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When Teachers Get Excited About Brain Science | Shane & Suzy · The Academic Coaching Podcast

• 0:00
  Shane: So your concrete example of the parking spots became something that we just use in our common language.
• 0:07
  Susie: And we're talking kindergarten, first grade, all the way up to 12th.
• 0:12
  Susie: Welcome to the Academic Coaching Podcast, everyone, brought to you by the Anti-Boring Learning Lab.
• 0:19
  Susie: I am your host, Gretchen Wegner, and this is the show where we reflect on the craft of coaching students.
• 0:26
  Susie: We're talking study skills, executive function strategies, tips and tricks for teaching the science to students, and occasionally, a little biz advice thrown in for those of you in private practice.
• 0:37
  Susie: And today, if you've ever wondered why great professional development so rarely changes classroom practice, today, you are in for such a treat.
• 0:49
  Susie: So okay, in my experience, classroom teachers don't often think of themselves as academic coaches.
• 0:55
  Susie: They are there to teach content and thinking skills, but not often study skills or executive function strategies or the science of how the brain learns.
• 1:05
  Susie: But, and this is good news, this is changing in districts across the world, certainly also in the United States, as more and more educators embrace the science of learning.
• 1:16
  Susie: And I was completely honored when two of these educators, Susie Evans and Shane Saeed of St.
• 1:23
  Susie: Vrain Valley School District, saw me speak at a recent research ed conference about my favorite academic coaching tool for students, what I call the cognitive overload mini-lecture.
• 1:35
  Susie: And they knew immediately that the teachers in their science of learning collaborative needed to know this, pronto.
• 1:41
  Susie: So they brought me in, and this interview that you're about to see takes place about two months after I came to speak to their science of learning collaborative which, by the way, is a completely unique model for opt-in professional development that I can't wait for you to hear about.
• 1:59
  Susie: Listen in and hear in real time as these two fabulous educators report back on how my cognitive overload mini-lecture became their teachers' favorite professional development of the year.
• 2:09
  Susie: I'm still blown away by that.
• 2:11
  Susie: And it also, and perhaps more importantly, gave teachers language that they started using right away with students to talk about the overload that everybody is experiencing.
• 2:21
  Susie: So let's dive in and meet Shane and Susie and hear what happened next Hello.
• 2:29
  Gretchen: We do, good.
• 2:31
  Gretchen: You guys are gonna hear who Susie and Shane are in a moment, but I just wanna say that I met them when I was presenting at a research ed conference in Denver November 2025, I think it was.
• 2:46
  Susie: I think that's- Yeah.
• 2:47
  Susie: Right.
• 2:48
  Susie: Wow.
• 2:48
  Susie: Yeah.
• 2:48
  Gretchen: And we actually- It
• 2:50
  Susie: feels so long ago.
• 2:50
  Susie: It does.
• 2:50
  Susie: It feels like a million years ago, but I think that's right.
• 2:53
  Gretchen: Yeah, and we met at the speaker gathering the night before, and that's when we realized, oh, we felt a connection, and we felt, oh.
• 3:02
  Gretchen: And then you all came to my presentation, which I'm so honored that you did.
• 3:08
  Susie: It was so good.
• 3:09
  Susie: It was mind-blowing, and it to- pun intended, right?
• 3:12
  Susie: This is about brain research, of course, and it was.
• 3:15
  Susie: It was mind-blowing, and it was presented so concisely, and something that we felt we could translate directly back to our teachers.
• 3:23
  Gretchen: Mm, beautiful.
• 3:24
  Gretchen: Well, let's hear who those teachers are first, and then we're gonna go back and talk a little bit more about what made you invite me to come in.
• 3:30
  Gretchen: Because actually then I came in to train- Mm-hmm your group of teachers.
• 3:34
  Gretchen: And we're gonna share all about that with you all, and what the training was like, and what the takeaways from your faculty were.
• 3:41
  Gretchen: But first, people need to know about the incredible and unique work you're doing.
• 3:44
  Gretchen: So which one of you wants to start off?
• 3:47
  Shane: You wanna
• 3:47
  Susie: start?
• 3:47
  Susie: No, you can start.
• 3:48
  Shane: Okay.
• 3:49
  Shane: Uh, I'm Shane Said.
• 3:49
  Shane: I- we both- Yes work for St.
• 3:52
  Shane: Vrain Valley School District in Longmont, Colorado.
• 3:55
  Shane: And, uh, my particular role, I am the elementary ELA curriculum coordinator, so I'm in charge of all the reading and writing programming for our 30 elementary schools.
• 4:04
  Shane: Um, and Susie and I first met, uh, f- during our science of learning collaborative.
• 4:09
  Shane: The very first year we were on the steering committee together.
• 4:12
  Susie: Mm-hmm.
• 4:12
  Shane: And that's where our love for this work had started, was seven years ago, and, um, where our friendship started and also- Right.
• 4:20
  Shane: We only just grew from there.
• 4:22
  Susie: Had that instant connection- Yes um, happen between the two of us, so that was fun.
• 4:27
  Susie: And you are?
• 4:28
  Susie: I am Susie Evans, Susanna Evans, but you know, my- only my mother calls me that really.
• 4:34
  Susie: Um, so go by Susie, and I'm an instructional coordinator in St.
• 4:38
  Susie: Vrain Valley School.
• 4:39
  Susie: So I get, I have the honor of supporting lots of principals and schools in a- analyzing their data and working with teachers on instructional practices, science of learning nerd.
• 4:52
  Susie: And we both co-host the Vrain Waves podcast, with a V, Vrain Waves, um, which is our district's podcast, and we talk- Almost exclusively about the same thing, science of learning and instructional shifts that you can take back to your classroom.
• 5:11
  Susie: Mm-hmm.
• 5:11
  Susie: So we're in our eighth year together- Yeah working with teachers in our district in, um, the science of learning collaborative that we've- Mm created here.
• 5:21
  Shane: So we were on that- So,
• 5:22
  Gretchen: yeah.
• 5:22
  Shane: Oh.
• 5:23
  Shane: Well- I was gonna say, we were on that steering committee.
• 5:25
  Susie: Yep,
• 5:25
  Shane: yes.
• 5:25
  Shane: And now every year since then, we have a group of teachers, PK-12, no matter the content area, that come- Mm together to learn together about the science of learning, how our brains work, and how we can actually use that knowledge within our practice to make strong instructional shifts.
• 5:42
  Shane: Mm.
• 5:43
  Gretchen: And here's what I love about your collective, which is, I think, one of the reasons why we both...
• 5:49
  Gretchen: we sparked interest that first night, was that...
• 5:53
  Gretchen: Well, back up to say when I left teaching, I had a commitment inside myself, I'm never gonna work with students who don't wanna work with me ever again.
• 6:01
  Gretchen: And then I started being invited to do professional development for teachers, and I started to say yes to them.
• 6:08
  Gretchen: And I realized that most professional development for teachers a- are, is training that the teachers have not chosen to do, that they're required to do.
• 6:18
  Gretchen: And I thought,"Oh, dear.
• 6:19
  Gretchen: I don't know if I love this." And then you all told me that your collective is all opt-in.
• 6:27
  Gretchen: Say a little bit more about how the collective started and grew.
• 6:32
  Susie: So back in 2019, s- one of the members of the assessment team
• 6:39
  Shane: Yeah, from our district
• 6:40
  Susie: from our district found Patrice Bain's Powerful Teaching book and thought,"This is something," and cherry-picked about- A
• 6:49
  Shane: few teachers, 12 of us
• 6:51
  Susie: 12 of us to do a book study, I guess we would
• 6:55
  Shane: call it Yeah, it was like a year-long book study and just, uh, learning together about the science of learning Mm-hmm start to integrate some of the practices, some really light, uh, action research in our classrooms- Mm-hmm if you will.
• 7:07
  Susie: And then COVID hit and the world stopped, and, uh, so that was an, a whole thing.
• 7:14
  Susie: And then the second year, I think we had-
• 7:17
  Shane: Nine
• 7:18
  Susie: nine people, and it was all virtual- Mm and it, you know, didn't, it wasn't our favorite year.
• 7:24
  Susie: Um, but then since then- Nobody's
• 7:26
  Gretchen: favorite year
• 7:27
  Susie: ever- Nobody's favorite in the history of the world.
• 7:27
  Susie: Nobody's favorite year.
• 7:27
  Susie: No one's favorite year.
• 7:30
  Susie: Since then, we've been slowly- Chugging along, gaining some momentum word of mouth teachers, uh, us two kind of handpicking teachers that we thought, oh, they're someone who would love this, and word of mouth started to spread, and each year it got bigger and bigger.
• 7:48
  Susie: And again, we are in our...
• 7:50
  Susie: We're about to launch our eighth year together next year.
• 7:54
  Susie: It is 100% voluntary.
• 7:56
  Susie: In fact, they actually pay$30 to- To
• 7:59
  Shane: be a part
• 8:00
  Susie: of it to be a part of
• 8:00
  Shane: it.
• 8:01
  Shane: And get credit.
• 8:01
  Susie: They do, yes.
• 8:02
  Susie: They do get credit, but they pay for this.
• 8:05
  Susie: We have- At least half, maybe 40% that return year after year after year, they can continue to do it and still get credit.
• 8:15
  Susie: So we have people who have been with us for five or six years now.
• 8:19
  Susie: And we are up to 70 members.
• 8:23
  Shane: 75
• 8:25
  Susie: this year.
• 8:25
  Susie: 75 members this year.
• 8:26
  Susie: Again, all voluntary teachers that are just so excited to refine their practice- Mm-hmm and re-energize their love of teaching, and re- and, and shift the workload to students, and inspire their students to own their learning.
• 8:40
  Shane: Yeah, and this is, it's a year-long collaborative.
• 8:43
  Shane: So we meet every month on late start days, um, in the afternoons,'cause we know that we're not going to, uh, coincide with any staff meetings.
• 8:51
  Shane: Those staff meetings happened in the morning during that late start.
• 8:54
  Shane: And as Suzie said, those teachers, they're there.
• 8:56
  Shane: And we had people share out, we recently had, um, our last session in May, and where they do their final presentations.
• 9:03
  Shane: Oh, you need- And they share-
• 9:04
  Susie: Yes yes.
• 9:04
  Susie: You need to come to that one night.
• 9:06
  Gretchen: I shoulda come this year.
• 9:07
  Gretchen: Oh.
• 9:07
  Gretchen: Please, if you remember to invite me- Yes I'm there in a heartbeat.
• 9:11
  Shane: Deal.
• 9:12
  Shane: It's like they share their final presentations of what they learned, what they did, what they l- what they learned about their students, their practice, what worked- Mm-hmm what didn't work, how they shifted.
• 9:20
  Shane: Um, and, uh, they, we had, uh, returning members share out to the new members this year why they choose to return-
• 9:28
  Susie: Mm-hmm
• 9:28
  Shane: year after year.
• 9:30
  Shane: Mm.
• 9:30
  Shane: And a lot of it was that they love the community of educators- Mm that has grown, right?
• 9:36
  Shane: It's like-minded people who wanna continue to grow.
• 9:40
  Shane: They love that they, every year is different, right?
• 9:42
  Shane: We don't teach the same thing every year.
• 9:44
  Shane: We really tailor everything based on feedback of each session.
• 9:47
  Shane: So like whatever they're processing or mulling over- Mm-hmm we definitely plan for for the next session, right?
• 9:54
  Shane: There's never a set uh, syllabus, if you will No It's set by, we're responsive- Mm-hmm to the participants.
• 10:00
  Shane: Mm-hmm.
• 10:00
  Shane: Um, and that was really cool to know that people return because they love the community and the collective efficacy that's built within.
• 10:08
  Susie: And, and now we're to the point, again, where we have so many returning year after year that we're starting to delegate.
• 10:14
  Susie: Because the last thing we want is to, we say this all the time, it's not the-
• 10:20
  Shane: It's not the Shane and
• 10:21
  Susie: Susie show.
• 10:22
  Susie: We say
• 10:22
  Shane: it at the same
• 10:22
  Susie: time.
• 10:23
  Susie: We talk a lot at the same...
• 10:24
  Susie: It is not the Shane and Susie show.
• 10:26
  Susie: It is not that at all.
• 10:27
  Susie: It is about building collective efficacy with all of the teachers, and then translating that to collective efficacy for the students.
• 10:35
  Susie: Mm-hmm.
• 10:35
  Susie: So now we have teacher leaders in our group that will come with us to schools and present at different schools.
• 10:42
  Susie: Yeah,
• 10:42
  Shane: when we do site based PD, that is-
• 10:44
  Susie: Yes
• 10:44
  Shane: a little forced, but they're, the- Mm-hmm the teachers love when we bring teachers from other buildings.
• 10:49
  Susie: Right.
• 10:49
  Gretchen: Absolutely.
• 10:50
  Gretchen: That's where it should be.
• 10:52
  Gretchen: Thank you.
• 10:53
  Gretchen: As peers.
• 10:53
  Gretchen: Yeah.
• 10:53
  Gretchen: Just like with our
• 10:53
  Susie: students.
• 10:54
  Susie: They, they wanna hear from peers, right?
• 10:55
  Susie: And so they're leading.
• 10:56
  Susie: Now they're leading groups of new members, and we're just empow- the empowerment is, is tangible almost.
• 11:04
  Susie: Yeah.
• 11:04
  Susie: Mm-hmm.
• 11:04
  Susie: And that last night of the year in May every year, it is the- We cry every year.
• 11:09
  Susie: We cry every year.
• 11:11
  Susie: I hear you.
• 11:11
  Susie: And we can't...
• 11:13
  Susie: The, just the energy that's in the building, we have lots of people that, administration from the district, that come just to watch that night.
• 11:21
  Susie: Mm-hmm.
• 11:21
  Susie: And it is truly the best, most bucket filling night of the year.
• 11:27
  Gretchen: This is what PD should be.
• 11:29
  Gretchen: And so I'm hoping that if people only watch this part of the video and don't go anywhere else, you consider this kind of a model.
• 11:37
  Gretchen: I don't know if you guys are open to reach outs.
• 11:39
  Gretchen: You, uh, you were presenting about the model at Research Ed.
• 11:42
  Gretchen: Yes.
• 11:43
  Gretchen: And I wasn't able to go to that then.
• 11:45
  Susie: Yeah.
• 11:46
  Gretchen: But it's a new consulting gig for you.
• 11:48
  Gretchen: Let's get these collectives- in every district in the country and world, I think.
• 11:53
  Susie: Well, yeah, we've really shifted.
• 11:55
  Susie: We used to present at CASE and Research Ed a- about the science of learning specifically, and we've kind of shifted to presenting about this- How do
• 12:03
  Shane: you do this?
• 12:04
  Susie: collaborative model- Yeah, you've learned the system of professional development versus, which is an ongoing learning opportunity versus- Mm those one and done trainings.
• 12:14
  Susie: Yes.
• 12:14
  Susie: Yes.
• 12:14
  Susie: And now, not to say that those are all bad, and sometimes we're launching a program and there needs to be- Yeah, they're
• 12:20
  Gretchen: needed.
• 12:20
  Susie: They're needed needs to be a training, right?
• 12:22
  Susie: Yeah.
• 12:22
  Susie: But this ongoing learning opportunity is, is definitely filling a need for a lot of people we're seeing.
• 12:29
  Susie: And- Yeah.
• 12:29
  Susie: Yeah Shane has even taken that and moved it into elementary ELA too, and we had-
• 12:35
  Shane: Same
• 12:35
  Susie: mind a similar number- Mm of people voluntarily sign up for it.
• 12:39
  Susie: So something about this collaborative model is speaking to people, and we're so happy about it.
• 12:44
  Susie: And
• 12:44
  Gretchen: then the culture changes.
• 12:45
  Gretchen: The, the- Yes people who don't wanna come don't have to come.
• 12:48
  Susie: Right.
• 12:48
  Susie: Nope.
• 12:49
  Gretchen: The culture changes, and then eventually, maybe several years down the line, they will have made some small changes, those who didn't ca- come but heard through the grapevine.
• 12:57
  Gretchen: So I just think...
• 12:59
  Gretchen: I was thinking about the work of Parker Palmer as you guys were talking about.
• 13:02
  Gretchen: Do you know his work?
• 13:04
  Susie: No.
• 13:04
  Susie: No.
• 13:05
  Susie: Tell
• 13:05
  Gretchen: us more.
• 13:05
  Gretchen: Look him up.
• 13:05
  Gretchen: I mean, he's a former actual Quaker.
• 13:07
  Gretchen: Uh- Oh, is it?
• 13:09
  Gretchen: but he is an educator, and he works on this s- spirituality, teachers and spirituality.
• 13:14
  Gretchen: Mm.
• 13:14
  Gretchen: And what does it look like to really, uh, refresh our souls through our work?
• 13:19
  Shane: Mm-hmm.
• 13:20
  Gretchen: And that's what I heard you describing, which is so cool.
• 13:22
  Gretchen: Mm-hmm.
• 13:22
  Gretchen: 'Cause it doesn't sound spiritual at all, except They get to opt in, they get to build a deep community with other people in their district, and they get the sense of meaning.
• 13:34
  Gretchen: Like, we're doing incredible work.
• 13:36
  Gretchen: Yeah.
• 13:36
  Gretchen: And they're learning.
• 13:38
  Gretchen: They're learning in a way that isn't the forced model.
• 13:42
  Gretchen: I also was thinking about Paolo Freire, just to put in a bunch of names here.
• 13:45
  Gretchen: But it's not a forced model.
• 13:47
  Gretchen: It is a...
• 13:48
  Gretchen: Like, it's the joy
• 13:50
  Susie: of- Yeah
• 13:51
  Gretchen: deep, ongoing learning, which is actually what my Anti-Boring Learning Lab is all about for people who are...
• 13:57
  Gretchen: who want that experience but don't have it in their districts or for academic coaches in their worlds, and so they wanna join an online community.
• 14:07
  Gretchen: It's very similar, actually.
• 14:08
  Gretchen: And my people stay for years.
• 14:10
  Gretchen: They come in thinking they just wanna learn a little bit, and then they stay- Yeah'cause they need all those other things.
• 14:16
  Susie: We, we often see that.
• 14:17
  Susie: They, they think they're gonna be one year, and then after the night in May, they come from their little breakout session and they're like,"Yep, we're...
• 14:25
  Susie: I'm s- I'm in.
• 14:25
  Susie: I'm signing up again." It is beautiful.
• 14:27
  Shane: And we've seen, there are some teachers who have shared with us that they were kind of in this space of disillusionment with education- Mm their practice, and they were feeling really stuck, and actually in a pretty negative place.
• 14:40
  Shane: And after joining the collaborative, and it was after, like, teammates had b- gone- Mm-hmm and been like,"You just need to come with me," and they're like kicking and screaming, joining.
• 14:50
  Shane: And then it, like, after, you know, a couple months, it's like, wow, this, this actually works.
• 14:56
  Shane: It's rejuvenated them, it's rejuvenated their practice because they feel like they're making an impact- Yeah and supporting their kids.
• 15:02
  Shane: And that's really what we're here to do, right?
• 15:04
  Shane: We're here to support- Yeah our kids.
• 15:06
  Gretchen: Mm-hmm.
• 15:06
  Gretchen: To support our kids in a way that doesn't detract from our wellbeing and our joy and our vibrancy in life, but also-
• 15:14
  Susie: Adds
• 15:14
  Gretchen: adds to it as well.
• 15:15
  Gretchen: It's not one- Yeah over the other.
• 15:17
  Gretchen: It's both, and you guys have accidentally happened upon an incredible way to do that.
• 15:22
  Gretchen: Well,
• 15:22
  Susie: and sustainable.
• 15:23
  Susie: Like you s- it- Yes.
• 15:24
  Susie: We also talk a lot about sustainability.
• 15:27
  Susie: Sustainability.
• 15:27
  Susie: Because this profession is taxing.
• 15:31
  Susie: We, we know that.
• 15:32
  Susie: And it is very, that's an, a very important piece.
• 15:35
  Susie: It has to be, whatever you're doing has to be sustainable.
• 15:38
  Gretchen: Yeah.
• 15:38
  Gretchen: And so I'm gonna transition us by saying that for years I've been kind of banging my head against, like, how do I get teachers in schools to be more interested in growing their capacity to support students' study skills?
• 15:54
  Gretchen: Mm-hmm.
• 15:54
  Gretchen: Uh, because teachers are, I know, overwhelmed and all the things.
• 15:58
  Gretchen: And, but in my mind I was like, if we can get students to understand how to, the metacognitive task of paying attention to their learning and we give them skills to own their learning, then the teacher has more time.
• 16:12
  Gretchen: Then the teacher gets to use their expertise to co-create with the students.
• 16:16
  Gretchen: And I guess I wanna ask you as I transition us to talking more about co- cognitive overload, am I nuts about that?
• 16:23
  Gretchen: Or am I onto something with that from what you've seen?
• 16:26
  Shane: No, you're not nuts.
• 16:28
  Shane: That's 100% it, right?
• 16:29
  Shane: It's, it is.
• 16:30
  Shane: It's honoring the student agent- this, honoring the agency students come in with- Mm-hmm and giving them the tools to be able to be the drivers of their own learning.
• 16:38
  Shane: Mm-hmm.
• 16:38
  Shane: Because we shouldn't be the motivators.
• 16:40
  Shane: Right.
• 16:40
  Shane: That's extrinsic.
• 16:42
  Shane: Right.
• 16:42
  Shane: We want it to be completely intrinsic.
• 16:44
  Shane: And they should be the ones monitoring, right?
• 16:46
  Shane: We're there to calibrate.
• 16:48
  Susie: Mm-hmm.
• 16:48
  Shane: But we are not, we, they, we want them to be the ones doing the learning.
• 16:53
  Shane: We've already- Right
• 16:53
  Susie: who
• 16:53
  Shane: like to say.
• 16:54
  Gretchen: Right
• 16:54
  Susie: I love to say.
• 16:55
  Susie: You've al- you've already done seventh grade.
• 16:57
  Susie: So they need to do seventh grade.
• 17:00
  Susie: Yeah.
• 17:00
  Susie: And it's, while it's wonderful to establish- Mm-hmm strong relationships with your students, of course, we love- Mm-hmm being a loved teacher.
• 17:10
  Susie: If you create a situation where they only want to work for you, then you've really done them a disservice.
• 17:16
  Susie: Mm-hmm.
• 17:16
  Susie: You need, we need to establish that intrinsic motivation and that drive and that ownership- Mm-hmm so that they can do that no matter who's standing in front of them in the classroom.
• 17:26
  Susie: Yeah.
• 17:26
  Susie: And they will do that for themselves as they become adults.
• 17:30
  Gretchen: Yep, and I'll just layer onto that my view from outside in the academic coaching and executive function coaching and tutoring world.
• 17:38
  Gretchen: The one way I would slightly tweak, not disagree, but tweak what you just said, is there are some students, especially our neurodivergent sweeties- Mm who don't have the capacity for intrinsic motivation y- yet or for a very long time.
• 17:53
  Gretchen: And so, but that doesn't mean that we can't build their awareness of what you need.
• 17:58
  Gretchen: And if you need extrinsic motivators and rewards, then that gets to be okay, and you get to ask for it.
• 18:04
  Gretchen: And then the teacher who notices they depend on me and our good relationship just gets to add one little question, and I use this in coaching.
• 18:12
  Gretchen: I've never heard teachers use it before, but if you try it, let me know.
• 18:16
  Gretchen: And it's,"What did I do to help you learn today?"
• 18:19
  Shane: Yes.
• 18:19
  Gretchen: And, and how can you do that for yourself in the future?
• 18:22
  Gretchen: Yes.
• 18:22
  Gretchen: Beautiful.
• 18:22
  Gretchen: And when might you...
• 18:23
  Gretchen: Are there other skills you need to be ready to do that?
• 18:26
  Gretchen: I'm happy, I'm happy to support you right now, but let's make sure there's a plan so that you know that you're the one who gets to do that for yourself in the future.
• 18:35
  Gretchen: It's so exciting.
• 18:36
  Gretchen: It's so empowering.
• 18:37
  Gretchen: You're gonna get there.
• 18:38
  Gretchen: I believe in you, and how do we get you there?
• 18:41
  Susie: Love that Amazing Self-aware learners.
• 18:44
  Susie: Mm-hmm.
• 18:45
  Gretchen: That's what we want.
• 18:46
  Gretchen: Okay.
• 18:47
  Gretchen: But we met at the cognitive overload teach and presentation, and I was sharing how I...
• 18:55
  Gretchen: So my specialty is teaching educators how to teach students the least the students need to know about specific pieces of cognitive science that I have noticed, and all the coaches who've worked with me are noticing, move the students faster towards effective independent action.
• 19:13
  Gretchen: And I have been teaching a lot of stuff, you know, retrieval practice and all the things.
• 19:19
  Gretchen: But I have noticed that this cognitive overload mini lecture, which basically teaches about how working memory works, seems to be...
• 19:29
  Gretchen: It's moved to the top of my list as the first thing I share with students.
• 19:32
  Gretchen: So if they never hear anything else, they hear how working memory w- works, how overload works, and the fact that we need strategies to help us with our overload.
• 19:46
  Gretchen: We get...
• 19:46
  Gretchen: W- the brain we have, the working memory we have is the, is what we have.
• 19:50
  Gretchen: We can't improve it with exercise, but we can approve, improve our ability to use strategies, and it's so empowering I've noticed.
• 19:59
  Gretchen: Uh, but there was something about that presentation that really appealed to you all for your teachers.
• 20:04
  Gretchen: So will you talk about that some?
• 20:07
  Susie: Well, I think you're underselling you too.
• 20:09
  Susie: Yeah.
• 20:09
  Susie: I think you are- You- a large part of why we love that session.
• 20:14
  Susie: Mm-hmm.
• 20:14
  Susie: So let's make sure we throw that in, Gretchen.
• 20:16
  Gretchen: Okay.
• 20:18
  Shane: Because- it is the way, the w- the, the passion- Yes and the excitement that you bring to it, but in a very concise, visual way, right?
• 20:27
  Shane: You bring in your whiteboard.
• 20:28
  Shane: Mm-hmm.
• 20:29
  Shane: I just remember when you started, Suzie turns around to me and she goes,"We need her to come talk to our teachers."
• 20:36
  Susie: It's true.
• 20:36
  Susie: I did.
• 20:37
  Shane: And then she tracked you down at lunch.
• 20:38
  Shane: Yes.
• 20:39
  Susie: Yes.
• 20:39
  Susie: That's exactly how that went down.
• 20:41
  Susie: Yes.
• 20:41
  Susie: Yes.
• 20:42
  Susie: But truly, I'm not surprised at all that this has risen to the top- Yeah of your request list because we were just talking before we hopped on about every year in a, you know, eight years in now, there's usually one concept, one session that we've had that seems to-
• 20:57
  Shane: Like really
• 20:58
  Susie: stick land and resonate with the whole group more than anything else.
• 21:02
  Susie: And for us this year, it was yours.
• 21:04
  Susie: Mm-hmm.
• 21:05
  Susie: Oh.
• 21:05
  Susie: And it was around...
• 21:06
  Susie: It...
• 21:06
  Susie: True story.
• 21:07
  Susie: It was around- The working memory.
• 21:10
  Susie: And the metaphor that, and the visuals that you use equating it to parking spaces is, it's just genius, and it's so easy for people to understand, and how that affects student learning and transfer to long-term memory.
• 21:27
  Susie: And that's exactly why we thought this, this needs to be the message that we bring- Mm to our teachers.
• 21:33
  Shane: Because that concept was a bit...
• 21:35
  Shane: We go over it every year.
• 21:36
  Shane: Mm-hmm.
• 21:36
  Shane: But it is very abstract, right?
• 21:38
  Shane: Like-
• 21:38
  Gretchen: It's so abstract.
• 21:39
  Gretchen: It's heady.
• 21:40
  Gretchen: It's like,"Oh yeah, that exists." Right.
• 21:41
  Gretchen: But we don't experience it in ourselves, our own brains, much less how is it happening in students.
• 21:47
  Shane: Mm-hmm.
• 21:47
  Shane: Exactly.
• 21:48
  Shane: And so your concrete example of the parking spots became something that, uh, parking spots is now something that- Yeah we just, use use is in our, our, uh- Every common language.
• 22:00
  Shane: Mm-hmm.
• 22:00
  Susie: Everyday vocabulary now- Wow is parking spaces.
• 22:03
  Susie: Yeah.
• 22:03
  Susie: I don't have parking spaces anymore- Yeah or am I...
• 22:06
  Susie: I've got a full, I've got a full lot.
• 22:08
  Susie: I'm good.
• 22:08
  Susie: Yeah.
• 22:08
  Susie: Yeah.
• 22:09
  Susie: I can talk about this right now.
• 22:10
  Susie: I love
• 22:10
  Gretchen: that.
• 22:10
  Shane: But what was cool is the teachers were able to take that and- Mm internalize it, right?
• 22:16
  Shane: Mm.
• 22:16
  Shane: I still get, I'm getting feedback from- Mm PDs that aren't science of learning, but people that were in the science of learning that were then saying,"Yeah, this was hard today, but I think it's because my parking spaces were taken up." Yep.
• 22:27
  Shane: And I'm like,"Oh, this is a science of learning participant." Yes.
• 22:30
  Shane: I know...
• 22:31
  Shane: I don't know who this is- Yeah but I know that they're, what they're doing.
• 22:34
  Shane: Yeah.
• 22:34
  Shane: But then it was the transfer of that information to their students.
• 22:38
  Shane: To students.
• 22:38
  Shane: Mm-hmm.
• 22:39
  Susie: It happened immediately.
• 22:41
  Susie: They, they literally went back.
• 22:42
  Susie: We, we presented, or we worked with you on a Wednesday.
• 22:46
  Susie: Mm-hmm.
• 22:46
  Susie: And by Friday that day-
• 22:47
  Shane: I got
• 22:48
  Susie: emails.
• 22:48
  Susie: Mm-hmm.
• 22:49
  Gretchen: You sent one of them to me, but I didn't know- I know there were multiple, so.
• 22:52
  Susie: We were hearing, we were hearing from teachers- Yeah immediately that they had taken that exact concept, visuals, everything-
• 22:59
  Gretchen: Mm-hmm and
• 22:59
  Susie: taught it to their students.
• 23:00
  Susie: And we're talking kindergarten, first grade, all the way up to 12th.
• 23:05
  Gretchen: Mm-hmm.
• 23:06
  Gretchen: Yeah, that's what's shocking to me is the two examples that people...
• 23:09
  Gretchen: So after Denver, a teacher emailed me.
• 23:13
  Gretchen: Uh, and then after presenting for you all, you sent another one, and they were both second and third grade.
• 23:19
  Gretchen: And like, my specialty, I was a middle school teacher, but my real specialty is college and, like, high school and college.
• 23:25
  Gretchen: And so I'm just floored that something that I helped to create is working for the elementary kiddos too.
• 23:32
  Shane: Oh yeah, I was, so like we said, our final presentations were in early May, and I s- sat through a kindergarten presentation where the kindergarten teacher reflected on giving that, um, little less- mini lesson- Mm-hmm on working memory to her kindergartners.
• 23:47
  Shane: Mm.
• 23:47
  Shane: Her kindergartners were able to actually have language to let her know when they were overwhelmed, my parking spaces are filled up.
• 23:55
  Shane: Mm.
• 23:55
  Shane: Or, I feel like this is p- filling up a parking space.
• 23:58
  Shane: All the way to, I watched an administrator's final presentation,'cause we have administrators in our
• 24:03
  Susie: collab- Yeah, we had a principal in our group this year.
• 24:05
  Susie: Mm.
• 24:05
  Shane: And he was phenomenal, and he's also the 504 coordinator for his building as well.
• 24:10
  Shane: And he was saying- Mm how it was so helpful to have that concrete example when he's talking about working memory with parents.
• 24:19
  Shane: Mm-hmm.
• 24:20
  Shane: To be able to say, and this is why w- this particular accommodation is working, and let's, like, talk about what working memory is.
• 24:27
  Shane: Um, and parents were able to understand and grasp it.
• 24:30
  Gretchen: And so just to be able, it's a quick sketch that you can do.
• 24:32
  Gretchen: I mean, it takes about 15 minutes to teach it the way I teach it, but it can be shortened and shortened and shortened.
• 24:37
  Shane: Mm-hmm.
• 24:37
  Gretchen: Yeah.
• 24:38
  Gretchen: I do wanna name, the parking spot terminology was not mine originally.
• 24:42
  Gretchen: Oh.
• 24:42
  Gretchen: It was from a member of our community, Susanna Cole, uh, who, who was practicing teaching the working memory mini lecture that I had created, and she started using parking spot terminology, and then it took off in our community.
• 24:55
  Gretchen: And she got it from someone that she doesn't remember.
• 24:57
  Gretchen: Yeah.
• 24:57
  Gretchen: So if you're watching this and you're thinking,"I think I made that up," you might have.
• 25:01
  Gretchen: You might have.
• 25:01
  Gretchen: And let me know.
• 25:02
  Gretchen: And we're so grateful- And we're so grateful for people sharing good ideas.
• 25:07
  Susie: So, so grateful, because we liter- Like Shane said, we literally use it all the time.
• 25:12
  Susie: Yeah.
• 25:12
  Susie: We sometimes equate it to Trader Joe's parking lots.
• 25:16
  Susie: Mm-hmm.
• 25:16
  Susie: Because we all know how Trader Joe's parking spaces are this big- Mm-hmm and there's only four or five of them, at least in Colorado.
• 25:23
  Susie: I don't know about anywhere else, but in Colorado, they're the worst parking lots ever.
• 25:28
  Shane: We have the biggest cars because of the snow.
• 25:30
  Susie: Right.
• 25:31
  Gretchen: Oh, right.
• 25:31
  Gretchen: Biggest cars, smallest parking lots, which, you know, there's probably a good metaphor there- Right as well.
• 25:36
  Susie: Yes.
• 25:37
  Susie: I'm sure.
• 25:38
  Gretchen: And side note, some of our- Lab members who we like to call collaborators,'cause o- once you stay in the lab for a while you're bought into my, all my processes around the least you need to know and how to be visual and h- anyway, all of that.
• 25:53
  Gretchen: But we're, they're working on an, an addendum to this mini lecture that layers on processing speed.
• 26:00
  Gretchen: Mm-hmm.
• 26:00
  Gretchen: Because the truth is, it's not just that the car, the parking lots can get filled up, but it's how fast cars are coming in compared to your capacity.
• 26:12
  Gretchen: Yeah.
• 26:12
  Gretchen: And so being aware of that too is, is useful, and I still stand by, I'm always into what's the least you need to know, and if somebody doesn't know about processing speed but they learn about working memory in this way that I share, I still think it's the first stop.
• 26:28
  Gretchen: But there is this lovely little addition that people are working on, making it visual and fun and all of that.
• 26:34
  Susie: That makes so much sense.
• 26:36
  Susie: Mm-hmm.
• 26:36
  Susie: And I'm thinking about, I think I even mentioned it in our session, I'm generally a pretty fast processor.
• 26:43
  Susie: Mm-hmm.
• 26:43
  Susie: And there was one day where we were meeting and I had just come from a really heavy meeting, and you know-
• 26:50
  Shane: My processing speed
• 26:51
  Susie: like went all the way down w- all, see, sh- I think Shane could almost see it, just...
• 26:55
  Susie: And she looked at me and said,"Are you okay?" Because my processing speed was not at its normal-
• 27:01
  Gretchen: Yeah
• 27:02
  Susie: functioning rate.
• 27:03
  Susie: Yeah.
• 27:04
  Susie: And so that makes perfect sense to me.
• 27:06
  Susie: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
• 27:07
  Susie: That's really, that's-
• 27:08
  Gretchen: And they're tied together.
• 27:09
  Gretchen: There's not really a- Absolutely separation between- No the working memory capacity and the processing speed.
• 27:14
  Gretchen: So it's, it's kinda, so probably you were, you also had fewer parking spots.
• 27:18
  Gretchen: Oh.
• 27:18
  Gretchen: And then the more parking spots- Good question that are taken up, like, the m- the harder your brain has to process, and then your speed goes.
• 27:25
  Gretchen: Anyway, blah, blah, blah.
• 27:26
  Gretchen: There's regulation stuff.
• 27:27
  Susie: Yes.
• 27:28
  Gretchen: Blah, blah, blah.
• 27:28
  Gretchen: Mm-hmm.
• 27:30
  Gretchen: So, do you have other stories?
• 27:32
  Gretchen: I know y- you mentioned you had things to tell me, so I don't know if you have a list of things you wanted to mention, or have we said all the things we wanted to share?
• 27:40
  Gretchen: But if there's more, I'm all ears.
• 27:42
  Susie: Oh, there's more.
• 27:43
  Susie: There's more.
• 27:44
  Susie: So we, after, we were online with you and our- Yes
• 27:48
  Shane: members,
• 27:48
  Susie: and we-
• 27:49
  Shane: Cause we're
• 27:49
  Susie: hybrid.
• 27:49
  Susie: I'm not...
• 27:49
  Shane: One month on- Mm-hmm in person, one month online.
• 27:52
  Susie: Which if people are interested in, in reaching out about this model, that, that has been something that's been an integral piece, is the- Mm flexibility of in person and online.
• 28:03
  Susie: But the following month, we got so much great reaction about your presentation that people really wanted to know,"Okay, so how do we clear parking spots?"
• 28:13
  Shane: Mm.
• 28:13
  Susie: And so we, based on our conversation with you, which there are- there's more to it, I'm sure, but you mentioned, you know, movement breaks are a way to clear parking spots.
• 28:23
  Susie: Um, checks for understandings, retrieval checklists so that-
• 28:27
  Shane: Brain dumps
• 28:28
  Susie: brain dumps.
• 28:29
  Susie: Ri- and so what we did was our next meeting was in person, and we built our whole two-hour session in a m- in a way of we're clearing a parking space here.
• 28:40
  Susie: We did a movement break when they came in.
• 28:42
  Susie: Mm.
• 28:42
  Susie: And we even made l- it visual.
• 28:45
  Susie: We had a green check mark next to each place where we were modeling,"Oh, we're clearing a parking space right now." Yeah.
• 28:51
  Susie: And made it inc- totally transparent with the teachers in the room so they could actually see what a lesson might look like in their classroom where they would stop, brain dump- That's brilliant get up, and move, take a walk, take a drink of water, and clear parking spaces for kids.
• 29:08
  Susie: Mm.
• 29:08
  Susie: And it, it was
• 29:10
  Shane: such a hit.
• 29:11
  Gretchen: Mm-hmm.
• 29:11
  Shane: We were able to kind of meld that with, um, Gene Tavernetti's, uh, Teach Fast, right?
• 29:17
  Shane: Mm-hmm.
• 29:17
  Shane: His teaching model.
• 29:19
  Gretchen: Uh-huh.
• 29:19
  Gretchen: I don't, I, I've heard him present about it, but I don't remember it right now.
• 29:23
  Gretchen: But what's Do you know the name of the whole thing so people can look it up if they want to?
• 29:26
  Shane: Oh, I mean, it's- It's- His book is called Teach Fast, right?
• 29:29
  Gretchen: Oh, just The Teach Fast
• 29:30
  Shane: Book.
• 29:30
  Susie: Okay.
• 29:30
  Susie: And it's focused, adaptability.
• 29:33
  Susie: It's on, it's down
• 29:34
  Shane: below.
• 29:34
  Susie: It's literally
• 29:35
  Shane: on
• 29:36
  Susie: my shelf.
• 29:36
  Shane: It's
• 29:37
  Susie: not up.
• 29:37
  Susie: Yes.
• 29:37
  Susie: You took my shelf- Yeah but now
• 29:37
  Shane: I pulled
• 29:37
  Susie: it down.
• 29:37
  Susie: But it is brilliant, and it's about where to insert, the best places to insert this work and embed this work- Mm throughout your lesson.
• 29:46
  Susie: Oh, great.
• 29:47
  Susie: Um, so it w- it was a combination of those two concepts, and- Yeah the teachers just It was mind-blowing.
• 29:53
  Susie: Mm-hmm.
• 29:53
  Shane: It was an, a big aha for them.
• 29:56
  Shane: Mm.
• 29:56
  Shane: Not only now do we understand why we chunk, right, with work- to work with working memory.
• 30:02
  Susie: Mm-hmm.
• 30:02
  Shane: We now also have ways that we can clear parking spaces, and then also how do you do that in a way that is supporting their processing of the content that they've learned, so hopefully we're working on that storing.
• 30:15
  Shane: Mm-hmm.
• 30:15
  Shane: Right?
• 30:15
  Shane: Right.
• 30:15
  Shane: And we're making connections.
• 30:17
  Shane: Right.
• 30:17
  Shane: And we're hopefully putting it into long-term memory.
• 30:19
  Gretchen: Right.
• 30:20
  Gretchen: Right.
• 30:21
  Gretchen: Ah.
• 30:21
  Gretchen: I love it.
• 30:23
  Gretchen: It
• 30:23
  Shane: was, it was so exciting.
• 30:25
  Gretchen: Yeah.
• 30:25
  Gretchen: Yes.
• 30:26
  Gretchen: I'm noticing, I'm thinking through the lens of different people I know, and some of the executive function experts I work with would probably just wanna say here that just because you're doing a, an exercise like a, like a movement break or whatever doesn't mean parking spots are gonna get cleaned up for everybody.
• 30:42
  Gretchen: Correct.
• 30:42
  Gretchen: And it could be something that will take up parking spots in other brains.
• 30:46
  Gretchen: So just that we remember that every brain is different.
• 30:49
  Gretchen: That just feels- Every brain is different important to name.
• 30:52
  Gretchen: Every, every brain is the same, and every brain is different.
• 30:55
  Gretchen: And that's one of the, the weird things we're balancing, I think, in the science of learning world, is to not err on just one of those.
• 31:02
  Gretchen: Sometimes I think science of learning then assumes that every student is gonna need it exactly the same way, and then those of us who work in special ed and amongst neurodivergent folks are like,"Oh, we gotta be a little careful about that, too."
• 31:15
  Shane: Oh, yeah.
• 31:15
  Shane: I think about the work that we've done with dyslexia in our, um, in our district.
• 31:20
  Shane: Mm-hmm.
• 31:20
  Shane: And we talk about, uh, opportunities for accurate practice and repetitions and how some brains can do five to 15 repetitions of content, and that-
• 31:30
  Susie: Mm-hmm
• 31:31
  Shane: maps, right?
• 31:32
  Shane: And then sometimes it takes 50 to 500 repetitions, right?
• 31:36
  Shane: So as you said, it just, it's really dependent- Right on the student and how, how they're processing.
• 31:43
  Gretchen: Yeah.
• 31:43
  Gretchen: Yeah.
• 31:44
  Gretchen: Well, and another thought came up for me.
• 31:46
  Gretchen: Um, so now we're in collaborator mode'cause I was like, oh, did you do this?
• 31:50
  Gretchen: And if you didn't, do you think it would be helpful?
• 31:53
  Gretchen: And if you did, I'd like to hear about it.
• 31:54
  Gretchen: But th- this being when you were practicing the brain, or the just the different strategies to clear parking spots- Was there a moment of having people reflect beforehand, like a metacognitive moment?
• 32:07
  Gretchen: Like,"Let's pause.
• 32:09
  Gretchen: Where's the sta- how's everybody's parking spots doing?
• 32:12
  Gretchen: How many of you are full?
• 32:13
  Gretchen: How many of you are not so full?
• 32:15
  Gretchen: Let's just see where we are.
• 32:17
  Gretchen: Um, and now let's see if, let's do something to help with...
• 32:21
  Gretchen: that might help for some of you."
• 32:23
  Shane: Yeah, that's the exact
• 32:23
  Susie: first thing that we did.
• 32:24
  Susie: That was our, that was our check for understanding.
• 32:26
  Susie: Yeah.
• 32:27
  Susie: A- and, and truly we ha- you know, they come to us-
• 32:30
  Shane: After a full day of teaching
• 32:31
  Susie: 15.
• 32:32
  Susie: Yeah.
• 32:32
  Susie: They're coming to us racing across to- our district is enormous geographically.
• 32:37
  Shane: 400 square mile.
• 32:38
  Shane: 400
• 32:38
  Susie: square, right?
• 32:39
  Susie: Ah.
• 32:39
  Susie: So a lot of them racing to get to where we teach our in-person class.
• 32:44
  Susie: And so normally we're kind of,"Let's go.
• 32:47
  Susie: It's time to get going." And we pa- we took a,"Nope.
• 32:50
  Susie: We're...
• 32:51
  Susie: Everybody grab a snack and take a lap, and walk, and de- and just download your day." Yeah.
• 32:57
  Susie: And they all looked at us like,"This is the greatest gift.
• 33:01
  Susie: Thank you so much." Yeah.
• 33:02
  Susie: Mm-hmm.
• 33:02
  Susie: So- Okay.
• 33:03
  Gretchen: Yeah.
• 33:03
  Gretchen: Yeah, I don't have to sit and force my body into a structure and force all my energy into a seat and a table.
• 33:09
  Gretchen: And like I can be my full energ- self right now.
• 33:12
  Shane: Right.
• 33:12
  Shane: And I will say, we did have a couple teachers who looked at me and they went,"Do we have to walk?" And I went,"What do you need?" Mm-hmm.
• 33:18
  Shane: And they said,"I would rather just sit here in silence." Sit.
• 33:21
  Shane: Yeah.
• 33:21
  Shane: And I would like- And have a
• 33:21
  Gretchen: quiet
• 33:21
  Susie: moment let you do that.
• 33:23
  Susie: Beautiful.
• 33:23
  Susie: Yeah.
• 33:24
  Shane: Thank you for advocating for yourself.
• 33:26
  Susie: Right, yes.
• 33:26
  Susie: Take a break, right?
• 33:26
  Susie: Sit, sit.
• 33:27
  Susie: Yeah.
• 33:27
  Susie: And I think that sparked a little bit, and then we also came across...
• 33:32
  Susie: Do you follow the Substack SOL in the Wild?
• 33:35
  Susie: It, it is so great.
• 33:36
  Gretchen: Not with...
• 33:36
  Gretchen: I know of it.
• 33:37
  Gretchen: There's so many Substacks.
• 33:39
  Gretchen: I'm having trouble keeping up.
• 33:40
  Susie: A million, a million Substacks.
• 33:42
  Susie: But the, we have recently come across it this year.
• 33:45
  Susie: And there was, right, I think I sent it to you even, Gretchen, um, right before, last week there was an article that came up about the real bottleneck in explicit instruction being the teacher's working memory.
• 33:58
  Susie: And so next- Yes.
• 34:00
  Susie: Yes, right?
• 34:00
  Susie: Next year- I remember
• 34:01
  Gretchen: that
• 34:02
  Susie: next year where we really wanna take this is because we were sort of mainly focused on students' working memory, we wanna take this piece and really build this out.
• 34:14
  Susie: Because the point of the article was really that in order for your explicit instruction time to stay on track, you have got to shift the workload into your planning so that your working memory in the moment is not sidetracked.
• 34:31
  Susie: And it was just beautiful, beautifully written.
• 34:35
  Susie: And so I think that's where we're gonna...
• 34:37
  Susie: We kind of have a loose theme- Mm-hmm if you will.
• 34:40
  Shane: Yeah, like we said, we don't have a syllabus- Mm-hmm but we do have like a theme that we kind of- Yeah follow each year.
• 34:46
  Shane: Yeah.
• 34:47
  Susie: So we're gonna go, I think, here next year with- Mm how can we make your planning so intentional that your instruction in the moment is not taken off course?
• 34:58
  Gretchen: Mm.
• 35:00
  Gretchen: I think that's beautiful because actually, I mean, I'm, I'm so far gone from my classroom teaching days, but since I've been in the research ed world, I get to see some examples as I go to these conferences of explicit instruction.
• 35:11
  Gretchen: And the feeling in me, honestly, I, I can tell, like,"Okay, this is good.
• 35:16
  Gretchen: I can see why students would be engaged and learn." But I feel panic rising from my belly imagining, how could I move that fast?
• 35:26
  Gretchen: How could I know the next thing and keep my eye on?
• 35:29
  Gretchen: And I'm just like,"Oh, my God, the skill-building I would have to do would be enormous." And but I'm hearing you say that, right, like, if, if I, if I have time in the day and week to plan, I'd be able to do that.
• 35:44
  Gretchen: And this comes back to processing speed.
• 35:46
  Gretchen: Side note, I've also learned that I'm a slower processor.
• 35:50
  Susie: Oh.
• 35:51
  Gretchen: Which you wouldn't know by hearing me talk.
• 35:53
  Gretchen: I seem like I'm a very fast processor, but I'm actually a slower processor.
• 35:57
  Gretchen: And so it made me think with, with teachers and direct instruction how I, I love that you shared that about working memory, and also how processing speed would fit in there in terms of their own brains and their own executive function capacity.
• 36:09
  Susie: Right.
• 36:10
  Susie: Yeah.
• 36:10
  Susie: And I wonder if pr- our processing speed is different depending on what we're talking about, too.
• 36:15
  Gretchen: Totally.
• 36:16
  Susie: You use, like, working memory in the chunks, right?
• 36:18
  Susie: Your chunk- Mm-hmm gets bigger.
• 36:19
  Susie: Right.
• 36:20
  Susie: Yeah.
• 36:20
  Gretchen: It gets, it gets- When your prior knowledge, the more prior knowledge- Yes you have, the faster- Yeah you can go.
• 36:24
  Gretchen: Mm-hmm.
• 36:24
  Gretchen: And so I have a lot of prior knowledge at this point, so I can go fast.
• 36:28
  Gretchen: But with direct- Okay instruction techniques, I have no prior knowledge.
• 36:31
  Susie: Or students with maybe somebody's a super fast processor in math, but not- Mm as fast a processor with ELA or what have you.
• 36:39
  Susie: Right.
• 36:40
  Susie: So, you know, it, it's just fascinating.
• 36:42
  Susie: All of it is fascinating.
• 36:43
  Susie: Right.
• 36:43
  Susie: It's
• 36:43
  Gretchen: so interesting.
• 36:45
  Shane: When we think about, it talks about it in the Substack article, but also something that we've been working, me specifically ooh, actually both of us- Yeah with our literacy office.
• 36:54
  Shane: Mm-hmm.
• 36:54
  Shane: Um, funnily enough, ELA and literacy are not And we work very closely together, but we are two different offices.
• 37:00
  Shane: Mm-hmm.
• 37:02
  Shane: Um, but theirs is more tier two small group.
• 37:06
  Shane: Um- Mm-hmm and even though I kind of oversee that, it's like how do we make sure that we're aligned?
• 37:10
  Shane: And a lot of the work that we've done this year with the ELA collaborative is how do we become routined, right?
• 37:16
  Shane: Yes.
• 37:16
  Shane: How do we have just learning routines that are direct and explicit instruction so they are constant and consistent, and our processing and working memory is not on, what am I supposed to be doing?
• 37:28
  Shane: It's, I know what I'm supposed to be doing'cause it's the same every time.
• 37:30
  Shane: Mm-hmm.
• 37:31
  Shane: The content's just different.
• 37:31
  Shane: So now my focus is on the content, not on what am I being asked to do.
• 37:37
  Gretchen: Yes.
• 37:38
  Shane: Mm-hmm.
• 37:39
  Shane: And so those systems and routines- Yeah really do help with this.
• 37:42
  Gretchen: Yeah.
• 37:42
  Gretchen: I so identify with that.
• 37:43
  Gretchen: I mean, everything you're saying, I have a version of in the academic coaching and tutoring world.
• 37:48
  Gretchen: I'm about to After this, uh, time together, we'll be leading a free webinar called Meh to Motivated, with five coaching moves that I've discovered helps move- Great students and educators from meh to motivated, which is what I hear your science of learning collective has done for teachers.
• 38:05
  Gretchen: Yes.
• 38:06
  Susie: Exactly.
• 38:06
  Susie: That, but I, that title, we may have to ask you to borrow that.
• 38:10
  Susie: That- I love that that- From meh to motivated that's fantastic.
• 38:11
  Susie: To
• 38:12
  Shane: motivated.
• 38:13
  Susie: That's fantastic.
• 38:14
  Gretchen: Yeah.
• 38:15
  Susie: That's fantastic.
• 38:16
  Gretchen: And I'm realizing, so I hope I remember to say this when I teach the webinar, that I call them coaching moves, but really they're teaching moves.
• 38:22
  Gretchen: Anybody can do them when you're working with students.
• 38:25
  Gretchen: But they really are routines.
• 38:26
  Gretchen: They're coaching routines.
• 38:28
  Gretchen: Yeah.
• 38:28
  Gretchen: Um- They
• 38:29
  Shane: become internalized.
• 38:30
  Gretchen: Yes, yes.
• 38:31
  Gretchen: Uh, just the word routine is just kind of more boring.
• 38:33
  Gretchen: A move sounds more interesting.
• 38:34
  Gretchen: It, yeah, it
• 38:34
  Shane: sounds- It's meh.
• 38:35
  Shane: It's totally meh.
• 38:36
  Shane: That's meh, but the motivator is-
• 38:38
  Gretchen: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
• 38:41
  Gretchen: Move.
• 38:41
  Gretchen: Ex- exactly.
• 38:42
  Gretchen: Well, is there anything else you wanted to share that we haven't heard yet as we move into wrap up space, or did you share anything you were thinking?
• 38:50
  Gretchen: We
• 38:50
  Shane: shared all the things.
• 38:51
  Shane: I think we
• 38:51
  Gretchen: shared.
• 38:51
  Gretchen: Okay, great.
• 38:52
  Shane: This was wonderful, Gretchen.
• 38:53
  Shane: Thank you so much.
• 38:54
  Gretchen: Yeah.
• 38:54
  Shane: Yeah.
• 38:55
  Shane: We're talking with our teachers.
• 38:56
  Gretchen: Oh, my goodness.
• 38:57
  Gretchen: Yeah, it was, yeah, it was a great time.
• 38:57
  Gretchen: Well, I can't believe how just truly effective it was, and it gets me excited, actually, about doing more of these one-offs.
• 39:05
  Gretchen: It was just an hour and a half of my time.
• 39:08
  Shane: Mm-hmm.
• 39:08
  Gretchen: And normally- And we can get buy-in I'm so resistant'cause I don't think it's going to be...
• 39:12
  Gretchen: You know, we know that just lecture, being, lecturing to a group doesn't work.
• 39:17
  Gretchen: But I think because I knew that you guys were holding such a beautiful container for co-inquiry, I felt, and I knew that the teachers were choosing to be there, I felt really okay doing a one-off, and it's so beautiful to follow up and hear that it really did ripple, um, in, v- very far, across 400 square miles- True of
• 39:41
  Shane: your district.
• 39:41
  Shane: Great.
• 39:41
  Shane: Who knows?
• 39:41
  Shane: Who knows?
• 39:43
  Gretchen: So thank you so much.
• 39:44
  Gretchen: Is there anything you want people to know as we wrap about if they wanna find out more about y'all's work in your district, where they should go?
• 39:55
  Susie: Probably our podcast, I would say Yeah.
• 39:57
  Shane: I would say, uh, Vrain Waves if they wanna hear more just from...
• 40:00
  Shane: We do both, uh, we'll like hear from a, an educational giant.
• 40:04
  Shane: Mm-hmm.
• 40:04
  Shane: Someone like Dr.
• 40:05
  Shane: Pooja Agarwal was our latest- Mm-hmm educational giant.
• 40:07
  Gretchen: Yeah.
• 40:08
  Shane: I know, she's amazing.
• 40:09
  Shane: She was
• 40:09
  Susie: wonderful.
• 40:10
  Shane: And then we always do a follow-up podcast episode with teachers from our system that are doing the work, right, in theory that the educational giant said- Mm was talking about, and like what it looked like in their classroom.
• 40:20
  Susie: Oh.
• 40:21
  Shane: So that's something- Mm-hmm if they want to connect just and learn.
• 40:25
  Shane: Um, other than that, social media.
• 40:27
  Shane: Uh, I know that I'm on Instagram- She's on all the places X, I'm on TikTok, everywhere.
• 40:32
  Shane: You can find me All the places.
• 40:33
  Gretchen: I'll, I'll follow you then.
• 40:35
  Gretchen: Okay, good.
• 40:35
  Gretchen: I haven't followed you
• 40:36
  Susie: yet.
• 40:36
  Susie: I'm mostly X and LinkedIn.
• 40:38
  Susie: Um- Okay but yeah, we're on all the things.
• 40:40
  Susie: Yeah.
• 40:41
  Susie: And we...
• 40:41
  Susie: I think, yeah, I think our podcast, we love that we have shifted to highlighting educators in the classroom as well- Mm-hmm and not just the author and the speaker, but who's doing the work every day.
• 40:52
  Susie: Yeah.
• 40:53
  Gretchen: Yeah.
• 40:53
  Gretchen: Mm-hmm.
• 40:54
  Gretchen: Well, and I'll say to people who are curious about cognitive overload, I'm talking about it all the time, so get onto my list.
• 41:01
  Gretchen: But also, if you go to antiboringlearninglab.com, a- there's a free resources section, and I do, uh, model a bit of the mini lecture in our free library there.
• 41:10
  Gretchen: And then that will get you on my list, so as I continue to cultivate new details or like this processing speed edition, that will come out.
• 41:18
  Gretchen: And I actually did blog about teachers' working memory.
• 41:21
  Gretchen: After you sent that article to me- Oh, fantastic I blogged about it.
• 41:25
  Susie: Yes.
• 41:26
  Gretchen: Yeah, and just to put a...
• 41:27
  Gretchen: I just, it occurred to me, if you ever wanna have me come on the podcast, but, but invite some of the teachers who taught-
• 41:34
  Susie: Oh
• 41:34
  Gretchen: to their students- Yeah and just have us be all together'cause I'm not a giant.
• 41:37
  Gretchen: I don't necessarily need to take up a whole podcast.
• 41:40
  Susie: You are a giant.
• 41:42
  Gretchen: But I think it would be so fun to meet some of those teachers, to hear their stories, and to share a little bit more.
• 41:48
  Gretchen: So if that sounds fun, let me know.
• 41:49
  Gretchen: Love
• 41:50
  Susie: that.
• 41:50
  Susie: We'd love that.
• 41:50
  Susie: Love that.
• 41:51
  Gretchen: Yes.
• 41:51
  Gretchen: All right.
• 41:52
  Gretchen: So stay tuned, YouTube.
• 41:53
  Gretchen: Maybe you'll see that being, coming out at some point.
• 41:56
  Gretchen: But anyway, thank you all so much for being here.
• 41:59
  Susie: You're welcome.
• 41:59
  Susie: Thank you, Gretchen.
• 42:00
  Susie: Thanks for having us