Latest / Wicked and Grim: A True Crime Podcast / The Murder of Kelly Jean Warner

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The Murder of Kelly Jean Warner · Wicked and Grim: A True Crime Podcast

• 0:07
  Speaker 1: When Kelly Gene Warner stopped responding to messages in the
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: spring of twenty nineteen, no alarms were raised. Her life
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: had been unstable for years and long absences, while they
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: were nothing new to the people who cared about her.
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: She lived in the margins, She relied on shelters, and
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: sometimes disappeared for weeks. But this time, well, Kelly wasn't
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: simply going quiet again. You see, Kelly was already dead
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: inside a small Michigan apartment, and in the end, it
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: would take just one concerned phone call to police to
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: unravel the gruesome truth of her dismembered body and the
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: man responsible for hiding it. This is the story of
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: Kelly gen Warner.
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: My name's Ben, I'm Nicole, and you're listening to Wicked
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: and Grim, a true crime podcast.
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: Warning. The following bonds material intended more matual audience listener
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: discretion is It's been twenty twenty six for two days.
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: Stranger Things finale has dropped, and I've already consumed enough
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: calories to feed a small village. We're off to quite
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: the start.
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: It hasn't been that bad, has it.
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: I I've consumed a lot too much. I need to
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: get back into healthy lifestyle living.
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: You know, yeah, I know. I think it's still that
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: little cuspol where a lot of people are probably still
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: off and kind of living the holiday life. And Monday
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: will be the real reality check. I'm I'm going with that.
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: I think so too. It's the beginning of the reality check,
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: but the reality check will finally I think land on Monday.
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: I think you're right, but my reality check has come
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: with my stomach being alarmed with everything that's been my
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: reality check. It's screaming at me. I need vegetables and water.
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: Oh my goodness. Yeah, we probably actually need to do
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: a vegetable grocery shop, don't we.
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: We do, although we do have a lot of Brussels
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: sprouts still in the fridge.
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: We do. We both bought a pack of those, thinking
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: we needed them, so.
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: We got the double amount, which means, hey, just more veggies.
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: That's not bad.
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: Hey, I need to point something out though, that is
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: way better. One year, remember we both bought Bailey's or
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: Carolands I think yeah, and spiced rum yep. So this
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: year we both bought Brussels sprouts, So that is like
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: a move in the right direction.
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: That's true because I think it was last year you
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: bought a big bottle of Irish cream and a small
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: bottle of round. I bought a big bottle of rum
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: and a small bottle of Island Irish cream.
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: So now this year, Yeah, we doubled up. We are
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: doing good. Twenty twenty six is our year. Yeah, that's
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: how you do it.
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: I know. I think that's a big improvement.
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: Definitely, no kidding. Wow, Okay, well that wasn't planned, but
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: I like it. Now.
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: Ben's in a good mood.
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: Now I'm in a good mood. My stomach's still pissed,
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: but I'm in a good mood. But yeah, hopefully you
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: guys are having a good start to your new year.
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: Just remember, though, no pressure. The new Year's just another day.
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: It's just another year. Do you don't feel pressure from
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: reality and society to change, to be different? Be you,
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: be the healthiest and best you you can be.
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you can have that fresh start literally anytime of
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: the year. So you're not ready, You're not ready.
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: There you go, And right now I'm not ready to
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: not be drinking my coffee and switching to water just yet.
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: I need to get this down.
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: Okay, you that could be a definite goal for you
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: is to drink more water. Like I gave you a
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: cup of water yesterday. Is that all the water you drink?
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: No? Okay, I thought I only had one cup of
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: water yesterday.
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't be surprised.
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: Wow, thank you.
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: I love you to bits, but I wouldn't be surprised.
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: Holy crap, all right, I mean I'm a dehydrated individual,
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: but I'm not that dehydrated.
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: Okay, geez, well, I know you had other liquids, but
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: was that your only like physical water?
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: No? I had more water than that. Okay, more physical water.
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: I did a hand that you obviously could not see,
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: but Ben had to reiterate yes.
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: Mock well, I think we're getting off the rails. This
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: is not the way to start a new year. I
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: think we should get more into the case of Kelly
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: Gene Warner. This is it's a case I had a
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: little bit of difficulty finding information on, but I did
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: find a couple of good re sources. It is one
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: hell of a case, I'll say that, And it is
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: one hell of a story. There is bodycam footage that
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: shows a lot of this, So a lot of the
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: information that I have comes from that. You know police
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: footage going through much of the initial investigation. Let's put
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: it that way, okay, and questioning that sort of stuff.
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: Well, and didn't you warn me it's a little bit nasty.
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: It's a little bit on the graphic side. For sure.
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: I do tone down some of the graphic details. I
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: don't explored a whole lot, so I wouldn't say it's
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: like more graphic than many of our cases that we cover, okay,
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: but the context is certainly there. So if you let
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: your imagination wander on those details, yeah, it'll certainly be
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: a little bit more. Let's put it that.
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: Way, okay.
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: So you ready for this, sure? Okay, Well do it? Well?
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: I got the whole like warm up intro here for you,
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: the breakdown of the story as it's going to start.
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: And it was close to midnight on May twenty second,
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: twenty nineteen, in the quiet area of Sturgis, Michigan. This
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: neighborhood was well. It was broken the silence by a
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: knock at the door. It was inside a small apartment
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: on North Maple Street where Wade Allen, then thirty nine
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: years old, was initially asleep. He was woken up and
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: he'd only recently settled into this place after a stretch
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: of homelessness, and by all outward appearance, well it was
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: an ordinary night for him. There was no flashing lights
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: or shouting that alluded to the officers standing in the
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: hallway of his apartment waiting for him to answer the door.
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: And when Wade finally opened up, he looked groggy and
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: very confused, like someone pulled out a sleep too fast.
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: Now the officers were calm, and they weren't there to
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: arrest him. They explained they were looking for a woman
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: named Kelly, or someone maybe who went by the name
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: Kimberly or maybe kJ someone Wade might know from you know,
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: past stints at staying in shelters. Now, at first they
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: questioned him and why it took him so long and
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: to the door. He explained, you know, he was sleeping,
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: he had to get dressed. Sure, it makes sense, but
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: they were trying to find a woman by the name
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: of Kelly Jen Warner. Now, at that moment, nothing about
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: the interaction suggested what was to come. This wasn't framed
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: as a murder investigation. It wasn't even a missing person's
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: case at this point in the traditional sense. It was
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: more of a welfare check prompted by a phone call
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: that hadn't yet been explained to Wade. The officers simply
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: knocked on the door, were greeted, and said that they
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: needed to make sure that Kelly jen Warner wasn't inside
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: his apartment. Now, Wade explained that he hadn't actually seen
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: Kelly in months. Initially, he was confused with the name,
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: and it took him a minute to really register who
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: they were talking about. So last he had heard, he
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: said she was in another town called Kalamazoo. He spoke slowly,
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: almost confused, even almost like he was inconvenienced more than
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: anything else. If the officers wanted to track down, he
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: suggested they'd try the shelters that's where she usually stayed.
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: But standing in the doorway, the officers didn't leave. They
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: asked if they could come inside just to look around,
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: just to verify that she wasn't there. Now, Wade hesitated,
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: he's standing there, humming and high. Well, I don't really know,
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: he said, it was late. He said his place was messy.
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: He didn't like people coming in unannounced. He said maybe
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: tomorrow morning, if you come back, then you can come check.
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: But I mean nothing he said was illegal, but none
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: of it quite fit the situation either. The officers explained
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: him there were two options. Number one, they could detain
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: him and then leave and apply for the search warrant,
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: which wouldn't take long. Or Wade couldn't let them step inside,
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: take a quick look and prove what he claimed that,
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: you know what, she wasn't there, and then they could
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: just be done with it. After a little while, Wade
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: eventually let them step inside, knowing that he had no
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: other option, and with that, the night and the case
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: began to move in a direction that no one could
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: have predicted. To understand why the knock on Wade Alan's
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: door came so late, and why it came so quietly,
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: you first have to understand Kelly Gene Warner now most
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: people called her kJ. She was forty two years old.
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: She was a mother and a grandmother, and for much
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: of her adult life she lived on the margins of society.
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: kJ moved in and out of shelters, bounced between couches
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: and temporary housing, and spent long stretches without a permanent address.
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: She struggled with diabetes and other health issues, and she
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: also dealt with mental health challenges that made stability very
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: hard to maintain. Disappearing for days or even weeks wasn't
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: exactly unusual for her. Friends and family knew this pattern
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: quite well, and after a while she would resurface one again,
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: sometimes even in another town. It wasn't that people didn't
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: care about her, It was just that Kj's life didn't
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: follow the kind of predictable routine that triggers immediate alarm
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: when someone goes no contact for a while. Now that
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: reality mattered more than anyone realized at the time, because
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: there were no frantic early calls to police when she
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: stopped showing up or stopped answering messages. There was no
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: organized searches, no urgent press releases to the outside world.
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: kJ had simply drifted again, the way she had done
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: so many times before. But drifting and disappearing didn't define
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: KG or who she was. She was also a very
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: deeply kind person. People knew her through the shelter system
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: and remembered her as someone who looked out for others
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: who even had less than she did. She'd make snacks,
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: hand out small handmade items, sit with people and listen
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: and I mean really listen. When she had yarn and needles.
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: She would crochet or knit, sometimes even teaching others to
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: give them something to focus on. Despite everything stacked against her,
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: she tried to lift people up where she could. And
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: then there was Wade Allan. Their relationship was rather unstable,
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: on again, off again over several years. At times they
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: lived together, at other times they didn't speak. It didn't
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: look unusual, just another complicated relationship between two people struggling
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: to try and get by. But by April of twenty nineteen,
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: kJ had gone quiet once again. Her last known contact
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: was a message sent to Wade weeks earlier, but because
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: silence had been a part of her life, it didn't
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: immediately stand out as something dangerous. That's how she slipped
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: through those cracks, not because she didn't matter, which is
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: very important, but because the world had gotten so used
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: to not always knowing where she was.
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: Now.
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: The officers standing in Wade Allen's apartment door that night
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: didn't yet know any of this or what was to come.
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: They were still just looking for a woman who may
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: or may not be inside that apartment, and after talking
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: to Wade at his front door, he eventually decided to
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: let one officer enter his home because he had known
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: this officer before, and he said, you know what I'm
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: familiar with. You find you can come on in and
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: check real quick. But the other guy, he stays outside.
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: A compromise, right, So he led the officer inside to
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: prove kJ was nowhere to be found.
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: Now.
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: Once inside, the officer began looking around the small apartment.
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: It was lived in and a bit messy in a
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: way that suggested clutter rather than chaos. The officer moved carefully,
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: shining a flashlight wherever he looked, even though it was
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: a lit area. He was following Wade as he guided
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: him through the space, calling out kj's name and narrating
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: as he went to prove that she wasn't there. He
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: pointed out the kitchen, utility area, and living space sleeping
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: space where the bad bed set against the wall. He's
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: hat does, his arms spread out, kind of spinning around
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: like see she's nowhere, She's gone. I don't know where
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: she is. Scattered belongings, filled rooms, clothes, bags, odds and ends.
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: It didn't seem out of place for someone who had
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: recently been without stable housing themselves. Now. Wade kept talking
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: this entire time, explaining things before anyone asked, trying to
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: stay ahead of the moment, saying things like about the
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: clutter or the chaos. And then there was a suitcase.
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: It sat there quietly near the bed. Wade spoke up
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: before police could even ask about it, and he acknowledged
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: that yes, it did in fact belong to kJ, from
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: when she actually stayed with them before. Now this detail
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: stuck with one of the officers, the one that was
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: actually in the search. kJ being a person who did
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: not have permanent housing of her own, likely lived out
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: of a suitcase, so if she was not staying there
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: currently and traveling, while it was unusual that suitcase didn't
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: go with her, it was strange, sure, but she didn't
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: seem to be anywhere in the apartment. Wade said she
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: wasn't here, and it looked like he was right. The
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: officer was preparing himself to leave the apartment, satisfied in
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: the search, but then something caught his eye. A large
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: ice cooler, the kind meant for going camping and storing
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: food and ice, was sitting in the corner of the room.
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: It was big and not the kind people just casually
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: keep available, and when asked about it, Wade brushed it off, saying, oh, yeah,
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: it's just for summer use, you know, parties or keeping
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: things cold, something to look forward to when the weather
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: turns warmer. Still, something had shifted. Wade's tone changed when
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: the attention lingered on that cooler. He became guarded. He
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: hesitated when he spoke. He tried redirecting the officer, you know,
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: moving him through the apartment faster, and repeating, well, Kj's
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: nowhere here to be found. He hasn't been for months.
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: I don't know where she is. It was in that
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: moment that the tension in the room tightened, because the
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: officer asked Wade again, what's with that cooler? Can you
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: open it for me? Can you show me what's inside?
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: He was following basic process and protocol with this question,
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: trying to rule out the possibility that Kelly Jane Warner
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: was inside the apartment, injured or hiding or simply unwilling
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: to come forward. The officer couldn't look inside it himself either.
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: He didn't have a warrant at the time, so he
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: needed Wade to allow it to be open, to initiate it,
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: to give permission, or do it himself.
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: Okay, So he can't just touch or move things around,
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: because I was just curious to why he didn't open
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: the suitcase just double check in there.
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: No, he is simply he was given permission to enter,
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: given permission to see she's not around, and if he's
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: to initiate a search, he needs permission.
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: Right, Okay. So he's just able to do what weight
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: allows him to do.
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: Correct. So if Wade says, no, you have to leave
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: my apartment now, No you can't look in there, No
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: you can't search that, the officer has to abide, okay.
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: And if they do that, of course, you know, things
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: may escalate beyond that, which we'll get into. So if
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: Wade himself could open up that cooler to show that
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: it was in fact empty, well the welfare check it
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: would likely have just ended right there. However, Wade refused
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: to open the cooler. He can you continue to say
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: that the cooler was for later in the summer. He
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: didn't want it to be opened, and repeated that kJ
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: wasn't there and hadn't been for a long time. He
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: stumbled over his words. He kind of hummed and hawed
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: and I don't know, I just don't want it to
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: be open. That sort of kind of attitude, almost like
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: when you questioned a child, did you do your homework?
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: And they're trying to hide it, thus stuttering, the pausing.
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: That's really awkward, and that would only make you know
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: this officer want it opened.
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: More exactly so, when the officer pressed, he continued to
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: try and steer elsewhere, suggesting they check anywhere else, and
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: the officer asked, well, what about the fridge, same sort
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: of thing. He's just like, well, well, sure you can
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: check there if you want, but he still did not
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: let the cooler be checked. As the exchange went on,
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: Wade's explanations began to contradict themselves, saying there's no reason
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: to open the cooler, but also he was very deeply
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: concerned about it being opened. He stressed his privacy while
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: allowing the officer to stand inside his home. He wanted
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: the encounter to end right then and there, but only
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: on his terms, and that was the breaking point. The
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: officer explained their next step if Wade wouldn't allow them
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: to look inside the cooler voluntarily, well, they needed to
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: apply for a search warrant because they needed to look inside,
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: and with that, Wade was then detained. He was placed
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: in handcuffs and placed in a patrol car. As he
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: was let outside and placed in the back of that
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: police cruiser, his demeanor shifted once again. He began to
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: say he was panicking, and he said that he was claustrophobic.
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: In the back of the vehicle, he asked to sit
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: in certain positions and tried to negotiate, and then finally,
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: after the door was finally closed on him and he
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: was in the back seat alone, he was shouting out
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: the window and suggested that he could return inside and
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: let the officers look in the cooler without them applying
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: for the warrant.
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean it makes sense either way, they're gonna
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: get in there exactly.
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: So the officers agreed, if he's going to voluntarily show
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: them what's inside the cooler or voluntarily let them look themselves,
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: they will walk back inside. So that's what they did.
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: They walked him inside for one final look to look
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: in that cooler and other areas still that hadn't been checked.
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: They returned to the living space and Wade stood back
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: and gave express permission for the officers to open that cooler.
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: An officer stepped forward opened the lid just a bit,
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: just enough to peek inside. They were terrified of what
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: they were potentially about to see.
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah, no shit, I would not want to open that.
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: And as the lid creaked open just enough for the
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: flashlight to shine in, the tone of the investigation shifted.
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: Immediately whatever hope remained that this was a misunderstanding was
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: completely gone. Wade Allen was placed not under detention. Now
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: not being detained, he was placed under arrest on the spot,
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: and a crime scene unit was called in. Once the
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: crime scene unit arrived, the apartment was photographed and documented,
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: and when the lid of the cooler was finally about
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: to be fully opened, officers braced themselves for the worst.
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: They warned each other that, you know what, what they
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: were about to see, they wouldn't be able to unsee it. Yeah,
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: They reassured each other that they were ready, and they
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: opened the lid. Inside they found the badly decomposed remains
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: of an adult woman who was nude, had her legs
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: cut off above the knees, laying deceased. It was Kelly
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: Jene Warner and she'd been dismembered to fit inside this cooler.
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, okay, okay, A.
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: Second smaller cooler was soon located in the apartment as well,
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: and it contained a black garbage bag which had the
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: remaining dismembered legs inside. As they worked through the apartment,
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: investigators documented other findings as well. They found evidence of
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: blood splatter on walls, rubber gloves, cords, bags, personal belongings.
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: There was a white ribbon strewn on the ground, you know,
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: just general things and mess and things that appeared to
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: even belong to kJ. While the scene was being processed,
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: Wade was already being booked at the police station, and
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: once sitting down across from investigators in interrogation, Wade Allen
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: didn't present himself as a killer. He didn't even frame
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: the situation as something violent. Instead, he positioned himself as
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: a caretaker who had been overwhelmed by circumstances that he
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: did not know how to handle. He spoke about Kelly
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: Jene Warner's health. First, he emphasized her diabetes, describing her
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: as hypoglycemic and very vulnerable, someone who needed care monitoring
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: of her blood sugar. According to him, this medical condition
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: explained everything that followed. Wade told investigators that weeks earlier,
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: kJ had collapsed after a fall. In one version of
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: the story, she fell while making cereal. In another, she
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: fell in the bathroom, and that's the one he told most.
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: The cereal making one came later. Either way. He said
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: she lost consciousness for several minutes, five to ten minutes
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: by his estimate, and that afterwards she was not the same.
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: Her speech was off, her coordination it was poor, and
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: she struggled with basic tasks. He described trying to take
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: care of her on his own. He said he fed
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: her when he could, helped her drink water, and tried
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: to keep an eye on her because she wasn't steady
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: on her feet. Now, he claimed he didn't call for
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: medical help because he wasn't sure she could move and
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: because he thought he could manage the situation himself.
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: Okay, that was my question, and that answer does not
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: make any sense.
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: That is a very big question that comes up throughout
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: this story is why didn't you call for help?
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah, because she needed help, she did. If this
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: is actually what happened exactly.
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: You can't just sit here and say, oh, well, you know,
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: I'll take care of it myself. You're not a doctor. No,
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: you don't have any medical training. Even if you know
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: she has diabetes. You don't know other things that can
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: be going on, any other symptoms or something you're not
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: trained to diagnose, you're not trained to see. You don't
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: know diabetes. Even if you know it, you can't help.
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: Well, Yeah, it sounds like she would need to be.
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: In the hospital exactly. But he's like, no, I got
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: this okay, at least so he claimed, And then he
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: introduced the bathtub. Wade told police that at some point
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: he placed kJ in the tub so she could bathe
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: safely while lying down rather than standing up. He said
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: he checked on her before going to sleep and that
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: she was still breathing, but when he woke up later,
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: he claimed she wasn't alive anymore. Now, in questioning, he
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: kind of hummed and hawed about the details about this.
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: They asked, what was her head above water? Underwater? Was
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: the water running? Was it off? And all these details,
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: and he's like, uh, it's almost like he's trying to
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: recall a dream, well or.
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: He's trying to make up a damn story.
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: Exactly now, he said, after questioning each of these details,
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: while her head was below water and when he went
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: to bed the water was running, but when he woke up,
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: the water was off, so he's hummed, well, she must
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: have turned the water off before her head slipped under
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: the water. These are the things he's catching up to
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: the story as it's developing, trying to explain it away.
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: But every time he tried, it seemed to make it worse.
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: Even as he acknowledged that she was in fact dead,
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: Wade continued to avoid the obvious question. If he had
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: truly found her deceased in the bathtub, why did he
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: not call nine one one right then and there. Why
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: hadn't he contacted family or a hospital, or a doctor
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: or anyone at all. And when investigators pressed him on
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: that point, his answers were no different than the rest
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: of his vague story and clear fabrications. Honestly, he said
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: he panicked. He said he didn't know what to do.
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: He said he was afraid anything he said would be
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: taken the wrong way. He would tell police the real
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: story and they would not believe it, They would accuse
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: him of wrongdoings. Instead. As Wade spoke, investigators listened very carefully,
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: even though it was all clearly bullshit. The timeline felt off,
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: the medical explanations didn't line up, clearly, and most importantly,
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: the version of events he was offering didn't explain the
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: scene they had just walked into. Still, detectives didn't challenge
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: him really at all, not yet. They let him talk.
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: They asked questions and let him explain things now. While
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: Wade was still talking inside the interrogation room, detectives were
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: already widening the investigation to the circle of people around him.
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: One of the first people that they spoke to was
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: the woman who lived next door, Sherry White. She had
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: known Wade casually. They weren't close friends or anything, but
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: they were familiar enough to, you know, know each other
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: and share small, ordinary moments, something you know, that was neighborly.
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: Sometimes they'd come over and watch TV with each other
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: or talk in passing, that sort of stuff. But when
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: investigators asked about Kelly gen Warner, Sherry's answers immediately complicated
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: the story that Wade was claiming to be true. She
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: remembered Wade mentioning that kJ had fallen, but not the
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: way that he described police. According to Sherry, Wade said
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: that the fall happened in the bathroom, not the kitchen.
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: He told her that he thought kJ might actually even
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: have a skull fracture. Now, Sherry had been very alarmed
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: by this claim, and she told him bluntly that if
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: kJ had hit her head like this and that hard,
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: she needed to go to the emergency room. But the
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: response that he told Sherry was that he was quote
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: taking care of it. That alone raised a lot of concern,
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: but it wasn't the only thing she shared. Sherry told
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: detectives that during one conversation, completely unprompted, mind you, Wade
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: admitted that he hit women. He didn't say it defensively
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: or in anger or anything like that. He said it
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: quite casually, almost like he was confessing a bad habit.
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: When Sherry reacted with shock and told him that he
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: can go for jail for that. That's not right, that's bad.
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: Don't do that, Wade replied that he knew, and then
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: he was quote working on it.
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: Oh that is I couldn't imagine somewhat admitting that to me,
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: especially because you were probably she was probably alone with
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: him as he was admitting this to her.
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: Exactly Now, this comment, like you said, like she's probably alone.
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: It's very unsettling, and it unsettled her enough she began
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: keeping her distance from him as best she could now.
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: Other details followed too. Sherry described moments when Wade's behavior
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: felt controlling and off. She recalled, in fact, an interaction
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: where she knocked on his door. She was going to
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: ask if he had any coffee that morning, and kJ
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: answered the door to the apartment. The door kind of
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: cracked open. She was kind of hiding behind the door
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: a little bit, just peeking her head out, but kJ
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: was completely nude, and she said that she would talk
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: to Wade real quick and before closing the door. And
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: soon Wade came over knocking on Sherry's door with coffee,
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: and he let Shurey know that kJ crossed a line
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: by answering the door like that. He said that he
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: would have to quote have to get the belt out
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: quote Hugh, framing it as punishment for what she had done.
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, was he kind of saying I almost
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: wonder if he was saying that jokingly, But still that's
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: not right at all.
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: It was not jokingly.
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: Oh okay, dang.
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: Now, by the time investigators finished speaking with Sherry, they
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: were already asking a new question, who was it who
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: had called police in the first place in regards to
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: Kj's welfare. If they're expanding questioning to the circle surrounding him, Well,
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: who was it that called this in? Well, the original
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: tip had come in anonymously, but detectives easily trace the
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: call back to a man by the name of Steve
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: Ryan Russ. He was a longtime friend of Wade Allen.
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: When officers reached out to him, Steve explained that Wade
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: had come to him weeks earlier, needing to talk. At first,
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: Wade framed the situation the same way he would later
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: with police. Something that happened to Kelly Gene Warner, something
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: that happened unexpectedly, something he didn't know how to handle.
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: But as the conversation went on, the reality became impossible
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: to ignore. Because Wade then told him that kJ was dead,
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: not missing, not hurt, dead, He admitted that he hadn't
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: reported it. Instead, he told Steve that he had kept
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: her body in the bathtub for a period of time.
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: Then he asked Steve if you could help him move
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: and get rid of Kj's body, to which Steve absolutely refused.
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: He was horrified by this whole situation.
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah, that would be an easy hell no, yeah.
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: He told investigators that he was torn in those moments.
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: Wade was one of his closest friends, and there was
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: a part of him that wanted to believe that there
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: was some kind of explanation for what had happened, an
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: accident that spiraled out of control. But the more Wade talked,
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: the worse it sounded. He asked Stephen if he wanted
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: to see the body in fact, like it was something
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: to display or even show off. Now, Steve flatly said no.
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: He didn't want to be anywhere near it, and he
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: didn't want to be a part of what was happening either. Still,
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: he did not call police right away. That delay weighed
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: on him heavily in the following days. He later explained
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: that his family had grown increasingly worried about Wade's behavior,
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: that they were frightened enough that they couldn't sleep, And
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: Steve realized that, you know, keeping the secret wasn't protecting anyone,
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: and it was only allowing something deeply wrong to be
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: continuing to be unchecked in the world. So that's when
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: he made the call the police. Now, with Steve's account
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: on the table, investigators began reconstructing the days and weeks
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: between Kelly, Jene Warner's death and the night police arrived
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: at the apartment. This was the part of the story
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: that refuses used to make sense, no matter how many
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: times it was examined. Now, with Steve's account on the table,
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: investigators began reconstructing the days and weeks between Kelli Jeen
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: Warner's death and the night police arrived at the apartment.
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: This was the part of the story that refused to
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: make sense, no matter how many times it was examined.
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: According to Wade Allen, once he realized kJ was dead,
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: he didn't know what to do, he said, panic set in.
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: He claimed, fear took over, and rather than calling for help,
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: he focused on the body itself. He told investigators, he
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: began keeping her cold, which was a way to preserve her,
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: something he said he picked up from watching crime shows,
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: and I believe he's likely referring to slowing down decomposition.
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: So he ran cold water over her in the bathtub.
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: But when that wasn't enough, he also began to notice
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: the blood pooling on the underside of her skin. On
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: the backside. He went and bought a large cooler at
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: that moment, realizing he needed to do something different. Days
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: pass and During that time, Wade continued living in the apartment.
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: He slept there, he watched TV, and he came and
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: went living his life. In fact, at least one person
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: even visited during this time. Someone even sat down inside
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: the room on top of the cooler, unaware of what
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: was actually contained inside.
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: Oh, I hate that. That is really really, really really
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: messed up.
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the smell began to slowly seep out from inside
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: of this cooler as well, faint at first, then stronger.
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: Some assumed it was plumbing. Others thought maybe it was
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: an animal that had died inside the walls, but no
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: one imagined the truth that a body remained there the
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: entire time. Wade told police that from the beginning, as
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: the days went on, he checked on kJ as she's
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: laying in the bathtub. For example, he spoke to her
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: even though he knew she was gone, ribed watching the
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: changes happening, noticing stiffness, then the stiffening fading. His explanations
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: drifted between detachment and discomfort, as if he were describing
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: something that happened to someone and trying to put it
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: into concerned words that people were supposed to feel, rather
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: than what he actually felt like. He was putting on
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: a show. As investigators continued piecing together what happened inside
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: the apartment, attention turned to how the body had been
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: separated into pieces. We know what happened, but how well.
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: The answer didn't come from forensic evidence alone. It came
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: from people who had interacted with him during the weeks
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: after Kelly Jene Warner was already dead too. One of
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: those people was his neighbor Sherry. She told detectives that
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: at some point after Kj's supposed fall, Wade came over
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: and asked to borrow a saw. Now on its own,
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: the request was ordinary people borrow tools from neighbors all
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: the time. What made it on sting was his explanation, though,
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: because he told her he needed to cut his mattress
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: in half. Okay, and thankfully for Sherry, she didn't have
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: a saw to lend, and the conversation ended there. But
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: the odd excuse stuck with her and she remembered that conversation.
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: Oh man, and meanwhile, he was just needing this to
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: cut limbs off. Yeah, fit something into something exactly.
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: Investigators later learned that Wade didn't drop the idea from here, though.
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: Instead he went out and bought a reciprocating saw himself. Now,
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: a reciprocating saw is an electrical saw. You put like
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: a hacksaw blade on it, and it goes back and
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: forth automatically when she pulled the trigger and during his interviews,
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: Wade Allen eventually admitted that when he realized Kj's body
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: wasn't going to fit inside this single cooler, he decided
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: dismemberment was the only option. He talked about it like
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: it was a logistical problem rather than a moral one.
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: He talked about the stiffness, about the weight of the
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: body and not being able to her otherwise. He talked
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: about how he began cutting her legs off below the
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: knee and realizing that she wasn't fitting in the cooler
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: like that, so he had to make cuts again, this
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: time above the knee to make her fit, and then
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: her legs were placed in a smaller cooler. Once he
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: was done, Wade no longer wanted the saw, and rather
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: than dispose of it quietly, he reached out to someone
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: he knew from the shelter system and proposed a trade.
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: Long story short, he traded the saw for a DVD player.
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: Okay, this is just getting more and more messed up
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: because it's always so interesting to me the thought process
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: and how it just in this case is just continuing
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: on spiraling really instead of you know, at one point,
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: could you not have a normal thought being like this
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: is totally wrong? What the hell am I doing here?
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: Well, I think you nailed it right there saying that
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: you're interested in the thought process. I think it's more
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: the lack of thought process.
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: Okay, that's exactly, because.
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: If you had a thought process, you would realize what
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: am I doing here? What's the reality of what I
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: should be doing?
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: You know, yeah, because I can understand, you know, a
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: little bit of spiraling, But the more and more steps
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: that come about after it's like, at one point, would
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: you not realize, like what am I doing?
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: Especially cutting the legs off? And then oh shit, I
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: didn't do him enough. Let's go further up, like what
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: the actual like absolute shit? What's I can't even speak
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: because it just I just couldn't fathom understandable.
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: It's a fucked up situation. But yet he keeps going
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: further and further.
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: And then now incriminating someone with the.
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: Saw, well not necessarily.
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: I mean the person getting the saw is like sweet
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: but like has no idea what the hell it was doing.
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: But at the very least that's preserving the evidence, right,
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: someone has a weapon from the crime scene now, and
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: police did later track down this saw. The man who
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: received it later describe Weight as very oddly insistent about
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: getting rid of it. Okay, So they were able to
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: find the saw, which helps investigation rather than just you know,
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: throw it in the garbage.
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: I guess now.
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: Detectives continued reaching out to people from Wade's past to
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: see what else they could find, former partners, acquaintances, anyone
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: who might help explain the dynamic of his relationship with
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: Kelly Gene Warner. What they heard was troubling but very consistent.
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: Wade had a history of volatile relationships. Control issues surfaced
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: again and again, Arguments escalated quite quickly, and physical discipline,
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: framed by Wade as punishment, wasn't a one off admission.
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: It was part of a pattern. The use of a
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: belt came up more than once two which is exactly
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: why I know he wasn't joking when he mentioned it earlier.
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: In Wade's own words, using it was preferable to using
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: his hands. He even admitted this to police There is
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: footage of him talking about I used a belt because
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: then I wouldn't use my hands. Wow, He's like, I
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: know it's not as good or whatever, but it's like
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: to him, this distinction, it seemed very important, like that
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: distinction made him not a monster. Because he's using a
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: tool instead of physically physically with his own hands. There's
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: a barrier, there's a separation in his mind.
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: I guess so he very much so is an abuser.
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: This wasn't just like a one time his accident kind
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: of thing.
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: Very much so an abuser. I don't really talk about
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: this and what I've wrote down, but I think here's
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: a good time to mention it. Police believed that kJ
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: was made to walk around the apartment nude, which is
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: why she answered the door that day in the nude
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: and then was potentially punished for it because of that
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: controlling behavior.
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: So she wasn't so she was following his directions of
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: walking around nude, but that I guess he didn't like
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: that she answered the door while doing it.
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so there's he's very controlling, right, So she does
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: anything that he doesn't approve of, he's going to punish her.
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: And now you also have to remember, you have a
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: person who lives in the margins of life, who lives
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: in shelters, and now she has an opportunity to live
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: in an apartment with a partner. H she'll do a
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: lot to probably try and stay there, which is so sad.
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: It is so he's taking massive advantage of this individual who's,
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: like I said, on the margins of life now. Witnesses
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: also described behavior that felt increasingly restrictive as time went on,
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: wide monitored movements, he decided what was acceptable. When he
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: felt disrespected or betrayed, he reacted with control rather than communication.
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: Just like that incident with her answering the door, the
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: relationship with kJ, which he had tried to present as
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: mutually dependent and loving, began to look a lot different.
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: The idea that kJ had simply fallen and never recovered
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: became increasingly difficult to accept. To falls don't explain weeks
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: of isolation, They don't explain punishment, and they certainly don't
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: explain why someone would go to such lengths to control
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: what others saw, herd or knew. When Kj's remains were
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: finally examined, investigators were hoping for clarity After weeks of
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: concealment and decomposition. The autopsy was the one place they
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: thought the timeline might stop shifting and settle into something solid. Instead,
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: it did something else. The medical examiner was able to
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: determine that Kj's death was indeed a homicide, not an accident,
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: but was unable to determine the precise mechanism that caused it.
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: The condition of her body made that almost impossible. Time
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: exposure and the extent of her injuries had erased the
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: clean forensic answers they were looking for. What the autopsy
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: could show, though, was just as important. There were multiple
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: areas of bruising, including injuries to her chin, neck, and ear,
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: most notably the hyoid bone. Now, this is located at
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: the base of the tongue, and it was fractured, and
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: it is rarely broken except in cases involving significant force
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: directly to the neck. So while not conclusive on its own,
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: that finding strongly supported the possibility of strangulation, and her
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: death was not consistent with a simple fall, a medical episode,
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: or a sudden accident. After questioning, Wade was taken into custody,
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: official custody, not just you know, placed under arrest. In
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: questioning and investigators from here expected him to retreat inwards.
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: I mean, most people do, they lawyer up, they go quiet,
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: and they wait, that sort of thing. But Wade, however,
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: he did the opposite. Inside Saint Joseph County Jail, Wade
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: Allen began talking, you know, conversations with other inmates, the
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: kind that happened when people are trying to establish themselves
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: in an unfamiliar environment. But those conversations quickly took a
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: very dark turn. Wade talked about what he had done,
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: and he didn't just hint at what had happened to
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: kJ He described it in graphic detail, not once, but
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: repeatedly to several other inmates.
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: Honestly, that's not surprising because there's been times where he's
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: talked about it with friends too, and it almost seems
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: like he's proud of this, or like with his one friend,
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: his really good friend, he wanted to show off the body.
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Now, so I think it's not necessarily being proud
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: of it per se, but I think it's more of
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: a use of manipulating. He likes to have control and
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: he doesn't like when people do things he doesn't approve of.
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: So I think, my guess, my best guess is he's
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: doing these things to try and have control over people.
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: I did this to someone, you better do what I say,
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: or you know, like there's that underlying tone of you
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: could be next sort of thing.
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: Okay, So in jail he's almost wanting to look a
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: little bit like a tough guy.
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: That's my best guess. I think he's trying to more
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: establish himself like I did this, you know, like.
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: I'm capable of this.
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, this is why I'm here. I'm capable of it.
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: That sort of attitude. Again, I don't know, that's my
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: best guess. Now. Multiple inmates were interviewed separately, and separately
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: is very important, and they reported that Wade told them
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: that he had strangled kJ with a white ribbon. A
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: white ribbon, in fact, that I mentioned, was found inside
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: his apartment. He spoke about watching the clock as he
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: squeezed the life out of her. He watched five minutes
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: pass by. Then afterwards, when she was dead, not breathing,
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: he described reviving her with CPR briefly before continuing to
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: do it again, as if the first time wasn't enough.
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: Are you kidding me?
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: No, I'm not.
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: Oh no, I don't feel like I've ever heard anything
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: so terrible.
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: He killed her, then revived her to kill her again.
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: Fully, frig that is messed up.
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: Others recalled him framing the violence as punishment tied to
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: accusations that he had betrayed him in some weird way.
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: Others even told about how Wade had used Kj's body
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: for sex after she was dead. Now, police footage shows
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: one inmate extremely uncomfortable in this situation and even on
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: the edge of tears, explaining that Wade told him he
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: would warm up her body in bath water and then
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: eventually that the stiffness in her jaw faded so he
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: was able to take advantage of that.
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: What okay, I am freaking uncomfortable listening to this as well.
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I was uncomfortable researching this. And now these weren't
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: vague boasts or you know, exaggerations. The detail matched pieces
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: of the evidence investigators had already had, and inmates were
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: all very consistent with their stories. Several of these inmates
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: told police they were disturbed how calmly Wade spoke about
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: what he'd done. There was no panic in his voice,
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: no visible guilt. He didn't describe the acts as mistakes.
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: He was kind of like that. I don't know boasting,
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: but that, like I said that, there was that demeanor
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: about him where he's telling them flat out, you know
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: what I mean. More than one inmate said they were
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: afraid to sleep in the same unit as him. Some
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: took turns staying awake at night, worried he might hurt
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: someone else.
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I would be afraid too. This guy has
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: some serious issues.
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: Because when these accounts were finally reported to authorities, detectives
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: didn't immediately act with evidence with these as evidence, sort
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: of say, because jail house informants, they're always treated very cautiously.
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: You don't know what their intentions are, whether it's true,
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: whether it's false. But as the statements piled up and
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: the patterns were emerging, it was impossible to ignore. The
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: inmates didn't know each other very well, not everyone that spoke,
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: and they had nothing to gain. Their stories aligned too
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: closely to be coincidence. The moment Wade Alan actually realized, though,
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: that the inmates around him had talked and the truth
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: had reached law enforcement, the men he had confided in
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: were no longer just fellow inmates. In his mind, they
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: had crossed a line and as he had done before,
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: when he felt challenged or exposed, Wade responded with control
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: and punishment. In October of twenty twenty, while housed in
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: Saint Joseph County jail, Wade was rehoused with one of
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: the inmates who had actually provided some information to authorities,
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: and what followed was an assault. The victim later told
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: the court that the act was not consensual. He described
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: it as a deliberate attack meant to intimidate and retaliate
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: an unmistakable message that was speaking out of consequence. Surveillance footage,
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: jail records, and medical document documentation supported his account and
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: this incident it reinforced everything that we had come to
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: understand about Wade's behavior to this point. When he believed
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: someone had betrayed him for whatever reason, he acted when
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: he felt control was slipping away, he tried to take
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: it back by force. Now, the assault led to an
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: additional charge of attempted third degree criminal sex conduct, which
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: we don't know all the details, but that means there
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: was an attempt at sexual penetration with either a body
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: part or an object.
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: Shit. Okay, I know that these people are like inmates
• 47:23
  Speaker 2: and shit, but if officers or investigators or whatever, or
• 47:27
  Speaker 2: trying to get information from these people. They should also
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: be like protecting them too, to a degree they should be.
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: And that is definitely a slip in the system. Why
• 47:35
  Speaker 2: he was housed in the same acts, Like, how the
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: shit does that end up happening?
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I have no answer for you, unfortunately.
• 47:44
  Speaker 2: I mean it does in a way. It shows like
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: how much more of a monster this Wade guy is.
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: So so that could maybe be help in his sentencing,
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: her trial or whatever in him, you know.
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: Getting for sure, forgetting.
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: The life or whatever this guy deserves.
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: For confirming the charges getting convict did and the sentencing
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: to follow. You're right, it certainly helps prosecutors.
• 48:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but that inmate did not that that should not
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: have happened.
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: No, it should not have. Now, as the case against Wade,
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: Allen moved towards trial, the whole murder thing, well, it
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: nearly collapsed. But not because of lack of evidence, though,
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: but because of how that evidence was discovered. Wade's defense
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: team focused on the moment police first entered his apartment
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: and opened the cooler without a warrant. You see, they
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: argued that the search violated his constitutional rights, and that
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: everything found afterwards, the body, the statements of physical evidence
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: should be suppressed in court.
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: Ah, okay, I don't agree with that, Like, fuck his rights. Really,
• 48:48
  Speaker 2: he just killed someone.
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, at that point, fuck his rights. One. If that
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: argument that succeeded, though, the prosecution's case would be moot
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: before it ever reached a jury. For months the case legal,
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: limbo Wade underwent psychiatric evaluation to determine whether he was
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: even competent to stand trial. Appeals were filed, hearings were delayed,
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: and while the remain while he remained in custody, while
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: the clock just kept ticking, and the question looming over
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: everything was whether the most critical evidence in the case
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: would ever be allowed in court now. Thankfully, the prosecution
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: countered with a simple but powerful argument inevitability. They argued
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: that even if the initial look inside the cooler had
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: crossed a legal line, which it didn't because he wasn't
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: coerced and he gave express permission, police already had enough
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: information to obtain a search warrant and were in progress
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: of doing so when he offered to step forward and
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: let them look. The anonymous tip waves behavior has refusal
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: to open the cooler the presence of kJ suitcase. All
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: of it pointed to the same conclusion. A warrant would
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: have been issued and the body would have been found regardless.
• 50:00
  Speaker 2: Okay, but still he gave them permission.
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: He did. But the defense is saying he was He
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: might have given permission, but it was under coercion, under stress,
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: that sort of stuff. That's their defense to say.
• 50:17
  Speaker 2: I don't know how I feel about that. That's frustrating.
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: It very much so is And the fact that that's
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: a defense, in my mind is ridiculous. Yeah, he had
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: a dead body in his home and you're going to
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: argue semantics over whether it should have been found or not. Yeah,
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: to Shae, it's fucking ridiculous. So in November of twenty
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: twenty one, the case reached the Michigan Court of Appeals
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: and the ruling was decisive. The court agreed with prosecutors,
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: finding that the discovery of Kj's remains was in fact inevitable.
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: With that ruling, the case snapped back into place. The
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: evidence would stand, and by early twenty twenty three, the
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: prosecution was preparing to present a detailed and deeply disturbing case.
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: The trial date was set, jury selection was approaching, and
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: then at the last possible moment, everything changed. On the
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: eve of jury selection in January twenty twenty three, after
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: years of delays, evaluations, and legal maneuvering, Wade Allen made
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: a quiet but consequential decision. He entered a plea of
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: no contest, meaning he accepts punishment for the crime without
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: admitting guilt. By pleading no contest, Wade avoided a public reckoning.
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: The plea meant he did not formally admit that guilt,
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: but it also did not dispute the facts as presented
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: by the state. Legally, it allowed the court to treat
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: the case as a conviction without requiring a trial.
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: Oh, this seems like this would be better.
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: For him, then it would be basically, yes, he still
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: gets the same result, but there's not that closure in
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: the end. Practically, it spared Wade from having to sit
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: through days or weeks of testimony detailing what investigators believed
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: he had done to Kelly Gene Warner, which is largely
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: why this story has a lot of loose facts and
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: second hand telling regarding of the details. It also spared
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: Kj's family from having to listen to every single detail
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: of her final weeks laid out in open court, and
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: during the brief plea hearing, Wade spoke very little, but
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: when he did while his words circle back to the
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: same themes that he had relied on from the very beginning.
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: He expressed regrets but not responsibility, and he framed the
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: situation as something that had happened around him rather than
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: something he had caused. He mentioned Kj's health issues again.
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: He said he wished he had taken better care of her,
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: and he continued to try and act and speak in
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: ways that he thought people should be in the situation.
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: He always did that he was trying to gauge reactions
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: and feed off that to tell what to say and
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: how to move next. He was honestly terrible at betraying
• 53:01
  Speaker 1: emotions and feelings for what he had done. He was
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: simply trying to borrow them instead, trying to make his
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: answer something that they want to hear. And yet this
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: whole time he just got worse and worse at it. Still,
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: what he did not do was explain why he never
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: called for help, why her body was hidden for weeks,
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: and why he dismembered her and stored her remains in
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: a cooler Prosecutors meanwhile stated plainly that had the case
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: gone to trial, they were prepared to present evidence of
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: long standing abuse, escalating control, and deliberate acts meant to
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: conceal a homicide. But ultimately years of investigation came to
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: an abrupt end because there would be no jury verdict,
• 53:41
  Speaker 1: no dramatic closing arguments, or public weighing of guilt. Instead,
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: the case moved directly to sentencing in early twenty twenty three,
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: nearly four years after police first stood in the doorway
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: on North Maple Street. Here, the court also addressed what
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: happened after Wade's arrest and how he assaulted one of
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: those in mates who spoke against him. Prosecutors emphasized that
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: even in custody, Wade continued to use violence as punishment
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: and control. When it was his turn to speak, Wade cried.
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: He said he never wanted Kelly to die, and continued
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: the same story employ he had every other time before.
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: He did apologize to her family and asked for forgiveness.
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: Whether it was real or not, I don't know, and
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: I doubt, but what he did not do was accept
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: responsibility for causing her death. The judge was unmoved and
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: pointed out that if Wade was speaking the truth, then
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: he had every opportunity to seek medical help, to call
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: for emergency services, or to report Kelly's death when it occurred,
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: but instead he chose not to, and he chose to
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: dismember her remains instead. Wade was sentenced to thirty nine
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: to sixty years in prison for second degree homicide, with
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: additional consecutive time from a mutilation of a dead body,
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: and for the jail health sexual assault as well. He
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: was also ordered to pay restitutions for Kelly's burial expenses,
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: cover court costs and fines, and register for life as
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: a sex offender. It was in effect a life sentence.
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: By the time the court proceedings ended, Kelly gen Warner's
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: name kJ had been repeated countless times in reports, filings,
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: and testimonies, but in many of those spaces she existed
• 55:30
  Speaker 1: only as evidence, a body, a timeline, and a victim.
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: But she deserved so much more than that. Kelly Gene Warner,
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: known as most simply as kJ, lived a very complicated life,
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: but not an empty one. She moved through shelters and
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: temporary housing, sometimes drifting out of touch with family and friends,
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: not because she didn't care, but because instability had simply
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: become normal. People who knew her described her as warm
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: and generous in small and quiet ways. She shared what
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: little she had. She checked in on others who were struggling.
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: She made snacks for people in the homeless community. She
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: crocheted and knitted, often even teaching others just to simply
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: give them something steady to focus on. She was a mother,
• 56:19
  Speaker 1: she was a grandmother, and her life did not fit
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: neatly into typical societal systems. What made her vulnerable in
• 56:27
  Speaker 1: ways that she did not deserve is exactly that, and
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: it also made it easier for her to disappear and
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: go unnoticed at first, something that weighed heavily on those
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: who loved her once the truth finally came out. Wade
• 56:40
  Speaker 1: Alan exploited that in the end, much of the public's
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: attention focused on the brutality of the crime, on the
• 56:46
  Speaker 1: shock value of what investigators found in on the disturbing
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: things Wade later said and did. But those details, as
• 56:55
  Speaker 1: horrifying as they are, do not define Kj's life. The
• 56:58
  Speaker 1: only mark its end. What matters more is that she
• 57:03
  Speaker 1: was real, She mattered, She was loved, and even when
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: life made that hard to see from the outside, she
• 57:11
  Speaker 1: was a person. Stories like this should not belong to
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: monsters like Wade Allen. They belong to the women and
• 57:19
  Speaker 1: to the victims whose lives are reduced to evidence, and
• 57:22
  Speaker 1: to the people who love them. Kelly gen Warner, like
• 57:27
  Speaker 1: all victims, should be remembered not for what was done
• 57:31
  Speaker 1: to her, but for who she was before it ever happened.
• 57:35
  Speaker 1: Her story may end here, but remembering her means refusing
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: to let those monsters take over even in the aftermath,
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: and never letting lives like her fade quietly into the
• 57:47
  Speaker 1: margins ever again. And that's the story of Kelly Gene Warner.
• 57:56
  Speaker 2: Hmm, not just so sad, it is. I love people
• 58:01
  Speaker 2: like her that are just like they don't have much,
• 58:05
  Speaker 2: but they are, but they're still just so willing to
• 58:07
  Speaker 2: be kind And it's like they almost live their life
• 58:10
  Speaker 2: by how kind they can be to others even though
• 58:13
  Speaker 2: they are struggling themselves. So that is like a true
• 58:17
  Speaker 2: amazing person.
• 58:18
  Speaker 1: True amazing person for sure. I honestly, it's funny when
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: you look at society and people. It's not always this way,
• 58:26
  Speaker 1: but there is a reoccurring theme those who seem to
• 58:29
  Speaker 1: not have much themselves always seem to be more willing
• 58:32
  Speaker 1: to give to.
• 58:33
  Speaker 2: Others, which is kind of weird. I guess it's just
• 58:36
  Speaker 2: because they know what it feels like, maybe maybe, and
• 58:40
  Speaker 2: then people who have more are so I don't know,
• 58:43
  Speaker 2: far from knowing what it's like.
• 58:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, But I mean Wade was the exception to this rule.
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: He lived in housings and things like that as well,
• 58:53
  Speaker 1: in the societal margins as well too, but instead he
• 58:57
  Speaker 1: took He was the exact opposite of Kelly or kJ
• 59:03
  Speaker 1: He was that monster, that exception to the rule. And yeah,
• 59:07
  Speaker 1: I can't believe people like that exist, whether they have
• 59:11
  Speaker 1: lots or not.
• 59:12
  Speaker 2: I watched this true crime show actually over the holidays,
• 59:16
  Speaker 2: and there was someone in there that they were made
• 59:20
  Speaker 2: themselves available to hire to basically be an accessory to
• 59:25
  Speaker 2: kill someone, and they be like a hit man kind of,
• 59:27
  Speaker 2: but they didn't actually do the killing. They just were
• 59:30
  Speaker 2: part of making the operation a success, I guess, gotcha.
• 59:33
  Speaker 2: And they did it for five hundred bucks, geez. And
• 59:37
  Speaker 2: the officer was just like, how on earth like you
• 59:40
  Speaker 2: did that for five hundred dollars and they were basically
• 59:44
  Speaker 2: just like, well, have you ever been so poor that
• 59:46
  Speaker 2: you needed five hundred bucks that much, and it was
• 59:50
  Speaker 2: just like, holy shit. It was a little bit eye
• 59:52
  Speaker 2: opening that like to some people, I guess that's like
• 59:55
  Speaker 2: a lot of money and they would do anything for that.
• 59:57
  Speaker 2: And then also kind of eye opening that you know,
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 2: the officer had no idea someone would need to do
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 2: something like that for five hundred bucks. Not saying that's
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 2: right in any way it's terrible, but it's just this
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 2: like kind of just showing a little bit like this divide,
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 2: you know, But I.
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 1: Don't care how poor or how rich you are. No
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 1: dollar amount should ever correlate to someone's life. No, absolutely,
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 1: not five billion dollars. I'm not going to help murder someone,
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 1: Like what the hell? No, I understand, like it's their
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 1: life or mind sort of thing. But there's other things
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 1: you can do for money. There's other things, there's other ways,
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 1: there's systems out there. I mean, I know they're not perfect,
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 1: but there's things out there to help people. And uh,
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I could go on for hours, I know,
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 1: and unfortunately, many of my my arguments could even be
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 1: moved because people what the experience and what is supposed
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 1: to be available can be so different too. I don't
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 1: understand every situation, but the bottom line is, no fucking
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 1: dollar amount should correlate to a human life period.
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 2: Oh gosh, absolutely not.
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 1: And that goes for all levels too, government levels, you know,
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 1: rich people, poor people. I don't care, but we live
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 1: in a fucked up world.
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you could say that again, that's for sure.
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 1: Sorry, I'm angry. I'm angry over what you were just
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: talking about this story.
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 2: Angry.
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I'm angry.
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, I mean, yeah, it's it's really messed up
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 2: when you sit back and think about, like, you know,
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 2: these cases on surface level are really sad and horrific
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 2: and should not be happening and stuff, But then when
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 2: you actually really deeply think about them too, it's just
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 2: like maddening.
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 1: It is so anyway, on that note, happy twenty twenty six.
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 2: But I am glad that you shared her story because
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 2: it did need to be shared and she did not
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 2: deserve to be that or to be treated that way.
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 1: Well and much anyway, You're right, You're right, And much
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 1: of what I found searching for her story was under
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 1: Wade Allen's name.
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 2: So I don't love that.
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 1: Now this episode, I'm not sure I'm not sure. I
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 1: Wade Allen's name will probably be in the description, but
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 1: this is the story of Kelly Jene Horner. This is
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 1: a story of kJ This episode is titled with her name,
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 1: not Wades. So hopefully when someone out there wants to
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 1: learn more about her and they search, they will FoST
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 1: start finding more things about her and not him.
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 2: I'm not the monster, yes.
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 1: So anyways, I'm not gonna be drinking water after this.
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 1: I'm going straight to whiskey.
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, Ben, So.
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna dehydrate rather than hydrate. Hopefully, you guys are
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 1: gonna have a good day. I'm just gonna say that.
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 1: Don't forget to look at the description. Leave a review.
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 1: We appreciate the hell out of you, and we're looking
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 1: forward to this ride that twenty twenty six is going
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 1: to be and we're here with you along the way
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 1: and until next episode, cheers, Stay Wicked.