Latest / Roast the Post Podcast / Chief of Staff: The Junk Drawer Executive

Transcript

Chief of Staff: The Junk Drawer Executive · Roast the Post Podcast

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, I'm Paul.
• 0:01
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to Roast the Post, the story behind the bullet points.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_01: I read job postings like an x-ray for how a company actually works.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_01: And every week,
• 0:10
  Jen and I take a real one apart to see what it's really asking
• 0:13
  and what lurks
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_01: beneath the surface.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: Let's roast this post.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, everybody.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome back to another episode of Roast the Post.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_01: It is kind of cool, Jen.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_01: This week, we have our very first listener submitted post.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_01: This came in from Ryan in Peterborough, Canada.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_01: So we're going to get into it.
• 0:36
  It's for a chief of staff role,
• 0:39
  which we've done chief of staff role before.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_01: But this one, this one's kind of fun.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_01: It's a little bit capitalist finance run amok.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's a little bit crazy.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: There's a little bit of honesty in it.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_01: I think you're going to like it.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_00: I'm looking forward to this.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks so much, Ryan, for submitting.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: I cannot wait.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, thanks, Ryan.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: So this is Chief of Staff, like I mentioned.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_01: We'll start off with the Roasty Profile.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_01: This is just kind of what the job ad is.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_01: So title of the job, Chief of Staff, Reports to the Founder,
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: This company is 11 to 50 employees.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: The industry that they're in is investment management.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_01: And what do they do?
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_01: Well,
• 1:25
  they facilitate acquisitions of and investments in small
• 1:29
  businesses throughout
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_01: North America.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_01: Their head office location is in New York, New York.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_01: The job location is remote anywhere in North America.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_01: The geographical operating area is North America.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_01: And the type of job is permanent full time.
• 1:47
  So that is the chief of staff role that we are going to be
• 1:52
  talking about.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: This job ad has a few different sections in it.
• 1:58
  There is an about the job section that has a section where it
• 2:04
  describes the company
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_01: as another section where it describes the role.
• 2:09
  has another section describing what you'll own,
• 2:12
  and that's verbatim from the job post.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_01: Another section is called your first 90 days.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_01: Another section is who you are.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_01: Another section is what we offer.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_01: Another section is a few honest words.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_01: And the final section is how to apply.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_01: So I've gone through and I've read this job post end to end.
• 2:39
  I've kind of highlighted some things that I want Jen to kind of
• 2:43
  talk about a little bit.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_01: We're going to banter about it.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: She has not seen this job ad yet.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_01: We're going to go through it sight unseen, score it.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_01: And then at the end of the show,
• 2:52
  Jen and I'll talk a little bit about the bigger picture after
• 2:54
  she's had a chance to
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_01: read through the job ad.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_01: So first thing, Jen, that really stuck out for me is this.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_01: And this is in a section called the role.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_01: So they're describing what the job actually is.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_01: You'll do the work yourself first,
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_01: build the systems to scale it,
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_01: then hand it off cleanly as you take on higher leverage work.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_01: And this is a chief of staff role.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: Does anything come to mind for you when I say that?
• 3:29
  no no i think i'm just still wrapping my head around all of
• 3:32
  those different
• 3:33
  sections um because some of them are so odd so i think i'm just
• 3:38
  still in that
• 3:39
  mindset um i mean so you'll do the work first build the systems
• 3:45
  hand it off so you
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_00: can do other stuff is that basically what they're saying
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it seems to me that that's kind of what they're saying.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_01: And this is so like this is a chief of staff role and chief of staff.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_01: It can mean different things, right?
• 3:58
  Like a chief of staff can be a chief of staff,
• 4:00
  like responsible for people.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_01: But it really it really seems to me in this job role that.
• 4:07
  it's not really a you're leading a whole bunch of people type
• 4:12
  of chief of staff job
• 4:13
  it seems very very hands-on with systems and strategy so i i
• 4:18
  kind of wonder if
• 4:19
  there's something if there's something there that might be a
• 4:22
  little bit weird like
• 4:23
  if you're required to kind of herd all of the cats and be the
• 4:27
  person doing the work
• 4:28
  and building like is that going to be a lot is it going to be
• 4:30
  too much yeah i mean
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: i see like chief of staff roles to me are really interesting because they
• 4:37
  in essence are kind of meant to be the CEO's right hand person
• 4:42
  is my understanding.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_00: I see it left,
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: even though it's called chief of staff,
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_00: I see it less as like a,
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 4:51
  managing people type role or being in charge of the staff type
• 4:56
  role and more like
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: the right hand person for the CEO.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_00: So for me,
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know that anything in that first part has stood out to me as odd,
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_00: but it must have for you.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_00: What's weird to you there?
• 5:13
  And you know that that that by itself doesn't say a whole lot
• 5:16
  to me that one
• 5:17
  sentence where it says you're going to do the work yourself
• 5:19
  first prototype it
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: really and then hand it off cleanly.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_01: That that itself doesn't really say much of anything,
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_01: but I thought it was,
• 5:26
  I thought it was perhaps a little bit weird to kind of put that
• 5:30
  in with a chief of
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_01: staff.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_01: Like I would,
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_01: I would figure that,
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_01: if you're,
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_01: you're building systems,
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_01: uh,
• 5:39
  stress testing them and then training other people and handing
• 5:43
  off that you're,
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_01: you're not really a chief of staff.
• 5:45
  Like you're more like an operations lead or a director of
• 5:48
  something or other.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_01: Like there was a little bit of,
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_01: of kind of strangeness there for me,
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_01: but yeah,
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_01: small organization,
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_01: 11 to 50 people.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_01: So like a lot of people wearing a lot of hats.
• 5:59
  this is the thing and this is why i think that this is our
• 6:02
  second chief of staff
• 6:04
  role that we're roasting so far and i don't think it's our last
• 6:08
  i think everyone
• 6:10
  has a different definition of the chief of staff role and what
• 6:13
  it means so it's not
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: a surprise to me that you know there's there's
• 6:19
  disconnect between what this role actually is I think from org
• 6:24
  to org I think some
• 6:25
  it's going to vary I think some people are like oh it's a
• 6:27
  glorified EA type role or
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: some people think it's you know a role that knows the intricacies of the
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: organization can can step in for the CEO in terms of like
• 6:42
  in place during a meeting or something like that is like a CEO
• 6:46
  whisperer can
• 6:47
  translate the CEO's vision and then get everyone else to act on
• 6:52
  it and everything.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't know, I think it varies so widely.
• 6:56
  I was just reading a chief of staff job posting not too long
• 7:00
  ago and they were
• 7:00
  asking about specific type of coding skills and like what type
• 7:05
  of coding language
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_00: you need to use.
• 7:07
  and i was like it's a chief of staff role like what are they
• 7:10
  coding so it's it's
• 7:12
  kind of like what you're saying to like what is the work that
• 7:14
  they're actually
• 7:14
  going to be doing what is this company's understanding of the
• 7:18
  chief of staff role
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_00: because it is i think all over the place
• 7:22
  Yeah,
• 7:22
  and you think about the chief of staff roles in political
• 7:26
  organizations too,
• 7:27
  right?
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's also very different.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_01: You know,
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_01: if you're the chief of staff for a political campaign,
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_01: you're kind of like a movie producer.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_01: You're just making all the things happen.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_01: But it's a very powerful role.
• 7:39
  Still different from kind of what we see in the business world
• 7:42
  from a chief of staff.
• 7:44
  Let's move on to the next thing that I kind of stood out for me
• 7:48
  a little bit.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_01: This is in the what you'll own section.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_01: And for the folks at home,
• 7:54
  hit the show notes if you want to read the full job description
• 7:57
  and kind of follow
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_01: along.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_01: We've got a link to the job description there.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_01: It's on the episode page.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_01: So if you want to follow along, that's what to do.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway, the next section, what you'll own,
• 8:08
  this is the first thing that stood out for me and kind of
• 8:11
  verbatim it reads be the
• 8:13
  founders force multiplier drive prioritization crap and follow
• 8:19
  through so decisions
• 8:20
  don't stall earn strategy into execution when something's
• 8:25
  falling through the
• 8:26
  cracks or a project needs someone to drive it home that's you
• 8:32
  that's what it says
• 8:33
  So this is where we go to the herding cats part thing that
• 8:36
  you're talking about.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_00: Like basically,
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_00: um,
• 8:40
  I hope that this person has a lot of like influence in the
• 8:44
  organization and that
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_00: authority to,
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: to move forward because
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, if things are falling through the cracks, that's that's you.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_00: And it's under like what you own section.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_00: So like if people aren't pulling their weight,
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_00: if people are dropping the ball,
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_00: that's your responsibility to get them back on track.
• 9:03
  Makes me wonder how I can't remember if we talked about the
• 9:05
  size of the org.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's relatively small, right?
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, 11 to 50 people.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because it just makes me wonder about the structure.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_00: If there are managers, things like that, because I
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: project managers or anything to where that ownership should live,
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_00: not necessarily with this chief of staff role.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that that's really interesting as well.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_01: Mm hmm.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_01: I this reading this that this statement really,
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_01: it sounds to me like the chief of staff is,
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_01: you said it number two to the CEO.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_01: It also a little bit sounds like in practice,
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_01: the chief of staff is actually going to have more power than the founder.
• 9:56
  like the only person that has power or authority over the chief
• 9:59
  of staff is going
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_01: to be the founder and CEO.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_01: But from the day to day running of the organization,
• 10:04
  it really sounds like this chief of staff is going to be
• 10:07
  connected to kind of
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_01: everything and everyone everywhere.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_01: So they'll have a lot more operational power than even the CEO,
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_01: which I find very,
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: very interesting.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_00: I do want to note,
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_00: too,
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_00: that we've said a few times that we keep saying CEO,
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_00: CEO,
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_00: and in this case,
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: it's reporting to the founder.
• 10:26
  In larger organizations,
• 10:27
  they're chief of staffs for like departmental chief of staffs
• 10:30
  as well.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_00: So it's not always a CEO, but it's just worth noting for this situation.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: We're being very specific about this role.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, it does sound like they
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: They will have a lot of responsibility,
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_00: I guess I still go back to whether or not they have that authority.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: But if they're saying if the section is called what you own.
• 10:53
  then to me that does read as though you're going to have that
• 10:56
  authority too this
• 10:57
  this like lives and dies with you so yeah yeah i i would um i
• 11:02
  would kind of like to
• 11:03
  to sit down with the person who wrote this job ad and ask them
• 11:07
  why they chose to
• 11:08
  title uh this role chief of staff instead of chief operating
• 11:13
  officer it sounds like
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: ops yeah
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_01: So this to me,
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_01: like so far,
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_01: it reads like this is a COO in a small company that's very hands-on.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_01: Like that would make perfect sense to me.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: And here's the thing.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_00: This is why I was curious about like their reporting structure,
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_00: their org chart,
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_00: because if they already have someone in an ops role,
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_00: like the lines are gonna get crossed.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: This is gonna be, these two roles are gonna be butting heads constantly.
• 11:36
  And if they don't already have that role,
• 11:38
  then why do chief of staff before you do the ops role?
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's an interesting choice.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_01: Good point.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's a good point.
• 11:47
  The next point in this section that stuck out to me that I
• 11:49
  wanted to put in front of you.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_01: So again, this is what you'll own, the section in the job ad.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: It reads,
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_01: unblock the business,
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: jump into live issues in brackets,
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_01: pipeline bottlenecks,
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: team gaps,
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: member escalations,
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: and members or customers in this context,
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_01: like the company's customers,
• 12:08
  process breakdowns and brackets and move things forward without
• 12:12
  waiting for
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_01: permission.
• 12:15
  okay so this this company has a lot of problems there are a lot
• 12:20
  of issues this is a
• 12:22
  fixer this is a fixer role uh i don't feel like it's
• 12:27
  necessarily a chief of staff
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_00: role i think that you would get pigeonholed very quickly
• 12:34
  into being the fixer um and i don't know what i don't know how
• 12:39
  that like grows you
• 12:41
  i don't know how you're learning like the ins and outs of the
• 12:44
  the business itself
• 12:46
  when you're basically fixing all the problems like the language
• 12:49
  is very very clear
• 12:50
  they're they're they're speaking to problems that they
• 12:54
  experience in their
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_00: organization bottlenecks and roblox and
• 12:58
  you know fall through the cracks and all this stuff so um to me
• 13:02
  it's not appealing
• 13:04
  personally luckily they're not asking me to take this job um
• 13:08
  but it sounds like so
• 13:09
  far when you read through job postings they're when you're
• 13:13
  reading really carefully
• 13:14
  and like what we're trying to do here is a good example of that
• 13:18
  some of them are
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_00: really negative
• 13:21
  it and you think to yourself that this sounds shitty i don't
• 13:25
  know that i would want
• 13:26
  to do all this sounds hard and so so far you can read that
• 13:30
  there's there's a lot of
• 13:32
  you would be doing a lot of negative type stuff you would be
• 13:34
  doing a lot of like
• 13:36
  nagging and pleading and asking and convincing and fixing and
• 13:41
  that's just so
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_00: unappealing to me
• 13:45
  And to layer in on top of what you're saying for a little bit
• 13:48
  more context,
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_01: this is in the investment management industry.
• 13:53
  So we're kind of talking about like finance and finance does
• 13:56
  not have a reputation
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_01: for being kind and cuddly.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 14:02
  So when you go to those people and you're pushing them and
• 14:05
  nudging them and all of
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_00: those things that we said,
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_00: like you're going to be met with a lot of resistance,
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_00: which is why they this is why they want this role,
• 14:13
  but they want someone to do it for them because whatever
• 14:16
  they're doing now ain't
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_00: working.
• 14:18
  yeah i think you're very much on point like when i read that
• 14:21
  sentence um to me it
• 14:22
  stood out as like your job is to go in and unfuck the
• 14:28
  clusterfuck yes yes it should
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_00: be deep of unfucking
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, the chief of unfucking.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_01: That'd be a great job title for this.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_01: Some people are awesome at that.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_01: Some people really, really, really excel at that.
• 14:44
  But I really wonder if the chief of staff branding is going to
• 14:50
  help or hurt in
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_01: their search for that person.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_01: That kind of sticks out to me quite a bit.
• 14:55
  This is a good point because if you are the chief of staff and
• 14:59
  you're going to go
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_00: unfuck all of their stuff for them,
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_00: And say it is like the customers or the clients or whatever.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_00: And they're like, who are you again?
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_00: You're the chief of stuff, right?
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like what, what kind of weight and authority does that role carry?
• 15:15
  When we at the top of this episode talked about the dissonance
• 15:19
  that this type of
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_00: role experiences,
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_00: like there's,
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_00: there's kind of like this general,
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know,
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: the role just is whoever thinks like,
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_00: can't even talk right now.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: Whoever decides like what the role is, that's what the role is.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_01: even if you have internally that authority,
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_01: right,
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_01: amongst the people in your organization,
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_01: everybody in your organization knows that the chief of staff,
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_01: like,
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_01: It's the poobah.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_01: They have the authority.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_01: Are they going to have perceived authority outside of the organization?
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_01: So if you're having difficult conversations with investors or members,
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_01: and they're like,
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_01: like you said,
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_01: like,
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_01: so you're the chief of staff,
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_01: can you actually fix this problem?
• 16:04
  Is that going to hold you back when you're trying to solve
• 16:06
  these problems that this
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_01: organization kind of has?
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_01: Let's move on to the next section.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_01: So this section is basically highlighted everything in this section.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_01: This section is your first 90 days.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_01: So this is all bullet points.
• 16:25
  The first one is basically it says,
• 16:28
  you know,
• 16:28
  verbatim,
• 16:29
  you won't ease in.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_01: Here's what you'll tackle immediately.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_01: And then bullet points.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_01: Hiring.
• 16:36
  Own recruiting for key roles across the business,
• 16:38
  from scoping to sourcing to closing.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_01: Next bullet point, coaching efficiency.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_01: Leverage AI to improve how our coaches operate,
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_01: reducing manual work and increasing client impact.
• 16:51
  next bullet point new product or service launch scope validate
• 16:55
  and begin building
• 16:56
  out a new ai powered product or service offering that extends
• 17:00
  our platform's value
• 17:01
  to members you'll own it from concept through early delivery
• 17:05
  next bullet point
• 17:06
  sales team ai uplift deploy ai tools to score calls surface
• 17:11
  coaching opportunities
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_01: and recover revenue gaps across our sales team
• 17:16
  final bullet point investor intelligence build systems to
• 17:21
  identify and prioritize
• 17:22
  high potential investors in our ecosystem for what you have
• 17:30
  thoughts you have
• 17:32
  thoughts i thought i started writing notes and then i just
• 17:35
  stopped because i was
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: like
• 17:37
  like were they writing a chief of staff job description and
• 17:42
  they tripped and fell
• 17:43
  and landed into like a puddle of sales and coaching and hr like
• 17:50
  what is happening
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_00: this this is
• 17:54
  absolutely and i'm really curious about ryan setting this in
• 17:57
  and you know what if
• 17:59
  they gave any context or their own thoughts about this because
• 18:04
  obviously it stood
• 18:05
  out enough for for a listener to send something in um i feel
• 18:09
  like this section is
• 18:10
  why yeah this section is why kudos to to finding this job and
• 18:14
  sending it in um i
• 18:16
  don't even know what to say i'm curious they mentioned coaching
• 18:20
  a few times do you
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_00: know what the context is for that like
• 18:23
  yes yeah so and that that would become apparent if you had read
• 18:26
  um uh the entire
• 18:28
  job posting ahead of time but which we don't do because it's
• 18:31
  more fun for the show
• 18:32
  yeah a part of their business model is to have coaches working
• 18:37
  directly with
• 18:37
  members who buy businesses so these folks are managing the
• 18:41
  investment um basically
• 18:42
  buying up uh smes across north america for people who want to
• 18:46
  you know sell them
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_01: and people who want to buy them
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_01: Small, medium enterprise, small businesses.
• 18:52
  So this organization has just a whole bunch of listings for
• 18:56
  companies that are up
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_01: for sale that are kind of like mom and pop indie sort of thing.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_01: Then on the buy side,
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: they've got buyers who come in and buyers could be private equity,
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_01: could be investors,
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_01: could be people who just want to run a business and have some cash.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_01: So they kind of facilitate that deal making in the middle.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_01: And then a part of their businesses,
• 19:13
  they have coaches that work with the buyer to integrate them
• 19:16
  into the business and
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_01: help things kind of roll along smoothly.
• 19:20
  So when they're talking about coaches,
• 19:21
  they're talking about those people.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 19:25
  Is it kind of like an ETA fund,
• 19:28
  like entrepreneurship through acquisition type?
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's that kind of thing.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: But they have a part of their business is they have an investment arm.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_01: So they'll do some investments themselves.
• 19:41
  But then they also have an affiliate PE firm that sometimes
• 19:44
  participates,
• 19:45
  sometimes doesn't.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_01: And then they have this coaching thing.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_01: It's like the third leg of their business model.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_01: So it's quite a bit like an ETA.
• 19:50
  okay so this this is interesting this is to me um they didn't
• 19:55
  know what to call
• 19:56
  this role and for obvious reasons they didn't want to say like
• 20:04
  we're hiring for
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_00: like a clusterfuck
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_00: So we're going to hire, we're going to call it a chief of staff role.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I think this is what this is.
• 20:13
  They basically need so many things,
• 20:16
  but they're like,
• 20:17
  what is the title for this?
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_00: Let's call it chief of staff.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_00: This is not a chief of staff.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I just can't even, I'm a little bit stunned and I'm really sorry.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_00: I keep swearing a lot.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_00: We're recording this on a Monday.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: Paul and I were talking about how tired we are.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_01: This episode is absolutely getting the explicit label.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so sorry.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_00: My apologies, everyone.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's all I have to say about that.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's not a chief of staff.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's a junk drawer role.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 20:50
  It's when you're seeing and they'll have a challenge finding
• 20:55
  someone who excels at
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_01: all these areas.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 20:59
  Because you want someone who's going to do pairing and people
• 21:04
  managing and develop
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_01: new monetizable products in the finance industry,
• 21:10
  like in the investment kind of management industry and build
• 21:15
  and deploy AI tools.
• 21:17
  and build and deploy uh intelligence tools for like for your
• 21:22
  general partners
• 21:24
  that's something it makes me wonder what are the other 11 to 50
• 21:30
  people in the
• 21:30
  company up to because why is this person responsible for so
• 21:34
  many things on top of
• 21:36
  that remember what we talked about like what you'll own this is
• 21:38
  like the first the
• 21:40
  first 90 days and they even say explicitly you won't ease into
• 21:44
  it like you or you
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_00: got to hit the ground running
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, that's that's really interesting.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_01: Getting all of those things listed accomplished in 90 days.
• 21:56
  I will say,
• 21:57
  I do like the idea of a first 90 days section in a job posting.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_00: I've seen those before, like your first 30 days, your 60 days, 90 days.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_00: I don't mind that.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_00: We've talked about this before, though.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: To keep it brief,
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_00: to keep the most important things,
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think that that's the most important thing.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_00: I think that can come out in the interview.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: I would rather focus on attracting candidates.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_00: This is not attractive.
• 22:28
  So I don't know why I guess they're trying to filter out people
• 22:32
  who aren't going to
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_00: take it seriously.
• 22:33
  They want like,
• 22:34
  go getters and like entrepreneurial mindset and all that stuff.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_00: So I guess that's what they're trying to do here.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: But it doesn't make for an attractive job posting.
• 22:43
  That's a,
• 22:44
  that's a really great segue into the next point that stood out
• 22:47
  for me.
• 22:47
  So this is in a section titled who you are and verbatim,
• 22:52
  it says an entrepreneur at heart.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_01: You think like a founder,
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_01: uh,
• 22:56
  you see opportunities before they're obvious move on them
• 22:59
  without being asked and
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_01: take full ownership of outcomes.
• 23:04
  So I think that that sentence reinforces what you were just
• 23:08
  saying and probably
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: ties into what you were thinking before.
• 23:11
  But,
• 23:12
  you know,
• 23:13
  seeing out there in the job ad,
• 23:15
  does that kind of add anything for you?
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_01: Or is it just like, yeah, that kind of backs up what I was saying.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: That backs up.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_01: Okay,
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_01: so the next thing that stood out for me then in the same section,
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_01: who you are,
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_01: you're AI obsessed.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_01: You don't just use AI tools,
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_01: you are the person who finds them first,
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_01: stress tests them,
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_01: and figures out how to deploy them before anyone else.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_01: Does that make you have thoughts?
• 23:44
  It makes you have thoughts because you gave me some eyes when
• 23:48
  you said that.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_00: I mean uses them before anyone else.
• 23:54
  It makes me feel like they don't have like an AI policy or
• 24:00
  process because how
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: would you know if you're using,
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_00: do they mean before anyone else internally,
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_00: before anyone else like in the world?
• 24:09
  They want you to wake up,
• 24:11
  brush your teeth with AI,
• 24:12
  wipe your butt with AI,
• 24:14
  AI,
• 24:14
  AI,
• 24:15
  AI.
• 24:16
  Yeah,
• 24:18
  this job ad really reads like it's not just an AI policy that
• 24:22
  they don't have.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like there's a lot of policy and process that they don't have.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_01: Small organization, 11 to 50.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_01: This is literally 12 people.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_01: I get it.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_01: If it's 50, you should have some of your stuff figured out.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_00: But they can use AI to build all those policies.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_01: Why not?
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_01: Why not?
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_01: for me,
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_01: this one just kind of adds to that whole idea that you're looking for,
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_01: as you described,
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_01: a junk drawer person.
• 24:56
  to come in like it it reads like you want the best of the best
• 25:02
  of the best to come
• 25:03
  in but all of the things are just cobbled together and like
• 25:07
  they're duct taped
• 25:07
  together like it doesn't make a lot of sense to me it's very
• 25:10
  it's very interesting
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_00: too because they're they
• 25:14
  are clearly really like crushing hard on AI,
• 25:18
  which is totally fine,
• 25:19
  whatever.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_00: I can't wait to find out whether or not they have an AI disclaimer,
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_00: uh,
• 25:25
  about whether or not they use AI for their screening and like
• 25:29
  recruitment and
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_00: interview process.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_00: So that will be interesting.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I would also be curious,
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_00: like when you ask people to have,
• 25:35
  to act like a founder and have an entrepreneurial mindset and
• 25:37
  things like that,
• 25:38
  I should hope then that you have a really good compensation
• 25:42
  structure to reflect
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_00: that ask because it's reciprocal,
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_00: right?
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_00: You're asking this person to basically,
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_00: if you're wanting them to be like a founder,
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_00: that's putting their whole life into this work and to put it first.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um,
• 25:57
  so you better pay for that and that should include shares in
• 26:01
  the company or
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_00: whatever,
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_00: uh,
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_00: whatever that looks like.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_00: So it'll, yeah, curious to see if they include any of that information.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we will.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_01: We will absolutely get to that.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_01: Next thing that stood out to me is who you are again.
• 26:16
  You've had three to seven years in a startup,
• 26:18
  high growth or consulting environment.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_01: You've operated in fast moving companies and know what good looks like.
• 26:25
  And then there's kind of a sub point to that that says you
• 26:27
  thrive in constant context switching.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_01: You can juggle 10 plus priorities and still execute with precision.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_00: Do they supply the cocaine or do they have to buy it themselves?
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_01: Well, this is New York finance, right?
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm sure it's all over the place.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_00: Then it's everywhere.
• 26:44
  It's just like in gumball machines at the entrance of the
• 26:47
  office at the reception.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_00: So...
• 26:52
  i mean that is again this goes back to what i just said that is
• 26:56
  a big ask like you
• 26:59
  have to be able to do everything all the time and do it
• 27:03
  perfectly uh which like
• 27:06
  sure we want people to do their job and do their job well
• 27:10
  that's what we're paying
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_00: them for
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_00: But to give this,
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_00: whoever wrote the job posting,
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_00: and I'm guessing it's AI because even though it doesn't sound like it,
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_00: but even though they love their AI so much,
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_00: they're being honest,
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_00: but there's still a section.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_00: I have it written down that you said a few honest words.
• 27:30
  So they're being very,
• 27:32
  very honest about what it's gonna be like and what they want.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_00: So at least there's that.
• 27:38
  yep yep this um this this is definitely for me reinforcing that
• 27:44
  uh you are going to
• 27:45
  be kind of always on you're going to be stretched and
• 27:49
  challenged and um there isn't
• 27:51
  going to be a lot of tolerance for kind of learning or for
• 27:56
  screwing up or for
• 27:58
  things not going kind of the way that they're intended to go
• 28:02
  like this is it's
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_01: really standing up to me to be like a
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_01: kind of a fire pit that you might fall into it pretty easily.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_00: That's such a good point.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_00: I love that you said that there's going to be little to no tolerance.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_00: It screams that.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_00: That is such a good point.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_01: The next section is what we offer.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_01: And a couple of things stood out for me here too.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to read the second one first.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_01: Direct access to the founder.
• 28:31
  You'll work alongside the CEO daily and collaborate closely
• 28:36
  with the leadership team.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, lucky.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_00: You mean they get direct access to the person they're reporting to?
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_01: I know, right?
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_01: That stood out for me too.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like, that's a benefit?
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_01: Isn't that just a part of the job?
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_01: Like,
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_01: is this person,
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know,
• 28:54
  maybe this person is just awesome and you want to be around
• 28:57
  them all the time,
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_01: this founder.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe they're,
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 28:59
  kind of like hanging out with Jerry Seinfeld at the coffee shop
• 29:02
  or something.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_01: You're just going to have a blast.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_00: Who knows?
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_00: Jerry Seinfeld?
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_01: I'd want to hang out with Jerry Seinfeld if I was,
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_01: in that mindset and I wanted to do nothing for a year.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_00: It's time for me to take a sip.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_00: I think we've got the hystericos.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_01: We have the hystericos.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_00: No, that sounds hilarious.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like I putting that as a benefit,
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_00: like direct access to the person that you're reporting to is wild.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_01: The other thing that stood out for me,
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_01: and you will like this,
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_01: that they offer competitive based salary,
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_01: depending on experience,
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_01: plus significant performance based upside.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_01: And to answer your question, no, they did not list the salary range.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_01: So we don't know what competitive base is.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_01: We don't know what performance-based upside is.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_01: And they didn't have a disclosure about use of AI.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_01: Now, New York State, maybe they don't have to.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_01: So maybe they're not doing anything wrong there.
• 30:00
  But they're not telling you anything about the kind of money
• 30:03
  that you can earn here.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_00: Is there a benefits section too?
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_00: Or that was it?
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_00: No, ma'am.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, there's a huge, this is what we mean.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_00: This is why Paul and I started this podcast,
• 30:19
  because you are going to learn everything you need to know
• 30:22
  about this company,
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_00: about the culture by this job posting.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_00: They're telling you everything you need to know.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like, that's it.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_00: You walk into this place and you cannot be shocked.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_00: Like, yeah.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_01: Wonderful.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_01: And some people will love this.
• 30:39
  They will love this type of job because it aligns with their
• 30:42
  personality and their
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_01: values and whatnot.
• 30:44
  But if there's any misalignment between what you are and what
• 30:47
  you want in this
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_01: place,
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_01: it'll be awful.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_01: You will fall apart.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_01: The episode that we roasted for the designer in the agency,
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_01: where on Glassdoor they said,
• 30:59
  toilets are not suitable for the amount of time you'll spend
• 31:01
  crying in them.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_01: This got some vibes of that.
• 31:05
  oh big time absolutely like this and and it screams to me like
• 31:10
  a type of bro
• 31:11
  culture like you said finance culture type thing where like
• 31:16
  work hard play hard um
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_00: and there's no talk about how they care for you
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 31:24
  There's no again,
• 31:24
  like you said,
• 31:25
  they don't talk about the pay or anything like that.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_00: There's no talk about any other benefits.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_00: You're going to be exhausted.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_00: You're going to be working nonstop.
• 31:32
  What are they doing then to support that so it can be more
• 31:35
  realistic and sustainable?
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_00: Nothing.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_01: And just for fun, I'm going to read out the how to apply section.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_01: So how you can apply.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_01: Send your resume with a short Loom video,
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_01: two or three minutes to email address with the subject line.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_01: I'm your chief of staff.
• 31:53
  and then tell us why this role excites you and what makes you
• 31:56
  the right person.
• 31:57
  We value clarity and directness shows how you think,
• 32:00
  not just where you've worked.
• 32:04
  wow i do okay i do like show us how you think i think that is
• 32:09
  actually really
• 32:09
  important and i've said that before how do you differentiate
• 32:13
  yourself right when
• 32:14
  everyone's sending in very similar resumes so i like that don't
• 32:19
  love sending a
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_00: video of yourself into the void um
• 32:25
  they don't talk about like timelines when you'll hear back from
• 32:29
  them next what the
• 32:30
  next steps look like or anything like that um i've kind of like
• 32:36
  i kind of want us
• 32:37
  to write an ai gener generated script applying and then one of
• 32:43
  us probably you
• 32:45
  let's be honest sends in the video and applies for the role to
• 32:49
  see if you get
• 32:50
  a callback for a callback like it's an audition because that's
• 32:54
  what it feels like
• 32:55
  it's an audition uh for this uh that would just be fascinating
• 33:00
  fascinating to see
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_00: yeah what are your thoughts on that
• 33:03
  Well,
• 33:03
  we've,
• 33:06
  we've,
• 33:06
  we've talked about this before a little bit too,
• 33:08
  right?
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_01: About how,
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_01: about how it is,
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_01: it's very easy to introduce bias,
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_01: subconscious bias into the hiring process.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_01: And for me,
• 33:18
  like telling the candidate to send in a video in their first
• 33:24
  kind of round,
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_01: that seems to me to be like a,
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_01: just a bias magnet.
• 33:30
  You're going to introduce so much bias just by the very nature
• 33:33
  of having a video be
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_01: a part of that.
• 33:37
  And I'm sure that the people who are reviewing these are going
• 33:39
  to watch the video
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_01: before reading anything that you've written.
• 33:43
  So you're starting with the bias rather than starting with how
• 33:47
  the person thinks.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_01: That doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_00: And no accommodation, no anything like that.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I agree.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_00: I really like a good old fashioned phone screen for, for people.
• 34:02
  And I know you can't like this,
• 34:06
  this is asking them to the first step is a video.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's, that's wild to me, but I agree.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_00: I think that we're, we're human.
• 34:16
  You're going to make up your mind the moment you press play and
• 34:19
  it's going to
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_00: depend on what the person looks like.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's going to depend on their gender, whether or not they have an accent.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_00: There are so many things that come into play.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, it's, but it doesn't surprise me.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_00: That sounds like on the nose for this company.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_01: So folks, we are going to take a very brief intermission.
• 34:45
  Jen and I are both going to read the job ad through and through
• 34:48
  ourselves,
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_01: and then we're going to come back with our scores.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_01: So hang on to the seat of your pants.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_01: And we are back.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_01: That means it is time to score this damn thing.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, Jen, what did you think?
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_01: Score out of 10.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_00: I'm giving this job posting a zero out of 10.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's the lowest rating I've ever scored.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_00: If I could give it like minus something points, I would heinous.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_00: This is
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_00: heinous.
• 35:35
  It's a crime against humanity and I won't have it and I will do
• 35:40
  nothing about it but complain.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_01: Tell us why.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_01: Tell us why.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_01: Zero out of ten.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_01: That's pretty extreme.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there is not a shred of humanity in this job posting.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_00: So you shared with me kind of the things that stood out to you.
• 35:59
  And then,
• 35:59
  like you mentioned,
• 36:01
  I finally got to see it and read through it.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I can't even believe that something like this is real.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's so bad.
• 36:10
  One of the lines that stood out to me was,
• 36:13
  this role is intentionally broad and demanding.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_00: You'll learn more in one year than most people do in five.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_00: And they're writing it as though they're doing you a favor.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_00: No, this is on purpose.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_00: This is intentional.
• 36:27
  You're doing all of these things,
• 36:30
  working wild hours and everything,
• 36:32
  because this is for you.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_00: This is a learning opportunity for you.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like bullshit.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_00: Are you kidding me?
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_00: So not buying it.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not picking up what they're putting down.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_00: And then you'll learn more in one year here than most people do in five.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_00: But how?
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_00: By doing?
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_00: By failing?
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_00: Truly, there's not a shred of humanity in this job posting.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_00: There's another part that says, high EQ, low ego.
• 37:03
  But then when you read the role and what's expected,
• 37:05
  that's not possible.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_00: You need someone who is like egotistical maniac to do this role.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_00: So to say that you need to have like a high emotional intelligence,
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_00: but low ego,
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_00: and then do all the things you're asking a person to do.
• 37:22
  That's who I would like to know who lands this role,
• 37:27
  who they choose because
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's just not, it's just not possible.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_00: And they say this role is not for everyone.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_00: We'd rather be upfront about that.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_00: That's great.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_00: They say they move fast, work is intense.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_00: And then they say closer to eight to seven, then nine to five.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_00: Close to 8 to 7, then 9 to 5.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like they're talking about the hours worked.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_00: It's not going to be 8 to 7 either.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_00: The clock isn't just going to magically stop at 7 p.m.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's going to be 24-7.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_00: And at what cost?
• 38:02
  Again,
• 38:02
  they're not even listing the things that they're doing in order
• 38:04
  to support that.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_00: It would be one thing if they were like...
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_00: this is hard.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_00: We're not going to bullshit you.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_00: This is going to be really tough job.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's very much a specific person who can thrive in this environment.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_00: And we're going to do everything we can to help you thrive.
• 38:19
  You are going to have this support and this is the pay and
• 38:22
  these are the benefits
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_00: and blah,
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_00: blah,
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_00: blah,
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_00: blah,
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_00: blah.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_00: But it doesn't even have any of that.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_00: So they're just basically saying like,
• 38:29
  hand over your life to us and you're lucky because you get
• 38:33
  access to the founder.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_00: many are learning.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_00: So you should be grateful.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
• 38:41
  that's why it gets that and so many more reasons is why it gets
• 38:46
  a zero to 10 from
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_00: from this gal.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_01: I was I was more generous with this much, much, much more generous.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_00: What was redeeming to you?
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_00: Sorry.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_01: So I scored this a six out of 10.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_01: Oh,
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_01: And the reason that I scored this a 6 out of 10 was that the...
• 39:14
  So this is a case of the job ad and the job being fundamentally
• 39:19
  different things.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_01: And the job ad, I scored a 6 out of 10.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_01: The job I would score like a minus 5 billion.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, okay.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_00: Fair.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my god.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_01: But the job ad itself, I like the way that they organized this.
• 39:34
  There was more kind of honest description of what it would be
• 39:40
  like in this job ad
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_01: than I think any that we've looked at so far.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_01: There was a whole lot of honesty in this.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_01: I think they were still obscuring a few things,
• 39:52
  but there was a lot more honesty about the nature of this work
• 39:55
  than in other ads.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_01: I thought that was great.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_01: It was easy to read through structurally,
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_01: like the way that they broke the job ad down was good.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_01: I like that.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_01: They were very clear that this wasn't going to be for everyone.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_01: And they talked a little bit about,
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_01: so where you took,
• 40:15
  you'll learn more in a year here than you would in a century
• 40:20
  somewhere else.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_01: For you, that read is very negative.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_01: For me, I kind of read that as a positive.
• 40:26
  Because it does to me say that this environment is very
• 40:31
  fast-paced and dynamic,
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_01: as much as we hate those words.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_01: But it does mean that you'll be kind of fresher cooked.
• 40:39
  and you'll be you'll be forced to learn very very quickly
• 40:43
  you'll be forced to make
• 40:44
  decisions and you'll be forced to hoover up knowledge or else
• 40:48
  you'll you'll fail
• 40:49
  permanently and kind of like flame out so some people that's
• 40:53
  great for some people
• 40:55
  absolutely fantastic and them saying going into it like this is
• 40:59
  what it's going to
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_01: be
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I kind of gave them credit for that.
• 41:03
  Now,
• 41:03
  there was a bunch of stuff I didn't like about this,
• 41:05
  a ton of stuff I didn't like.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_01: They didn't talk about Calm at all.
• 41:10
  And you also brought up that they mentioned this was going to
• 41:14
  be an eight to seven
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_01: kind of job,
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_01: not a nine to five.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_01: Eight to seven is BS.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_01: This will be a nine, nine, six.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_01: This will be nine to nine, six days a week.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_01: Like,
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_01: it was Calm and then a lot of tech companies in China,
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_01: and they've been heavily criticized for,
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_01: this is going to be that.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_01: It'll be a nine, nine, six.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_00: Just say that.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you're honest with everything else.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_00: So just say that too.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_01: No set hours.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_01: You're going to work a ton.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_01: It'll be a hundred hours a week, blah, blah, blah.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_01: You probably can't say that even in New York,
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_01: that it's going to be a hundred hours a week,
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_01: but it's what it is.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_00: So it'll be worth it.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_00: It'll be worth it.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_00: And here's how.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_01: And the here's how part, especially in New York finance is the comp.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_01: They didn't list comp.
• 41:54
  They didn't tell you what you would be making on base or what
• 41:57
  the incentive based
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_01: stuff,
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_01: the performance based stuff would look like.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_01: And sure, there's time for that later, of course.
• 42:05
  But why would I even put in the effort to apply for this job if
• 42:09
  I don't have a
• 42:10
  sense of what it's going to be like 11 to 50 people that kind
• 42:14
  of suggest that the
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_01: base is going to be on the low end.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_01: And this job, the way it was written.
• 42:20
  i'm not even giving it a second thought unless i'm making at
• 42:22
  least 400 us a year to
• 42:24
  do this that would be my number to even consider this job so if
• 42:28
  you're not in that
• 42:29
  ballpark you're not getting me and i would probably be able to
• 42:32
  do this job really
• 42:32
  well yeah well paul you're a generous king because i just
• 42:39
  cannot i can't i get what
• 42:41
  you're saying though and i totally appreciate the
• 42:43
  differentiation between job
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_00: design and the job posting
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_00: um and obviously i'm like combining mixing the two um but i think for me
• 42:55
  that's just how i'm going to read them right it is about that
• 42:58
  for for me and i
• 43:00
  appreciate that it's a little bit of a different read for you
• 43:02
  um but fascinating
• 43:05
  again thank you to uh ryan who sent it in is that the name yes
• 43:12
  yep absolutely ryan
• 43:13
  sent this in ryan man you are a uh you are godhead we
• 43:16
  appreciate that you sent this
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_01: to it because it was crazy
• 43:19
  oh such a good one that was such a gift i really really
• 43:23
  appreciate this one yeah so
• 43:26
  that's it for this one i think we can uh consider this roasted
• 43:30
  jen gave a zero out
• 43:31
  of ten i gave a six out of ten oh boy let the comment section
• 43:35
  just open up on this
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_01: one we'll see you next week folks
• 43:39
  Glad you could spend some time with us on Roast the Post,
• 43:42
  the story behind the bullet points.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_00: If today's episode helped you make sense of the hiring landscape,
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_00: or at least feel less alone in navigating it,
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_00: don't forget to subscribe.
• 43:51
  You can find us on YouTube or follow the show on whatever
• 43:54
  podcast app you trust
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_00: with your sanity.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_00: We're always looking for interesting job postings to break down.
• 43:59
  So if you've got one,
• 44:00
  whether it's surprisingly good or impressively confusing,
• 44:04
  send it in.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_00: Listener submissions keep things spicy.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_00: Follow that link in the show notes for more.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks again for listening.
• 44:11
  Catch us next time when we take on another posting that
• 44:13
  definitely has something to say.