Latest / Who Did What Now With Katie Charlwood / Featuring: Filmspotting Podcast | Fall Movie Preview and The Social Reckoning | #1085

Transcript

Featuring: Filmspotting Podcast | Fall Movie Preview and The Social Reckoning | #1085 · Who Did What Now With Katie Charlwood

• 0:21
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• 0:45
  Speaker 2: What kind of a show are you guys putting on
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: here today?
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: You're not interested in art?
• 0:49
  Speaker 3: No.
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: Well, look, we're going to do this thing.
• 0:51
  Speaker 3: We're going to have a conversation.
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: From Chicago, this is Film Spotting. I'm Josh Larson.
• 0:58
  Speaker 4: And I'm Adam Kempinar.
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: The final months of the movie year are full of
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: potential blockbusters. You've got Avengers Doomsday, Dune 3. There are
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: also prestige pictures from directors like David Fincher, Robert Eggers,
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: and Martin McDonough.
• 1:31
  Speaker 5: We consider it all in our 2026 fall movie preview draft,
• 1:36
  Speaker 5: plus Aaron Sorkin's The Social Reckoning. That and more ahead
• 1:40
  Speaker 5: on FilmSpotting.com. Welcome to Film Spotting. Josh, our producer Sam
• 1:56
  Speaker 5: does such a nice job getting us ready for these shows,
• 2:00
  Speaker 5: putting our scripts together, giving us bullet points, talking points.
• 2:05
  Speaker 5: The problem is sometimes he gives us talking points to
• 2:08
  Speaker 5: reference that are smarter than anything that may actually come up,
• 2:12
  Speaker 5: at least in my side of the review. Here I
• 2:15
  Speaker 5: have when David Fincher's The Social Network came to theaters
• 2:18
  Speaker 5: in the fall of 2010, it seemed to arrive at
• 2:20
  Speaker 5: exactly the right time. Is the Fincher-less social reckoning too late?
• 2:25
  Speaker 4: We'll discuss. We won't discuss. At least I won't discuss.
• 2:29
  Speaker 5: I don't have anything that profound to say about the
• 2:32
  Speaker 5: social reckoning, though I do have a fair amount to
• 2:34
  Speaker 5: say about the film.
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: It's a great question. I will attempt to answer it.
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: In a way, I feel like it was answered when
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: this project was announced, I remember feeling like it was
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: a little too late at that point, but the finished product,
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: that's an entirely different thing. So we'll see.
• 2:51
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: We'll see what we make of that.
• 2:53
  Speaker 5: Come to that review to hear Josh having profound remarks later.
• 2:58
  Speaker 3: Wow.
• 2:58
  Speaker 4: Pressure.
• 2:59
  Speaker 5: We remind you that film spotting is a video podcast.
• 3:02
  Speaker 5: You can watch us talk over at youtube.com slash film spotting.
• 3:07
  Speaker 5: First up, It's our fall movie preview. A little later
• 3:11
  Speaker 5: than normal, that does give us the chance, Josh, to
• 3:14
  Speaker 5: do something we don't normally do. We like to restrict
• 3:17
  Speaker 5: ourselves a little bit, typically, and we would only go
• 3:20
  Speaker 5: up to Thanksgiving, even though that's atypical for fall movie
• 3:24
  Speaker 5: previews that usually go through the end of the year.
• 3:27
  Speaker 5: We would sometimes do a separate holiday movie preview. See,
• 3:31
  Speaker 5: we would milk it for two different lists.
• 3:33
  Speaker 4: We were smarter back then. Yeah, we were smarter then, apparently.
• 3:37
  Speaker 3: And.
• 3:38
  Speaker 5: This time, since it's a little later, we're going to
• 3:41
  Speaker 5: do the fall movie preview that does allow us to
• 3:44
  Speaker 5: look through December. That's how we are approaching it. But
• 3:48
  Speaker 5: we're going to do it as a draft because we
• 3:51
  Speaker 5: have found that we enjoy doing the previews this way.
• 3:55
  Speaker 5: It allows us to restrict ourselves to five picks each.
• 4:00
  Speaker 5: We get 10 titles in there, and we know we're
• 4:04
  Speaker 5: not going to have any overlap.
• 4:05
  Speaker 4: That's the best part.
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: We're not going to have any overlap. Will we have
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: much fighting over titles? Yes. I think that will be interesting.
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: I'm not expecting much, but we'll see. You never know.
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: We both might surprise each other.
• 4:19
  Speaker 4: You never know.
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: I think we're both interested in different films over the
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: next couple of months. I agree.
• 4:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 4:25
  Speaker 5: Usually in these drafts, there is a lot, maybe too
• 4:28
  Speaker 5: much strategizing. We're worried too much about... when we can
• 4:33
  Speaker 5: take a certain film and how much fun we might
• 4:36
  Speaker 5: have ruining the other person's list. And you're right, this
• 4:39
  Speaker 5: time there may be only one or two titles where
• 4:43
  Speaker 5: I can really see that coming into play.
• 4:46
  Speaker 4: I do know that.
• 4:48
  Speaker 5: I took a couple titles on my list and bumped
• 4:51
  Speaker 5: them up slightly higher because I thought I may need
• 4:55
  Speaker 5: to get to these sooner. There may be a chance
• 4:58
  Speaker 5: Josh will take them, but And that's really not so
• 5:00
  Speaker 5: much because I think with a fall movie preview, there's
• 5:03
  Speaker 5: a case of winning this draft. I don't know if
• 5:06
  Speaker 5: we'll even put together a poll. Josh, it's really more
• 5:08
  Speaker 5: about just getting the films you want.
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: Come on, Adam. It's always about winning.
• 5:13
  Speaker 5: I wasn't going to say that, but you said it.
• 5:16
  Speaker 5: So let's go ahead and dig in. You do get
• 5:19
  Speaker 5: to pick first. We don't have any elaborate questions. We
• 5:22
  Speaker 5: don't rely on Quizmaster Thomas Todd for this with these
• 5:25
  Speaker 5: drafts with our previews.
• 5:27
  Speaker 4: We do just... Alternate.
• 5:29
  Speaker 5: And I had the first pick back when we did
• 5:31
  Speaker 5: our year preview in January. At that time, I'll remind listeners,
• 5:36
  Speaker 5: I had the first pick and I chose a little
• 5:38
  Speaker 5: film called The Odyssey from Christopher Nolan. You went with
• 5:43
  Speaker 5: the film that would have been your first choice anyway,
• 5:45
  Speaker 5: if you had the first pick, and that was Steven
• 5:48
  Speaker 5: Spielberg's Disclosure Day. So neither of those films, yeah, We'll
• 5:56
  Speaker 5: hear two new titles from each of us here off
• 5:59
  Speaker 5: the top. It is your pick. Why is your first
• 6:03
  Speaker 5: choice Clara and the Sun?
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: Not Clara and the Sun.
• 6:08
  Speaker 6: No?
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: Unfortunately. Trying to pressure me, throw me off the path, perhaps.
• 6:13
  Speaker 4: You want to choose it.
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Not going to happen. I think I will employ
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: a little bit of strategy, though.
• 6:20
  Speaker 4: Dang it.
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: As you were suggesting. I don't think this is going
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: to hurt anyone. It's more about protecting one that I
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: really wanted to get, have among my picks. Would it
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: be my first pick if I didn't have to worry
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: about that? Maybe not. I'm excited about it. It's Behemoth. Okay.
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: Behemoth with an exclamation point, I should specify. You have
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: to say it that way, Josh. We always want to
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: honor title punctuation here on Film Spotting. So Behemoth, I
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: will be seeing soon as part of the Chicago International
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: Film Festival. excited to get that chance. And here is
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: a bit from the festival description. A gifted cellist played
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: by Pedro Pascal returns home to Los Angeles after 20
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: years on the road. As he works on a series
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: of film projects, the cues trigger flashbacks that tell us
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: why he stayed away so long and why he's really
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: come back. Utilizing an unprecedented nine composers, Behemoth is a
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: love letter to movie scoring and the dizzying power music
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: holds on our memories and imagination. So I love that
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: little formal intrigue going on with the score, a movie
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: about scores, um, even more enticing maybe than all that description.
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: The writer director here is Tony Gilroy, who of course
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: made the excellent Michael Clayton. Also the quite excellent, I
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: will say Star Wars series and, or though I can
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: only vouch for season one. I think Before season two
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: came out, we were moving, so canceled Disney +, haven't
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: gotten back on board, have not been able to see
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: and or season two, have only heard good things and
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: I believe them. So yeah, Tony Gilroy, someone always to watch.
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: And Pascal, of course, we are big fans of. The
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: cast also includes Olivia Wilde, Ava Victor, and Will Arnett.
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: Love that mix. And if you can't see it at
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: the Chicago Fest, it's playing October 25. This will be
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: in theaters on December 4. That's Behemoth.
• 8:20
  Speaker 5: Very much a movie I am eager to see. You
• 8:23
  Speaker 5: know that you're in my lane there. You're on my
• 8:26
  Speaker 5: corner with that subject matter. So I understand why you
• 8:29
  Speaker 5: might think to grab that one, but it wasn't near
• 8:34
  Speaker 5: the top of my list. And that's because of the director, actually,
• 8:37
  Speaker 5: Tony Gilroy. And it's not because I'm not a fan necessarily,
• 8:41
  Speaker 5: but I don't have the Andor background, so that's not
• 8:45
  Speaker 5: bringing any extra credentials to the table with Gilroy. I
• 8:51
  Speaker 5: did recently though, and this happens, I'm sure it happens
• 8:54
  Speaker 5: to anyone out there who regularly is doom scrolling and
• 8:58
  Speaker 5: they're on Instagram reels or TikTok. Just last week, Josh,
• 9:02
  Speaker 5: that scene from the end of Michael Clayton, that scene
• 9:07
  Speaker 5: with And who knows why it was popping back up
• 9:09
  Speaker 5: in our feeds. But that scene with Tilda Swinton and Clooney,
• 9:14
  Speaker 5: it showed up in my feed. And when it does,
• 9:16
  Speaker 5: and it's been a long time since I saw it last,
• 9:19
  Speaker 5: but that was the last context in which I saw
• 9:22
  Speaker 5: it was doom scrolling. Every time it's on, you have
• 9:27
  Speaker 5: to watch the entire thing, no matter what you're doing.
• 9:29
  Speaker 4: It is that riveting.
• 9:31
  Speaker 5: And I've said this before about Michael Clayton, a movie
• 9:34
  Speaker 5: that I only saw that time back in 2007 when
• 9:36
  Speaker 5: it came out. I did not at that time think
• 9:40
  Speaker 5: it was one of the best films of 2007, one
• 9:43
  Speaker 5: of our best movie years ever. I know many other
• 9:46
  Speaker 5: critics did think it was. I am now inclined to
• 9:52
  Speaker 5: believe that I probably got that movie wrong. But I'm
• 9:54
  Speaker 5: saying this all really just to get to the point
• 9:58
  Speaker 5: that watching that scene and reflecting on Michael Clayton, I
• 10:03
  Speaker 5: do wonder, Josh, if it's one of those films, if
• 10:06
  Speaker 5: not now, Five, ten years from now, we may really
• 10:10
  Speaker 5: look back and say, man, that movie nailed it. How
• 10:15
  Speaker 5: prescient was that film?
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: Oh, for sure.
• 10:17
  Speaker 4: I think it has a reputation for sure.
• 10:19
  Speaker 5: It may, in terms of diagnosing our current condition, it,
• 10:24
  Speaker 5: it nailed it. So Gilroy is, is a filmmaker I
• 10:28
  Speaker 5: probably should give more respect to. And I like your
• 10:32
  Speaker 5: choice of Behemoth.
• 10:33
  Speaker 4: I'm glad you're going to get Behemoth. Behemoth.
• 10:36
  Speaker 5: Is that ecstatic enough? I love that you're going to
• 10:38
  Speaker 5: get a chance to see that. at the Chicago Film Festival,
• 10:42
  Speaker 5: which I will also be in attendance for this weekend.
• 10:46
  Speaker 5: I get to come back with some of my film
• 10:47
  Speaker 5: criticism students from the University of Iowa. So we may
• 10:51
  Speaker 5: have a Josh Larson sighting there.
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: It will be... Let's do it.
• 10:54
  Speaker 4: It will be exciting. Okay. My first pick, the second
• 10:59
  Speaker 4: pick overall. Huh.
• 11:03
  Speaker 5: I may not need to choose this first because... I
• 11:10
  Speaker 5: don't think you're going to pick it.
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: Hmm.
• 11:14
  Speaker 5: This is so hard. See, now I'm talking myself out
• 11:17
  Speaker 5: of it. I'm really talking myself out of it and
• 11:20
  Speaker 5: not sure what to do.
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: I don't think you have to overthink things from this
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: point on.
• 11:25
  Speaker 4: I might though. I might. Cause you, you could go.
• 11:30
  Speaker 5: If I don't get my second choice, I'm going to
• 11:32
  Speaker 5: be very upset, but I'll, I'll stick with it. I
• 11:36
  Speaker 5: am going to go with a film that I've already
• 11:38
  Speaker 5: mentioned in passing that a few different times over the
• 11:42
  Speaker 5: course of the past several weeks here on film spotting.
• 11:45
  Speaker 5: And it is a film that is coming out December 11th.
• 11:49
  Speaker 5: I'm going to keep with your meta theme here, Josh,
• 11:52
  Speaker 5: your performance theme. I'm going to go with Jesse Eisenberg's,
• 11:57
  Speaker 5: the debut December 11th.
• 12:00
  Speaker 4: It comes out.
• 12:01
  Speaker 5: This is his follow-up to a real pain. It stars
• 12:06
  Speaker 5: Julianne Moore, who yes, is an Oscar winner. She plays
• 12:10
  Speaker 5: a housewife who decides to try out for a community play.
• 12:16
  Speaker 5: She wants to at least attempt to be an actress.
• 12:21
  Speaker 5: Paul Giamatti plays the hard-nosed director that is going to
• 12:29
  Speaker 5: bring this incredible performance out of her.
• 12:32
  Speaker 6: I knocked you off the goddamn wall and you are
• 12:34
  Speaker 6: lying in pieces all over the ground. But we are
• 12:40
  Speaker 6: going to put Humpty Dumpty back together again. And Mona,
• 12:43
  Speaker 6: when we do that, you are going to be dynamite, baby.
• 12:49
  Speaker 5: We try to avoid trailers, but with these previews, I
• 12:53
  Speaker 5: like to get some sense if a trailer is out.
• 12:55
  Speaker 5: With these films, that's not always true. This movie does
• 12:58
  Speaker 5: have a trailer out. I'll sometimes watch at least a
• 13:01
  Speaker 5: little bit to get a sense of the film. And
• 13:04
  Speaker 5: it's really a case where he seems to be an
• 13:09
  Speaker 5: aggressive director, but one who wants what's best for the play.
• 13:15
  Speaker 5: And it seems what's best for her and her performance.
• 13:19
  Speaker 5: And if that does mean pushing her to a little
• 13:22
  Speaker 5: bit of a breaking point, then that's entirely fine. But
• 13:25
  Speaker 5: here is where the trailer, it had me, Josh, where
• 13:28
  Speaker 5: I knew that this movie I already wanted to see
• 13:31
  Speaker 5: very badly. I knew I had to see it. There's
• 13:34
  Speaker 5: a point where I think as she's considering trying out,
• 13:38
  Speaker 5: someone says about Giamatti's character, he's basically the biggest name
• 13:43
  Speaker 5: in New Jersey community theater. So he's kind of a
• 13:47
  Speaker 5: real life, with no parody aspect, he's kind of a
• 13:51
  Speaker 5: real life Corky St.
• 13:52
  Speaker 4: Clay, right? From Waiting for Guffman.
• 13:55
  Speaker 5: And there's also a line in the trailer where Giamatti,
• 13:58
  Speaker 5: and we have Giamatti and Moore, just two of our
• 14:01
  Speaker 5: greatest living actors in this movie. There's a point where
• 14:05
  Speaker 5: he gets to say, to Moore's character, Mona, during rehearsals,
• 14:11
  Speaker 5: every single thing you are doing is not working. And
• 14:15
  Speaker 5: I have to imagine for Giamatti, that allowed him to
• 14:19
  Speaker 5: exercise a few demons, right, of past plays and past
• 14:23
  Speaker 5: filmmakers that he has worked with, or past theater directors
• 14:27
  Speaker 5: that he has worked with, maybe both. I referenced the applause,
• 14:32
  Speaker 5: the response, the vociferous response that this movie got when
• 14:37
  Speaker 5: it played Toronto, but I'll actually quote what that response was.
• 14:41
  Speaker 5: I'll give you a true sense of it here. This
• 14:43
  Speaker 5: is from torontolife.com. The headline is, should we just give
• 14:47
  Speaker 5: Julianne Moore the Oscar now?
• 14:49
  Speaker 4: So it's, it's tough.
• 14:50
  Speaker 5: I'm already coming in with these types of expectations, right?
• 14:52
  Speaker 5: I think most people are. And the sub head is
• 14:55
  Speaker 5: hold your applause, hold your applause, question mark.
• 14:58
  Speaker 4: Oh, hell no.
• 14:59
  Speaker 5: And this is the first graph. At a critic screening
• 15:01
  Speaker 5: earlier this week, Moore's performance opposite Paul Giamatti in one
• 15:04
  Speaker 5: particularly hilarious scene was so good that the room spontaneously
• 15:09
  Speaker 5: broke into applause. Longtime film critic Richard Krauss tweeted that
• 15:12
  Speaker 5: he'd never witnessed that kind of response in all his
• 15:14
  Speaker 5: years reviewing movies. So one thing I'm not totally clear
• 15:17
  Speaker 5: on is I think I said it's an audition scene.
• 15:21
  Speaker 5: And I referenced that in relation to Mulholland Drive and
• 15:24
  Speaker 5: the great audition scene there that we... We have from
• 15:27
  Speaker 5: Naomi Watts. I don't know that it's an audition scene.
• 15:29
  Speaker 5: It might actually be a rehearsal scene or a performance scene.
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: I'm not sure.
• 15:36
  Speaker 5: Either way, it's a performance within a performance, which that
• 15:40
  Speaker 5: Naomi Watts scene, of course, also is. And I'm dying to.
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: See the debut. Yeah, excited about this one. Just to
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: clarify for the listeners, so I haven't seen the debut.
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: That's why your strategy here makes sense. Your next pick
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: is the one I've seen, I'm assuming. But yeah, that
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: one was a high contender for me as well. My
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: number two, I think I'm pretty safe from here on
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: out now that these aren't movies. Not that these are
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: movies you're not interested in. I just think you probably
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: have other priorities. And this one I grabbed, I think,
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: at the very end of our preview for the year.
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: I was that high on it, that excited about it.
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: I didn't know this existed until we started doing that research.
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: Because I had forgotten, not forgotten, but maybe had thought
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: Brad Bird was done making animated movies. He did make
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: 2018's The Incredibles 2. I realized that. But previous to that,
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: he'd been doing live action. He made Tomorrowland. He made
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: Mission Impossible Ghost Protocol. Well, we are getting a new
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: animated film from Brad Bird in 2026. It's called Ray Gunn, G-U-N-N.
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: And yeah, I'll take it here too. Off chance.
• 16:50
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: You know, you might want to throw this in the
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: mix of yours.
• 16:53
  Speaker 4: I definitely considered it. Considered it, Josh.
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: There you go.
• 16:55
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: I mean, you've got the guy who made The Iron Giant,
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: The Incredibles, Ratatouille back in this format. It follows the
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: last human private detective in a futuristic world with aliens.
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: So count me in for that storyline. And yeah, this
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: has been originated by Bird. He wrote the screenplay with
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: Matthew Robbins. Voice cast here, Sam Rockwell, Scarlett Johansson, Tom Waits.
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: You know, photos are like this business.
• 17:24
  Speaker 4: It's all about the light and the dark and.
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: All the lovely shades of gray in between. Great actors,
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: but also great voices. It's nice to have both when
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: you're doing an animated film, so I like that cast
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: as well. This is a Netflix film. Thankfully, thankfully, it
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: will be in theaters before it hits Netflix, so Catch
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: it December 4 in theaters. I'm not sure how long
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: they will have it there. Then it'll hit streaming and
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: be on Netflix December 18. So that's Ray Gunn, G-U-N-N.
• 18:01
  Speaker 5: As I said, one I considered because I am curious
• 18:04
  Speaker 5: about whatever Brad Bird is going to do next. And
• 18:08
  Speaker 5: you had already put it on our radar, as you
• 18:10
  Speaker 5: noted as well, picking it earlier in the year. My
• 18:15
  Speaker 5: next pick is one that is in our poll question
• 18:20
  Speaker 5: where we asked listeners to weigh in with their ranking
• 18:24
  Speaker 5: of the fall movies that they're most looking forward to.
• 18:26
  Speaker 5: We'll have to see how it fared. And it's possible
• 18:32
  Speaker 5: you would pick it. We'll see how deep we have
• 18:34
  Speaker 5: to go in this draft. But as I said, when
• 18:37
  Speaker 5: we were going through the list of options for the poll,
• 18:41
  Speaker 5: I know that I'm way more excited about this film
• 18:44
  Speaker 5: than you are. And although you certainly respect this director
• 18:47
  Speaker 5: in plenty of his films. I'm more of a David
• 18:50
  Speaker 5: Fincher head, I think, than you are. And I think
• 18:53
  Speaker 5: I'm probably more enamored with this character and the movie
• 18:59
  Speaker 5: where we were introduced to him than you are as well.
• 19:02
  Speaker 5: The character being Brad Pitt's Cliff Booth from Quentin Tarantino's
• 19:08
  Speaker 5: Once Upon a Time in Hollywood. Yes, I am going
• 19:11
  Speaker 5: with the further misadventures of Cliff Booth, It is in
• 19:15
  Speaker 5: IMAX theaters November 25th. I wish that meant something to me.
• 19:19
  Speaker 5: I wish I could get close to an IMAX theater,
• 19:22
  Speaker 5: a true IMAX theater anyway. But then it is streaming
• 19:26
  Speaker 5: on Netflix a month later. You have to wait until
• 19:29
  Speaker 5: December 23rd to see it streaming. It was the fifth
• 19:33
  Speaker 5: overall pick back in January when we did our 2026 preview.
• 19:38
  Speaker 5: So I'm sticking with it here at fourth overall.
• 19:42
  Speaker 4: And I think.
• 19:43
  Speaker 5: For those of us, even if you didn't love Once
• 19:46
  Speaker 5: Upon a Time in Hollywood, and I think generally it
• 19:49
  Speaker 5: was a well-regarded film, but even if you didn't love it,
• 19:54
  Speaker 5: there was a lot of affection for Brad Pitt's performance
• 19:57
  Speaker 5: and for that character, Cliff Booth.
• 20:01
  Speaker 4: And one of the great.
• 20:04
  Speaker 5: Scenes in that movie was watching, just watching Pitt drive
• 20:10
  Speaker 5: through Hollywood. And guess what you see in the trailer
• 20:14
  Speaker 5: for The Further Misadventures of Cliff Booth? A lot of
• 20:17
  Speaker 5: Brad Pitt driving through Hollywood.
• 20:19
  Speaker 4: You know what? I'll take that.
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: I lost count of how many jokers I killed on TV.
• 20:24
  Speaker 4: But you, you actually killed people.
• 20:26
  Speaker 6: That's just saying what it's like to kill someone with
• 20:28
  Speaker 6: a knife.
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: Charlie finally tells you what he wants from you and
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: all of a sudden he needs a briefcase full of cash?
• 20:35
  Speaker 4: Whatever it is you're thinking, it's not what.
• 20:39
  Speaker 3: You think.
• 20:40
  Speaker 5: What you would expect from Fincher 2, it looks amazing, Josh.
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: Sure.
• 20:45
  Speaker 5: It just looks, of course, as meticulously shot and intentionally
• 20:51
  Speaker 5: shot as you would expect from Fincher. Whether any of
• 20:55
  Speaker 5: us thought, oh, there will obviously be a prequel, a
• 20:58
  Speaker 5: sequel or a prequel to this, you knew, you knew, well,
• 21:03
  Speaker 5: the movie alludes to it too, very famously or infamously,
• 21:07
  Speaker 5: you knew there was an entire story there. The backstory
• 21:12
  Speaker 5: on Cliff Booth that was fascinating. And so we're going
• 21:16
  Speaker 5: to get that. The cast too here. I'm looking at
• 21:21
  Speaker 5: some of the names. Not only do you get Scott Conn,
• 21:24
  Speaker 5: but you get James Conn. So casting some of these
• 21:28
  Speaker 5: Hollywood legends James Caan, Peter Weller is in the film.
• 21:34
  Speaker 5: I love a character actor, a great that guy like
• 21:38
  Speaker 5: Holt McElhaney. Timothy Oliphant is one of those guys I
• 21:42
  Speaker 5: love seeing turn up in anything. Carla Gugino. And then
• 21:47
  Speaker 5: Yaya Abdul-Mateen II as well is a face that I've
• 21:52
  Speaker 5: enjoyed in a few recent things. So you put all
• 21:56
  Speaker 5: of those faces together with Elizabeth Debicki as well. And
• 22:00
  Speaker 5: Brad Pitt is Booth. I did watch the trailer, the
• 22:03
  Speaker 5: full trailer today, and I was in. I knew that
• 22:08
  Speaker 5: this was the extension, though a prequel, it was the
• 22:12
  Speaker 5: extension of Once Upon a Time in Hollywood that I
• 22:15
  Speaker 5: was completely ready for.
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: It's going to be interesting how Fincher manages, or if
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: he even chooses to manage, to capture some sense of
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: that tone that is distinctly Tarantino, distinctly to that film,
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: the vision of Hollywood that that movie wanted to capture,
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: because it's not sunny, obviously, given what happens, but it's
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: sunnier than I associate with Fincher. Yes. So, yeah, that's, again,
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: that's not to say he can't do it, or maybe
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: he's choosing to go in a completely different direction.
• 22:50
  Speaker 4: It doesn't look sunny from the trailer.
• 22:53
  Speaker 5: Okay. I will tell you that. Neither in how it's
• 22:55
  Speaker 5: shot or in overall tone and demeanor.
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: Which would match Fincher more, and so maybe that makes sense. Yeah,
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: for me, this is sort of in the curiosity category.
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: I definitely want to see how this comes about because
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: just the origin story is so intriguing. And actually, I'm
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: happy to be the Tarantino skeptic, but once upon a
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: time in Hollywood, I have it ranked as My third
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: favorite of his. I thought that was a later effort
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: that worked almost entirely for me, which is not always
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: the case with him. So yeah, a lot of intriguing
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: elements when it comes to this one. But yeah, that's
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: okay if it's on your list for me. My third
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: pick then is Godzilla minus Zero. And if I make
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: it through the next minute or two, with these titles
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: correct and not saying minus another number for this one
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: and the previous one. And I should get some sort
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: of award, but Godzilla minus zero is the new film.
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: It is a sequel to Godzilla minus one. That was 2023.
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: Really wonderful. Total surprise to me. That was not on
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: my radar. And I remember we got to the end
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: of that year. And it came out and everyone was
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: raving about it. I am quite partial to Godzilla. So
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: I had to check it out and didn't make my
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: top 10, but it made my top 15. So I
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: quite enjoyed Godzilla minus one. And now lots of reasons
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: to be excited about this sequel. It has the dragon-like
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: monster King Ghidorah supposed to appear in this. Filmed for IMAX.
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: Makes sense to have a Godzilla movie in IMAX. Mostly, though,
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: looking into it a little bit, I'm happy the main
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: character from the first film, Koichi, this kamikaze pilot who
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: abandons his mission at the very beginning of it, he's back.
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: That character is back. And I'm happy about that because
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: Godzilla Minus One was a Godzilla movie in all the
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: best ways, but also rooted in Koichi's story. It was
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: very human as well. It was very much about guilt
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: and and Moss, and Mourning. So, you know, not unlike
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: the Godzilla of Godzilla movies, the 1954 original. It had
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: measures of that same pathos, which is maybe what I
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: liked about it best. So I'm hoping that Godzilla Minus Zero,
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: set in post-war Japan, is going to pick up on
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: some of those threads as well. This one will be
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: out on November 6th.
• 25:31
  Speaker 5: I am looking forward to Godzilla Minus Zero as well.
• 25:34
  Speaker 5: A fan of Godzilla, Minus one for all the reasons
• 25:37
  Speaker 5: that you mentioned. So we're in great territory so far.
• 25:41
  Speaker 5: Five picks, five movies that I am eager to see.
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: Adam, every movie deserves to be seen on the big screen, right?
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: We both agree on that. But there are some movies
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: and some movie characters, it would just be rude to
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: encounter them on a small screen.
• 25:59
  Speaker 4: I know where you're going.
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: I think like Godzilla falls into this category. So a
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: movie coming up in November, Godzilla minus zero that we're
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: both anticipating. Come on. Deserves a big screen. Even whale
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: fall out now, you're going to have a movie about
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: a sperm whale. You're not watching that at home. You've
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: got to get to the theater for something like whale fall,
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: whether you want to see whale fall or Godzilla minus
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: zero or both of them. You could go to one
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: of those movies and see it for free with Regal Unlimited.
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: Regal Unlimited is the all-you-can-watch movie subscription pass that pays
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: for itself in just two visits. And right now, Regal
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: is offering film spotting listeners endless movies for less. If
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: you sign up for Regal Unlimited, be sure to use
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: code FILMSPOT26, and then you're going to get 15% off.
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: Regal Unlimited is the only truly limitless movie subscription pass
• 26:55
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• 26:58
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• 27:02
  Speaker 1: you won't just save money on tickets. You're going to
• 27:05
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• 27:10
  Speaker 1: Sign up now in the Regal app or at the
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: link in our description and use that code FILMSPOT26 to
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: receive your discount.
• 27:18
  Speaker 5: Before we get to the back half of our draft though, Josh,
• 27:22
  Speaker 5: why don't we pause? Let's take a moment. to thank
• 27:26
  Speaker 5: our biggest supporters, members of the FilmSpotting family.
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: And it's true. They are our biggest supporters. They are
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: our largest source of support for the show. Allow us
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: to keep doing what we've been doing for 20 years.
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: So we want to thank Family Plus members, Robert, and
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: I have two choices here, Adam. Tell me which way
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: I should go for Robert here from Kelowna, Illinois. Rubinate
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: or Rubinate?
• 27:50
  Speaker 4: Yeah, well... Please do.
• 27:52
  Speaker 5: Please do write in and tell us so we can
• 27:54
  Speaker 5: get it right for the future. But I'm going to
• 27:56
  Speaker 5: say Robert Rubinati.
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: Okay. Thank you, Robert. Again, he's in Kelowna, Illinois. And
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: we also want to thank Family Plus member as well,
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: Ken Link, who's in Flagstaff, Arizona. Now, Robert writes that
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: he's been listening for years. Massacre Theater is his favorite segment.
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: How about that, Adam? You love to hear it.
• 28:17
  Speaker 4: I do love to hear it.
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: All those in the film Spotting Pantheon. And he has
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: Friedkin's Sorcerer, which just came up. It was just covered
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: on The Next Picture Show. They paired Sorcerer with The Wait.
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: Robert's favorite book about movies or movie making, a little
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: more Tarantino talk here, Tarantino's Cinema Speculation.
• 28:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 28:42
  Speaker 5: I may come to regret this, Josh, but I'm throwing
• 28:44
  Speaker 5: out there now to producer Sam that when he chooses these,
• 28:49
  Speaker 5: he may decide... to send to you and only you
• 28:55
  Speaker 5: the locations of these listeners, because Robert is a name
• 29:00
  Speaker 5: that's new to me. If he has ever written into
• 29:03
  Speaker 5: film spotting before, I don't recall that.
• 29:06
  Speaker 4: But Ken Link.
• 29:07
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: Flagstaff comes up right away in your head, right?
• 29:10
  Speaker 4: I know immediately.
• 29:11
  Speaker 5: If you had just said Ken Link, I would have
• 29:13
  Speaker 5: said Flagstaff, Arizona. And there are hundreds of those that
• 29:18
  Speaker 5: somehow my brain has managed to retain over 20 years
• 29:21
  Speaker 5: of doing the show. And it could be a fun
• 29:23
  Speaker 5: little game to see if I can place where some
• 29:25
  Speaker 5: of these listeners are from. Again, I may come to
• 29:27
  Speaker 5: regret it because I can barely remember anything these days,
• 29:32
  Speaker 5: but some of these locations do stick.
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: You either have to start doing it now before things fade,
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: or these are the things you'll retain to your last hours.
• 29:41
  Speaker 4: And you'll just, you'll shout out Ken Link, Flagstaff, Arizona.
• 29:43
  Speaker 3: That's it.
• 29:44
  Speaker 5: And your family will be looking around like, what's this
• 29:48
  Speaker 5: guy doing? It's dad just losing his mind again.
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: The brain of the brain will snap to it like that.
• 29:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 29:55
  Speaker 5: Well, here is Ken Link from Flagstaff. I looked up
• 29:57
  Speaker 5: movie podcasts 18 years ago.
• 29:59
  Speaker 4: There you go.
• 30:00
  Speaker 5: When I got my first digital music player. Can't believe
• 30:03
  Speaker 5: I got the best one on my first try.
• 30:05
  Speaker 4: Thanks, Ken.
• 30:05
  Speaker 5: Favorite film spotting review. Your analysis of The Archers, A
• 30:08
  Speaker 5: Matter of Life and Death, opened me up to filmmakers
• 30:11
  Speaker 5: of whom I'd never previously heard. It was not the
• 30:13
  Speaker 5: last time you would do so. A movie Ken credits
• 30:16
  Speaker 5: for becoming a cinephile. He says the third man. And
• 30:20
  Speaker 5: if you have never seen The Third Man or if
• 30:22
  Speaker 5: you haven't seen it in a long time, which is
• 30:24
  Speaker 5: the case for me, I encourage you to do some
• 30:28
  Speaker 5: homework because coming the first Monday in November, it's Noirvember.
• 30:34
  Speaker 5: And to celebrate Noirvember, our movie deathmatch with Chris Klemek
• 30:40
  Speaker 5: is an Orson Welles noir throwdown. An Orson Welles baddie
• 30:46
  Speaker 5: noir throwdown. It's the third man.
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: I know where you're going.
• 30:50
  Speaker 4: Versus Touch of Evil.
• 30:52
  Speaker 3: Ooh.
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah. That's tough.
• 30:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 30:54
  Speaker 5: And to defend Touch of Evil is IndieWire's Ann Thompson,
• 31:00
  Speaker 5: who put Touch of Evil on her top 10 sight
• 31:04
  Speaker 5: and sound ballot.
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 31:06
  Speaker 5: Her official ballot, Josh. She has a real ballot, unlike us.
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I assume.
• 31:10
  Speaker 4: Who pretend.
• 31:11
  Speaker 5: And defending the third man, just Matt Gorley. from many podcasts,
• 31:17
  Speaker 5: and that includes Conan O'Brien's podcast. So you'll want to
• 31:21
  Speaker 5: tune in for that, especially you, Ken, since you're such
• 31:23
  Speaker 5: a fan of The Third Man. Ken's favorite book about
• 31:26
  Speaker 5: movies or moviemaking, Bruce Campbell's If Chins Could Kill. I
• 31:29
  Speaker 5: love higherbrow stuff too, but sometimes I just have the
• 31:32
  Speaker 5: energy to have a blue-collar character tell me how great
• 31:35
  Speaker 5: Ernest Borgnine was.
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: Thank you, Ken. Thank you, Robert, for joining the family
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: and for all those years of listening. Ken doesn't mention
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: a Letterboxd account, but Robert is on there. You can
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: find him at FilmFan80.
• 31:49
  Speaker 5: You can learn everything you need to know about joining
• 31:52
  Speaker 5: the FilmSpotting family at FilmSpottingFamily.com. Benefits include early and ad-free listening.
• 31:58
  Speaker 5: You get pre-sales on events and discounts. You get access
• 32:01
  Speaker 5: to the complete FilmSpotting archive. You also get access to
• 32:05
  Speaker 5: the FilmSpotting family-only Discord and bonus shows. I think we
• 32:10
  Speaker 5: can officially tease it now because we have secured it.
• 32:13
  Speaker 5: Recording is coming up next week, I believe, or a
• 32:16
  Speaker 5: week after next. Before the end of the month, our
• 32:19
  Speaker 5: Film Spotting family members will get their October bonus show.
• 32:24
  Speaker 5: And it is a draft. Yes, it's a draft, which
• 32:29
  Speaker 5: is what we do in October. Two drafts a year
• 32:32
  Speaker 5: with family members. This one is with the champion of
• 32:37
  Speaker 5: our Film Spotting family. family exclusive twenties and thirties madness
• 32:42
  Speaker 5: bracket winner Maria in, I believe Kent UK.
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: That sounds right. Yes.
• 32:48
  Speaker 5: And Maria picked, this is great. The best films of
• 32:53
  Speaker 5: the 2020s. So movies from 2020 to 2025, we're not
• 32:59
  Speaker 5: including 2026 yet, but they, they have to be movies.
• 33:02
  Speaker 5: It's a limited, it's a closed universe here. Movies that
• 33:05
  Speaker 5: have a 90 plus.
• 33:07
  Speaker 4: Rating are, on Metacritic.
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 33:11
  Speaker 4: So the good stuff, the good stuff.
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 33:13
  Speaker 5: It it's, it's a pretty great list includes several of
• 33:17
  Speaker 5: our favorite films of the year or top two films
• 33:20
  Speaker 5: of the year. So it's, it's going to be a battle.
• 33:22
  Speaker 5: There will be a lot of strategizing.
• 33:25
  Speaker 4: Oh yeah.
• 33:25
  Speaker 5: List.
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah. You know, you always have the wild cards and
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: throw a wrench in things. Uh, so yeah, that'll be
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: a fun one coming soon.
• 33:34
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 33:34
  Speaker 5: Learn more at filmspottingfamily.com, especially if you don't want to
• 33:38
  Speaker 5: miss that draft. Let's get back into our current draft. Josh,
• 33:43
  Speaker 5: we are five picks in. That means it is my
• 33:46
  Speaker 5: third choice, sixth overall. I am continuing a theme. I'm
• 33:53
  Speaker 5: such a one, I was going to say one trick pony.
• 33:56
  Speaker 5: I suppose the actual phrase would be, I just have
• 33:59
  Speaker 5: a one track mind when it comes to the things
• 34:03
  Speaker 5: I love in cinema. And this fall, I don't know
• 34:07
  Speaker 5: if it's unique or not, but it's, it's going to scratch.
• 34:11
  Speaker 5: It's clearly going to scratch that itch. And I've got
• 34:15
  Speaker 5: two films so far in the debut, very much so,
• 34:20
  Speaker 5: but even the further misadventures of cliff booth about Hollywood,
• 34:24
  Speaker 5: about actors, about performance, we're going to get back to
• 34:28
  Speaker 5: the theater with my third choice. I'm going with Elsinore.
• 34:36
  Speaker 5: This is coming out November 20th, based on a true story. Honestly,
• 34:43
  Speaker 5: I could just say Andrew Scott and probably just stop talking.
• 34:47
  Speaker 5: And there you go, right? Just make it more concise.
• 34:51
  Speaker 5: I don't know that I need to sell it anymore,
• 34:53
  Speaker 5: but he plays the star, one of the stars of
• 34:56
  Speaker 5: Chariots of Fire, Ian Charlson, who did perform in what
• 35:02
  Speaker 5: came to be a legendary production of Hamlet in the
• 35:07
  Speaker 5: West End. Part of the reason it is legendary is
• 35:11
  Speaker 5: because it was during the last few months of his life.
• 35:15
  Speaker 5: He was diagnosed with AIDS. He did later die. Ian
• 35:20
  Speaker 5: McKellen said of this production that it was incredibly affecting.
• 35:25
  Speaker 5: He won an award and said he declared as he
• 35:28
  Speaker 5: won that award that the true best actor of the
• 35:31
  Speaker 5: year was Ian charlson who died a few weeks later
• 35:34
  Speaker 5: at that point from the notes i'm looking at josh
• 35:38
  Speaker 5: he was the first celebrity in the uk where aids
• 35:43
  Speaker 5: was cited as the cause of his death you watch
• 35:47
  Speaker 5: this trailer or honestly you really just think about it
• 35:50
  Speaker 5: and the subject matter i i don't know is there
• 35:53
  Speaker 5: any actor for me this is a rhetorical question is
• 35:56
  Speaker 5: there any actor who makes you want to break out
• 35:59
  Speaker 5: in tears more than andrew scott When it comes to
• 36:02
  Speaker 5: some of these performances, he's just so affecting. You have
• 36:06
  Speaker 5: Olivia Colman, one of our best, who plays his doctor.
• 36:10
  Speaker 5: At least that's what I gather from the trailer. I
• 36:14
  Speaker 5: hate to take a little bit of a shot at Hamlet,
• 36:18
  Speaker 5: which you did like a little bit more than me,
• 36:21
  Speaker 5: but I'm looking forward to seeing Hamlet.
• 36:24
  Speaker 4: Redeemed on stage.
• 36:26
  Speaker 5: There were, there were moments of the production in Hamnet
• 36:28
  Speaker 5: that I appreciated. There were some moments I, I didn't
• 36:31
  Speaker 5: so much appreciate this. This is going to really give
• 36:35
  Speaker 5: us that, that true backstage flavor, that, that sense of
• 36:41
  Speaker 5: awe of being on stage and putting together a mammoth
• 36:45
  Speaker 5: production like this and having the reverence, not, not that
• 36:49
  Speaker 5: Hamnet didn't, but but having the reverence.
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: That the distance... Unnecessary Hamnet shots going on here. I know.
• 36:55
  Speaker 5: Having the reverence that only the type of distance that
• 36:58
  Speaker 5: this play, this movie, the play within the movie can bring,
• 37:02
  Speaker 5: I should say. There is a part in the trailer, Josh,
• 37:05
  Speaker 5: where you hear a line that Olivia Colman says and
• 37:09
  Speaker 5: the response that Scott's character has, where clearly it's verbalizing
• 37:14
  Speaker 5: the entire theme of the movie. It might be considered
• 37:17
  Speaker 5: a little bit too on the nose, but I think
• 37:19
  Speaker 5: it's it's forgivable because whether either of these characters ever
• 37:25
  Speaker 5: said something literally like this, it, it certainly had to
• 37:31
  Speaker 5: be felt intrinsically and overwhelmingly. And, and I'm watching the
• 37:36
  Speaker 5: trailer and before Scott can even say the line and I'm,
• 37:42
  Speaker 5: I have to be not alone here. Any sentient being
• 37:44
  Speaker 5: watching the trailer has to be thinking the next has
• 37:47
  Speaker 5: to be thinking the same thing. which is you're chuckling thinking,
• 37:52
  Speaker 5: no more talk of death when you're about to play Hamlet.
• 37:55
  Speaker 4: That's rich, right?
• 37:57
  Speaker 5: And of course, sure enough, that is basically what his
• 38:00
  Speaker 5: retort to her is.
• 38:02
  Speaker 4: If you're going to play this part, there's to be
• 38:05
  Speaker 4: no more talk of death.
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: That might be tricky. It's one of the central themes
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: of the play.
• 38:10
  Speaker 5: But that is heavy, right? And I want to see
• 38:13
  Speaker 5: that wrestled with on screen. To be or not to be,
• 38:18
  Speaker 5: at minimum, carries, carries a lot more weight for an
• 38:21
  Speaker 5: actor when not being, when you're on the verge of
• 38:25
  Speaker 5: not being as, as he was. And you, you add
• 38:29
  Speaker 5: all that up. My fascination with theater, with performance, with
• 38:33
  Speaker 5: Andrew Scott, I, the, the trailer for this one, I
• 38:37
  Speaker 5: was hooked already, but, but the trailer also did make me,
• 38:40
  Speaker 5: this is a case where the, the trailer, rather than
• 38:42
  Speaker 5: me feeling like I kind of wish I hadn't seen
• 38:45
  Speaker 5: that it, it actually made me more excited to, see
• 38:49
  Speaker 5: the film. It comes out, if I didn't say this already,
• 38:51
  Speaker 5: I think I did, but just in case, November 20th.
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: Well, and I know at festivals, it got a great reception.
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: So looking forward to that one as well. And I
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: would tease you about having three movies now that, yeah,
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: are pretty much art about art, but I guess my
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: number one pick was that as well. So I'm a
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: little guilty of that. I'm going to go in a
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: different direction though for my next pick. Let's see. I guess, yeah,
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: I think I'm pretty safe here. No, I'm not going
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: to go in too different of a direction. I had
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: a monster in my last pick, and I'm going with
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: a monster here. This is where I'm picking werewolf. And
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: I'm going to say this now for me, for you,
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: for Sam, writing our scripts. Check, spell check, check autocorrect
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: on this. We're going with W-E-R-W-U-L-F. I don't know why.
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: That's the choice. Maybe there's a very well-researched reason knowing
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: Robert Eggers.
• 39:50
  Speaker 4: Any punctuation. Semicolon?
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: Anything? As far as I can tell, no punctuation.
• 39:55
  Speaker 3: Okay, great.
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: So just strangely spelled werewolf. Okay. And yeah, this is
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: Robert Eggers. He tackled Dracula, which I think he did
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: in a unique way with Nosferatu. So why not do...
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: the werewolf legend as well, I guess. This is a
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: myth more so than Dracula, I will say, that I'm
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: kind of obsessed with. In October, I get one book
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: plug for Fear Not, right, Adam, from one show? I
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: can do one in October in spooky season.
• 40:23
  Speaker 4: I suppose, Josh.
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: Okay. Just one. So I did hook the chapter on
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: monster movies on 1941's The Wolfman.
• 40:30
  Speaker 3: I just....
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: Continually fascinated. It's very clear in that telling of this myth,
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: but it's at the root of the myth, really, how
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: it is this parable for our fears of our own
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: capacity to sin. So yeah, that's Fear Not, Christian Appreciation
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: of Horror Movies. Check it out if you want a
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: theological guide to the Halloween season, as most people do, Adam.
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: They're just begging for this. I love the werewolf tale.
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: What will Eggers do with it, especially to this question?
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: I think is interesting because I had a theory with Nosferatu.
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: He basically set that in a world without God. That's
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: one of the compelling things about it, I thought. So
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: maybe this isn't something he'll really explore. I don't know.
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: I'm very curious to find out, in addition to just
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: the aesthetic style that he brings to all of his movies,
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: where while they echo some of these well-known figures and
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: horror icons in they still capture them in a new
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: and unique way. He is reuniting here with much of
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: the Nosferatu cast. You have Aaron Taylor Johnson, Lily Rose Depp,
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: and Willem Dafoe. And like Nosferatu, this is his Christmas gift,
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: December 25 release for Werewolf.
• 41:47
  Speaker 3: The raving wolf spoiled the sin. I am sent of
• 41:53
  Speaker 3: the king. Be joined with us to hunt this beast.
• 42:02
  Speaker 5: You know how to spend that family day, right?
• 42:04
  Speaker 4: Hey, it worked.
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: It was a huge hit.
• 42:08
  Speaker 4: Counter-programming, right?
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: See what happens here.
• 42:10
  Speaker 4: So we're approaching the end of the draft.
• 42:14
  Speaker 5: I have two more picks left. I already have one
• 42:17
  Speaker 5: pick earmarked. It is a movie you've seen, and it
• 42:20
  Speaker 5: would have been the film I picked first. So I
• 42:22
  Speaker 5: have to save a spot for that. What to do
• 42:24
  Speaker 5: with then my final choice, which I'm probably going to
• 42:27
  Speaker 5: pick here. So many great options still on the table.
• 42:31
  Speaker 5: There's a Pavel Pavlikovsky movie that looks fascinating with Sandra
• 42:36
  Speaker 5: Huller that's playing the Chicago Film Festival. There's a new
• 42:39
  Speaker 5: Mike Lee movie that sounds amazing. There's a new James
• 42:43
  Speaker 5: Gray movie that sounds great. The Martin McDonough movie everybody's
• 42:47
  Speaker 5: raving about.
• 42:47
  Speaker 4: I can't believe I haven't picked that yet.
• 42:50
  Speaker 5: If I wanted to continue my theme, which I do badly,
• 42:55
  Speaker 5: and if I was being really honest with myself and
• 42:58
  Speaker 5: our listeners, Josh, if I really had the strength, I
• 43:02
  Speaker 5: would probably admit that the next choice is I Play Rocky.
• 43:09
  Speaker 5: I saw the trailer for I Play Rocky before the
• 43:11
  Speaker 5: last movie I saw.
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: Just do it. Just do it.
• 43:14
  Speaker 4: I'm not going to lie.
• 43:14
  Speaker 5: I genuinely want to see I Play Rocky, and I
• 43:18
  Speaker 5: genuinely am looking forward to it.
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: I think we all believe you. Yeah.
• 43:21
  Speaker 4: I can't wait.
• 43:24
  Speaker 5: That said, I'm going, I'm, I'm eschewing all of those
• 43:29
  Speaker 5: titles and a few others that are on my list
• 43:31
  Speaker 5: that I didn't mention that sound good. I'm going with
• 43:35
  Speaker 5: this film in the fourth slot. My fourth pick comes
• 43:40
  Speaker 5: out December 11th in theaters. Can't see it streaming on
• 43:43
  Speaker 5: Netflix until after the new year, January 8th, Danny Boyle,
• 43:48
  Speaker 5: Danny Boyle's got a new film out ink. It played
• 43:53
  Speaker 5: at the, uh, Venice film festival. And it is a
• 43:58
  Speaker 5: bio drama. So based on a true story about Rupert Murdoch,
• 44:04
  Speaker 5: when he acquired the sun, one of the things that's
• 44:08
  Speaker 5: interesting about this is that it is actually Boyle. I
• 44:12
  Speaker 5: got this from IndieWire. It's Boyle's first non-franchise film since yesterday.
• 44:18
  Speaker 5: We all saw how that turned out, but I'm still,
• 44:21
  Speaker 5: I'm still into it. His first non-franchise film, Josh, since.
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: 2019, because.
• 44:26
  Speaker 4: He's made.
• 44:28
  Speaker 5: The 28 years franchise films since then, and maybe a
• 44:33
  Speaker 5: few other things sprinkled in. I didn't look at the IMDb,
• 44:36
  Speaker 5: but that's what IndieWire is telling me. This stars Jack
• 44:41
  Speaker 5: O'Connell as the editor. Guy Pearce plays Rupert Murdoch. You
• 44:48
  Speaker 5: also have Claire Foy in it, and you watch the trailer,
• 44:53
  Speaker 5: and of course, you know without seeing the name Danny
• 44:58
  Speaker 5: Boyle anywhere, you know immediately it's a Danny Boyle film.
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: What gets you going? What floats your boat?
• 45:07
  Speaker 4: What does any bloke enjoy?
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: Smoking, drinking.
• 45:09
  Speaker 3: Television. Mindless. Violent.
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: Let's keep it optimistic.
• 45:13
  Speaker 4: Do you ever feel like something's gonna happen? Instant propulsion.
• 45:18
  Speaker 5: It is off to the races with that fast-paced editing style.
• 45:26
  Speaker 5: all sorts of visual tricks up his sleeve. And I'm
• 45:29
  Speaker 5: not going to lie, I'm compelled by it. I'm drawn
• 45:32
  Speaker 5: to that. I am also interested in it as someone
• 45:39
  Speaker 5: who is interested in journalism, of course. Whether this is
• 45:44
  Speaker 5: good journalism or not, that probably makes me even more
• 45:47
  Speaker 5: curious to see how this all played out. But there's
• 45:51
  Speaker 5: a great line in there too, Josh, where the O'Connell
• 45:56
  Speaker 5: character says, once you know why something's happened, the story's over,
• 46:02
  Speaker 5: it's dead. And it really is such a good line
• 46:05
  Speaker 5: from the screenwriter who wrote Dear England, James Graham. It, it,
• 46:10
  Speaker 5: it so neatly and succinctly encapsulates what makes these tabloids
• 46:16
  Speaker 5: so successful and, and how they're the anti-journalism because any
• 46:20
  Speaker 5: good journalist would say, but why is where the story begins.
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 46:23
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 46:24
  Speaker 5: But, Of course, it's completely antithetical to the approach that
• 46:29
  Speaker 5: these tabloids are taking. So just thinking about it and
• 46:32
  Speaker 5: understanding it through that lens, it makes so much sense.
• 46:36
  Speaker 5: I'd use the cliche like a moth to a flame.
• 46:39
  Speaker 5: I suppose I should say like a tabloid reader to
• 46:41
  Speaker 5: a salacious headline. That really is it. But part of it, Josh, too,
• 46:46
  Speaker 5: is that even as I see it and I recognize
• 46:51
  Speaker 5: the cliches in it, it you can already tell that it's,
• 46:56
  Speaker 5: it's going to be a fairly conventional, I want to
• 46:59
  Speaker 5: say rise and fall tail, even though where's the fall, right? The,
• 47:04
  Speaker 5: they won, but the fall is in some of these
• 47:07
  Speaker 5: questionable choices and there's, there's going to be real conflict.
• 47:11
  Speaker 5: And obviously the main character even is going to be
• 47:14
  Speaker 5: challenged and have to question some of their decisions. There's
• 47:17
  Speaker 5: going to be a major conflict at some point in
• 47:19
  Speaker 5: the film. Otherwise, what's the, what's the story? And there's
• 47:23
  Speaker 5: going to be real questions about morality here. But as
• 47:27
  Speaker 5: we discussed with Trainspotting, who better, or someone's perspective might
• 47:32
  Speaker 5: be who worse, but who better to tackle those big
• 47:35
  Speaker 5: moral questions than Danny Boyle? Someone who is, as a director,
• 47:42
  Speaker 5: I think really effective at addressing those questions in a
• 47:48
  Speaker 5: way that is so neutral and allows the audience to
• 47:52
  Speaker 5: to make up their own minds. He's not interested in
• 47:55
  Speaker 5: moralizing as a filmmaker, or at least to this point,
• 47:58
  Speaker 5: has shown that instinct.
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I, more often than not, am a big fan
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: of Boyle's work and so intrigued by this. My only
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: bit of caution is, you know, looking at that filmography,
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: the previous non-franchise effort he did, and I guess we
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: would consider T2 Trainspotting a franchise effort. So right before
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: that was Steve Jobs.
• 48:21
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: Which I found pretty disappointing. And I know this isn't
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: a biopic. It's more of a period pick, perhaps, or
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: an industry pick type thing. So it's not exactly the same,
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: but I do... I just hope that it's a little
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: better than Steve Jobs turned out to be. That cast
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: is absolutely promising. Agreed. That is for sure.
• 48:41
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: All right, my last pick... I mean, I, I was,
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: I was a little cautious about having two animated films
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: in my roster of five, but since you've like, you know,
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: backed yourself into this corner of art about art, I
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: feel like I have room to go with two animated films.
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: So this one.
• 49:03
  Speaker 5: Quite intentionally backed myself into it.
• 49:05
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: Exactly.
• 49:05
  Speaker 4: I pulled in leisurely.
• 49:07
  Speaker 5: Yep.
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: So here I am with a second animated film. I just,
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: I just think there's some really promising ones ahead and
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: this is Wildwood, which comes from one of the most
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: exciting animation studios going right now, Laika. They made Coraline,
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: Kubo and the Two Strings, The Box Trolls. Really it's
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: contemporary stop motion at its best. And stop motion has been,
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: will always be dear to my heart. There's just something
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: about sitting in front of a stop motion effort that
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: makes me smile. All those details, washing over you and
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: just trying to wrap your mind around how they were achieved.
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: This one, Wildwood, directed by Travis Knight, who made Kubo.
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: The source material is part of the intrigue here, though.
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: This is based on the 2011 children's novel by Decembrist
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: frontman Colin Malloy. There are three in this series now. And,
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: you know, Debbie being a children's librarian, of course, we
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: have these at home. So I've been making my way
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: through the first one. These are not short, Adam. These
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: are like thick children's novels. And basically the story is
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: about a girl living in Portland who takes her baby
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: brother for a walk. She's pushing him, you know, in
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: a stroller and he's kidnapped by a murder of crows
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: who take him to this fantastical land of the title.
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: It is pretty dark, actually, and that's probably not a
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: surprise to anyone who has listened to the Decembrists. And
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: those are often, those songs are often like dark little
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: fables of their own. So I can't wait to see
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: what the Laika artists do with this. The visual potential
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: is endless. Malloy's imagination and, you know, it's rooted in
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: a lot of children's fantasy that we know, but goes
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: in its own pretty fantastical directions and inventive directions that
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: are really rich fodder for animation and stop motion animation
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: in particular. So great voice cast for this as well.
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: Carrie Mulligan, Mahershala Ali, Awkwafina, Angela Bassett, Richard E. Grant,
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: and it's, hey, Tom Waits again. So of course you
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: need Tom Waits as an animated voice.
• 51:15
  Speaker 4: Any, any fall preview.
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 51:17
  Speaker 4: Needs Tom Waits.
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: That too. That too. Wildwood is right around the corner actually,
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: October 23. So I, I had better, I had better
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: get reading and I don't have much time left.
• 51:31
  Speaker 5: That's what these previews should be about. Yours speaks to
• 51:35
  Speaker 5: your idiosyncratic tastes, Josh. And even though I'm also very
• 51:40
  Speaker 5: curious about Wildwood, my list certainly speaks to mine. And
• 51:44
  Speaker 5: that brings me to my final choice. And I get
• 51:46
  Speaker 5: to put a bow on my theme of performance. I
• 51:50
  Speaker 5: don't think you can deny that that theme exists and
• 51:54
  Speaker 5: is in fact, one of the most interesting aspects, or
• 51:58
  Speaker 5: it has to be.
• 51:59
  Speaker 4: I can only speculate.
• 52:02
  Speaker 5: You can tell me when it comes to the movie
• 52:05
  Speaker 5: that opens this weekend that I am absolutely dying to see. Actually,
• 52:10
  Speaker 5: more than any movie coming out this fall, despite it
• 52:13
  Speaker 5: being my final choice, it is You Can See Everything,
• 52:16
  Speaker 5: the documentary from Nathan Fielder and Lance Oppenheim. Yes, it
• 52:20
  Speaker 5: does open on October 16th. So everybody by now, has
• 52:25
  Speaker 5: probably seen the trailer, or if you haven't, you have
• 52:27
  Speaker 5: seen the memes. If you're on social media, you've seen
• 52:31
  Speaker 5: the memes. You've seen Nathan Fielder's head butting in way
• 52:36
  Speaker 5: too extremely loud and incredibly close, or at least incredibly
• 52:40
  Speaker 5: close to Theranos, of course, Theranos founder, Elizabeth Holmes, her face, right?
• 52:49
  Speaker 5: And the conceit of this film is that she... invited
• 52:56
  Speaker 5: these cameras in to document her before she goes off
• 53:01
  Speaker 5: to jail?
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like maybe a month or two at most.
• 53:06
  Speaker 5: Okay, but this is like a three-year span, apparently, or overall,
• 53:12
  Speaker 5: it's three years.
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: The documentary covers, yeah, multiple years.
• 53:16
  Speaker 5: And of course, you know I can't wait to see this,
• 53:21
  Speaker 5: and I'm saying this as someone who does not actually
• 53:24
  Speaker 5: know a whole lot other than the, the broad strokes
• 53:28
  Speaker 5: of the news and listening to a few podcasts about
• 53:31
  Speaker 5: Theranos and Elizabeth Holmes. And I'm, I'm a newbie when
• 53:35
  Speaker 5: it comes to Nathan Fielder. And I like that actually,
• 53:38
  Speaker 5: I don't, I don't really want to, to do more digging.
• 53:40
  Speaker 5: I just want to see, you can see everything, but
• 53:43
  Speaker 5: also as someone who loves documentaries, who as much as
• 53:47
  Speaker 5: anything else, when it and whether it can be captured,
• 53:58
  Speaker 5: whether there is such a thing as objective.
• 54:01
  Speaker 4: Of course there's not.
• 54:02
  Speaker 5: What is that line between subjectivity and objectivity and how
• 54:06
  Speaker 5: do we navigate it? How does a filmmaker navigate it?
• 54:10
  Speaker 5: The line in the trailer, Josh, it's explicit, right? Where
• 54:15
  Speaker 5: the director just openly or one of the participants who's
• 54:19
  Speaker 5: a co-director Fielder just openly says to her, right, at
• 54:22
  Speaker 5: one point, what if I see something that makes you
• 54:25
  Speaker 5: look bad? This is the implicit question that every documentarian
• 54:31
  Speaker 5: is asking when they're covering a subject. Whether they really
• 54:36
  Speaker 5: are conscious of it or not, and I think they
• 54:38
  Speaker 5: probably always are, they are at some point going to
• 54:40
  Speaker 5: have to wrestle with that question because they're developing a
• 54:43
  Speaker 5: relationship with that subject. And depending on how much distance
• 54:46
  Speaker 5: they have, depending on what relationship they have coming in,
• 54:50
  Speaker 5: and what bond they do or don't form with that
• 54:53
  Speaker 5: subject over the course of filming, at some point in
• 54:55
  Speaker 5: the process, maybe in the editing, they're going to have
• 54:58
  Speaker 5: to make choices about what they decide to show and
• 55:01
  Speaker 5: not show. And so here, this movie is just, it's
• 55:06
  Speaker 5: on front street that you have a filmmaker openly questioning that.
• 55:12
  Speaker 5: And I love that at least we don't know what
• 55:17
  Speaker 5: her response, her full response is, But of course, from
• 55:20
  Speaker 5: the trailer, it suggests that she's being what she always
• 55:24
  Speaker 5: seems to be, which is a little artfully dodgy, right?
• 55:29
  Speaker 4: You can't get a read on her.
• 55:31
  Speaker 5: And then there's great moments too, Josh, like when she has,
• 55:35
  Speaker 5: is it a fiance that we see in the film
• 55:37
  Speaker 5: that's living with her?
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, different times. But yeah, I think at that point,
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: it's unclear whether they are married at that point.
• 55:45
  Speaker 4: But yeah, her partner, her partner. They have two kids together,
• 55:48
  Speaker 4: so yeah.
• 56:17
  Speaker 5: Her motivations for being with you. He says, well, what
• 56:20
  Speaker 5: did she have to gain from me? And so I,
• 56:22
  Speaker 5: as a viewer here in that moment, I'm thinking, oh,
• 56:24
  Speaker 5: this will be really interesting. You know, this must be
• 56:27
  Speaker 5: a real kind of gotcha almost for Fielder. If he's
• 56:30
  Speaker 5: saying that, what could the response possibly be? And Fielder says, well,
• 56:35
  Speaker 5: isn't your family rich?
• 56:37
  Speaker 1: I fell in love in that first conversation.
• 56:39
  Speaker 2: Before or after that she revealed she was the founder
• 56:43
  Speaker 2: of Theranos?
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: Probably before. I mean, weren't you worried she was sort
• 56:47
  Speaker 1: of scamming you?
• 56:48
  Speaker 3: 100%.
• 56:49
  Speaker 4: But what did she have to gain from me?
• 56:51
  Speaker 2: Well, isn't your family rich?
• 56:54
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that there's like a lot of different
• 56:56
  Speaker 4: levels of wealth.
• 57:00
  Speaker 5: How did he not anticipate that? How has it never
• 57:03
  Speaker 5: occurred to him that he might be being used for
• 57:07
  Speaker 5: his money? Is he actually being fully honest in that moment?
• 57:11
  Speaker 5: There's just– there's so many layers to it. And Josh,
• 57:14
  Speaker 5: that close-up, I think that close-up that is so captivated
• 57:19
  Speaker 5: everyone from the trailer, it has done so because it
• 57:25
  Speaker 5: speaks to this fundamental inquisitive desire we have to try
• 57:33
  Speaker 5: to get at this slipperiness, to try to decipher some
• 57:37
  Speaker 5: truth that we know is just– outside of our grasp.
• 57:42
  Speaker 5: And I don't think we probably will ever be able
• 57:44
  Speaker 5: to grasp with Holmes or maybe with just about any
• 57:49
  Speaker 5: subject in this postmodern world. And he is leaning in
• 57:54
  Speaker 5: as if by doing so and looking at her like
• 57:59
  Speaker 5: he's looking through a microscope will somehow reveal the truth
• 58:04
  Speaker 5: to him. And we kind of know that that's, at
• 58:08
  Speaker 5: least I can speculate, that that's not going to be
• 58:11
  Speaker 5: the case. And the last thing I'll say is you
• 58:13
  Speaker 5: then also have to question, Josh, what's being packaged in
• 58:16
  Speaker 5: the trailer. The trailer is just a two-minute or two-and-a-half-minute
• 58:20
  Speaker 5: distillation of all this and being packaged and sold for
• 58:23
  Speaker 5: a reason, too. And it's its own kind of truth.
• 58:26
  Speaker 5: And that moment that's so great at the end when
• 58:30
  Speaker 5: Holmes says, it took me a long time to be
• 58:33
  Speaker 5: okay with letting someone see me cry, and the camera
• 58:37
  Speaker 5: just holds on her, while it's almost like she's waiting
• 58:43
  Speaker 5: as the best actress in the world. Like this is
• 58:45
  Speaker 5: a Meryl Streep level moment to build up the tier.
• 58:49
  Speaker 5: And then the single tier falls and the trailer, I
• 58:53
  Speaker 5: don't know about the movie itself in the trailer. They
• 58:56
  Speaker 5: don't just let that moment play. They have this like
• 58:58
  Speaker 5: synth cue that hits right as the tier falls, clearly
• 59:03
  Speaker 5: suggesting or seeming to suggest that, that it is an
• 59:08
  Speaker 5: act that wait for it. Here's the tear. Holmes is
• 59:12
  Speaker 5: performing for us, right? But is that what she's doing?
• 59:17
  Speaker 5: This is why I cannot wait to see it.
• 59:19
  Speaker 1: So based on the fact that this is a three-hour
• 59:22
  Speaker 1: documentary and you just went long on the trailer, I'm
• 59:25
  Speaker 1: going to predict that this review will be the longest
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: in show history. Oh, great. It's definitely diving into all
• 59:33
  Speaker 1: those questions you asked. I'm not going to say anything else.
• 59:37
  Speaker 1: It's killing me not to respond to some of your
• 59:40
  Speaker 1: observations and what they suggest and what the movie delivers.
• 59:45
  Speaker 1: But I will say this. And it speaks to the
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: close-up you mentioned, which there are many of Fielder. It's
• 59:52
  Speaker 1: a technique that Oppenheim, the co-director, employs throughout for all
• 59:56
  Speaker 1: of them. And I, like you, Adam, had a vague
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 1: idea about the Elizabeth Holmes story. I never really dug
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: deep into it. So my first real extensive exposure of
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 1: even her image is... And the camera in the first
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 1: section where he's kind of embedded with them is on
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 1: her face and just her eyes so often and so
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 1: intensely in the way you describe.
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 1: I had literal nightmares the night of seeing it, of
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 1: her unblinking eyes.
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 4: Yeah, those big eyes.
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: Staring at me. And part of it, again, this should
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 1: save this for the review, is because... as close as
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 1: we are, you can't figure out what's going on behind them.
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 1: And so I think my sleeping brain was trying to
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 1: revisit and try to answer that question. And instead it just, yeah, yeah,
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 1: it gave me nightmares. So we'll pick it up from
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 1: there when we finally get a chance to review it.
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 5: We will indeed. Those are our most anticipated fall movies.
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 5: I think I managed to squeeze in somehow little Little trick.
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 5: I've been at this a while, Josh. I managed to
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 5: get in just about every movie I really cared about
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 5: this fall. Of course, there are other movies I want
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 5: to see, but those are the ones I'm most dying
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 5: to see.
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 4: What about you? Any titles that you weren't able to
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 4: get in?
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 1: I mean, the big ones that have been mentioned on
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 1: the show before, Dune Part 3, I'm a Dune appreciator
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 1: and I'm looking forward to it, just not as much
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 1: as some of these others. Bitter Christmas, I've mentioned the
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 1: new Almodovar. Um, you know, it's gotten, I don't know
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 1: if I'd say mixed, but not like hugely enthusiastic responses
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 1: at festivals. So maybe my excitement's tempered a little bit,
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 1: but still definitely want to see it too. I just
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 1: want to put on people's radars that are very small.
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 1: Koganada has a new movie coming out. Yeah.
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 4: That wasn't on any previews.
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 5: It played at Sundance and I didn't see its release information.
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 4: Does it?
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 1: At least according to IMDB at November 6th, limited release.
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 1: It's also being described as a low-budget experimental drama. The
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 1: setting here, Hong Kong, and one place mentioned it's about
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 1: a young woman haunted by visions of her future self
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 1: who meets a stranger who changes the course of her
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 1: night and possibly her life. I think that description comes
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 1: from Sundance, where it premiered as part of the next section.
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 1: So yeah, New Koganata, always exciting. Want to put that
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 1: on people's radar.
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 5: Z-I-N-G.
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 1: And another one, a filmmaker who has not made a
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 1: movie since 2008, but it was called Ballast, and it
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 1: made my top 10 list that year, Lance Hammer. New
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 1: feature called Queen at Sea. This one won the U.S.
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 1: Dramatic Directing Award at Sundance and stars Juliette Binoche. So
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 1: here Lance Hammer comes back and just has Juliette Binoche
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 1: playing a woman who moves back to London with her
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 1: teen daughter to care for her aging mother. So that's
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 1: Queen at Sea, which also has a release date, October 30.
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 1: So maybe put that on your to-watch-for list as well.
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 5: We would be remiss if we didn't mention this, Josh,
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 5: because you did say it, at least with your first pick, Behemoth.
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 5: But a couple other choices, as you were saying them
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 5: and as I mentioned them, it jogged something with the titles,
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 5: and I looked them up as we were going along
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 5: through the draft.
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 4: If you can't wait.
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 5: To see some of these films that we were hyping
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 5: up and you happen to be in Chicago or in
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 5: the area and you want to see them ahead of
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 5: their release dates. And some of these movies, again, we
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 5: mentioned our December releases or late November releases. Maybe you
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 5: won't see until January in some cases. If you want
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 5: to see them earlier, it turns out that five, half
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 5: of our picks are playing now.
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 4: As you're hearing this, potentially.
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 1: That's right.
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 5: Certainly, as we release this, the Chicago Film Festival has begun,
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 5: and five of these titles are playing at the fest.
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 1: And another one I'm going to see there, you mentioned,
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 1: not the title, but you mentioned Pavel Pavlikovsky as a
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 1: new film with Sandra Hulard.
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 4: The title is Fatherland. Yes.
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 1: And I'm going to be seeing that at the fest, too.
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 1: So that's one of them.
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 5: Maybe we'll see each other at that screening. That's one
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 5: that I'm taking my students to. So I'll see Fatherland.
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 5: Anticipating that, but the five titles from our list that
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 5: are playing are Behemoth, The Debut, Ray Gunn, Elsinore, and
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 5: Ink are all on the Chicago International Film Fest docket.
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 5: We will link to the full list of festival films
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 5: in our show notes, and we do hope that you
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 5: get a chance to see some of those movies now
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 5: or possibly later. Later, we will link to our full
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 5: list of draft choices over at filmspotting.net. Just click on lists.
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 4: This is the journal's new Facebook detective. He's not looking
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 4: for trouble. He's hunting for it.
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 2: You can't use my name and this is all off
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 2: the record.
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 1: What would you like to talk about?
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 2: I ran classifiers on political groups where 30% of content
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 2: hits multiple risk factors.
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 3: Hang on, I don't understand what you're saying.
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 5: Aren't you a tech reporter? Ish.
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 3: Ish?
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 1: Ish?
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 5: Aaron Sorkin won a screenwriting Oscar for his social network
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 5: script 15 years ago. He's back writing and directing this
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 5: time with The Social Reckoning. It's based on a real
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 5: case of corporate whistleblowing by a former Facebook employee. That
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 5: employee is Francis Haugen. Mikey Madison plays Francis. Jeremy Allen
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 5: White is Wall Street Journal reporter Jeff Horwitz, who contributed
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 5: to the paper's reporting on the internal documents that Haugen shared.
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 5: Jeremy Strong is Facebook founder Mark Zuckerberg.
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 4: This time.
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 5: Since you suggested you may have an answer, Josh, why
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 5: don't we go ahead and go back to producer Sam's prompt?
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 5: Maybe he read your review. I have not at this point.
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 5: Is this a case where the social network felt like
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 5: it was getting ahead of something and now the social
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 5: reckoning is reckoning a little bit too late?
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 1: I think my response to this movie is related to that.
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 1: Not exactly the same. I would say this is a
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 1: whistleblower movie above all else and interesting in that way.
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 1: I think it moves briskly. You get carried along with it.
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 1: I would mildly recommend the movie as a whistleblower movie.
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 1: But I think what holds me back from really being
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 1: more enthusiastic about it is that the reality is the
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 1: whistle was blown. quite a while ago now, and the
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 1: movie documents that, no one seems to have cared or heard,
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 1: or they heard and they don't care, right? And which
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 1: is fine. That doesn't mean you can't make a movie
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 1: about this still, but I found the social reckoning didn't
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 1: quite know what to do with that reality. There was
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 1: a basic tension here between wanting to bitterly, ironically acknowledge
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 1: that and still be a variation of All the President's Men.
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 1: And I kept thinking about All the President's Men because
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 1: that came out, which does end in, you know, we
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 1: see the bad guys were nailed, right? And it came
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 1: out in the wake of Nixon's resignation. So this is a,
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 1: it's very difficult to make, this is kind of like
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 1: making All the President's Men while Nixon was still firmly
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 1: in office.
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 1: And that's a challenge for a movie that, I think
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 1: the social reckoning is aware of, but doesn't quite meet.
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 1: Is that fair?
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I get it.
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 1: It's like cheering moments for this investigation, but then it
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 1: acknowledges that it really didn't lead to anything and it
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 1: can't reconcile that to my mind.
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I think there's some logic to that because that
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 5: perhaps explains then why, especially at the end, Sorkin feels
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 5: the need to push so hard. Because there hasn't been
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 5: a reckoning. Nobody has cared. So he's going to make
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 5: sure we walk out of this movie caring. Feeling like
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 5: something important either did transpire or we need to be
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 5: motivated to make something happen. And he's going to make
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 5: us motivated.
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 1: And did you feel we were being motivated more towards
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 1: one of those or– because you can't have both.
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 5: No, you really can't have both. And that's, that's why
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 5: I think like, it sounds like similar to you. I
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 5: didn't really walk out feeling either. And, and that's why I'm, I'm,
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 5: I'm just like you. Unfortunately, I was, I was effectively
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 5: carried along by this film as a whistleblower movie, as
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 5: a journalism movie, more or less. And, and I'm really torn,
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 5: you know, you, you said it right. Like mild recommendation,
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 5: but not carried away with it. And this is, This
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 5: is usually not a line I find myself having to
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 5: navigate much, but this is a movie. Here's my version
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 5: of that line of what you said. This is a
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 5: movie I did mostly– I found myself mostly enjoying watching.
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 4: In the moment.
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 5: But even as I walked out of the theater, I thought,
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 5: I'm not sure it's a particularly good movie.
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 3: Right?
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 5: Like, yes, it's interesting, this film that's about the intersection
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 5: of journalism and technology and social media.
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 5: And the havoc that this has undoubtedly caused, the problems
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 5: that now seem insurmountable and what wasn't done about it
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 5: and what we can or can't do about it, whether
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 5: or not we can put the horse back in the barn,
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 5: the intersection with politics, the appreciation I have for, and
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 5: I always have, for some of the Sorkin style of writing,
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 5: which does come through here in parts. All of that
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 5: makes it more or less enjoyable. The other thing that
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 5: does make it work, mostly, or some of the time,
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 5: is watching, for me, Jeremy Strong play Zuckerberg.
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 4: And here's what I mean by that.
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 1: Oh, okay.
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 4: Here's why. Because I do think.
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 5: He's got a very tough task. He does have to,
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 5: he has to make Mark Zuckerberg seem human. He has
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 5: to bring depth to this character. To a character, I'll say,
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 5: who it is very easy to portray like a character,
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 5: to portray not human, to portray like a machine. And
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 5: I looked this up because I wanted to make sure
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 5: I handled this the right way. Apparently, it hasn't been
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 5: officially diagnosed, but he has said publicly that he has
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 5: a mild form of autism that's associated with Asperger's. I
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 5: don't think anyone is surprised to hear that. If you
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 5: look up the traits that are associated with Asperger's, intense
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 5: focus on specific interests, difficulty with social cues and small talk.
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 4: This is just a few I found on a website.
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 5: Preference for routine and predictability, high intelligence and problem-solving skills,
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 5: literal thinking and difficulty understanding sarcasm. We see almost all
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 5: of those come through in this portrayal of this character.
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 5: And we saw it in Jesse Eisenberg's portrayal as well.
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 5: And all of those traits make him, distancing from other
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 5: people and make him cold and make him detached and
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 5: make him very hard to like. And Zuckerberg is not,
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 5: he's not very likable. He's not very likable in real life,
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 5: especially if you add on the way you feel about
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 5: his actions or his inactions as they're portrayed here. in
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 5: this film that makes it even easier to dislike him
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 5: or possibly even hate him. And I think, I think
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 5: strong plays him as he has to, or at least
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 5: I'll say this, Josh, it, it drew me in enough
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 5: to the movie to watch how he was playing Zuckerberg
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 5: as someone conflicted, someone under fire, someone overwhelmed by the moment.
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 5: There are times where you can, you can almost see
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 5: his computer brain short circuit, but rather than that, seeming
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 5: like a joke at his expense, you can, you can
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 5: empathize with him or at least, at least understand, you
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 5: can understand the struggle that, that he, he is going
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 5: through at that, at that moment. So I, I did
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 5: think that that is that, like I said, it did
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 5: at least compel me through those scenes.
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 1: It's certainly not a performance that is a joke at
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 1: his expense. I think Strong is going for those layers
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 1: you talked about in the humanity. Of course, what actor
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 1: would not attempt that? That being said, I think this
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 1: is like two degrees away from an SNL Mark Zuckerberg impersonation.
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 5: I liked it because it pushed beyond that.
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 1: I didn't get those moments. For me, the best moments
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 1: were when he exhibited the skill... the level of intelligence,
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 1: the processing speed and focus that would be part of
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 1: that personality of Zuckerberg's personality. And it's when he is
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 1: rehearsing his testimony and he's switching back and forth between topics.
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 1: And I thought here, I'm getting a glimpse of how
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 1: this person's mind might work and starting to understand, you know,
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 1: how he would be in this position in this, in
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 1: this field right now. that did involve quote unquote humanity.
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 1: So to me, I found the performance quite robotic, quite stiff. And, um,
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 1: sometimes even again, not purposefully, but when he's like turning
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 1: in his desk, like as if, as if he has
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 1: no joints, I just don't, even if it's accurate, even
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 1: if strong found video of Zuckerberg and that's really how
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 1: he turns in his chair, you know, is what he
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 1: did in the film to do that is like, Sometimes
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 1: accuracy doesn't help for a dramatic film because it will
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 1: come off as comical. But I did– so we're a
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 1: little split on Strong. I did really like– and part
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 1: of the reason I had a similar experience with you
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 1: about being carried along in this narrative are the performances
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 1: from Jeremy Allen White and Mikey Madison.
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 4: I think, you know, and there's where we split again.
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 1: I mean, I'm not, they're not going to make my
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 1: year end list, but I think, you know, having watched
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 1: him in the bear where intensity is his thing.
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 1: And yes, that's a good match for this character. What
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 1: I liked here, I liked it here because maybe it's
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 1: just being, you know, having spent so much time with
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 1: his character in the bear, it, we didn't, and, and
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 1: tiring to be quite honest, a bit of his character
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 1: in the bear that there's not a lot of inner
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 1: turmoil that, He's also bringing to this, which I think
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 1: is okay. I don't need, you know, the whole backstory
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 1: and learn about Jeff, how he came to be a journalist.
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 4: Not necessarily backstory.
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 1: He's like a, you know, he's part of this machine
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 1: that's going to get this story exposed, right? And I
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 1: think White's intensity is good there. And Mikey Madison was
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 1: just a surprise. I only know her from Enora. Such
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 1: a different human being she's playing here. And equally as... vivid,
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 1: a different, you know, and Nora just leads in Nora.
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 1: She leads in your face with that energy and she's
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 1: as alive here, but in a way for a person
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 1: who is really quiet and wants to be alone and
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 1: doesn't is, doesn't want to be in your, your face,
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 1: but has these convictions. that pushes her in places where
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 1: she's uncomfortable, but knows that she has to be. I'm
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 1: not going to risk my job, my future, or my
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 1: freedom anymore to help a reporter who, let's face it,
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 1: is biased against tech because we're taking journalism jobs.
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 5: Who does this?
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 4: I appreciate all the help you have given me.
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 1: And the risks that you've taken to do it.
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 6: You're absolved.
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 1: For the record, My bias isn't because tech is taking
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 1: journalism jobs.
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 6: It's because you are doing them so badly.
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 1: I enjoyed their scenes together. You know, the Sorkin dialogue,
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 1: it's better in some of those scenes with them than others.
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 1: Some of them, it's like, you guys are clearly just,
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 1: it doesn't lift off the page.
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 4: No, it doesn't.
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 1: They're trying their best.
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 1: And I think hit it. They make it work most
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 1: of the time for me.
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 5: And I don't, let's be clear, I don't really have
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 5: any issues at all with the Mikey Madison performance before
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 5: I get into more. One thing I did want to say, lastly,
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 5: about Strong is that there is a moment that I
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 5: do give Strong and I give Sorkin as a screenwriter,
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 5: and I suppose as a director too, credit for, which
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 5: is they... make him what he is. He makes himself,
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 5: maybe I should say, the villain of this film. But
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 5: they do at least give him that moment where he
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 5: gets to explain himself in an argument with Bill Burr's character.
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 5: And when he does, when he does, the thing is,
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 5: you have to at least consider his perspective.
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 4: You can hate him all you want.
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 5: You can disagree with him the way Bill Burr's character,
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 5: Charlie Gerrigan, who is a fictional character, apparently, is an
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 5: amalgam He's a character they made up for this film
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 5: to be this provocateur. And I like Burr's performance in
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 5: the film, quite honestly. And yes, I'm bringing in an
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 5: external factor here, Josh. And you don't need to because
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 5: that's naturally Burr's cantankerous persona. But you wonder if some
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 5: of the things you're hearing in pop culture about Burr's
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 5: anti-method acting stance and some of the tension that there
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 5: may have been or may have not been on set
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 5: between the two– lent itself to this performance because it,
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 5: it comes through. It came through for me in, in
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 5: some of these scenes, or it certainly, it didn't hurt the,
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 5: the aggressiveness and the confrontation that, that confrontational aspect of
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 5: those scenes. I like Burr, but I, I at least appreciate,
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 5: I appreciated Josh that in, in that scene where he
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 5: gets to push back on Charlie after just taking hit
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 5: after hit after hit, you have, you do have to
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 5: at least You have to reckon with the thought of
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 5: being in his shoes and questioning how you would approach
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 5: some of these situations. how you would handle free speech
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 5: if you were running a social media platform. And it
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 5: being very easy to lob grenades sitting in the stands
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 5: like Burr's character is versus being the person who has
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 5: to actually make these decisions. I thought that was a
• 1:19:25
  Speaker 5: smart play from a screenwriting standpoint.
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 4: The reason why you hear it from the left and
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 4: the right on content moderation, they work in the refs.
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 2: Facebook isn't the ref. That's the point. That's the point, Charlie.
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 2: We're not the ref. We're the public square. I'm a
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 2: free speech absolutist, so accept where there's imminent harm.
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 4: You can't say absolutist and accept in the same.
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 1: With the new optimizations, with the MSI, the fire hose
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 1: of bad information you are injecting into the air supply
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 1: is becoming jet-powered. It's hydraulic.
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 4: Harm, I promise you, is imminent.
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, those exchanges were just, you know... they felt like
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 1: such Sorkin speeches.
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 4: Being lobbed back and forth, right?
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 5: So it was hard to get a sense of character
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 5: from those. I'm talking about that one scene in particular
• 1:20:09
  Speaker 5: where they're just talking together, directly to each other, away
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 5: from the lights and everybody else. With White, he's an
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 5: actor I like so much in The Bear, even though
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 5: I haven't completely finished it.
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 4: And I liked him in The Iron Claw.
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 1: Too.
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 5: And maybe I, I misremember that performance a little bit.
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 5: I need to go back and look at, but of course, yes, we,
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 5: maybe it's because of the bear only Josh, but I
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 5: think we all, you ask anybody in the first, the
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 5: first word, if we were filling in the mad lib,
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 5: all of us would say intense or brooding or whatever. And,
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 5: and then he plays Bruce Springsteen too. And, and it
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 5: seems like, well, that was the perfect role for him
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 5: as well. Who's who's more intense and brooding the Bruce Springsteen.
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 4: But the thing is he's.
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 5: Springsteen is not really, he, he, he seems to, he,
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 5: he evokes that, but when he, he only lets out
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 5: the intensity really when he's performing. Otherwise the brooding comes
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 5: out from, he seems to internalize everything. And that's what,
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 5: that's what made him, I think in the biopic kind
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 5: of difficult to portray and for white to make really
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 5: interesting as a character is like, how do you, how
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 5: do you bring to life all that internal conflict that
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 5: he's working through artistically? And here, I'll just say, this
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 5: character is just kind of bland as a character. And
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 5: I didn't see any intensity at all from him. And
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 5: what struck me, no, I didn't. And what struck me
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 5: is that in the trailer, which I did see because
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 5: it played before a movie I saw, they play up
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 5: an aspect that isn't played up in the movie at all.
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 5: And trailers do this, I understand, right? But It's telling
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 5: to me, actually, that the trailer felt the need to
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 5: intensify this, to gin this up a little bit, which
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 5: is the angle that, oh, this is going to, if
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 5: he exposes her, if he makes the choice to expose
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 5: her as a whistleblower and publish this story, it's going
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 5: to ruin her life. This kind of standard whistleblower journalist
• 1:22:19
  Speaker 5: stuff that we get. And that suggests that you're going
• 1:22:24
  Speaker 5: to get that, that you're going to have a character
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 5: who's really going to be wrestling with his complicity.
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 4: And what does he do?
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 5: Does he, does he publish the story, even though he's
• 1:22:34
  Speaker 5: developed a relationship with her, you know, as a subject and, and,
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 5: but it's the truth and this story needs to get out.
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 5: That's not a part of this movie. It's, it's, it's
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 5: mentioned basically once, otherwise it's not part of the story
• 1:22:46
  Speaker 5: at all. And, and so I just, I think that
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 5: speaks to though, how, how there isn't as much drama here.
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 5: with this character and between these two characters as, as
• 1:22:56
  Speaker 5: maybe they're actually needed to be.
• 1:22:59
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:22:59
  Speaker 1: I feel like for me, the intensity, again, what I
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 1: liked about it is that it was a modulated intensity
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 1: from what I expected. If you had just told me,
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 1: you know, when I heard he was in this movie,
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 1: I would have expected a lot of that brooding and,
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 1: you know, throwing pads of paper against the wall and,
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 1: you know, going and crouching in a corner when, when she, but,
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 1: but what I liked about it is he still, I
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 1: sense this doggedness and, underneath to get the story. Like
• 1:23:26
  Speaker 1: that's where the intensity was. Like he was a locked
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 1: in on this story, but the, but then he pulls
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 1: back because it's part of the journalistic process for him.
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 1: Like you have to, in any time you're working with
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 1: a source, it's like a very delicate dance.
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 1:23:41
  Speaker 1: And so to lead with that intensity would have just
• 1:23:43
  Speaker 1: pushed her away. And so for me, there was enough
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 1: modulation there where he was, I could feel his, his,
• 1:23:51
  Speaker 1: his wanting the story. And then it was interesting to
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 1: watch him as an actor dial that down to give
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 1: her the space to come to him when she was ready.
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 1: But I always knew he was waiting to pounce on
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 1: the information she was going to bring.
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 5: I hear what you're saying, but this would have to
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 5: be a subject for another time because I don't have
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 5: the answer. Besides the fact that this aforementioned movie is
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 5: simply a far better film because it's an American masterpiece.
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 5: But what I would push back on is saying, why
• 1:24:22
  Speaker 5: is it? I won't even mention Hoffman is Carl Bernstein
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 5: because that is clearly a more intense performance on its face.
• 1:24:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:24:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 5: But I actually think, I actually think Redford as Bob
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 5: Woodward is a corollary, a good corollary.
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 1: Absolutely.
• 1:24:38
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 1:24:38
  Speaker 1: Absolutely.
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 4: To, uh, Alan, Jeffrey Allen, Jeremy Allen White. I will
• 1:24:42
  Speaker 4: concede before you get there. Jeremy Allen White is not
• 1:24:45
  Speaker 4: Robert Redford. So why is it though? What, what is
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 4: it though?
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 5: Um, Ignoring the fact that Redford has had the career
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 5: he had, and that was fairly early in his career,
• 1:24:56
  Speaker 5: what is it about the performance and the modulation that
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 5: Redford gives as Woodward as the more subdued but persistent
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 5: journalist that makes it so much more intense than what
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 5: he's doing here as Horwitz?
• 1:25:09
  Speaker 4: And maybe it is the material. I think that's where the.
• 1:25:11
  Speaker 1: Material is falling a little short. Even while I enjoyed
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 1: a lot of the exchanges here, this felt to me
• 1:25:20
  Speaker 1: It's like Sorkin, you always thought about snappy writer. And
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 1: this is, I would say, snappy-ish. You know, it's just, it's.
• 1:25:30
  Speaker 4: Like, yeah, for the most part.
• 1:25:34
  Speaker 5: I'd say it's both ineffectively fractured. We haven't talked about
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 5: the structure yet.
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 3: The narrative.
• 1:25:40
  Speaker 1: I would agree with that as well.
• 1:25:41
  Speaker 5: Ineffectively fractured and frustratingly redundant at times. The script is
• 1:25:46
  Speaker 5: missing Sorkin's signature snap. I felt that throughout. And what
• 1:25:51
  Speaker 5: I mean by the structure too, Josh, is a thing
• 1:25:53
  Speaker 5: where we all know that the social network had that
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 5: great sort of ingenious structure. Here, I wouldn't say something
• 1:26:01
  Speaker 5: I was hyper aware of as I was watching it is,
• 1:26:03
  Speaker 5: oh man, it's really darting around in time a lot.
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 5: It's using the timeline to keep us in line as
• 1:26:10
  Speaker 5: viewers so we know where we are on screen, all
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 5: that stuff. I was aware, I was putting myself I
• 1:26:17
  Speaker 5: was trying to put myself in Sorkin shoes or the
• 1:26:19
  Speaker 5: editor's shoes. And I was thinking, is this going to
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 5: be an easy criticism of this film that it's unnecessarily
• 1:26:25
  Speaker 5: confusing or clunky? I don't think it is, but that's
• 1:26:29
  Speaker 5: why I said it's just ineffective. I think, I think
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 5: if you're going to employ a structure like that, it,
• 1:26:34
  Speaker 5: it has to be additive. And I don't know that
• 1:26:37
  Speaker 5: it ever, it ever is. I don't think that anything
• 1:26:40
  Speaker 5: interesting ever came out of those connective threads or the editing,
• 1:26:43
  Speaker 5: the connections that they were making with, With that editing, again,
• 1:26:47
  Speaker 5: not confusing, just not anything that heightened anything the script
• 1:26:51
  Speaker 5: was trying to do either for me.
• 1:26:53
  Speaker 1: There's a montage that cuts back and forth between the
• 1:26:56
  Speaker 1: two timelines that I think is as special. I don't
• 1:26:59
  Speaker 1: want to get into detail.
• 1:27:00
  Speaker 5: No.
• 1:27:00
  Speaker 1: Because, you know, it sort of gives some things away.
• 1:27:02
  Speaker 1: But it's, I think that's the, for me, that's the
• 1:27:05
  Speaker 1: peak example of what you're talking about.
• 1:27:07
  Speaker 5: The redundancy part. And this is, redundancy... If Aaron Sorkin
• 1:27:14
  Speaker 5: was here, this is where he might strenuously object. Some
• 1:27:19
  Speaker 5: people will know what I was doing there. Many listeners may.
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 5: This is just one example. Madison's character keeps repeating. I mean,
• 1:27:30
  Speaker 5: I think we hear it. Honestly, I was counting. I
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 5: think six times how much she likes her job.
• 1:27:35
  Speaker 4: It's true.
• 1:27:36
  Speaker 5: I think it's meant to be some sort of psychological tell-tale.
• 1:27:40
  Speaker 5: That's really revealing how, just how conflicted she is about this.
• 1:27:44
  Speaker 5: Or it could be, I was kind of waiting for
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 5: this too, Josh, that maybe it's a, uh, she doth
• 1:27:49
  Speaker 5: protest too much scenario where she's going to be called
• 1:27:52
  Speaker 5: on it at some point that, well, if you love
• 1:27:54
  Speaker 5: your job so much, you love this place so much.
• 1:27:57
  Speaker 5: Why are you, why are you doing this? Why are
• 1:27:59
  Speaker 5: you so focused on the negatives? But honestly, nothing really
• 1:28:03
  Speaker 5: comes of it in, in really in either way. It
• 1:28:07
  Speaker 5: is just, it's just constantly repeated.
• 1:28:10
  Speaker 1: It takes us back to the performances because I was
• 1:28:13
  Speaker 1: asking myself, you know, how does an actor, when they're
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 1: given that line for the fourth or fifth time, and
• 1:28:21
  Speaker 1: obviously perhaps there are conversations with the director and they
• 1:28:23
  Speaker 1: meant to do one of those things you're talking about
• 1:28:26
  Speaker 1: and it just didn't come across for us. But the
• 1:28:28
  Speaker 1: way it came across to me is I was thinking
• 1:28:30
  Speaker 1: about her and like just getting it and be like, oh, again?
• 1:28:34
  Speaker 4: Again. Yeah.
• 1:28:36
  Speaker 1: What do I do this time? Because the movie doesn't,
• 1:28:39
  Speaker 1: do much to your point.
• 1:28:41
  Speaker 6: No.
• 1:28:41
  Speaker 5: And here's the other one that's actually... Have we talked.
• 1:28:43
  Speaker 1: Ourselves into a negative review yet?
• 1:28:45
  Speaker 5: I mean, my star rating is already up. I was
• 1:28:49
  Speaker 5: leaning just left of three stars. So I think that's
• 1:28:53
  Speaker 5: where I'm going to go. But I think that the
• 1:28:56
  Speaker 5: other more egregious redundancy is, and this is where I'll
• 1:29:00
  Speaker 5: truly invoke all the president's men, is, Josh, they come
• 1:29:03
  Speaker 5: back at least three times. And it's not just a
• 1:29:07
  Speaker 5: line in the script. It's a line and it's teetering
• 1:29:12
  Speaker 5: or tilting the narrative.
• 1:29:15
  Speaker 4: And where we go in time.
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 5: They keep coming back to this smoking gun question of
• 1:29:22
  Speaker 5: why zuckerberg would have changed the algorithm i'm not going
• 1:29:27
  Speaker 5: to spoil anything but why he would why he would
• 1:29:29
  Speaker 5: have changed the algorithm that that seems to have caused
• 1:29:34
  Speaker 5: all this awfulness when it seems on its face to
• 1:29:39
  Speaker 5: to be bad for facebook this is this big question
• 1:29:43
  Speaker 5: what was the evil genius behind this and if they
• 1:29:45
  Speaker 5: could just answer that they've got the heart of this story, right?
• 1:29:50
  Speaker 5: Like this is the most interesting question at the core
• 1:29:52
  Speaker 5: of the story. And the thing is, it is, it's
• 1:29:54
  Speaker 5: a really fascinating question. It's, it's this movie's version of
• 1:29:59
  Speaker 5: follow the money, right. And see where it leads. But
• 1:30:02
  Speaker 5: in all the president's men, how Holbrook doesn't say follow
• 1:30:06
  Speaker 5: the money 17 times. Like he doesn't, he doesn't have
• 1:30:08
  Speaker 5: to keep reminding Woodward and Bernstein to follow the money.
• 1:30:11
  Speaker 5: Like maybe he reminds them once if I'm remembering correctly,
• 1:30:14
  Speaker 5: but like they just follow the money. And And eventually
• 1:30:18
  Speaker 5: the story reveals itself. Here, I just kept asking myself,
• 1:30:22
  Speaker 5: why do we keep asking this question versus the movie
• 1:30:26
  Speaker 5: just eventually revealing it to us?
• 1:30:30
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's clearly trying to build that suspense and
• 1:30:34
  Speaker 1: keep us... It's almost like an episodic series to keep
• 1:30:36
  Speaker 1: us hooked. So yes, clearly, if you've never seen All
• 1:30:40
  Speaker 1: the President's Men, watch that before you go to the
• 1:30:42
  Speaker 1: social reckoning. But because... you know, I'm still recommending this movie.
• 1:30:47
  Speaker 1: I want to at least end for myself on one
• 1:30:49
  Speaker 1: positive thing. And it was very encouraging to me because
• 1:30:52
  Speaker 1: a knock on Sorkin, maybe too unfairly, is that he's
• 1:30:54
  Speaker 1: a writer. He's not a director, right? What's he going
• 1:30:56
  Speaker 1: to bring to something visually? I don't know if that's
• 1:30:59
  Speaker 1: entirely fair. And I was quite encouraged by the prologue
• 1:31:03
  Speaker 1: we get here, which is, I mean, the opening shot
• 1:31:06
  Speaker 1: of this movie is very effectively cinematic. Just on the
• 1:31:11
  Speaker 1: right side of showy, That's also capturing a thematic point,
• 1:31:15
  Speaker 1: which I would just say is it depicts someone who
• 1:31:20
  Speaker 1: has become so invested in their social media life that
• 1:31:27
  Speaker 1: they are willingly putting themselves in dire danger in that moment.
• 1:31:33
  Speaker 1: And I think he finds a very effective visual way
• 1:31:36
  Speaker 1: of presenting that and the way that whole prologue is
• 1:31:39
  Speaker 1: teased out. is very dramatic and suspenseful. And I was like,
• 1:31:44
  Speaker 1: here we go.
• 1:31:45
  Speaker 4: Like, this is a movie movie.
• 1:31:46
  Speaker 1: And I don't know if we get, you know, that
• 1:31:49
  Speaker 1: many moments as good as that one cinematically, but I
• 1:31:52
  Speaker 1: do want to call that out because, you know, I
• 1:31:53
  Speaker 1: think that's a knock on Sorkin. And here, at least
• 1:31:55
  Speaker 1: in that prologue, he shows this, you know, it's something
• 1:31:58
  Speaker 1: he can do. Like he can make a movie. That's
• 1:32:01
  Speaker 1: a movie.
• 1:32:02
  Speaker 5: I should let you end there because that moment is great.
• 1:32:05
  Speaker 4: You're right. The prologue is really good. Unfortunately, it's bookended.
• 1:32:08
  Speaker 5: It's bookended by what I already referenced earlier, which is
• 1:32:12
  Speaker 5: a moment near the end where if I'm remembering my
• 1:32:17
  Speaker 5: feelings about the end of the trial of the Chicago 7,
• 1:32:22
  Speaker 5: it feels very similar. It feels very similar to that
• 1:32:26
  Speaker 5: where Sorkin is– I can't believe I'm going to use
• 1:32:29
  Speaker 5: the Simpson phrase, but he's very insistent. He's just very
• 1:32:33
  Speaker 5: insistent on wanting you to feel a certain way when
• 1:32:36
  Speaker 5: you walk out of the movie. And that heavy handedness
• 1:32:39
  Speaker 5: is something that that prologue doesn't suffer from, but the
• 1:32:44
  Speaker 5: ending of the film does.
• 1:32:46
  Speaker 1: No, there's a subtlety. And yeah, again, he's making his
• 1:32:49
  Speaker 1: point visually there, which doesn't really sink in until later
• 1:32:55
  Speaker 1: in the film. And you realize, oh, that's what was
• 1:32:57
  Speaker 1: going on there. That's probably, you know, even as a writer,
• 1:33:01
  Speaker 1: when he's at his best.
• 1:33:02
  Speaker 5: The Social Reckoning is out in wide release. We would
• 1:33:05
  Speaker 5: definitely love to hear your thoughts about the film. If
• 1:33:08
  Speaker 5: you've seen it, let us know. Feedback at filmspotting.net.
• 1:33:15
  Speaker 1: Always great when we dive into what's good or bad
• 1:33:17
  Speaker 1: about performances, Adam, and then we have to perform.
• 1:33:20
  Speaker 5: We have such credibility as performers.
• 1:33:24
  Speaker 1: No idea what we're talking about. Nonetheless, it is time
• 1:33:26
  Speaker 1: for Massacre Theater. We're going to perform a scene. Listeners
• 1:33:30
  Speaker 1: have a chance to win a film spotting prize. Last
• 1:33:32
  Speaker 1: time we massacred a scene from Christopher Nolan's Inception.
• 1:33:36
  Speaker 4: Let me ask you a question.
• 1:33:37
  Speaker 5: You never really remember the beginning of a dream, do you?
• 1:33:41
  Speaker 4: You always wind up right in the middle of what's
• 1:33:43
  Speaker 4: going on.
• 1:33:44
  Speaker 1: I guess, yeah.
• 1:33:46
  Speaker 4: So how did we end up here?
• 1:33:47
  Speaker 2: Well, we just came from the.
• 1:33:50
  Speaker 6: Think about it, Ariadne.
• 1:33:51
  Speaker 4: How did you get here?
• 1:33:54
  Speaker 6: Where are you right now?
• 1:33:55
  Speaker 1: That was Elliot Page and Leonardo DiCaprio, Inception, written and
• 1:33:59
  Speaker 1: directed by Christopher Nolan. That massacre was part of our
• 1:34:02
  Speaker 1: Mulholland Drive show a couple of weeks back. Why would
• 1:34:06
  Speaker 1: we have picked that scene from Inception?
• 1:34:08
  Speaker 5: We have an explanation from Matthew Afflito in Brooklyn, New York.
• 1:34:12
  Speaker 5: The scene you massacred is obviously from Inception, which, like
• 1:34:15
  Speaker 5: Mulholland Drive, are explorations of the blurry line between reality
• 1:34:19
  Speaker 5: and the surreal nature of dreams. Both also involve actors
• 1:34:22
  Speaker 5: inhabiting other roles within the movie, especially if we are
• 1:34:25
  Speaker 5: to believe the theory that Inception is really about filmmaking,
• 1:34:27
  Speaker 5: which probably like 30% of movies are really about, if
• 1:34:30
  Speaker 5: not more. Just a made-up percentage, but Cobb planted that
• 1:34:33
  Speaker 5: deep in my subconscious, maybe. I must admit that I
• 1:34:37
  Speaker 5: have not actually seen Mulholland Drive, and that is on
• 1:34:40
  Speaker 5: my list of shame. That's a good name for it, Josh,
• 1:34:43
  Speaker 5: if you do feel shame. This scene is moving it
• 1:34:46
  Speaker 5: up to a movie I am going to watch this
• 1:34:49
  Speaker 5: weekend so I can go back and listen to your review.
• 1:34:53
  Speaker 5: By the time you read this out on your next show,
• 1:34:56
  Speaker 5: you're right.
• 1:34:56
  Speaker 4: You pegged us.
• 1:34:57
  Speaker 5: I will have watched this film. I just saw Wild
• 1:35:00
  Speaker 5: at Heart for the first time and thought it was great,
• 1:35:02
  Speaker 5: so I'm looking forward to seeing another Lynch blind spot.
• 1:35:05
  Speaker 4: I hope that you enjoyed it, Matthew.
• 1:35:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Lucky Matthew, getting to experience Mulholland Drive for the
• 1:35:11
  Speaker 1: first time. Not bad.
• 1:35:12
  Speaker 5: We had a fairly brimming... film spotting hat, at least
• 1:35:15
  Speaker 5: compared to the one before it, Josh. So why don't
• 1:35:19
  Speaker 5: you reach in and pick out this week's winner?
• 1:35:22
  Speaker 1: Our winner is Kristen Batchelor. And Kristen didn't mention a
• 1:35:26
  Speaker 1: town or a state, but.
• 1:35:28
  Speaker 4: Mysterious.
• 1:35:29
  Speaker 1: Familiar to you, though. Yes.
• 1:35:30
  Speaker 5: Adam from Trivia Spotting. Was on my Trivia Spotting team.
• 1:35:34
  Speaker 5: As you know, Josh, we did not win. I think
• 1:35:36
  Speaker 5: we tied with you last time.
• 1:35:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that sounds right.
• 1:35:39
  Speaker 4: Mm-hmm. Somehow that stuck in my mind.
• 1:35:42
  Speaker 5: I didn't mean that disparagingly. It just means neither of
• 1:35:44
  Speaker 5: us won that time. But Kristen performed admirably. We had
• 1:35:48
  Speaker 5: a good time. And I know Kristen then is a
• 1:35:51
  Speaker 5: family member, so not interested in the trial membership to
• 1:35:55
  Speaker 5: the Film Spotting family, but perhaps needs a Film Spotting
• 1:35:58
  Speaker 5: t-shirt or tote bag. Kristen, email us feedback at filmspotting.net
• 1:36:02
  Speaker 5: to claim your prize.
• 1:36:04
  Speaker 1: Joan is screaming and furious at you because tear sticks...
• 1:36:10
  Speaker 1: are doping for actors. Do you want to be the
• 1:36:13
  Speaker 1: Lance Armstrong of theater?
• 1:36:16
  Speaker 3: No.
• 1:36:18
  Speaker 5: We move on now to this week's edition of Massacre Theater.
• 1:36:22
  Speaker 5: I think we're maybe trying to set a record for entries,
• 1:36:26
  Speaker 5: a recent record for entries anyway. We're just handing it
• 1:36:29
  Speaker 5: to them. I like to say this. We're giving it
• 1:36:31
  Speaker 5: to them on a platter.
• 1:36:32
  Speaker 4: We're not going to... Well, I won't say it. No,
• 1:36:34
  Speaker 4: don't say.
• 1:36:35
  Speaker 1: Why you feel that way.
• 1:36:36
  Speaker 4: No, I won't.
• 1:36:37
  Speaker 1: Because... I think it'll be fine. It'll be fine.
• 1:36:40
  Speaker 4: It'll be fine. There are some clues. Do you hear
• 1:36:42
  Speaker 4: that exasperated tone in Josh's voice? I love it. I
• 1:36:46
  Speaker 4: love it when he gets fatherly with me. Okay.
• 1:36:49
  Speaker 1: Well, I have a question for you related to that,
• 1:36:52
  Speaker 1: I suppose. Who's going to play who?
• 1:36:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:36:56
  Speaker 1: I think it depends on how cocky you're feeling today. Because.
• 1:37:01
  Speaker 4: Not as cocky as this guy.
• 1:37:03
  Speaker 1: Well, I mean... Never human being, no human being on
• 1:37:06
  Speaker 1: earth has ever been. No. But have you been having
• 1:37:09
  Speaker 1: a good day? Have you been getting some comp? Did,
• 1:37:11
  Speaker 1: did a student leave you an apple, you know, and
• 1:37:14
  Speaker 1: just put a little pup in your step and you're,
• 1:37:16
  Speaker 1: you're feeling good about yourself or, or not a lot
• 1:37:19
  Speaker 1: of engagement in class. Maybe somebody fell asleep even.
• 1:37:23
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:37:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:37:25
  Speaker 4: You know what? I, I, I'm feeling pretty good.
• 1:37:29
  Speaker 1: Actually.
• 1:37:29
  Speaker 4: I'm feeling pretty good, Josh. I'm, I'll take a stab
• 1:37:32
  Speaker 4: at it.
• 1:37:34
  Speaker 1: Let's do it.
• 1:37:35
  Speaker 4: I'll take a stab at it.
• 1:37:37
  Speaker 5: And yes, that means I know what part I am playing.
• 1:37:41
  Speaker 4: I am not going first. You are. So I will
• 1:37:45
  Speaker 4: give you the action. Are you ready?
• 1:37:47
  Speaker 1: Yep. Okay.
• 1:37:48
  Speaker 4: And action.
• 1:37:51
  Speaker 1: Excuse me. I wanted to talk to you about Corporal
• 1:37:53
  Speaker 1: Dawson and Private Downey. Say again? Dawson and Downey.
• 1:37:59
  Speaker 5: Those names sound like they should mean something to me.
• 1:38:02
  Speaker 1: Dawson. Downey. Your clients?
• 1:38:05
  Speaker 5: The Cuba thing, yes. Dawson and Downey, right. I've done
• 1:38:09
  Speaker 5: something wrong again, haven't I?
• 1:38:12
  Speaker 1: I was just wondering why two guys have been locked
• 1:38:13
  Speaker 1: up since this morning while their lawyer's outside hitting a ball.
• 1:38:17
  Speaker 4: We need to practice?
• 1:38:20
  Speaker 1: That wasn't funny.
• 1:38:21
  Speaker 4: It was a little funny. And scene. No charisma.
• 1:38:28
  Speaker 1: I mean, the smugness. You needed to turn the smugness up.
• 1:38:32
  Speaker 1: Maybe it's not a bad thing that you can't get better.
• 1:38:35
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that was tough. I don't know why that was
• 1:38:36
  Speaker 4: so hard for me, Josh. Okay.
• 1:38:39
  Speaker 5: If you know what film, and we really think that
• 1:38:43
  Speaker 5: you do know what film we just massacred, email the
• 1:38:45
  Speaker 5: movie's title. We think, in fact, you might have been
• 1:38:47
  Speaker 5: able to guess it before we spoke. You can email
• 1:38:50
  Speaker 5: the movie. title, your name and location to feedback at filmspotting.net. Deadline, Monday,
• 1:38:55
  Speaker 5: October 26th. We will select the winner randomly from all
• 1:38:59
  Speaker 5: the correct entries and announce it in a couple of weeks.
• 1:39:01
  Speaker 4: Josh, that's our show.
• 1:39:03
  Speaker 1: If you'd like to connect with us on social media,
• 1:39:06
  Speaker 1: you can find Adam and the show on Instagram at Facebook, Letterboxd, YouTube,
• 1:39:10
  Speaker 1: and Blue Sky at Film Spotting. You'll find me at
• 1:39:13
  Speaker 1: Larson on Film. We are independently produced and listeners supported.
• 1:39:18
  Speaker 1: You can support the show by joining the Film Spotting
• 1:39:20
  Speaker 1: family over at filmspottingfamily.com. That way you can listen early
• 1:39:25
  Speaker 1: and add free. You'll also get monthly bonus episodes, a
• 1:39:28
  Speaker 1: weekly newsletter, and access to the show archive. For show
• 1:39:32
  Speaker 1: t-shirts and other merch, go to filmspotting.net slash shop.
• 1:39:37
  Speaker 5: Out streaming this weekend, Josh, Sacrifice, directed by Roman Gavras,
• 1:39:43
  Speaker 5: who made 2022's Athena, or Athena if you're nasty. This
• 1:39:48
  Speaker 5: is clearly, based on its plot summary, a movie that
• 1:39:51
  Speaker 5: should have made my draft list. A movie star in
• 1:39:55
  Speaker 5: the midst of an existential crisis, they're always in such
• 1:39:58
  Speaker 5: a crisis, is taken hostage. Okay, this isn't normal. Taken
• 1:40:01
  Speaker 5: hostage by a radical warrior. and her devoted followers.
• 1:40:05
  Speaker 4: That's a new spin. Well, that took a swerve.
• 1:40:06
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 1:40:07
  Speaker 5: Chris Evans, Anya Taylor-Joy, Vincent Cassell, John Malkovich, and Salma Hayek.
• 1:40:11
  Speaker 4: That's a cast.
• 1:40:13
  Speaker 1: Oh, my.
• 1:40:13
  Speaker 5: Okay.
• 1:40:13
  Speaker 4: It's on Netflix.
• 1:40:15
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 1:40:16
  Speaker 4: Also, Tenzing.
• 1:40:17
  Speaker 5: This is a biopic about Nepalese mountaineer Tenzing Norgay, who
• 1:40:21
  Speaker 5: accompanied Edmund Hillary to the summit of Mount Everest. Tom
• 1:40:27
  Speaker 5: Hiddleston plays Hillary.
• 1:40:30
  Speaker 4: That's on Apple TV.
• 1:40:32
  Speaker 5: In limited release... the Can Palm Door winner from Christian
• 1:40:38
  Speaker 5: Munju Fjord. I forgot that this starred not only Sebastian Stan,
• 1:40:43
  Speaker 5: but Renata Reinsva. I was already very interested in this
• 1:40:47
  Speaker 5: film just because it's a Munju film. Then you add
• 1:40:50
  Speaker 5: on Palm Door winner. Now you add in the reminder
• 1:40:54
  Speaker 5: that it's Reinsva. It's playing at the Music Box. Josh,
• 1:40:56
  Speaker 5: I know you've seen this film already.
• 1:40:58
  Speaker 4: Yeah, this one I want to give.
• 1:40:59
  Speaker 1: An enthusiastic recommendation to. It put me through the ringer.
• 1:41:04
  Speaker 1: I mean, there are, Manju likes to just kind of
• 1:41:08
  Speaker 1: like tease at the seams of society where things aren't
• 1:41:12
  Speaker 1: stitched as well as we hope they would be. And man,
• 1:41:15
  Speaker 1: this is, you know, a little different setting being in Norway,
• 1:41:18
  Speaker 1: but following an immigrant family and how that butts up
• 1:41:24
  Speaker 1: against the progressive values, the family is devoutly religious and
• 1:41:29
  Speaker 1: the way they're raising the kids is brought into question.
• 1:41:32
  Speaker 1: Just you're, you're kind of is one we should maybe
• 1:41:36
  Speaker 1: talk about at some point, because you really are trying
• 1:41:38
  Speaker 1: to process where you fall narratively. And then beneath that,
• 1:41:42
  Speaker 1: we could dig into how Munju got you to ask
• 1:41:45
  Speaker 1: those questions. It's a good one. Check out Fjord.
• 1:41:48
  Speaker 5: Finally, in limited release, someone's going to have to write
• 1:41:51
  Speaker 5: a think piece. Apparently, Misty Green, here we go, years
• 1:41:55
  Speaker 5: after her Hollywood breakthrough, Does anyone care about all these
• 1:41:59
  Speaker 5: actor-actress movies besides me?
• 1:42:02
  Speaker 1: Some of us have a limited, limited tolerance for it. Like,
• 1:42:05
  Speaker 1: give me one every once in a while. Maybe not
• 1:42:07
  Speaker 1: every week, but this is interesting.
• 1:42:09
  Speaker 5: A talented actress whose career has stalled fights for her
• 1:42:12
  Speaker 5: second act. Does she fight against a warlord? Is she
• 1:42:17
  Speaker 5: taken hostage?
• 1:42:18
  Speaker 4: Maybe I don't care.
• 1:42:19
  Speaker 1: You know? Who knows?
• 1:42:21
  Speaker 5: It's directed by Chris Rock, and it stars a UK actress,
• 1:42:24
  Speaker 5: Rosalind Eleazar. Adam drivers in it, Daniel Kaluuya, Anna Kendrick
• 1:42:29
  Speaker 5: here again, I'm going to say that's a cast.
• 1:42:31
  Speaker 1: And you know, Adam Rosalind Eliezer, her character's name is
• 1:42:34
  Speaker 1: escaping me, but since you started watching slow horses, she's in. Yeah.
• 1:42:39
  Speaker 1: Is she Sid? No, she's not Sid. She, Oh man,
• 1:42:43
  Speaker 1: it's been a while now since I watched season one,
• 1:42:46
  Speaker 1: but she ends up partnering with the agent who is on,
• 1:42:50
  Speaker 1: who bikes.
• 1:42:51
  Speaker 4: I knew exactly who I knew exactly.
• 1:42:53
  Speaker 5: She, she hooks up with, uh, The guy who's kind
• 1:42:58
  Speaker 5: of ineffectual.
• 1:43:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, she's one of my favorite characters in that series.
• 1:43:04
  Speaker 1: So this is promising for Misty Green.
• 1:43:07
  Speaker 5: Yes, and You Can See Everything is also out. Well,
• 1:43:11
  Speaker 5: we'll talk about that in a second. Outwide, the new
• 1:43:14
  Speaker 5: adaptation of Austin's Sense and Sensibility with Daisy Edgar Jones.
• 1:43:19
  Speaker 5: Street Fighter, a new adaptation of the ubiquitous 90s arcade game.
• 1:43:23
  Speaker 5: We should review that and... The high concept setup writes itself.
• 1:43:31
  Speaker 5: We get to explain which character we were and which
• 1:43:34
  Speaker 5: character you were.
• 1:43:36
  Speaker 1: So I think Mortal Kombat was my game. I don't
• 1:43:42
  Speaker 1: know if I played Street Fighter. I must have played
• 1:43:45
  Speaker 1: it in somebody's dorm room at some point. Mortal Kombat
• 1:43:49
  Speaker 1: was the one that I have vivid memories of.
• 1:43:51
  Speaker 5: Mortal Kombat was, we played tons of Mortal Kombat in college.
• 1:43:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:43:54
  Speaker 5: On the Sega street fighter was more the arcade game
• 1:43:57
  Speaker 5: for me.
• 1:43:58
  Speaker 1: Okay. I might not have then might've missed that.
• 1:44:02
  Speaker 4: We have whale fall.
• 1:44:03
  Speaker 5: This is about a young man searching for his father's
• 1:44:06
  Speaker 5: remains off the coast of California, only to be swallowed
• 1:44:10
  Speaker 5: by a sperm whale. He's got one hour of oxygen left.
• 1:44:13
  Speaker 5: It stars Austin Abrams. And I can, I can picture
• 1:44:16
  Speaker 5: him in my head being very vexed by this situation.
• 1:44:20
  Speaker 1: I would imagine he is. And yeah, now that I
• 1:44:22
  Speaker 1: declared after Resident Evil that I want him to be
• 1:44:25
  Speaker 1: in everything, I don't know if I meant whale fall,
• 1:44:28
  Speaker 1: but we'll find out. I'm going to check it out tonight. Okay.
• 1:44:32
  Speaker 4: Good luck.
• 1:44:33
  Speaker 5: Next week in the Film Spotting Feed, a new movie
• 1:44:35
  Speaker 5: racket with Michael Phillips. Tuesday, Film Spotting SVU is going
• 1:44:40
  Speaker 5: to do the dirty work. These investigators, they go into
• 1:44:44
  Speaker 5: the alleyways, you know, the crevices. They'll If they don't
• 1:44:50
  Speaker 5: leave any stone unturned, matchbox the movie with John Cena.
• 1:44:53
  Speaker 5: They're going to tell you whether or not it's worth
• 1:44:55
  Speaker 5: your time.
• 1:44:56
  Speaker 3: Wow.
• 1:44:57
  Speaker 1: Hats off, gentlemen.
• 1:44:58
  Speaker 6: Good luck.
• 1:44:59
  Speaker 4: Thursday, the next picture show. They had to do it.
• 1:45:02
  Speaker 5: Part one, the social network and the social reckoning. Fridays,
• 1:45:07
  Speaker 5: film spotting. Well, we're still discussing what that's going to be.
• 1:45:12
  Speaker 5: It kind of depends on what's available for me to
• 1:45:14
  Speaker 5: see because at this point, I think I can see
• 1:45:18
  Speaker 5: Sense and Sensibility. I may be able to see You
• 1:45:22
  Speaker 5: Can See Everything, though I have to travel a little
• 1:45:24
  Speaker 5: ways to see it. But also, I'm spending the entire
• 1:45:26
  Speaker 5: weekend at the Chicago Film Festival with students. So we're
• 1:45:31
  Speaker 5: going to play it by ear a little bit, but
• 1:45:33
  Speaker 5: trust that we'll have something interesting to talk about next Friday.
• 1:45:37
  Speaker 1: We will be here at the very least.
• 1:45:39
  Speaker 5: Yes.
• 1:45:40
  Speaker 1: Film Spotting is produced by Golden Joe DeSoto and Sam
• 1:45:42
  Speaker 1: Van Halgren. Without Sam and Golden Joe, this show wouldn't go.
• 1:45:46
  Speaker 1: Our production assistant is Sophie Kempinar. Ariana Martinez is our
• 1:45:49
  Speaker 1: marketing and social media assistant. Special thanks to everyone at
• 1:45:53
  Speaker 1: WBEZ Chicago. More information is available at WBEZ.org. For Film Spotting,
• 1:45:59
  Speaker 1: I'm Josh Larson.
• 1:46:00
  Speaker 4: And I'm Adam Kempinar. Thanks for listening.
• 1:46:02
  Speaker 6: This conversation can serve no purpose anymore.
• 1:46:05
  Speaker 5: Goodbye.