Latest / Nutrition Connection by Dr. Kristen Hicks-Roof / 69: Emily Levin MPH, RDN - PUBLIC HEALTH / GOVERNMENT

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69: Emily Levin MPH, RDN - PUBLIC HEALTH / GOVERNMENT · Nutrition Connection by Dr. Kristen Hicks-Roof

• Kristen Hicks-Roof: Welcome back to the Nutrition Connection Podcast, the show where science meets storytelling. I'm your host, Dr. Kristen Hicksroof, dietitian, researcher, and lifelong advocate of the role of nutrition, health, and wellness. Each episode, I sit down with dietitians and nutrition experts all across the food and healthcare landscape, leaders whose work touches nearly every aspect of our lives. The views, thoughts, and comments on this podcast do not reflect those of my employer nor the employers of my guest. So let's go ahead and get connected. I'm super excited to bring on my guest today. We've had many different crossovers over the years, and I'm telling you, you're in for a story. She has such unique experiences touching government, touching food as medicine, and really as a public health dietitian. So we have Emily Levin. She's a public health analyst and registered dietitian. Welcome to the show, Emily. Emily: Thank you so much for having me. This is so fun. I'm so excited to chat. Kristen Hicks-Roof: And I loved how before we were talking, before we hit record, you're like, what kind of data do I need to report? Or like, what do I need to talk about? I'm like, this is your story. This is my favorite part about the podcast is really talking about your story. How did you get the job you got? What's your journey been like as a nutrition professional? And ultimately, what tips do we have for the listeners? So we're gonna dive all the way in it. Emily: That sounds amazing. So super excited. Kristen Hicks-Roof: So what really inspired you and even made you want to go into the nutrition profession? Emily: So I kind of have a funny, unique background where I was one of those students that always knew I wanted to study nutrition. Early on in high school, I really was drawn to my, we had what I would call food and health class. And we were cooking, we were talking about what it's like to have a family and cook. And I was so drawn to that class. I ended up being a student teacher on it in high school, which was super fun. But probably before that, I actually became a vegetarian just because I was like, it was introduced to me and it was just something I wanted to try when I was like nine years old, which was kind of different. And ever since then, it was like all these conversations anytime I went to the pediatrician, it was like, well, what are you eating? And the questions always went back to like, how are you getting protein? And like, you need these foods, but it was never talked about like, you need to like what protein is. or like what really food is. They was just like, you need to eat protein because you need to grow. And it was like, okay, what does that mean? And I like feel so fortunate that my family was super supportive and that my mom would like make two dinners every night, which is amazing. But like, she also didn't really know what that meant. so nutrition became really integrated into just like our family conversations about like, what do you need to grow big and strong when you're a kid and you like cut out a big portion of food that like I grew up in the Midwest. it was food like meat was like part of really what we ate every day. So really understanding that. And so I think that plus being drawn to the classes and then being brought up in a family of doctors, it was like, it just was like the perfect mix of like, I want to study nutrition. And I was really lucky to where I was able to shadow a dietitian in high school as well. And that really solidified my interest in like, okay, hospital foods, like this, this is a place that like, I think I can really be and thrive. Yeah. So that was like the little, the little Emily story. Kristen Hicks-Roof: What I was gonna say, I actually came at it almost in the opposite direction, where it was like, I was an athlete and I ate terribly. Like it sounds like for you, you're like, I want to be very mindful of what I'm eating, you know? And I ate so poor nutrition quality that I kept getting injured. And I was like, I don't understand. Like I'm eating food that I have to. But, you know, I've seen and I've talked with many patients and even my own family over the years, like, yeah, that's high in carbs or that's high in protein. They're like, What? Is that like it's like my mom the other day she got a a medical diagnosis and she's like basically I'm going carb free. I'm like, mom, you're not going carb free. You're you're still eating fruits and vegetables and dairy. You're just not eating refined carbs like refined Emily: Thank Kristen Hicks-Roof: breads, you know? And so I think there's we throw around these words like we think everyone identifies and understands, but they don't. Emily: Yeah, like 100%. That totally makes sense and that is probably what really drew me into wanting to learn more because I was like, what is a protein? What does that even mean? To me, was like, when I said Midwest, it was like dairy. If you're not eating meat, it was like, okay, milk and cheese, here you go. So that really makes food really interesting. easy to fun to talk about when you're learning really what it is. Kristen Hicks-Roof: Well, and and to be able to really integrate that in your professional life. You know, you talked about your you know, family of doctors. We also have a family of many health professionals. And so I was kind of drawn to that of like just helping people. But I really got into nutrition because I was I saw that like the impact it could have. And it sounds like you did too. Like the impact of what you ate and what other people ate can impact. So Talk about your journey a little bit. Once you decided you wanted to become a dietitian, what you know, what would that what was that like? And then how did you kind of ultimately get to where you are today in public health? Emily: Perfect, so it's funny that you bring up being around just healthcare. so part of that was I was seeing, I was like, where's the prevention aspect of healthcare? My dad's a radiation oncologist, so he's cancer. And especially in the early 2000s, a lot of conversation was like, don't eat this, it causes cancer, don't do this. And I'd go to him and I'd be like, so I'm not supposed to do this? And he's like, no, there's so much more to it. And like, there's so much more, there's genetics, there's all these things. And so that, it was just like a storm of like all these things where things just like clicked, where I was like, okay, there is a food aspect in health and like in the prevention side. So that is really what made me really interested in public health, because it was like, how can we prevent all these chronic diseases that we're being told are preventable, but no one's talking about how to actually do it. And no one's talking about it in a way that like, means anything. Because you can say, okay, you shouldn't eat this, but like, what does that mean really? And so I, when I came to applying for schools, I knew I wanted to study nutrition. So I applied to like every school that had a nutrition program and just kind of saw where I got in. And I ended up getting into the University of Texas at Austin that had a really wonderful nutrition program that I completely fell in love with. had, at that time, they had like a public health track that you could do. So I did the nutrition public health. And then part of it too is you could also do like some like minors in classes in other schools. And so I took a few policy classes, which I just sort of kind of fell into. was involved with student government and I was like, let me see this like policy thing. So I was doing that in undergrad, know, learning a little bit about like what policy meant. and then studying the science of nutrition. And when it came to grad school, it was around the time where the academy was saying that you needed a master's degree. And so I ended up not doing the coordinated program, which UT still has. I ended up doing the DPD program so that I could apply to UT Health and do the dual master's in public health and dietetic internship, which I would say that program completely changed my life. It completely changed the way I thought about food. It was one of those programs that we did a lot of teaching kitchens. And so we were really in that food is medicine space. And so when I started there, we were like working in a kitchen. And it was amazing to just kind of see what it was like to talk about food and then put it on a plate and talk about it in a way that made sense. was like all of a sudden, all these conversations about like, you should eat more protein. now goes to like, I could see it on a plate, but I also see different foods that were proteins and different ways to make combinations and like, beans in a way that like, I'd never thought about including beans in like the foods that I would ever make at home. And so that was, so did that. And then through that program too, I, and undergrad too, I really, and something I really want to stress is like, if something, interests you and something kind of piques your interest, like talk to someone about it and like tell people your interest because you never know where you're gonna get. Like I ended up in undergrad, I ended up getting a fellow or it was like an internship at Whole Kids Foundation, which is the Whole Foods, yeah, which is like Whole Foods Foundation. I believe it might be under a different name now, but that was like we would give grants to like school gardens. So. Kristen Hicks-Roof: Mm-hmm. Emily: And that was just like, had been talking to like an older student in the nutrition department and she was like, I'm actually like, because I'm graduating, I think there's going to be this position open, like you should apply and like, I'll tell them to look out for your application. And I was like, just cause I was talking about like, I love kids and like, I love nutrition. And she was like, I'm going to put your name in. And so like, then I had this whole incredible experience working. or like a foundation that I really loved at such like a, you know, young age at that point. And then it really complimented what I did at UT Health, which was like, we had this garden and we were cooking. so I got to see sort of what it would look like on, like when you implement a garden, like what that looks like and the benefits of having a garden. that was just, it was just, just Kristen Hicks-Roof: So cool. Emily: talk to people and like, you never know where. you'll end up and then part of that story too was I was at UT Health and I had this amazing mentor, Deanna Holscher. She was actually our nutrition public health teacher. I think it was my first semester of grad school and she was talking about her work and so I sent her an email and I was like, love what you're doing. Do you take grad students? And I ended up being a grad, like a paid grad student for a project called Texas Research. God, ignore that. Texas RPC, which is Texas Research to Policy Collaborative. And so that really got my foot in the door in the policy world and the food space, which basically we were connecting Texas legislators to researchers in Texas so that they could help them write evidence-based bills. So it was Kristen Hicks-Roof: Love that. Emily: like making that connection. that was a really amazing just kind of way to see how state legislation works in a way that I've never been exposed to it. Kristen Hicks-Roof: Well and I loved how you talked even from the beginning of like talk about it and follow where your passions are. I think so often than not, we kind of go into like mainstream avenues, but we're really passionate about something, right? You're really passionate about food is medicine and communities and gardens and public health teaching. Yet we often don't follow that passion. We follow just the career trajectory, you know, and one of the things I give a lot of talks on is like Find your niche. And that niche can blend your policy, your I mean your your passion and your expertise and where the opportunity is. And you can do things in that niche. And you're a great example of that. I Emily: Good. Kristen Hicks-Roof: also have to say, I'm an Aggie. I didn't know you were a UT Austin. I almost shouldn't have had you on the show. I'm just kidding, Emily. Emily: I had done my research and I was like, but we're all friends. Kristen Hicks-Roof: No, we're we're all good. But I love you. I actually when I was pursuing doctoral programs, I actually had UT and AM both in my top, and the UT was in the Emily: No way! Kristen Hicks-Roof: the public health program because it was so ingrained in nutrition, and I just love that. So I think you got that experience, and I I I think that there's a lot of career opportunity to that, especially I loved how you gave advice on getting some you know, taking classes or doing some extracurriculars in other topics, whether it's business or marketing or curriculum development or policy, whatever you're interested in. what did that lead to and to where you are today? Emily: So I also want to give a quick shout out to Dr. McWhorter, who I know you had on earlier this year. He was also a huge player in UT Health, especially in the teaching kitchen space. And so I just, I really can't emphasize my love for my dual MPH dietetic internship. That program completely changed my life. And So with that being said, as I was finishing up my master's degree, I just sort of, and I kind of learned this through just talking to people, but it was like, I just started having conversations with anybody who would talk to me about anything. And so I will say one of the benefits about being in nutrition is that, and this is what you had mentioned earlier, it's like take classes in different avenues because Nutrition is a part of everything and like you can, I had no idea this, but like you can find a way to like pull nutrition into like any field, which is amazing, but also like the most overwhelming thing when you're graduating and you're like, what do I want to do? So I was told at that point, like you should get some clinical work. I had done a fellowship in the NICU. I loved it, but really hard to get a NICU position. And so I ended up applying and getting it. a job working private practice doing eating disorders. And while I was doing that, I was still working as a graduate student for Dr. Holscher. And then I was applying to jobs on the side doing policy work because I really felt like that was where my passion was. But I also loved talking to patients and really understanding like, like if you're going to make policy, like you should also know what people are thinking on the ground and like what are every day. people talking about and struggling with because I feel like sometimes like in the nutrition world, we forget that not everyone has the same education that we do. like, I even forget sometimes when I talk to like my family, where like they'll ask me like these nuanced nutrition questions like, shouldn't you know this? Like, come on. Kristen Hicks-Roof: Deal. Emily: But it's like we really sit in like such a unique position where we have all this knowledge. And so it was really great to have that. clinical experience and understand like, what is it like to like, especially like in the age of social media, like, what is it like to be a consumer in the age of social media and like, without nutrition education? So during that time, I then had some amazing conversations with professionals in the policy world. I, you know, reached out a lot to mentors that I had in grad school and during my dietetic internship, which is another reason I'll just say that. being a dietitian is amazing because you get real work experience and you get relationships with people that you don't always have access to. So while in my dietetic internship, I had done an internship at the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics, asked my mentor there, Liz Campbell, and I was like, please, connect me with anyone in the policy space. This is really where I wanna be. And so she helped me connect. to people in the government. And then there was a fellowship that opened up at the Department of Health and Human Services in their office of disease prevention and health promotion. And they took a risk on me and brought me in as a nutrition policy fellow where I was able to support the dietary guidelines for Americans in like the scientific report writing. So that was like full circle too because Deanna Holcher was on it. And so I was working back with someone who really helped me. with my career and then she was kind of able to work together in a professional space. then there too, was like, there was another team in the office working in food as medicine and they were putting on the HHS Food as Medicine Summit and I just sort of knocked on the door and I was like, I'm really interested in this space. Like I have experience in teaching kitchens. Like that is what changed kind of how I thought about food and how I really could talk about food. And I was like, I want to be involved in this space. Like, please, like I'll do coffee runs. I will like clean the floor. Like, just let me help you guys do anything in this space. And so I was able to kind of, that's how I was able to make the entryway into the food as medicine space. And my mentors there were just like two of like the most just like thoughtful humans who really made sure that like, I was able to like be in the room with real change makers and like, start to understand what it's like to work with other stakeholders and to work with private sectors and just understand that. And so through there, once again, just having conversations, talking about teaching kitchens, I was having a conversation with a woman at this Food is Medicine summit and I was like, I love teaching kitchens. I think they're great. And she was like, we wanna start one at the Children's Inn. Let me connect you. to the NIH because they're like the Office of Nutrition Research because they are talking about doing one. So that's how I got connected to my office now is just like a one-off conversation. I like this is what I love and through HHS we'd had conversations with the Office of Nutrition Research and they knew who I was and then we were able to, they really wanted to bring a dietitian onto their team. And so. I was able to kind of jump over to the NIH and help with their food is medicine initiative and work in a few other avenues, but really trying to bring in my clinical expertise that was really special. Kristen Hicks-Roof: You there were two like key themes that I picked up as you were talking. One, you gotta have tenacity to be able to go in, right? Like, I will do coffee runs. I will do whatever it takes. Like I wanna be involved. And I do think that that does award you opportunities, right? Like sometimes you you're persistent enough and you work really hard and there are opportunities there. And two, I thought it was also really interesting because this has happened to me as well. And I know many of my other colleagues in the nutrition space. Because we're in a way a small community, right? There's a hundred and ten thousand-ish dietitians in the United States, but really we're only two to three degrees of separation apart. And so you talk about like these mentors you were now like colleagues with in a way. And I've seen that in my own space where I'm like, you were my boss and now we're on a working group together. Or, you know, and so I d I think to me, one of the things that I've really picked up on is don't burn bridges. And really have professional Emily: Yes. Kristen Hicks-Roof: prov even if you disagree, which like we have a lot of disagreement in the nutrition world, which is okay, but it doesn't mean we wanna burn the bridge and have an angst or frustration Emily: Yeah. Kristen Hicks-Roof: within the profession. So I it sounds like you've felt the same. Emily: yeah, I'm like the biggest advocate of like don't burn bridges because you just never know when you're going to cross paths with someone, especially nutrition. It's like you never know when you're going have a meeting with someone or like anything. Like it's just, you just never know. I cannot, I think that is like, if I can give one takeaway from today, don't burn bridges and don't be afraid to ask people. to talk, like, you know, if they need help or to like talk to them about what they do, like, those are like my, I'd say my two biggest takeaways. It's like, yeah, don't, don't burn bridges, everyone. Just, you don't have to be everyone's best friend, but like, you can be kind. Kristen Hicks-Roof: Yeah. No, totally. Well, and I think just too about opening your network and just like getting to know people. I mean, that was one of the things that I was like that kind of fueled into creating this podcast is building networks because a lot of people say, you know, Emily, I really want to go into public health, but they don't know how to find you and they don't know how to find other people in public health. And so my goal was, well, what if we have dietitians in every niche and sector and it's like, you want to go into, you know, start your own consumer brand? Go talk with this person. Like at least bridge the connection. You know, like Wes McWater, you talked about, like, he's a good friend of mine. We've been been doing a health professional education for years together. But I was like, people want to go in food as medicine. And I love bring I love having people on the podcast where they're like, I want to go into this. Like, can you bring someone who has expertise with this area? So Emily, talk Emily: That's true. Kristen Hicks-Roof: to me. Like, what does a day-to-day look like for you in in what you do? Emily: So I'd say it's a lot of network building and a lot of network building and just like we do a lot of coordination. So making sure that nutrition really stays in the conversation at NIH and then also making sure that we kind of sit in a place that if people need nutrition support or like that we can talk about it and that we're there to provide it. So I'd say it's a lot of. relationship building internally. And then really just being like this towards nutrition research and understanding that there's a lot of nuance in this space and that it's really important to be good advocates and like really, you know, advocate for like the importance of it as well. So. Kristen Hicks-Roof: Well, yeah, and you talked too about like, and I I've seen this in similarity across other niches. So, like obviously your government, where you talked about how you wanna be the nutrition experts across many different teams and you wanna be the support, right, to really integrate nutrition. Same goes in food industry, right? You have people who wanna be that nutrition translator between product development and marketing, right? And so, like this theme is very consistent, but what's really interesting is It's challenging. I'm sure you've seen this too, because because we don't necessarily own a particular domain, because as you mentioned in the very beginning, nutrition is really everywhere. It's in health technology, it's in food, it's in medicine. So we don't almost own a singular domain. And so we have to work with all these stakeholders. I'm sure that's what you've seen too. Emily: Yeah, and especially we so we sit in the office of the director and so we're constantly working with all the other institutes and centers to like talk about nutrition in that way. And it's been interesting to see what institutes have been really big funders of nutrition and food as medicine. I'd say like NIMHD has been a big funder in NIDDK. So it's like, just understanding like where this interest is coming from and where the funding is coming from has been just very eye-opening and understanding where our champions are as well. Kristen Hicks-Roof: When you talk about funding, but on the same side of that is research and evidence. So, like, how does evidence and data fuel what you do in your day to day? Emily: So we, I'd say, are the big collectors of it, and we support it. But the NIH really is, the goal of the NIH is like really just collecting the data and doing research. We're not a policy branch, which I'd say is a big difference than being at HHS, which is. So it is an interesting line to be walking where we are like, the goal is like research and like, what comes after that is like, really not where we are supposed to be sitting. can, yeah, so it's, we Kristen Hicks-Roof: Well Emily: are collectors and understanders and synthesizers, I guess it would be a good way to say it. Yeah. Kristen Hicks-Roof: When translators, right? Where you're like, you want to translate the evidence of this is what this is saying. Ultimately it's someone else's domain to make a new policy or to interpret that for a dietary guidelines or whatever have you. But really, yeah, it's that s synthesis of the evidence and working with I'm sure you work with researchers and you know, teaching kitchens and other institutions, maybe hospital systems, to be able to curate that data, which then you can go and and inform. those other stakeholders. Emily: I think, yeah. Kristen Hicks-Roof: Yeah. So, you know, you've had, you've been awarded really cool opportunities, but clearly it's because you work your butt off and you're asking people all the time. So I'm going to give you kudos too. So, you know, between Emily: Thank you. Kristen Hicks-Roof: all your fellows and your graduate degree and kind of your experience too within government, like what's been your favorite or something you're most proud of so far? Emily: wow. Most favorite or most proud of? I would say something I I talked about a little bit, something I don't talk about enough is working at the Whole Kids Foundation. That was like, I know it's so long ago, but that was just so, seeing how a foundation works and seeing another way to support really important work was just really unique and special and seeing that. private organizations can have a really big impact. And that's something that I didn't quite understand until I started doing informational interviews, is like where dieticians can work and where people with a master's in public health can work. But there is a place for people in public health and nutrition in the private sector, which I really was not fully exposed to until after I graduated. And I was like, so trying to find a job. And I know kind of what I want to do, but. someone help me, but that was like, that was just a really great way to just understand another area. But, so probably that was really cool. I mean, my job now, I feel really fortunate to have and just get to understand and see nutrition in like a broader level. I know, I feel really lucky. It's hard to pick. I just. Kristen Hicks-Roof: When you're at such you're at such an intersection right now of like this is talked about as like right like the next frontier where there's more research and more financial incentives, more companies trying to get into it beyond just government, right? You have private sector as and public sector as well trying to get into that. So I think it's actually like a really good time of your passions led you to this. And, you know, sometimes people have asked me in my career, like, Did you just work hard or did you just get lucky? And I'm like, I think it's a mix of both. Like, right? Emily: 100 % a mix of both and I would say like It just you know, I wouldn't say like I necessarily Got to where I was Only because of hard work. I do think that there's a bit a little bit of luck involved in there, too. So But yeah, you just kind of have to I just say like put yourself out there and see what happens and you know when you see something like that interests you like you know, reach out to someone on LinkedIn and say like, hey, I saw that like, you do this or like you got to speak here. Like, how'd you get to do that? Where'd you get to do that? Who'd you speak to? Like, I just, there's just so many opportunities and I just, nutrition is just so cool. And I just feel really fortunate to be in this field. And I think something else I wanted to bring up too, that I think makes nutrition really amazing is I feel like a lot of my mentors have been women. And that's something that we talk about like, know, dietetics is majority women, but I think there's a real power in having that and having like a support system be like working moms and like women who like have been able to like move mountains in a way that you don't see in every field. And like this field has been majority women and like it still is. to me, that's like, it's so amazing to like, be surrounded by these really cool, just brilliant women all the time. Kristen Hicks-Roof: No, I totally attest to that. And actually when I was faculty at University of North Florida, you know, I was having I had young kids and it was like really trying. And both of my leaders at the time, Dr. Lori Wright and Dr. Andre A Arikawa, both of them have kids. And they were able to be like, Yeah, I get it. Like sometimes you you know, and that ultimately made us move back to Arizona because I was like, I need family support. And Lori was like, hundred percent. Like I moved back to Tampa, when I needed family support, and I was like, it's so validating versus sometimes nothing against men. Obviously, they have their own different expertise, but sometimes the situations are just different. So I see what you're saying. I do think that there is a layer there. And there's also a layer to continue to diversify our profession, right? You even talked about it Emily: We're in the universe now. Kristen Hicks-Roof: like your upbringing and being vegetarian really early. I think that probably gave you a very different lens than someone who was like, quote unquote, your standard Midwesterner, right? Who had like a different approach to dietary. Emily: Yeah, 100%. Kristen Hicks-Roof: so Emily, like what tips or suggestions would you have for someone who's interested in public health policy, you know, within the government, like any of those things? Emily: So I think something that's really helped me is like having a niche in this space. Like I wasn't just like, I'm public health, mold me into anything. I was able to come in and be like, I'm a dietician. I have this nutrition expertise, like use me, you know, put my mind to work. So I would recommend finding some niche, whether it's nutrition, it could be environment, it could be infrastructure, like do something that... sets you up a little bit different than other people applying. know, if you have global experience, like highlight that, like try to do something just like a little out of the box because I think that can go a really long way in the government. I would recommend to apply for fellowships. They're a great way to get your foot in the door. I'd say the biggest thing is, and I'd heard this and I was like, yeah, yeah, whatever. You got to get your foot in the door because once you build those relationships, and don't burn any bridges, but once you build those relationships, it's a lot easier to move and see where there's opportunities coming and be able to position yourself in a place where you are the best fit for that position. But that would be Kristen Hicks-Roof: Yeah. Emily: big. Kristen Hicks-Roof: Well, and you're right. Like once you kind of get your foot in the door, you are now networked with those who are gonna be hiring Emily: You Kristen Hicks-Roof: in the future. You know, and I think some dietitians, especially if they're thinking about career transitions, maybe they started in a different field, they want to get into it. They don't know how to get in. Have you seen anyone that you've worked with who've like kind of got into the policy space a little bit later, or how did they How could they be involved in policy if they didn't start, let's say, straight from undergrad or grad with fellows? Emily: Hmm, I think with fellowships, you, I would have conversations. A lot of times on postings, you'll see an email, send a cold email, ask them like, you know, what they're looking for. Is there a way to stand out, ask to have a conversation? Because even if it's not like their office, sometimes they can point you in a direction to someone that does like the government. We do talk a lot internally and so. We have like, you know, I'm always happy to be like, okay, my office doesn't have something, but like, I did hear that someone in this other office might have something coming soon. Like, I would reach out to them. like, so kind of utilize your network that way and making connections that way because you just, you know, those expertise and the people who are hiring know what they're looking for. And like, if you put your name out there, like you have no idea. what opportunities will come your way. Kristen Hicks-Roof: Well, and as we talked about earlier, like our profession, you're only two to three degrees of separation. Like everyone kind of knows everyone, right? Like that's been actually one of the funniest parts of having this podcast. People will be like, like I had someone the other day is like, How did you know this dietitian? Like, I ice skate with this dietitian. You know what I mean? And I was like, We didn't know we knew each other, but she was one of my former students, Danielle Fennelli, and it was just like It's cool because we Emily: Thank you. Kristen Hicks-Roof: all know each other through one way or another, right? Even if it's just like a small interaction. So I think you're right. Like build your network, reach out, don't hesitate to ask questions or get experience. So okay, Emily, my favorite question, if you had a crystal ball and you're in the food is medicine space. So you might have a unique angle, what do you think is coming next in nutrition? Emily: I'm going to think broadly here and say not just what's coming next in nutrition, but I hope and dream and like to see, I want to see more dietitians and more nutrition professionals in different sectors. Like get yourself on boards, get yourself on, you know, get yourself in the conversations, like be in the room. I know that's not quite like the crystal ball, but I do think that if Like nutrition is being talked about everywhere right now. And like, if you can have a seat at these tables, like, and position yourself as an expert, I think that can make a really big difference, like, especially in like the food is medicine movement. there are some organizations that really love dietitians and see, you know, the importance of it, but there's some that are not. And I think that if we continue to like put our names out there and say like we have this expertise and we can help you in all these reasons. Like there's gonna be no reason that like you can't be sitting at that table, sitting in that position that like might seem different. But it's just important that we're there because these conversations are going on with or without us. And we might as well be like, even with like the conversation with like, we didn't get into this, but like AI, like we should be in these conversations. Cause the fact is people are going. and talking to AI bots about their nutrition. I would love to see a dietician get involved with AI stuff. And if anyone is, I'd love to hear more because we have to be at the table because it's going on regardless. And we need to be part of these conversations. Kristen Hicks-Roof: I totally agree. Actually, when I was at ASN previous year, I met up with one of the posters was the Google dietitian talking about how she's building the algorithm for nutrition outputs, right? Depending on what people are seeing. And I was like, I love that. Like I'm I I eye to eye with you there, Emily. Like I think there is such an opportunity for dietitians to be in so many more spaces than we're already in. But really it takes that tenacity. It takes Dieticians going to health tech and to all these other industries and saying, Hey, here's why I'm a value add to your business. and I think that's really hard because remember, we talked about like we don't own anything. We're so interdisciplinary that sometimes it's a really hard pitch. but you've been Emily: it seems like. Kristen Hicks-Roof: I've seen it like so many of my guests. But one that always comes to mind is Carrie Call Kara Collier. She was like, I just started pitching every health tech company. She was like, I I started contracting and then I landed full time roles. And she was like, I just pitched them over and over and over. And it was like sometimes that's what it's gonna take to get the seat at the table. Emily: That's my manifestation crystal ball is dietitians like get get in the room like be in the room like we're like I said these conversations are going on nutrition is everywhere we got to be in the room Kristen Hicks-Roof: I love it. All right, Emily, thank you so much for coming on the show. Remember, if you like the podcast, you can go ahead and like, subscribe, leave a review. But most importantly, check out the next episode because every episode I bring out a different dietitian and nutrition expert to share their story and give you tips and advice on how to be successful.