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Thomas Was Alone · The Long and Short of It

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Thanks for checking out the long and short of it podcast.
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You can find us in all good podcast platforms.
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Please consider following or subscribing.
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We hope you enjoy the show. Hello and welcome to the Long
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and short of It, the podcast where we discuss each of the
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games on the Metacritic Top 100 list.
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My name is Lawrence and I'm joined by This is Dan.
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Welcome to the podcast. Hello, welcome back.
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Here we are once again. At the turn of the tides, which
0:32
I don't know what that means, but I know Gandalf said it in
0:34
The Two Towers. So there you go, that's movie
0:37
reference for you. How are you today?
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I'm all right. I'm.
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Yeah, back on the play days bus. Back on the play days bus and
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which stop are you getting off at today?
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Piggy patch. Piggy patch stop.
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Okay. I think I'll probably go to the
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Y Bird stop for anyone that isn't in there.
0:58
Early to mid 30s that grew up in the UK probably doesn't have any
1:01
idea what that what we're going on about.
1:03
So there you go, you can go away and look up what Peggy Patch is
1:07
on the patch stop. But yes, you say you're well.
1:12
Are you? I'm all right, yeah.
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Well, that's fantastic news. How are you?
1:18
Yes, quite Well, I'm back to work.
1:22
Yes, back to work. Still going to the gym, which is
1:25
good. And I've finally, after 31
1:28
years, managed to get into football, so I've been enjoying
1:32
watching some football games, which has been quite nice.
1:34
So do you think it will last? I think so, yeah.
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I'm really enjoying it. I've, I've spent the last kind
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of year or so watching a few videos on YouTube of like
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football analysis and stuff, and I think I've finally broken the
1:46
back of actually being able to watch football games.
1:49
So yeah, that's new. So yeah.
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There you go. I can talk to you about the
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offside rule. Yeah, please don't.
1:59
Okay, I will not. I'll hold.
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But there is one thing I can talk to you about and that's
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today's game. Did you like that little lead is
2:08
there? That's good.
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That was. Congratulations on the link.
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Thank you. Very smooth like jazz.
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Well, the set game we're going to be talking about today.
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We're going to be talking about a game called Thomas Was Alone.
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Now Thomas Was Alone was released in June 2012,
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originally on the PC by a indie developer called Mike Bethel.
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So it's originally scored 77 when it came out on the PC in
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2012. However, in the subsequent 11
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years since its original release, it's come out on
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various other consoles and the scores across the board there.
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We've got an 80 on the PS3 and it even got 88 on iOS, so it's,
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you know, it's pretty well received at the time.
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It's an indie game and the new feature that we're kind of
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putting in at the start of these new format episodes is kind of
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what the critics were talking about at the time.
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So I've got 2 here, the one of the higher reviews and then the
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lowest one in terms of meta scores.
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The top one reads Thomas Was Alone.
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So that was a story that's more complex than games, than games,
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orders of magnitude more expensive and difficult to
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develop. It's also a triumph of
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narratives, ability to convincingly superimpose human
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qualities onto nonhuman objects. Telling the audience what's what
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or who's what and letting the imagination take over it proves
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that you don't need 10s of millions of dollars and hundreds
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of staff to make a game worth telling.
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Just a good hook and engaging vision and a whole lot of heart.
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And that was written by Destructoid, who gave the game a
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90. And on the other side of the
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penny, we've got a review by PC Power Play, and it's just a
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single sentence. So good.
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What's a load of? What's a load of PC power play?
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Their review reads. An enjoyable puzzle platformer
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wrapped in Boundless Charm, and they gave the game a 60, so
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there's a 30 points difference there.
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Yeah, that little snippet didn't really match the score that they
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gave to me, but. No, no, quite.
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So firstly, have you got any background with this game or did
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you know anything about this game prior to playing it?
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I'd heard the name. I've also heard the name of the
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developer, possibly from Was he in the indie film?
4:46
Mike Bethel. Oh, the one that had Phil
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fishing from Fez? I don't think so.
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No, because that was his name. Fez and Super Meat Boy, wasn't
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it? Yeah, I think I've played some
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other games by him. There's a game I can't subspace
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something or other. And it's yeah, it was all right
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as well. He's made a few I've got.
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Oh, subsurface circular. Yeah, that's the one.
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I think it's about a metro and people on the metro.
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It looks like there's it looks like there was a follow up to
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that game called Quarantine Circular as well.
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But yeah, Bithel Games has released 9/11 games since their
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first one, with their first being Thomas Was Alone.
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Yeah, so other than developer name and the name of the game,
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and knowing the visual style of this game, not much really.
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I didn't know what it was about. I thought the narrative was
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going to be quite different from what it was.
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But yeah, didn't know much about this.
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I know that obviously, being your choice of game, you do have
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a history with it. Yeah, it's.
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I first came across this. Game I think probably in 2012 or
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2013. It was when I used to watch when
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he used to upload quite a lot of videos onto YouTube but he did
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like little game reviews or little small lets plays Nerd
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Cubed did a video on Thomas Was Alone and I really like the look
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of it. He plays like the 1st 20 minutes
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of the game perhaps, and I was really drawn in by the narrative
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and the narration of the game. And also it's charm, because I
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think this is quite a charming game.
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So from watching that video back eleven years ago or whenever it
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was, I then went on to actually get the game, I think originally
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on PS3, maybe even on Steam, perhaps on one of my old laptops
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maybe. And I've played through this
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game about this is probably my third time so.
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I've played through it a few times.
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I've never played another Mike Biffle game.
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This was my first one. But yeah, it's a very strange
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game in terms of what it is and what it does, and it's quite
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hard to sum it up. It's a puzzle platformer at the
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end of the day, but with more of a story than a normal puzzle
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platformer would have, I guess. But what version did you play
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for this run? Even played it on the Switch.
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I started off as recommended by you, playing it with headphones
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in, and removed the headphones and kind of played it in the
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background as I went along. It's not a very long game, but
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yeah, it's a good place to play it.
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It is an ideal place to play it, and I'm pretty sure I might even
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have a version of this game on the Vita.
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Which goes to show how old this game is being.
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You know, one of the first handhold places you could get it
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was on the PS Vita, which kind of died of death, didn't it?
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Really. But I play ironic considering
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the name. I know, right?
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I think it's a shame. I really like the Vita, and I've
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played a couple of games that we've done for the podcast on
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the Vita. But yeah, it's just a shame it
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never really got more support from.
8:28
Sony from Sony, yeah. But yeah, I played this game on
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the PS4, which is, well, on my PS5, but the PS4 version, which
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is where I've played it previously.
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And I personally, I didn't get it on Switch because I've
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already got like two or three copies of it.
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So I didn't see the point in showing out more money.
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But this is the perfect game for Switch in my opinion, similar to
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Tetris, it's it's just made for handheld in my opinion.
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So do you want to talk about the narrative of this game?
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What's the story? Morning Glory, Yeah, basically.
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This is a puzzle platformer, More of a platformer, really.
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And there's a voiceover that kind of assigns characters and
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meaning and narrative to what's going on on the screen.
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Now, the game would still function perfectly well without
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that voiceover, but part of what this game is, is that voiceover.
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So the squares, the narrative that's been assigned to the
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squares on the screen is that they are AI, their artificial
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intelligences that are, I don't know if they're finding their
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way out of something or, but you've got different characters,
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each with their own traits, each with their own personalities,
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and they're all trying to move through levels.
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And ultimately there's something about some fog or something.
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And yeah, I didn't really follow that closely with the
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overarching stuff. I think the strength of this
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game is not in that side of the narrative, but it's in the
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dialogue and it's in the the moment to moment with the
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characters. That's where the strengths and
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the charm of this game are. Then the plot outside of that is
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quite, I'd say, simplistic. Yeah, it's about these little
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shapes that are trying to effectively get like what's the
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word? They're trying to break out of
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their their own little world and become more real, I suppose.
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But yeah, the story, the story isn't where the game excels,
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it's the narration and the character development that comes
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with this game. So like you say, this is a
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platformer and you play as I think it's 8-7 or eight
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different little shapes, so. Each of the shapes, So you've
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got like a little rectangle, then you've got a little square,
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then you've got a big square, then you've got like a very tall
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thin rectangle. And each of these shapes becomes
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a character. And each of these shapes has a
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name. So the the name of the game
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obviously is Thomas was Alone. And the first character that you
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play as, which is a little small rectangle, is called Thomas.
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And as the game progresses, you've got narration.
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Done by a British voice act called Danny Wallace.
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Who? Do you know what else he's done?
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I did read about him. I've forgotten now, but I
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remember one thing that he'd done since that was quite big.
12:03
Do you remember when Assassin's Creed Two came out and there was
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that character in Assassin's Creed Two that was with In Light
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in the modern day sections and everyone thought it was?
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Yes, yes. It's him.
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He's the British kind of snarky guy in Assassin's Creed Two.
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But Danny Wallace narrates this game and it's really talking
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about the inner thoughts and the inner dialogue and monologue of
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each of the characters as they they go through.
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And a lot of this game, a lot of what I enjoy about this game is
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it's charm and is the fact that you're just playing as these
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little. Tiny shapes, like no bigger than
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what you play as the Tetronomos and Tetris, but it gives them a
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real character and a real arc and there are some really lovely
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quotes in this game that really stand out to me.
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But. As you go through the game, you
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pick up more characters and each character has a different
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ability. So Thomas, who is your first
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character, is a relatively decent jumper.
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He can he can jump quite far and the narration kind of sticks
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around Thomas mostly, who is like a happy go lucky person I
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suppose, who is afraid of being alone.
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And then the next character you meet is a little kind of stumpy
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square called Chris Who. Finds himself incredibly
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irritated by the other shapes around him, but he can't jump
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very far or high, so he needs the help of other shapes to get
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to his destination, and each stage and each level is
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effectively getting from one side of the screen to the other.
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To fit in your like shapes box I suppose to to yeah.
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To reach the goal, and I mean that's really the game play in
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the story. It is very, very basic.
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And that kind of sums up what you do in this game as well,
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don't you? It's effectively getting from
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one side of the screen to the other, yeah?
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It's, you know, it's a funny one, because I often go on about
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how I like games to have a good story and a good hook, and this
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game doesn't have too much of A story.
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But what it does have is a lot of character development and a
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lot of. Emphasis on building the
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character arcs, which I think is really lovely, and I mean as we
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move on to gameplay as King. Like we said, this is a very
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basic game, but do you think this game is fun to play?
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It's all right. It's quite simplistic and I feel
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like the arc of challenge is up and down and it's weird.
14:54
It's the pacing's a bit off. Some levels will be really easy
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and then you'll have some tougher ones and they'll be back
15:01
to easy and then it doesn't feel like a game that I go back to,
15:08
not in terms of. So speaking about Celeste,
15:13
Celeste has that wonderful difficulty curve all the way to
15:18
the end, and this isn't that, and it just kind of peaks and
15:23
troughs. And I think because of that it
15:26
gets quite repetitive fast. So I couldn't play this in long
15:31
bursts. It was just too, it felt like
15:35
doing too much of the same. But yeah, in short bursts, I
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think you can probably get some fun out of it.
15:42
I think the problem that the fundamental problem with this
15:44
game is that it's so simple that in terms of the game play
15:47
itself, it's probably been done several times better in other
15:51
places. Yeah, I think that's fair.
15:55
I think that's fair. This isn't a game that's
15:59
reinventing the wheel. This is very much a first
16:03
attempt at an indie platformer from a very small developer.
16:09
And personally, I think that when they made this game, they
16:12
knocked out of the park. I don't think they're really
16:14
going for anything major, but I think this is.
16:18
This is one of the yeah. The caveat with this game is, is
16:20
the fact that it was released in 2010, the fact that it had a
16:25
very small budget, the fact that it started off as a is it Java
16:31
game or something? I think so, yeah.
16:34
And then they turned it into a full, he turned it into a full
16:37
game. So it's that context.
16:41
And as with games that came out of that time or a similar time
16:45
or earlier indie games, then they felt a bit there was a
16:50
novelty to them and a lot of the best remembered indie games are
16:54
from that era. They felt very fresh and they
16:58
were doing things that were different from AAA A and B
17:02
games. They were something different
17:05
and certainly games like Journey, similar time period and
17:12
very, very memorable and did a lot.
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So yeah, I think that context is important here.
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It's not a game that was released in 2023 and and quite
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honestly, I don't think it would.
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We we are that. There are so many indie games
17:29
now. There are so many games released
17:30
on Steam every week. I think this game would probably
17:34
flounder if it was released now. I think it would just get lost,
17:38
yeah. But yeah.
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Yeah, I agree. Timing is everything.
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And this did come out in a time where.
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You know, like we said at the start, there was an indie indie
17:49
game. The movie wasn't there, in which
17:51
it had a big focus on Fez, which is another that's playing Fez.
17:59
Have you played it before? Never.
18:01
You've never played it? No.
18:02
It looks intriguing to me. So you can put that on your next
18:05
list of 15. It's it's frustrating and it's
18:09
difficult. I've never completed it, but it
18:12
is a cool game and it's got a very cool concept to it.
18:15
I think I think you'd like it but I think it would also make
18:17
you say swear words as it as it does with me.
18:21
But yeah, it's it's a shame that Phil Fish turned out to be a
18:25
massive knob. But you know it's it's kind of
18:30
robbed the the gaming community of of more games from him
18:33
because as much of his personality as Paul, his game,
18:36
well gamer was, you know fantastic.
18:42
So yeah, fun to play in short bursts.
18:46
We do usually ask a question. Do you have a favorite movie or
18:48
favorite thing that you can do? Yeah, this game is jumping,
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isn't it? So that's the question.
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It wasn't the better question to ask.
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Which character did you like using most?
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Because certain characters solve very differently from others.
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We we noted that each character has their own different style,
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so Thomas is the average one. Chris can do very short little
19:15
jumps. John can jump very high because
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he's very tall, thin, rectangle. Claire can't really jump very
19:22
well, but can float on water. You know that there's quite a
19:24
lot of different characters with different abilities.
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So which was your favorite to use?
19:28
Easy win for me, Sarah, with the double jump.
19:32
Yes. So Sarah is a little purple.
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Rectangle that comes in just towards the end of the game,
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isn't she? I think she's the last one that
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you pick up. You've got the the team that
19:43
that comes in after her, Yeah, team of like 5 little squares.
19:48
Oh, yes, of course. Yeah.
19:49
Yeah. Yeah.
19:51
So, yeah, I think that's that's a good show.
19:54
I mean for me it would probably be John.
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So John is the third little character that you pick up and
20:02
he? He can jump really high, but the
20:06
double jump is incredibly helpful.
20:08
And the thing with Sarah is that she thinks she's a lot better
20:12
than everyone else because no one can do what she can do.
20:14
But I think the big point of this game is that, you know, no
20:18
matter how good you are at one thing or two things or a few
20:21
things, yeah, everyone has a place and everyone has to help
20:25
each other. You can't get to where you need
20:28
to be without the help of someone else, which I think is a
20:33
really nice little message. You know, you can be great at
20:36
one thing, Sarah's great at double jumping, John's good at
20:39
jumping really high, but without the others you're not going to
20:43
get anywhere. And that there's like there's a
20:46
quote in this game because I think what what this game or
20:50
what the narration does so well is that it really humanizes
20:57
these little shapes. And one of my favorite
21:00
characters, not in terms of did you have a favorite character in
21:04
terms of their personality? I suppose not.
21:08
Really, I think Chris was quite entertaining and his arc is
21:13
quite funny and obviously he has a bit of a redemption yes story.
21:18
And yeah, that's quite sweet. And I think because of that I
21:23
quite like Claire. She's a hero superhero.
21:29
There's some good stuff in there and those two jump out at me.
21:34
I think John's was a bit obnoxious.
21:35
He thought it was better than everyone else until he met
21:38
Sarah, who could jump higher than him.
21:40
So I agree. And there's a few really nice
21:43
lines in this game. And one of them is Claire is the
21:48
third character that you pick up and she's this big bulky square
21:51
who you find out like Mr. Blobby.
21:53
Like Mr. Blobby. Yeah, that's right, Mrs. Blobby,
21:56
because her name's Claire. Perhaps we can give it a lot to
21:59
Mrs. Blobby today, but Claire's ability, she finds out she can
22:06
float on water, and water is deadly to all of the other
22:10
shapes in the game. And she that for dubs herself as
22:15
a superhero and her whole personality is she's a hero.
22:19
So she has to act like a hero and do things that heroes would
22:22
do and always help the others. And there's a really nice line
22:27
when it's just John sorry, when it's just Thomas, Claire and I
22:33
think Chris and it reads they were doing really well.
22:38
Claire hoped she could get them all across the water.
22:41
John was fully aware he could have done this alone.
22:43
Thomas hoped he'd never have to. And there's just lines like that
22:48
kind of spiked through the game where I just listened to them.
22:53
And it's a bit of like a like, that's nice.
22:56
I like stuff like that. And I think this is the big
23:02
reason why I like this game, because I've said a million
23:05
times in this podcast that for me, a good story will usually
23:12
trump good game play for me. And although the story isn't
23:15
strong in this game, the character development and the
23:17
character writing I think is sublime.
23:21
Because I think you can break that down further because a good
23:24
story, I mean lots of things make a good story and you can
23:28
fine tune that and say, well, this particular about a story is
23:31
what you like or yeah. And I think you've said before
23:34
that you like characterization. So it could be that there.
23:39
Yeah, absolutely. And you know, like this is very,
23:45
I think this is very British, you know what I mean?
23:48
Like the writing and the humor is.
23:52
Yeah, so the dialogue, the writing, the delivery of the
23:58
dialogue, which is very good, couldn't fault.
24:02
It is reminiscent of The Stanley Parable or Portal Two.
24:09
Yeah, yeah, there's something. Or even games like Dearest or
24:17
Everybody's Gone to the Rapture. So there's something
24:21
quintessentially British about it Very You remember as well
24:26
another game that we played with Stephen Fry providing the
24:30
voiceover. Do you remember that game from
24:32
early on in the podcast? Which was that?
24:39
What's it called? The one with sack Boy?
24:41
Little Big planet. Oh, little big planet.
24:42
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's very British game as
24:46
well. Yeah, and and I sometimes wonder
24:51
how those, those elements of games come across to people from
24:57
other countries. I don't know.
25:00
That's a genuine question and wonderment because.
25:05
To us is so, so yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
25:10
And I mean like you can you can look at the writing here, which
25:15
is where it's the second stage. So Chris has just been
25:18
introduced as Chris is the second character and he's the
25:21
the Moody, miserable one that can't really do much.
25:24
And it reads, Chris stared at Thomas with pure hatred.
25:27
He seems so very happy at their situation.
25:30
Friends together, a brave fellowship of quadrilaterals on
25:33
a quest for greatness. That would be fine, but it was
25:36
all the obvious observations that Thomas was doing which
25:40
grated on Chris. Every time I saw something
25:42
vaguely new, Chris would hear a satisfied little from the
25:46
vaulting idiot. He hoped the next portal would
25:49
spit them up, if only for a few levels.
25:51
It's stuff like that, that. It just feels like that.
25:55
That really snarky British humor, you know what I mean?
26:00
Which, yeah, I just wanted to shout out the writing and also
26:02
the delivery of Danny Wallace in this game.
26:04
I think she does a really good job.
26:08
So if you want to talk a little bit about the visuals in the
26:09
audio. Yeah, I mean, it's squares
26:16
against the background. It's very simple.
26:18
Yeah. It doesn't do much for me, but
26:25
it's also not offensive basic. Yeah.
26:30
And and it's not going to, It's not like some games that you
26:36
look at now that are very, very old and you think, wow, that has
26:40
aged very, very well because of that art style that it's got.
26:44
Yeah, it's not like that. But at the same time, it's not
26:47
old. This is aged terribly because
26:48
they try to be realistic and graphics have improved.
26:54
It's just a sort of weird simple in between, yes.
27:00
And what do you think of the the music?
27:02
Obviously we we've already spoken about the narration and
27:04
the voice acting, which I think we both agree is, you know,
27:07
pretty, pretty damn good. Yeah, it's it's alright.
27:12
Nothing really too memorable there.
27:14
But yeah, it's alright. I quite like the music.
27:17
I don't often listen to game music outside of, you know,
27:20
playing the games themselves. But this is music that I could
27:23
probably fall asleep to. It isn't, you know, music that I
27:28
could listen to while I read or while I do work, but I could
27:31
probably fall asleep to this music.
27:32
It's very relaxing, I find. Yeah.
27:36
So you've used, you've used a word a couple of times in this
27:40
episode. Yeah.
27:42
And I'm wondering if that would be your word to describe this
27:45
game, because we now have the question of describe this game
27:48
in one word. What word would you use?
27:50
Yeah, yeah. I'd not really thought about it
27:52
before, but yeah, that is the word I'd use and.
27:56
So the word simple probably has many negative connotations.
28:02
Simple minded it can, but it can also be a good thing because of
28:08
the simplicity of the game play. The voice work really stands out
28:13
and it does have personality and it's memorable because of that.
28:18
So yeah, it's simple and it's all the stuff that comes with
28:23
that. Yeah.
28:25
The word I would use is I find this game to be quite
28:29
effortless. It's very, this is the goal.
28:35
You know what you've got to do, go and do this and that's it.
28:40
It isn't complicated. It isn't trying to reinvent the
28:43
wheel. Like I said earlier, it is just
28:44
like an effortless game, which to be fair, you could probably
28:47
say that effortless is another version of saying it's simple.
28:51
You know, I think this is a very basic game and you know it isn't
28:55
winning game of the. Yeah, I think the word basic is
28:57
a bit more negative than yeah, I think another word that that you
29:03
used would be a good way to describe this game, which you
29:06
mentioned that the the graphics weren't offensive and that's
29:10
another word I'd use to describe this game.
29:12
I find this game to be very inoffensive.
29:14
Yeah, that that almost sums up my opinion on the game, but I
29:17
think we can wrap up the episode there.
29:19
Yeah, it just exists, which is fair enough.
29:25
The question of the week, We usually ask a specific question
29:27
about what we would like to see if a game like this came out
29:30
again or XY Zed, reasons of what do we think the industry could
29:37
do, blah blah blah. The question of the week this
29:39
week is why do you think I selected this game?
29:43
Because to be honest with you, I'm not.
29:45
I don't know if I can answer that question myself and I'm
29:47
interested to get your thoughts. Well, you looking at your side
29:53
of the list, I mentioned to you last week, we kind of have a bit
29:56
of a conflap, a bit of a debrief at the end of the episode.
29:59
Once we've finished recording, we'll comment on how we think
30:02
the episode's gone. And sometimes it's oh, I thought
30:06
that was a really good episode with lots of good conversations.
30:09
Sometimes it's, oh, couldn't get into that.
30:11
Glad it's done different for every episode, different for
30:14
every game. And one of the things we talked
30:17
about was that you've got. A lot of side scrolling 2D games
30:23
on your on your side of the the 15 games and and I think it's a
30:30
bit surprising probably. Well for me and also probably
30:35
for the listener in the I don't know, I wouldn't have thought
30:39
you'd pick that many based again on on probably some of your
30:44
comments throughout the podcast. But you obviously do have a
30:47
liking for these games, which is fine.
30:48
Nothing wrong with that. It's obviously another side to
30:51
your gaming tastes that we've maybe not seen as much.
30:55
So I'm not surprised that you picked a side scroller given the
31:00
number of side scrollers on your side of the list.
31:06
I think you picked a game that you had a good time with and I
31:12
don't necessarily think there's anything wrong with that and I
31:17
think. I said it about a protocol.
31:21
It was a game that I had a good time with the first time I
31:23
played it, and I had a blast playing it this time as well.
31:26
And I'd be lying if I said that my side of the list wasn't
31:31
partially made-up of games that I simply want to play and talk
31:36
about on the podcast. There's definitely an element of
31:39
that, and I think that's a lot of my games as well on the list,
31:42
isn't it? It's not games that I
31:43
particularly think are amazing, but they're just ones that I
31:46
want to talk about or I want you to experience.
31:49
Yeah, and I almost think your reason for putting it on your
31:53
list is maybe as simple as the game itself.
31:57
And I just, I think it'll be quite straightforward.
31:59
And yeah, I don't know what your answer to that would be.
32:03
No, I don't know either. I probably agree with you.
32:06
I think it's a simple answer. It's just a game that I enjoy
32:09
and it stands out against other games that I've played as
32:13
something a bit different and, like I say, quite charming.
32:17
Well, let's delve a bit deeper then.
32:19
So when you first played this game, what about it resonated
32:26
with you? Something must have clicked and
32:30
made you think, wow, that was that was a really fun, nice
32:33
little game, I think. I think it could potentially
32:37
come back to our conversation that we had regarding Celeste
32:41
and funny, funny that you mentioned Celeste earlier.
32:45
I thought of Celeste playing this game and yeah, a lot of
32:52
games like this, I end up coming back to Celeste.
32:54
I really, really like Celeste and I think probably more than I
33:01
realized and I've had a blast playing it both times I've
33:04
played it and I just think it does so much right and I'm
33:08
probably. Being a bit uncharitable,
33:11
comparing a lot of games to Celeste, but yeah, it's a hard
33:15
game to compare to. And I think, like we talked in
33:19
the Celeste episode about more personal topics like mental
33:24
health and how that game brings it into not into the light.
33:29
Because obviously everyone knows that there's a mental health
33:35
issue and epidemic in in the world, particularly among
33:38
people, you know, particularly among people ages between like
33:42
10 and 40 or 50, you know, And there's just something about
33:48
this game that reminds me of Celeste.
33:50
And I think when I played Celeste for the podcast for the
33:52
first time, it made me think of this game.
33:55
I think it, I think it does come back to, you know, like the
34:00
quote that I shared, John John knew that he could do this
34:03
alone. Thomas hoped that he'd never
34:05
have to, and this game has a very big emphasis on using the
34:11
people around you to help you get to where you need to be.
34:15
Or you can do things on your own sometimes, but other times you
34:19
do need the support of someone. And I think that this game, even
34:23
if you don't always see it or it isn't obvious, it does have
34:28
quite a nice message as to, yeah, things can be tough when
34:32
you're on your own and it can be a little bit scary.
34:34
But with people around you that you can rely on, even if they
34:37
are snarky and even if they are a little bit British and Aussie,
34:41
sometimes you do need those people and they will be there
34:46
for you if you you need them, if that makes sense.
34:51
And yeah, you know, I don't think much gets talked about in
34:54
this game in terms of, you know, having a conversation about
34:58
mental health or whatever. But I think that this game does
35:00
have quite a nice and important message and I think that's
35:04
something that I I enjoy in a game is when it has a message
35:08
and when it has a a moral, something to take away from it.
35:13
And I think this game has that. Again, not perfect and it isn't
35:18
perfectly done, neither was Celeste, but it it makes me
35:22
think, I think is the is the crux of it, you know?
35:26
Yeah, which wasn't something, yeah.
35:29
Which wasn't something I was expecting to explore.
35:32
And I think talking about it there is kind of like me talking
35:37
it through in my own head. I hadn't really thought about
35:39
that before, but when I actually drill into it, that is probably
35:44
a big element of why I like this game, because it touches on
35:47
things that not many other games do, which I like.
35:51
I think it's interesting replaying these games for the
35:55
podcast because. Not only is it a replay of a
35:59
game that you've played before, probably at different times in
36:02
your life, and it may resonate differently, but it's also
36:07
shining a bit of a different light in that you're not just
36:10
playing it for you, you're very aware of the other person in
36:14
that equation. And again, there are certain
36:20
games that I want you to experience and there are certain
36:25
games that I was probably. Are purely there for me.
36:29
Yeah, of course. It's it's a real mix and it's an
36:35
interesting thing kind of opening yourself up like that
36:37
and I said last week and I and I hope this is not the case.
36:42
I said we're probably going to even though I do think there's a
36:44
there's a fairly big overlap in the games that we like in the
36:47
games that we love. Maybe there's not such such a
36:49
big overlap And I I I worried and I like I say, I hope this is
36:54
not the case that. We're going to go through and be
36:59
disinterested or not like or worse each other's games.
37:03
And I do think we're going to breakthrough soon and find some
37:06
games that we do both really enjoy.
37:08
But yeah, it's I think at the same time it reveals something
37:15
about your personality, doesn't it?
37:16
And there's nothing wrong with that.
37:17
And I think we need to move past this thing with games that.
37:23
They're so deeply tied with your identity that you can't stand to
37:27
be changed on them. Yeah, absolutely.
37:30
Like, it's it's very obvious that the biggest game in my list
37:37
and I know is going to, I think probably going to be a very long
37:41
episode is damn. Cuphead.
37:47
Cuphead. That's right, because it's the
37:49
deepest game. Noah's House Party Noah's House
37:51
Party with Mr. Blobby. But it's Final Fantasy 7, and
37:57
it's I almost meme on myself at this point of how many times
38:01
I've mentioned that game in I. Think it's almost as much as
38:04
we've mentioned Mr. Blobby? I think so, quite possibly.
38:08
And I know that we're probably gonna have quite a deep chat on
38:11
that because there are reasons that I love that game for I
38:15
don't think I can articulate without thinking about it for a
38:18
while beforehand. And I'm sure I will probe you in
38:21
that. Yeah, absolutely.
38:23
And dig. A bit deeper and you know, like
38:26
what you were saying just then, I personally don't think that
38:31
you're going to walk away from Final Fantasy 7.
38:33
Just be like, that was a good game.
38:35
Well, yeah, I enjoyed that. I think you'll like elements of
38:37
it and you'll probably get an understanding for why I like it
38:40
so much. But I'm not expecting you to
38:43
walk away from that game and being okay, I really, I thought
38:46
that was really great. I really enjoyed that.
38:49
But that's fine. You know, if you turn around to
38:53
me after playing Final Fantasy 7, you like, you know what?
38:55
I think that's probably the worst game I've ever played.
38:58
I'd be like, okay, fair enough. Like, I'm glad that you've
39:01
played it, though, you know, I'm not going to get pressed about
39:04
people not liking things I like. And it's probably one of the
39:08
reasons why I felt comfortable being so open about how I felt
39:11
about Alpha Protocol. Because I knew you weren't going
39:14
to just be like, Oh, well, then the podcast canceled then You
39:19
know what I mean? There's no point doing a podcast
39:23
like this if you're going to be precious about.
39:27
I think our job is to vocalize why we think why we feel a
39:32
certain way of doing the game. But it doesn't mean that they're
39:35
always going to line up. And it doesn't mean that
39:38
together we might, we might have an epiphany that has come from
39:43
conversation rather than just an individual opinion.
39:46
And we've had that a few times, 100%.
39:49
And I think that those episodes probably make the most
39:51
interesting ones. Yeah, because they're different.
39:55
So with that being said, and that went off on a tangent, I
39:58
didn't really expect to come from this game, which like we
40:01
say is always an interesting Ave. to go down and it's, you
40:04
know, a good thing. I think it makes for interesting
40:06
content. Do you think that this game
40:10
deserves to be anywhere close to the Metacritic top 100 list?
40:16
I think you know the answer. Same way after the protocol.
40:20
Yeah. Episode, I think.
40:22
Yeah, no, it it's fine. It's a fine game.
40:30
But it hasn't spoken to me the way that it spoke to you when
40:35
you played it originally. And probably keep speaking to
40:38
you. Yeah, I think it's got strong
40:43
points that I like. I like the voice work.
40:46
I think that's wonderful. I love the Britishness of the
40:49
voice work. I feel like that never gets old.
40:52
And it is Maybe. Maybe it's us Brits that just, I
40:56
don't know, maybe we're conceited and we just love
40:59
Britishness. But I feel like it's almost
41:03
something that you don't see enough.
41:05
It's just great. And I love films like Hot Fuzz
41:10
for their Britishness and. Games like yeah, I don't know.
41:14
Yeah, this. And it's a certain type of
41:18
Britishness, isn't it? It's like the it's like the it's
41:23
cricket on a on a Bowling Green at the weekend and drinking
41:28
Pimms. And yeah, it's it's a certain
41:32
quintessential Britishness that you don't see all the time, but
41:35
it's it's lovely to imagine. So yeah, I like that aspect of
41:39
it. The gameplay is fine.
41:42
One thing I didn't like that I didn't mention is that I
41:45
mentioned to you before the episode was I think switching
41:48
characters is a bit clunky and long.
41:52
Yeah. And I feel like that would have
41:54
been better tied to hot keys, because there's probably enough
42:00
buttons that aren't used that you could probably get away with
42:02
that, although that might be equally clunky.
42:05
A John, a John Button, a Christopher Button and a Thomas,
42:10
but I feel like that would be equally clunky.
42:11
I think the the problem there is that sometimes in some levels
42:15
you're you're juggling too many characters.
42:17
And I think the levels that I enjoyed the most, I don't know
42:20
if you'd agree with this, but the levels that I enjoyed the
42:22
most were the levels you were playing with fewer characters.
42:25
When I saw three at the bottom, yeah.
42:28
And sometimes you had, you had like you say 8-9 characters, it
42:33
felt like. And when I saw that number at
42:36
the bottom, I thought, ah, God's sake and yeah, I'd much rather
42:40
have two or three. Yeah, even one.
42:43
Just give me one. That's that's fair.
42:45
It's a fair comment. I think, I don't think this game
42:49
deserves to be in the top 100 list.
42:51
I enjoy it and I think it's quirky and I think it has its
42:55
place and has its charm, but it isn't a top 100 game compared to
42:59
some of the other games that we've played.
43:01
But then again, I didn't think Tetris Connected really deserved
43:04
to be there. And you know, this is, this is a
43:07
platformer, but it is to some extent a puzzle platformer as
43:09
well. So yeah, it's an enjoyable game
43:13
for me. And it does have a special
43:16
place, I think. But it isn't a game that I
43:19
think, you know, I'd argue, Oh yeah, that should be in the top
43:21
100 of all time, what you're talking about, which I think is
43:25
fair enough. Do you think we're ever going to
43:28
have another indie revolution like we did at that time?
43:34
Do you think that's ever going to happen again or is it
43:37
toothpaste is out of the toothpaste?
43:40
Well, think. Jim.
43:43
Jim Sterling made a very yeah, Jim, Stephanie Sterling made a
43:50
very interesting point in the video they released about a week
43:56
or so ago about the amount of when you and me were at
44:00
university. I remember watching their videos
44:04
talking about all of the complete garbage that was in the
44:07
Steam Green Light project and it was all rubbish.
44:11
And they made a very good point that that kind of stuff now
44:15
seems to be coming onto the Nintendo Switch.
44:17
You know, you can go on the Switch store and there is so
44:21
much rubbish on that. Yeah, like an insane amount.
44:25
And it's, it's weird because Nintendo used to be the beacon
44:30
of quality. You know, back in the the 80s
44:33
and 90s, if a game was going to be on a Nintendo system, it
44:36
needed the Nintendo Seal of Approval, which was an actual
44:39
thing. And I think the floodgates have
44:42
opened. They still have that with their
44:43
own games. But yeah, yeah, yeah, they yeah.
44:46
I think what I think what it is with the Switch is indie
44:50
developers and some some very good, some not very good.
44:56
See, the Switch is a platform that lots of people play those
44:58
games on. So I think it's appealing in
45:01
that way. I think, yeah, there's probably
45:03
some work Nintendo needs to do to to raise that bar of quality
45:07
for titles that go on there. You get some equally poor one on
45:12
the other console. Yeah, PlayStation, the other
45:14
consoles. But there's not the levels,
45:18
because it seems like a lot of these games come out on PC and
45:23
Switch, and that's why you're getting similar problems.
45:26
A prime example is a game that came out, I think in like 2014
45:29
or 2015 on the PlayStation, so-called Life of Black Tiger.
45:33
Wow, I saw that, yeah. Yeah, which Sony Unbelievable
45:36
put on their featured page and it was like, yeah, it was
45:39
barely. So I think we won't see another
45:45
big push on indie games like we did to 10.
45:48
And there's another one as well, BioShock Infinite.
45:50
Yeah, you like that one, don't you?
45:53
That's one of your favorites I think.
45:55
Bit of an in joke there. You like that?
45:58
But yeah, I think that now the floodgates are open, people can
46:01
just upload any old rubbish that they make and call it a game.
46:04
So probably not. But maybe we will see something
46:07
similar but in a different vein, perhaps.
46:09
I don't know, and I don't know what that vein would be.
46:13
But yeah, it's interesting. I do enjoy going back to these
46:17
indie games. I think they're they're always
46:19
very interesting and they always lead to interesting
46:20
conversations. But yeah, so that that was
46:25
Thomas was alone. What are we coming up next time
46:27
is it's one of your choices in two weeks.
46:30
So my second choice in two weeks time releasing is the I'm.
46:37
I'm not going to go into detail about the the background of the
46:40
game until we get to the episode but is the game near?
46:45
Obviously the prequel to Near Automata Automata, and it's
46:53
developed by Yoko Taro. It's a Japanese RPG.
47:00
I don't want to tell you too much about it, but I will give
47:02
you some brief, I suppose, overview.
47:05
I don't want to tell you anything about the narrative or
47:08
even anything about the game play or the atmosphere or
47:12
anything like that. I want you to discover that
47:14
yourself and see what you think. I will say I think the game is
47:22
very self aware of what games are and it asks the question
47:28
what does it mean to be a game. It's very subversive of Japanese
47:32
RPGs and kind of sets things up as it looks like it's going to
47:41
be very typical JRPG and then does something different.
47:45
But I'll leave you to uncover those surprises in terms of some
47:49
of the things to prepare for. There's some side quests in this
47:53
game that you should probably skip because yeah, a lot of the
48:00
side quests, there's some really good ones in there, but wading
48:03
through the other ones to find them is probably not worth it.
48:10
Yeah, so it's very self aware with its side quests.
48:13
It kind of says to you points in the game, we know that these
48:19
side quests aren't great, but we're going to put them in here
48:21
anyway, just because that's what games seem to want to do.
48:25
So there's fetch, Quest is all that stuff.
48:27
You don't have to do any of them.
48:29
And there's a fair amount of backtracking here.
48:33
So I'll probably speak to you after the episode and I'll give
48:37
you some tips as to how to avoid some of the backtracking.
48:41
But yeah, that's the only point I'm going to give you, and the
48:44
rest I want you to just play and see.
48:47
See what you think. Fair enough.
48:49
We'll see. We'll see how it gets on.
48:51
I suppose so. I don't know anything about it,
48:53
don't know anything about the new games, so it should be
48:55
interesting. But yes, that's that's pretty
48:59
much everything for this week. As usual, we're on social media.
49:02
You know what to find us by this point.
49:04
I've been saying the same thing for three years.
49:06
So go find us on social media. And if you enjoy this episode
49:10
and you think that it was good, then please feel free to give us
49:15
a rating. Or a review.
49:19
They're always really appreciated and always really
49:20
interesting to read. So yes, but that's everything I
49:25
have for today. Is there anything further from
49:27
yourself? No.
49:28
That's it. Very good.
49:30
Well, we'll see you in two weeks time for near, and in the
49:33
meantime, take care. Cheerio.
49:35
See you on the next one.