Latest / Cigars and Cinema Podcast / "The Quintessential 80's Movie: Top Gun 1986" Ep. 120 9/10/26

Transcript

"The Quintessential 80's Movie: Top Gun 1986" Ep. 120 9/10/26 · Cigars and Cinema Podcast

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome back to another episode of Cigars and Cinema.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_01: Grab a cigar, something to pair it with, and let's journey into another episode of Smoke and Screen.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_01: Today's episode of Cigars and Cinema is coming to you from the OGT Cigar Society to join five pack premium custom cigars each month at an undeniable price.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: Join the community and smoke with us on the Oakland Tobacchinist YouTube channel as we delve into the rich experience of OT Craft Cigars and many cigars and vitolas custom made just for our membership.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: If you're interested and if you want to find out more about the subscription and the whole host of these cigars, visit us at www.com or find us on social media platforms like Instagram and TikTok at OGT Cigars.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_01: Hello, hello, everybody.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome back.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_01: We have been gone for one week.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome back to Cigars and Cinema Podcast.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: It is good to be back.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_01: Good to be back in the studio and back on the show.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_01: Coming to you from sunny North Carolina, still not so much rainy season right now.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_01: I am Eric Drazen from OGT Cigars.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_01: And on the opposite side of the country on the West Coast, Curtis Bailey uh back in California.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: Curtis, good to be back after a week absence.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it is.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but I uh unfortunately I feel like that we're we're letting down uh our viewers right now because uh neither of us is sweaty enough to be talking about this movie.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: We just need like high gloss, super well-lit beads of sweat all over us for reasons.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, we should have we we should have done this episode like like beginning of August, end of July, and then like maybe just try to bite the uh the microphone when we like say something like really smart and quick.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_01: But thank you guys so much for jumping on and joining us tonight uh here for Cigars and Cinema Podcast.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_01: If you're unfamiliar or if you've been listening for some time, this is the podcast where we smoke cigars unabashedly commentating, in some cases give giving extreme opinions on film and entertainment.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I do see we have somebody in studio dropping down a comment, and I will highly recommend all of you guys to do the same.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_01: Let us know what you think about this quintessential 80s movie that we're talking about tonight, or even if you've smoked the cigar that you we are smoking tonight, let us know your thoughts.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_01: So put that down in the comments.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_01: We would love to hear that.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: Uh just kick it off.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_01: Mike Ross is saying enjoying a Romacraft Neanderthal.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: Solid cigar.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_01: Solid, solid cigar.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, Curtis, are you pairing anything with tonight's cigar?
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I just have a uh flavored sparkling water.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: There we go.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_01: There we go.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_01: I Mallory and I were watching uh some like British Agatha Christie like murder mystery thing last night, and like there's a the scene where like a dude goes to like a 1930s like bar and orders a scotch, and I was like, I need to have a glass of scotch to watch this.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: So I pulled out Talisker, that was my drink of the week.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_01: It was great.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: Excellent.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: It was great.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but very quickly, special announcement.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: As you guys know, we uh moved through the variety pack that we send each and every month, and today is September 8th, which means we are sending out the new variety pack that went out today.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_01: I want to give you guys a quick glimpse before we get into what we're smoking tonight.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_01: And to do so, I have a like a short reel I wanted to show you.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_01: It's like one minute, and I wanted to see what you thought about this, Curtis, because I think you might get a kick out of it.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_01: So instead of me just like showing a picture and being like, you know, this is this, this is this, let's check this out.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm gonna go ahead and pull this up real quick.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_01: Put together a very, very special team.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_01: First and foremost, basically the Captain America of this pack, Crown Heads Latin Puriosa.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_01: It is bold, it is unapologetic, and strong with conviction of flavor, wrapped up in the Magico size.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_01: Next, the Doctor Strange of this pack.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_01: While it might be a little reserved and unassuming, it packs a wallop of flavor and a lot of complexity that's going under the surface you might have not noticed the first time.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_01: Lure Big Lou Escuro, the straight shooter.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: This is the call to arms from Stolen Throne cigars in the Robusto size.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_01: It strikes hard, it strikes fast, you never see it coming, and it's always on target.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_01: This amazing Sumatra Robusto.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_01: New to the group and new to the team, but so dynamic, it is bound to be a standout.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_01: And that is the new Los Amigos made at the Domain Cigar Factory.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_01: This is the sacred blend using an Ecuadorian Habano nearly Maduro.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_01: This is the Iron Man of the pack.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_01: It is coming in fresh, coming in new, and I had to assemble it in this team.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_01: And finally, not the normal Avenger you'd see in what if Wolverine joined the Avengers?
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_01: That's what this is right here.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_01: This is a what if.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_01: This is the horde, our exclusive release coming later.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_01: Everyone in the variety gets to try it first.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_01: It is extreme, it's intense, no reservation, no holds barbed, and it slashes straight to the palette.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: And there you have it.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: There's our team.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_01: Are you ready to join?
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_01: So there you have it.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_01: That's our uh lineup.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I'm gonna pull up a picture here very quickly to give you a better look.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, that idea came out of two things.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_01: One, I was like, hmm, I wonder what this would sound like because I think everyone would try to like a like assign a different personality to a cigar.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_01: And two, given the fact of what happened last week, I'm starting to have to get a lot more creative than I used to be when it comes to media on the on online.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_01: So that's kind of where that was born out of.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_00: Gotcha.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I actually I think I saw that on Instagram earlier today.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_00: It was fun.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I think that somebody needs to make a little tiny set of Wolverine claws you can use as like a dabber.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_01: There you go.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_01: So that is that is shipping out uh to everyone in the variety pack actually today.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but we are finishing off this one with the cryptid.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_01: Now I know from what I remember at the shop when we first got this, I think you've smoked this before, Curtis, but it might have been a while.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_01: Correct me if I'm wrong.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I've I've had it a handful of times.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um uh it's it was probably my favorite of the the big sky line uh when you first brought them in.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: And uh I've had them pop up here and there in various, you know, sampler packs that I buy from you and whatnot.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I'm I've I've smoked this one quite a few.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_01: Nice.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_01: So we will get back to like a new review.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: For those unfamiliar, the cryptid is made by Big Sky.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_01: It's not necessarily a limited, but they like make it in small batches, so there will be amount of times they're like, yeah, that's not gonna be ready for like two months.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_01: So it's always there, but sometimes smaller amount.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, the cryptid is a five by sixty, so a like short gordo.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_01: Use a sand and drace Maduro wrapper over Nicaraguan binder and filler.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm excited to get into this.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, let's how about we do a cold draw on this?
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I'm there with you though.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_01: I think between this uh and the bighorn, those are like my two top favorites out of big sky.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_01: Got it.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_01: That is a wide, wide open draw.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_01: I'm getting a little bit of like this is gonna be a little bit weird, but a lot of like musty earth, but there's a hint of black cherry in there.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: I'm getting something.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_00: You might not even know what this is, or you might not even take it.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: Did you ever have a cereal called Kix K-I-X?
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_00: Uh little, little, little, I think it's made from corn, probably.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_00: Little, little balls that were like lightly sweet on the outside.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, okay.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_00: This is making me think of God, I haven't had those in like decades.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_01: You know what was my least favorite uh cereal of all time?
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_01: Was life.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_01: I was never a fan.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I dig life.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: I think life really, yeah, yeah.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_01: I just uh we we also grew up in the family, like anything that had sugar on it, like we can't have that for breakfast.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_01: So okay, well, we're gonna go ahead and get this lit up and see how Cryptid starts off.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_01: Every cigar leaves an impression.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_00: However, it's not until you take a moment and analyze the full experience from construction to flavor to profile that you can truly appreciate it.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_01: So enjoy your cigar as you light it up.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: Take the time to toast it, smell the room notes, and experience the first notes as they come alive.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_00: In the same way, movies can tell deeper stories or show us things we haven't noticed on the surface.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: So journey with us as we take a more detailed appreciation for the craft of cigar and movie making.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_01: I was able to do it.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_01: Well, almost do it.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, I have to light up the 60 ring gauge with a single flame, see if I can do it in 30 seconds.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_01: So almost got there.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_01: All right, right out the gate, a lot of smoke output.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_01: This thing is like bellowing.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_01: A little bit of spiciness coming through on the retro, not much sweetness.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um a really intense, like how would I describe this?
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like almost kind of like a burly tobacco.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like, that's what's really coming to my mind.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_01: Like when I've smoked a pipe before, how you just have this like really like dense tobacco flavor that's mixed with like maybe a hint of savory, hint of spice, but not crazy sweet.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's kind of like a burly from a pipe that I'm getting.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: I'm getting like if you can imagine like the strongest cup of tea ever brewed.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_00: Kind of yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_01: Really interesting right out the gate.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, let's see here.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_01: We got Bob and Ginny Moncreeferon saying, Enjoying an El Mago Jaguar and a Dunbarton red meat lover.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_01: Both stellar picks.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_01: That Jaguar is a favorite of mine.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you so much.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: I believe uh we I talked with uh Bob and uh Ginny during the the week quite a bit.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I believe this is the first time they've jumped on the show.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_01: So thanks for watching.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: Mike Ross is saying that big sky stick you are reviewing is a banger.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_01: Really enjoyed it.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was it was one of those things.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I've always enjoyed it, but before we put it in the variety, I was it, I was like revisiting it.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, oh man, this is really good.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_01: We gotta we gotta highlight it.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, that being said, we have started a fresh new series.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna do three different ones of these once each and every week, going through the decade.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_01: Now, I will actually hand this over to Curtis because this was your idea.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_01: I love the idea.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_01: So, uh, what are we talking about today?
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, you know, when you get far enough away from uh a decade, and we love to compartmentalize things by decades, why not?
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you you can kind of start to like recognize that the decade has an identity to a degree, and you're like, okay, one of the major uh pieces of culture or an art that we can look at that reflects what the culture was uh at the time is movies.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_00: And so I I was like, you know, what is the most 80s movie ever made, or at least one of the most 80s movies ever made?
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_00: Because you know, there's probably several that would be contenders for something like this, yeah.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: But uh it was hard not to go with Top Gun.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes, and it was it was an excellent pick.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_01: This is as 80s as you get.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um that means I had to watch it again.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and full disclosure, like it is I love 80s movies.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, Breakfast Club, Ferris Bueller.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I absolutely love them.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_01: But I actually had not seen the original Top Gun, I think until two years ago, a year and a half ago was the first time I've seen it.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_01: So, second time going through, and I completely forgot until the movie started.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_01: Tony Scott directed this movie.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_01: Completely forgot.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm sure everyone knows this, but uh Top Gun 1986 has a shocking rating of only PG.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it is one hour and 49 minutes.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_01: A Top Gun Naval Fighter Weapons School is where the best of the best train to refine their elite fight flying skills.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_01: When Hotshot Flyer pilot Maverick is sent to the school, his reckless attitude and cocky demeanor put him at odds with other pilots, especially the cool and collected Iceman.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_01: Big names include Tim Robbins, Val Kilmer, Tom Cruise, Kelly McGillis, uh Anthony Edwards, and the list goes on.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so how many times have you seen this movie, do you think?
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I don't know.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_00: A handful.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: It was never like a personal favorite, so it's not like I have it in my collection at home and and re-watch it all the time.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: I've maybe seen it five times, including last night.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_00: Something like that.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_01: Do you do you remember if like the first time you watched this movie?
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: I don't remember specifically now.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I mean, I do remember uh I I was probably a teenager.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um and uh you know, one of the things that we'll talk about tonight is the way that uh my impressions of the movie have changed between then and now.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_00: Because I definitely felt different about this movie when I was younger than I than I do now.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and I think that's part of it.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, in terms of going through decades and the quintessential time, um I always like it when I revisit a movie, and then I was like, you know what?
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_01: I still really like it, it still really holds up.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but more often than not, I'll be like, yeah, I was in a different mindset back then, or I gave it a pass because of XYZ.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, this movie, as much as it is like the all one of the ultimate 80s movies, because I didn't grow up watching it, I have probably have a little bit different of a view on it just because I saw it later.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um I'm interested to get into it, but I will also say for anyone watching, we have chosen Top Gun to talk about tonight.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_01: So we'd love to know your opinions, but also what are other quintessential 80s movies that you think would also like fit in this slot besides Top Gun?
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_01: So put down that comment.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_01: I would love to know.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, okay, but overall, broad strokes.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: What what are your thoughts in of 2026 Curtis Bailey now watching it?
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think it's possible to kind of like take two approaches to this movie.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_00: One is to just meet it on its own level, take it, you know, completely sincerely, you know, uh uh buy into the kind of almost soap opera-ish drama that's going on, you know, cheer when the bad guys lose, or cheer when the bad guys uh get defeated, uh, you know, be sad along with Maverick when Goose dies.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like you can you can buy you just ride the wave with this movie.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't begrudge anybody for wanting to do that.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: Uh or you can watch it with the remove where you're like, oh, uh some of this action is really poorly shot, and yes, characterization is kind of thin, and um uh it's uh it doesn't realize how goofy it is unintentionally, uh, and you know, uh the not so subtle intentional or unintentional homoeroticism, you know, there's just like so much stuff that you can like pick out of this movie.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like right now I sit somewhere around 30% the sincere interpretation and 70% the other.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, because there are still times where I'm like, okay, if I stop being a hypoanalytical nerd about this kind of stuff, and I just let the movie do what it's doing, it's not all bad.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_00: It really is.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, okay.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, that's kind of where I sit, I guess.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I would say, um, I don't know if I'm 30% in finding sincerity.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_01: I will enjoy it at 30%.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I can look at this movie and the issues that I have with it, I can still be like, it's the it's a great 80s movie.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's that's you know, that's part of what we're talking about, of kind of just like that 80s feel.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but honestly, this movie does not deserve the response I feel like it's trying to pull you into, and that being like the super emotional response to Goose's death, the intense action scenes, I'm glad you brought up because we a few episodes ago we talked about can't remember what video movie it was.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but we were both giving it high praise for being like, as much as this is happening here and this is happening here, it's not really disorienting.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you can understand what's happening.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_01: This action scenes, they are so disorienting.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, and I'm like, if you were trying to watch this with subtitles or like no commentary, what these pilots are saying, you'd have no idea what is happening.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it definitely feels like you know, there are certainly specific things that had to happen with the plane sequences in the script where they're like, okay, we'll capture specific shots for that stuff.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_00: And almost all the rest of it is just like, hey guys, just go get some b-roll of just shoot, yeah, just shoot, you know, stuff of planes flying around each other, near each other, past each other, and we'll just we'll just edit it in there.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_00: It'll it'll be fine.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: It'll be fine.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_01: And and and part of you, I was uh like me, I was like scratching my head.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, am I just like a moron that's not really understanding?
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_01: Like, these are the technical terms, and this is why the situation is stressful.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_01: And then I'm like, yeah, but I would assume the average American watching this doesn't understand all the like technicalities of flying in this high-tech flying school.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_01: So at the same time, I'm like, it's not really these moments of uh, I think like Viper and uh I'm trying to remember the other co-sign for the um the call sign gesture, yes, Michael Iron side.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_01: And the whole time he's like you're seeing like heads go back and forth, and these planes are going around, and he's like, damn it, Maverick, and you're like, What?
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_01: What's he even doing?
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what's the problem?
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, um, it's mostly incomprehensible.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, Chris Costman said, sorry, I hated Top Gun.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's fair.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I don't hate it, but honestly, I don't care for it.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I think too, what's wild to me is that I personally I really like Tony Scott as a director.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_01: I like some of the stuff he's done.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_01: And is this being herald said as such a like a big movie, huge movie?
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, he definitely got better later on.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_01: This is definitely one of his earlier things for sure.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, this movie was uh significant in a handful of ways because um it uh it kind of kicked off.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's either the first or among the very first of films produced by Don Simpson and Jerry Bruckheimer, and those guys would go on to be super huge into the 90s with doing this kind of like uh slick made for as mass an audience as possible, you know, uh not very thoughtful, just you know, uh you know, get butts in the seats with, you know, yeah sexy dudes doing stuff.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, they they ended up making stuff like um uh The Rock and uh Um Gosh, uh Days of Thunder, I think was another one of theirs.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um uh my brain is failing me.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, they did this kind of thing for like a decade and a half until uh Don Simpson snorted too much Coke and found himself six feet under.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um and uh, you know, whether you want to say that this um you know type of movie making is a uh a good or bad thing, it was definitely popular.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, yes, it it made those guys a bunch of money and it made a bunch of fans uh of you know uh all those kind of films like this.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, Top Gun, even though as just an artistic expression, is kind of flimflam practically.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_00: What it did for uh the business and the style of movies that were being made was kind of a big deal.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, I think that the sequel that came out, I don't know, three years ago, also has its issues, but I'm gonna say this is one of the rare occasions where I feel like the sequel is better than the original.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I I absolutely agree.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I think the story, the character story in that is more meaningful and more thoughtful.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_00: The the way that the action scenes are shot is far superior in that movie.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um and it's got it's I like the way that's structured like a heist movie.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they lay out the plan, spend a bunch of time practicing the plan, and then so you know exactly what's happening when you watch them go execute the plan.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, that's oceans 11 or whatever, right?
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's another big part of what is wrong with this movie is that you in this original one, it's focused around this training school of like, you know, this and that, and there's the drama, and there's the girl, and then you know, it's just training, and then all of a sudden, by the way, now that you graduated, here's some orders, and this is the real thing now, boys.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_01: It's such a shift of what we've been focusing on that I'm like, what?
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm like, I'm sorry, you weren't pulling me in that direction, so I feel like I've been 180'd and I don't really care.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's part of the issue.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's it's it's a uh a final conflict.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, obviously it relates to Maverick's like, you know, internal psychology issues about getting over the thing with his dad and goose, and you know, does he have what it takes?
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like that's a through line in the whole movie.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, as far as the the uh conflict, it it is, you know, just a sort of like we gotta have an excuse for these guys to, you know, get in combat.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_00: So m Pete Mitchell can show his stuff and let's okay, fine.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it functions, and it's you know.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, and it's the same as in the sequel.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_00: They don't mention anything about like country names or political affiliation or anything.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's just the vaguest possible, hey, there's some bad guys that go deal with them.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so a few comments here.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_01: Chris is saying I'd rather watch Red Tales.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_01: And uh Bob is saying it's it's a uh in its day, it was pretty good.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and and I think that I I will say that is there is a lot to be said of putting yourself in that mindset and that time of when it first came out.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_01: And like I said, there's a lot of movies that came out when I was growing older, uh go uh growing up, and I saw it in the theater, and I was like, this is a really good movie.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_01: And then five years later, I'm like, ah, I don't know.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_01: So there is a lot about that.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_01: I will say, um, this is a very young Tom Cruise, it's a very young, younger-ish Val Kilmer.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_01: What do you feel about their performance, their dynamic, that whole thing?
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: Well, one of the things I was alluding to earlier when I said that my opinion on this movie has changed.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_00: I remember when I was younger, I thought Iceman was a jerk because you know he's positioned that way kind of in the script.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: He's the the the guy who causes trouble for our hero, right?
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: Maverick.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: And uh over time I was like, you know what?
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_00: Iceman is 100% right every time that he opens his mouth.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_00: I noticed that too.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_00: This Maverick dude is a dangerous idiot.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_01: Well, yeah, he's kind of a moron on a lot of stuff.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I noticed that, especially like Goose Dice, and so Maverick's like, I think I'm gonna quit.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_01: And there's that really quick scene in the locker, and like Val Kilmer actually does, I feel like, a pretty good job in his delivery when he's like that scene.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_01: Everyone liked him.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, see, he's not just a jerk to be a jerk.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like, um, so when the main tagline is you could be my wingman any day, yeah, it's just like, oh, okay.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_01: Like it just it you sacrifice sincerity for one-liners and like hip talk of the 80s.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, I mean, like I said, that's you know, that's what this movie is mostly trying to be is like the um the cinematic equivalent of uh you know a kick-ass uh photo of a Lamborghini on your trapper keeper or you know, whatever.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's it's uh uh because I you know it you can sum it up by looking at the the opening credits.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_00: You know, danger zone playing on top of you know cool airplane stuff happening.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's what this movie wants to be.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_01: I think they should have probably changed it to highway to the training zone because most of it is just training.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_01: Uh let's see, Chris says, which is why Iceman became an ad admiral and Maverick uh stagnated in the sequel.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought that the I I mean the the way that that movie followed through on that that story um felt uh like if you're gonna go out of your way to make another Top Gun movie, that's about as sensible a way to approach it.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_01: I agree.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I agree.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_01: Now, in the midst of like the tension there, we have the friendship with Maverick and Goose, and then you also have this uh romantic progression and relationship he has.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um let's first start with thoughts on the the romantic side of this movie.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's rough for me.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think I mean the the movie seems to be trying to set up that she falls for this guy just because she feels uh lured in by his um uh his confidence, if you want to call it that.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_00: You know, maybe he's arrogant, uh by his conf his his his confidence and his skill and you know all that kind of stuff.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_00: But watching it through I'm now 47-year-old eyes and you know, seeing the way that this guy behaves and wins her over, I'm like, this is kind of gross.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_00: Like he's just he's he's negging her and making all kinds of assumptions.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_00: He shows up at her house and like, I'm gonna take a shower in your shower.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what's wrong with this guy?
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, yeah.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I understand why, as like, you know, the sort of you know, um, dude who wants to make marks on his bedpost, you know, Maverick wants this woman.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_00: I think the movie does a very thin job of justifying why she reciprocates.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's like come on, dude.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_00: She she as a character she deserves better.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I would agree with that.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like this is one of those cases of it does less to show and give reason why you should be rooting for Maverick in his endeavors and his love life, and more of like, well, you know, he's Tom Cruise, so he's the hero.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_01: And since he's the hero, you guys should root for him to get with the girl and get to the main goal.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_01: And and I feel like that's a common trope in action movies.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, for sure.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_00: And well, and it was it was a thing with a lot of uh romantic comedies in the 80s and 90s, too.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_01: Then later, like spilled into Michael Bay movies and stuff like that.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Bob says, Jenny says that she would have chosen Iceman over Maverick.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_01: He's a lot more, dare I say, admirable, yeah.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, for sure.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and and yeah, you it's kind of poised.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_01: The characters that are set in this movie, the ones we're talking about right now, it's poised to be like, okay, let's just set the tone.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_01: Like, this is the guy that's the jerk, and this is the hero, and this is the girl.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_01: We're not gonna necessarily show you.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_01: And the best you can is like like you were saying, the shower scene, or even when they first meet and he pulls a line on her, and then he's like, I'm gonna walk in the ladies' room because I'm not gonna lie.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um I play, I play it close to the edge, and just like he's a maverick, yeah.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_01: It's stuff like that, where it's like, all right.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and even like Iceman's big reason of having some sort of issue with him is just I heard about you.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_01: And apparently everyone's heard about him, but like immediately the those like fall have those characters slip into those slots right away is really a big problem, I think, in this movie.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_01: And even like the beginning montage, like he does in the beginning when he's like finally lands his plane and the general guy or whatever, he's like, You're a menace, and blah blah blah blah blah blah.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_01: Again, it's so disorienting.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, wait, okay, why is why is he this?
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_01: And then all of a sudden, he's such an awful guy, that's why you're getting the one slot to go to this school, and it's like I don't know.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_01: Stuff like that, I have an issue with it's uh it's pretty interesting.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um on the on the on the flip side, I don't really have any major complaints about the goose and maverick relationship.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_00: I think that to the degree that it's in there, their they their friendship feels pretty believable, and they have you know personalities that you know kind of align, you know, they're not the same personality, but you know, they they make sense that they fit together as friends and stuff like that.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_00: The thing that's a little maybe kind of thin and weird to me about it is uh you know, there's a couple times where um Maverick does something that jeopardizes their their situation in the Top Gun Academy, and Maverick's like, I'll never let that happen again.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_00: And then something happens and he's like, I'll never let that happen again.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_00: It's like Goose, come on, get out.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um and then uh and then after Goose dies, sorry, spoilers for a 40-year-old movie.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um he goes, he takes uh Goose's um things, uh like a box of his stuff to give to his wife, I guess.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_00: And that whole scene where um you know they're lamenting over Goose's death, she's trying to console him.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, ew.
• 30:02
  unknown: Right.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like, come on, that's that was her husband, the father of her child, and the movie's only thing that it feels like it can say is he would have loved flying with you, or he would have hated flying without you.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's like, come on, dude, come on.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, why why is he the one that slumped like the body language, and she's throwing her her arms around him, like helping him?
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um I also was wondering, I was like, okay, so then what was the in the beginning?
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if this is just a continuity thing, but they go to the bar and Tom Cruise hits on the main girl, but they like both say like 20 bucks says like one of us will like right there, like either one of us will see who can score, basically.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like they were just bettering on whether Maverick would or wouldn't.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's what at first I was like, what's what's happening here?
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, like many things that it could actually hit Sincere uh are the afterthoughts of this movie, and I think that is part of its part of its issue for sure.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um let's see here.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Chris says, My best friend is a Navy pilot and said buzzing the tower would 100% get you a dishonorable discharge.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_01: He he loses his mind.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I believe it.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_01: That was so dumb.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_01: Like, ha ha ha ha ha at the end, here's another coffee.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, son of a bitch.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, what?
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_01: There's a there's a lot of that in here that is just like chalked up to oh, well, that's Maverick.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's it's a lot of you know, movie dudes, you know, like like I said, you know, those late mid mid-late 80s super coked up movie producers just wanting to do movie-ass things, and they're like, you know, so you know, regulations right out the window.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_00: Another thing we were talking about, the dog fighting scenes earlier, you know, there'll be several sequences in that movie, and I understand why they did it because we're trying to fit stuff into the frame of a movie, but like they don't follow each other this closely in supersonic jets.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like, that's just not how that works.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_00: Especially if you target target enemies from miles away, especially if you're gonna hit the brakes and just fly over.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so really quick, uh, let's take a brief pause and talk about the cryptid.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_01: We're about second-third right here.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_01: Once again, made by Big Sky Cigars, uh, from Nicaragua, Mexican San Andreas Maduro.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_01: This thing is a smokestack.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like this is the type of cigar you light up and you're like, this is a cigar.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like if you feel like this is something you'd see in a movie in terms of its its uh Vitola, its smoke output, the whole thing.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um in terms of flavor notes and such, what do you think about it?
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's gotten a little bit more rounded out because when we lit up, you know, it wasn't spicy, but it was still punchy, you know.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_00: There was you know, kind of bright, almost acidic type things going on in the palate.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_00: And now I feel like that stuff is still kind of there, a little muted, and there's now a new, like kind of rounder, richer, I don't know why quite what flavor to uh uh attached to that because it's reminded me of a bunch of things, but does that make sense?
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_01: It does, it does, especially the roundness, because uh on one side you got a little bit of spiciness, then you got a little bit of like that acidic side that you're talking about, and then also like earthy savoriness.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_01: And this is one of those cigars we've had a few of them on this channel where it's not specific, so specific of like, oh, this is you know, candied carrots, and this is this is more of just like a general, like kind of like profile, but it's a very well-rounded profile, so it's it's definitely a satisfying one.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_01: It's not too sharp, it's not too much in the treble side or base side, it's kind of going all over the place.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I agree.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_01: But it's nicely balanced, very nicely balanced, a little bit of sweetness too.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and excellent burn.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like this thing I haven't actually touched up at all.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I'm excited to see as this continues.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_01: From what I understand, I think maybe 2027, Big Sky is finally going to be coming out with a continuation of the Cryptid series with a new monster-ish new blend type stuff.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm excited for it.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um cool, but definitely an excellent cigar for sure.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_01: I agree.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, let's see here.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_01: Mike Ross says the music was the highlight.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think the music is what makes it feel so 80s, and there's a there's a to me a level of charming that I find about what do you think?
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_00: Uh yeah, I think I agree with that.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, it is amusing a little bit though, like you know, how much they keep going back to uh take my breath away.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, oh, that's just like the theme song for this.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_00: Anytime we need to do the relationship scenes.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I mean, yeah, it was it was an iconic thing, you know.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's one of the main kind of like lasting impressions of this movie is how the music was used and the specific song choices.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_00: So um, you know, it's funny, yeah, you can get a lot of mileage in a movie like this out of two pop songs.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and I mean obviously there's other music you're we we can't forget the uh uh ineffable playing with the boys on during the volleyball sequence.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm not gonna lie.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I the the second time I watched this movie for this podcast was today.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_01: And uh I did it kind of when I got off of most of the work and such, and I was like, okay, I'm gonna take some time.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_01: I don't have time to watch the entire movie, so there are moments I'm gonna have to skip past the volleyball scene.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, yeah, I don't need to see that again.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's not integral to the plot.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_01: I'm good.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um the scene I thought was ridiculous.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_01: You you talk about um take my breath away, and it's leading into when he's like finds a report that she wrote, and he's like, ah, I mean, like gets on his bike and then like follow that whole confession on the street.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, ooh, it's it's not good.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_01: It's not good.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_01: That uh that is definitely one of those like speeches that I think was meant to hit harder than it came across.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_01: It did not work for me.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and it comes immediately after, you know, she comes out to talk to him and uh talking about like you know, my evaluation of your performance was spot on, or something like that.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_00: And he's just revving his engine and going, I can't hear you, like he's a 13-year-old.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, why do you like this guy?
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_01: Because he's Tom Cruise, he flies by the seat of his pants.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, no, it's uh and then thing too is you got to think about it.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_01: Tony Scott is a very intentional director, so I think the all these things like you're talking about revving the engine and talk to me, goose, and all these things are meant to enrich this person's character, but maybe there should have been like stop and think of what type of character are we actually creating?
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_01: Where is the uh investment into this character?
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_01: Right, yeah.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Chris is saying, I still can't get over the ridiculous volleyball scene.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, why is he wearing jeans?
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_00: Who plays volleyball in jeans?
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_01: Tom Cruise does.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_01: You know what?
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_01: You know what's wild is that this movie was the movie he made right after Legend.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_01: Did you ever see Legend?
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_00: I have, but it was a very long time ago.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_00: I don't remember it super well.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's that's also very, very rough.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_01: Perhaps a bit more rough.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_00: That one was uh Ridley Scott.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_01: And Tim Curry was in it.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_00: And uh uh was it Mia Sarah?
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, Ferris's girlfriend, yeah, exactly.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_01: That's how I've always known her.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, so um as a whole, we were supposed to, and this is where also the movie was kind of losing me, is that okay, he's a hotshot pilot who takes risks and is sent to school because of his talents.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_01: But I also am trying to figure out is this a compelling enough, like major dramatic question?
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_01: Enough to pull you in.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I feel like the major dramatic question of this movie is will Maverick get over or I guess out from underneath the shadow of his father's reputation and be able to push aside the death of his friend to really step up and do what he needs to do for his wingman?
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's kind of a flat question to me, like from the beginning.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I don't know.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_01: What are your thoughts?
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_00: Uh yeah, I mean, I think it functions, you know, it does its job in the movie, but um it's one of those things where, you know, with a movie like this where the style is more important than the substance, it it seems pretty clear that I mean I would think that they intentionally went for a major dramatic question that was pretty basic and also pretty obvious that yes, of course, he's gonna do it because look at it, look at the movie poster, like you know, of course.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right, right.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's probably what's going on.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, and and again, um we've talked about this time and time again on the podcast.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_01: If you can't create enough of a compelling character, then your struggle's not gonna be big enough.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_01: You're you're I guess villain or protagon uh sorry, antagonist, and whether that's a concept or not, I feel like in this movie it's a little more of a concept than it is like a physical like manifestation.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's gonna be weak to me.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think feel like it really holds water.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_01: So the triumphant, you know, uh Yavin for we did it, we did it scene at the end.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_01: Right, um, just is like, okay, yeah, sure you did it, but it just I don't know.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_01: It didn't bring me there, and it wasn't enough to make it home for me.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, um it it feels like you know, it's basically doing the the bare minimum of dramatic structure setup in order to hang all these, you know, cool dudes doing cool stuff, getting the chicks kind of, you know, that's like yeah, I feel like that's what's going on.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_01: No, okay.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_00: No, go ahead.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I was gonna say, now I I'm not completely numb to this type of formula, and that being is that if anything, I think much appreciation of this movie for me personally would fall into a guilty pleasure aspect, and we've talked about this before, movies that are guilty pleasures.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's just not the right like tone or flavor for me to really jump into it, but there are a handful of movies that are far more stylized that have less story substance like this that I'm like, yeah, but it's a great movie.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_01: I think in this type of sense, it really just depends on where that like moves for someone, and I think that's why it hits for other people, and other people don't like it.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_01: That's yeah, yeah.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_00: I I I think you're right.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_00: You know, does whatever movie's particular brand of stylization hit your wavelength?
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, for a lot of people, top down might be exactly that, and like I got no problem with that.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like, cool.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um I I wanted to mention real quick, um, you know, since we picked this uh as you know a very significant or a movie that like really represents the 80s, um, you know, there's not a lot of stuff in here about like you know, uh contemporary uh you know 80s culture like you might get out of like a John Hughes movie or something like that.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_00: But I think one of the things that does really push it into this really represents the 80s kind of thing is um the sort of very superficial militarism.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I mean the Navy unapologetically helped to you know get this movie made and they saw it as a recruiting tool.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_00: So just that whole kind of like, you know, uh America kicks butt, and here's our best Americans doing the best, you know, butt kicking.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, I feel like that's definitely uh feels like a very 80s thing.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_00: There are other movies that came out this decade that have stuff like that going on, like Iron Eagle.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if you ever saw that.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's that's way more ridiculous than this.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, uh a teenager conspires with uh uh uh uh an officer on the base to fly to the Middle East and single-handedly rescue his captured father.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's um so uh I don't know.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, but uh as far as like things that, you know, obviously the music is a big you know part of the flavor of the 80s-ness of this.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um and you know, like I said, I think the the the way that it's you know basically a recruitment tool for the Navy also kind of folds neatly into what America's attitude was kind of like in the 80s, you know, the Reagan coming in after Jimmy Carter being seen as a much tougher, more you know, not you know, wimpy kind of you know, uh head of the country.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_00: What do you think about that?
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_00: And or is there any other stuff like, okay, this is why this movie is so 80s?
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, I think that's a great question.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um very quickly, let me pull up a comment here and then I'll I'll go ahead and answer that.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's a good one.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_01: Bob says the volleyball scene was for the ladies to keep them in their seat during the duration of the movie date.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_01: Which definitely we got Chris like America! Yeah.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I would agree.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_01: And honestly, that kind of context uh also I think shines a new light on why the movie opens the way it does, and you have this long credit scene, and you have like planes taking off and dudes in jumper suits being like, yeah, and stuff like that, like um that type of thing.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_01: That totally makes sense.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_01: I would say some of the elements that scream the most 80s to me, one is the dialogue for sure.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_01: The way these lines are delivered, and the way it's kind of just I feel like when you when you have 80s action films, and it kind of carried over in the beginning 90s, but you had these just kind of like matter of fact lines that you're just supposed to accept without any question or anything like that.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of the dialogue that Iceman has with Tom Cruise, in a way, has a similar feeling.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like when you have snappy dialogue in the 30s and 40s, you're trying to follow some of the context because they'll say something and be like, and it's like That line doesn't, I think, mean as much as it used to.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_01: Now, especially when they're like giving side comments to like what during like meetings and stuff.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_01: So I feel like those types of things, um, I feel like this is also probably one of the more famous representations of like our hero struggling.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_01: How is he gonna get out of this at the end?
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_01: He's going in a tailspin, and then he grabs the dog tags, is like, talk to me, goose.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_01: It's like this callback sign of like this is how it's gonna pull him in.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like that I see a lot of other movies building on that type of concept.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so I think maybe just like a lot of the dialogue, um, and the way maybe back then, like we were talking about the the relationship between uh him and his girl, and I'm trying to remember Charlie.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_01: Charlie.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_01: See, that's how much her she was memorable as a character.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_01: Charlie, uh, and some of it you're supposed to expect, and I we've gone over those reasons, but also I feel like in the 80s it's just like you see a lot of action movies where the dude's like, hey, and then it's like, yeah, okay, I'm attracted to this guy now, or vice versa.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_01: And so those elements I think really scream scream like 1986 to me.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that makes sense.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you're right, there's definitely a lot of dialogue in here that's just like they're just barking cliches at each other.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, yes, your ego's writing checks, your body can't cash, and you know, all that kind of thing.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's yeah, for sure.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I think part of that is the flavor I was talking about, and it obviously created enough of a following where movies mimicked it, people saw this as such an iconic thing.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I just don't know how groundbreaking it was compared to other movies of its time.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_01: Like, was this one of the first like major lean-intos on that, or is it like we just seen this in other action films by 1986?
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_01: Tony Scott wanted to do it better.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like right.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think the thing that makes Top Gun different from the its action peers in the 80s that preceded it is that um this was the the one that like really laid a big thick layer of like pretty simplistic, almost like melodrama in there, uh you know, with uh the the way everything kind of falls apart after Goose's death, the way the love story is handled.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_00: My wife was just commenting last night because she knew I was watching this movie.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_00: She said, I hated this because uh it was what all my girlfriends wanted to watch at the sleepovers because they bought into the you know uh the the romance.
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_00: I feel it feels gross saying that.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_00: It was this movie was popular with with like teenage, you know, adolescent girls because of the way that the sort of like you know, broad, simplistic love story.
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_00: And of course, you know, when people are younger, you you always have bad taste in the opposite sex, like you're attracted to all the wrong things.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_00: So like that kind of makes sense to me that you know this movie would be appealing to to young girls like that.
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_00: But um this was the movie that really, I think, you know, more so than any other prior to it, kind of brought that sort of like you know, dime store drama, melodrama romance thing to a big action movie like this.
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like that's gotta be a a part of like what made it stand out and you know become kind of the big ass 80s deal that it is.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_01: No, I would agree with that for sure.
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and actually, Bob has a comment here that was kind of leading me into something I wanted to talk about as well.
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_01: He says the best part of the movie was the Black Porsche 356 speedster Kelly McGinnic drove.
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_00: This is a sexy car.
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_01: It is it is pretty nice, yeah.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_01: And and I think the reason at the beginning of this episode I had mentioned I think that the sequel is better, and I think not because the plot is so much better.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it might be a little bit, but it's more to do so is that you're dealing with a spectacle that can be very impressive, and that being like jets in flight, dog fights, like fast cars, all these types of things.
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like the the way it's executed in the sequel is intriguing to me because they did the research, they did the stunts, even their camera work, how like they had like an inset camera in the actual cockpit of when they're like flying, stuff like that.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_01: And then we move from this original being disorienting, confusing, and um ultimately by the fourth training montage, by the fourth dogfight, I'm like, sure, let's get on with it.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like, it just keeps on going.
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas the the sequel's actually like, oh, this is intriguing.
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_01: I I can follow it, I can track it.
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I've I mean, just a minute uh today we posted a reel about you saying, like, with action movies, you're getting pummeled so much that you just get numb to it.
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_01: That's honestly what was happening in what's supposed to be the ooh and ah moments of action in this movie.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I started checking out.
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I I I alluded to this at the start.
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_00: I think one of the other things that really defines this as a an 80s or at least a very 80s feeling movie to me is what seems to be the movie's complete unawareness of how goofy its uh approach to sex type stuff is.
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_00: For example, like I said, we have a we have a romantic relationship and we get to see you know them getting together, but it's all private, right?
• 49:33
  SPEAKER_00: Twice in this movie, side characters refer to getting a heart on at non-sexual stuff.
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_00: Twice.
• 49:45
  SPEAKER_00: They put that in the script.
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_00: They did, they did.
• 49:49
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, it's it's it's weird.
• 49:51
  SPEAKER_00: Like when you really look at it at arm's length, again, the playing with the boys and the volleyball scene and all this kind of stuff, either just like they thought that this was like super cool, manly stuff that they were doing.
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_01: And borderline gladiator movie.
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, kind of so yeah, anyway.
• 50:09
  SPEAKER_01: I I'll never forget the first time I watched this like two years ago, and the scene that I just I lost it is when Iceman and him are in the confrontation, and Iceman does that like smile and like the bike.
• 50:21
  SPEAKER_01: What is going on?
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and you're right.
• 50:25
  SPEAKER_01: Uh every scene, apparently, if you're in flight or if you're in the office or if you're in the locker room, you gotta be drenched in sweat.
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_01: Like, yeah, that's just how it is.
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and then I guess maybe we should be glad that our taxpayer dollars are not going to air conditioning in the Navy, uh, whatever.
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and then, of course, there's the line, I want those some butts.
• 50:47
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 50:49
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 50:49
  SPEAKER_01: So uh is there anything else you want to mention?
• 50:51
  SPEAKER_01: I know we're kind of coming to the end here, uh and we gotta talk a little bit more about cryptid, but uh anything we did not talk about.
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, this is just a minor thing, but uh, you know, there's a couple bits of music in this that are um, you know, we're actual score written for the movie.
• 51:07
  SPEAKER_00: There's that kind of you know, famous they reuse it in the sequel where there's that um, you know, dong and you know the all that's kind of cool.
• 51:15
  SPEAKER_00: But I actually kind of dig the uh there's a high they use it one other time in the movie, I can't remember what it was, but as the actual credits start rolling after they give all the actors their close-ups, yeah, there's this kind of high energy song that plays, and I think that song kind of rips, it's pretty cool.
• 51:31
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know what it is.
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_00: I can't remember what it's I don't know if it was written for this movie or if they pulled it from somewhere else.
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, hey, if you're gonna finish out a wild ass 80s movie with a kick-ass song like that, then cool.
• 51:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 51:43
  SPEAKER_01: No, I would agree with that for sure.
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_01: For sure.
• 51:46
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so final third on cryptid.
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, in terms of construction, in terms of smoke output, this is the type of cigar that I'm like completely satisfied with.
• 51:57
  SPEAKER_01: Like I want cigars to perform this well.
• 52:00
  SPEAKER_01: I think there's a little bit of sweetness throughout, but it wouldn't be the most predominant note.
• 52:05
  SPEAKER_01: Definitely more earthy, kind of like uh petricor type deal going on.
• 52:13
  SPEAKER_01: A little bit of savoriness, a little bit of spiciness up front and towards the end.
• 52:17
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but overall, a really good, like well-rounded cigar, a really good Mexican San Andreas representation, especially for a 60 gauge.
• 52:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I know we don't smoke a lot of 60 gauges, and I think they have to perform something specific, and I think this one does it pretty well.
• 52:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I agree.
• 52:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's as we get into the end here, it remains extremely well balanced, really, really nice blend of flavor that's um you just kind of like it's almost addictive when we don't want it to go back to it.
• 52:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, 100%.
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and it's just man, smoke production is nuts.
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_01: So, as we always do, uh, we're gonna be voting.
• 52:56
  SPEAKER_01: Me and Curtis don't know what we're gonna be putting on our our list here, but from a scale from one to ten, we're gonna write down our uh rating for the cryptid by Big Sky Cigars.
• 53:07
  SPEAKER_00: Blank.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_00: Nothing written on this paper.
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_01: This is not a trick.
• 53:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so we're gonna go and write down the number and see where we land out of a scale from one to ten.
• 53:18
  SPEAKER_01: I have my number.
• 53:20
  SPEAKER_01: I have a eight, and he's got 8.5.
• 53:24
  SPEAKER_01: Pretty close, pretty close.
• 53:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, this is a definite like need to smoke, experience the cigar.
• 53:29
  SPEAKER_01: Don't miss out on it.
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um great blend.
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_01: So hats off to Big Sky.
• 53:34
  SPEAKER_01: Now, Top Gun from a scale from one to ten.
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_01: Where will this land?
• 53:44
  SPEAKER_01: All right, I'm putting down you got a six, but we got a five point five.
• 53:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 53:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, I think anything.
• 53:55
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I was gonna say anything below a five, I'm like, don't really want to watch it again.
• 53:59
  SPEAKER_01: There's a half a point that I'm like, sure, I'm not gonna seek this movie out.
• 54:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 54:03
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but it's not a movie I'm gonna look up to as like, wow, that was a great movie.
• 54:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 54:08
  SPEAKER_00: I for for me, like getting down into the fives and below is like, you know, movies that I think have like, you know, glaring uh, you know, structural issues or awful performances or just complete tone-deaf uh uh sensibilities, you know, stuff like that.
• 54:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like when I slagged on the Patriot, sorry.
• 54:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um but you know, this one is just it's mostly a style thing.
• 54:32
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, if you if you're not on board with the style, then you know it's it's not gonna be you know a super enjoyable watch.
• 54:39
  SPEAKER_00: And then yeah, there's the stuff like you know, how how poorly I think it handles, uh at least from Charlie's end of the side, the romantic relationship and you know, super simplistic plotting, super simplistic uh execution of the action, you know, like we said, sometimes it's like what the heck is going on?
• 54:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so you know, it's not terrible.
• 54:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, this may be the last time in my life I ever watched Top 10.
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_00: Probably probably had my fill now.
• 55:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 55:06
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and I feel like the reason it's 5.5 for me is personally, if you have such a high octane type of premise for an action movie, you probably shouldn't be bored by the third training montage.
• 55:17
  SPEAKER_01: It loses me.
• 55:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 55:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, Bob says, gonna have to try that one.
• 55:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I definitely recommend it.
• 55:23
  SPEAKER_01: I think it would be in your wheelhouse for sure.
• 55:25
  SPEAKER_01: Big Sky uh has amazing cigars out of Nicaragua, uh, Cryptid being one of my personal favorites.
• 55:31
  SPEAKER_01: So I think you'd love it.
• 55:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but yeah, and and I would also say, too, like this is the kind of the same problem I have with, let's say, the Hobbit trilogy, not Lord of the Rings, but the Hobbit trilogy.
• 55:43
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, if you spent this much money in an epic movie that this long, I shouldn't be in it in like an hour and a half and be like, don't care to watch the rest.
• 55:53
  SPEAKER_01: And so if you're the same principle applies to an action movie, I feel like.
• 55:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, okay, so we have we've talked about the 80s.
• 55:59
  SPEAKER_01: Next week we're moving on to the decade of the 90s.
• 56:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 56:03
  SPEAKER_01: And uh Curtis's uh experience in movies from the 80s and 90s are far more vast than my own.
• 56:10
  SPEAKER_01: So I've kind of just said, like, you know what?
• 56:13
  SPEAKER_01: You probably have a better grasp on this than I do.
• 56:15
  SPEAKER_01: I have quintessential nineties movies that were in technical to my childhood, but I don't know if it sums up the 90s.
• 56:21
  SPEAKER_01: So what do you what are we talking about next week?
• 56:23
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I I've got a pretty good one here.
• 56:25
  SPEAKER_00: And again, there, you know, within a decade, there's gonna be a lot of contenders, and you know, you have to kind of allow for it's like, well, we can't pick them all.
• 56:32
  SPEAKER_00: But I have thought in my head multiple times this is like the most 90s movie ever.
• 56:38
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 56:38
  SPEAKER_00: So we're gonna watch Empire Records.
• 56:40
  SPEAKER_01: Empire Records, which I'm excited to see.
• 56:42
  SPEAKER_01: I actually have not seen this movie, so this is a prime example of that.
• 56:45
  SPEAKER_01: If you guys have the opportunity to watch it before of next week, highly encourage you to do so so you can hang out, you can see what we're talking about, but also join the OGT Variety Club because one of these new cigars is what we're gonna be smoking and reviewing on the channel next week.
• 57:02
  SPEAKER_01: So there are a few spots open, jump on that.
• 57:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's been a blast, though.
• 57:06
  SPEAKER_01: It's great to be back here on the channel.
• 57:07
  SPEAKER_01: So, Curtis, thanks again for joining us today, and we will be back next week, same time.
• 57:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, man.
• 57:13
  SPEAKER_00: Good night.
• 57:14
  SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
• 57:14
  SPEAKER_01: Everyone have a great night.
• 57:16
  SPEAKER_01: We'll see you next week for Cigars and Cinema.