Latest / North Side Territory: A Chicago Cubs Podcast / With Shota Imanaga out, Cade Horton could be next up in Cubs rotation

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With Shota Imanaga out, Cade Horton could be next up in Cubs rotation · North Side Territory: A Chicago Cubs Podcast

0:06
Speaker 1: Welcome into North Side Territory. Foul Territory Networks Cubs Podcast.
0:10
Speaker 1: I'm Sahadev Sharma with my partner Patrick Mooney. We are
0:14
Speaker 1: your Cubs beat writers over at the Athletic Patrick. The
0:18
Speaker 1: Cubs continue to play great baseball. Frankly, everyone is contributing.
0:23
Speaker 1: The offense continues to look great. You know, the one
0:27
Speaker 1: issue right now, the main thing we're going to talk
0:29
Speaker 1: about right now is Shoda Monaga heads to the I L.
0:34
Speaker 1: I was there on Sunday when the injury occurred. It
0:38
Speaker 1: seemed pretty obvious what was happening. It was a hamstring
0:41
Speaker 1: issue that was confirmed soon soon after just running to
0:46
Speaker 1: first covering first on a potential three six one double
0:49
Speaker 1: played looked at you know.
0:51
Speaker 2: It was immediate.
0:52
Speaker 1: You could see as he slowed up and you could
0:54
Speaker 1: see like he just motioned to the dugout like this
0:57
Speaker 1: was an obvious thing, not something I think he's felt before.
1:01
Speaker 1: I think the one the one thing we got from
1:04
Speaker 1: postgame on Sunday was him saying, like, what happened in Pittsburgh,
1:10
Speaker 1: it didn't seem similar at all to this.
1:13
Speaker 2: It's hard to know, right, Like, if you're cramping, that can.
1:16
Speaker 1: Lead to weaknesses in the body that that caused that, right,
1:19
Speaker 1: But according to Council, according to him, Anaga like everything
1:23
Speaker 1: was great leading up into that start. They had no
1:25
Speaker 1: signs suggesting that, you know, he needed more time or
1:29
Speaker 1: he should take a break here. So I'm I'm not
1:33
Speaker 1: sure if the Cubs screwed anything up there. I don't
1:35
Speaker 1: think it would be fair to suggest that they did.
1:37
Speaker 1: But he's on the shelf, and that's that's that's the
1:42
Speaker 1: bottom line. He's headed to the il. What what did
1:44
Speaker 1: you hear on Monday when you were out at the ballpark.
1:49
Speaker 3: I don't know if it was a coincidence or not,
1:50
Speaker 3: but the Cubs went through PFPS picture fielding practice before
1:57
Speaker 3: Monday's game, doing those kind.
1:59
Speaker 4: Of covering the first moves.
2:02
Speaker 3: Shodo was unavailable to speak to the media. He met
2:06
Speaker 3: he was schedules meet with doctor Stephen Grizzlow closer towards
2:10
Speaker 3: first pitch.
2:11
Speaker 4: On Monday night.
2:13
Speaker 3: And you know, the Cubs are saying this is a
2:19
Speaker 3: mild strain. Craig Council said, you know, they're still looking
2:24
Speaker 3: at two plus weeks, which is kind of what you
2:28
Speaker 3: know when it's a fifteen day injured list. I think
2:35
Speaker 3: one point Jed Hoyer stressed was we don't want to
2:39
Speaker 3: just get him back. We want to get him back
2:41
Speaker 3: fully healthy and capable of doing all the things that
2:46
Speaker 3: he normally does as one of the game's best pitchers.
2:52
Speaker 3: We know how these timelines go, right like they're usual,
2:55
Speaker 3: they're very much subject to change, and it kind of
2:58
Speaker 3: goes through these cycles of fans and media freak out,
3:03
Speaker 3: the Cubs say this is actually like good news, considering
3:06
Speaker 3: you know, what the worst case could have been, and
3:08
Speaker 3: then it's we don't see him for a while, and
3:10
Speaker 3: the game just keeps moving on. So I would imagine,
3:15
Speaker 3: you know, we'll obviously get into how they go on
3:18
Speaker 3: from here.
3:19
Speaker 4: Kate Horton is certainly one name, but I'm curious to
3:24
Speaker 4: kind of ask, you know, when we go back.
3:26
Speaker 3: To regally, like are these things related, like all of
3:28
Speaker 3: a sudden to have like two leg issues after being
3:31
Speaker 3: extremely healthy during his rookie season in Chicago. And I
3:38
Speaker 3: guess the other component here too is you're already down
3:42
Speaker 3: justin Steel, right, so you know he's gone for the
3:45
Speaker 3: rest of the year. Javier Sad is on the injured
3:50
Speaker 3: list as well, which is basically, you know, sixty percent
3:53
Speaker 3: of a projected opening day rotation is just sidelined and
3:57
Speaker 3: showed it might be the first one to come back,
3:58
Speaker 3: and we have.
3:59
Speaker 4: No idea when he he's going to be fully ready either.
4:02
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's way too early, like the you know, the
4:04
Speaker 1: good news the bad news. We'll see as this progresses,
4:08
Speaker 1: like there can be setbacks, they can say, oh, it's
4:10
Speaker 1: not it's not responding like we hope, right, like we
4:14
Speaker 1: hear these things all the time. We'll have a better
4:18
Speaker 1: idea when he starts throwing again. I think Justin Steele's
4:22
Speaker 1: injury last year with his hamstring is a good kind
4:25
Speaker 1: of like something we can look at and say like, Okay,
4:29
Speaker 1: that's probably a good scenario. Right, he missed a month
4:33
Speaker 1: and came back and was pretty quickly effective. Again, That's
4:38
Speaker 1: that's what you have to hope with Shoda in mon Aga.
4:40
Speaker 1: I think there's a you know, anything sooner than a
4:44
Speaker 1: month I think would be aggressively optimistic. I think it's
4:47
Speaker 1: I guess it's possible, but it would be pretty optimistic there.
4:52
Speaker 1: But a month seems kind of realistic, and you you
4:54
Speaker 1: just have to kind of hope that there's no setbacks,
4:56
Speaker 1: that this isn't a recurring issue that that it quickly
5:00
Speaker 1: dissipates and he's out there throwing and feeling nothing and
5:03
Speaker 1: then you know, goes through the progression needed.
5:06
Speaker 2: Uh, you're right.
5:07
Speaker 1: The depth is the depth has taken a hit, Like
5:10
Speaker 1: this was something that I mean, I think it's important
5:14
Speaker 1: to like, it's an important reminder of why you have
5:19
Speaker 1: to add guys like Colin Ray and why guys like
5:22
Speaker 1: Chris Flexen are important.
5:24
Speaker 2: Like you don't want to.
5:26
Speaker 1: Dip into all these this depth, but the reality is
5:29
Speaker 1: it's a long season and you may have to. And
5:32
Speaker 1: now Flexen seems important. Now Colin Ray has been hugely
5:36
Speaker 1: important for this team. Jordan Wicks is struggling. He's struggling
5:41
Speaker 1: at Triple A. Like you can't predict all these things.
5:44
Speaker 1: Then remember the end of twenty twenty three, how good
5:46
Speaker 1: Jordan Wicks love? Yeah, yet that disasters start to end
5:50
Speaker 1: the season. But there was like a stretch like all
5:53
Speaker 1: his starts before that, we're really good.
5:55
Speaker 4: He had four or five really competitive starts in a
5:58
Speaker 4: playoff chase. It's very impressive.
6:00
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, and then last year was just a bad
6:03
Speaker 1: season for him injuries and ineffectiveness, and now he's struggling.
6:08
Speaker 2: He looked.
6:08
Speaker 1: He looks in great shape. Last time we saw him, right,
6:12
Speaker 1: he looked like he kind of like he'd really taken
6:15
Speaker 1: the off season seriously, like was doing everything needed.
6:19
Speaker 2: I talk to some people that say that suggest the
6:22
Speaker 2: pitch shapes and everything looks good.
6:23
Speaker 1: He's not effective right now, and that's just baseball, you know,
6:27
Speaker 1: Like you can't assume that these guys are going to
6:30
Speaker 1: be key parts of the rotation, which is why you
6:33
Speaker 1: need depth, which is why they signed guys like Colin
6:35
Speaker 1: Ray and Chris Flexen. So when we go through this
6:38
Speaker 1: every year where fans are like, why are they adding
6:40
Speaker 1: this guy? Why do you need John Birdie, Why do
6:42
Speaker 1: you need Colin Ray? This is why, Like Birdie's been important,
6:46
Speaker 1: and so's Colin Ray. I think it's a you know, obviously, Patrick,
6:52
Speaker 1: the most interesting aspect that we can talk about is
6:57
Speaker 1: Cad Horton, Right, is he a real option to fill
7:02
Speaker 1: Imnaga's spot? What did you hear when you were in Wrigley.
7:09
Speaker 3: So there are the words that Cub's officials said, and
7:12
Speaker 3: then there was kind of like the tone in which
7:15
Speaker 3: they said it, and both Jed Hoyer and Craig Counsel
7:18
Speaker 3: said Horton is an option. It's hard to tell sometimes
7:24
Speaker 3: what is just Craig Council's sort of normal default setting,
7:28
Speaker 3: and what is him being annoyed at the Horton questions
7:33
Speaker 3: or just sort of being I just of when you're
7:36
Speaker 3: talking about someone who's not on the team, it means
7:39
Speaker 3: that someone who's currently on the team could be out
7:42
Speaker 3: the door, right.
7:42
Speaker 4: I think he's sort of sensitive to that.
7:44
Speaker 3: And I will say too, circling back to something I
7:47
Speaker 3: said earlier, like it is challenging to talk about these injuries, right,
7:51
Speaker 3: Like a lot of it is just being patient and
7:55
Speaker 3: kind of waiting to see what's going to happen. And
7:59
Speaker 3: that's part of it here with Horton, Like they don't
8:05
Speaker 3: know exactly how long Im and Igua will be out,
8:08
Speaker 3: but you kind of want to know roughly how many
8:11
Speaker 3: starts you're gonna have to cover.
8:13
Speaker 4: And you could.
8:15
Speaker 3: On Saturday in New York do Chris Flexen and sort
8:21
Speaker 3: of a bullpen game. You have a day off scheduled
8:25
Speaker 3: for Thursday. There are actually a few Thursdays that are
8:29
Speaker 3: off days on the upcoming schedule.
8:31
Speaker 4: There are ways to sort of maneuver.
8:34
Speaker 3: We saw how good Council was in Milwaukee, with some
8:38
Speaker 3: of those bullpen style games. But we also know that
8:44
Speaker 3: Council always tries to build an extra rest for all
8:48
Speaker 3: of his starters. And as Jed said yesterday, like it's
8:55
Speaker 3: the it's sinko to Mayo, we got a long way
8:57
Speaker 3: to go. Like pushing your pitchers that hard this early
9:04
Speaker 3: in the season, there's going to be a cost to
9:06
Speaker 3: that down the line. And everything Council focuses on is
9:10
Speaker 3: kind of on preservation and making sure the team hits
9:15
Speaker 3: its stride come September. And you know, at this point
9:18
Speaker 3: the Cubs have to be planning as if they're going
9:21
Speaker 3: to be playing deep into October.
9:24
Speaker 4: So it's hard to.
9:26
Speaker 3: Tell, like how much of this is an internal debate,
9:28
Speaker 3: like is Kate Horton ready? Is he best served you know,
9:32
Speaker 3: working like really sharpening his pitches at a lower level,
9:38
Speaker 3: knowing full well that he has not had a huge
9:41
Speaker 3: volume of innings, whether it was in college at Oklahoma
9:46
Speaker 3: or in the minors all of that due to injuries.
9:50
Speaker 3: They've talked a lot about having this foundation, and so
9:55
Speaker 3: what I don't know is how much is it sort
9:57
Speaker 3: of just a natural back and forth. How much of
10:00
Speaker 3: it is like kind of asking questions or being a
10:04
Speaker 3: devil's advocate. I think we both agree he's coming up soon.
10:09
Speaker 3: We just don't know if it's going to be this Saturday,
10:13
Speaker 3: or maybe you kind of find him that softer landing spot,
10:16
Speaker 3: you know, not at City Field on a Fox National
10:19
Speaker 3: TV game against Juan Soto and the Mets.
10:23
Speaker 1: Right, there's some things I want to touch on right there.
10:25
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11:30
Speaker 1: Patrick cad horton the debate, I think you touched on
11:34
Speaker 1: some things that I think are worth talking about building
11:38
Speaker 1: up innings, right, He's he's thrown back to back six
11:43
Speaker 1: inning outings. He'd never thrown six innings in a game,
11:46
Speaker 1: in a professional game until those back to back outings.
11:51
Speaker 1: He has I want to say, under one hundred or
11:55
Speaker 1: under two hundred professional innings under his belt. Yeah, I
12:00
Speaker 1: could be I could be wrong on that, you know what,
12:02
Speaker 1: I'm going to double check that right now. But my
12:05
Speaker 1: point is ultimately what we're talking about when it comes
12:09
Speaker 1: to when it comes to how they look at pitchers
12:15
Speaker 1: and developing them and whether they're ready for the big leagues.
12:20
Speaker 2: This is a very different like calculus that.
12:24
Speaker 1: They use than they did five years ago, ten years ago.
12:28
Speaker 1: I've been touching on this in recent podcasts about first
12:31
Speaker 1: of all, the Cubs. The Cubs philosophy is shifting how
12:36
Speaker 1: they look at their prospects, how pitching prospects. They're being
12:39
Speaker 1: more aggressive, Like Kate Horton getting to six innings is
12:42
Speaker 1: them being a little bit more aggressive, pushing him, right,
12:45
Speaker 1: Nazia Mulay, Jackson Wiggins. These are two of the younger,
12:51
Speaker 1: super talented pitchers. They're pushing them with their pitch count
12:54
Speaker 1: and their innings. They don't measure things just by pitch
12:57
Speaker 1: count and innings anymore like that. That's, uh, that's kind
13:01
Speaker 1: of rudimentary. I guess you could say they have all
13:05
Speaker 1: these wearables that we've talked about that that spit out
13:08
Speaker 1: data and uh and and tell you whether a guy
13:13
Speaker 1: is tiring, whether a guy is feeling good. You can
13:16
Speaker 1: see it, Oh, his arm slot is dropping, or or
13:19
Speaker 1: he's compensating in this way, his the spin is changing
13:23
Speaker 1: on his pitches, his workouts aren't as intense, or or
13:28
Speaker 1: he's tiring quickly in workouts. Like even off the field,
13:31
Speaker 1: stuff is being measured and it tells them something about
13:35
Speaker 1: how the player is feeling, so like going off his
13:40
Speaker 1: innings is not is not going to be the main
13:44
Speaker 1: thing they do.
13:45
Speaker 2: I think. I think what you have to look at
13:47
Speaker 2: is it's as simple as is he ready to get
13:51
Speaker 2: major league hitters? Out right? I think that's that may
13:56
Speaker 2: be the bottom line. There are I think there are.
13:58
Speaker 1: Things I understand, like having the kind of having your
14:02
Speaker 1: feet under you and making sure that obviously the mental
14:05
Speaker 1: stuff that that type of stuff is important too, Right,
14:08
Speaker 1: So when you talk about giving them a soft landing,
14:10
Speaker 1: all those things, I think that's important. I think I
14:12
Speaker 1: think that matters. And you don't want to if you
14:15
Speaker 1: can avoid it. You don't want to throw him in
14:18
Speaker 1: New York on the road, you know, against a really
14:21
Speaker 1: good lineup like that's that's a lot to handle on
14:24
Speaker 1: a national broadcast, like you pointed out, so that that
14:27
Speaker 1: may if you can avoid that, why why force it?
14:29
Speaker 1: Maybe see what Chris Flexen can do. Get get four
14:32
Speaker 1: or five innings out of Chris Flexen and go from there.
14:35
Speaker 2: Uh but.
14:37
Speaker 1: Like just looking just saying you can't do it because
14:40
Speaker 1: he has I just looked at it. It's under two
14:42
Speaker 1: hundred innings, because he has that many innings. I don't
14:44
Speaker 1: think that that's how the philosophy is anymore.
14:47
Speaker 2: It's just not what they say, like Kenny.
14:49
Speaker 7: Get out and maybe he has limited innings in his
14:53
Speaker 7: professional career, so you want to maximize it. If he's ready,
14:56
Speaker 7: go out and get major league hitters out.
14:59
Speaker 1: Now you can do that, So why are we wasting
15:01
Speaker 1: your pitches in the minors?
15:04
Speaker 2: Right?
15:05
Speaker 1: I think that's that's what they That's some of the
15:10
Speaker 1: that's some of the debate that goes on.
15:12
Speaker 2: Right.
15:12
Speaker 1: I think what you were saying there is absolutely accurate,
15:15
Speaker 1: And I think maybe maybe you're right that Council just
15:18
Speaker 1: likes to present this other point of view. He likes
15:21
Speaker 1: to like maybe he wants Kate Horton up. Maybe he's
15:24
Speaker 1: he thinks he's ready and can get guys out, but
15:27
Speaker 1: he also likes he's like, hey, are we thinking about this?
15:29
Speaker 2: So we what about this aspect? Have we considered this?
15:32
Speaker 5: Like?
15:32
Speaker 2: Are we rushing him? If we do? This? Is this
15:35
Speaker 2: part right? Ready? All? I think that's that very well
15:38
Speaker 2: could be the case, But I don't know. I'm not
15:40
Speaker 2: inside Council's head.
15:43
Speaker 3: Well, I think I mean Jed Hoyer as well acknowledged
15:48
Speaker 3: the sort of final box that Horton has to check developmentally,
15:56
Speaker 3: is just constantly throwing competitive misses, sorry, competitive pitches, Like
16:04
Speaker 3: you're gonna miss sometimes, you're not gonna be perfect, but
16:08
Speaker 3: like you just have.
16:08
Speaker 4: To be in and around the zone consistently.
16:12
Speaker 3: And that Horton is so gifted and triple A hitters,
16:15
Speaker 3: are you know, not at a level where or basically
16:20
Speaker 3: at a level where he can get away with more,
16:24
Speaker 3: And that being in a one two count or being
16:26
Speaker 3: in the two to two count is a huge difference
16:30
Speaker 3: if you look at it, you know, kind of analytically
16:32
Speaker 3: over the course of the long season, and that Horton,
16:35
Speaker 3: because he's missed these used chunks of time, maybe isn't
16:40
Speaker 3: quite as sharp as you'd like. But at the same time, like,
16:44
Speaker 3: if he is this talented and if he is this
16:48
Speaker 3: locked in at this point, I don't think you really
16:52
Speaker 3: have a lot to lose by just seeing.
16:53
Speaker 4: What you have because the upside is so great.
16:58
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I we should see him soon.
17:01
Speaker 1: Like, it doesn't make sense to me to not if
17:03
Speaker 1: he's healthy, he like, he's he's he's improving too, right,
17:07
Speaker 1: He's back to his twenty twenty three self.
17:10
Speaker 2: As far as stuff he's he's.
17:14
Speaker 1: The walk rate is dropping each time he goes out,
17:16
Speaker 1: the innings are jumping. He's being more efficient. It's almost
17:22
Speaker 1: to the point where I wouldn't say it's there yet,
17:25
Speaker 1: but it's almost to the point where it's like, this
17:28
Speaker 1: is pointless.
17:28
Speaker 2: What does he have to learn a triple A?
17:30
Speaker 1: It's not quite there yet, but it's close. And now
17:35
Speaker 1: there's a need. I think the conversations I was having
17:38
Speaker 1: before this were where a lot of like, he's you know,
17:43
Speaker 1: you could make the argument that he's ready. There are
17:45
Speaker 1: people in the organization that believe he's ready. But where
17:49
Speaker 1: does he fit in the rotation right now? Like you
17:52
Speaker 1: can't take Ben Brown out? This was before Ben Brown's
17:55
Speaker 1: Friday start. The reason you can't take Ben Brown out
17:58
Speaker 1: and is as simple as this. Their depth is hurting, right,
18:03
Speaker 1: They're they're pitching. Depth is hurting. If you take Ben
18:06
Speaker 1: Brown out, are you sending him to triple A? Like?
18:08
Speaker 1: What does he what does he have to prove there?
18:10
Speaker 1: What's he learning from going to triple A? And if
18:13
Speaker 1: you're not taking and if you're not sending him to
18:15
Speaker 1: triple A, that means you're moving him to the bullpen.
18:17
Speaker 1: Now you just now you're losing length, right, he's gonna
18:21
Speaker 1: get shortened up and he's not gonna be ready to
18:23
Speaker 1: make a spot start if there's an injury like there
18:25
Speaker 1: just was. So I mean, obviously that's not a consideration.
18:30
Speaker 1: Now you need Ben Brown. But I'm just saying like,
18:34
Speaker 1: like they were so short already, Like you couldn't risk
18:36
Speaker 1: taking Ben Brown out of the rotation because you can't
18:39
Speaker 1: make him a reliever right now because you need that length.
18:41
Speaker 1: You need someone stretched out in the minor set you
18:44
Speaker 1: can call upon. And so Horton couldn't have taken that spot.
18:50
Speaker 1: Now now there's an obvious spot. Now you don't even
18:52
Speaker 1: need to have this debate like where does he fit?
18:54
Speaker 1: It's like here's the spot, and if he comes up
18:57
Speaker 1: and grabs a hold of it, imagine how good of
18:59
Speaker 1: a debate or how good of a problem?
19:02
Speaker 4: Right?
19:03
Speaker 1: Was this was that Madden's thing like these are good problems,
19:07
Speaker 1: you know, like these things kind of figure themselves out.
19:10
Speaker 3: Yeah, like three shortstops, Yeah, like, oh three short fit
19:14
Speaker 3: and it sorted itself out.
19:16
Speaker 2: Yeah.
19:17
Speaker 6: Yeh.
19:19
Speaker 1: Ultimately, I think Patrick, like beyond coming up for the
19:22
Speaker 1: Mets series.
19:23
Speaker 2: You you you talk to people about this.
19:27
Speaker 1: I believe like this is a good environment to come
19:30
Speaker 1: up in no doubt.
19:32
Speaker 4: I mean.
19:34
Speaker 3: We we are recording on a Tuesday morning, so the
19:37
Speaker 3: Cubs have game Tuesday night, Wednesday afternoon Friday night before
19:42
Speaker 3: this kind of show to Horton spot comes available. We
19:45
Speaker 3: don't know what's going to happen, right Like there could
19:46
Speaker 3: be another injury tonight tomorrow, you know, someone shows up,
19:51
Speaker 3: you know, presenting not as well. Stuff always happens. And
19:56
Speaker 3: so whether it's Saturday or a couple of days later,
20:00
Speaker 3: like Wharton's going to be up this year, as long
20:02
Speaker 3: as he's healthy, and I think this environment I was
20:05
Speaker 3: talking with James and Tyne about this.
20:08
Speaker 4: Of You know, you have.
20:12
Speaker 3: Two very well regarded catchers who care about pitchers and
20:18
Speaker 3: have you know, a lot of attention to detail and
20:20
Speaker 3: are also producing at an unbelievable rate offensively. You have
20:26
Speaker 3: a lineup that's just rolling right now, you know, from
20:31
Speaker 3: Ian hab at the top, and you know Kyle Tucker,
20:34
Speaker 3: Saya Suzuki, you know pe Crow Armstrong just becoming, you know,
20:41
Speaker 3: one of the most talked about players in baseball. You
20:45
Speaker 3: have Gold Glove defenders all over the field. You have
20:50
Speaker 3: a team that's just performing well. So it's not like
20:53
Speaker 3: you have to be the savior. Craig Counsel is someone
20:57
Speaker 3: who I remember Ben Brown saying before Council was even
21:01
Speaker 3: hired in Chicago, Brown was sort of looking at how
21:05
Speaker 3: Corbin Burns and Brandre and wood Drifts were used, like
21:08
Speaker 3: kind of their past to the big leagues and kind
21:10
Speaker 3: of the role Council played in that. Tyron referenced Tommy Hotteve,
21:16
Speaker 3: who's been around seemingly forever, you know, who has a
21:19
Speaker 3: World Series ring for his work, you know, as a
21:22
Speaker 3: coordinator on the run prevention side, but someone who has
21:26
Speaker 3: forged a lot of great relationships with you know, Japanese pitchers,
21:32
Speaker 3: justin Steele's developments to kind of reworking the bullpen on
21:35
Speaker 3: the fly. Like, you take all that together and I
21:40
Speaker 3: think it gets pretty easy to talk yourself into Kate Horton.
21:44
Speaker 4: Why not.
21:45
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean you present it like that and it
21:48
Speaker 1: seems kind of obvious, right, Like this isn't like, uh,
21:53
Speaker 1: no reason to overthink something sometimes I think, you know, ultimately,
21:59
Speaker 1: I think like there's no doubt we're seeing him this year,
22:02
Speaker 1: I mean soon this year, assuming health and continued effectiveness.
22:09
Speaker 1: My gut is ultimately telling me it's going to be
22:12
Speaker 1: real soon.
22:13
Speaker 5: Like.
22:14
Speaker 1: It just it makes a lot of sense. I think
22:17
Speaker 1: there's very few arguments against. The argument against is he's
22:21
Speaker 1: not ready. He needs to build up innings, and I
22:23
Speaker 1: don't think that's a strong argument right now because he
22:26
Speaker 1: looks ready and those innings are just more valuable at
22:30
Speaker 1: the bit at the highest level, especially right now for
22:32
Speaker 1: this team. They're trying to win there and win now mode.
22:37
Speaker 1: You need the best players up. Kate Horton, it looks
22:41
Speaker 1: like he's he'd be one of the best twenty six
22:43
Speaker 1: players on this team, one of the best starters with
22:46
Speaker 1: who's available right now.
22:48
Speaker 2: That's what it looks like. I think it's as simple
22:50
Speaker 2: as that.
22:50
Speaker 1: Patrick, I don't like, and I think they're eventually going
22:53
Speaker 1: to come to that conclusion.
22:57
Speaker 2: I don't.
22:58
Speaker 1: I think the people that we've talked to that that
23:02
Speaker 1: the feeling that we got even before this injury was
23:05
Speaker 1: that it wasn't far off. So I just it just
23:07
Speaker 1: seems like this may have sped it up slightly, but
23:11
Speaker 1: not not significantly.
23:12
Speaker 2: This was coming. We'll see what it is.
23:15
Speaker 1: I'm not sure if they're going to Maybe they announce
23:19
Speaker 1: it like after Friday's start, right it's maybe it'll be
23:22
Speaker 1: one of those things where they like to wait, especially council,
23:27
Speaker 1: Like it's not just council like Ross used to do
23:30
Speaker 1: this too. You just wait, Let's see what happens, right,
23:35
Speaker 1: we don't need to make a decision. Let's not make
23:37
Speaker 1: the decision like maybe they have. They're like, they have
23:41
Speaker 1: the scenarios. If this this and this happens, here's what
23:43
Speaker 1: we're doing. If this happens, this is what we're doing.
23:45
Speaker 1: You know, that's probably how they have it planned out
23:48
Speaker 1: right now, or they're close to have it planned out.
23:51
Speaker 2: And then what we'll know Friday evening is my guess.
23:54
Speaker 2: After the start, they'll say so and so is starting tomorrow.
23:59
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I imagine how the rest of the
24:03
Speaker 3: Giants series plays out. You know, could be some sort
24:06
Speaker 3: of a factor just because you never know. But yeah,
24:10
Speaker 3: eventually they're gonna come around to this.
24:13
Speaker 4: They almost have to.
24:14
Speaker 3: And if he's this good, if you think he could
24:19
Speaker 3: be like a like a big X factor for you
24:22
Speaker 3: in the second half, why not started this process a
24:26
Speaker 3: little earlier.
24:27
Speaker 4: When you don't need him to be an ace.
24:31
Speaker 3: And I think circling back to what you had said
24:34
Speaker 3: about kind of how innings limits are kind of a rudimentary,
24:38
Speaker 3: misleading concept, Like I go back to Garrett Crochet last year,
24:43
Speaker 3: like he hitched a lot without having kind of a
24:48
Speaker 3: traditional foundation, and I think as an industry, you're kind
24:53
Speaker 3: of seeing baseball people just kind of throw their hands
24:55
Speaker 3: up in the air and be like nobody really knows
24:58
Speaker 3: anything as well, just just let a ride with your
25:01
Speaker 3: with your best dudes.
25:03
Speaker 1: Yes, it's interesting you brought that up because Crochet was
25:06
Speaker 1: the example that I brought up while talking to some
25:09
Speaker 1: people and ultimately we all agreed, like nobody really has
25:15
Speaker 1: the answers, Like that's the main gate, Like they just
25:19
Speaker 1: don't like what you just said is so true.
25:21
Speaker 2: They don't.
25:21
Speaker 1: It's not like they're one hundred percent sure that none
25:23
Speaker 1: of it. It's just like why should we go off
25:25
Speaker 1: innings like that's that's like we have more information. I
25:28
Speaker 1: think this is probably better information, but we don't really
25:32
Speaker 1: know if that you know the exact way to do it,
25:34
Speaker 1: because it's still the hardest thing to figure out for them.
25:38
Speaker 1: The other thing that you just touched on before we go,
25:40
Speaker 1: I just want to like kind of building him up,
25:43
Speaker 1: getting him ready, Like you want him to have some
25:46
Speaker 1: hiccups maybe or no know what it's like the majors,
25:50
Speaker 1: So this is their schedule after the Mets, it's Miami
25:54
Speaker 1: White Sox, Miami, Cincinnati, Colorado, Cincinnati, Washington and then it
25:58
Speaker 1: gets hard again with Detroit and Phil Help. But that's
26:00
Speaker 1: that's a bunch of series right there where it's not
26:03
Speaker 1: like overwhelming competition, terrifying offenses, nothing like that is there
26:09
Speaker 1: just yet, so you you could get him A couple
26:11
Speaker 1: starts to be like, this is the majors, this is
26:14
Speaker 1: what it's like, and then the competition starts to get
26:17
Speaker 1: tougher and you see what you can do. Right, But
26:19
Speaker 1: I think that that makes sense as a landing spot
26:22
Speaker 1: for him.
26:22
Speaker 2: We'll see if the Cubs agree.
26:24
Speaker 1: We'll see, but I think like it seems like it's
26:27
Speaker 1: a good, good landing spot coming up. All right, Patrick,
26:30
Speaker 1: we'll have more episodes this week. We'll see if we
26:33
Speaker 1: have any any news on Horton. Like we said, I
26:37
Speaker 1: probably not come until till later in the week or
26:40
Speaker 1: after the week wraps up. Thanks so much for listening everyone.
26:42
Speaker 1: This is Northside Territory. Make sure to rate, review and subscribe.
26:45
Speaker 1: Subscribe to the YouTube channel, Subscribe to The Athletic where
26:49
Speaker 1: Patrick and I are on top of all things Cubs.
26:51
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to everyone taken.
27:01
Speaker 8: The name anyone, Everything about the day, the
27:23
Speaker 6: D