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Finding Courage In Every Country with Trevor James Wilson · The Elsa Kurt Show

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: She's the voice behind the viral comedy, bold commentary, and truth-packed interviews that cut through the chaos.
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: Author, brand creator, proud conservative Christian, this is Elsa Kurt.
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the show that always brings bold faith, real truth, and no apologies.
• 0:19
  Speaker 4: Oh, well, hello, my friends.
• 0:20
  Speaker 4: It is time for one of my favorite things to do.
• 0:24
  Speaker 4: We are doing the Elsa Kurt interviews, and I'm super excited about our guests today.
• 0:29
  Speaker 4: Um, you know, the best thing about this for me is that I get to talk to people that I think are so much more interesting than I am, and you get to benefit from that as well.
• 0:38
  Speaker 4: And today's guest is uh an author.
• 0:40
  Speaker 4: His name is Trevor James Wilson, and he's written a really incredible memoir.
• 0:47
  Speaker 4: And here is a little bit about it before we talk to him.
• 0:50
  Speaker: He's crossed continents, lived through history, and somehow kept his sense of humor.
• 0:54
  Speaker: Trevor James Wilson's memoir, Where Have I Been All My Life, is part travelogue, part soul search, and entirely unforgettable.
• 1:02
  Speaker: From the cafes of Paris to the shadow of the Berlin Wall, Trevor takes us on a journey of adventure, laughter, and quiet discovery.
• 1:12
  Speaker: Join Elsa Kirk for a conversation about resilience, belonging, and the beauty of finding meaning wherever life leads to you.
• 1:19
  Speaker 4: Well, Trevor, thank you for joining me on the show.
• 1:21
  Speaker 4: I'm so excited to talk to you.
• 1:22
  Speaker 4: How are you today?
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: I'm fine.
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: It's very nice to meet you.
• 1:26
  Speaker 4: It is wonderful to meet you, and I'm so excited to share your story.
• 1:30
  Speaker 4: So, uh, you know, we're gonna get into this part, but I just want to tell everybody again if I didn't tell you, the the name of the book is called Where Have I Been All My Life?
• 1:38
  Speaker 4: And I'm obsessed with the title of that book, so I can't wait to hear more about it.
• 1:44
  Speaker 4: Um, but correct me if I'm wrong, this is your debut book.
• 1:47
  Speaker 4: Is this your very first uh published book or no?
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: Yes, I've never ever considered myself able to write a book.
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: Um but being 84, my sister was asking me uh to write some things down because she wanted to be at my funeral and um say something about my life.
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: And so uh I started writing and suddenly I had 24 uh chapters, and I realized that I had done a lot in my life, even though to me it wasn't very uh noteworthy.
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: Um people who talk to me think that I've had an interesting life, and I've been able to travel the world since I was uh 16 years old, and um I've lived in three countries, uh England where I was born, Canada, and the United States.
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: And I think it's been my way of educating myself to not only the ways of the world and different peoples, but how people think and how you can inadvertently upset somebody by being careless.
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: Um so it's taught me to be, I think, a better person.
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: And so I thank travel for doing that for me.
• 3:09
  Speaker 4: Absolutely.
• 3:10
  Speaker 4: What an incredible way to learn about the world and about life.
• 3:14
  Speaker 4: Then, you know, what better way than to experience it, to be immersed in it, and you know, not sitting necessarily in a classroom and then there's not nothing against classrooms because somebody will take that wrong, nothing against classrooms, but uh real life experience is so incredible.
• 3:29
  Speaker 4: And this memoir, it's really uh it's just a sweeping memoir that takes us from uh Paris to Berlin to Switzerland and beyond, of course.
• 3:40
  Speaker 4: So we're gonna start right there.
• 3:42
  Speaker 4: How does it feel to finally share your story with the world?
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: Um it feels like a weight off my shoulders, like maybe I've been trying to tell the story for so long, never even considering that a book would be the way to do it.
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: Usually it's at dinner parties, and I share anecdotes and I enjoy the reaction.
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: Um, but it really is a way to help people who are unsure of themselves.
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: Um, and I think that starts when you're very young.
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: If you have somebody who accounts you to um be adventurous, you can do a lot of things.
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: You can never give them that opportunity, you um lead a very mundane life.
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: So my the idea of the book was to help somebody, maybe in the 30s or whatever, um, to realize that looking at me, they said, well, that's not very important person, and yet he had the courage to do things that were sometimes unknown, sometimes dangerous, and yet um everything worked out well.
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: So maybe it's worth taking a chance.
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: Um, nothing bent her and nothing gained, I guess.
• 5:05
  Speaker 4: I love that you you though you're I love the lens that you look at this through that it it's not just that you have these great adventures and you want to tell people about it because you just want people to hear about it.
• 5:16
  Speaker 4: It's because you want to help other people be able to do those types of things, whether it's travel or take any kind of chance on themselves, right?
• 5:24
  Speaker 4: I and I think that's such a beautiful gift to offer to the world.
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: So I absolutely can apply it to anything.
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: It doesn't have to be travel, it's just your job or anything.
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: You know, I I spent 35 years of my life in banking, which I really didn't like at all.
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: Uh, but there was nothing to stop me.
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: I would ended up being the senior vice president of Chase Bank in a profession that I hated.
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: So you can imagine what I'd been to travel uh in my 50s as as a professional travel agent.
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: Um, it was so easy because it was like it was a pleasure to just do my job, you know.
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: And they take groups all over the world and to see them.
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: Um uh I remember taking a route to Switzerland once, uh, a walking tour, and I gave them a Swiss pass, uh which was good for a week of travel, and sent them both on their own to try and make connections and do things.
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: And they'd come back and they were so excited about the fact that they got home and they saw everything.
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: And um and that gave me the idea that um not everybody has the initiative to do things.
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: And um many people to look at pictures like me in front of the Taj Mahal, and they think, oh my god, I wish I could have seen that.
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: But there's nothing that stopped them doing it.
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: So um that's what those little theses in the book is saying, these things you've heard about can be yours.
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: And you will have things to tell your grandchildren and spread the word down.
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: So it that I think is just this world that you're opening up and it becomes much bigger than yourself.
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: Absolutely.
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: That's the the key to it, I think.
• 7:27
  Speaker 4: I love that.
• 7:27
  Speaker 4: Did I understand you correctly?
• 7:28
  Speaker 4: I hear you right that you said that in your 50s you you left a high position in a long-standing career to start a completely different profession, really.
• 7:38
  Speaker 4: That that's that in itself, what what a risk and a and a scary thing.
• 7:43
  Speaker 4: That's stepping off a ledge right there in some ways to some people takes a lot of courage.
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: Um that was one occasion where I was a little flummoxed when it happened because when people take over a bank, uh, it's not that you're doing your job badly, it's that people want their own people underneath them.
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: And so they get rid of the top management.
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: Um, but I I actually did, and I'm ashamed to admit this, but I actually did a year of um modeling.
• 8:17
  Speaker 4: You did.
• 8:18
  Speaker 4: That doesn't surprise me at all.
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: So because at 50, I I looked pretty good then, and so um I did that and I realized it was fun, but it wasn't me.
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: And I realized what I really love doing most is taking trips.
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: So I just went into a travel agency in Sun City, Arizona, which is the retirement, famous retirement community, and I said, I think your customers must find it difficult to travel because they're in wheelchairs, that kind of thing.
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: I said, I want to start a program where every month I take these people on a trip to different parts of the world and make it easy for them.
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: And uh I need a desk.
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: I don't want to be at it very often because I actually want to travel myself.
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: And so if you will help me to travel that way, I think I can give you a lot of income.
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: And that lasted for over 15 years.
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: Well, and I did 100 cruises and people took uh 80-year-old people to Antarctica and places beyond their imagination.
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: And that excited me, and it made me, I think I've lived as long as I have, because life every day is interesting.
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: Like today is the most one of the most exciting times of my life.
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: I've torn to a celebrity um about something, and I never ever thought somebody I would ever do that, you know, and yet this is in the beginning.
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: I mean, last week I was in Frankfurt uh selling my book.
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: You know, it's just amazing how your life can turn around.
• 10:02
  Speaker 4: It's so true.
• 10:03
  Speaker 4: And you you are living at 84, your your life is so full and so exciting.
• 10:09
  Speaker 4: And I personally know, and I'm not calling anybody out, but I personally know people, you know, half your age, more than more than half your age, who are just living, you know, mundane lives and and complaining about.
• 10:22
  Speaker 4: And it's so incredible.
• 10:24
  Speaker 4: And I I love that you are giving, have been giving those experiences to people who never in their, like you said, in their wildest dreams, couldn't imagine doing some of these things and going to some of these places.
• 10:36
  Speaker 4: And and I and what a treasure to be the facilitator of something like that.
• 10:43
  Speaker 4: I I can only imagine um the joy that you got out of seeing them experiencing these things for the first time and and getting to see see it through their eyes again.
• 10:54
  Speaker 4: Because for you, of course, you've traveled so much, some of these places are probably no surprise.
• 10:58
  Speaker 4: I'm sure they're no less of a wonder.
• 11:00
  Speaker 4: Um, but to be able to see it through their eyes again is is really just such a treasure, isn't it?
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: I weren't the when I was in travel, the phrase that I hated hearing was been there, done that.
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: And that was something that just got my shackles up.
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: And it was like, um, can I deal with this person?
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: Because they have so that idea of no knowledge of discovery that uh maybe I can't help them.
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: You know, they're just beyond help.
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: I mean, I've been to Switzerland maybe 50 times in my life.
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: In fact, the hotel I go to, I originally started with people who are now the grandparents, and then I dealt with the uh son and daughter.
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: Now I deal with the grandkids who run the hotel, and they've known me since I was 18 years old.
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: And that's like um having friends all over the world.
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: I I think of myself as an not an American necessarily, although I'm very proud of that, but I'm an international citizen.
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: And wherever I go, I realize learning about the uh culture that I'm in and the language.
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: I don't speak much, I speak French, I speak a little bit of German, but I can always um talk to somebody or even a smile.
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: You don't even have to talk to somebody.
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: If you greet somebody with a smile, you get amazing rewards out of it.
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: Such a little thing to give.
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: And uh so, you know, that's the way I live.
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: It's kind of life excites me very much.
• 12:46
  Speaker 4: That's beautiful.
• 12:47
  Speaker 4: It exudes off of you too.
• 12:48
  Speaker 4: You can just see, and I'm sure meeting you in person, people get that energy right away that they can sense that and feel that.
• 12:55
  Speaker 4: And it's inspiring.
• 12:56
  Speaker 4: I'm inspired just just hearing about it.
• 12:59
  Speaker 4: I was inspired, you know, with the book, of course, by someone just talking to you and listening to you talk about these experiences in the way that you are.
• 13:05
  Speaker 4: It, you know, I'm actually pretty reclusive.
• 13:08
  Speaker 4: I don't do a lot of I travel to my grandchildren, like that's my big travel these days.
• 13:12
  Speaker 4: It'll be like that for a while.
• 13:14
  Speaker 4: Um, but you know, I it doesn't look old enough to crack.
• 13:17
  Speaker 4: Thank you.
• 13:19
  Speaker 4: Um, I I tend to turn inward and you know, not necessarily reject those opportunities to connect with people when I'm out in the world.
• 13:30
  Speaker 4: Um, but I don't necessarily seek them out either.
• 13:34
  Speaker 4: And and I'm doing myself a disservice by that.
• 13:36
  Speaker 4: And you're you're such a great reminder of that, of the opportunities there are to connect with people and you know, either be inspired or inspire others.
• 13:44
  Speaker 4: So thank you for for for inspiring me.
• 13:47
  Speaker 4: I appreciate that.
• 13:48
  Speaker 4: Um I so I as I'm thinking about this now, I would imagine obviously that it's one thing to live all of these adventures, but it's got to be another thing entirely to just sit down and relive them all on paper.
• 14:02
  Speaker 4: What has that experience been like?
• 14:05
  Speaker 4: Um, has it been uh good, bad, all of the things?
• 14:09
  Speaker 4: Does it give you that nostalgia?
• 14:11
  Speaker 4: Does it how does it affect you when, or how did it affect you when you were writing all of these stories out?
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: Um it made me feel good that I still have a memory.
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: Um I live with somebody who has Alzheimer's, and that's such a tragic thing.
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: Um, but I actually started the book in May, and um I wrote the first chapter one afternoon.
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: That's the Turkey on the train.
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: Um then I did a uh story about Algeria that was kind of scary for me, and I I thought that it's coming back so easy.
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: So my mind, I think, has been for me categorizing all these stories, putting them to some order, and I actually finished the book uh by the end of June.
• 15:07
  unknown: Wow.
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: And wow.
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and immediately I told um uh expert book publishers, and they work with me to um uh format and create the manuscript, and then um I chose the pictures that I sent, and that was done, and and in uh September I'm ready to go to um Frankfurt.
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: So I I think in a way it hasn't hit me yet because it was so fast.
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like a whirlwind.
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: That it's um almost too easy, but I'm uh always aware that everything can be improved.
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: And I now want to start writing about my life experiences as a memoir of of growing up during the war in England and seeing bombs dropping and uh and then coming to America and leading a different life.
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: And it it's the format is in my head now.
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: I think you may be the same way.
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: When you have a an idea for a book in your mind, you suddenly start storing things that say, I can use that.
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: You know, I don't know if write it down, but I have a enough memory that I can actually recall these things.
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: And um so um, but travel has been one.
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: And the saddest part about it is that I read the other day that in America geography is not a subject that is taught anymore.
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: And I think that is so sad because if that hadn't been the case when I grew up, I wouldn't have got into travel.
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: I mean, it was I loved reading stories about different climates and things.
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: So um I think that's a sad thing.
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: But I hope I can take the place of a geography book uh by writing about it, and it made somebody say geography is sports loyal after all.
• 17:08
  Speaker 4: Oh, absolutely.
• 17:09
  Speaker 4: You know, I was such a slacker as a student when I was a kid that, you know, I and just if I had been taught geography the way that you are essentially teaching geography, uh it would be such a different experience, just such a different uh everything instead of just like this dry, you know, map on a piece of paper.
• 17:27
  Speaker 4: It's it's like it's breathing life into it, which is, you know, I think that's that's what captures uh people's interest.
• 17:34
  Speaker 4: So most definitely.
• 17:36
  Speaker 4: And I have to tell you, I'm still sitting here in awe that you were able to write this book, one in such short order and short in a short period of time.
• 17:45
  Speaker 4: And even more importantly, your recollection, your ability to recall all this.
• 17:50
  Speaker 4: I can't remember what I did five minutes ago.
• 17:53
  Speaker 4: Like, like to be able to remember, you know, things with such clarity and detail and sharpness.
• 17:59
  Speaker 4: And and and you know, the book, the passages in the book are so vivid.
• 18:03
  Speaker 4: You can you can smell the smells and you can see the people in your head, and you can and you can see this, you know, you can see it as as you're reading it.
• 18:12
  Speaker 4: And and that is just, I mean, that's an author right there.
• 18:16
  Speaker 4: That that is an author, that's a writer.
• 18:17
  Speaker 4: And and I love that you said you really weren't even considered yourself a writer before this, correct?
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: No, no, I never thought of it.
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: I mean, I wrote letters to my grandmother, but um that was uh I never actually said and made journals or uh logs or anything like that.
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: Um, but it's funny how uh when I look through the book, there's pictures of other people would probably find interesting.
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: But to me, the one that I love the most is the picture of me on the ground in Switzerland and a cow licking my leg.
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: Oh um, you know that the cows in Switzerland are like beautiful, they have beautiful self-skin, they have bells around their necks, and they they're so majestic.
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: And um to be approached by one was an honor.
• 19:11
  Speaker 4: It was like me, you know.
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: Um and that's the things that I remember about life.
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: I remember the times that people have been kind to me.
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: I remember music when I was in a particular place.
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: Um so all those things help to keep your mind active.
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: And um, you've been very, very lucky in your life.
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: And um so that's why I think I want to make sure everybody has the best life that they can.
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: Um, travel may not be the thing, but reading my book may help them to solve different problems, different relationships, and um and give them the humility because I think that is a very important part of getting on in life.
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: You have to be uh have humility to be open enough to accept help or advice or something from somebody else.
• 20:15
  Speaker 4: That is so so true.
• 20:17
  Speaker 4: And something that's you know greatly lacking in our society right now.
• 20:21
  Speaker 4: And to go back to that mindset um would be so beneficial to the entire world, you know, people had that mindset.
• 20:30
  Speaker 4: And I so agree with you.
• 20:33
  Speaker 4: Um, gratitude and humility, I think, have to be, you know, just one of the first thoughts in your mind every single day.
• 20:41
  Speaker 4: And it does change, it changes how you see the world, it changes how you interact with the world.
• 20:46
  Speaker 4: If you enter everything with that attitude of gratitude and humility and and just you know putting it all in perspective like that, um, it's it's a lot of different things.
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like on the political scene.
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: Um people have different ideas, but there's no reason you can't listen to another person's point of view.
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: These days, people don't they shut themselves out to the other side and nothing gets done because of that, you know, there's no um negotiation, which I think to me is the main part of diplomacy.
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: You've got to uh bargain, you can't have it all your own way.
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: Um, so um, but no, I'm very, very happy person, usually.
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: And I I live with it, you know, I have stage four kidney disease, but I don't let that uh run my life.
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: Um I don't need dialysis yet.
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: Um and my um kidney level has been the same for the past six years.
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: Because I don't let it get to me.
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: I I I make rules that I don't abuse my body, but I don't let it uh govern my life.
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: And if I want a treat that's not on my uh diet, I have it.
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: I just don't have too much of it.
• 22:06
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 22:06
  Speaker 4: That's uh it's such a it should be like the rules for life in general.
• 22:10
  Speaker 4: Whether you have health concerns going on, you know, overt health issues going on or not, it should be the the kind of the rule of life, like everything.
• 22:17
  Speaker 4: It's it's the whole, it goes back to the whole like everything in moderation.
• 22:20
  Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, all of this is don't deny yourself things, you know, but also don't overindulge, you know, this the balance.
• 22:26
  Speaker 4: My husband and I talk about that all the time.
• 22:28
  Speaker 4: Everything in life is about balance.
• 22:30
  Speaker 4: And if you have balance, you are, you know, so right, those are the those are the things.
• 22:34
  Speaker 4: Gratitude, humility, balance, like the recipe for life.
• 22:37
  Speaker 4: I think, I think we just solved all of the world's problems right here in this in this little interview, I think.
• 22:43
  Speaker 4: If everybody would just listen to to us, they will live a very, very happy life.
• 22:48
  Speaker 4: Um you mentioned something uh just a little while ago about I if I heard you correctly, you started traveling at age 16.
• 22:55
  Speaker 4: Is that right?
• 22:56
  unknown: Yes.
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: Well, actually, I did travel in a way, even when I was in my nine and tens.
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: I was in Scotland with my relatives, and um I would want to visit different places, not Edinburgh and only.
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: So we used to go out on the bus and travel to, you know, about a whole day on the bus and come back.
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: And they were always surprised when I walked back through the door.
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: So I think that was the very start of it.
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: I went to Switzerland when I was um 10 years old with a school party just after the war, and going out of London with all the smog and everything, and going to Switzerland and seeing, because Switzerland wasn't damaged during the war, and to see things pristine and green and sunshine.
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: It was like, you know, this was wonderful.
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: I just um when you realize that there's better places than where you live, um, that is an impetus to start traveling.
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: Nowadays I look back at England and say, what a wonderful country that has given a lot of things to other people.
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: Um and I still enjoying, but that doesn't mean I don't want to live there anymore.
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: Because I love the American way of life and um the freedom and the opportunity to live, they say, the American dream.
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: But the American dream is doesn't mean a lot of money to me.
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: It means um freedom to do what you want to do.
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: And as long as you don't hurt anybody, I think everybody has that right.
• 24:36
  Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely.
• 24:38
  Speaker 4: And you know, when you talk about freedom, it actually takes me back to a part in your book where uh you talk about Berlin during the Cold War.
• 24:45
  Speaker 4: And first of all, it reads like a movie scene.
• 24:48
  Speaker 4: It's it's just so epic.
• 24:49
  Speaker 4: I have to say it's just so epic.
• 24:52
  Speaker 4: And you wrote something that that really did stop me for a moment.
• 24:56
  Speaker 4: You said standing there with one foot in freedom and one foot in fear, you could feel history holding its breath.
• 25:01
  Speaker 4: And that's such a powerful line.
• 25:04
  Speaker 4: Um, to be right there in that moment, living in that moment, you know, watching these two two divided worlds and they're, you know, not just by concrete, but by ideology and by hope.
• 25:17
  Speaker 4: And, you know, what a what a wild juxtaposition, in a way, that is too amazing.
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, to have a city that was torn.
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: I know countries you understand are different, you know, you have a border.
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: But there was a bastion of Western culture within the communist world, and it was living, you know, looking at West Berlin at the time, it was just like any other Western city.
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: But when you got out of the wall, the wall divided you, and the other side was something entirely different.
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: Uh, I remember when I went through the wall and uh went up the tower, there was a tower, I think it was a radio tower, but it had a top, a revolving uh bulb on the top.
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: And one of the wonderful things I remember hearing about it was that when the sun shone it, shone on it uh in Ist Berlin at the right time, it made a cross.
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: And I thought that was such a wonderful symbol of religion or freedom.
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: And when you went up that tower, it was like at the um, you know, the uh Empire State Building.
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: But you go around and the on the uh western side, there was blank.
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: I mean, when you're looking at the eastern side, they pointed out the churches and everything.
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: And then when you went to their side, it's just a white sheet.
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: And I thought, did they really think that there's nothing behind that?
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: You know, there was something almost uh bizarre about it to say that you can't you can't block out the rest of the world.
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: It's gonna be there.
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: You just have to learn learn to accommodate that.
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: But there's so many things in travel that gave me that feeling of um uh uh that I was very lucky and that that I had so much to learn.
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: Uh from when I was 16 up to when I was 80, I still was learning things on a trip.
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: And I've I've gone to some pretty rough places, but I've never been to a place I haven't enjoyed.
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: I've made something about it that this is not in the book, but uh the last one of the last trips I took was to Albania, which to me sounded so foreign and communist.
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: And um there wasn't really nothing there to see.
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: I I went to this park, and uh well, I was thinking, you know, I must see something that's gonna excite me.
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: So there was a little river, and across the other side of the river was a line of two children standing there on a road, and um suddenly they began getting closer, and I couldn't understand what it was.
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: Well, the road was the ferry, so the piece of the road was roached, took it across to our side of the river, and then it joined the road here.
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: And I've never ever seen a piece of a road used as a ferry boat.
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: And I think that was absolutely exciting.
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: So that made my trip to Walbania worthwhile.
• 28:42
  Speaker 4: Wow, absolutely.
• 28:43
  Speaker 4: That's yeah, I mean the sites that you've seen are just it's so hard for mu most of us, people like me, who haven't done extensive traveling to even imagine.
• 28:52
  Speaker 4: But you know, it's seeing seeing a picture is is one thing, but to experience all these different sites and and things that are so foreign to what you know um is just an unmatchable experience, I would imagine.
• 29:05
  Speaker 4: Um, you you said uh a few minutes ago, I want to touch back on this if you don't mind.
• 29:10
  Speaker 4: Um you said and I I could be paraphrasing a little bit, but you said something to the effect of, I used to think I was lucky, I now I sus suspect I was being looked after, um, which again struck me.
• 29:21
  Speaker 4: There's uh I feel like, and please correct me if I'm wrong, I feel like there's a quiet undercurrent of spirituality and and meaning woven throughout the entire book.
• 29:31
  Speaker 4: And I don't think it's like it's not preachy at all, but it's deeply human.
• 29:36
  Speaker 4: And would you say that travel kind of deepened your your faith and whatever that means for you and and also of course your sense of purpose, right?
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: Um, for example, when go to Switzerland, and I think it's in the book.
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: Um I never really thought about much about proving that there's uh uh
• 30:00
  Speaker 4: uh and um you know have any body or whatever but the the scenery is so beautiful that I can't believe that it happened by accident and so that's for me I've everybody's personal things but that's what may makes me think that there's uh something out there but it personally I believe the greatest thing is knowing the difference between evil and good and if you do good things uh wherever you look at things whether whatever you look after whether it's Buddha or Jesus or anything um that should be the thing that governs you and but I do have that feeling because of the beauty of some parts of the world that they couldn't have happened by heads oh yeah yeah I yeah I I feel the same way you know in such a simple sense of it you know I'm I'm 54 years old and I still if there's a a full moon or a beautiful sunset or a gorgeous tree I still have to point or or an adorable cow by the way because I love cows I I still have to like exclaim like a child you know oh look at the sun oh look at the moon look at that tree look at how green the grass is and it's just I I there is something about uh nature and just its absolutely delicate beauty but also like the incredible strength for these elements to exist can in continuity like that is just it's awe-striking I think so yeah I I have to agree with you on that fully yeah because uh they don't you know uh what about and there's people who try to seduce you you know and and that's a human thing but uh a a a scenery or a flower I think it won't do anything at all to entice you so that's very very pure that kind of beauty and I think that's why I get turned on my scenery sometimes.
• 32:01
  Speaker 4: Yeah oh it's so wonderful it really is it makes me want to it makes me want to go outside right can we take this interview outside it's actually a little chilly here.
• 32:09
  Speaker 4: I don't it's chilly here I am I'm not going outside right now um you mentioned Switzerland um so some of the most vivid writing in the book comes from your time there how did those experiences shape your outlook on people in general I'll do it because I think the fact there's something in Switzerland about walking um doing something off your own scheme.
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: And I started my life in Switzerland by hiking in the hills and doing that.
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: And when you walk along the roads the paths oh the other thing that's wonderful about Switzerland is that um the signposts saying to go to somewhere down a path have it in time so it doesn't say how many miles it is it tells you how long it takes you to get there.
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: Oh I love that oh I love that so much more really interesting to me and the people who walk um I used to uh travel with my cousin who has died but he was uh you know did everything I said and as you walked along it's uh customary for people to greet one another those who pass on the paths and we used to look at the distance and see the person coming towards you and say oh I think they're French so we'd say bonjour and of course they say goodn time you know it's a oh you know so we got that we're wrong but that's what we did each day was to guess that's so fun uh the nationalities the people come towards us and but that other thing is about Switzerland about discovery is where when you're down at the bottom of a valley and this is true in the place I go to as the funicular climbs up suddenly the mountains become visible.
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: You can suddenly see these white mountains and they're exposed inch by inch until have all these mountains around you and I love that unveiling as I call it uh also when it's a bad day in Switzerland all you see is clouds but you know that one time suddenly the cloud is gonna go and the mountains are back and it's there's so much to that's why I can spend a week in Switzerland just doing nothing just um just enjoying yeah what you're soaking it all in right um is that your is that your favorite place to go it sounds like it'd be your favorite is it your favorite do you have a favorite overall although there are other places that I like like a beach in somewhere or um like in Tokyo I enjoy the uh the way that people live because to me it's very much like England there's lots of people on a small island tea is the main thing in their life and they're very polite.
• 35:16
  Speaker 4: I love that you know so every place that you've talked about including I think what was the last one Albania I think you said where and you started off by saying you know there wasn't much to see there but you find something beautiful or joyful or appealing about every single place you go and I suspect that you would be able to do that in the most unappealing place ever.
• 35:37
  Speaker 4: You would probably be someone who could say yeah but this here is you know you would find something good and that that is such an absolutely charming quality.
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: So that's like my my time in Alteria which if you read that chapter was kind of scary.
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: But what came out of it at the end was that I had these two people who were looked like Yaster Arafat in a taxi that was not legal and they were with me for over eight hours one day trying to find a place for me to stay and then they left me with this place which was horrible not their fault it was the only place we could find and yet I at four o'clock in the morning I had to get up and they promised to come and pick me up and they had no money left because I'd given the all my money away by this time and um at four o'clock I could see the dust of the car coming down the hillside to get me.
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: And that is my memory of the trip the people that had nothing they were kind you know there was something about it.
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: Other people would say oh I can't trust them um you know I have to leave I have to do something but they proved to me that in any culture regardless of the situation somebody help you.
• 37:09
  Speaker 4: That's so true.
• 37:10
  Speaker 4: You know I I come from a part of of the United States that isn't quite as friendly to people in general not a lot of waving to each other you know and and more of if somebody waves to you your your first thought is what do they want?
• 37:26
  Speaker 4: You know what what are they up to?
• 37:27
  Speaker 4: And so anytime I go to say like the southern states it it's you know it's so different.
• 37:33
  Speaker 4: It's such a different experience and and I I think when we live a small life and I put myself in the category of living a small life when we live a small life we do tend to forget or simply not realize that there's so much more good and goodness out there in in people in humanity than we realize because we're you know we're trapped behind uh computer screens and phones and televisions and news and all of these things that you know constantly show you the the negative parts of humanity and you know they all say like if you if you you know want to calm yourself down put your phone down turn the TV off go outside and talk to people meet people in the real world and and it will change you know it will write your perspective pretty quickly.
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: So it's a it's such a good reminder you know all of the things that you're you're saying about your encounters about people from different parts of the world that um you know we just generally got it in that when in England when American when I was in my teens Americans would come over and of course they had a bad reputation during the war but um I could go to restaurants and Americans would come in and I hear them talking about the fact that they didn't get a glass of water with their meal.
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: And what they didn't realize was that we didn't have any water at those times.
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah all right it was very you know there wasn't plastic bottles like there are today.
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: And so I really resented that and it took a while for me to say okay I guess they have expectations for home but they are in a foreign country and they should cool it for a while.
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah we do we do we do as Americans have very bad yeah social etiquette when we visit other countries we need to do much we need to do much much better than than what we do I'd like to believe that we do now but I don't think that we do it just a little so it's like it's again it's that small life perspective that you know and it's it's um it's a terrible mindset to to be I think kind of we've gone from a me to to a me generation and oh that is um you know very uh upsetting and why I making my business as a an ambassador for Americans want to travel now to try and um write it a little bit and say hey we're not all bad you know so um um but thank you for paving the way for us a little bit for toning it down before everybody gets so mad at us right rightfully so but yeah it's so true and um I want to talk about so you you you talk about some mishaps that in your book that actually had me chuckling out loud um and you tell them with again that word that we talked about before with such humility and humor um I I would imagine I think I know the answer this by why you'd answer it anyway.
• 40:42
  Speaker 4: Do you think that humor um and laughter is part of your and really anyone's resiliency yes I think um I recently came across a a song by Bat Medler that's not very well known but it's all about uh laughter and ends up be saying laughing matters and I really believe that if you can't have a chuckle or laugh within a day uh depression is not far behind.
• 41:20
  Speaker 4: So um I like to and of course I get in bad moods I everybody does but I'll always cognizant of the fact that I'm in that state and I try to pick up something that's going to make me laugh or watch something that's funny because that is the most I I think laughter makes you live long because you if you can see the humor in life then you enjoy being around as long as you can listen as somebody who has comedy as her default setting I I completely relate to that.
• 41:59
  Speaker 4: I yes oh that is so true and I agree and listen my my laugh lines agree with you as well because I laugh way more than than I frown.
• 42:08
  Speaker 4: So thankfully I'm so that's so grateful for that.
• 42:11
  Speaker 4: But yeah I I clearly I completely agree with you.
• 42:15
  Speaker 4: Let's see what else I want to ask you oh you also share some more introspective moments uh times of loneliness and of searching did revisiting those memories uh bring any sense if you needed it uh closure or did it open new reflections for you uh coming from it from a different place and point in life um one of the most um moving things I saw was when I went to Auschwitz in Poland and to see the what's left I mean it's um and I don't know whether it's I I I have mixed feelings there you go through a shed which has and bunks and ovens and and then these pile of suitcases and shoes and glasses and um I had to deal with that and it was like I I turned it around to say thank God this saved them because if they didn't people might start believing that it never happened.
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: And so um that helped me with that and then the other part was to say when I can come back I can spread the message too this must never happen again.
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: And I'm not Jewish but I do that doesn't make any difference it's anybody who's persecuted has to have champions um uh you know it's just the only way you can have hatred winning.
• 43:50
  Speaker 4: Yeah yeah and that's um you know part of one of the biggest problems that we have now that people want to erase history and pretend that things didn't happen because it's ugly and because it's uncomfortable and all those things and you're so so right you know if those and and what a what an amazing way to turn something that's so gut-wrenching and so so hard on your heart to even see because we do tend to want to turn away from things that are ugly and painful and and hurt uh to even look at to think about um but to to look at that to see the suitcases and the shoes and the clothing and all of these things and and to stop yourself from turning away and finding what you could make good from something so bad, so terrible.
• 44:35
  Speaker 4: Again, I used the word in the beginning with you and and I have to say it again it's such a treasure to have someone like you you specifically um going out and doing these things and sharing the what you've seen and what you've learned and what you know from that.
• 44:52
  Speaker 4: Just again again again what a treasure to have and to share with the world it's just uh it blows my mind it's amazing to me.
• 45:01
  Speaker 2: The one thing uh I I don't know if I write the chapter about France which I love but um this family who um older couple who kind of adopted me once and um when I asked them one day uh why me you know why did you pick on me to be nice to and they said um because you're about the same age that their son would have been he died during the war and when we're with you we think we have him back for a while oh my heart oh and that was such a responsibility to me um you know because it was like um they were so raw in their feelings about it that um I ended up for 10 years always visiting them when I went to Paris because I knew they were going to be part of the family.
• 46:02
  Speaker 4: Wow wow that's just incredible I want to I I know we've kind of touched on this in in parts here and there but the the writing process itself and and that for you it came very easily and very quickly um but there are parts typically authors find difficult in their and it's different for everybody I think some people hate the editing some people hate you know different or I hate the strong word a dislike certain parts of it um was there any part of your writing process that you found either uh you know tedious or just unenjoyable or just unpleasant or was it just a great I have a feeling with you I feel like it was a great experience all around I was excited all along and mainly because after uh uh wrote it and I sent it off without even I didn't even I I just sent it all I thought that's their job they did um but um I then got the proof and I read through it and what was exciting to me was that it lived again for me it was like having the trips all over again and it was a wonderful feeling because I never thought that there was that was why I wrote a book right even more to uh for other people but I got a lot out of it and um I don't know whether it could improve uh I don't know in my way of thinking it's like if it's a memoir it should be the first thing you you know your words and you don't try to tart it off as something else so I was quite happy with what I read and that was an extra bonus that I didn't consider.
• 47:42
  Speaker 4: That's wonderful absolutely wonderful yeah I have to admit there's um very little about the writing process that I don't love.
• 47:51
  Speaker 4: I do love I've come to love all different parts of it I was always impatient about the self-editing part you know because you you get in that well I already know the story because I wrote it I know the story but you know so I would get a little and then I just had to do that little mind shift of like no this is really exciting you get to read this from you know take yourself out of it essentially and read it from a different perspective which is what you got to do with your book reading it you know after they had done their stuff it's it's and especially if you get a little time away from it which is you know a couple few months probably right or weeks or whatever the case was and then when it comes back to you you're like oh I I wrote this I wrote this I wrote this it's a it's a wild feeling how did it feel holding your book in your hands for the first time oh that was incredible um I have it here actually on the side of me um it it because it was the hardcover which was very impressive in a paperback.
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: So the first time I saw it on um Amazon it was like um oh my god and then actually my sister in England got a copy before I did because the distribution in England was better.
• 49:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah and she was actually the first person to see I mean it knew the cover because that I designed with them but um to actually see a hard copy and realize that um I thought about libraries all over the world and I thought about oh my God you know one day this will be in a library if I'm lucky um but um anyway it you know even if my books are zero copies um I was still in the most wonderful experience and talking as you and uh making an old person feel young again.
• 49:41
  Speaker 4: I think you are I think mentally you are younger than me sir I think you definitely are I think you have more energy uh in in one hour than I have in an entire day I think you are so inspiring to just live life fully it's it's just a such a joy to sit and talk with you.
• 49:58
  Speaker 2: It's it really sweet of you thank you very much.
• 50:01
  Speaker 4: Oh you're so welcome I do have one more question for you before I ask like the final final question.
• 50:06
  Speaker 4: If you could revisit one moment in this book and not necessarily to change it but to relive it what would it be I'd like to go back to the cow and see if he'll still lick me oh oh I love it.
• 50:23
  Speaker 4: That was a perfect answer.
• 50:24
  Speaker 4: There's the most perfect answer that could ever be that would be my answer.
• 50:29
  Speaker 4: Anything to do with the animals that would be my answer.
• 50:31
  Speaker 4: That's beautiful I love that um okay now for the the truly last question.
• 50:36
  Speaker 4: Where can everybody find your books and find out more about you if there's a website uh I think you mentioned Amazon.
• 50:43
  Speaker 2: The Amazon sells the book uh actually I found that there are several books with this title okay uh for different subject matter nothing to do with um mainly to do with uh getting through a you know difficult period but um mine is more humor based I believe um so Amazon and uh Barnes and Noble has it in fact I'm doing a book signing in um Barnes and Noble next week I think um but um I think um there is a website called Trevor JamesWilson.com and that has pictures of my um trip to um uh Frankfurt to the book fair and also probably something from this talk with you will end up on Maritona yes indeed there will be I hope so at least yes I love that that'd be so amazing I cannot thank you enough for coming on and sharing your stories and your heart and and just your humor and your exuberance for life and all of your adventures and uh just uh thank you so much for coming on today.
• 51:54
  Speaker 4: I appreciate it.
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: It was a pleasure and I can tell you one thing that you put me such a at such ease that it's very easy to have a good time.
• 52:06
  Speaker 4: Oh I'm so glad so good I'm so glad no you could I could have just sat back and said nothing and let you run this entire thing and you would have done phenomenal because you're just a joy to listen to so thank you.
• 52:18
  Speaker 4: And by the way can I just say um I feel if you haven't thought about it already I feel like you should narrate your own book because you have such a pleasing voice to listen to I just throwing it out there just you know putting more on your plate to do.
• 52:34
  Speaker 2: It has been discussed and it was they told me about uh uh hiring people and they would come up with male and female and I thought that just didn't make any sense you know I couldn't write this story uh or read this story because it's my story um but yes I'm planning on doing myself oh good when I get hold of a microphone and something that makes it work I'm very bad at the mechanics so if somebody can send me a microphone and a recording device I will go through it all myself.
• 53:07
  Speaker 4: Awesome oh I love it good that will make my heart so happy I'm gonna put that in my my my like watch list or or wish list in there or I'll have you text me or email me when it's um when it's available in audio book too because I want both thank you so much oh thank you wonderful and so fun I did too thank you all right my friends thank you all for joining us for this special interview the links will be in the show notes you'll be able to get the book all of those good things and we will see you in the next episode.
• 53:38
  Speaker: Take care bye bye you've just met Trevor James Wilson author of Where Have I Been All My Life?
• 53:44
  Speaker: You can find his book on Amazon, Barnes and Noble and most major online retailers.
• 53:49
  Speaker: To learn more visit trevorjameswilson.com thanks for watching the Else Kurt Interviews spectacle