Latest / The Trauma Therapist / Episode 727: Healing Trauma with TRIP with Monique Hoving-Smeets

Transcript

Episode 727: Healing Trauma with TRIP with Monique Hoving-Smeets · The Trauma Therapist

0:10
Or welcome back to the Trauma Therapist Podcast. My name is Gaming Person.
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My mission is to help trauma therapist be their incredible cells, to be human,
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to be real, not just a clinician. I'm a big believer in
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who we are is more important than what we know, and this requires cultivating
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authenticity, genuineness and vulnerability, and that requires intention. Can learn more about
0:33
my courses and workshops by going to the Trauma Therapist project dot com. That's
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the Trauma Therapist Project dot com. Let's get started. So five four three
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to one. Our folks, welcome back to the podcast. I am very
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excited to have to my guest today, Monique Hoping Speetz. Monique, welcome
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to the podcast. Yeah, thank you, It's awesome to be here.
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Appreciate that. So. Monique is a trauma therapist on Vancouver Island but of
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Dutch origin. She works in her private practice called Relationship Works That Relationship wo
1:07
r X professionally. Over the last three to four years, she has organically
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been developing an intricative trauma treatment that is now fully actualized and she's now offering
1:18
training in this modality. Her private practice focuses on trauma therapy to the general
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public as well as therapist Monique. Welcome. Yeah, thank you, thanks
1:29
for that introduction. You're welcome. So before we get going here we share
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with our listeners where you're from originally and where you are currently. Right,
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So, yeah, I was born in the Netherlands and lived there until I
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was about eighteen. Then, due to my early career on tourism, I
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lived across the different countries in Europe, working in Greece, London, Cyprus,
1:55
and then meeting my husband back in the Netherlands. We actually decided that
2:00
we wanted to travel Australia and New Zealand. That actually led us to migrating
2:06
to Australia. So we didn't live there for about the eleven years, and
2:14
once we kind of settled there, it wasn't a great cultural fit for me
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and so Dan we decided that, okay, there's one more country that we
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can actually try as European citizens to migrate too, and that was Canada.
2:30
And so yeah, so we've been here now for eight years and absolutely loving
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it and living on Vancouver Island. Honestly, it's such a dream. It's
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so stunning. Look at you, Oh my god. Yeah, awesome.
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Yeah. Well, look, so how did all this start for you?
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I mean you mentioned you had a previous career in tourism, So take us
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through this journey. Yeah, So basically, once I returned to Holland,
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I actually started working at a recruitment agency where basically I started to obviously interact
3:04
with people who were affected by not having employment or looking at changing careers.
3:08
And in a nutshell, that kind of really led me to having conversations with
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people about their life right like how it was actually affecting them and what their
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life was like. And I start to really feel drawn to wanting to help
3:23
them more than just help them find a job, and that really led me
3:29
to consider studying therapy. So once we actually migrated to Australia or immigrated to
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Australia, that's where I started studying counseling and started to become a therapist and
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worked in Australia as a therapist and so yes, that was basically my journey.
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And one of the things that I wasn't trained in was marriage and family
3:53
therapy, and I realized that that was requiring some additional studying and so once
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we then actually moved to Canada, I actually did my Masters in merchant family
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therapy, and so when I took my masters, I realized that there was
4:12
so little training the trauma like just as the general training in the master's program.
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So I took additional training in trauma therapy and the different modalities and yeah,
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once I even started into my practicum, I started to encounter like really
4:30
significant trauma, you know, the clients were affected by. And thankfully I
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had already worked three years as a therapist in Australia prior to coming to do
4:41
my master's here, so I didn't feel as ille equipped in general as a
4:45
brand new therapist. But I started to really see the depth of the impact
4:50
of complex trauma for clients and start to really understand the lack of training and
4:58
what it was really that it was requiring on our part as a therapist to
5:00
really help these clients efficiently. So that was basically the beginning of that.
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Let me let me ask you something here, So your transition from your previous
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career to begin working with people was was was there just always an interest for
5:21
you in in in talking to people. I know, being in tourism,
5:26
you're talking to two people, but certainly on a different level. What was
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it that that about you? What was it about engaging with people on that
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other level that really compelled you to want to become a therapist? Yeah,
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I think that, Um, I can really see people being stuck. So
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when we had these conversations at a recruitment agency, so in the Netherlands,
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UM and in other countries in Europe, it's basically a shop front where people
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walk in and they sit down and they register their interest for job seeking.
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And I just really saw that their lifespan and how they were impacted by life
6:08
in general, but also how often they were stuck. And so there was
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something in me that I was like, such a strong desire to help people
6:15
reach a good quality of life. And I think, honestly that is still
6:20
what I so aim for when I work with people, is that you know,
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we only have one life at least here for far as we know,
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and I want you to make the rest of your life the best of your
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life. And how can I at least help you figure out what that looks
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like for you? And you know, like we deserve to have a good
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quality of life, but when we are affected by trauma, that is such
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a struggle for people. And so that really drew me into the therapy work
6:53
for helping people to develop a better quality of life, whatever that looks like
6:58
for people, and obviously that looks differently for people. And then you know,
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switching to working with people who've experienced trauma and even focusing on trauma.
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Is it another shift in and of itself? How was that for you?
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Yeah? That was that was really interesting because I starting to notice that,
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you know, like even from the get go that the clients that started to
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show up in my therapy room in both in Australia but then also at my
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practicum at Significant Trauma, and I was just like that there was something about
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it that when I looked at the landscape of how disaffected them, that actually
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drew me even more to wanting to figure out, like what are all the
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elements that are required to really sufficiently help people, Because people are not just
7:53
affected at one level. They're not just impacted on there, let's say,
7:57
daily functioning. They're affected by accessing their emotions. They're affected by disconnecting from
8:03
their body and not wanting to even you know, sometimes know that their body
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is even there. The way that their thoughts and emotions really start to change
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as a result, the whole nervous system and the way their brain functioned.
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And so just listening to the comprehensiveness of how trauma affected all layers of a
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human really got me curious, like what is it that we're not doing that
8:33
really helps the cater for all these different levels? And so that really got
8:41
me to search for what is the deck we need a service to really effectively
8:46
help these people? And yeah, that insight about how trauma really affects or
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impacts people on a lot of different levels. But before we go there,
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how did it sit with you personally hearing this about this trauma? We're realizing
9:07
that all these people were impacted by trauma. That can be difficult for a
9:13
lot of people, to be honest, because I work with pretty severe trauma,
9:20
like even including satanic ritual abuse, people that live with you know,
9:24
the impact of dissociative disorders. What was really hard about that for me as
9:31
a person is to actually come to terms with the honestly, the evil that
9:35
actually exists on this planet. That was a pretty big shock that learning about
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such cruelties as in ritual abuse and you know, cultiv use all those kind
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of pieces. It was another layer to really come to terms with that,
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Wow, is this what other humans are capable of doing to other people?
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I think that was really hard at first to really come to terms with that,
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and I think which is why I feel so drawn to really try to
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make a difference. I want people to know that there is help. I
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want people to know that there is somewhat of a way out. And I'm
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not obviously just for that group, but for you know, all the clients
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that I work with, and they're white and buried in terms of what they've
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experienced. But yeah, it was that piece that really made me even want
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to quote unquote fight harder to find an answer, a way through this chaos
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for clients. You mentioned that you were wondering, you know, how can
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we help people? What are we not doing? So how did things fold
10:54
for you? How did your understanding of what you could do, what help
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could be offered? How did that unfold for you? Yeah? So during
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my master's program, I took training in emotion focus therapy in family systems therapy
11:11
because obviously it was American family therapy course, so you really look at the
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systemic impact. I had been thought different a couple of modalities and family modalities,
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and when I started working with clients. What I found is that using
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these modalities in and of themselves, we're not causing change to the point that
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it really made a difference in people's lives. So then once I finished my
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Masters, I took a training that actually is a training that works one at
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a time. It's actually developed here in Canada. And as I started to
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work with one I open at a time and using some of their techniques,
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I start to be exposed instantly to all the layers that I was just talking
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about, because with one I open, I literally could see how the body
12:11
was responding differently. The facial expressions changed, the thoughts, and the emotions
12:16
started to change. And that really started to clue me in, like,
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we can't let clients go to one modality, to a therapist that uses a
12:31
one approach and then hope that the rest of the parts of being human will
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just follow. Right. So, if I'm helping you work with vulnerability and
12:41
having access to your emotions, but then what happens to your brain and what
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happens to your body? Right? And so I started to really see that
12:50
me applying like the modalities that I had learned really required integration because of what
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I was seeing when I started working one I added time and one eye at
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a time. What is that? So literally, when you cover one eye,
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yeah, your brain actually access your entire system in ways that I had
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not seen before. So the techniques that I've further shaped and developed originally come
13:20
from a therapy, a technique they're called that's called OEI, and that was
13:24
here developed here in Canada. And so once I actually started to change the
13:31
application and enhance these techniques, what we start to notice is that, so
13:37
when you cover one eye, your nervous system does not respond the same as
13:43
when you switch to the other side. It's like an instant switch. And
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what I start to notice is that when you talk about compartmentalization and working with
13:56
parts, I had not had prior parts training, but in Australia I had
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taken did training. And so what I started to see is that it was
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almost like all my clients had parts show up. So, for example,
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if a client said to me, oh, you know, let's focus on
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I don't know my trauma about carrots. Let's just not make a triggering for
14:22
this episode, right, And so I would then ask them to cover one
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eye and I would say, okay, so how does this side feel about
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that experience being afraid of carrots? How does this side? Yes? Okay,
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okay, go ahead, yes, So this side as in with that
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eye open, and I now know that depending on the level of dissociation and
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compartmentalization, there can be multiple parts on one eye so connected to the left
14:52
eye, but there's different parts that are connected to the right eye. Wow,
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which is honestly like it flabbergasted me because I asked the person, okay,
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so on this side, how does this set feel about you know,
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your fear of carrots? And that part would say to me, fear of
15:16
carrots. I don't know what you're talking about. And I thought, hang
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on, didn't you just with both eyes open tell me does it's what you
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wanted to work on? And I said, oh, so this side isn't
15:28
afraid of carrots. No, I have no idea what you're talking about.
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And I'd be like, would you be okay if I check what the other
15:35
side feels about that and how the other side feels so then I would ask
15:39
permission to swear, and then all of a sudden, this side would start
15:45
to dissociate and be completely overwhelmed and say, oh, I'm wondering voice would
15:50
instantly change, nervous system would change, the voice would change, and that
15:56
part would go I'm absolutely terrified of carrots. And so in that process and
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started to realize that because each side holds different parts, they're not on the
16:11
same page. There they seem to be neurologically not connected in the same way.
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And that goes through littlely the layers of emotions, of thoughts, body
16:27
responses, and even memories. And that became so interesting for me because with
16:37
both eyes open, people would say to me, yes, I would really
16:41
like to work through this, It's going to be hard. But then by
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the time I would switch to the other eye, I would find out that
16:49
that I didn't even want to talk about it. Wow, And that started
16:56
to shape what I now call the permission process US. And so the modality
17:03
that I've developed exists of three subbut core processes. And I started to literally
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ask, so, with the left eye open, how do you even feel
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about the fact that we want to talk about the carrots? Well, yeah,
17:18
of course, because you know, I've been dealing with this for twenty
17:21
years. I'd really like to get rid of this problem. It will not
17:25
go to the other side and the inter side goes, oh, that's a
17:26
terrible idea. I don't know if we're going to have to feel the feelings
17:30
about that, We're going to be so overwhelmed we won't be able to handle
17:33
this. And so I literally started to shape Okay, so this side is
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really scared. That makes so much sense, And I want you to know
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that we won't do anything until we have your full permission to go ahead.
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I honestly like people bawl their eyes out even just saying that that I will
17:59
not put ahead until we have full permission from both sides. So clients started
18:07
to really teach me the significance of never doing any trauma work until we have
18:15
permission from all parts. But with one eye covered, you ask the question,
18:19
how does this side feel about that? Are there any hesitations or worries
18:26
if we're gonna, you know, focus on this and possibly try to heal
18:30
us. And so in a permission process, I then ask parts what would
18:36
it take, what would they need either from me or from the other side,
18:41
the neighboring I in order to make this process safe. And that has
18:49
become one part of the trip approach, and it literally has changed the way
18:56
I do therapy significantly. No, I mean, yeah, there's there's what
19:02
comes up obviously is a reference to parts work in and of itself, right,
19:07
internal family systems. What I'm noticing here is when you close one eye,
19:15
when one eye has covered, you know what is this? There's the
19:18
invitation for just one other part. How do you allow for more parts than
19:26
just right? Yeah? So interestingly enough is that it's almost like, depending
19:33
on what you've chosen to work on, what the scientists chosen to work on,
19:37
it's like all the parts that are connected to that can show up.
19:42
And what I mean by that is that, um, depending on the level
19:47
of dissociation, UM, the what I call the presenting self might say to
19:52
me, Oh, that's so weird. I hear this voice say, um,
19:57
oh, I remember that experience and I was five years old and I
20:03
was left really alone. And so it's almost like the person can either represent
20:10
and speak for the part what they're hearing, but it's like there's instant access
20:15
to the part that is related to that experience. What sometimes happens is that
20:22
as we switch to the other side, sometimes new parts come to the surface.
20:26
They don't even know what we're talking about. So in one of my
20:30
last sessions last week, we were processing and then all of a sudden I
20:37
moved back to the other eye and a part said, could you please explain
20:42
what we're doing here? Because I have no idea what you're talking about,
20:48
And so I didn't have to wheel it back and kind of go, oh,
20:51
well, welcome. Do you even want to be here? Do you
20:55
want to be part of this conversation? So I kind of really asked that
20:57
permission again, and would you like me to explain what it is that we
21:03
do here? And so, and then if they feel that this experience matters
21:08
to them, they'll stay. And if I say, well, if this
21:12
experience doesn't relate to you or it doesn't matter to you, feel free to
21:17
go to the background and we'll just continue what we're doing. So yeah,
21:23
So in that way, multiple parts can show up, right, and there
21:30
is space for, you know, all parts to show up, but it
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typically seems to whoever is connected to the experience tends to be at the front.
21:38
Now, is this modality specifically for people who've experienced interpersonal abuse or what
21:51
so? So far, I literally have used it with any kind of developmental
21:57
trauma, incidental trauma, complex trauma, like, Um, you know,
22:03
I worked with clients that have disordered eating. I have clients with severe anxiety
22:08
depression. Um. The range that I've tried this with clients is literally across
22:15
the board. Wow. And um, and I don't I saw on your
22:22
on your site that you do a training in early psychosis. I was studying
22:26
early psychosis. Yeah, I was working in a facility a while ago.
22:30
Yeah. So, and you may be interested in this to this. So
22:36
I have done some No, I've experienced some one of experiences that I can't
22:41
sort of validate until we know a little bit more about the research. So
22:45
I was in a situation where somebody was experiencing an active psychotic episode and my
22:53
brain went hang on because in my in my training for therapist, I have
23:00
the trauma eye, which is basically the eye that's directly connected to the experience,
23:06
and we noticed that the other eye tends to be more connected to the
23:10
here and now. So when you hear these parts talk differently about that experience,
23:17
it's often where the part is literally directly experiencing that, and the other
23:22
eye will then say, you know, I don't really know. This is
23:25
not me. I'm not the one that has anxiety. So knowing that I
23:29
differentiate between what I call the trauma eye and the calm eye, and trying
23:33
to make sense of how the brain operates. When this person was in a
23:38
psychotic episode, I literally ran to the person and I thought, what if?
23:45
What if it's possible that the psychosis is only connected to the one eye
23:49
and not the other. So I literally went to lay down on the floor
23:53
trying to figure out could I see because I've learned to really watch eyes and
23:57
see what happens. And the person was screaming. They were in a very
24:03
catatonic state. They were calling, you know, that something was very dangerous
24:07
and that everything was on fire. And so I kept saying, can you
24:12
close one eye? Can you please close one eye? Know? And there
24:17
was like really intense. I don't want to replicate the voice for privacy purposes,
24:21
but also for the intensity. It was like a demonic voice, like
24:25
screaming. I kept trying a few times, and I said, can you
24:30
just try closing one eye for me? Guy? Honestly, like all of
24:34
a sudden, the person squeezed their eye. Instantly they recognized me and they
24:40
started trying. They said, oh well they I am so scared you know,
24:44
it's just like, what the heck. No. This was literally where
24:49
I was living at the time. It was in a home that we were
24:52
renting. It was the person upstairs having and I'm just like, no way,
24:56
So I'm here like regulating the person call me them down, and I
25:00
said, help is on its way. Just slow here, just look at
25:03
me. I'm here with you. You're not alone. But of course I
25:07
couldn't help to think about what about the other eye. Where did that psychotic
25:11
episode go? Where did the psychosis go? And I said, would you
25:15
be willing to close this eye so we can check in on the other eye?
25:19
And the person closed the calm eye and guy, honestly, instantly the
25:26
psychosis was back. The person started screaming, yelling fire, really scared.
25:32
But I thought, oh my gosh, it's true. I got him to
25:37
switch ice three times and all of a sudden, he's like, oh when
25:40
I come back it was, and thankfully before the ambulances came, we were
25:47
able to get him back to his regular state. That to me was mind
25:52
blowing. And so knowing what I've kind of learned over time, I've I've
26:02
developed these three processes that help to integrate the left side with the right side
26:10
through the different processes that I've developed, and what it focuses on is to
26:15
kind of rebuilding an internal attached self. And so it's all I can say.
26:26
It's been a whirlwind of discoveries um. And one of my clients is
26:33
fully blind as two artificial ice does not have an optic nerve, and I
26:40
have figured out a way to make this work for her. Of course you
26:44
have what is this? What is this? What is this modality called?
26:48
It's called TRIP. So I've called it Trauma trip t R I p okay
26:55
um and it stands for trauma regulation and integration process. Because this entire process
27:06
really focuses on every step gets regulated through leaning on emotion focused work, through
27:12
going into somatic strategies, by using the switching techniques and making sense of it
27:19
from an attachment lens. And so then every step of the way we regulate
27:26
and very gently work towards integration. And because I draw from these different therapeutic
27:33
modalities, it is absolutely an integrative approach that allows the cater for the thoughts,
27:40
for the emotions, for the body, the brain, and the eyes,
27:44
like it literally encompasses or is kind of like how do. I say,
27:51
it facilitates a process where all aspects that make us human that are impacted
27:56
by trauma are catered for it. So what is going on neurologically when we
28:06
cover one eye? Right number? Yeah? Well that well, let me
28:14
ask you this, So at what point would you invite someone to cover one
28:18
eye? So? Um, Basically, once when when I have a new
28:23
client, um, and typically I get referrals to trauma, I will do
28:27
an intake. We obviously talk about you know, what they what they would
28:30
like to process. I will actually explain how the brain and the eyes are
28:38
differently connected, and how each eyes differently wired to the emotion thoughts body experiences
28:45
when what they can expect. So once they say to me, with both
28:48
eyes open, okay, here here is you know, the landscape of what
28:53
I've gone through. We either pick a particular experience, but it can also
29:00
be just a physical sensation. You don't have to have a memory. You
29:06
do not have to have a specific memory. You can literally say to me,
29:10
I don't know why, but the smell of peanut butter just has me
29:14
in a terrible state, right, And so we can kind of go,
29:18
okay, we may not know what this is connected to and then we go,
29:22
okay, with both eyes open, you would like to try this,
29:27
and then I will go okay, well let's get started, and would you
29:30
mind discovering which ie you get to choose, And so then they choose which
29:36
I did like to cover first. Now I was going to give you a
29:38
heads up because I could see trying to cover one eye. So the first
29:44
process that I haven't spoken about is the projection process, and the reason why
29:48
I just briefly want to mention it when you cover one eye, if you
29:52
have trauma that is not resolved one I will typically instantly see the world different
30:00
me and so my appearance might actually change for a client that ranges from mild
30:07
to wild, which is why I was kind of getting a little bit of
30:11
a panic attack. While not a panic attack will when I saw you cover
30:14
the eye, I'm like, oh, be gentle be because you might experience
30:17
something that I haven't actually spoken about. One of the things that we know
30:23
is that one eye, which is often the dominant eye, but not always
30:29
that I, tends to be connected to the nervous system in different ways.
30:33
And I'm currently having conversations with somebody in the nerve science field to really figure
30:37
out more about why this happens. So what cans that happen is so when
30:45
you cover one eye, is that that I might actually see me and the
30:51
world different visually, physically, and emotionally. And I have clients reporting me
30:56
that they say to me, Oh, all of a sudden, your head
31:00
looks really big monachue or they go you literally look like it goes and I
31:06
am terrified if you My heart is racing right now. So what I do
31:11
is I actually regulate the nervous system by going, Okay, I know you
31:15
really scared right now. Would you like me to come closer or would you
31:18
like me to back up? And so I let the client give me a
31:22
sense of what do they think they need, and so we check in with
31:25
the body and they go, I just feel so tense right now, so
31:27
I might back up. I work mainly online, so I will literally roll
31:32
my chair backwards and you can physically see how their nervous system starts to shift.
31:40
So we actually regulate the nervous system to a safe place. When they
31:45
then switch to the other side, they go, oh, thank god,
31:48
you just look like you did before. And so what it has taught me
31:52
is that your eyes would both eyes open, they do not perceive the world
31:56
the same. They do not perceive danger and safety the same way. Is
32:01
that because of a neurological reason. I mean the eyes, well, the
32:07
eyes are kind of connected to the opposite side of the brain, right,
32:10
Yeah, they're both, So there is one so basically the optic high as
32:15
m basically kind of splits. So there's one that goes from your left to
32:19
the right part of the brain, but it also has a connection from the
32:22
eye that goes to the same part of the brain. One of the things
32:25
that I'm currently figuring out, because the amygdala is actually two parts, right,
32:30
you have a left and the right hemisphere amygdala. So what I'm trying
32:35
to figure out is how is each eye differently connected to the amygdala and then
32:39
do they have a campus Because of how each eye accesses different memories, different
32:45
experiences, including the body completely can respond differently in that moment. And so
32:55
my quest at the moment is to really get more neural scientific understanding about why
33:01
this works the way that it does. And so I actually have a professor
33:07
joining me on this journey right now who's kind of wanting to help me figure
33:09
this out. And so that's really cool, really interesting, and it makes
33:15
a lot of sense to me too. Are you finding that when people cover
33:22
the right eye more or the left eye more? Is there any kind of
33:27
No. I've been trying to track that there does not seem to be much
33:30
consistency at all, right, And so yeah, one of the things that
33:37
was good for me to learn is that this whole left brain right brain concept
33:43
is actually a myth, which actually really helped me feel relieved because I do
33:46
not see a consistency in how if it's the left eye that you know,
33:51
impacts people more in a certain way or the right eye. So I have
33:55
not had that observation, and so when I learned that that actually is a
34:00
myth, I was like, oh gosh, thank goodness, that makes sense
34:02
to me. And there's so much that we don't know about how the nervous
34:12
system gets impacted by ques from the outside right, And obviously if the nervous
34:20
system gets activated, then the signals to your body are going to change.
34:25
So to kind of put it in perspective, if so let's say that you
34:30
know, you had a car accident and you were not able to exit right.
34:36
You know, when we talk about sematic strategies that your body has had
34:38
to mobilize in either the fight or flight in order to have kind of at
34:43
least resolved some part of that trauma experience. So what happens is that when
34:49
I have somebody come who has been in an accident, I literally asked him,
34:52
can you cover one eye for me? And can you just move your
34:55
legs for me? Can you just march like on the spot you're sitting in
35:00
a chair or standing. If it's the trauma eye that's open, we will
35:06
typically find out that the body can't move, it has difficulty moving, it's
35:10
really slow in its motor movements. I then get them to switch to the
35:16
other side, meaning covering the other eye, and I asked them to do
35:21
the same thing, and all of a sudden, those same legs now can
35:24
move. That's if the accident never happened. So all of a sudden,
35:30
just with a switch of an eye, your body is functioning and responding without
35:37
the impact of the accident. And as a little side trill, I've worked
35:44
with a gentleman here on Vancouver Island who had a stroke and prior to the
35:49
stroke had a car accident and he kind of got stuck in his rehabilitation,
35:53
and I said, look, I've never tried to switch stroke. I honestly
35:58
can't promise you anything. But if we know what stroke does, then we
36:02
know that there's something that is misfiring in the brain. Again, it was
36:08
one of those experiences that left us both like almost like not screaming, but
36:14
kind of being excited. I asked him, could you please cover one eye
36:17
for me and just show me a movement that you normally can do because his
36:22
arm and his hands are what you call it, what paralyzed. His hand
36:30
cannot like direct and grasp. We covered one eye and his hand was floppy,
36:37
it could not grab my hand and it didn't have strength. And then
36:42
literally as we covered the other eye, his hand opened. He was able
36:46
to grab my hand and squeezed it. We were like, what on earth?
36:53
I literally ran down the stairs grabbed his wife. I said, you
36:57
have to come and look at this. And so he did say to me
37:02
like, I have a fear of falling since I've had this stroke. And
37:08
sure enough, we covered one eye and I said, so on this side,
37:14
do you notice that fear of falling? He goes, no, I
37:16
feel really stable, and he was able to march on the spot. Then
37:20
he switched to the other side and it was almost instant as if he fell,
37:23
and instantly the terror was there. And so these kind of discoveries really,
37:31
as you can imagine, just had my brain in pieces, like how
37:37
am I going to knit these pieces back together? And one of the techniques
37:44
that I started to develop is what I call the flash, the quick flash.
37:50
So with the eye that has access to the body in a healthy way
37:54
or to healthy thoughts or to truth. Let's say, you know, one
38:00
I believe it's all your fault, and with that, the whole body kind
38:04
of stiffens up. I get you to cover that eye that that basically can't
38:13
believe that. So we leave the eye opened that says to me, yes,
38:15
it's not my fault. My body feels calm. I can move my
38:20
body. And then I have the person go open and close literally like a
38:23
peekaboo movement. And then as I started to do that, instantly the person
38:29
actually they say to me like it feels like a little tsunami that hits the
38:32
calm site. And then after doing that a few times, we switched back
38:37
and then the person goes, well, maybe it's not my fault, maybe
38:43
I consider that, and then we would switch back and then keep using the
38:47
quick flash until that are all of someone like, oh my goodness, of
38:52
course it wasn't my fault. But then you see the whole nervous system and
38:57
the body just change, and it's worth that truth at an emotional level,
39:01
at a thought level, and at a sematic level. There seems to be
39:07
a from from from my perspective, kind of an obvious connection between like brainspotting
39:14
and emdr where you're kind of going back. Yeah, I mean it's really
39:21
interesting and really exciting. Quite frankly, yes, and honestly it's a little
39:29
bit scary because I'm a nobody, right Like, I'm just sitting here on
39:32
little Vancouver Island developing these processes, combining these methodologies. And yeah, but
39:40
you know what, as you say that, I'm just reminded of my interview
39:45
interviews with Judithmine, who was right nobody. She was a researcher, was
39:53
working with people, and she started noticing things like you did. Or Patricia
40:00
doctor Protriccition Resik, who developed with the other modality as this interviewed. But
40:08
she just she noticed things. You know, you're noticing things yes, Oh
40:15
yes, it's really exciting. Yes, and it's hard, right, Like
40:20
I do my sessions, and typically what a trip session looks like is I
40:23
do the projection process, where my check how do you observe me on this
40:28
side? How does your body respond on this side? Do I need to
40:30
move backwards upon closer? So we actually make sure that both eyes feel regulated,
40:37
and through the entire session, I will constantly change my distance to meet
40:43
the needs of the nervous system for each eye. Then we move into the
40:46
permission process and obtain that permission if we get there. And then once we
40:52
have the permission, we go into what I call the compassion process, and
40:55
that's basically where we go into the layers of the trauma. So on this
41:00
side, what's this experience with the trauma is that the same as the other
41:06
side. And two key pieces from an attachment perspective that are so crucial in
41:12
trip is that I've discovered that typically on the one eye, there are the
41:17
parts that stay connected and all costs. So from an attachment perspective, their
41:25
behavior, their thoughts, and their emotions function even to stay connected with an
41:31
environment that's not healthy or to meet the expectation of a family of virgin member
41:37
that is still in their mind trying to meet their expectation. But then when
41:42
we switch to the other side, that side tends to operate from a staying
41:46
protected at all costs, and that side might function like, Oh, I
41:52
don't care who you are, but you wrong me once and I'm going to
41:54
cut you off. So now you have this internal conflict. And my belief
42:02
is that it actually comes often as a result of self abandonment as part of
42:07
trauma. It's the minute that we have to leave what we need and how
42:13
we feel and what matters to us when our environment actually demands for us to
42:19
leave us and focus on them, and or you know, due to fear,
42:24
whatever happens, we abandon ourselves due to what happens in the environment.
42:30
So in the compassion process, we figure out which side wants to stay connected
42:37
at all cost, which side wants to stay protected at all costs, and
42:42
what do we do to help them very very gently come on the same page
42:45
so that they can actually be compassionate towards each other. Because the left side
42:51
sometimes might say, oh, my gosh, is the other side still dealing
42:54
with this? Why is the other side still scared? It was thirty years
42:58
ago. Like, I really don't know why the other side is still struggling
43:01
with this. There is so much judgment coming from one eye often to the
43:07
other side, so there is no compassion on the inside because of what they've
43:14
learned in attachment on the outside. Wow, Monique, Yeah, it's there's
43:22
something exciting about it. I kind of want to like, I want to
43:23
do this. Yes, look we got to wind down here. Really really
43:30
interesting. So are you obviously what are your services that you're offering for people.
43:37
Yeah, So basically I work with the general public as well as therapists,
43:43
and I offer trainings to serrapists. We actually have one coming up in
43:45
June, and so it's basically a hybrid training where it's access to an online
43:52
platform and we do with three day life online training and where you get to
44:00
actice these processes, so that literally that once you've done the training, you
44:05
can move on Monday into your room and start using us. And so what
44:09
therapists start to experience when they do the training and they go, oh my
44:14
gosh, I've been working through my own trauma in so many different ways and
44:19
it didn't work. So they often actually sign up to do trip, either
44:24
with myself or with my colleague, my practice colleague, Mirl, and we're
44:29
both Dutch and we were both very excited about trip and so we actually cater
44:34
a lot for therapists to come and join us in experiencing us. And the
44:39
feedback that I get is that therapist often say to me trip seems to work
44:45
when nothing else does. Now I find it a little bit hard to hear,
44:50
as like I said, like I'm in nobody right just for somebody to
44:52
say this works when nothing else works, I find it a little bit hard
44:58
to accept at this point. But I know for me it's true when I
45:00
work with my clients because of the change that I see that happen for them.
45:08
Well, once again, I was speaking with Monique hoping smeets. The
45:13
website is Relationship works. That's relationship and then works spelled wo r X will
45:20
have that linked up at the show notes page at the Traumatis podcast dot com,
45:22
as well as the link for the workshop that's coming up in June two.
45:28
We'll have that linked up. Um, Monique, Wow, really exciting
45:35
to me. And I have to say I love the way you talked about
45:40
how you work. I mean, there was a lot of invitation and asking
45:45
a permission and going slow and uh, you know, working with kind of
45:52
conversing with both sides and kind of all of the good and I think well
46:00
respected best practices in a sense of what we've come to learn about a lot
46:04
of different modalities. So yeah, awesome, thank you. Yeah you're welcome.
46:08
So the best way for people to get in contact with you is that
46:13
the website or what yeah, so website or email. So the email is
46:16
Monique at Relationship works Therapy dot com. We also have a Facebook group.
46:22
It's the Trip Facebook group, so it's Trip Drama Regulation and Integration process and
46:30
so we do have a Facebook group that if people are curious, you know,
46:34
to find out more or even connect with therapists who've taken the training,
46:37
right, Like, I always believe that it's better to kind of hear how
46:40
other therapists have experienced it so that you don't have to take it from me,
46:45
but you know, check with other therapists, you know, how they
46:46
have felt, what the training was like, and how how they're using that.
46:51
We're actually rolling out a first research project which is really exciting. So
46:55
we've trained a batch of therapists and we're now going to fight their clients to
47:01
fill in their experiences through surveys over the next six to twelve months to actually
47:07
figure out is this valid, does this does this integrative approach have any merit?
47:14
Is there really a need to combine you know, these different therapeutic elements
47:19
so that clients don't have to go, you know, to five different therapists
47:22
to receive the integrative care that the holistic care that they're needing. Yeah,
47:27
and so so that's very exciting that that's coming up. Awesome, well,
47:31
awesome, great to meet you, and I look forward to getting this out
47:36
there. Thank you so much, Thanks so much, guy. All right,
47:38
thank good care Bye,