Latest / The Leading Yourself Podcast / Navigating Leadership Challenges with Integrity | Wanda Rutledge-Gordon PhD
Transcript
- Kene Igweonu: All right, thanks for joining me for this episode of the Leading Yourself podcast. Today, I am pleased to have who joins me from Chicago. Lawanda Rutledge-Gordon, is Vice President of a global healthcare company. ⁓ Lawanda, do you want say a little bit about your leadership more generally and something that we can take away from what it means to be a Senior Vice President in a global company? Wanda Gordon: Yes. So first of all, thank you so much for having me. Glad to be here. Glad to share with your audience. I think my leadership style and characteristics have evolved over the years. When I first became an actual leader in a corporate setting, I used to say that I'm a servant leader, that my goal in life, my purpose in life was to help others find their purpose in life. As I've taken on various roles, I think that has evolved into me becoming more of a strategic visionary. And so I try to see those things that are coming ahead and prepare those I influence, those I lead, those who follow me before they actually occur. And in order to do that, I think self leadership is probably the impetus. Because if I cannot follow myself, how can I expect others to follow me? If I cannot influence myself, how can I influence others? If I cannot actually be accountable to myself, how can I expect others to be accountable to me? And so I think when you're talking about a leader that has influence, impact, and that's able to drive outcomes and results, you really have to examine who you are as a person. And that may vary for a variety of people, but that self-examination will determine your characteristics of leadership and how you lead others. Kene Igweonu: Thank you very much. That's really amazing way to think about it. Could you just say a little bit more about leading yourself? Because you said you've got to examine how you lead yourself first of all. What are some of the practical ways you do that? So examining your leadership, what are some of the things you do to look into your own self? Wanda Gordon: So I think number one for me is self-awareness. Do I know who I am and who I am representing at all times? What are some of the things that impact me? What are some things that trigger me? How do I respond under pressure? How do I respond under success? And so self-awareness is number one. Number two am I responsible for Wanda? And the reason why I think your self responsibility is very important because in a corporate arena, a lot of things happen. A lot of things happen very quickly. So am I taking accountability for the things that I do and the things that I don't do? What you will see in leadership is a lot of times leaders will take responsibility and or take the reward of their followers. That's not a good leader. A good leader will always celebrate, salute, cheer on those that they are leading first. So that responsibility of saying, hey, that wasn't me. That was actually a person that works for me that delivered on that. And I want to give that person credit. And then discipline and consistency. Am I able to obey my own core values? Because it is very easy to tell people what to do. but it's very difficult to do it yourself. I can monitor you and say, ⁓ you shouldn't do that. That's a lack of integrity. But am I able to evaluate when I am lacking integrity? And then emotional regulation. How do I respond under pressure? Do I become too emotional or am I too stoic? Because as a leader, there are times where you're to have to show empathy, but there are also times where you're going to have to be firm. Can you regulate that and actually have emotional intelligence under pressure? You can have an emotional intelligence when everything is going well, but when there's pressure and you know, we live under pressure in corporate America, whatever job, if you're in healthcare, right? If you're a blue collar worker, there's some pressure, there are some triggers. How do you respond? And then what's my vision? And you can't have a vision for a job. You can't have a vision for a career. You can't have a vision for your organization if you don't have a vision for yourself. And are you able to articulate what your vision is or what are some of your visions? So I'll say just to provide a summary, self-awareness, personal responsibility, discipline and consistency, emotional intelligence, and then a vision. Kene Igweonu: Amazing. for anyone listening, that's a gem there for you to think about how you assess yourself as a leader, to look into your own leadership, and then you can be able to start thinking about how you lead other people. So I'm going to dive into the difficult leadership. You talked about it. We make a lot of decisions on that pressure, and we often make a lot of very challenging difficult decisions that have an impact on the people that we lead and the wider impact on our organization. can you describe one of those moments where your values and not convenience or ambition guided a difficult decision that you made. Wanda Gordon: So I'll tell you a story about integrity. Integrity is very big for me. If I am working for a leader that lacks integrity, I cannot function. If I have employees that lack integrity, I cannot function. So generally when I'm coming into a new position or I'm coaching someone, let them know integrity is very important to me. ⁓ I trust that you will maintain a solid If I am working for a leader that lacks integrity, I cannot function. If have employees that lack integrity, I cannot function. So generally when I'm coming into a new position or I'm coaching someone, I let them know integrity is very important to me. ⁓ And I trust that will maintain a solid comprehension and display of integrity. comprehension and display of integrity. And so there are times in my role where we may be doing interesting things. And so let me give you an example. We wrote a book, and you might be familiar with it. It's called Sips of Wisdom. Very nice book, very clean cut book that really talks about biases in the workplace, talks about self-development in a workplace. things that you should be doing in the workplace and to help you overcome obstacles or barriers that are preventing you from being successful. Well, as we were writing the book, not everyone participated at a hundred percent. It was five people that participated in the book. Once I found that out, we had to have some crucial conversations and say, if we all did not contribute at the same level, do we actually get the same level of royalties? And if not, what does that look like? And so we had those difficult conversations with each other and came out with a resolution that was feasible. But a lot of times when you're working with someone in a corporate environment, we tend to avoid conflict. We tend to avoid crucial conversations. We tend to avoid the tough decisions that's going to get us to results. Kene Igweonu: Yeah. Wanda Gordon: What I have learned is if you are operating in a spirit of integrity, those conversations become much easier because who you are going back to self leadership, right? Self awareness, who you are is on the line. And you always want to represent the best you. Because if you're not representing the best you, you're discouraging your followers, your employees. your mentees to be their best self. Kene Igweonu: Thank you. And just thinking about that example, was there anything about making that decision, the process of making that decision that was uncomfortable for you? Wanda Gordon: Every aspect was uncomfortable because we were talking about, you know, five friends who are co-authors, right? And everyone wants to get credit. You're publishing a book, which is huge, but then you have to make sure that you're publishing with a sense of integrity. And so everyone was uncomfortable, but I also believe that through crucial conversations, you strengthen relationships. And so I say that in a corporate arena too, sometimes we need to have a crucial conversation with our leader. Kene Igweonu: Could you say a bit more? Wanda Gordon: So let's just say you're working for an organization and we just finished performance management, right? End of the year reviews. And you're not aligned with what your leader said about you. Your leader is saying you're missing some of the key objectives, but there's never been a conversation in 2025 about that. It is your responsibility to say, help me understand what you mean. We've talked various times and you've never mentioned that, but you wait until the end of the year and now you're challenging the work that I delivered. Most people just avoid it and don't say anything and stress themselves out, but it goes back to integrity. If I feel like I am being mistreated in an atmosphere, then I should be able to speak up and at least seek to understand. I'm not saying that the resolution will be different. but just make sure your voice is being heard. And that still goes back to self leadership. I have to be aware of the challenges that I am facing, but I also have to be responsible enough to speak up for myself. Kene Igweonu: And that is one of the ways you grow as a leader. Those uncomfortable moments, those uncomfortable conversations help you grow as well. And just thinking about leadership roles and titles for a moment, how do you stop your leadership role or title becoming your identity, especially when ⁓ got very high responsibility and expectations on your shoulders? Wanda Gordon: Agreed. I think it goes back to your core values. When we first started talking earlier, I talked about being a servant leader. And so a servant leader to me is one who leads from behind. You're not trying to take the credit. You're not trying to go ahead. My entire career, I have led from behind. And so it is very easy for me to not get stuck in a title when I'm behind everyone. all the time anyway. Now, what that correlates to is a lot of times I may walk in the room and I may have a team of sometimes I've had 135 people reporting to me and maybe we were at an off-site event. No one could tell at the off-site event that I was the leader because I was not the one raising my hand when the check came. They're like, who, do we give the check to? And sometimes being African-American, I was probably the only African-American in the room. So you know they were not expecting to get me to check. And they will go, my team will say, well, that's our leader there. And I would see the person like 100 % startled. However, people who are really into their title and their title define them, upon arrival, they make it clear that they're the ones that are in charge. The other piece is I am an introvert. So I'm never the loudest one in the room. And so it's very difficult to pick me out and identify who I am. Outside my corporate job, my husband is a bishop. So I'm a first lady of a region. You can't tell I'm even in the church where my husband pastors because I sit in the back, but you have to understand going back to what you said, who you are and what you represent. Sometimes the loudest person in the room is the quietest one. Sometimes the most powerful person in the room is the quietest one. What I've noticed when I've been in boardrooms and conferences, usually the person that's talking the most actually knows the least. So great leadership to me is settling yourself. And sometimes your voice is not the audible sound, it's your presence. And so to me, you prevent yourself from getting caught up in titles when you are very comfortable in who you are. Because if you show up as who you are every day, the world will recognize it without you even opening your mouth. Kene Igweonu: Yeah, words of wisdom right there. can we just spend a little bit of time here? Because I'm thinking, I have seen and I've been in those situations myself where you don't want to be the most obvious person in the room as the leader, but the people who you lead, they all pivot towards you. They all want people to know you're the one. They actually push you out to be in the front. How do you deal with that scenario where, you know, the people that you're leading are kind of wanting to be in the front ⁓ they everybody to recognize you as a leader. Wanda Gordon: So I think. The people that you lead take on your spirit. And I'm going to give you an example of this. There are often times where I am at summits, I am at conferences, I am at venues where my team may say, Wanda we want you to do the intro? An example of what you're saying, hey, your team wants you to lead. I immediately say, I want to give you an opportunity to showcase your skills. I am very comfortable at speaking. ⁓ may be an introvert. but I'm a very good motivational speaker. And the people that work with me, whether I'm coaching them, whether I'm mentoring them, they know that, right? Because I've been leading them for a while. I always flip it, but you have to understand I'm a servant leader. And so I think it's the heart of the leader. Now there are some people, exactly what you're saying, their team wants them to be in the front, so they're in the front. That person is not a servant leader and that's okay. They may be a transformational leader, right? And that's fine. You have to understand what's your leadership style and your team will respect you for that. So it's to the point where whenever we're doing something, my team knows that I'm not going to raise my hand. And so now they automatically say, well, can I do the intro? Yes, you can. Because to me, it's more important for my team to be seen than for me. I already have the role. I'm already co-founder. I'm already author. I'm already first lady. I'm already vice president, but a servant leader steps back and give others the opportunity to why is that? If you strongly believe that what is for you is for you, ⁓ moment cannot steal your purpose. Me speaking, me introducing is not gonna steal my purpose because wherever I'm supposed to be, ⁓ Kene Igweonu: Mm-hmm. Yep. Wanda Gordon: If I really believe that favor follows me, I will walk in that at the appointed time. Now, don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that other leaders do not function like that. They do. Which is why it's important to have self-awareness and to recognize what type of leadership style are you functioning in and stay true to that. Kene Igweonu: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And you spoke also about your husband being a bishop and you're the first lady. the very early days of my leadership, I struggled with the idea of being a Christian in the workplace, how to bring the Christian values of love, and peace, and things like that. How do you bring that into leadership? And I'm wondering, And I don't anymore struggle with it, but I'm wondering if there's somebody out there who might be thinking, how do I bring the idea of love into the workplace? How does that work? Could you give us some insight into how you've done it? Wanda Gordon: I believe, and this is an old saying, actions speak louder than words. I think as a leader, people watch you. Before you say anything, they're watching your behavior. They watch how you handle difficult situations. They watch how you treat people consistently. I'll give you another story. I was talking to a friend today and she says, Wanda, you're always helping people along the way. You'll develop something. just created some journals that are on Amazon and I attached my husband's name to it. And she's like, why are you always bringing people along? I said, because I don't need the victory by myself. That's an example of who are showing up before the actual person shows up. So to me, showing love in the workplace is giving compassion and empathy when someone doesn't ask for it. Some of the things that I may do, if I have someone that's sick, I'm gonna send them some food. Not because I have to, but that's the nice thing to do. I don't know who stays by themselves, who has a spouse, who has children. If you've told me you were sick, at some point you're gonna need to eat. That's showing love and compassion to people, not because I have to, but that's in my heart. And to me, that's the Christ-like way. And so I think you bring the portion of your authentic self to work that the people can deal with. You can't bring all of yourself. You know, we always say be authentic. Everybody can't handle the real you, right? Another thing, and this may sound very minute, I've been in corporate America for over 30 years. I am not a one that curse. I don't use foul language. I don't show up and say I don't curse. A lot of people just recognize it during my conversation. So if they say a curse word, the first thing they'll say is, I'm sorry, Wanda. I didn't tell them to say sorry, but they feel like, ⁓ that may be offensive to her. And I don't say anything because I'm not going to tell you how to change your dialect because of my presence, but you have to know that your presence speak before your voice does. And so I can be a Christian at work. and not announce that I'm a Christian just by the love that I show, not tell, because somebody will tell you they love you all the time. But as we know, love is an action word. There should be acts of love that follow me everywhere I go. And sometimes that's difficult in the workplace because everyone is not kind in the workplace. Everyone is not nice in the workplace. Everyone is not going to treat you the way that you treat them. Kene Igweonu: Yeah, but not in action. Yeah. Wanda Gordon: But you have to go back to the core of who am I and who am I representing every day. Kene Igweonu: Yeah, thank you so much for laying that out so clearly. And just thinking about leadership, and growing in our leadership, Is there a regular practice or habits that you've developed that help you stay grounded as a leader? Wanda Gordon: So daily I meditate or I do some type of motivation. I cannot make it in corporate America without coming mentally prepared for everything that's going to hit me. And so that's number one. I spend time meditating. And whenever I talk to someone, if I'm training someone new or I'm talking to a new hire, I will tell them my number one rule is to treat people the way you want to be treated. I live by that every day. And sometimes I have to check myself because I'll go back to not everybody in corporate America is nice and not everyone appreciates you being where you are. There are literally some people who their whole goal is to bring you down and to sabotage. And so your goal has to be, I am going to make sure that I'm grounded every day and I do not allow the environment. to take me into a person who number one, I am not and who I do not choose to be. And so every day I choose to be the best Wanda. And the best Wanda is the one that level set on her core values. And there have been times where I have literally been in board rooms and been in meeting rooms and the atmosphere has been so toxic. And so I just start writing down scriptures. because I needed to level set myself on what was going on and to ensure that I was not acting out of character. And so for me, yes, my belief in God and my Christianity is my leveling place. And that's what keeps me sane in an environment. And I'm not saying that everyday work is toxic. No, no, no, no, no, no. I'm saying that there are some toxic people out there. Kene Igweonu: Hmm. Wanda Gordon: whether you're in corporate America, whether you're of corporate America, there are some people who mean you know well. And so if you are coming across those people, you have to have some key techniques to stay true to your character because what you just said goes back to how do they know or how will they respect the fact that you are a Christian? It's the challenging times what comes out of you. Kene Igweonu: Thank you so much. So much wisdom here. So moving on to something to hold on to. For someone who is listening to this podcast, I'm kind of reflecting on what it means for themselves to lead well, lead with their values, lead integrity. You talked about integrity at the very beginning, but also to make impact in their leadership. What would you want them to nurture and hold on to? Wanda Gordon: Nurture your core values and your core principles. Because it is difficult to lead when you are not showing up as yourself. If you are showing up as an imposter, your organization will know it, you will know it, and you will not deliver on the things that you're supposed to deliver on because that level of insecurity will begin to consume you. Nurture your core values and your core principles. Because it is difficult to lead when you are not showing up as yourself. If you are showing up as an imposter, your organization will know it, you will know it, and you will not deliver on the things that you're supposed to deliver on because that level of insecurity will begin to consume you. And so a lot of times in order to be a leader that's impactful, you have to do some type of self-evaluation. Who am I? Who am I trying to be? And what are those values that are gonna get me there? What are those key principles that regardless of whatever situation I'm faced with, I level set there? That would be my advice. Kene Igweonu: Thank you so much, Wanda. I really appreciate you coming on this podcast to share your knowledge, your wisdom and experience. I think from our conversation today is a huge reminder that leadership starts with knowing yourself and being grounded and confident in who you are. I always say at the end of this that leading yourself is not instinctive. It is learned and it takes consistency. And you've just given us ⁓ very clear examples of how you learn and how you practice that consistency to lead yourself and lead yourself well. So thank you so much. Wanda Gordon: You are so welcome. Thank you for having me.