Latest / Profitable Christian Business / The $5 Trillion Market You're Overlooking: Conviction-Driven Marketing with Kurt & Kristen Luidhardt
Transcript
- 0:00Hello and welcome to another edition of the Profit of Christian Business.
- 0:04I am really stoked today because uh I have Kurt and Kristen Luthart with me today of Liberty Spenders.
- 0:12They do something that I was very, very interested in.
- 0:15We're gonna talk about their faith a little bit.
- 0:17We're gonna talk about how to leverage conservative Christian audiences that they can show you exactly how to tap into those audiences.
- 0:24I'm really excited to delve into that because of course, uh most of the people watching this are
- 0:29are Christian business owners, right?
- 0:30So they would love to know how to tap further into the Christian, conservative Christian market.
- 0:35So without further ado, ah would you mind giving a brief introduction?
- 0:42Don't mind at all.
- 0:43Go ahead.
- 0:44I'm in charge of introductions over here.
- 0:46We are Kurt and Kristen Luthart.
- 0:49And for 20 years, we've owned the Prosper Group, which is our marketing agency.
- 0:54for 19, well, 18 of those years, we just worked with political candidates for a living all over the country of all sizes, Republicans.
- 1:06And we'll get into that, I'm sure.
- 1:07But now we help.
- 1:09conservative and Christian businesses who are looking to add more leads by talking to a market segment we like to call Liberty Spenders.
- 1:19Nice, nice.
- 1:20And I see you have that book.
- 1:22I was waiting.
- 1:23I have that book in my cart on Amazon.
- 1:26I was waiting to talk to you first before I ordered it.
- 1:30But as soon as this is over, I'm going to go push send.
- 1:37All right, all right.
- 1:38So I like to start every interview just kind of casually, kind of get to know you a little bit better.
- 1:42Let the audience get to know you a little bit better.
- 1:45So one of the questions I have for you around that.
- 1:48is relative, but still kind of fun.
- 1:50If you could create a new national holiday to highlight value-based businesses, what would you call it?
- 1:58You know, the first word that comes to my head is abundance, although abundance day doesn't sound cool, as cool as say Independence Day or I know, yeah.
- 2:09I was thinking about freedom, but see, that's already kind of into, that's already in the ether, that's part of what we celebrate on July 4th.
- 2:16So, know, so abundance is the word, I think.
- 2:19It's a good one.
- 2:20Abundance day.
- 2:21Imagine, hey, how are you celebrating Abundance Day?
- 2:26That would be such a great thing to say.
- 2:28Yeah.
- 2:30Yes.
- 2:30Well, we all need to have that more in our mindset, right?
- 2:34That's so true.
- 2:36uh Side note, um how long have you two been married?
- 2:41Okay, we got married in 2004.
- 2:44Why do you said that?
- 2:45Because I can't do because I'm always afraid to say the wrong number, right?
- 2:49It's not every married couples like, you know, you know, I were every at 21.
- 2:54We will be 21 this.
- 2:56Okay, this August, it'll be 21.
- 2:58Okay.
- 2:59early congratulations on your anniversary.
- 3:02No issues here.
- 3:03I am the same way.
- 3:04I'll look over at my wife and I was like, I hope I get this right.
- 3:10It's no problem when it's been just a couple of years, right?
- 3:12But once you get into the 15 to 20 years, you start to...
- 3:17year now?
- 3:17The running joke that we have is that Kurt likes to round up with just about everything.
- 3:22So our kids ages, he rounds up how long we've been in business, he rounds up.
- 3:28And so I'm just always like, okay, when it comes to how long you've been married, let's get that right.
- 3:34I don't want to age myself any more than I need to.
- 3:38She's being my fact checker because...
- 3:40You know, I, you know, I round up to 20 years in business.
- 3:43It's really like 19 and some odd change, you know.
- 3:47Well, I will tell you, I don't know how relevant this is.
- 3:49It's not really relevant, but I want to share it anyway.
- 3:51My wife has two birthdays.
- 3:54And the one being is very memorable because it's January 1st and she hated having her birthday on New Year's Day.
- 4:02So we decided she was going to move her birthday to June 21st, the first day of summer, because she loves summer.
- 4:09Right.
- 4:10So now I have to remember two birthdays.
- 4:12One's really easy to remember.
- 4:13man, I get that, because my birthday is July 6th, so it's right around, right the 4th.
- 4:19But um it's worked out because things are decorated, there's fireworks going off, you know?
- 4:27But I can absolutely empathize with your wife.
- 4:30Nice, nice.
- 4:32So, what's the most on-brand Liberty Spender purchase you've made recently that might surprise us?
- 4:41That's a great question and we have a really good answer for you because we just finished the Indianapolis 500 um Indy car race.
- 4:51It is the biggest uh race or biggest sporting event in all of the world is held in Indianapolis of Indianapolis Motor Speedway and we are now completely hooked and we bought
- 5:03we bought Some excellent merch.
- 5:06We are supporting a driver stingray Rob.
- 5:08He was car number 77
- 5:10And uh all because we got introduced to him and his faith and how he's using his platform and IndyCar and as a driver, you know, as a mission field.
- 5:21And so it is completely a Liberty Spender, completely on brand.
- 5:26And in fact, we learned that charity he supports and bought a couple of their hats, which is Freedom Service Dogs of America.
- 5:33And again, not knowing uh when this goes or maybe this is live, but.
- 5:38you know, Memorial Day weekend, obviously we just celebrated that.
- 5:41so they, um, they train service dogs for veterans and give them free of charge.
- 5:47And, um, it's just, it's a beautiful thing.
- 5:49so, uh, that inspired us.
- 5:52And it's a Liberty Spender purchase is we were Andy 500 fans.
- 5:55You know, you can't live in Indianapolis and not be an Indy 500 fan as Kristen referenced.
- 6:00mean, there was old, there was somewhere between 350 and 400,000 people there on Sunday.
- 6:07And, uh,
- 6:08But we've never really followed IndyCar.
- 6:10There's 17 races.
- 6:12So we always follow the Indy 500, which is sort of their Super Bowl, right?
- 6:16That's the biggest, most, that's the biggest, most high profile car race in the world.
- 6:21But the, we've never really followed it, but now we are, because we've connected with Stingray on convictions and where he stands on faith.
- 6:29And we've now heard him share his testimony two or three times.
- 6:32And every time I'm impacted by it.
- 6:34And he sees that as a big part of why he races and he puts scripture on his car.
- 6:40He's got that in common a little bit with Tim Tebow.
- 6:43And so that's our kind of on-brand Liberty Spender purchase, but a little off the, you know, it's not coffee.
- 6:49It's a Indy car.
- 6:51Yeah, that's super cool.
- 6:54It's interesting.
- 6:55I've always been this way.
- 6:56I've never really followed a sports team.
- 6:59I follow people, right?
- 7:02Michael Jordan.
- 7:04know, I was a Michael Jordan fan.
- 7:06If he had left the Bulls, I would have followed him.
- 7:09Hometown hero for you, probably Peyton Manning, right?
- 7:12For the longest time was there.
- 7:14I followed Peyton when he left Indy.
- 7:16I followed him to Denver.
- 7:17I became a Denver fan because he was in Denver.
- 7:19I didn't really
- 7:20route for the team.
- 7:22I really feel like it's about the bond that you get with the players, not so much with the team.
- 7:28Yeah, well, there's some truth to that.
- 7:30Yeah, there's some truth.
- 7:31I'm a little more I mean, when Manning left and Luck came in here in Indianapolis, best game ever was when he came back the following year.
- 7:40was Luck's rookie year, I think, and played us here in Indianapolis and we won.
- 7:46It felt great.
- 7:48Yeah.
- 7:49Well, just well, I mean, we still love him.
- 7:51No, it's not like that.
- 7:52We let him go.
- 7:53Yeah.
- 7:53So wasn't like he left on purpose and
- 7:57You know, he wanted to stay.
- 7:59But I, you know, I was, I'm here to support the team.
- 8:02And so, in fact, the most interesting piece of that was there was uh a key moment in the game when Robert Mathis, our defensive end, sacked Peyton Manning in the end zone for
- 8:12safety.
- 8:14Might have been a touchdown.
- 8:15I can't remember.
- 8:15Either way, I saw Robert Mathis a couple of years later and I told him that was one of my favorite moments of his when he sacked Manning.
- 8:22That was, you know, it was a crazy game.
- 8:25We stood up the entire time.
- 8:27And he said that was also his favorite because for his entire NFL career, Manning has always worn red jerseys, so he was never allowed to hit him.
- 8:36And it wasn't until then he was allowed to hit him.
- 8:39And so it was immensely satisfying.
- 8:42Nice.
- 8:43Not to turn this into sports podcast.
- 8:45This is the last thing I'm going to talk about as far as sports.
- 8:48I love sports.
- 8:50I'm more of a college football fan myself.
- 8:52Just to reference, there is one team that I follow no matter who's there.
- 8:56And that's the Clemson Tigers because I live here in the upstate South Carolina.
- 9:00Dabo, I'm a big Dabo Sweeney fan.
- 9:01He raises them up right.
- 9:04So yeah.
- 9:06And he's, and he's a man of God too.
- 9:08Dabo, if you ever hear him speak, he,
- 9:11You know, at the end of games, he's always given the credit where credit is due.
- 9:13So it's really, really good.
- 9:17So I think this is a really fun question.
- 9:19If you're stranded on a desert island, but can only bring one marketing book and one item from your home, what are you choosing?
- 9:26And you each get one.
- 9:29Well, I'm thinking about this and it's like, okay, well should I think survival?
- 9:34Like, okay, if I'm on a desert island and there's salt water, I should probably bring a filter, you know?
- 9:39uh But also, gosh, do I wanna go how long being stranded without the word of God?
- 9:46don't, I probably, you know, that would probably help sustain me.
- 9:51So that's, I'll pick the item from home.
- 9:54You wanna, you can do the marketing book.
- 9:56Well, the marketing book, that's my favorite.
- 9:58than my own, maybe, I don't know.
- 10:01Is Influence by Robert Cialdini.
- 10:04Must read for anyone in marketing or sales.
- 10:07um Absolutely brilliant.
- 10:12And uh one of those few books that you just can't skim quickly because there's a gem in every page.
- 10:19So that's my endorsement for Robert Cialdini's Influence.
- 10:24Yeah, he's genius.
- 10:25With every, like if I was to scan this room and I showed you all the marketing books that we have, I can't believe that is not on my shelf.
- 10:35I have so many marketing books.
- 10:37I'm gonna get your book and that book at the cart.
- 10:41cart.
- 10:44I give it a resounding endorsement.
- 10:46I'll tell you, um much of what we see in other marketing and sales books today originated with some of his thoughts about how we influence people.
- 10:58Some of the basic seven levers of influence, the idea of reciprocity and authority and urgency.
- 11:05These are all principles I've used in marketing.
- 11:09probably read them somewhere else, but they were originated in his book and so well worth the read.
- 11:15Nice, nice.
- 11:16And Kristen, I have to applaud you on your picking of the Bible because I feel like if you have God, you need nothing else, right?
- 11:24So.
- 11:25Yes.
- 11:26Yeah, I mean, it's the right answer, you know.
- 11:32That's the best answer possible.
- 11:34So one of the things that we do every time on the Proper Christian Business is a fill in the blank question.
- 11:41And either one of you can answer this.
- 11:42Again, this is first time I've had a couple on the podcast.
- 11:46either one of you that wants to answer it can answer it.
- 11:49The fill in the blank is, conviction-driven marketing begins with blank.
- 11:55Authenticity.
- 11:56uh
- 11:57yes, yes.
- 12:00Do you wanna dive into that at all?
- 12:02Yeah, I mean, it is a big part of what we talk about, which I realized we referenced Liberty Spenders without explaining what that means or who they are.
- 12:12But our concept of what we're teaching our clients is that conviction-driven marketing, which is a new form of strategic marketing, you're really aligning based on values.
- 12:26And so you're leading in with that.
- 12:28And we argue you should do that with
- 12:29faith and political beliefs.
- 12:31There's a million ways to do that in a way that again feels authentic.
- 12:36people just trust is the new currency.
- 12:39um And people's attentions are short.
- 12:42We have a very high BS meter.
- 12:44We don't believe things.
- 12:46Our trust in institutions is broken and the news is broken and big organizations is broken.
- 12:52And so the way of now of marketing is to build authentic trust.
- 12:57That's the only way you can have it is with authenticity and building out your brand in a way that is consistent um so that your clients and consumers really feel connected to you
- 13:09and that they can do business with you.
- 13:11Yeah.
- 13:11I think it's the building wave.
- 13:13think still most marketers are thinking, let's just grab attention, right?
- 13:18Let's do, let's have a funny ad and people are blowing through paper.
- 13:22We're like Dollar Shave Club, right?
- 13:24Everybody talks about that as marketing brilliance and to some extent, it was wildly successful.
- 13:30But on the other hand, I don't think that's an approach that's gonna work in today's environment where people don't believe anything they see.
- 13:39They don't believe the news.
- 13:41They don't believe marketing communications.
- 13:43They don't trust anything.
- 13:45We live in a society where we are flooded with information and starving for truth, right?
- 13:51And that's a...
- 13:52marketing statements, also a spiritual statement, right?
- 13:54But the, we're starving for it.
- 13:57And so uh brands need to think about how am I, not just how am I getting eyeballs on my stuff.
- 14:04That's easy, right?
- 14:06You can, you can put something on TikTok, TikTok and have 2 million views later.
- 14:10You know, when we, I was just thinking about this a couple years ago, uh one of our caregivers posted a video of our daughter laughing on TikTok and she was just cute laugh.
- 14:21And a week later, there's 1.2 million views on that video, right?
- 14:26So it's easy, right?
- 14:27You don't have to do anything particularly creative.
- 14:29She's just laughing and just a cute laugh.
- 14:32But it's hard to build trust.
- 14:35That's the commodity you've got to go after.
- 14:38And most of your marketers aren't thinking that.
- 14:39They're still saying, hey, let's work on your logo.
- 14:42Let's get a really cool, fun ad.
- 14:43Maybe you're doing something silly.
- 14:46But trust is what's such an expensive commodity right now.
- 14:50And to go back to Christian statement, that's often about authenticity, although it's deeper than that.
- 14:57And that's really what we're trying to teach people with the conviction-driven marketing.
- 15:00And just to add some weight to it, 85 % of all US consumers are now saying that they're considering a brand's values when they buy their products.
- 15:11And 75 % of all consumers are saying they've switched a product in the last 12 months over a values misalignment.
- 15:18And we can think of the high profile examples.
- 15:20We've got people out there these days keying Elon Musk's Tesla cars or whatever, or people leaving Bud Light over uh brand misalignment there.
- 15:31And so we see it with these big brands, but it's also true of your company.
- 15:36If you're doing just a couple million dollars in sales, people really want to know, when I buy from you, is my money going where, you know,
- 15:47where something into places that I would approve of, right?
- 15:51Are you treating your employees the way I approve of?
- 15:56And so that is something that the whole country is looking at, not just conservatives and Christians, but even, but amongst conservatives and Christians of which there are 76 and a
- 16:08half million of them from our study.
- 16:10They spend $5 trillion a year and they really want to know, Hey, if I'm buying from you,
- 16:16Do you match my values?
- 16:18Yeah, that's going to segue really nicely.
- 16:21I don't feel like you've answered it wholly yet uh to the secret question.
- 16:26So the secret question, what is the secret to creating trust in a marketing situation?
- 16:32Yeah, I think it's connecting on an identity level, right?
- 16:38So we talked about sports earlier, right?
- 16:42And so right today, right now, I'm a rather enthusiastic Pacers fan because the Pacers are progressing in the playoffs, they're pulling off all these unexpected wins.
- 16:54But four months ago in the middle of their season, I couldn't tell you what their record was.
- 16:59I couldn't name all of their starting players, but now I'm watching it.
- 17:03Now I'm emotional about it.
- 17:04They lost on Sunday after winning two games in New York, right?
- 17:07So now I'm all emotional about it.
- 17:12But that fandom is really sort of temporary, right?
- 17:16I don't, there's nothing, you know, I'll feel bad for 24 hours and I might have a couple of friends from New York who'll razz me if the Knicks beat the Pacers, but it really
- 17:27doesn't.
- 17:28change my life in one way or the other.
- 17:30don't feel affected significantly.
- 17:34And too many of us are trying to market to that kind of level, right?
- 17:42We're talking to people, we got a best price.
- 17:44We have a cool new feature.
- 17:47Those are all fleeting.
- 17:48They go away and all that has to happen is for your competitor to drop their price by 5 % and that whole thing goes away or they add a new feature.
- 17:58Or you're selling on Amazon and Amazon decides to start copying your product or some Chinese knockoff.
- 18:04Those are completely indefensible positions right now for a company.
- 18:09But when you can connect with people on an identity level, I share your values.
- 18:15We're people who we share faith, we share a uh political identity.
- 18:20You're connecting with them in a way that makes them loyal to you so much deeper than what I'm just buying.
- 18:28Because it's cheaper than the store next door.
- 18:31They've got a special going on.
- 18:32I got a coupon.
- 18:33It's all very fleeting.
- 18:35Identity is unchangeable.
- 18:37People's faith and politics remain very similar over time.
- 18:41Whereas you were a Colts fan one day, and then you were a Broncos fan the next day.
- 18:47em And so we've got to connect on a much deeper level.
- 18:51That's, think, the secret today.
- 18:53And again, a lot of people are missing it in their marketing.
- 18:58Okay, if you're listening, wherever you're listening to this, or you're watching this on YouTube, I want you to rewind and listen to that whole piece again.
- 19:07That's one of the things that we talk about all the time at the Prophet Christian Business is what are your underlying values?
- 19:12How are you, like the word profitable, I tell people this all the time.
- 19:16Yes, we want your business to be more profitable, but we want you to be profitable for the kingdom.
- 19:20Those values from your business need to represent kingdom values, right?
- 19:25I'm sure you can go into this really well.
- 19:27I'll give a short story first about a local business here.
- 19:30uh There's a, it's grown since then.
- 19:34There's a business here called Trop, when it started it was called Tropical Chicken.
- 19:38And it was run, it's run by this guy named Lazaro uh Montoya, I think is his last name.
- 19:44But uh he had this little one man like business, right?
- 19:50Went there all the time.
- 19:51He attracted a crowd.
- 19:52And when you walked in, what was playing on the speakers?
- 19:55Praise music.
- 19:57Mm-hmm.
- 19:58had a woman come in there, sit down and says, you will not make it if you keep playing that music.
- 20:04And he's like, I appreciate your opinion, but I'm not going to stop doing that.
- 20:08Right?
- 20:09Today he's opening up a new restaurant every single month and he's expanded into other restaurants.
- 20:16It is just so great to see that kind of thing.
- 20:17Cause he stood on his values.
- 20:19Right?
- 20:20And I think I'd love your take on Chick-fil-A because I'm a Chick-fil-A fan.
- 20:25I'm never going to go away from Chick-fil-A.
- 20:27So that's to me, that's one of the best businesses that represents this.
- 20:32Well, and to your point, it's interesting because there are signals, right?
- 20:36In your example of this restaurant, right?
- 20:40There are signals that are being sent.
- 20:41It's not like you've got to put a big, you know, Jesus fish, you know, on all your things.
- 20:47It's the music he's playing.
- 20:49mean, Chick-fil-A, we know about the values of the founders, but their service is outstanding.
- 20:56Outstanding.
- 20:57which is a big piece of this too, which is you want to exemplify that in everything you do and how you treat your employees, how you treat your customers, what's your follow-up,
- 21:05what's the experience that they have.
- 21:06uh And so all of those things go into it because you still have to have an excellent product.
- 21:12You still have to compete at that level.
- 21:14um But yeah, I mean, again, they have an amazing chicken sandwich, but I will drive out of my way.
- 21:21I will inconvenience myself.
- 21:22pay more to eat at Chick-fil-A than I would uh another place.
- 21:27Yeah, and we tell people, and this would be true of tropical chicken, right?
- 21:31There's 76 and a half million Liberty spenders in this country, people who are significantly more likely to buy from a brand if they know it matches their conservative
- 21:40or Christian values.
- 21:41So whereas you might be a little worried, well, maybe I turned off this one customer because they didn't like the Christian music playing.
- 21:48But you're going to bring in people who, out of the 76 and a half million, and for a restaurant to thrive,
- 21:58They don't need even a fraction of that, particularly in upstate New York, right?
- 22:02They need to find the 5,000 people who really, uh really, really love this and are willing, are gonna come back to that restaurant two or three times a month to eat because
- 22:14they know that the ownership aligns with their values.
- 22:18And so that example is something that sometimes scares people off because they think, oh, I lost this person.
- 22:25But the people you attract,
- 22:27are going to outnumber the people who don't find you in alignment with them.
- 22:33Yeah, I had my own battle with this.
- 22:37me and God butted heads because I had this whole notion.
- 22:41I want to appeal to everybody.
- 22:42Right.
- 22:43I, and I was more of a behind the scenes.
- 22:45didn't have a podcast that you rarely find me on social media.
- 22:49And God basically told me, I want you to come out from behind the scenes and share my word and have me all throughout your business.
- 22:58was like, God, how am going to track the loss that way?
- 23:01He's like, don't worry about it.
- 23:02I got.
- 23:03Right?
- 23:04Like because we help businesses grow and the more that we help businesses grow the more that they're gonna help the kingdom grow.
- 23:09So, oh yes.
- 23:12what's exactly the thinking.
- 23:13That's exactly right.
- 23:14And by the way, you know, not only attracting people that are that are, you know, really bought in, but those people are more likely to refer you right to repurchase, reorder
- 23:25higher lifetime value.
- 23:26So, I mean, depending on your business and which one of those things applies, all of those things are adding to the bottom line um and giving you a greater chance to have more
- 23:35impact.
- 23:37I was really astounded by this number that you use in your marketing.
- 23:42$5 trillion market.
- 23:45um Wow.
- 23:47um How did you come up with that number?
- 23:53So here's what we did.
- 23:55Coming from politics, we're big about data, right?
- 23:59And we were curious.
- 24:00We know that there are businesses that are thriving by marketing to conservatives and Christians.
- 24:05uh Black Rifle Coffee Company went public for over a billion dollars, right?
- 24:10We know that Chick-fil-A and Hobby Lobby are thriving.
- 24:13We know that Patriot Mobile, Every Life Diapers,
- 24:17and a countless number of other businesses are really starting to take off on this basic concept.
- 24:23But we were curious, how big is this, right?
- 24:26mean, Chick-fil-A also has a really killer sandwich.
- 24:29So maybe they're just grabbing a lot of Americans who just love their chicken.
- 24:34Maybe they just like it more than Popeyes and to Kristen's point, have a good service.
- 24:39So we did a big deep dive, a big national survey asking consumers
- 24:46How much do they value this and how much is it likely to change their purchasing patterns?
- 24:52And then built out a nationwide model based on that survey to find 76 and a half million people who care about, significantly more likely to buy if they associate your brand with
- 25:04conservative or Christian values.
- 25:07Now of that 76 and a half million, 45 million like to see both.
- 25:11Of the rest of 30 million, they're
- 25:13basically evenly split.
- 25:15care about Christian values, not really conservative values, or they care about conservative values, not really Christian.
- 25:21So we're also capturing some people in that list that might not be a faith at all, or he may be politically conservative, but they're, you know, they're, they're Muslim or
- 25:31something.
- 25:31So they're, we do capture a pretty diverse audience.
- 25:34That group of people based on what we know of them and all of the data on them.
- 25:39makes and spends about $5 trillion a year.
- 25:42That's a little bit of an inexact science.
- 25:44Either way though, it's a massive market, but it does tie to what we know of the population in general, because we know that the, of the population in general, 75 % of
- 25:55them, as I mentioned earlier, no matter what faith they are, no matter where they stand on the political spectrum have said, hey, we've switched a brand on this.
- 26:04So if you're not thinking about this as a business, you're behind already, right?
- 26:09because this isn't some emerging uh thing that's kind of percolating with 5 % of population.
- 26:14It might become a thing later.
- 26:16This is now two, three quarters of American consumers are saying this is already one of their top issues when they buy from a brand.
- 26:26So, and it also helps with people who are just scared to do it.
- 26:29As your customers are already asking and they're already looking.
- 26:34So you might as well tell them, right?
- 26:37And so, uh
- 26:38So that's a long winded answer probably to your $5 trillion question.
- 26:42No, no, no, that was really good.
- 26:44We've talked about some big businesses.
- 26:46We've talked about Chick-fil-A, Black Rifle Coffee.
- 26:49A lot of my audience are kind of the smaller Christian businesses, right?
- 26:54do uh you have any insights into how a small Christian business, uh maybe it's not even just Christian, a conservative, my audience is going to be Christian, but how can they
- 27:05leverage their resources to begin to leverage the conviction-driven marketing to reach the liberty spenders?
- 27:13I think, you know, for us, that's what I get so excited about.
- 27:17It's because there are so many ways to do this.
- 27:21It's not just one way.
- 27:22In fact, we highlight that in our book, um which is, you know, we don't just go to paid advertising.
- 27:29Like we don't go there.
- 27:31There's so many other things that I would even argue a lot of times more effective.
- 27:35So for a smaller business, again, depending on if you're B2B or B2C, there's podcasts, right?
- 27:41Like what we're doing right now.
- 27:42um There's email.
- 27:44You know, do you have your customer list?
- 27:47Do you have their contact information?
- 27:49You can start putting in those messaging and value add moments with your customers in email.
- 27:56There's organic social without having to pay.
- 27:59And then there's just what networking opportunities, right?
- 28:03So if you're a service business and you're B2B, networking with intention.
- 28:08So I want to find people of like mind, okay, what's that going to be?
- 28:12You know, what is authentic to me?
- 28:14What do I want to highlight with my business?
- 28:17And then where do I find, you know, where do I think are the best places to network to find those people?
- 28:21And so it's amazing how we are able to help clients just with those things that don't cost, I mean, marginal, maybe email, if you don't already have it, but marginal to
- 28:30nothing.
- 28:32And just by being intentional about it, are increasing their relationships, they're forming strategic partnerships, and they're finding all kinds of ways to increase their
- 28:41business.
- 28:42um And by the way, getting more fulfillment out of it because it's now connected.
- 28:47It's aligned.
- 28:48And so, you know, for many business owners, this is em not to get sidetracked, but it can be lonely, you know, um being an entrepreneur and you have so much hanging on you.
- 28:59And so this kind of helps, think also get out of this rat race of just, okay, I got to my sales quota, you know, or I got to reach this goal for this quarter.
- 29:07Then I got to go again, go again.
- 29:09There's so many things we think about as business owners with the culture, with the quality of product and service.
- 29:14m And by also tying this in and making this a core piece of your marketing, oh gosh, it's just the fulfillment just goes through the roof because of those things being in
- 29:25alignment.
- 29:27I would also argue this is a best strategy for small businesses.
- 29:34I look at it this way.
- 29:35If you're a landscaper in
- 29:39You know, Rochester, New York, how many landscape companies are in Rochester?
- 29:44There's probably dozens.
- 29:46Right.
- 29:47And if you're a consumer saying, I got to go pick one of these people, what are you going to do?
- 29:51And you're to do a couple of things.
- 29:52You might ask a friend, I like your lawn.
- 29:55Who does that stuff?
- 29:57Or you might Google it and then you're going to see 10 landscapers.
- 30:00You're going to think, how do I know who's the best?
- 30:03Maybe you look at a rating site, but if, but by coming out and saying, you know what?
- 30:08We're a landscape, we're landscapers and we're people of faith.
- 30:11And we give our employees Sundays off or we donate a percentage of our profits to the church or, you know, we're really involved in various charities or, you know, we really
- 30:23believe in doing it right because we're people of faith.
- 30:26That's a differentiator that just by stating it makes you different than anybody else when they are out looking for a landscaper.
- 30:34So you might be shocked how much business you would get simply
- 30:38by stating this, it's a differentiator.
- 30:40It's really powerful for small business because you don't, again, you don't need 76 and a half million of them.
- 30:47You know, there are thousands of customers in Rochester, New York today saying, I really want to hire a landscaper and they could, and I'm a Christian, this is some, this would be
- 30:58a decision maker for me.
- 30:59I know for me, that's the person I'm calling first.
- 31:05Yeah, a couple things.
- 31:07I want to go to your answer, then I want to go back to Christian's answer.
- 31:12You're actually hurting your growth the more you're trying to appeal to everybody, right?
- 31:17Especially when you're smaller, because uh you're not Coca-Cola yet, right?
- 31:21You may never be Coca-Cola, right?
- 31:24And you're actually hurting your growth if you're trying to try to think everybody is your market, because it's just not true.
- 31:30ah That's one thing that we talk about a lot.
- 31:33in what we do.
- 31:34And Kristen, I love what you said, because we talk about this a lot as well is marketing through relationship building.
- 31:41Right?
- 31:42Almost everything that you mentioned was about relationship building.
- 31:46Was it networking?
- 31:46Was it some organic social media, those type of things, podcasting?
- 31:50uh We're building a relationship right now.
- 31:52This is the first time I met you, but we're building a relationship.
- 31:54And I already knew coming on that you were going to lie.
- 31:58But uh I really feel like some of the biggest
- 32:02business moves for me has been in the relationship building.
- 32:05It hasn't been paid media.
- 32:06It has been building a relationship with somebody and boom, that sparked something else, right?
- 32:11So uh I love what you had to say there.
- 32:14And even in big consumer facing brands, that relationship building is priceless because again, it leads to deals or distribution or so.
- 32:23mean, that's just, that just works across any size, any industry.
- 32:29Yeah, yeah, I love it.
- 32:30Can we dive into your faith a little bit?
- 32:35All right.
- 32:37So is there a particular biblical principle or story that guides you?
- 32:44You know, I think a lot about
- 32:49You know, I think a lot about Tim Keller's book, Every Good Endeavor, if you've ever read it.
- 32:54It should be essential reading for every Christian business owner about the value of work and why God created and work.
- 33:03And uh I'm moved by the idea that God created a world and wanted man to work it and make it better, right, to organize it.
- 33:16And wanted us to do
- 33:19good and get joy from it.
- 33:21And Kristin hit the nail on the head when she was saying, a lot of business owners have lost that joy.
- 33:26There have been years in our 20 years in business, or as Kristin would say more accurately, 19 years in business, that I just wasn't sure why I was doing this because I
- 33:39realized I was just doing it because it was a paycheck, right, at that point.
- 33:44um
- 33:46I was making money and I'd lost a sense of how I was making the world a better place and how I was doing what God asked.
- 33:55so crazy considering we worked in politics.
- 33:57You know, we tell people this, they're like, you couldn't make that connection.
- 34:01You're, you know, you're electing congressmen, governors, it worked for a president and you're losing sight of this.
- 34:06So it can happen in any business, right?
- 34:10Absolutely.
- 34:11Can we dive into that a little bit about the whole political background?
- 34:15how did you get, I wanna know a little bit of the story now.
- 34:18So how did you get started in that?
- 34:20And then how did it transform to where you are now?
- 34:24Is that too long of a story?
- 34:27Well, that depends on who tells it, I suppose.
- 34:30We both uh struggle little bit telling this because, you know, as with any entrepreneur, it is not linear, it is not a straight line, it is like crazy.
- 34:41It's like, well, which part of the crazy story do you want to hear?
- 34:44um
- 34:50We met in college.
- 34:52This is the best way I think to start it.
- 34:53We met at Indiana Wesleyan University in Marion, Indiana.
- 34:56Christian school.
- 34:58Wonderful, by the way.
- 34:59Triple endorsement for anyone.
- 35:01And we met in the college Republicans of all places, right?
- 35:05I know, nerd alert.
- 35:06Yes.
- 35:08uh And we were both passionate about changing the world.
- 35:12And we thought the way to do it was electing politicians.
- 35:16I mean, I got interested in politics even in high school.
- 35:18I was a super nerd in that.
- 35:20regard.
- 35:21And we thought, man, he a briefcase to high school.
- 35:24Yeah.
- 35:25I can't believe I married this guy.
- 35:27Yeah.
- 35:27Well, she wasn't she wasn't around for all that.
- 35:30So we but yeah, we just thought we're just you know, we're going to elect these politicians and the Red Sea is going to part.
- 35:37The sun's going to come out.
- 35:38Everything's going to be wonderful.
- 35:40And, know, it wasn't I grew up in in high school was in nineteen in nineteen ninety four when Republicans took control of Congress for the first time in 40 years, I thought.
- 35:49Everything's going to be great.
- 35:51And so we got involved.
- 35:54We ran campaigns and we did the things political operatives do.
- 36:00And then we thought, well, hey, we hate being unemployed after every election.
- 36:03That's the worst part about being a political campaign manager is day after the election, win, lose, or draw, it's over.
- 36:09Your job's gone.
- 36:10So we had the brilliant idea, which was not so brilliant, that what we should do is start a business serving these people because then we wouldn't be unemployed after the election.
- 36:18So the new problem was...
- 36:20We weren't unemployed, but we lost all our clients after the election.
- 36:23But either way, we started that back in 06 and started working for small campaigns.
- 36:33Just here in Indiana.
- 36:35Yeah, just here.
- 36:35City council races, state reps, and worked our way up by doing bigger and bigger races.
- 36:42In 2010, we got our first big break.
- 36:44We did a couple of really big campaigns.
- 36:49you know, state Senator Scott Brown, who ran for US Senator in Massachusetts, if anybody remembers this race, because it was now 15 years ago, where he beat, he won a US Senate
- 37:01race in Massachusetts as a Republican, which hasn't happened since.
- 37:06And, uh and that really helped us, you know, grow.
- 37:10And what we had gotten good at during this time was raising small dollar funds online.
- 37:16So think of us as crowdfunding for
- 37:19political campaigns.
- 37:20We had people who would find the 25 or 35 or $50 email or text donations for candidates.
- 37:27And so over this time period from 2006 through 2024, we had helped raise over $500 billion.
- 37:36Million.
- 37:36Million.
- 37:37Sorry.
- 37:37500 million.
- 37:38500 billion would be awesome.
- 37:41Yeah.
- 37:42500 million.
- 37:43I think we're approaching 600 and we're being a little conservative in that number.
- 37:50But four Republican political candidates and helped elect over 100 members of Congress and 15 governors and 15 senators.
- 37:57And we worked for Donald Trump in 16.
- 38:00And so uh that's what we built.
- 38:03And it was a crazy ride because in 2009, you know, so we started our business, we're young, we don't know anything about business.
- 38:10uh And there were no elections in Indiana.
- 38:13And it was really rough.
- 38:14And we're like, how are we going to do this?
- 38:16You know, we've got no money, you know.
- 38:18And we started just traveling.
- 38:20We hit the road and we would sometimes sleep in our car because we couldn't afford hotels.
- 38:26We couldn't afford plane flights, right?
- 38:27Anybody who's listening, who's like, you know, started their business scrappy.
- 38:31You guys will get this.
- 38:33And we just worked.
- 38:35You know, we did not have the network.
- 38:37We built our business the exact opposite of other people in our space who typically work on high profile races.
- 38:43And then they hang out their shingle after they've built some relationships.
- 38:46So they get clients coming to them.
- 38:48We were just kids, just absolute nobodies, working really small local races um and then traveled and traveled.
- 38:56We've traveled over a million miles, you know, on our car um and that's how we did it.
- 39:01Again, back to that relationship building and just uh being the people that we're gonna work and serve.
- 39:06And so it was all God, God really blessed us and he just put us in these right places.
- 39:11Cause again, this big breakout campaign ended up being the...
- 39:15national flashpoint because Obama had been elected.
- 39:18uh And so this was the big race after that.
- 39:22And it was huge, covered everywhere.
- 39:25And that just catapulted us.
- 39:27And we got that race because we were friends with someone and their web vendor had quit and they didn't have any money to pay us.
- 39:33And we thought, well, sure, we'll do it.
- 39:35What else do we have going on?
- 39:37And so again, it's just, I can't even say anything we did.
- 39:41We worked.
- 39:42But obviously it was just God's
- 39:44God's favor and putting us in that right place.
- 39:46then that led to us doing Mitt Romney's campaign and helping him raise money in 2012.
- 39:51And it just kept building from there because we built that expertise.
- 39:54And that's what we're so excited to bring to businesses now, because all this time we'd have people say, can you, you're a marketing company.
- 40:01Can you my business?
- 40:02You know, no, no, this is our niche.
- 40:05This is what we know.
- 40:06I don't want to pretend to be something I'm not.
- 40:08I can't help you.
- 40:09And now we can.
- 40:11Now we can because we have figured out and God has put in our hearts all these things we've learned about, you know, converting people to vote and to open their wallets when
- 40:21they get nothing in return.
- 40:23We now understand those principles.
- 40:26We know the ecosystem, we know the media, we know what they watch and listen to.
- 40:29And we can now help uh impact driven, visionary, kingdom building entrepreneurs build their business and have an impact for their family, their community and the kingdom.
- 40:41Wow.
- 40:42I love your story.
- 40:43heard you had to have a very strong why buried underneath there because uh often there's that breaking point where most entrepreneurs give up, right?
- 40:52When they're going through that struggling period and like, maybe entrepreneurship isn't for me, right?
- 40:58But deep down we know it's God's calling on our life and we push through, right?
- 41:03Because he's given us a mission, right?
- 41:09and we're here to complete it.
- 41:10So I love that story so much.
- 41:13um I do want to talk a little bit more about exactly like dive into that just a little bit more about how you help businesses with what you do.
- 41:22So um what sort of specific things do you help them with?
- 41:28Yeah.
- 41:29um, we, so as we talked about our basic proposition is you've got this market segment that you didn't even know existed until we told you about it called Liberty Spenders.
- 41:43And we're going to help you be popular with that group and generate leads for your business.
- 41:49So our, our goal, our outcome we're pursuing on our clients is let's amp up your revenue and sales by teaching you how to talk to those people.
- 41:56And we take people through.
- 41:58And if you read our book, you get it all.
- 41:59um Our five P's for success, engaging in conviction driven marketing to get to these Liberty Spender consumers.
- 42:11And so we'll walk people through it.
- 42:13And we, for some customers, what we do is simply kind of hold their hand through the process, but they do all the work.
- 42:21We show them how to do it.
- 42:23um
- 42:24We teach them how to do it.
- 42:26We put them in front of some amazing, successful people who've already done it to learn the whole process, but they do it all.
- 42:34We have a program where we do that with them in a group setting, and they also get to network with other people achieving this, and there's a lot of opportunity for people to
- 42:44collaborate and work together.
- 42:46And then for some consumers or companies more on an invitation basis, we will actually do it for them.
- 42:53will become their marketing agency.
- 42:55A lot of times we're collaborating with who they already have.
- 42:58We're not here to get your marketing agency fired.
- 43:01We're here to make them more effective, right?
- 43:05But in some cases, we'll come in in a really big way.
- 43:07We've got a team of 30 people and we can really, really dig in in multiple places.
- 43:14And in that case, we would help them with things like how to get out into the market.
- 43:19We'll help them with PR, podcast booking.
- 43:21We'll help run...
- 43:23ads for them will help develop new creatives or connect them with our vast network of email, conservative email newsletter owners, things like that.
- 43:34So we will have two tracks.
- 43:37Yeah.
- 43:38I was just thinking, uh depending on if you have a product, one amazing thing too is um brand ambassadors or spokespeople.
- 43:48And so that's one thing we've been doing a lot of, it's been having a lot of success as well, but
- 43:53Because again, it's like, how does anybody, the number one question we get, people say, gosh, this is amazing.
- 43:58I love this concept.
- 44:00Now what?
- 44:01Like, how is anybody going to know who I am?
- 44:03How am I going to connect or build that trust?
- 44:06And so sometimes you can leverage other people's trust, right?
- 44:10By aligning with someone who's excited about your product or service and they can be a brand spokesman for you.
- 44:17Yeah.
- 44:17And we just finished one, crossed my fingers, maybe by today.
- 44:22with uh a uh Christian actor for one of our customers.
- 44:28And it took a couple of months to really come up with a good agreement.
- 44:32And this actor really wanted to be confident in the quality of their product.
- 44:36But that's gonna be uh something that's gonna take a wellness brand that nobody knows about to an audience of hundreds of thousands, if not millions, overnight.
- 44:49Because you're borrowing the trust.
- 44:50Mm-hmm.
- 44:51Christian actor is well known and well trusted by their people.
- 44:55So instead of having to go through what could be a months long process of trying to educate people, hey, I'm a Christian business owner and I sell health and wellness
- 45:03products and we try to honor Christ in everything we do and try to get attention, they're now borrowing the credibility that this particular actor has.
- 45:13And I think it's gonna be a really powerful opportunity for them.
- 45:17And so Chris is right to mention this is something we actually really enjoy these kinds of deals because they're really cool for a company.
- 45:22Some of them get to end up working with people that they've, you know, always admired or, or, you know, watched their TV shows, you know, and so it can be really fun.
- 45:32Yeah, I imagine that's a big amplifier.
- 45:36it takes the timeline.
- 45:38It speeds the timeline way up because, you know, we know when you're trying to establish a brand from fresh, right from start, it takes a little while because you got to get out
- 45:48there.
- 45:48You've got to start putting your your values out there, your personality out there.
- 45:53And it just takes a little while to develop that.
- 45:55when you can begin by leveraging someone else's authenticity, I'm not even saying that right.
- 46:02Authenticity, that's the word I'm trying to say.
- 46:04Authenticity, I'm just thinking, if you could get Tim Tebow to endorse your product, boom, you're immediately on the world stage.
- 46:11uh
- 46:13we do that.
- 46:13And also, you know, if you are going to then put paid paid dollars, you want something like that.
- 46:19You know, not every business owner or founder is going to want to be the face of the of the brand or, you know, they may not feel comfortable being in the spotlight in that way.
- 46:27And so this is a great way to solve that problem.
- 46:29Yeah.
- 46:30Yeah, wow.
- 46:32I love all this.
- 46:32I feel like I could have you all on for a second time and maybe we'll talk about that down the road.
- 46:39I'm glad that I met you.
- 46:40I think there's like I mentioned off camera, there's some opportunity here for us.
- 46:45I have some people that I wanted to introduce you to.
- 46:47So yeah, that's right.
- 46:53And I will say, just Doug, from what you shared, if I could encourage you, because anybody who's listening, you know, can feel your heart.
- 46:59It really shines through even through a zoom.
- 47:02And, you know, your decision, I think, to put yourself out there and what I just I was so excited about talking to you because, again, the profitable Christian business is so like,
- 47:13I think sometimes we have such big hearts.
- 47:16You know, people of faith, we want to help people, which I do.
- 47:19um But we need to be successful.
- 47:22We need to have profit.
- 47:24That is what drives future growth.
- 47:26That is what drives generosity, contribution.
- 47:29And so I just want to give kudos to you for putting that out there because it is a business, not a charity.
- 47:35Now, the idea is we then fuel charities.
- 47:39But the business like we need to be, God calls us to be wise and shrewd.
- 47:43And um and so I
- 47:45I give props to you on what you're doing.
- 47:48Thank you, thank you, yeah.
- 47:49You have to have something to give in order to give, right?
- 47:52And the more profitable you can be, the more you can have to give.
- 47:56So, well, thank you again.
- 47:58Where can we, I almost forgot, but let's do this.
- 48:02First of all, where can we send people to find out more about Liberty Spenders and what you do?
- 48:07Yeah, well they can go to LibertySpenders.com and we also have a place where they can download the book.
- 48:15And so they can also go to LibertySpenders.com backslash free and they can download our book for free.
- 48:22Now, if you want to make a donation to college fund for our three or five year old, you can also go to Amazon and buy it.
- 48:32Speaking of profitable business, yes, you can buy it on Amazon.
- 48:35Yes.
- 48:37Or you can download a digital version.
- 48:39We're able to do that.
- 48:41And then go to LibertySpenders.com flesh free and um make sure you sign up for your, for email there.
- 48:48I think you'll give an email address to do it because we're about to uh be promoting our next uh invitation to join our, our, our group and work with us on your marketing.
- 48:59And so uh that's a great way to start with us.
- 49:03And, but also for people who don't want to do that.
- 49:05We tried to write the book so it wasn't just a, it's not just some like really flimsy marketing book that you don't learn anything from.
- 49:13It's pretty exhaustive.
- 49:14You could read the book and implement pretty much all of what we told you yourself, right?
- 49:21There's worksheets and access to things.
- 49:23I think working with us makes it faster, but you could do it.
- 49:26And so definitely go and check it out.
- 49:29I do have a comment about that because one of the things that like we pound the table with is lead with value, right?
- 49:37And with what you just said about your book, you're leading with value.
- 49:43Like when we're talking to people about how they should uh engage, how they should, what their lead magnet should be, make sure that they're leaving with value, right?
- 49:52That it's not just something they're just gonna put, they have to be able to take action from what you give them.
- 49:57mm-hmm.
- 49:58Yeah.
- 49:59Yeah, and this isn't some AI-generated book, you know.
- 50:03No, it'd be a lot better if it, you we wrote this.
- 50:07I'm sorry to say.
- 50:10Right.
- 50:11Yes.
- 50:13Yep, the audiobook's out there.
- 50:14We read it ourselves, so it's in our voice.
- 50:17So if you really want help falling asleep, you know, you could also listen to the audio version and...
- 50:23Check us out at audible.com.
- 50:26I listen to most of my audiobooks while I'm working out, so I don't think I'd fall asleep.
- 50:31Let's hope not.
- 50:34I do have one last question for every single person that comes on the Prophet Christian business.
- 50:39And that is, I hate to leave any stone unturned.
- 50:42And there may be in either one of your heads right now, I wish I could have said this.
- 50:46I really wanted to share this.
- 50:47So any parting words of wisdom for the audience.
- 50:54I I may have said this already, but I just want to reemphasize it.
- 50:59I think what we're talking about here with conviction-driven marketing, generically speaking, and with Liberty Spenders more specifically, I think this is the marketing
- 51:11strategy for the next decade.
- 51:13Everything that's happening in our world, all the tribalism we've come to expect from politics is now affecting consumer behavior.
- 51:22And so some of you are listening to this and thinking, is cute, but maybe not for me.
- 51:27I'm going to, I'm going to do what we've been doing for the last two decades.
- 51:31I'm going to talk about why we're the market leader here.
- 51:34We're the cost leader, know, we're Walmart falling prices, whatever the thing is.
- 51:37Um, but I think that stuff just isn't working the way it used to.
- 51:44And if you're struggling right now thinking why I've got a good thing going, I've got a good business and you just can't break through.
- 51:53I think this is your recipe for it.
- 51:54And so you don't have to work with us, but you dive into this concept because I really do believe what we're talking about here, everyone's gonna be talking about in five or six
- 52:07years.
- 52:07You could be somebody who grabs onto this early as a business and build something before everybody else realizes, yeah, I need to be doing this too.
- 52:17Well, and with AI, you know,
- 52:21content, it's just going to get easier and easier to flood the zone with all kinds of stuff.
- 52:25Again, it goes back to, don't know what it is.
- 52:28I don't know who wrote it.
- 52:29I don't.
- 52:30And that's why that authenticity and building that brand and building that trust is so critical, because it's only going to get harder and harder to stand out and for people to
- 52:39trust you and connect.
- 52:42Yeah, I'm in the uh lane of the relationship builders are really going to start standing out.
- 52:48uh The authenticity is really going to start standing out because it's going to be flooded with so much inauthenticity and so much AI generated stuff, right?
- 52:59That people want to connect with real people.
- 53:03Yeah, when creating content is now free and easy, then it's now commoditized and less valuable.
- 53:11So all the stuff that we used to think about doing in just a few years is just not as valuable anymore.
- 53:20When I can push a button and say, want to make a video and have ChatGPT created, or I want to write a case study and have ChatGPT make it up.
- 53:32All of that stuff becomes devalued.
- 53:35And so that's only going to accelerate what we're talking about right here in my opinion is em because all of this stuff that we used to do that used to take forever.
- 53:44If you wanted to make a cool ad that everybody watched, you're to to spend a lot of money on it and you're going to spend a lot of time.
- 53:50That's, that's all gone.
- 53:52And so it's, it's time just to join in on this trend em because it's going to define uh marketing, I think for the next decade.
- 54:02Yeah.
- 54:03Wow.
- 54:03uh Thank you again.
- 54:05You have been some of my favorite guests uh ever on the podcast.
- 54:09So much great information.
- 54:11Again, go to Liberty, anyone that's watching or listening, go to LibertySpenders.com.
- 54:17you're one of my audience, I implore you to go to Amazon to buy their book.
- 54:21We'll put that link below.
- 54:22There is a free version, but we're talking about profitable.
- 54:26The name is in the podcast.
- 54:28uh
- 54:28ha.
- 54:29want your business to be profitable.
- 54:30Let's continue to help Liberty Spenders continue to be profitable.
- 54:33uh go to that link, buy the book.
- 54:36uh Actionable content in there, not just fluff.
- 54:40So uh go use it and then hire them uh once you've read the book and said, wow, this is some great stuff.
- 54:46I really need some more leverage.
- 54:48So uh thanks again, Kurt and Christian.
- 54:51It has been uh really, really nice to have you on the show.
- 54:55Thank you Doug.
- 54:57All right, and until next time, entrepreneurs, keep moving forward.