker 1: Come on, it's the time.
• 1:59:21
  Speaker 2: It would be that you're so busy, you're so cool.
• 1:59:23
  Speaker 1: You would have I know how hard Dana works. Dana
• 1:59:26
  Speaker 1: works all day every day. That guy is always doing something.
• 1:59:30
  Speaker 1: He's always got deals going, He's always on the phone.
• 1:59:32
  Speaker 1: He's always meetings and the headaches and canceled fights and
• 1:59:35
  Speaker 1: this and that trying to make things happen and promotions
• 1:59:38
  Speaker 1: and press conferences.
• 1:59:39
  Speaker 2: And it's like they want to change.
• 1:59:41
  Speaker 1: I would never half ass something like that, and you
• 1:59:43
  Speaker 1: can't do that. To be a promoter is a.
• 1:59:45
  Speaker 2: Lot, is a full time it's a full time job.
• 1:59:49
  Speaker 1: And you know, Dana set the bar very very high,
• 1:59:52
  Speaker 1: and he's the best ever. I think he's the I
• 1:59:54
  Speaker 1: think he's the greatest promoter of all time. And to me,
• 1:59:56
  Speaker 1: for me to do that, like I couldn't, There's no way.
• 2:00:00
  Speaker 2: That's why it's so cool that he jumps into boxing now, Yeah,
• 2:00:03
  Speaker 2: and he's going to give.
• 2:00:04
  Speaker 1: That yeah very try and yeah, I mean these people are,
• 2:00:09
  Speaker 1: you know, always nervous when a new guy steps into sport.
• 2:00:12
  Speaker 1: But I think it's only better reputation. Yeah, it's only
• 2:00:16
  Speaker 1: yeah with money, with you know, like and the amount
• 2:00:19
  Speaker 1: of money they're throwing at the boxers. The MMA guys
• 2:00:21
  Speaker 1: are like, hey, what do you do the fuck? Like,
• 2:00:23
  Speaker 1: where's that money for us?
• 2:00:24
  Speaker 2: But they still need to build up.
• 2:00:27
  Speaker 1: It's all good for everybody. The more money there is
• 2:00:29
  Speaker 1: in the sport, the more attention, the more excitement. It's
• 2:00:32
  Speaker 1: better for everybody.
• 2:00:33
  Speaker 2: About how cool would that be if there would be
• 2:00:35
  Speaker 2: a world where MMA fighters UFC fighters would also be
• 2:00:41
  Speaker 2: able to get into ZUFA and like, hey, you're you're
• 2:00:45
  Speaker 2: a good box We see like maybe there's something this is.
• 2:00:48
  Speaker 1: Possible that they would do that, But right now they're
• 2:00:49
  Speaker 1: not concentrating on that.
• 2:00:50
  Speaker 2: They're just they first need to position themselves as but
• 2:00:55
  Speaker 2: like for the future.
• 2:00:56
  Speaker 1: It would be But then if you've got a big star,
• 2:00:58
  Speaker 1: like say, if you take a guy like Max or
• 2:01:00
  Speaker 1: something like that and he decides he wants a box
• 2:01:02
  Speaker 1: for a while, that means he's not going to be
• 2:01:03
  Speaker 1: able to fight in MMA fight. So that would like
• 2:01:05
  Speaker 1: cut off their own access to him as an MMA fighter.
• 2:01:09
  Speaker 1: And he's a huge star.
• 2:01:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but maybe then he attracts different different eyeballs him.
• 2:01:14
  Speaker 1: But to do it right, you got to do it
• 2:01:16
  Speaker 1: like kind of like when Connor did it with Floyd.
• 2:01:18
  Speaker 1: He took a whole year off and he was just boxing.
• 2:01:21
  Speaker 1: I mean, really really concentrated on that.
• 2:01:24
  Speaker 2: You can like go back into MMA again because.
• 2:01:27
  Speaker 1: They kind of messed him up. It kind of messed
• 2:01:29
  Speaker 1: him up going back in MMA again. He didn't have
• 2:01:31
  Speaker 1: the same momentum. It wasn't the same amount of training
• 2:01:34
  Speaker 1: training lost with grappling and especially with kickboxing. You know,
• 2:01:40
  Speaker 1: we're only doing boxing. That training lost, like you have
• 2:01:43
  Speaker 1: to recalibrate your whole break forever.
• 2:01:46
  Speaker 2: And I was just it was just excitement. Yeah, my
• 2:01:49
  Speaker 2: excitement put it out there.
• 2:01:50
  Speaker 1: But for some guys it might option, you know, and
• 2:01:53
  Speaker 1: for some guys, especially after knee injuries, you know, where
• 2:01:57
  Speaker 1: boxing is not as hard on the knees. You know,
• 2:01:59
  Speaker 1: you could say that, especially when it comes to grappling
• 2:02:01
  Speaker 1: and leg kicks, especially like those guys that throw those
• 2:02:05
  Speaker 1: sidekicks to the knee. Oh my god, there's calf kicks. Oh,
• 2:02:09
  Speaker 1: I know, crazy, Oh my god, crazy.
• 2:02:12
  Speaker 2: It's but after that, after they saw that within UFC
• 2:02:18
  Speaker 2: with an anime gigboxing, Nelse's touch I do that?
• 2:02:21
  Speaker 1: Isn't it nuts that it took forever for the calf
• 2:02:24
  Speaker 1: kick to be a potent weapon, Like.
• 2:02:25
  Speaker 2: But it's so dangerous. It's also dangerous because if you
• 2:02:29
  Speaker 2: if you hit the ship, it's like, oh, it's the
• 2:02:31
  Speaker 2: last kick you throw.
• 2:02:33
  Speaker 1: But if you do it right, yeah, if you do
• 2:02:35
  Speaker 1: it right, like Alex Pereira destroys people's legs, destroys them.
• 2:02:39
  Speaker 2: I don't even know how how it looks like heck
• 2:02:43
  Speaker 2: with the side of the it's not even really like
• 2:02:46
  Speaker 2: a low kick.
• 2:02:47
  Speaker 1: Or it's weird. It does it weird? And he does
• 2:02:49
  Speaker 1: it with no tell, no tell, no switching to the
• 2:02:52
  Speaker 1: hips at all, just throws the leg out there and
• 2:02:54
  Speaker 1: it only takes a couple Yeah, there's a couple and
• 2:02:56
  Speaker 1: then your legs fucked, and then you see guys switches dances.
• 2:02:59
  Speaker 1: Then it's even funny. That kid that I was talking
• 2:03:02
  Speaker 1: about in Japan, Yukiosa, he's phenomenal at that man. His
• 2:03:06
  Speaker 1: calf kicks are insane. He's just in every exchange, every exchange,
• 2:03:10
  Speaker 1: he's kicking the calves inside and outside the kilkishing guy.
• 2:03:14
  Speaker 1: So it's it's just all just hard style inside outside outside.
• 2:03:18
  Speaker 2: What do you what is your opinion on that, because
• 2:03:20
  Speaker 2: me and my trainer we were debating the calf kick
• 2:03:25
  Speaker 2: because next to being super effective, it's also a long,
• 2:03:31
  Speaker 2: long term injury when you get put out by calf kicks,
• 2:03:35
  Speaker 2: because that injury stays there for quite a while.
• 2:03:38
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, it's brutal. It's brutal.
• 2:03:40
  Speaker 2: So do you think like it's a thing that should.
• 2:03:43
  Speaker 1: Stare it's effective?
• 2:03:45
  Speaker 2: I mean it's really.
• 2:03:48
  Speaker 1: If you can knee bar a guy, you can heal
• 2:03:51
  Speaker 1: hook a guy, you can rip his knee apart, you've
• 2:03:53
  Speaker 1: got to be able to calf kick. You know, this
• 2:03:55
  Speaker 1: is a it's a weapon. To take away that weapon
• 2:03:58
  Speaker 1: when we know how effective it is. You got guys
• 2:04:00
  Speaker 1: who are always used to standing heavy on that front leg.
• 2:04:05
  Speaker 1: Now all of a sudden, they can't do that anymore,
• 2:04:07
  Speaker 1: like Connor. Perfect example, in the window between Connor taking
• 2:04:12
  Speaker 1: time off fighting Floyd Mayweather, getting fighting Kobeb and then
• 2:04:16
  Speaker 1: getting back in MMA, then the calfkip came along. He
• 2:04:19
  Speaker 1: never fought with. There was no calf kicks before Dustin
• 2:04:22
  Speaker 1: Poier destroyed his leg in that first round. By the
• 2:04:25
  Speaker 1: time the second round was rolling around in their second fight,
• 2:04:28
  Speaker 1: he was already wobbling on that front leg.
• 2:04:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:04:30
  Speaker 1: Crazy, crazy that it took so long for that one technique.
• 2:04:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just the thing you see, and hey, that's
• 2:04:38
  Speaker 2: effective that everybody started doing it.
• 2:04:40
  Speaker 1: But again, dangerous, like you said, you go, I mean
• 2:04:42
  Speaker 1: this how Chris Widman broke his leg. You know, he
• 2:04:45
  Speaker 1: threw a really hard low kick and he caught the knee,
• 2:04:48
  Speaker 1: caught the shin right below the knee, and snapped his
• 2:04:51
  Speaker 1: leg in half. If it gets checked and you've you've
• 2:04:54
  Speaker 1: hit it the wrong way, especially the low part of
• 2:04:57
  Speaker 1: yours and the high part of his, where it's it's sense.
• 2:05:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the hardest part.
• 2:05:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's so effective. It has to stay. The
• 2:05:06
  Speaker 1: thing that bothers me more.
• 2:05:08
  Speaker 2: Okay, I'm happy, I'm happy.
• 2:05:09
  Speaker 1: Like the sidekicks to the knee bothered me more.
• 2:05:13
  Speaker 2: Oh, it's yeah.
• 2:05:14
  Speaker 1: Did you ever see Khalil Rowntree and modestas Pokoskos You
• 2:05:17
  Speaker 1: ever see that? Oh, it's the worst one of all time.
• 2:05:20
  Speaker 1: You see the leg legs, it turned sideways. He threw
• 2:05:23
  Speaker 1: a sidekick, caught him on the front leg and just
• 2:05:25
  Speaker 1: turned his whole leg sideways, and he.
• 2:05:27
  Speaker 2: Screamed and the fight was rip everything apart.
• 2:05:29
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, he had a surgery, had have surgery after
• 2:05:32
  Speaker 1: the fight. His leg was destroyed. When John Jones fought
• 2:05:35
  Speaker 1: Thiago Santos, I think it was, yeah, Thiago Santos, he
• 2:05:42
  Speaker 1: blew out both his legs. He'd have knee surgery on
• 2:05:45
  Speaker 1: both legs after the fight, both legs. That's crazy, crazy
• 2:05:48
  Speaker 1: because just throwing those oblique kicks and the sidekick to
• 2:05:51
  Speaker 1: the knee, Yeah, blew out both his knees.
• 2:05:54
  Speaker 2: That's that's the kick I don't like.
• 2:05:55
  Speaker 1: When Ian Gary fought Shop caught shot Cut rockman Off,
• 2:05:59
  Speaker 1: who's a top welter wake gar, one of the top contenders.
• 2:06:02
  Speaker 1: He hit him with an od bleak kick in his
• 2:06:03
  Speaker 1: left knee, and his knees been fucked ever since, and
• 2:06:06
  Speaker 1: he had to have surgery, had a second surgery, and
• 2:06:08
  Speaker 1: he's still out.
• 2:06:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:06:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what bothers me about that is that you
• 2:06:14
  Speaker 1: might not ever recover if your knee gets stripped to shreds,
• 2:06:18
  Speaker 1: your moniscus gets torn apart, your A C L MCL
• 2:06:20
  Speaker 1: gets blown out. So this is the this is Khalil
• 2:06:23
  Speaker 1: Rowntree watched this. Oh oh yeah, watch it from this angle.
• 2:06:30
  Speaker 1: Look at how man, this screams horrible, horrible. I wonder
• 2:06:37
  Speaker 1: about that one. Look at that because I feel like
• 2:06:39
  Speaker 1: that one maybe is too much, because it's just like
• 2:06:43
  Speaker 1: it's just a career, a career, a career ender. Yeah,
• 2:06:46
  Speaker 1: I mean if we're I don't know, I'm torn because
• 2:06:49
  Speaker 1: on one sid one hand, it's like it doesn't happen
• 2:06:51
  Speaker 1: that often and you should be able to defend against it,
• 2:06:54
  Speaker 1: and knowing it exists, you have to be able to
• 2:06:57
  Speaker 1: defend against it. But the thing is one could change
• 2:07:01
  Speaker 1: and you're out for a year. Like like we said,
• 2:07:03
  Speaker 1: a fighter really only has X amount of years to compete,
• 2:07:06
  Speaker 1: So one whole year gone from one kick is kind
• 2:07:09
  Speaker 1: of crazy.
• 2:07:11
  Speaker 2: By the way, it's pretty extraordinary how you do that
• 2:07:13
  Speaker 2: and how you know all those names and fights from
• 2:07:16
  Speaker 2: I don't know how long ago, and you're just.
• 2:07:18
  Speaker 1: Like, but I don't remember a lot of other things
• 2:07:23
  Speaker 1: remember really good, but also kind of unreliable with some things.
• 2:07:27
  Speaker 2: It's just focused on the things I.
• 2:07:30
  Speaker 1: Care about, which is a lot of it as combat sports.
• 2:07:32
  Speaker 1: But the knee one, that's the only one that really
• 2:07:35
  Speaker 1: bothers me. That in I think knees to the head
• 2:07:38
  Speaker 1: to a grounded opponent, I don't know.
• 2:07:40
  Speaker 2: That's no.
• 2:07:42
  Speaker 1: You don't think they should be able to do that.
• 2:07:44
  Speaker 1: I don't think you should be able to turn.
• 2:07:45
  Speaker 2: Even stomp on somebody's head. But they're not allowed to
• 2:07:48
  Speaker 2: do that anymore.
• 2:07:49
  Speaker 1: You can't stomp, but you can and.
• 2:07:52
  Speaker 2: Like back in the day they did, they did that.
• 2:07:54
  Speaker 1: You used to be able to stomp and soccer kick.
• 2:07:57
  Speaker 1: But I think when a guy shoots on your leg
• 2:08:00
  Speaker 1: and just curls up in a fetal position, it just
• 2:08:02
  Speaker 1: holds on. You shouldn't be able to do that. You
• 2:08:04
  Speaker 1: should be able to knee that guy in the head
• 2:08:05
  Speaker 1: because he doesn't have to hold on to that. If
• 2:08:07
  Speaker 1: your knee is free and he can knee you in
• 2:08:09
  Speaker 1: the you should have to adjust that should that's a
• 2:08:13
  Speaker 1: it's too legitimate of a technique. You know it's it's
• 2:08:17
  Speaker 1: hard if somebody's on the ground, like there's the problem
• 2:08:20
  Speaker 1: also is the cage versus the ring, because in a
• 2:08:23
  Speaker 1: ring soccer kicks make more sense and knees to the
• 2:08:27
  Speaker 1: head make more sense because you can move around and
• 2:08:30
  Speaker 1: you can get away from it because you could go
• 2:08:32
  Speaker 1: under the rope, like if it knees coming to your head,
• 2:08:34
  Speaker 1: there's movement, whereas the cage right there. And I think
• 2:08:38
  Speaker 1: that that's an another element of the fight that's an
• 2:08:43
  Speaker 1: unnecessary element. I think maybe even what karate combat's doing,
• 2:08:48
  Speaker 1: it might.
• 2:08:48
  Speaker 2: Be the best way to do it.
• 2:08:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it looks nice. I think that might be the
• 2:08:55
  Speaker 1: best way to do it. The only problem with that
• 2:08:57
  Speaker 1: is when you get to the edge, you're stumbling.
• 2:09:00
  Speaker 2: Because you're you're it's like half.
• 2:09:03
  Speaker 1: But learn how to adjust to that. And that's better
• 2:09:07
  Speaker 1: than a cage because the cage is just a fucking
• 2:09:10
  Speaker 1: physical wall. So the thing about the ramp, the bowl,
• 2:09:14
  Speaker 1: that ship doesn't help you get up at all, Like
• 2:09:16
  Speaker 1: if somebody takes you down against that, that's you're not
• 2:09:19
  Speaker 1: That doesn't help you. Where a wall fucking helps you.
• 2:09:22
  Speaker 1: And there's guys that are doing workouts now where they
• 2:09:25
  Speaker 1: put their back up against a wall and they're doing
• 2:09:28
  Speaker 1: kettlebell get ups.
• 2:09:29
  Speaker 2: Where they're there just to feel like, Yes.
• 2:09:31
  Speaker 1: They're lifting up heavy kettlebells and they're doing it in
• 2:09:34
  Speaker 1: stages getting up from the ground, just to emulate that position.
• 2:09:39
  Speaker 1: But it's a it's an yeah.
• 2:09:41
  Speaker 2: But that's why I feel like everything has The ring
• 2:09:45
  Speaker 2: has certain things because I feel like if you do
• 2:09:47
  Speaker 2: m A in a ring and somebody shoots or whatever,
• 2:09:49
  Speaker 2: then maybe they go through the ropes they shoot, that's dangerous.
• 2:09:54
  Speaker 1: But then like when Bernard Hopkins fought Joe Smith Junior
• 2:09:58
  Speaker 1: and he went through the ropes and fell, landing on
• 2:10:00
  Speaker 1: his head. Yeah, it's crazy. Yeah, so that's how the
• 2:10:02
  Speaker 1: fight ended. Like there's there's but I think that was
• 2:10:06
  Speaker 1: just shitty planning. I think they should have pads around
• 2:10:08
  Speaker 1: the ring, and they should you know, in case someone falls,
• 2:10:10
  Speaker 1: you shouldn't just hope they don't fall. Have something or
• 2:10:13
  Speaker 1: have a larger apron too. Yeah, that's you could. You
• 2:10:15
  Speaker 1: could fix a lot with a much larger apron where
• 2:10:17
  Speaker 1: a guy falls out there's something around the edge of
• 2:10:19
  Speaker 1: the ring. But I think a cage. The problem is
• 2:10:23
  Speaker 1: in most people's eyes, UFC equals cage, like you fight
• 2:10:27
  Speaker 1: in a cage.
• 2:10:28
  Speaker 2: And the mindset of it is pretty cool.
• 2:10:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because you get.
• 2:10:32
  Speaker 2: Locked up exactly exactly nowhere.
• 2:10:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there's something to be said for that.
• 2:10:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so it has something. But yeah, I hear what
• 2:10:43
  Speaker 2: you're saying. But that's like we just talked about, everything
• 2:10:46
  Speaker 2: has Yeah, he's pros and it's cons.
• 2:10:49
  Speaker 1: Everything has its pros and it's cons and everything is
• 2:10:51
  Speaker 1: exciting in its own way, like boxing on its own.
• 2:10:54
  Speaker 1: Like there's elements of boxing that you would not see
• 2:10:58
  Speaker 1: if they were allowed to do leg cakes and elbows
• 2:11:01
  Speaker 1: and all that. So there's something beautiful about just pure
• 2:11:04
  Speaker 1: elite boxing, and there's something pure about elite kickboxing, and
• 2:11:08
  Speaker 1: then there's something pure about elite moy Thai, and then
• 2:11:11
  Speaker 1: there's something pure about m m A about watching it
• 2:11:14
  Speaker 1: all together. And jiu jitsu as well. See that's the
• 2:11:17
  Speaker 1: other thing. The UFC is doing UFC Brazilian jiu jitsu,
• 2:11:20
  Speaker 1: so they have these big UFC jiu jitsu matches. Really yeah,
• 2:11:23
  Speaker 1: so like kickboxing, and it's right there, it's right there. Guys.
• 2:11:29
  Speaker 1: I keep sending Dana White fights. I send him because
• 2:11:32
  Speaker 1: I'm trying to get him to do this. I'm like,
• 2:11:34
  Speaker 1: you should get involved in them. I think he's too busy.
• 2:11:37
  Speaker 1: He's too busy. It's also got that slap fight ship,
• 2:11:39
  Speaker 1: so he's doing that crazy.
• 2:11:44
  Speaker 2: It's fun to watch. But it's like, oh, it's fun.
• 2:11:47
  Speaker 2: Like I just stand there, just take a punch. I
• 2:11:50
  Speaker 2: just like try to move around and just slide, you know,
• 2:11:53
  Speaker 2: you just stand there.
• 2:11:55
  Speaker 1: With your hands behind your back holding onto a thing.
• 2:11:57
  Speaker 1: Just take it on the face.
• 2:11:58
  Speaker 2: Like yeah, yeah, are pretty, you're pretty big, Adam. If
• 2:12:02
  Speaker 2: you do that, you're Yeah. That's why for me that
• 2:12:06
  Speaker 2: like now experiencing boxing, I really I can really genuinely
• 2:12:12
  Speaker 2: say that I see boxing.
• 2:12:14
  Speaker 1: As an art, oh for sure.
• 2:12:16
  Speaker 2: And k boxing is it's been my life. It's brought
• 2:12:20
  Speaker 2: me everything. So it's it's so much fun, but it's
• 2:12:23
  Speaker 2: it's more intense, it's more brutal, and it's quick. It's
• 2:12:28
  Speaker 2: like the pace is so fast. And in the championship
• 2:12:33
  Speaker 2: fights with just five rounds, so if you lose one round,
• 2:12:35
  Speaker 2: you're like, oh, and now it's like, like I said,
• 2:12:38
  Speaker 2: it's an art. You have twelve rounds. And I saw
• 2:12:43
  Speaker 2: the bevo better be a fight, and then for the
• 2:12:46
  Speaker 2: first so many rounds, better be for so much better,
• 2:12:49
  Speaker 2: and then later in the rounds and then Bevo still
• 2:12:52
  Speaker 2: got the got to win, Like wow, how cool is that? Well,
• 2:12:56
  Speaker 2: if you look at the fight, you think, oh, this
• 2:12:59
  Speaker 2: is not gonna go well, and then he's so just
• 2:13:02
  Speaker 2: and it changes. So it's like I said, I really
• 2:13:05
  Speaker 2: feel like boxing is so much of an art and
• 2:13:07
  Speaker 2: you have twelve rounds to paint your masterpiece.
• 2:13:10
  Speaker 1: Yes, I know, and if you appreciate that art form,
• 2:13:13
  Speaker 1: you really understand and appreciate it. It's beautiful to watch,
• 2:13:16
  Speaker 1: Like it's beautiful to watch, like Floyd when he was
• 2:13:18
  Speaker 1: in his prime, we barely would get hit stand and Floyd,
• 2:13:22
  Speaker 1: unlike anybody else, was standing right in front of everybody.
• 2:13:25
  Speaker 1: He was barely getting hit. He was standing right there. Yeah,
• 2:13:28
  Speaker 1: he wasn't running away and moving around. He was right
• 2:13:30
  Speaker 1: in front of us, and they couldn't hit him shortener.
• 2:13:33
  Speaker 2: And that's what I also liked or still like about
• 2:13:37
  Speaker 2: Canelo because after that fight, you saw the whole transition
• 2:13:41
  Speaker 2: Canelo mate and he took So I think I truly
• 2:13:45
  Speaker 2: believed that he took so much from that fight with
• 2:13:48
  Speaker 2: Mayweather because then he started applying it himself.
• 2:13:51
  Speaker 1: Unquestionable, But oh I love that, yes, unquestionably. Yeah, his
• 2:13:56
  Speaker 1: head movement got much better after that fight. I mean,
• 2:13:59
  Speaker 1: that's the think that happens. When you fight the elite,
• 2:14:01
  Speaker 1: you get Daniel Cormier always says, you get the rub.
• 2:14:05
  Speaker 1: Like you fight an elite guy, win, loser, draw, you
• 2:14:07
  Speaker 1: get the rub. Some of it rubs off, aren't you exactly?
• 2:14:11
  Speaker 1: So that's why I'm excited to see you fight again too.
• 2:14:14
  Speaker 2: I'm so excited to compete again. But let's let's see
• 2:14:18
  Speaker 2: who's gonna be.
• 2:14:19
  Speaker 1: Well, let's hope this podcast gets the wheels turning.
• 2:14:22
  Speaker 2: We we've blended some seats.
• 2:14:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe his accedency. We'll we'll hear this and he'll
• 2:14:27
  Speaker 1: decide that it's time to go, and I'll.
• 2:14:31
  Speaker 2: Call you right after your Joe, Thanks, we did it.
• 2:14:35
  Speaker 1: That would be make me very happy if we somehow
• 2:14:38
  Speaker 1: or another motivated them to get back to the negotiation table,
• 2:14:41
  Speaker 1: because I.
• 2:14:42
  Speaker 2: Just but just let's let's make an agreement. Now, let's
• 2:14:44
  Speaker 2: just make sure you're going to be there. Then.
• 2:14:46
  Speaker 1: What was the last conversation you guys had about it?
• 2:14:50
  Speaker 2: I think a week a week and a half ago.
• 2:14:54
  Speaker 2: It was more more of a general conversation, Hey, we're
• 2:14:58
  Speaker 2: looking at yeah, what's next?
• 2:15:01
  Speaker 1: So what did you say to them, did you say
• 2:15:03
  Speaker 1: remas of course? And what did they say?
• 2:15:07
  Speaker 2: Like? God, yeah, but yeah you need to you need
• 2:15:10
  Speaker 2: two parties for that, I said, I know, make it happen.
• 2:15:15
  Speaker 1: So you got to roll up to Usik's house with
• 2:15:17
  Speaker 1: the Brinx truck. Just back that thing up exactly, get
• 2:15:23
  Speaker 1: the arm guards at the door, show them all the gold.
• 2:15:28
  Speaker 2: That's maybe my name and my face on it. Okay,
• 2:15:34
  Speaker 2: put it in first.
• 2:15:36
  Speaker 1: I think that's the fight, and I hope you get it.
• 2:15:38
  Speaker 1: I really do. But either way, your performance was extraordinary
• 2:15:42
  Speaker 1: and you've had a fucking incredible career. Man, you should
• 2:15:46
  Speaker 1: be proud, really incredible career in kickboxing. Greatest heavyweight kickboxer
• 2:15:51
  Speaker 1: of all time.
• 2:15:51
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much. I really appreciate that. And it's
• 2:15:54
  Speaker 2: not just for me being here and sitting here now,
• 2:15:57
  Speaker 2: because I've been seeing you and hearing you talk about
• 2:16:00
  Speaker 2: it for yeah, for years already. So like I said,
• 2:16:04
  Speaker 2: it is that it really, really really means the world
• 2:16:06
  Speaker 2: coming from you, because you're an expert. You're you look everything,
• 2:16:09
  Speaker 2: you look at everything, you see everything. The different organizations
• 2:16:12
  Speaker 2: show you know where to place certain guys and from
• 2:16:16
  Speaker 2: history and from now, so it means the world thank
• 2:16:19
  Speaker 2: you so much.
• 2:16:20
  Speaker 1: My pleasure, brother, and honor to have you.
• 2:16:22
  Speaker 2: And again, thank you so much again for being here.
• 2:16:25
  Speaker 2: So it's uh, it's been a while, but we're back.
• 2:16:27
  Speaker 1: Well. I had to reach out after the fight. I
• 2:16:29
  Speaker 1: was like, oh my god, we got to do this,
• 2:16:31
  Speaker 1: we got to talk. I was like, holy shit, man,
• 2:16:34
  Speaker 1: I reached out immediately. It was like, the fuck you
• 2:16:36
  Speaker 1: had it?
• 2:16:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I saw the the episode you guys did
• 2:16:43
  Speaker 2: about it, you were talking about it.
• 2:16:44
  Speaker 1: I was like, oh my god, I know it was incredible.
• 2:16:48
  Speaker 1: But listen, brother, congratulations on everything. And I really really
• 2:16:51
  Speaker 1: really hope you get that rematch. Good scene, really good scene, sir.
• 2:16:55
  Speaker 1: Thank you very much, Thanks, thank you everybody.