Latest / Deeply Well with Devi Brown / Exploring Self-Care with Charli Penn

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Exploring Self-Care with Charli Penn · Deeply Well with Devi Brown

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Speaker 1: Mm from grandmothers who whispered in their baby girl in
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Speaker 1: two fathers on dimly lit street corners, instructing young soldiers
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Speaker 1: to always keep their eyes open. You be queen, you
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Speaker 1: were fired. You will pass through centuries on the hands
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Speaker 1: of your daughters. They called you wisdom. Proverbs on the
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Speaker 1: backs of diamond eyed school children who growing into hymnals
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Speaker 1: recited by amethyst holding urban philosophers who recited neighborhood commandments
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Speaker 1: out of the windows of restored Alchemedo cheriots to keep
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Speaker 1: the warmth of their blood. Be wise, be smart, being black,
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Speaker 1: Opal Brown courts bloodstone and prayer. Be every form of
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Speaker 1: jim se King told, scribe, scribe, told son, son, told wife,
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Speaker 1: wife told her daughter, and daughter told the an this
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Speaker 1: is And the ancestors told me that you would come
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Speaker 1: to give wisdom thousands. They said you would come Dropping
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Speaker 1: Dropping gim Welcome to the Dropping Gym's podcast. I am
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Speaker 1: your host, DeBie Brown. Big thank you for spending time
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Speaker 1: with me. Every time I get to do this show
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Speaker 1: and spend time with you, I feel so grateful to
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Speaker 1: have a space to have conversations like this. You know,
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Speaker 1: Dropping Gems is all about self discovery, self investigation, observing
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Speaker 1: yourself without judgment, falling in love and indeed acceptance with yourself,
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Speaker 1: and getting some rituals and tools for the journey. So
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Speaker 1: it's my favor. Thanks for joining you know when we
1:44
Speaker 1: were younger, especially if you are somewhere around my age.
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Speaker 1: I'm a millennial, probably older into the millennial spectrum, um,
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Speaker 1: but I'm somebody that remembers the past and the future, right,
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Speaker 1: So like print media really really really important to my childhood.
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Speaker 1: Music so important to my childhood. Technology not so much.
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Speaker 1: But now we can do both, um, But I used
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Speaker 1: to really when I was younger, falls so deeply in
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Speaker 1: love with going to the bookstore, grabbing a stack of magazines,
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Speaker 1: sitting down and daydreaming and getting schooled on so many things,
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Speaker 1: you know, really being able to see a bigger picture
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Speaker 1: of what the world looked like. And my magazine stack
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Speaker 1: was always very predictable. There was always a copy of
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Speaker 1: a lore in it because at that time, especially I
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Speaker 1: was a product budding product order couldn't really get products,
2:37
Speaker 1: but I daydreamed about them and what they could do
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Speaker 1: and vibe in the source were big parts of my childhood. Uh.
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Speaker 1: Usually because of Tupac, I was searching for him in
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Speaker 1: all the pages. Uh. And then a magazine that was
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Speaker 1: always at the top of my stack was Essence Magazine.
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Speaker 1: I remember opening that magazine. Originally my Auntie would always
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Speaker 1: have copies and then I would speak it out for myself.
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Speaker 1: And I remember opening an Essence magazine and it really
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Speaker 1: giving me a deeper understanding of the kind of womanhood
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Speaker 1: I wanted to connect to, you know, being able to
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Speaker 1: see not just the women in the pages that were
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Speaker 1: sometimes the beautiful models, but the cover stories and the
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Speaker 1: writers of Essence, you know, the incredible women that were
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Speaker 1: behind the magazine. I was always so deeply inspired by
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Speaker 1: the way that they took up space and spoke the truth,
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Speaker 1: and then also by all the gorgeous photos in the magazine.
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Speaker 1: You know, it really spoke to an elegance that I
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Speaker 1: didn't always get to see up close, the poise that
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Speaker 1: I didn't always have access to, and also amazing products
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Speaker 1: and recommendations and interviews. And it was a magazine that
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Speaker 1: really lit a spark inside of me. And so when
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Speaker 1: I think about our guest today, I'm really excited to
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Speaker 1: share with you. Her name is Charlie Pin, and I'm
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Speaker 1: sure so many of You guys are already connected to
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Speaker 1: her beautiful work that she does not only within Essence
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Speaker 1: Magazine but also as the host of the two time
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Speaker 1: Webbing nominated Yes Girl podcast, a staple on Instagram. Love
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Speaker 1: her page, but I love Charlie's spirit of exploration. You know.
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Speaker 1: One of the things that she does so beautifully is
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Speaker 1: really share so many wellness and mindfulness tools and products
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Speaker 1: through Essence, not just digitally but also in print and
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Speaker 1: at all the events that they do. And it gives
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Speaker 1: women an opportunity to connect with what I connected with
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Speaker 1: when I was younger, this expansion, this ability to daydream
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Speaker 1: about a higher version of yourself what that would look
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Speaker 1: or feel like. So today's show, we are going to
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Speaker 1: be diving into how does one even connect with all
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Speaker 1: these things and predict trends in this way and know
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Speaker 1: how to show up powerfully for the community of women
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Speaker 1: that follow. So on today's show, we're gonna be talking
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Speaker 1: with journalist, editor, and writer Charlie Penn. She's the Lifestyle
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Speaker 1: Director at Essence Magazine. She oversees the brand's vision for
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Speaker 1: the vertical across all platforms. She's also the publication's resident
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Speaker 1: love and wellness guru. And she has never one to
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Speaker 1: wear just one cute hat. Pen also co host the
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Speaker 1: Essence two time Webbing nominated Yes Girl podcast, and she
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Speaker 1: has covered women's lifestyle content for over sixteen years and
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Speaker 1: devoted her public speaking appearances to promoting healthy relationships and
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Speaker 1: balance living. Pen is also a proud wife and dog
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Speaker 1: mom who resides in her home in New Jersey. And
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Speaker 1: we're going to dive into this a little bit more,
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Speaker 1: but she is also the amazing lifestyle editor that had
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Speaker 1: me featured this month in Essences gorgeous magazine with the
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Speaker 1: cover of Zindaia. It's so beautiful and I get to
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Speaker 1: speak to Black Joy in that issue. So we'll unwrap
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Speaker 1: that a little bit more a little bit later without
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Speaker 1: further ado. Welcome to the show, Charlie, Hey bru, thank
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Speaker 1: you so much for having me moment. I know, I mean,
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Speaker 1: first of all, let's just say I am gracing the
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Speaker 1: issue of Essence magazine this month. Oh my gosh, thank
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Speaker 1: you for that. That was such a gorgeous article on joy.
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Speaker 1: You're so welcome, and thank you for blessing the audience
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Speaker 1: and our reader with your inner joy. Right because, like
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Speaker 1: we talked about, that's why I had to have you
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Speaker 1: in that piece because you you know, you radiate all
6:34
Speaker 1: those things. And we had the club that the year right,
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Speaker 1: thank you. We had such a fun conversation that day two.
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Speaker 1: I was like, oh, that's how I knew. I was like,
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Speaker 1: I gotta get her on the podcast because we were
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Speaker 1: just everything that we said. It was like, yes, oh right, sister,
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Speaker 1: I feel that my soul I received it. We were
6:52
Speaker 1: having it was Kendred spirit moment. Yeah, yeah really, And
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Speaker 1: I was thinking about, you know, the very first time
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Speaker 1: that we met. I think at this point it maybe
7:01
Speaker 1: it was five years ago, which is insane. We were
7:05
Speaker 1: in the DC area, I think we were actually closer
7:08
Speaker 1: to Baltimore, and we're staying at this gorgeous hotel. Leslie
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Speaker 1: Cruz had put together this wonderful like like influencer campaign
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Speaker 1: around wellness with Radia Rhodes from Evoke Life, and we
7:20
Speaker 1: all got to like drive cars to d C and
7:23
Speaker 1: then we went to this huge hotel and we had
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Speaker 1: I mean, it was just really looking back, it's like,
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Speaker 1: you know, stuff like that wasn't happening then, and so
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Speaker 1: it was really this weekend of just black girl magic
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Speaker 1: of self care of Jess really like we did our
7:40
Speaker 1: spa treatments, we talked, we had vision boarding sessions. It
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Speaker 1: was so exquisite. It was amazing, and I felt like
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Speaker 1: we were all sisters for a weekend at this little
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Speaker 1: amazing getaway corner of the world. And it was it
7:55
Speaker 1: was like you said, it was like the first of
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Speaker 1: its kind in a way, because now a self care
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Speaker 1: weekend is like, hey girl, we need to got here.
8:01
Speaker 1: We can't. But then we were like, wait, Leslie, you
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Speaker 1: want us to come here and just vibe out and
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Speaker 1: meet together and make vision boards and get pampered. What remember?
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Speaker 1: It was like, sure, yes, please. It was a beautiful
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Speaker 1: I remember I met you at breakfast and you walked
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Speaker 1: in and you just had the most beautiful spirit, Like
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Speaker 1: it's just like you emanated delight when you walked in
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Speaker 1: the room and we were at the same table when
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Speaker 1: we started talking, and we've just stayed connected sense. But
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Speaker 1: it was, Yeah, that was so special. That was a moment.
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Speaker 1: And thank you for feeling my energy through the way
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Speaker 1: I always feel yours. See what I'm saying, guys, Look
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Speaker 1: I felt that way at you, Yes, and look at
8:43
Speaker 1: this platform and look at what you're sharing. I'm so
8:45
Speaker 1: excited to be here and talk about all these things. Yeah,
8:49
Speaker 1: so you know, I mean your life is really steeped
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Speaker 1: in all the things wellness, all the things how we're
8:56
Speaker 1: not just connecting with our inner selves but connecting with
8:58
Speaker 1: our partners, connecting our homes. I mean, you have just
9:02
Speaker 1: had such a depth of expertise and really seeing the
9:06
Speaker 1: trends of how women are showing up for themselves and
9:08
Speaker 1: what they're craving. What have you noticed in the last
9:12
Speaker 1: few years. Have there been any shifts or changes, especially
9:16
Speaker 1: now with the pandemic, Like how are how are women
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Speaker 1: of color exploring themselves and exploring the gifts of wellness.
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Speaker 1: I love that you say exploration because it really has
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Speaker 1: been these personalized, many missions of deep self exploration, and
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Speaker 1: we're seeing that with the Essence Reader, which has been
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Speaker 1: really incredible to see. It's like, first it was like
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Speaker 1: that revelation that I don't really know myself, right. We
9:41
Speaker 1: kind of saw that that first shift with everyone. It's
9:44
Speaker 1: like I'm busy, I'm a mom, I'm a wife, I'm
9:46
Speaker 1: a friend, i'm a daughter, I'm doing everything for everyone,
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Speaker 1: So I feel like dev The first thing I saw
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Speaker 1: was that awakening, you know, in black women like acknowledging
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Speaker 1: and saying out loud, I don't put myself first. And
10:01
Speaker 1: I feel like that was happening right around the time
10:03
Speaker 1: we were on that retreat, Like we were kind of
10:06
Speaker 1: all saying, oh, I don't I don't do this, oh
10:08
Speaker 1: vision board, pampering what like, we didn't do it, and
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Speaker 1: then you had to realize, Okay, step one, I don't
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Speaker 1: take care of myself, you know that was first. Step
10:17
Speaker 1: two was really okay, I'm going to get a PhD.
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Speaker 1: And how to do this right? Because we don't do
10:23
Speaker 1: anything happens. So then it was kind of like who
10:26
Speaker 1: do I follow? Who do I you know? Like what
10:28
Speaker 1: crystals do I need to buy? What book? You know? Who?
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Speaker 1: What podcast? And then it was kind of like this
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Speaker 1: advanced education. We got, like an advanced PhD in self
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Speaker 1: care and I love seeing black women died in consuming
10:41
Speaker 1: all the books, all the brands, all the influences, all
10:44
Speaker 1: the conversations, all the retreats, we were just all in.
10:48
Speaker 1: And then we started figuring out, Okay, this is my playbook,
10:52
Speaker 1: what page is for me? And that's where I feel
10:55
Speaker 1: like we are now in kind of expedited that right
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Speaker 1: is figuring out Okay, I tried everything. Now I know
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Speaker 1: what I love and what speaks to my soul, mind, body,
11:04
Speaker 1: which you always talk about, and now I'm gonna fit
11:07
Speaker 1: this into my world. So I feel like right now
11:10
Speaker 1: everybody's trying to say, Okay, I get it, I've done it,
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Speaker 1: I know how to do it. Now I gotta make
11:14
Speaker 1: it stick. Yeah, it's And I love that you that
11:18
Speaker 1: you really pointed out that the first step was noticing
11:21
Speaker 1: that the way we've been doing life was wrong. It
11:26
Speaker 1: was not the way that really the divine intended us
11:28
Speaker 1: to live or feel about ourselves. And that has been
11:31
Speaker 1: one of the greatest Like I I celebrate the fact
11:34
Speaker 1: that I'm alive in this exact moment in time, and
11:37
Speaker 1: that I'm a woman in this exact moment in time.
11:39
Speaker 1: We are we are beings that have never been this
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Speaker 1: free in this way until now, you know, And and
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Speaker 1: that self investigation as the first step is so important,
11:51
Speaker 1: just having that divine curiosity, being open to can I
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Speaker 1: have more? Can I feel better about myself than I
11:59
Speaker 1: feel right out? Yes? And speaking of feelings, that mean
12:03
Speaker 1: for me, it was the moment when I realized how
12:06
Speaker 1: good it felt to tell someone that I'm unavailable for
12:10
Speaker 1: them because I'm now available for me, you know, like
12:14
Speaker 1: that moment for me which took me a while. It
12:17
Speaker 1: took me a while, but to feel the joy and
12:21
Speaker 1: saying I'm not able to come to your birthday dinner.
12:24
Speaker 1: I love you, but I actually have made space for
12:27
Speaker 1: myself and to not feel the guilt or the burden.
12:31
Speaker 1: I used to always feel like I can't let anyone
12:34
Speaker 1: else down, but I was letting myself down constantly. And
12:37
Speaker 1: then when I started fighting for myself, the guilt didn't,
12:39
Speaker 1: you know, like the guilt didn't leave. But I think
12:42
Speaker 1: part of this movement at least for me, and I
12:44
Speaker 1: can only speak for myself here, but I hope you're
12:46
Speaker 1: with me, sisters. For me, it was releasing that guilt
12:49
Speaker 1: and letting all that joy Russian. Yeah, God, that's so good.
12:54
Speaker 1: That's so good, you know, because when we explore the
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Speaker 1: conversation of self care, we explore the conversation of wellness
13:00
Speaker 1: for us as women, it's it's now all the ritual
13:03
Speaker 1: we gotta have it. I live my life and ritual
13:06
Speaker 1: my life is an offering, you know. But it's really
13:10
Speaker 1: it's the moment where we learned to stop betraying ourselves
13:14
Speaker 1: that our epic journey and our spiritual transformation begins. How
13:18
Speaker 1: did you begin to start saying no? It took baby steps,
13:24
Speaker 1: and you guys are gonna laugh, okay, But first I
13:28
Speaker 1: my first step and my journey was getting other people
13:31
Speaker 1: to say no for me. So like my first step
13:34
Speaker 1: was like wanting to cancel, right, wanting to not participate,
13:38
Speaker 1: or wanting to make time for me, but feeling too
13:40
Speaker 1: guilty to own it. So like telling my husband or
13:42
Speaker 1: my friend or you know, someone else to kind of
13:44
Speaker 1: be the bearer of the bad news, being you know,
13:47
Speaker 1: hiding behind my truth. That was weird for me. But
13:50
Speaker 1: then you know, over time I got a little bit
13:52
Speaker 1: better and you know, landing the news myself. And then
13:56
Speaker 1: also it started to just really be, like I said,
13:59
Speaker 1: fun and excite to make the time. So it was
14:01
Speaker 1: like I never over committed anymore because I was too
14:04
Speaker 1: busy doing me. That's the other thing. You can't really
14:07
Speaker 1: be overcommitted to anyone else if you're over committed to yourself. Oh,
14:12
Speaker 1: write that down, y'all, Please write that down. Please write
14:15
Speaker 1: that down. That's like fill your calendar with baths and yeah,
14:20
Speaker 1: moments and class and meditations and mindfulness and then you
14:24
Speaker 1: won't even have time to be too busy with other
14:27
Speaker 1: things because you're busy with yourself, right, I mean, we
14:30
Speaker 1: gotta be. That's something that has been such a tremendous
14:33
Speaker 1: gift for me in the era of the pandemic. I
14:37
Speaker 1: feel like it's re taught me what my personal time was.
14:41
Speaker 1: You know, I think, um, prior to this pandemic, obviously
14:44
Speaker 1: because we all weren't at home all day, Um, it
14:48
Speaker 1: was really like I was feeling myself constantly. So I'd
14:51
Speaker 1: usually have like a morning self care practice, but then
14:54
Speaker 1: my nights would be full and really every every free
14:56
Speaker 1: second would be full. And this moment in time a
15:00
Speaker 1: allowed me to learn how to savor myself, you know,
15:03
Speaker 1: like my evenings seven to ten, I put my kid
15:06
Speaker 1: down at seven, my little baby, and from seven pm
15:09
Speaker 1: to ten pm, I am just in ritual in service
15:12
Speaker 1: to myself. So some nights that looks like a long,
15:16
Speaker 1: really hot bath with two full sized bags of epsom salt,
15:20
Speaker 1: not a cup full size bags, you know, turning on
15:25
Speaker 1: some music, dancing, lighting candles, praying, you know, writing, um,
15:30
Speaker 1: running in my journal. And it's like from developing that
15:33
Speaker 1: and cultivating that, it has completely changed the way I
15:36
Speaker 1: experienced time, completely changed the way I experienced myself. And
15:39
Speaker 1: to your point, it's like even when life starts to
15:42
Speaker 1: get some levels of familiar normalcy, um, you know, in
15:48
Speaker 1: the coming months and years, it's like now for me,
15:51
Speaker 1: I know what my non negotiable is, like, my nights
15:53
Speaker 1: are always for me there. I might maybe two days
15:56
Speaker 1: a week i'll go out, but everything else I'm not available.
16:00
Speaker 1: That's a complete answer. I love that. And you know,
16:03
Speaker 1: I aspire levels, y'all. Devie's got the levels here. I'm
16:07
Speaker 1: trying to get to where you are. But what I
16:09
Speaker 1: will say is I'm thinking of self care lately and
16:12
Speaker 1: snack able bites, which is working for me because you know,
16:16
Speaker 1: for some of us, I think working from home we
16:18
Speaker 1: work more right, more emails, longer nights and days and
16:22
Speaker 1: mornings at the desk, and I hate that because that
16:24
Speaker 1: block of time, like what you're talking about, it does
16:27
Speaker 1: feel impossible. But Debbie, what I realized I was doing
16:30
Speaker 1: is because I couldn't get my two hour window or
16:32
Speaker 1: my one hour window. I thought I couldn't have a window.
16:36
Speaker 1: But I threw that out, you know, and I kind
16:38
Speaker 1: of said, well, what can I do in these ten minutes?
16:41
Speaker 1: For me, what can I do in these four minutes
16:44
Speaker 1: or thirty minutes or forty five And it's turned into
16:47
Speaker 1: dance breaks in the kitchen, extra long walk with my dog,
16:51
Speaker 1: a twenty minute catchup call with an old friend, right,
16:55
Speaker 1: a disco nap, remember those, A power nap, you know,
16:58
Speaker 1: like in the middle of the day. And they're not
17:00
Speaker 1: long moments, but they sustained me and they fulfill me.
17:03
Speaker 1: And I want to say, it's all my busy sisters
17:05
Speaker 1: out there and brothers. If you don't have a lot
17:08
Speaker 1: of time, you still have a little and it's still
17:10
Speaker 1: for you. It's still for you. Yeah, and it's enough
17:13
Speaker 1: whatever that time is. If it is thirty seconds that
17:16
Speaker 1: you tell yourself, I have loved that is enough. Hold
17:21
Speaker 1: that thought. We are coming right back. So you have
17:35
Speaker 1: you have a really high pressure career like you are
17:38
Speaker 1: very much in a in a career of deadlines and
17:42
Speaker 1: constant like access to your visionary power, which mentally and
17:46
Speaker 1: emotionally can be quite taxing. You know, when you're creative,
17:49
Speaker 1: when you are really envisioning what an entire vast demographic
17:54
Speaker 1: of people, you're predicting the trends, you're coming up with
17:57
Speaker 1: the content you're really servicing and being of service to
18:01
Speaker 1: so many women. How do you really remember um to
18:07
Speaker 1: savor that time with yourself? How do you not allow
18:10
Speaker 1: the stress of what you do to become the stress
18:13
Speaker 1: of how you feel about yourself? Betty? That's a word,
18:16
Speaker 1: and you know, says I think that's why I've always
18:18
Speaker 1: been drawn to you and your story, because you very
18:22
Speaker 1: much know the world that I am in and what
18:25
Speaker 1: it means to be a journalist and a personality and
18:27
Speaker 1: a host. And you know, you really, you know, broke
18:31
Speaker 1: free from that and that burnout, and you talk about
18:34
Speaker 1: that a lot, but it speaks to my heart right
18:36
Speaker 1: because it is very real. I know for me, I
18:39
Speaker 1: had to first realize that that wasn't okay, because you know,
18:43
Speaker 1: you do. I feel of service every day to black
18:45
Speaker 1: women because I'm getting to tell them about how to
18:48
Speaker 1: take care of themselves, how to live better, how to
18:51
Speaker 1: be well, and you know, and encouraging them to think
18:53
Speaker 1: about things differently. And so you feel so good about
18:55
Speaker 1: helping other people live their best life that it's easy
18:58
Speaker 1: to forget that maybe in doing at work, you're not
19:01
Speaker 1: doing it. And for me it was it was this
19:03
Speaker 1: moment where I hosted an essence event and a local market.
19:06
Speaker 1: It was themed around wellness. You know, the day was
19:08
Speaker 1: incredible and we were talking about all the exciting things
19:11
Speaker 1: and you know, journaling and doing all these things, and
19:13
Speaker 1: I felt I was ill, like I was sick all day.
19:16
Speaker 1: I was tired, I was beat. And then I got
19:18
Speaker 1: home and I said, how could I have just filled
19:20
Speaker 1: all these women up? And I'm so depleted? You know,
19:24
Speaker 1: So for me, I had to go back, going back
19:26
Speaker 1: to the snack a thing. I was telling you about
19:28
Speaker 1: little reminders, little moments. So I have alarm set in
19:31
Speaker 1: my phone throughout the day to remember to breathe, to
19:35
Speaker 1: remember to compliment myself, to remember to drink water, to
19:38
Speaker 1: remember to pray, and to remember to call my husband
19:41
Speaker 1: or someone that I love, and to remember to get
19:43
Speaker 1: up and move. And those little alerts are I have
19:47
Speaker 1: them set Monday through Friday or Saturday Sunday, whatever, you know,
19:50
Speaker 1: my schedule allows. So when it comes up and I'm
19:53
Speaker 1: in a meeting and I've just dropped my head, it
19:54
Speaker 1: was a great drount, like it's my prayer break. But
19:56
Speaker 1: it's helped me to find those little nuggets of moments.
20:00
Speaker 1: To remind myself to just be in the moment with myself.
20:05
Speaker 1: So how did you fall into this path that you're
20:07
Speaker 1: in because I feel like, you know, obviously you are
20:10
Speaker 1: a journalist and you're very esteemed and celebrated, but to
20:14
Speaker 1: come into this space like with wellness and relationships, it
20:18
Speaker 1: takes a different kind of inquiry, like a different kind
20:23
Speaker 1: of curiosity and investigation to show up in those spaces
20:27
Speaker 1: and really share this work with women. How did you
20:30
Speaker 1: find yourself on that path and in this role. It's
20:33
Speaker 1: so great that you asked that, because the truth is,
20:35
Speaker 1: it really found me. Like I knew I wanted to
20:38
Speaker 1: be a journalist. I trained to be, and I wanted
20:40
Speaker 1: to be a writer and an editor, but focusing on
20:43
Speaker 1: love and relationships and healthy relationships and wellness it was
20:47
Speaker 1: just what my heart was drawn to. You know. I
20:49
Speaker 1: started my career and entertainment magazines and websites and things
20:53
Speaker 1: like that, and then I took a break from that
20:55
Speaker 1: and ended up But then not, you guys know, the
20:57
Speaker 1: not the wedding site and everybody we were like twenty
21:00
Speaker 1: five and everybody was like, you're at a wedding site. What?
21:02
Speaker 1: And I'm like, but I love telling these love stories,
21:05
Speaker 1: and so at my time at the NOTT was very
21:07
Speaker 1: much about telling love stories and newly web stories and
21:10
Speaker 1: deep diving into relationships. But wait for it. The evolution
21:14
Speaker 1: right when you cover love and your passion, which mine is,
21:18
Speaker 1: is to focus on healthy, happy relationships. You realize you
21:21
Speaker 1: need to whole people to come together to be in
21:25
Speaker 1: a healthy relationship. So if I don't work on if
21:28
Speaker 1: I don't help you work on you, then how can
21:31
Speaker 1: I tell you how to be a great partner if
21:33
Speaker 1: you're not being great to yourself. So it was really
21:36
Speaker 1: such a natural evolution to be covering love and relationships
21:39
Speaker 1: and essence for all these years and then to transition
21:41
Speaker 1: into wellness because everything was related. If you want to
21:44
Speaker 1: be mindful, how are you mindful with your partner? You know?
21:47
Speaker 1: If you want to be confident when you're going on
21:49
Speaker 1: a date, you've got to love yourself more than the
21:52
Speaker 1: person you think you're about to fall in love with
21:53
Speaker 1: at that restaurant. Right, Like, there's it's all connected, y'all.
21:57
Speaker 1: And it hit me right like a truck. I was like, Okay,
22:01
Speaker 1: I can't preach and help and engage people and help
22:04
Speaker 1: be happy. Friendships, parenting, romantic relationships if they're not right
22:08
Speaker 1: with themselves. So it's all connected. So it really just
22:12
Speaker 1: all sort of came together in my mission to deeply
22:15
Speaker 1: serve black women in essence, like it was like, I
22:17
Speaker 1: gotta do it all. It's got to be holistic. And
22:20
Speaker 1: what does that look like in your home? You know,
22:22
Speaker 1: when you think of your wholeness and you're all of
22:25
Speaker 1: the snack able joy that you gift yourself with. What
22:28
Speaker 1: does that look like for the man of your life?
22:30
Speaker 1: And then what does that look like for a couple.
22:32
Speaker 1: How do you guys practice your wellness together? Well, for me,
22:36
Speaker 1: I realized, well, for us, I should say first and foremost,
22:39
Speaker 1: you have to make it a priority. Like I think
22:41
Speaker 1: with a lot of couples, they're like, okay, well we're
22:43
Speaker 1: not fighting, then we're vibing. But I realized that that's
22:48
Speaker 1: not mindfulness, that's not being in the moment and in
22:51
Speaker 1: that relationship with your partner. You're just not fighting. It
22:54
Speaker 1: doesn't mean that you're really jelling. So for us, we're
22:58
Speaker 1: very intentional about times it together. That's device free, about
23:02
Speaker 1: times been together that allows us to talk and feel
23:05
Speaker 1: open and feel good. We do a lot of drives
23:07
Speaker 1: romantic car rides. And it's funny because it was quarantin before.
23:10
Speaker 1: But y'all are really into these car days now. Right now,
23:15
Speaker 1: everybody's at a road trip. That's great, come on along, no,
23:18
Speaker 1: but also in all seriousness, the little things, you know,
23:23
Speaker 1: like just we have date nights in our living room.
23:25
Speaker 1: It's always been really important to us since the beginning,
23:28
Speaker 1: when we first started dating sixteen years ago, to just
23:30
Speaker 1: make time to be together. That was that didn't involve technology.
23:34
Speaker 1: But I think that's important because those are the moments
23:36
Speaker 1: of when we take the trip and we go to
23:38
Speaker 1: the resort where we have to unplugly brod phones in
23:40
Speaker 1: the car, that's when I hear him, That's when he
23:43
Speaker 1: hears me. And that's when you get to the bottom
23:45
Speaker 1: of maybe what you're not getting right, or maybe what
23:48
Speaker 1: you need to do better, or maybe a way you
23:50
Speaker 1: haven't been serving each other or yourselves. But you kind
23:53
Speaker 1: of gotta. You have to get all the noise out.
23:55
Speaker 1: And I think, you know, I kudos to any couple
23:57
Speaker 1: who hasn't. You know, I bought through the pandemic. I
24:00
Speaker 1: get it. It's how it's been hard. But even if
24:02
Speaker 1: you haven't, there's probably still more work to be done,
24:05
Speaker 1: because this is time you could be connecting and getting
24:08
Speaker 1: closer and not just your romantic relationships. I've been getting
24:11
Speaker 1: closer to my friends, which has been really beautiful. Like
24:15
Speaker 1: I realized at the beginning of the pandemic deav that
24:17
Speaker 1: I had text in my phone where I left someone
24:21
Speaker 1: unread for weeks and I thought it was days or
24:24
Speaker 1: even months, you know, like an old friends like hey,
24:26
Speaker 1: how have you been thinking of you? And I was like, oh,
24:28
Speaker 1: I'm gonna get right back to them, and then life happened,
24:31
Speaker 1: and then like three months later, I was like, oh
24:33
Speaker 1: my god. So for me, it was about rebuilding those
24:36
Speaker 1: bonds and picking up the phone, calling face time, let
24:41
Speaker 1: me see you, let me see the new shoe, let
24:43
Speaker 1: me see your kids right, let me look out the
24:46
Speaker 1: window with you, let me connect with you, and just
24:49
Speaker 1: being more intentional about all connections in my life. And
24:52
Speaker 1: so it's been beautiful. And honestly, I've learned to say
24:55
Speaker 1: to people not how are you doing, but how are
24:57
Speaker 1: you feeling? Yeah? I really like to ask that because
25:02
Speaker 1: if you say how you're doing, the quick answer, right
25:04
Speaker 1: is good good? How are you good? Good? Yeah? It
25:08
Speaker 1: is just for me, like I hate that question. Well,
25:12
Speaker 1: I don't hate anything, but you know what I mean,
25:14
Speaker 1: Like I dislike, um, yeah, how are you? I Oh
25:17
Speaker 1: my god. When people ask me that question, especially people
25:19
Speaker 1: that don't know you, I get that question a lot,
25:22
Speaker 1: like randomly in a d M. How are you? Like?
25:24
Speaker 1: What is what is your point of context? Like? How
25:27
Speaker 1: how would I answer that question other than just being
25:30
Speaker 1: like good? You know? So it's like, yeah, it's so
25:33
Speaker 1: important to deepen the way we're even in shorter moments
25:37
Speaker 1: conversing with our friends and the people, because the whole
25:39
Speaker 1: point what I'm hearing and what you're saying is like,
25:42
Speaker 1: especially in relationship to your husband, you know, the whole
25:45
Speaker 1: point of relationship, the whole point of knowing people is
25:49
Speaker 1: to be mirrors for one another. Is so that we
25:51
Speaker 1: can be the sharpeners of each other and the chiselers
25:55
Speaker 1: of one another and ourselves, you know. And I love
25:58
Speaker 1: the grace that you're affording yourself with those friendships, right
26:02
Speaker 1: because life happens, you know, And I think it's so
26:07
Speaker 1: you're gonna do yourself a disservice if the way you're
26:10
Speaker 1: experiencing this pandemic is from the lens of lack of
26:14
Speaker 1: who isn't showing up for you or who isn't checking
26:16
Speaker 1: on you? I've seen that. I've seen that circulate around
26:19
Speaker 1: Instagram quite a bit, right, like, pay attention to who's
26:22
Speaker 1: not checking on you? This is a global pandemic, Like
26:25
Speaker 1: we are all doing the best that we can, you know,
26:28
Speaker 1: and being able to have grace for our friends and
26:30
Speaker 1: and ask supporting questions without assumption. You know, something I
26:34
Speaker 1: love to do with my friends, With all of my friends,
26:37
Speaker 1: if I have something I know I need to talk
26:39
Speaker 1: about and it might have some gravity to it, I'll say, hey,
26:42
Speaker 1: do you have bandwidth for this? I have something I
26:44
Speaker 1: want to share? Do you have the emotional or the
26:47
Speaker 1: mental space right now to take that on? You know?
26:50
Speaker 1: And sometimes I'll even say I need about fifteen minutes
26:53
Speaker 1: to unpack this is that possible for you right now?
26:56
Speaker 1: And then I don't have judgment if it's a no.
26:58
Speaker 1: You know, but it's so important that we just expand
27:02
Speaker 1: the ways that we can show for people. WHI also
27:04
Speaker 1: honoring ourselves. So true, and I love the way you
27:08
Speaker 1: phrased it. I know with my friends, we like to
27:10
Speaker 1: say trigger warning, like Hey, I'm in my feelings, I'm
27:14
Speaker 1: swimming in them right now, would you like to jump
27:17
Speaker 1: in with me? If not, okay, love you by trigger warning.
27:19
Speaker 1: But it's been very helpful because you're right. Part of
27:22
Speaker 1: being a good friend and partner is knowing when to
27:25
Speaker 1: not unload on everyone or to not judge, and to
27:27
Speaker 1: give each other that grace. I love what you're saying.
27:29
Speaker 1: It's so true and grace For me, grace and gratitude
27:32
Speaker 1: have been the theme of grace because we got to
27:36
Speaker 1: feel what we feel and it's weird and uncomfortable and
27:38
Speaker 1: we're all in it together. And grace because me judging
27:42
Speaker 1: you is just one more thing you or I don't need.
27:45
Speaker 1: So let's just we don't need anything else right in
27:49
Speaker 1: So let's just skip that part and love on each other.
27:53
Speaker 1: Please please leave. I love the card dates too. I
27:55
Speaker 1: want to I want to pop in and say one
27:57
Speaker 1: of my favorite things to do is to be in
28:00
Speaker 1: the car and play music for each other, like like
28:03
Speaker 1: share the share the ox cord, share the Bluetooth, and
28:06
Speaker 1: then just trying to outdo each other. Oh my god,
28:08
Speaker 1: I am one of those people that is like an
28:10
Speaker 1: eternal fourteen year old that's like, please make me a mixtape,
28:16
Speaker 1: sit with my headphones and nineties and I will be like,
28:21
Speaker 1: this one goes out to you, and now thanks to
28:23
Speaker 1: Google and Alexa, I'm like dedicating songs from the kitchen
28:26
Speaker 1: like you have to make it fine, you do. And
28:29
Speaker 1: I think that is that we're in the season of
28:32
Speaker 1: small moments becoming bigger moments. So let's let's fuel those
28:36
Speaker 1: little moments with love and connect. So as someone who
28:41
Speaker 1: has they're they're really their hands their fingers on the
28:45
Speaker 1: pulse of the wellness culture and the way that people
28:47
Speaker 1: are loving themselves and healing themselves. What are some things
28:51
Speaker 1: that have come up for you that maybe you were like,
28:53
Speaker 1: I don't know, people did this, or something that surprised
28:56
Speaker 1: you that you tried and felt really good. Oh that's
28:59
Speaker 1: a good question. Let me think, because we have to
29:02
Speaker 1: try so much something that surprised me. Listen, I gotta
29:06
Speaker 1: come with it, because when you are interviewing a journalist
29:10
Speaker 1: and an editor, you know, I can't just be like,
29:12
Speaker 1: how's your heart, queen, how you feeling? Like that's I
29:16
Speaker 1: love it? You stop me. I'm like, wait, okay, what's
29:19
Speaker 1: something I didn't know? That's a great question. Let me think,
29:22
Speaker 1: Let me think. I aspair with me um. Oh. Well.
29:27
Speaker 1: One thing that I will say is that my personal
29:31
Speaker 1: approach to wellness at essence has been very much about
29:35
Speaker 1: wellness for every woman and everybody, not just for the
29:39
Speaker 1: wellness enthusiasts and the fitness grew So let's talk about okay,
29:44
Speaker 1: because I think that for me, I felt like I
29:47
Speaker 1: was the perfect person to do this, because for so
29:50
Speaker 1: long I felt like it didn't speak to me, like
29:53
Speaker 1: I'm not the girl with the yoga mat. Anyone who
29:55
Speaker 1: knows me knows I'm about to give a word. I'm
29:58
Speaker 1: not the yoga mat girl. I'm not the workout class girl.
30:00
Speaker 1: I'm not that person who wakes up thinking about when
30:03
Speaker 1: I can make it to the gym or you know,
30:06
Speaker 1: jumping on a smoothie. I've never been that girl. But
30:08
Speaker 1: I am someone who wants each and every day of
30:11
Speaker 1: my life to be just a little healthier and a
30:13
Speaker 1: little happier, and to make decisions in the short term
30:15
Speaker 1: that affect the long term and that give me more
30:18
Speaker 1: years on this earth right and a better quality of
30:21
Speaker 1: life on this earth. But I need it to be
30:23
Speaker 1: approachable and real and relatable. And I think that what
30:27
Speaker 1: I've learned on this journey is that anything that is
30:30
Speaker 1: like drastic, like you're gonna change your whole life and
30:33
Speaker 1: you're gonna lose a hundred pounds and you're gonna feel
30:36
Speaker 1: like anything that that is a hard sell to just
30:39
Speaker 1: make everything better overnight. I don't think it works for
30:42
Speaker 1: most women, Like if that's just not what you're super into,
30:46
Speaker 1: it's almost like a deterrent. And I also what I
30:48
Speaker 1: did learn is it's okay to say what you don't love.
30:50
Speaker 1: Like I love yoga, but I don't like bloodies, Like
30:54
Speaker 1: it's just not I think it doesn't make me feel good.
30:56
Speaker 1: I never get into it. I feel uncomfortable. It's not
30:59
Speaker 1: my jam. Um, that's okay. I realized I hate cycling,
31:03
Speaker 1: but soul Cycle changed my life because it's the music
31:05
Speaker 1: and the inspiration and the vibe. And I realized I
31:09
Speaker 1: had to figure out a way to make it make sense.
31:11
Speaker 1: And like we were talking about, I'm a music lover.
31:13
Speaker 1: So I I've learned that it's okay to be the
31:16
Speaker 1: person looking around in the class saying this is super
31:19
Speaker 1: uncomfortable and super weird and I don't like it because
31:22
Speaker 1: there's something out there that you may like. I did it.
31:25
Speaker 1: Infrared Sauna recently, and I was I thought it was
31:29
Speaker 1: gonna be like I was like, okay, I'm gonna go.
31:31
Speaker 1: And the sweat, like you can't possibly give me all
31:33
Speaker 1: these endorphins and all these things and all the skin.
31:37
Speaker 1: It was addictive, you know, like I didn't expect You've
31:40
Speaker 1: got it, You've done it, that done. You know, Yes,
31:45
Speaker 1: I love it. I put your put your playlists in
31:48
Speaker 1: there and just let me sweat wet it out in
31:53
Speaker 1: your cushy, comfy robe. But that was unexpected in a
31:56
Speaker 1: good way, you know. I did the wellness I V
31:59
Speaker 1: drifts that really freaked out, that really freak Yeah, yeah
32:02
Speaker 1: I didn't. I don't. I don't love that personally. Yeah,
32:06
Speaker 1: it was great in the moment, but then it was
32:09
Speaker 1: kind of like feeling like a really natural high. But
32:12
Speaker 1: I don't know it was I don't know. It wasn't
32:14
Speaker 1: for me. It was for me for like a second,
32:16
Speaker 1: and then I was like, no, this is really a lot.
32:18
Speaker 1: I felt like I was at the hospital. But I
32:19
Speaker 1: say that to say to answer your question, it's it's
32:22
Speaker 1: funny because I think the things I've loved the most
32:24
Speaker 1: that have been unexpected are the things that weren't high
32:26
Speaker 1: pressure and I think when it comes to wellness, we
32:29
Speaker 1: gotta get in where we fit in, you know, like yeah,
32:32
Speaker 1: you know and that and that's like the that's the
32:34
Speaker 1: that's really the meat of it. It's like wellness does
32:39
Speaker 1: wellness and healing does not have to look instagrammatable instagrammable,
32:43
Speaker 1: and it doesn't have to be comparable. You know. That
32:45
Speaker 1: was a big part for me too when I first,
32:47
Speaker 1: you know, really deep dove into my path of meditation.
32:51
Speaker 1: After I went to a meditation retreat, I felt like,
32:56
Speaker 1: where do you like, what do I do? Where do
32:58
Speaker 1: I go from here? Because I'm not need to leave
33:00
Speaker 1: my life behind and join an ashram right like I
33:03
Speaker 1: don't do yoga every day at this moment in time
33:06
Speaker 1: or then, so I was like, where do where does
33:08
Speaker 1: my wellness and my spirituality fit into within this? And
33:12
Speaker 1: now we're in that moment where there's not those harsh
33:15
Speaker 1: boundaries anymore, those walls, like we're clear, I think, I hope,
33:19
Speaker 1: or if you're listening, then you're not know you are
33:21
Speaker 1: allowed permission to make your own little bespoke recipe, like
33:26
Speaker 1: your wellness is catered to what you like, what brings
33:31
Speaker 1: you joy, what makes you feel good and your body
33:33
Speaker 1: feel nourished, and you have to be willing to just say,
33:37
Speaker 1: let's see what happens. So I was at a wellness
33:41
Speaker 1: UM event last year. I think it was last year.
33:43
Speaker 1: I don't even know months or days and years and
33:45
Speaker 1: where are we? What is um? But they had the
33:50
Speaker 1: woman came from Thailand with the giant gone like the
33:54
Speaker 1: giant sound healing, which she just rang it and rang it,
33:59
Speaker 1: and we stood and we could it is sound healing, right,
34:02
Speaker 1: So we sat there, but it was the gong was
34:05
Speaker 1: like the size of like the room. It was humongous.
34:08
Speaker 1: And I said, let me just close my eyes and
34:10
Speaker 1: see what happens. I fully relaxed. I closed my eyes
34:13
Speaker 1: and one of the things she said is that you're
34:15
Speaker 1: going to feel the energy leaving, the stress leaving from
34:19
Speaker 1: where it is in your body. And it blew me
34:22
Speaker 1: away because when I opened my eyes, it was like
34:25
Speaker 1: I was asleep, that's how relaxing it was. And I
34:27
Speaker 1: didn't even realize I had kind of gone into the trance.
34:30
Speaker 1: And when I came out, my heart was fluttering. But
34:34
Speaker 1: I was dealing with a lot emotionally, and it was
34:38
Speaker 1: the coolest experience to feel the stress physically leaving my heart,
34:43
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, because things were heavy on
34:45
Speaker 1: it and something. The lady next to me was like,
34:47
Speaker 1: oh my knees. Someone else was like, oh my shoulder.
34:50
Speaker 1: Like we the stress was just leaving and breaking up
34:54
Speaker 1: the matter. It was just dissolving and leaving our bodies.
34:58
Speaker 1: And you have to be open into everything to have
35:01
Speaker 1: these experiences and to find that thing that moves you.
35:05
Speaker 1: I ran over to her and I'm like, do you
35:06
Speaker 1: touch the class? What do you? And she's like, I
35:08
Speaker 1: do not, but find one because you're happy, you feel good.
35:13
Speaker 1: And I felt the results of that and I felt
35:15
Speaker 1: that long term effects of that for days. So you
35:18
Speaker 1: have to be open, guys. That's what I say. Be
35:20
Speaker 1: open to whatever cool and amazing thing. Try it all,
35:23
Speaker 1: some of your love, some of you hate. If you've
35:24
Speaker 1: got to try, yeah, yeah, just try because what do
35:27
Speaker 1: you really have to lose? And I am grateful that
35:30
Speaker 1: you brought this point up because you know something I think,
35:33
Speaker 1: especially especially women of color, need to really um gift themselves.
35:41
Speaker 1: It is these kind of experiences that go against maybe
35:44
Speaker 1: cultural and societal norms or things that your family structure
35:47
Speaker 1: was used to. Because what you spoke to with the
35:50
Speaker 1: sound of that gong. And when you do like sound
35:52
Speaker 1: healing or use um singing bowls or sound therapy, it
35:57
Speaker 1: helps to on a cellular level, it helps to break
36:00
Speaker 1: up the trauma, it helps to move the energy. So
36:03
Speaker 1: in my own home, I have several singing bowls that
36:06
Speaker 1: I do every day, usually to start it in my day.
36:08
Speaker 1: But I got a simple bell. I have a I
36:11
Speaker 1: have a bell that's like you know, it's kind of
36:12
Speaker 1: like the size of those bells that you'd see on
36:15
Speaker 1: you know, those shows when you're ringing for a mate
36:16
Speaker 1: or something, right, And one of those bells that's of
36:20
Speaker 1: the frequency for the sacred chakra area. And whenever I'm
36:24
Speaker 1: having a bad day, whenever I need to clear some
36:26
Speaker 1: energy or after my meditation, I literally just get that bell,
36:31
Speaker 1: as simple as it sounds, and I ring it in
36:33
Speaker 1: front of all my chuckra points so crown, um, third eye, throat, heart, solar, plexus,
36:41
Speaker 1: sacred root, and shake the bell everywhere. Then shake the
36:44
Speaker 1: bell on the sides of my ears. I did an
36:46
Speaker 1: i g TV on this that should be on my
36:48
Speaker 1: page if anyone's interested somewhere, it's there. But and that
36:52
Speaker 1: movement of energy sometimes that's all you need, you know,
36:55
Speaker 1: And so we even overthink our wellness sometimes because we
36:58
Speaker 1: haven't done enough exploration and haven't been curious enough to
37:02
Speaker 1: cultivate more tools. But sometimes it's not as hard as
37:05
Speaker 1: it feels. Yeah. Absolutely, And we black women hold onto
37:10
Speaker 1: trauma physically. We don't even realize it, but we're carrying it.
37:14
Speaker 1: You guys were carrying it in our backs and our
37:16
Speaker 1: shoulders and our knees and our feet and our bones.
37:20
Speaker 1: It just is. And every different people carry stress differently.
37:24
Speaker 1: And of course you know our superhero syndrome, this idea
37:27
Speaker 1: that we have so much, so much on us that
37:31
Speaker 1: stays with us. So I say, finding ways to release
37:34
Speaker 1: trauma should be at the like you said, at the
37:37
Speaker 1: top of your wellness priority lives. Yes, getting shape, yes,
37:41
Speaker 1: get snatched, Yes, drink more water, all the things. I
37:44
Speaker 1: love it. But also how are you releasing stress and
37:47
Speaker 1: trauma and reading it from your body or not letting
37:50
Speaker 1: the effects of its stay there? Yeah? Yeah, and you
37:53
Speaker 1: gotta you gotta do all of it. It's not just
37:55
Speaker 1: one thing. It's not just reading a book, and it's
37:58
Speaker 1: not just working out, or it's not us doing even
38:00
Speaker 1: singing therapy. It's it's really the cultivation of all of
38:04
Speaker 1: those tools for your mind, body, spirit, and so like
38:07
Speaker 1: for self care practices. Everyone you really want to think of,
38:10
Speaker 1: like the four pillars to wholeness mental, physical, emotional, spiritual.
38:15
Speaker 1: Drop something into each of those buckets every day. Doesn't
38:18
Speaker 1: have to be grand, doesn't have to be big or expensive.
38:21
Speaker 1: But if you're filling those four buckets every day, you're
38:24
Speaker 1: gonna see radical transformation. And we're here for all these transformations,
38:28
Speaker 1: you guys. I want to see everybody transform. I want
38:32
Speaker 1: us all to step into our new year, our new life,
38:35
Speaker 1: and our new piece together, you know. And going back
38:38
Speaker 1: to you know, the most recent project we worked on Devy,
38:41
Speaker 1: which is the art of black Joy story. I picked
38:44
Speaker 1: that topic because it was transforming together that got me
38:49
Speaker 1: through and if you guys haven't had chance to read it,
38:52
Speaker 1: please go check it out. I talked to each of
38:54
Speaker 1: these the day. It's fantastic, but we I talked each
39:00
Speaker 1: woman about sharing her joy with others and joy as
39:04
Speaker 1: a form of almost like a bridge to help us
39:07
Speaker 1: get through this year. And I interviewed every woman that
39:10
Speaker 1: did that for me. Debbie was one of them. It's
39:13
Speaker 1: also Tabatha brand Brown Danielle Brooks and Kelsey Guy the Skater.
39:18
Speaker 1: But I'm telling you, guys, it's important to share that
39:22
Speaker 1: joy and to be open with people who are changing
39:25
Speaker 1: your life because your you alls transformations helped further mind
39:29
Speaker 1: along and I think that's sometimes we forget the power
39:33
Speaker 1: of inspiration, Like maybe I just was having the worst
39:37
Speaker 1: day and Debbie you popped up on my feet or
39:39
Speaker 1: Tabatha and just being along your journey with you helped
39:44
Speaker 1: me stick to mind even if that day wasn't perfect.
39:47
Speaker 1: It was a reminder that I'm not alone and we're
39:49
Speaker 1: all transforming together. M hm oh so beautiful. Thank you,
39:54
Speaker 1: thank you, thank you. How can everybody connect to you?
39:58
Speaker 1: Find me on Instagram at Charlie Penn on Twitter at
40:03
Speaker 1: man Wife Dog We have a fur baby at home?
40:06
Speaker 1: Did I give that away? Um? And you can email
40:09
Speaker 1: me Charlie Penn at Gmail or c pen at essence
40:13
Speaker 1: dot com. Get at me, Let's share love, joy, insite,
40:17
Speaker 1: pitch me anything. Oh I love that? Okay, that's the
40:22
Speaker 1: homework for the week, guys, that's the soul work. What
40:25
Speaker 1: are you pitching? And of course your podcast, the Yes
40:28
Speaker 1: Girl Podcast critically claim everywhere you are so kind. Thank
40:35
Speaker 1: you so much for your time. It's such a joy
40:37
Speaker 1: to talk to you. And I'm just so grateful for
40:39
Speaker 1: your existence and the way that you occupy space and
40:43
Speaker 1: give the tools to all of us so that we
40:46
Speaker 1: can feel good from the inside out. Fay, the love
40:50
Speaker 1: est is so mutual. Thank you so much for having me. Oh,
40:53
Speaker 1: I feel so refreshed, revived and loved and fulfilled. Stop y'all,
40:57
Speaker 1: this is like the best experience on this show. And
41:00
Speaker 1: thank you for having me. I love you. G Hey
41:07
Speaker 1: find me on social Let's connect at Deviie Brown. That's
41:11
Speaker 1: Twitter and Instagram, or go to my website Debbie Brown
41:14
Speaker 1: dot com. And if you're listening to the show on
41:17
Speaker 1: Apple podcasts, please please please don't forget to rate, review,
41:23
Speaker 1: and subscribe and send this episode to a friend. Dropping
41:28
Speaker 1: Jams is the production of I Heart Radio and The
41:30
Speaker 1: Black Effect Network. It's produced by Triple and Me Debbie Brown.
41:35
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from My Heart Radio, visit the I
41:37
Speaker 1: heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to
41:41
Speaker 1: your favorite shows.