Latest / The Reformatory / Ecclesiastical Rehab

Transcript

Ecclesiastical Rehab · The Reformatory

• 0:00
  [SPEAKER_06]: What do you got for me?
• 0:02
  [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do
• 0:32
  [SPEAKER_06]: As long as I'm not for me, we could have had the benediction right there, that was so good.
• 0:36
  [SPEAKER_03]: What's going on, everyone, and welcome to the Reformed Tour.
• 0:39
  [SPEAKER_03]: The podcast for the Local Church, and by the Local Church, and we are your local churchman.
• 0:43
  [SPEAKER_03]: My name is Josh, and I'm here as always with the Captain Jack Barry Jack.
• 0:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: Sir, you look like you are podcasting a story to it.
• 0:56
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm in my office.
• 0:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, changing out some of my sons toys.
• 1:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, he is actually doing a one day a week.
• 1:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: So that's the word.
• 1:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's like a co-op, like a pre-k co-op kind of.
• 1:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so there's some book stuff and a whole bunch of other stuff that my wife needs.
• 1:23
  [SPEAKER_02]: we're actually trying to make part of the upstairs area.
• 1:26
  [SPEAKER_02]: His room is well too.
• 1:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: So that's why I have boxes everywhere because we're trying to make it dark and
• 1:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: Make sense.
• 1:34
  [SPEAKER_03]: Someone hospitable for him to be up here.
• 1:36
  [SPEAKER_03]: So yeah, anyway, sorry.
• 1:38
  [SPEAKER_02]: Here it goes.
• 1:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: It looks like I'm doomsday prepping or something like that.
• 1:42
  [SPEAKER_03]: No, no, it's fine.
• 1:44
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's, yeah, yeah, it's definitely nothing bad.
• 1:46
  [SPEAKER_03]: Just, you know, like it's, it's an, I am wearing a brown tap.
• 1:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: I feel like I feel like someone's doomsday prepping.
• 1:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: That's true.
• 1:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: That's true.
• 1:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: I just want to make sure no one's put in, put in baby in the corner.
• 1:57
  [SPEAKER_03]: That's what I want to make sure.
• 1:59
  [SPEAKER_03]: All right, nobody puts, well, nobody puts my jacket in the corner.
• 2:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: Jack dude, we got a lot of talk about today, man.
• 2:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: First and foremost, I mean, I don't know, yeah, let's just, let's start working through the things, okay.
• 2:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: We've got our, we've got our, we've got our, our saucy merch, man.
• 2:17
  [SPEAKER_03]: Reformation month is coming up.
• 2:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: The Pactum Conference is coming up.
• 2:21
  [SPEAKER_03]: You need to make sure that you're wearing your best for both.
• 2:24
  [SPEAKER_03]: If you're not wearing your best for both, I don't even know what you're doing.
• 2:27
  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
• 2:27
  [SPEAKER_03]: We've got the reject the papacy line that is on Amazon right now.
• 2:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: Link in the description of this episode.
• 2:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: Fantastic.
• 2:34
  [SPEAKER_03]: If you want to join the historic, the historical precedence that reformed Baptists have set of rejecting the papacy.
• 2:44
  [SPEAKER_03]: And Presbyterians, too.
• 2:45
  [SPEAKER_03]: This isn't strictly Baptist, okay, but you know what is strictly Baptist Is the 1517.
• 2:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: That's not true.
• 2:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: That's not true.
• 2:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: That's not true.
• 2:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's not true.
• 2:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's not true.
• 2:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's not true.
• 2:56
  [SPEAKER_02]: I tried.
• 2:57
  [SPEAKER_03]: I tried.
• 2:57
  [SPEAKER_03]: I did my best.
• 2:58
  [SPEAKER_03]: But this one a more classic Take if you will on Reformation where But both both lines on Amazon right now
• 3:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: Fantastic merch.
• 3:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: You got to get yours.
• 3:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: Get ready for Reformation Month.
• 3:13
  [SPEAKER_03]: Get ready for the Pactum Conference because that is coming up.
• 3:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: Dress in style for both.
• 3:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: We need to make a London standard shirt.
• 3:21
  [SPEAKER_02]: You know what I mean?
• 3:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: First and second London Baptist Confession and London stands.
• 3:26
  [SPEAKER_02]: And the...
• 3:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know what am I thinking the cat is it is it the catacus and it's something just teaches Baptist gotta maybe that but something else was made in London as well too My brain is interesting.
• 3:42
  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, then so yes, we need to we need to okay We need to make a shirt like that as well too might might have to back into this roots Yeah, might have to might have to venture into that for sure for sure
• 3:55
  [SPEAKER_03]: uh... jack we got packed in conference coming up you and i are recording this uh... we're about a week at we're about a week and a half out uh... it's going to be a lot of fun uh... and uh... you know you're going to be out there hopefully uh... amongst fellow listeners reformatory listeners we know we're going to be surrounded by packed em listeners i know there's at least two people that are reformatory listeners that interact with on ex that are that are also browns fans that are like
• 4:21
  [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe we'll just co-missory together.
• 4:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: We're going to have to get you guys to run a little corner.
• 4:26
  [SPEAKER_02]: We want on Sunday.
• 4:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: Wait, let's talk about this a little bit further.
• 4:29
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
• 4:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: No, we're going to have to get you.
• 4:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: You guys are going to have to do some trauma bonding.
• 4:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: I think that's definitely going to happen.
• 4:35
  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, wait.
• 4:35
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
• 4:36
  [SPEAKER_03]: Garza will help with that.
• 4:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, but definitely definitely going to have to make that happen.
• 4:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: We're looking forward to being out at the Pactum.
• 4:42
  [SPEAKER_03]: I love those guys over there doing great work for the local church.
• 4:45
  [SPEAKER_03]: uh... listenership very can very like-minded listeners uh... to our own uh... perhaps you know uh... you know we might we might find some we might find some people that are just as as pat puts it edgy as a reformatourage we're very edgy
• 5:03
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that's us man.
• 5:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: That's us.
• 5:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: That's the vibe.
• 5:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's going to be a lot of fun.
• 5:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: Run.
• 5:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: Don't walk to the Pactum Conference on 2026 in Omaha, Nebraska.
• 5:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: First week of October.
• 5:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's going to be a lot of fun.
• 5:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: Looking forward to that.
• 5:17
  [SPEAKER_03]: All right, Jack.
• 5:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: We got stuff to get to man.
• 5:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: It is time for everyone's favorite segment.
• 5:22
  [SPEAKER_03]: Don't forget to eat your instant grams.
• 5:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: And know the tiny Roman metaphor.
• 5:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: A Roman-dory broadcast presents Don't forget to eat your instant grams.
• 5:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: With your host, Josh Loftus and Jack Mary.
• 5:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: And remember kids, it's not heresy if you'll believe it hard enough.
• 5:41
  [SPEAKER_03]: this is don't forget to eat your instagram's remember kids it's not here see if you believe it hard enough that is how it works these days jack i've got i've got four of these videos lined up right now i don't even know which one to pick for you um do you want okay i've got two of them pull it in the chamber and spin it baby yeah i've got i've got i will let you know what you know what we're going to do we're going to we're going to let we're going to let jack decide
• 6:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: I've got two videos that pertain specifically to the PNW and I've got two videos that pertains specifically to theological wackledoodleness that is happening in America right now.
• 6:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: Give me a whack of doodleness.
• 6:27
  [SPEAKER_03]: You want the Wackel doodle?
• 6:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: You want it for 200, Alex.
• 6:30
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 6:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: Wackel doodle for 200.
• 6:32
  [SPEAKER_03]: OK, I'm going to give you the Wackel doodle for the first one.
• 6:34
  [SPEAKER_03]: Here you go.
• 6:35
  [SPEAKER_03]: Jack, I'm just going to say this.
• 6:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: The dispeas are out of the game.
• 6:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: The dispeas are out of the game.
• 6:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: We're sounding the alarm.
• 6:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: Pastors and ministry leaders.
• 6:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's time to teach the Israel peace.
• 6:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's time to embrace the one new man and birth the fullness of the Gentiles.
• 6:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: New York State.
• 6:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: Sound the alarm.
• 7:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: either the guy behind the camera is the biggest mouth breather in the world or someone is just blowing through that show for not knowing at all how to play list listen to this worth the foolish to the gentiles
• 7:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: What does that mean by the way, the both birth, the fullness of the Gentiles?
• 7:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.
• 7:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: What are we birthing?
• 7:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.
• 7:32
  [SPEAKER_03]: I didn't.
• 7:34
  [SPEAKER_03]: No.
• 7:34
  [SPEAKER_03]: Are we not at our final form?
• 7:36
  [SPEAKER_03]: I feel like this is, like, okay, mom, got to catch him all or like, you've all thing.
• 7:41
  [SPEAKER_03]: I didn't know that.
• 7:41
  [SPEAKER_03]: You're safe.
• 7:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: Sound the arm.
• 7:44
  [SPEAKER_03]: Of course, it's New York, dude.
• 7:45
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's, it's, it's, it's the white, which, this piece is what it is.
• 7:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: Hey, man.
• 7:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: Joseph Smith came from there.
• 7:50
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's, it's always happening in New York state, dude.
• 7:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: Dude, I hear it, too.
• 8:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: It sounds like he's breathing through a straw.
• 8:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: It does!
• 8:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: Dude!
• 8:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, he on a CPAP, what's going on here?
• 8:02
  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, this video goes off for another like 20 seconds of this.
• 8:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: So we're gonna, we're gonna, we're gonna, we're gonna, we're gonna, we're gonna, we're gonna, we're gonna, we're gonna, we're gonna, we're gonna, we're gonna, we're gonna, we're gonna, we're gonna, we're gonna, we're gonna, we're gonna, we're gonna, we're gonna, we're gonna, we're gonna, we're gonna, we're gonna, we're gonna, we're gonna, we're gonna, we're gonna, we're gonna, we're gonna, we're gonna, we're gonna, we're gonna, we're gonna, we're gonna, we're gonna, we're gonna, we're gonna, we're gonna, we're gonna, we
• 8:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe I should have picked the PNW.
• 8:26
  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.
• 8:26
  [SPEAKER_02]: We'll see.
• 8:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: Let me give you the other one.
• 8:29
  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
• 8:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: All right.
• 8:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: Here we go.
• 8:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: Here we go.
• 8:32
  [SPEAKER_03]: Here we go.
• 8:33
  [SPEAKER_04]: One of the glory powers of the glow of the divine glow is you can catch bullets with your teeth.
• 8:38
  [SPEAKER_04]: I'm not lying.
• 8:39
  [SPEAKER_04]: I'm not lying to you.
• 8:41
  [SPEAKER_04]: Now, please don't go try this.
• 8:46
  [SPEAKER_04]: Until you have the real thing.
• 8:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's unbelievable.
• 8:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's him saying some outrageous things from the pulpit and then it just pops up.
• 8:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: It pops up this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this,
• 9:21
  [SPEAKER_03]: But he can touch key can catch a bullet with his key catch bullets with teeth because he's got that He's got that divine glow To what the divine that love what does that even mean never mind what it means I don't know I don't know I don't know if I want to know
• 9:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yep.
• 9:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: Now, Jack, my friend, uh, that was the Instagram's always fun, uh, as, as always.
• 9:43
  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, I don't know how I'm going to do, you know what, I just realized when we do our live app in Nebraska, we're not really going to be able to do instant grams.
• 9:50
  [SPEAKER_03]: So I've got no will do something.
• 9:51
  [SPEAKER_02]: I got, we really, really play them.
• 9:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: We can do Instagram.
• 9:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: We can do instant grams on the street.
• 9:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, have people throw up crazy.
• 10:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: And just do reformatory actions right there.
• 10:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: We could do that too.
• 10:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, it would be fun.
• 10:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: We should see if we can get pat.
• 10:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: He's, I mean, he's going to be slammed.
• 10:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: But yeah, I want to know the story behind.
• 10:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: So I meant to ask him when he was on the app.
• 10:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: I want to know the story behind his, his profile pick on Twitter.
• 10:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: Him getting into hosting's face.
• 10:21
  [SPEAKER_03]: I want to know what's going on there because I'm sure I'm sure that's a good story.
• 10:26
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm sure it's got a story.
• 10:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's got it.
• 10:28
  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, Jack, we are going to talk about ecclesiastical triage today.
• 10:36
  [SPEAKER_03]: Now, Nine Marks put out an article.
• 10:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: It was in 2023 by Michael Lawrence titled in ecclesiastical triage.
• 10:45
  [SPEAKER_03]: Good article.
• 10:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: Michael Lawrence, fellow PNW pastor.
• 10:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: Fellow PNW pastor.
• 10:50
  [SPEAKER_02]: So.
• 10:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: But what we're going to talk about today is how we, those who care for folks in the local church and just how we as a local church in general, the membership, can care for those that are going through their own personal, ecclesiastical triage as they come through the doors of our church, right?
• 11:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: Something that often happens is
• 11:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, as we, as we see in every week in our instant grams, the the modern day church leaves much to be desired when it comes to, I mean, pretty much all things, right, fear to foundation theology community.
• 11:34
  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, it's, it's, it's a wild west out there.
• 11:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: Disciples ship is the wild west out there, right?
• 11:39
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
• 11:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: So what you're going to find happening and, you know, we have experienced this in our local church, I'm sure other churches have experienced this as well, is you have individuals who are coming out of those denominations out of those movements out of those networks.
• 11:57
  [SPEAKER_03]: because of all the crazy stuff that's going on and they're looking for a place to land.
• 12:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: They're looking for a place where that insanity is not happening.
• 12:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: They want someone to open the Bible and they want to teach from the Bible, right?
• 12:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: Which again, you know, fantastic, praise the Lord for that.
• 12:17
  [SPEAKER_03]: What I have found, and this is happening a lot with young people.
• 12:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh yeah.
• 12:22
  [SPEAKER_03]: Young generation, this is happening a lot with them is they are seeing the superficiality of the modern day church.
• 12:32
  [SPEAKER_03]: right and they don't like it.
• 12:36
  [SPEAKER_03]: They want something that has more substance.
• 12:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: They want something that has some history.
• 12:39
  [SPEAKER_03]: They want something that has has some roots to it that they can actually sink their teeth into, right?
• 12:47
  [SPEAKER_03]: Because I think they're seeing this world has what it has to offer and a lot of churches just repackage what the world has to offer and try to call it Christianity.
• 12:58
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
• 12:59
  [SPEAKER_03]: And it doesn't work.
• 13:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 13:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: Unfortunately, unfortunately, too, they're drifting more towards Roman Catholicism or Eastern Orthodox.
• 13:05
  [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
• 13:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: They're really going.
• 13:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: They're really hidden for, you know, 1,000 right there.
• 13:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, they really are.
• 13:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
• 13:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 13:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: But there's a little bit better balance that we can do as well, too, in light of the Reformation.
• 13:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
• 13:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: Absolutely.
• 13:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: Absolutely.
• 13:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, and the reason the reason things like Roman Catholicism what's the other one?
• 13:28
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's not them, but it's still the orthodoxy supposedly Christian.
• 13:32
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
• 13:32
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
• 13:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like Eastern Orthodox Anglicanism.
• 13:36
  [SPEAKER_03]: That's what I could bring when we're right.
• 13:39
  [SPEAKER_03]: Those are on the rise right now with young people.
• 13:41
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I think a large part of that is because they're seeing, like I said, the superficiality that's going on in modern day.
• 13:47
  [SPEAKER_03]: non-denominational churches, things like that and they want something deeper, right?
• 13:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I think that there's a huge potential here for solid biblical gospel centered reform churches to bridge that gap, right?
• 14:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: You don't have to swim all the way across the
• 14:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: in America that can and do offer that, right?
• 14:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: But what that means then is that you have individuals coming into the doors of your church.
• 14:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: that know they want to church that preaches the Bible, they don't want to church that has that that is, you know, primarily focused on, you know, reaching reaching the world, but but equipping the saints, they want to church that has some sort of structure to their service.
• 14:46
  [SPEAKER_03]: I hear that a lot from young folks, how they appreciate liturgy, whether they as their first experience with it or not.
• 14:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: So you have these young folks and older folks, just these folks, come into your church that want this kind of stuff.
• 15:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: But are not prepared to deal with the theological implications that often come with it.
• 15:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: Right?
• 15:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: There's a reason that we are liturgical in our local churches.
• 15:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: There's a reason that we have a high view of scripture that we do.
• 15:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: Right?
• 15:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: You can't have a high view of Scripture and a high view of theological study without coming to reform convictions.
• 15:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't think you can.
• 15:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: And even my extremely difficult.
• 15:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and even an even a high view of how the church is structured.
• 15:38
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, because I'm seeing a lot of people who are coming from very low church evangelicalism.
• 15:45
  [SPEAKER_02]: And they're like, oh, I thought Deakin's and elders were the same, I'm like, oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no
• 16:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: Deacon does not mean pastor pastor does not mean Deacon right they are not across over to be quite honest They're specifics to that in the language that make the office of elder pastor unique to the office of Deacon so
• 16:21
  [SPEAKER_02]: there's stuff like that too to where absolutely should there be one pastor and then five decans and the decans basically function as the elder board.
• 16:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: No, no, the new testament does not recommend that.
• 16:34
  [SPEAKER_03]: So yeah, so yeah, so you have these individuals coming in with a lot like they know what they don't want and they have an idea of what they do want.
• 16:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 16:47
  [SPEAKER_03]: But now you have these individuals that are very different from you theologically, they know they want to be here because they, you know, all the things that we've already talked about.
• 16:59
  [SPEAKER_03]: but it's hard for them to get on board with the brand new theology that often comes with that structure that they're looking for.
• 17:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: So how do we care for individuals in our churches that are going through this, going through an ecclesiastical triage, or I've also heard ecclesiastical rehab, which I might like that term even better.
• 17:21
  [SPEAKER_03]: Both giving the same idea, right?
• 17:25
  [SPEAKER_03]: I think the first thing that we have to do is churches, if we truly want to help these individuals, grow in their sanctification, grow in their knowledge of who God is, and help undo some of those unbiblical practices and beliefs that they are coming into your church with, is you have to be very crystal clear.
• 17:47
  [SPEAKER_03]: on your own convictions as a church and how you practice those convictions.
• 17:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: Because I cannot tell you what will, what will turn someone away from your local church faster.
• 18:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, as they are looking for a church that is, that is, you know, checking all the boxes that they are looking for, nothing will turn that person away from your church faster than a lack of clarity.
• 18:19
  [SPEAKER_02]: very true.
• 18:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: Very true.
• 18:21
  [SPEAKER_03]: I hear a lot from people that visit our church that seek membership and I'm very encouraged to hear it.
• 18:28
  [SPEAKER_03]: They said something that stood out with you guys, both in your presence online, you know, how you explain things on your website, as well as how you explain things in the membership process.
• 18:44
  [SPEAKER_03]: is your commitment to clarity on your positions.
• 18:48
  [SPEAKER_03]: I love hearing that.
• 18:50
  [SPEAKER_03]: And that is very necessary.
• 18:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: If we are going to help people effectively, come from where they've been to where we would like them to be, theologically, you have to be very clear.
• 19:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: Not only what you believe, why you believe it.
• 19:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: but how it's practiced, because there's too many individuals and churches that say they are something convictionally, but they are something different practically, and we can't afford to do that one as individuals, but definitely as local churches.
• 19:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and I think what helps you do that, hopefully your church does this, is times hopefully at the beginning, middle or end of the month to where you do like a meet and greet with your local elders after a Lord's Day service, we do it, it's like a coffee connect really, it's like the first first Lord's Day of the Month.
• 19:57
  [SPEAKER_02]: video coffee connects with our elders talk to them about what the little bit how some it is organized a little bit putting a little bit more meat to that bone and then we go even deeper in the membership class which we usually do I think by annually sometimes right now if I remember correctly so we do it kind of more towards the fall and then maybe even towards
• 20:23
  [SPEAKER_02]: Sometimes the spring, just depending upon how many people come are coming into the church and wanting to seek out membership.
• 20:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so, and that really definitely puts way a lot more understanding of where we stand on.
• 20:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: people in certain leadership positions and how leadership is structured both from Scripture of how we see it in light of the Protestant Reformation and then also through kind of more Baptist and Baptistic ways of looking at that as well too.
• 21:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: And then also
• 21:03
  [SPEAKER_02]: looking at how we're primarily reformed.
• 21:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: I would say a lower-case R reform theology.
• 21:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: I know our pastors would say we are kind of more along the lines of, like, reform Baptist light.
• 21:19
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so yeah, you kind of, you know, you work through that stuff and you also work through What are some major confessions that we'd like to look at?
• 21:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: That confess the faith correctly to a certain point where then we don't agree with it.
• 21:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: maybe like more along the lines of like infant baptism.
• 21:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's where we kind of disagree with stuff.
• 21:41
  [SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, like looking at the 1689, looking at the Heidelberger, looking at the Belgium confessions or
• 21:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: looking at some other documents as well too.
• 21:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, very more ancient documents, like the Nicene Creed, the Apostles Creed, and stuff along those lines.
• 21:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so, right, right.
• 21:59
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think that's a very important thing to do because low church evangelicalism is not helping be clear.
• 22:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: I wouldn't even say low church evangelicalism, I would say kind of more big.
• 22:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: I say big Eva, I don't want that term, big Eva, big Eva, maybe a church, maybe a kind of like multi-site kind of, you know, kind of vibes, you know, your common corporate style corporate America local church very much, very much, yes,
• 22:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: Sorry, I got to take shots people.
• 22:42
  [SPEAKER_02]: I got to shoot them.
• 22:44
  [SPEAKER_03]: I got to shoot the bullets.
• 22:45
  [SPEAKER_03]: If I have the bullets, so I know we have we have listeners that are in X-29 churches.
• 22:50
  [SPEAKER_03]: Sorry, y'all.
• 22:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: Sorry.
• 22:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: I had to take them.
• 22:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: I can.
• 22:56
  [SPEAKER_03]: The ones Jack and I have been.
• 22:57
  [SPEAKER_03]: That's very clear.
• 23:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 23:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 23:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, man.
• 23:03
  [SPEAKER_02]: Anywho.
• 23:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: But yeah, no, that's very true.
• 23:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: That's very true.
• 23:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I think.
• 23:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's amazing how simply being clear on what you believe and why you believe it is going to make you stand out from the vast majority of churches in America.
• 23:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
• 23:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: The least that you can, so here's something I would say from our generation, the millennial generation, that actually helps churches.
• 23:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: If you're transparent with people.
• 23:32
  [SPEAKER_02]: Just say it.
• 23:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: Just say what you guys are holding to and show us in the and show us in the bylaws, show us in whatever kind of church documents.
• 23:42
  [SPEAKER_02]: If you made a statement of faith, if you hold to already a statement of faith, like it's pretty easy.
• 23:47
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like if you're already like a reform Baptist church, you can just say read the 1689.
• 23:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's what we believe right there folks.
• 23:55
  [SPEAKER_03]: You can buy it.
• 23:56
  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh wait, no, we have copies of this or something like that.
• 23:59
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 24:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, it's stuff like that.
• 24:03
  [SPEAKER_02]: If you're trying to be more a little bit more, I would call us, I would call my church more like Protestant, a form of Protestant unity in that sense, where you're kind of inviting people who have been
• 24:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: just hurt from all levels of different sides of American Christianity that just has gone awry.
• 24:23
  [SPEAKER_02]: I would say we're more of like this more historic Protestant kind of refuge in that we hold true to the faith that started to become what we would call more reformed in 1517.
• 24:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so yeah,
• 24:45
  [SPEAKER_02]: the confessions and we're going to look at ancient confessions and how those shape us as well too and we're going to look at scripture in the high view.
• 24:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: We're not going to treat it as like a TED talk or something like that.
• 24:58
  [SPEAKER_03]: So yeah, I mean, and if you're going to believe it, you know, say it with your chest.
• 25:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, you know, like, I can't tell you how many times I've you know, help help, help, try to help people that are either leaving our membership or family
• 25:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: And the amount of churches out there who have a statement of faith, it's just, it's so vague.
• 25:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
• 25:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: I can't, I don't know what you believe.
• 25:21
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like this is, this is the most generic milk toast statement of faith I've ever seen.
• 25:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: That's hard because like, you know, there's, I, I think that's a lack of clarity, right?
• 25:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I think that a lot of churches would do.
• 25:36
  [SPEAKER_03]: would do well to bolster their statement of faiths what they believe and what they practice and make sure those are consistent and that they're clear and I think that that would be very helpful.
• 25:48
  [SPEAKER_03]: So that's the first thing that I think would be is majorly helpful for folks coming in dealing, you know, having to go through again, this, this, this ecclesiastical rehab.
• 26:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: The second is I think you have to be very clear on their position.
• 26:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: I think you have to do diligence to understand where they're coming from, what they're background is and what they believe.
• 26:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: because you have to make sure that as you are seeking to shepherd this person, if you're one of the pastors or come along this person as as as one of the members, you know, wanting to, you know, bring them into the, into the membership of the church, you have to make sure that the difference is that you are coming up against.
• 26:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: Are these differences here because of ignorance or are they here because this person is being stubborn?
• 26:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: and they don't want to change what they believe, right?
• 26:42
  [SPEAKER_03]: Because you're going to deal with those situations differently.
• 26:46
  [SPEAKER_03]: You don't want to mistake.
• 26:48
  [SPEAKER_03]: ignorance for stubbornness.
• 26:50
  [SPEAKER_03]: Nor do you want to mistake stubbornness for ignorance, right?
• 26:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: Because those are going to require different levels of interaction, different levels of communication as you're seeking to shepherd that person.
• 27:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: So you've got to do the work, and it takes time, and that's okay.
• 27:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: But you've got to do the work to understand, okay, where's this person coming from?
• 27:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yep.
• 27:13
  [SPEAKER_03]: And the differences that they say they have, I want to know why.
• 27:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: right because what I found Jack is that a lot of time and this happens a lot with young folks too, a lot of the young folks that come into your church believe what they believe what they don't know why they believe it.
• 27:28
  [SPEAKER_03]: It was because that's what they were taught.
• 27:30
  [SPEAKER_02]: I saw it on YouTube video that said it was Christian.
• 27:32
  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, boy.
• 27:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: Gosh, you guys.
• 27:35
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, or this is just what my the church I grew up and always taught, right?
• 27:39
  [SPEAKER_03]: This is this is what my parents believe, right?
• 27:42
  [SPEAKER_03]: And and and the concept, and you know, and again, I'm not being, I'm not being snarkiers or chisecure.
• 27:47
  [SPEAKER_03]: This is just I'm just I'm just stating a fact for so many of them, the concept.
• 27:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: of having a scriptural reason and prove and foundation for why they believe what they believe is foreign.
• 28:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: Simply simply saying, okay, you know, you say that's what you believe where in the Bible do you support that from?
• 28:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: and like the deer in the headlights.
• 28:17
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like what do you mean, where in the Bible?
• 28:21
  [SPEAKER_03]: So well, all of our beliefs as Christians must have a foundation of the Word of God, because the Word of God is our authority, and either the Word will be your authority, or you will be your authority.
• 28:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: So where is this belief coming from, right?
• 28:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: And the, and you realize real quick, okay.
• 28:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: this person has not really experienced shepherding before, or what I would consider biblical shepherding.
• 28:45
  [SPEAKER_03]: Let's go to the word.
• 28:46
  [SPEAKER_03]: Let's go to Bible.
• 28:48
  [SPEAKER_03]: That's our authority.
• 28:50
  [SPEAKER_03]: You have to do the work to see where they're coming from if you're going to shepherd them well.
• 28:56
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I would say two on this.
• 28:59
  [SPEAKER_02]: you know, this October will be 20 years since I became a Christian.
• 29:05
  [SPEAKER_02]: So October 9th of 2006 I became a believer in college.
• 29:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: And when I first stepped foot into the church that I would become a member, it was egalitarian.
• 29:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: It was in egalitarian, charismatic, four-square church.
• 29:21
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I thought that's how church okay that's how I thought church is we're gonna be and then it's like Oh wait, I start to talk to some of my Baptist friends and it's like, uh, where are you going there?
• 29:32
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm like, Huh?
• 29:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: What's up?
• 29:35
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's like it's a church.
• 29:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: I thought I was supposed to go to church.
• 29:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and it's like, uh, oh, oh, you know So you do have to peel back the layers In which some people are coming into the faith
• 29:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, hey, listen, I, you know, I somewhat thank, well, I shouldn't say that.
• 29:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's not very charitable.
• 29:56
  [SPEAKER_02]: But I do thank God for people in the four-squared denomination, but I do not appreciate some of the errors in which they have aired on.
• 30:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: So, yeah, there's that level in which you, sometimes you don't know, which you don't know, and that's the limit until somebody comes along and talks to you more in depth about that.
• 30:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: So yeah, exactly.
• 30:22
  [SPEAKER_03]: Exactly.
• 30:23
  [SPEAKER_03]: So be clear on your position and your practice, seek to bring
• 30:29
  [SPEAKER_03]: what they believe and why they believe it and realize and this is kind of the last thing I'll I'll say is that these things take time and we need to be patient and be willing to walk with these individuals who are going through this ecclesiastical rehab.
• 30:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: sometimes for a while, we have individuals that are members of our church that worked through those issues for a couple of years.
• 31:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: And we were very happy to walk with them through those things.
• 31:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: I kind of have this personal, I guess you could call it a rule,
• 31:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's more of a standard that I keep for myself, as long as the intentionality is reciprocated, I'm willing to take as long as it takes.
• 31:29
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, right because the amount of people that are in my life that have been in my past that have that I can look back and see how patient they were with me as I was just being a knucklehead and is working through just just juvenile behavior and juvenile beliefs and they were patient with me.
• 31:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: I want to be that for other people that are walking through the same things.
• 31:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: and sometimes that's a quick process.
• 31:55
  [SPEAKER_03]: Sometimes, you know, you have people who just drink reform theology through a fire hose and it is just like night and day, man.
• 32:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I mean, I think that poses its own, its own set of issues that you have to be just as intentional with shepherding through.
• 32:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: But sometimes, man, especially if the background that that individual has is either one of pain.
• 32:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: That's a big one.
• 32:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: But also one of just really messed-up deep-seated messed-up theology.
• 32:25
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
• 32:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: That's not going to happen overnight.
• 32:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 32:28
  [SPEAKER_03]: If someone has grown up in an environment where they have been taught sense of child, that if you don't have the ability to speak in tongues, then you're not a Christian.
• 32:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 32:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: That's not going to...
• 32:42
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's not going to go away quickly if you have I've been in the mix of that through the four square church and I will tell you it is the most awkward thing on the planet because you're treated as JV you're treated like junior varsity at that point you haven't ascended yet to like yeah to the to the to the to the higher planes of virtual
• 33:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: Right, and there's a lot of shame that goes with that.
• 33:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, because you know you have it people questioning like, well, well, why don't why don't I have it?
• 33:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: Right, so that's just one example.
• 33:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: You don't, you know, and that's why you take the time to do step two that we talked about learn where that person's coming from.
• 33:23
  [SPEAKER_03]: Because you're going to realize, oh, OK, this is going to be a process.
• 33:27
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like you have some really bad habits and some really off-tiltor beliefs.
• 33:34
  [SPEAKER_03]: And you are not shepherded well, and this is going to be a process for you to experience.
• 33:39
  [SPEAKER_03]: what biblical shepherding looks like, what true biblical theology looks like, what a true church, churchy, ecclesiology looks like, right, all of those things.
• 33:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: They take time.
• 33:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: So being willing to walk with those people through that, to be patient with them as, as, you know, many were patient with you.
• 34:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: And like I said, as long as that intentionality is both ways, and they are seeking to learn and ask questions and to be involved.
• 34:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: Man, I'm going to walk with that person as long as the Lord is calling me to, because that's just how, that's, that's how it goes.
• 34:21
  [SPEAKER_03]: And that's yet eight.
• 34:22
  [SPEAKER_03]: That's okay.
• 34:22
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
• 34:23
  [SPEAKER_03]: So, yeah.
• 34:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: Jack, got anything else?
• 34:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: You want to get us out of here, man?
• 34:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think that's all she wrote to be quite honest, the site, so it was out of here.
• 34:30
  [SPEAKER_02]: So, ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, if you appreciate Josh and I is efforts to make the look of true central to the believeers life, especially when it comes to this case of the ecclesiology and ecclesiastical triage, if you will, and theological triage, you could follow us for more on the sociables if you want.
• 34:55
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• 35:05
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• 35:12
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• 35:18
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• 35:30
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• 35:33
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• 35:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: That's right.
• 35:38
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• 35:38
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• 35:42
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• 35:53
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• 35:58
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• 36:01
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• 36:02
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• 36:03
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• 36:07
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• 36:12
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• 36:19
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• 36:22
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• 36:25
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• 36:27
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• 36:30
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• 36:32
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• 36:35
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• 36:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: So, that's going to do it for us here at the Reformatory.
• 36:42
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• 36:44
  [SPEAKER_03]: We'll catch you on the next step of the Reformatory.