Latest / Uncomfortable Conversations with Josh Szeps / Julia Zemiro: Australian Legend

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Julia Zemiro: Australian Legend · Uncomfortable Conversations with Josh Szeps

• 0:00
  Get our humans. Welcome to the Safe Space for dangerous ideas. How about a bit of fun today?
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  We're one of Australia's greatest performers. A little conversation about what it takes to sustain
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  a career in the creative arts. A career as fantabulous as today's guests. She is one of Australia's
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  most beloved performers. She's an actor and improv comic, a television host. She's hosted the
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  official New Year's Eve telecast live from Sydney Harbour. The music quiz show Rock Quiz
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  and, most notably, her own beloved television interview show Julius Amiro's Home Delivery.
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  I sat down with her to muse on her career and what it takes to make it kind of tough.
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  Please enjoy the one and only Julius Amiro.
• 0:57
  So you're anxious about flying ever since COVID. You don't strike me as that person.
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  I don't want to be that person. Why don't you not be that person? Are you afraid of
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  little germs sliding through the air of the airplane? But I'm just going to be shy
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  out of the sky if I'm honest. I'm a bit scared of that. You'd say why would you think that?
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  But I don't know. Well, don't fly over Ukraine or even probably Russia.
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  Sure. Or any number of a growing list of countries with internal strife.
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  So when I was doing commentary for the Eurovision Song Contest.
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  Yes, which I want to talk about. One of my favourite jobs in the whole
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  entire world. The year I left, it was going to Ukraine and we'd been
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  before doing other things before for Eurovision. I mean, loved it.
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  But part of me just went, oh, God, it's a little bit much.
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  I don't know. I think we have a healthy sense of denial of human beings,
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  which is absolutely necessary. But any level of denial I've had strongly built up in
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  me as an only child. I just think the last five years has really just started to
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  tip away and I don't mind it. I don't mind feeling more.
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  Well, you've sort of feeling the wrong things, though. In this era, in this crazy time.
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  Yeah, sure. So it's not, it's the being shot out of the sky,
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  not so much. But why did COVID bring about the shot out of a sky?
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  Well, we couldn't go anywhere for ages for a start.
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  So you've got out of the habit. You've got out of the habit.
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  And also maybe it's something about, oh, look, I'm astounded that people don't talk about COVID
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  still every day, the sense of vulnerability. What could happen? It shut the world down.
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  I mean, it's pretty incredible. I don't know how to think about it. I don't remember it.
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  I'm just like, what's the matter with you thinking about it? Why don't we not remember that period?
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  But it's a bit like, I thought we were going to genuinely learn something quite extraordinary
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  out of that time. All the horror of it. It felt like the revolution that could be had, right?
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  We were going to, for example, just even the way we all fell in love with teachers again.
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  Now my mother's teacher and nurses, but I mean, really, I think teachers, you kind of go,
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  you do realize they do a pretty good job out there. Yeah, when you have to actually
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  teach the little knock bags yourself at home. And then you realize, oh, we fall in love with
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  them and then we forget about them. We're very, I don't know, I understand that everybody wants to
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  get back to normal and not think about. I understand that, of course. But
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  when you make a mistake in life, when you make a mistake in life, when stuff happens to you
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  in life, it's kind of a learning curve. You kind of go, oh, right. What was that about? I don't
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  know. I think we should reflect more on what were our mistakes? Our mistakes were
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  life is precious. Help each other more. I mean, you know, it was blowing my tiny mind. Victoria
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  had it bad, right? So in New South Wales, I'd go into shops because I've got friends in
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  Victoria. And I was worried about them. And I'd say to people in shops morning, they go, hi,
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  how's your day? I go, great. I guess, I mean, what about Victoria? And like, why what's happening
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  in Victoria? Who are these people? And I'd say, oh, you know, like, I mean, COVID, yeah. But I
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  mean, we're fine here. I go, you're sure. But in Victoria, not a 10 hour drive away from here.
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  It's quite full on. I know. I've got mates there. I'm just thinking about that. Listeners in
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  Europe will find it hilarious that you just said, not a 10 hour drive as if it's really close.
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  You know, there's someone listening in Brussels who's like, not a 10 hour drive.
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  I know. But that forget me across eight countries. I know. That's why I want to go back overseas
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  because I want the pleasure of driving for 10 hours and crossing a coupler. Yeah. And actually
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  having some different human beings. Oh, I've threatened different foods. Different foods.
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  Different smells. That's great. You're going to have to get over the aeroplane thing. Then you're
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  not going to get shown out of the sky and you're not going to catch COVID on a plane. Even if you
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  do catch COVID on a plane at this stage, do you care? So you can you do that in a little loop and I'll
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  just play it on a little. That'd be great. I'll do it for you. They should put me on the
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  in-flight entertainment radio station just saying, you're not going to catch COVID on a plane
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  in the plane. It's not going to be blown out of the sky. Why have they not? Please note, it's insane.
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  These statements may not be true. I will make a call today. Okay. Very good.
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  So I've just been wandering around the world. That's been very fun. That's why we're talking about
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  aeroplanes. I love flying still. I mean, there was one of the worst things about the pandemic was
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  the sense of being trapped inside this country. Lovely country. Nothing against this country.
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  Sure. Great land. But I don't want to only be in this land. I don't want to not be able to leave
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  the land. I know. And whether you were whether you were born here, you're a kids of immigrants,
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  whatever. Once you grow up in Australia, you realize, oh, if I want to do anything, I really have
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  to go a long way. So you kind of go, oh, yeah, that's what we do. We've got a long way. I was just
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  in New York and Washington. And then I was like, I'll pop over to Portugal and see a friend of mine
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  who lives in Europe and to an American or a European, the idea that you pop over the Atlantic sounds
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  ridiculous. But for me, it's a five hour flight. It's nothing. It's like going to Perth. It's
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  nothing. This is you, but they're in the same neck of the woods. You're sitting on a plane for 22
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  hours. An extra five is not going to kill you. Expand your mind. Expand your mind, baby. Stretch your
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  legs. Okay. So what have you flown yet? Have you flown an overseas yet since the pandemic?
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  No, I told you I haven't. Well, you didn't say hadn't you said you don't like it. No, I've been to Perth
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  for a rock. Literally. Yep. That's it. Just gone to rock. How did you go on the plane?
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  It was a bit tricky to begin with. It was all right. People say Australians are parochial. But you
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  were born in Exxon Provasse. I know. You're a lady of the world. You did the Eurovision and
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  everything. You don't strike me as a parochial. It's not about being parochial. It's just a layer
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  of denial has been just pulled away from my eyes. I'm just gone. Yes. There was no denial. There was
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  no denial. The fact that thousands of flights leave to take off every and land every day safely.
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  Some don't. You will more a lot more cars don't. So you would have to have a
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  concomitantly, proportionately higher stress level driving in a car. I guess part of me goes to,
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  I don't want to look, my stepson's overseas at the moment, having the time of his life, which is
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  wonderful. But I don't know. I'm 56. So maybe age has something to do with as well. What a Debbie
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  Downer. What a people grasping at straws. Maybe it's because I'm a blonde. Maybe. Maybe I need to
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  adjust. My name starts with Z. I can't know what it is. Okay. Okay. Here we go. Here we go. I think
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  what it is is I have to create an exciting enough reason to go. And that means I'm not a terrible,
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  I'm not a very good holidayer. So I need to go and do something. That's why I loved Eurovision
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  because we had something to do over there. And then after the crazy 10 days of what we were doing,
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  I'd always stay there longer, hang around for a couple of weeks, do some fun things. And then you
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  feel like, oh yeah, this is time. So maybe I need to do a course or something. Yeah. Would a
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  delectable Portuguese pastry be enough of a reason? Almost. Yeah, and it pretty good. Doing
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  top-ups every day is almost, well that's spain. But yeah, I do it there as well. They're all
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  the same. The Iberians. I like structure. I need structure. Are you all workaholic?
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  Oh, yes. In that, I get great pleasure out of it, always have in general. But in 2019, I was
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  dying to think, hmm, I'm not loving this as much as I used to. So maybe I'll take a year off.
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  We were going to go to France, my partner and I to scatter my dad's ashes because he died in 2019.
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  You were going up very happy, go to France and then to the straight back down again.
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  Yeah, because of COVID. Dad's ashes. Well, sure. But he's French and I wanted to do the right
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  thing. And I thought it'd be a lovely thing to do to speak to his relatives and say what went down.
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  And so we were all planning to go overseas and we'll go back to Denmark as well. And then COVID.
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  So where did you put pops? He's still in my cupboard. He's still here. He's in the garage. Yeah,
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  no, my cupboard. I wouldn't put it in the garage. Cold in there. Where's the cupboard? Just off my
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  bedroom. Okay. Yeah. He's doing okay. Yeah, I think he is. As well as an earne of ashes can be
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  expected to do. I've planted an olive tree. Oh, it's nice. Yeah. So I do look at it sometimes and
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  go and tend to it and have a chat and you could scatter in there. Is it okay to divv it up? I might
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  do. Yeah, you could do that. I think so. Why are you asking me? I'm an authority on the
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  designation of human remains. It's true. And I have a feeling you might have had a cut
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  interest interest in conversations. Have I spoken to a person about the etiquette of the
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  scattering of human remains? No. I mean, you know, there are great stories about how you can't
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  scatter them in so many places. Yeah, you're not allowed to in some places. That's right. So I'm
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  always interested in going, where can't you? Where should you? I always like the stories about
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  people who try to take it out to sea and they're on a boat and they try to throw it in the
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  water and the wind blows and it gets in their eyes and they're spluttering with human ashes in
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  their mouth and nose and ears. I want to see you doing that. Yeah. No, I'll be smart. I'll be
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  going to spend where I am. No, okay. Yeah. So if someone tells you that okay, you can go overseas
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  and you can have a beautiful two week long, all expenses paid trip to somewhere if you're choosing.
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  Or they say you can go overseas and shoot this gig that we've got for you. You'd be likely at a
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  travel because of the gig. Probably. Because there's, like I say, like a structure, there's
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  something to do and then afterwards you can enjoy yourself and be wherever you might be perhaps in
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  Ex-Homple Vance, the South of France, where you can just relax and hear the language. You know,
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  I miss hearing that particular slang and dialect of that South of France. My dad and I used to
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  kind of joke around in it, you know. I don't really get it. It goes over my head a little bit.
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  Exactly. And I, so it's like, we'll really be like, it's like a cockney maybe. Yeah, like a
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  thick Scottish brook. Yeah, yeah. Where if you're not absolutely fluent, you might, you know,
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  a lot of slides past, look over my head. It's very, like if you go and see that Manon
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  this source and Jean de Florent movie, oh my sweet Jesus. I mean, I, I, if I want to spend time
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  with my dad in my mind, I go and see that film. He looked a bit like even more time when he was
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  young. So for me, it's, yeah, he's hot. Oh, wow. When did he die? 2019. Oh, yeah, that's right,
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  you see. During the fires, like those awful fires. Christmas on New Year's Eve. Oh, no. Can
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  I make a joke about the fires and the ash or something? No. Okay, I won't do that. I'm glad I
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  didn't then that would have been embarrassing. And I really appreciate that. Yeah, that you're
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  welcome. You're more than welcome. How did Julia's and Mara's home delivery come about?
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  A lovely story. Because I was 37 and I was thinking, if I don't get a good gig by the time
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  I'm 40, even though I had some amazing gig. You had times running out. I'm going to stop, right?
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  And then I get rock whiz and rock whiz opened all these doors, like SBS, I started doing Eurovision,
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  all that great. And then Cordell Dick saw Zapruder, who made it. And just quickly tell people
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  who aren't Australian, what rock whiz is. Rock whiz is like was. Well, we still do it live.
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  It is. Like I say, yes. We've just done some shows. And basically, I am the host of two teams.
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  There are three contestants on each team. Some of them come from the audience and are absolute
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  rock brains. Two of them are well known musicians. And we have a band behind me. And it's like this
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  mad quiz night of rock and roll trivia, plus a band, each musician sings a song each. And a duet
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  you might not expect at the end. And we always a music aficionator. I read Rolling Stone cover to cover.
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  I had lots of albums. Yeah, of course. I went. I was probably more of a theater kid. I went to the
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  theater a lot. That was my jam. But when I did the audition for it, Brian Ankervers, who is one
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  of the producers of the show, and it's his idea and is almost like a co-host really when we do it
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  live, he did the audition. I did the auto cue stuff. And I'm literally out the door and he's gone,
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  hey, can we actually give you the quiz? And I'm going, no, no, they can actually give me a quiz on
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  music anyway. I've got 75%. I don't know if you got myself. That's pretty good. And but then it's
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  not about that. It's about can you control a room? Can you improvise with contestants? So at the call
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  back, they had two teams of some of the best comedians sitting there being contestants, which is
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  kind of even harder, because they all want to show off. The band was behind me and I'd never met
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  them before. Those beautiful men and filmed. And so I just remember thinking myself, Julia, if
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  there is a time to go for it now and improvise a little arse off, it'd be now. And I loved it,
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  had a great time. And they said to me later, you know, we needed someone who could take control
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  of a room. It's immaterial. How much you made my note? No, no, I know a lot more now. But,
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  yeah, I would say theatre was more my thing as a kid. But Rock is opened all these doors and with
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  with Eurovision Song Contest, there was a lot of interviewing backstage of people whose English
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  wasn't their first language. And I loved there was my favourite part of all. And anyway,
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  Cordell Jixau Zaprouda, C.J. said, the production company who make home delivery,
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  said, you know, you can like these interviews that call me in and say, and you really, you don't
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  know what you're going to get. And you're kind of really good with people who kind of speak English.
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  And you kind of figure it out. And we'd like to do an interview show with you.
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  And I thought, well, you know, Andrew Denton was part of that still. And I thought, well,
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  hasn't that interview shown been done? I don't want to do a show in a studio. I really don't. And
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  you know, we don't have a lot of people we can interview here without starting to kind of
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  repeat. So they came up with a concept, which was, well, what if you did it all outside,
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  you pick them up in a car, a car of their past, a car they remember, and you drive them to their,
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  one of their first homes or their home, and you maybe go to one of their schools. And yes,
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  it sounds traumatic. And sometimes. No, it sounds ingenious. Josh, it's ingenious.
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  And you know, I remember the first day of the first episode we ever filmed, and I was like, I don't
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  know how this is going to go down. I don't know if I can do this. But yeah, it's interesting,
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  isn't it? When you think you can't do something, or it's a bit beyond you, and you think, well,
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  come on, just do it. And it was really great. So we did five to begin with. And then we ended
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  up with 77 by the end. So it was, it was a really great team, amazing crew, three cameras at once.
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  So one camera on me, one camera on the guest, and one on the two of us so that we could literally
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  move through the day once without having to repeat anything except for maybe a couple of wives or
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  whatever. And really just enjoy the day and hope they kind of go along in a kind of chronological
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  order and enjoy the day too. That's good, isn't it? Having three cameras so you don't have to go,
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  okay, now can we just stop? Can you wipe the tears off? We're just going to go back,
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  cry again, as if you're seeing your old school for the very first time, and we'll you in the close
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  up this time, and then we'll do it again for a while. Well, for them, it shouldn't feel like they're
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  filming a drama. You know, it should feel like it has to only happen once, otherwise you just lose
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  any kind of momentum in the day. And we only would do them in a day. Oh my god, I can't believe it,
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  but yeah, we did it in one day. But that's why I felt natural as well. If it was if it was
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  staggered out too much, it wouldn't have had the same zing, the same pizazz. Yeah, and I kind of
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  my big learning curve was stop comment a bit like with radio, stop making noises that you're
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  agreeing with the other time, and also to shut up. Yeah, a lot of yeah, a lot of wow as well. Wow, wow, wow.
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  Really hated myself from a wows, but you got to let it go. Did they clip any wows from the cutting room
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  floor? Sometimes they'd send me the edit, and I go, oh, is there anyway? We need to do an edit just
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  of your wows and do a mashup. That'll go viral of just you saying wow from the outtakes of
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  Julia's Rose Home Delivery. That'd be great. Wow, wow. Because you don't want it because then you
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  go, well, you say, because sometimes it's what they say. It's wow worthy. And you'll go incredible,
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  you sound like an idiot if you do that. And then you shine, shine your face and go,
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  you want to say all how? Hmm, you just go. You just made that work. Yeah, wow.
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  Was it ever clunky with three cameras going around? What if you want to go somewhere where you
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  hadn't planned to? And you go, well, let's go and have a look at that briar patch. We would roughly
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  say, where do you want to go to the guest? They would know their playground better where they might
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  show us something that happens behind a building, or they might say, or they might say, I'll win the
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  gym in general. We'll follow the great thing is by the end. We tended to use the same crew,
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  but Gary Russell was our D.O.P. and he would work with two other camera people, but we would
• 18:07
  often to use the same three for a bunch of episodes. So they understood the ballet of it really.
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  I'm not crashing into each other. Yeah, that's good. But it was kind of nice when we interviewed
• 18:18
  people like Barry Cassidy just going, wow, you guys are great. This is really fast. You're doing
• 18:22
  it. You're like, thanks, Paz. Yeah. Barry Cassidy, for those overseas as an extraordinary
• 18:27
  journalist, a political reporter, and our retired, and used to be the ABC's chief political reporter.
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  Yep. And word for the book walk as he's one of our prime ministers, as he is
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  pre-secretary. Right. And then hosted a long-running weekend morning show called The Insiders.
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  Yeah. So as, you know, when somebody's in the biz goes, wow, you guys are really fast and
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  like I'm enjoying it and they're enjoying it. Yes. I mean, I think what was clever and what worked
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  about it and what I was terribly jealous of you for having nailed was an interview show that's
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  not an interview show, right? And I think a lot of shows have done that since, have tried to
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  whether it's back roads or like there's a lot of or even comedians and cars getting coffee. I mean,
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  I don't think Jerry Seinfeld was necessarily inspired by you, but the concept of doing an interview
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  show that's outside of the studio that's basically located out in the real world. I'm trying to
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  think of the next incarnation of that for me to do, but I can't figure out what it is. You'll find
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  it, but also too. We're taking them back to places that, I mean, as you would know, I don't know if
• 19:30
  your parents still live in your childhood home? No. No. So, and very few do. So our 77 guests are
• 19:38
  I mean, not even a not even 10, I think, not even five, maybe had a childhood home to visit.
• 19:46
  Well, I mean, you take someone back to their childhood home. It's emotional. Oh yeah. Maybe I
• 19:50
  need to do a show where I find children, take them to the home that they will live in in the future
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  and wow them with that. Sure. Maybe there's a show in really going to workplaces of the past.
• 20:02
  I didn't go to workplaces. But then they don't exist today. The workplaces of the past have been
• 20:08
  reformed. But maybe you do them up the way they used to be. Well, that's no one. Okay, you know
• 20:13
  what you've just done there? You've just made budget from it. I made the budget very expensive.
• 20:17
  Now we've got set the whole time. It was nothing to do. Yeah. You know, but didn't know. They did
• 20:23
  that whole the whole television show about where it's like you go back to the 1800s and it's
• 20:28
  like Australia was and you go into the, you know, and you see the way the metal working was being done.
• 20:34
  Well, that's where the budget went. That's where the whole budget went. I don't have any money for
• 20:37
  anything else. Yeah. And I mean, I knew it was going to end at some point. I didn't know when. We
• 20:41
  never know when our shows are going to end with Rock who's we never knew what was going to end.
• 20:45
  And you know, years later that Fox tells gone, can we do it? You go right out of the blue.
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  But with home delivery, it was in COVID when we were filming our 10 episodes and we only got
• 20:56
  eight done because we got shut down. And then we had a meeting with the ABC who make it or who
• 21:03
  commission it. And you know, when you can just tell, they're like, yeah, you know that feeling.
• 21:09
  Yeah, I do. And I said to them, you know what? I get it. And it's fine. But can you tell us that
• 21:14
  it will be our last one? And can we do a final show? Because I find it really, I don't think it's
• 21:20
  great. I don't think it's a generous thing to not go. Let's let them know when they feel so we can
• 21:25
  enjoy finishing it. We can end it. I said to them, I can go into publicity saying, I'm so proud
• 21:30
  of the 77 episodes. That's right. You know, you know, Tucker Carlson, when he got fired by
• 21:35
  local murder, I can well, the murder expert, Locklands in charge is Friday night show. There's a
• 21:40
  clip of it online. He's saying he's joking. He's bantering. He's like, I'll see you Monday.
• 21:45
  And he gets called into the boss's office. Yeah. It's not it's not a dignified way to end.
• 21:50
  Well, also too, I mean, I don't think you can really be loyal to a station anymore. I think
• 21:55
  there was a time in, I don't know, I guess any country can have it. But in Australia, it felt like
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  you are either what you worked for one channel. You were part of a family. Correct. And I realize
• 22:06
  now that's not true. And you're part of production company family. It's actually the product.
• 22:11
  You're even that. Yeah. Well, I've been really lucky. The Rockweez people and home delivery have
• 22:16
  been amazing. And it's commute. You got to communicate with them. And they're real people.
• 22:21
  They're good people. But I just think that I did flirt for a minute there with thinking,
• 22:28
  oh, there is loyalty to a station. I do feel part of this family. No, I don't.
• 22:32
  It's interesting that you say that the meeting with the commissioning director at the ABC was a bit
• 22:37
  like, hmm, because I've also found that when they're not into it, it can go the other way.
• 22:43
  Like a lot of auditions that I've done. And dad used to say this as well about acting auditions.
• 22:48
  You do the audition. They go, thanks so much, fabulous, great to see you. Thanks so much for coming
• 22:53
  by. Great job. You didn't get it. But if they go, hmm, okay, thank you. Then they're thinking
• 23:02
  about you. What I love about Brian Cranston from Breaking Bad's advice for actors, it went
• 23:10
  around the internet for a while. And I, it's not that I got tickets on myself, but I've always
• 23:15
  thought this. He was like, your job as an actor is not to go in there and plead for a job or
• 23:20
  seduce them whatever getting to a job. It's just go in, do the thing leave. And I don't know what,
• 23:25
  instinctively I learned, and you know, we are making this podcast around the corner from
• 23:29
  Mullin as it used to be. A main play suite all have to audition after acting school and all that.
• 23:34
  I remember thinking, I don't like how auditioning makes me feel. So I think my solution is, I'll
• 23:39
  always have something to do before and something to do after. Because I don't want it to be the
• 23:44
  main thing of the day. And if in this country, you're only audition, you know, once or twice a week.
• 23:52
  I remember lovely friend Murray Bartlett, who now has an incredible career overseas. We did a
• 23:56
  short film together. Yeah, people don't know him. He was in White Lotus in the first season
• 24:01
  playing the hotel manager. Last of us. He's in that episode too. And in that show too. And Murray,
• 24:09
  when he first went to America, and he was living in New York, and he said, I'm not getting
• 24:13
  heaps of work, but I feel like a working actor because I'm auditioning all the time. So I'm
• 24:17
  getting better at auditioning. I'm getting stronger. I'm getting braver, more confident.
• 24:23
  So the whole audition thing, of course, they're going to smile and say, you know, amazing
• 24:28
  never heard from them again. So I would just go, it'll be a happy accident if I get it if I don't.
• 24:34
  Funny about that anecdote about the pace of auditioning. It is trickier in a medium-sized
• 24:40
  market like Australia. As I remember going to New York when I first got an agent for television
• 24:44
  hosting and going to five or six auditions every day for some pilot, for a reality show,
• 24:53
  some concept, for something or other, a corporate video, a new food show, whatever it might be.
• 25:01
  And you're right. It becomes just part of your life. It becomes that's what your job is.
• 25:06
  Your job is not booking the gig. Your job is going to the auditions. And yeah, my agent also
• 25:12
  said the same thing. Like if the feedback is good and if you get callbacks, then that is the job.
• 25:17
  That's all it is. Because once you're on the short list, then the reasons why they might go with
• 25:22
  you versus the other people on the short list almost always have nothing to do with you anyway.
• 25:26
  They have something to do with whatever the gender balance is going to be or whatever they want.
• 25:31
  You know, you weren't exactly the right jigsaw pace because they've got a bunch of different
• 25:35
  jigsaw pieces. But you did come first in your jigsaw pace lane. And so you did win. If you
• 25:42
  impressed them, then you won. I mean, the reality too is it's the only job. I don't know, the only
• 25:49
  job where you have to do that regularly to get work. So if I mean, I part of me does believe,
• 25:56
  if you're not built for that, then maybe it's not a great idea. Absolutely. You know, I just,
• 26:00
  I don't think you can sugarcoat an audition. I really don't think you can. And I went to the
• 26:06
  Victorian College of the Arts for my acting training for three is it's in Melbourne. And I always felt
• 26:12
  like they were very honest about don't you wait for that phone to ring, make your own work,
• 26:16
  keep your connections, do other things. You got to be self-sufficient in it. And I quite like
• 26:22
  the freedom of that. I quite like the creativity of that. Now, if you're not getting any work,
• 26:28
  sure, not great. But then I might break my heart is how many friends I have who are performers
• 26:35
  who maybe should have stopped 10 years in. And when they were still young enough to retrain and be
• 26:41
  because something else amazing because I think acting training prepares you for a bazillion great
• 26:47
  things. And I think performing, unfortunately, is one of those jobs that if you choose to leave,
• 26:54
  people go, I did not work out. I just want to punch those people. Yes, agreed, agreed. But then
• 27:00
  there's also the counter case of the person, the friend who's now 55, who's driving ubers and
• 27:07
  waiting tables, but is actually an actor. And you know, keeps saying, well, Nick Nalti got his
• 27:13
  break when he was 52 or something. But if you can hang in there fine, but it's when you can see
• 27:18
  that the person is starting to get beaten by it. And I just want to be that friend that goes,
• 27:25
  let it go, fly away, go and reinvent yourself. You are so good at so many. You're such a brilliant
• 27:32
  communicator. I'm not saying all actors are brilliant communicators, but a lot of them are,
• 27:36
  they're good listeners, they look at, they study people, they study character. And I don't know,
• 27:44
  I just think, I just think it's hard to give yourself permission to leave.
• 27:48
  Were you superstitious about auditions in any way that I've always had an
• 27:53
  antipathy, which I think I inherited from my dad about talking about auditions. You know, it always
• 27:58
  rubs me the wrong way when people are like, you know, oh, I've got an audition for bloody blind,
• 28:02
  like, stop talking. Don't tell me about the audition before you're done the audition.
• 28:06
  Yeah. That's the job. You go to the audition. You forget about it. You put the audition behind you.
• 28:10
  Yeah. I mean, it doesn't matter whether or not you get it or not. The game is to keep going
• 28:14
  on the auditions and keep doing your craft. Like, don't tell me about this great thing that might
• 28:18
  happen. Wait until the ink is on the contract, baby. Absolutely. I want to hear about it.
• 28:23
  It's not even superstition. It's more, I don't want to get excited about something that might not
• 28:28
  happen. And I mean, that's a self-protective thing, I guess, maybe, too. You go, I just want to
• 28:32
  protect myself and not be hurt in case I don't get it. But I remember I auditioned for a sketch
• 28:37
  comedy show he called Totally Full Frontal. It used to be fast forward. Which you ended up doing.
• 28:41
  Yeah, yeah. And we did the final, I did the final two years and I went to the audition
• 28:46
  and you had to bring some characters and some impersonations. And I just really prepared.
• 28:53
  And I even brought like a bag of like bits of costume. I'm so embarrassed now. And I remember
• 28:58
  walking to the audition going, no one else has a bag of kind of little props, but I thought,
• 29:02
  no, I'm going to just do it. And I did the best audition ever. Like, it wasn't there for half
• 29:07
  an hour. They were laughing. I did Jan event. I think it's a character. I don't know what I can't
• 29:12
  remember what else I did as an impression or whatever. And as I was leaving, one of the producers
• 29:18
  said, no, you won't be able to, you won't be doing your own material. And I said, yeah, yeah,
• 29:23
  that's all right. I'm actually not known for it. I've written some for this. But I, you know,
• 29:26
  they went, no, we can't promise you your own material. I'm like, yeah, I know. I know. And if we
• 29:30
  had this kind of weird sort of talk and I left going, I don't think I got that. And I rang my
• 29:36
  agent and said, I just did, I think one of the best auditions I've ever done. I put a lot of work
• 29:41
  in and I don't think I'm going to get it. And I didn't. But I got it the year later. Right.
• 29:46
  So the homework had been done. And your little bag of goodies worked eventually.
• 29:52
  Did you have to re audition? No. No, it was really nice. Interesting. But I didn't know that.
• 29:58
  So there's a dumb belief in yourself for a dumb kind of, I don't know. But also it's funny that
• 30:03
  you looked at the other auditioners and thought, well, why don't they have the one who's out of place
• 30:07
  for having prepared better? You know, it's like I remember, I mean, give it everything you've got.
• 30:13
  I remember, you know, I remember having conversations with people who were like, well,
• 30:17
  I don't have a lot of time or if it put into this audition. So I guess I'll, but I'll go anyway,
• 30:22
  I'm like, well, then make the time and effort. Stay up later. I know. But Dad was in a show,
• 30:28
  I keep telling him that, Dad, but yeah. But can I just say how much I love your dad?
• 30:30
  Thank you. I just adore him. I adore his work. I've seen his theatre work. And I mean,
• 30:36
  he's just a special one. Oh, that's always been a very special one.
• 30:39
  So he got a, he, there was a, there was a mini series of South Pacific with Harry Connick,
• 30:44
  Jr. and Glenn Close. And there was a character of a luxurious French bad guy. Yeah.
• 30:54
  And Dad went into the, because it was shooting and, you know, someone in the South Pacific. So
• 30:58
  they were casting all of the non-aylists cast from Australia, because it's easier to get them
• 31:03
  there and cheaper than a casting American, SAG, paying SAG wages. And Dad went in and had,
• 31:09
  I remember him going to the audition with a piece of tin foil over one of his teeth to make him,
• 31:15
  to make it look like he's got a silver missing tooth, right? And I thought, why are you doing that?
• 31:21
  They're going to go for you on the basis of your performance, not on the basis of your look.
• 31:24
  They know that the makeup people are going to be able to do the look, but he got the job.
• 31:28
  You know, how many other people didn't show up with a letterless silver tooth?
• 31:32
  But what it shows, too, is fun, character, playfulness, giving a red hot crack. Yeah.
• 31:38
  You know, I think the more you can relax in an audition, the more fun you can have in audition,
• 31:44
  the better. But have you ever been the reader opposite? No, I'm not, I'm only only practicing
• 31:51
  with friends. So a couple of friends in line have done it. And it's a revelation because
• 31:57
  they say people, a lot of people come in and seduce. They come in with the action to seduce
• 32:04
  everyone in the room. Now it's true that performance is about charisma to a degree and a bit.
• 32:10
  And by seduce, I mean charm. I'm not saying people take the pants off. But that sort of charm,
• 32:16
  your best behavior at any party or your best self in you. And not every role can be about that.
• 32:22
  Or do they do it to a degree and then they get into character and do whatever. And she said,
• 32:25
  men often didn't know their lines, which I find infuriating. Women did. And the people that went
• 32:32
  in not caring, people loved. They wanted to see them again because they hadn't given them quite
• 32:37
  enough. They were kind of mysterious. So look, I'm not saying there's not game playing in auditioning,
• 32:42
  of course, there is. But I'll tell you this. I remember once going to Mulleners around the corner
• 32:46
  to audition for two hands, the film, which is still, I think, one of the most glorious films of
• 32:53
  Heath Ledger's work, Rose Burns work. This was Rose's big break, essentially. Maybe Heath Ledger's
• 32:59
  big break, as well. And Australian movie. Teenage romantic comedy. And crime. Like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
• 33:07
  I think I was a young child when this movie came up. As in desperate people doing desperate things.
• 33:14
  And you get a vision of Bondi, which is very different. And it's a great movie.
• 33:21
  I'll go back and see it. Yeah, yeah, it's great. Anyway, I auditioned for the sister in that
• 33:25
  the older sister, the beautiful Susie Portagot. She was amazing. Love Susie. Love Susie. But I was waiting
• 33:32
  to go in and Ben Mellison turned up to audition for one of the characters, one of the leads, the older
• 33:38
  brother. And I didn't know I'm a very one. I was like, hello, hello. He was a famous actor at the
• 33:42
  time. Yes, yeah, he would have done some stuff, definitely. And then he disappeared into the
• 33:48
  bathroom. And he came back and he had kind of makeup and mud. Something looked like mud all
• 33:53
  over his face. Now, the role was of the older brother who is spoiler alert dead and talks from
• 34:00
  under the ground, from under the grave. And he did it. No, he didn't get the role. But I just
• 34:05
  thought, well, if Ben Mellison can put mud all over his face to go in to prove something and get
• 34:10
  in there, well, I can take my little bag of props. I like it. And the on the question of sort of,
• 34:15
  you know, whether or not you want, you come in with an energy of wanting the job and trying to
• 34:20
  seduce them and hoping that you get it and so on versus having the fuck you energy of like,
• 34:24
  I don't need this. I also remember an adage that I always found helpful, which was, you know,
• 34:30
  people go into auditions thinking that the people who are there auditioning for have all the
• 34:36
  power and that they don't. But actually, you have the power because they have a problem,
• 34:42
  which is that they haven't cast this role yet. Yes. And they're looking for every opportunity
• 34:47
  to find a great person to fill the role. You to stand to lose nothing because you already
• 34:52
  don't have the job. So you're a, you know, you're a zero sum level anyway. Worst thing that can
• 34:57
  happen is you revert back to the position you're in before the audition, which is fine. Whereas
• 35:03
  they're the ones who actually, if they can't fill this role, end up with a show without a,
• 35:07
  without a good performance in it. So have the mindset that you're coming into solve their problem.
• 35:12
  And make it like fun's not the right word, but like be prepared and do the work so that when
• 35:17
  you go in there, it's easy. Yeah. Like don't, I would often think about what will the room look like.
• 35:22
  I'd sometimes go through different scenarios. I'm ahead and go, what if there's three people?
• 35:26
  What if the director isn't there? What if he is there? Or he, look at me saying, hey,
• 35:30
  you don't want to mean like try and, if you imagine different scenarios, you might not be
• 35:34
  a surprise or disappointed or whatever. But look, it's, it's a high risk gain. One of the problems
• 35:41
  with having fun is that casting agents relentlessly send you huge sheets full of sides at 8 p.m.
• 35:49
  the day before the audition. You have to like just send it five days before.
• 35:54
  Oh, I mean, but everything happens at 5 p.m. before everyone goes home now. It drives me insane.
• 35:58
  So stupid. But they're like, don't worry about it. You don't have to learn all the words.
• 36:01
  And you're like, yeah, but to be relaxed and have fun, I do need to know the words. So I'm not
• 36:05
  thinking about the words. I know you don't care if I say the wrong word, but I will be caring about
• 36:09
  whether I say the wrong word because I won't know what the word is. But also I would say, it's just a
• 36:14
  disrespect for what we're expected to do when I'm telling their sorry. I mean, you know, I've
• 36:19
  gone into castings where there's just the woman who's the casting person and she's acting opposite
• 36:24
  you and she is terrible. You sort of want to go, oh, can I phone a friend and bring me in there.
• 36:30
  Literally, they're off the road. You are, you're not even trying. Yeah. Because hey, guess what?
• 36:36
  You're not an actor. Who? Is she not going to pay for someone? You're going to give someone
• 36:40
  amazing two days work of pay to be reader opposite you. I mean, the disrespect,
• 36:46
  how am I supposed to take it seriously if you're not? It really, and I think that is also another
• 36:51
  thing that starts to burn people in, I mean, that's what they've been, you know, striking for it's
• 36:57
  sag. It's a bit like you need us, but you don't treat us very well or you don't keep up with the
• 37:02
  times. What will AI mean? What does it all mean, you know, in terms of though, you know, our image,
• 37:06
  in our words and our voice out. It's, I don't know, it's, and sometimes I think acting can be one
• 37:13
  of those jobs where you start to go, if I had done any other gig for 20 years, I'd be maybe better
• 37:19
  regarded in my job or in my world. Maybe I'd be higher up whatever that means.
• 37:25
  You don't want to keep doing it because it makes you feel shit about yourself.
• 37:28
  Hmm. I want to down. Hi everyone. Welcome to uncomfortable conversations with Josh's Eps.
• 37:36
  Your name and our, my name's almost the same. So similar. I love it. We should have got married and
• 37:43
  been Julia's Amiro's Eps. Josh's Amiro's Eps. That's a good one. Isn't that good, Josh Julia?
• 37:50
  That's a mouthful, I like it. Julia Josh's Amiro's Eps. Awesome. You did a lot of improv as well
• 37:54
  as acting, which is another thing. I mean, presumably that's the one of the facilitators of having
• 38:02
  spontaneous attitude towards both auditioning and then actually doing the call back and nailing it
• 38:08
  for various shows. Completely, you know, theatre sports, which is not the only form of improvisation,
• 38:13
  of course, but in Sydney. The most popular in Australia, I would say. Yeah, and in Sydney.
• 38:17
  For American listeners, it's short form. Americans look down on a bit, I think. Of course I do.
• 38:22
  And I understand because I'm just a bit of a kid. It's a bit gaggy short form improv. Like,
• 38:26
  here's a song about the thing that you've just suggested. But I mean, you know, initially those,
• 38:31
  they were, they were seen based game, but ways of doing short scenes in short amount, short amount
• 38:38
  of time, in a short amount of time to explore different things. It's whose line is that anyway?
• 38:42
  Yeah, yeah, exactly. Let's say it's whose line. But for a while, they're in Sydney. It was
• 38:47
  pretty big. I mean, I remember doing a grand final at the opera house in the concert hall. Wow.
• 38:51
  That's how big it was. Packed. Wow. I did want it, Belvoir. Oh, yeah. Without him Spencer and
• 38:58
  fun. Yeah. Yeah. It's Cavali and me. Yeah. Rob Carlton. Rob Carlton was there. He was our
• 39:04
  improv mentor. Yeah. And Ed Cavali and Rachel Corbett and I were on a trio. And Rob was our
• 39:14
  little light. I learned a lot. I learned so much improvising and you meet great people and I really
• 39:20
  think that learning all those principles of saying yes, et cetera. I'm great. And I, it is
• 39:27
  no, I'm absolutely certain the confidence I have as a host has come from waitressing many
• 39:32
  years and from improv. And, and I think a good interviewer is an improviser because you have to
• 39:39
  shut up and listen, you know, they say that when you're in a scene with someone when you're
• 39:42
  improvising and I actually prefer long, long form, I love long form, but you know, all you needs
• 39:48
  what you have in front of you. So you've got an actor in front of you, what they're wearing,
• 39:52
  what they do. You can do anything. There's nothing to be frightened of, you know. Whereas people
• 39:57
  try and invent stuff that's not there, you know, but I, my favorite show was a show called Spontaneous
• 40:03
  Broadway where you present as a character. So you do come on as a character. And the premise of
• 40:10
  the show is that you're these out of work actors. So I was kind of a non-genue. And you've got a
• 40:17
  little story to come out and tell in a funny way. So you're a character, but then the audience
• 40:21
  writes titles of songs that come from musicals that haven't been written. And you find one that
• 40:27
  you like and you get up and you don't tell them what the title is yet, but you back story it
• 40:32
  and go, well, of course, this is from the musical, whatever, and you make it up. And then the gag or
• 40:37
  the kind of reveal is what you'll say. You'll say, I'm going to do this song about whatever,
• 40:41
  and it's set in this country and blah, blah, blah. And then you give the reveal of the title
• 40:44
  and hopefully it's funny. And you've, you know, you've been offstage looking at it a bit, you've
• 40:47
  got a bit of time. And then you improvise the song. So you said to the musician, beautiful John
• 40:52
  Thorne as our musician, say, Johnny, I think it's something in a kind of a blues style and he'd start
• 40:57
  something and go, but from Germany, in a minor key, thank you, Johnny. And he'd play that and you
• 41:03
  be there and you get to improvise your song. And we all would do on each. There's like four of us.
• 41:08
  And then the audience would vote on which full musical they'd like to see in the second half.
• 41:12
  And then you'd improvise the whole musical. And now when it worked, it was delicious. When it
• 41:17
  didn't work, it was okay. But it was never shit. You know, because, you know, we had these
• 41:25
  characters to fall back on a bit and stuff. But I missed that show mentally. We did an Edinburgh
• 41:30
  fringe. I mean, we barely had anyone come, you know, because there's only 9,000 shows there.
• 41:34
  But yeah, we did it for a long time in Melbourne. And the opera house in Sydney was great.
• 41:39
  On the point of, you know, having everything that you need right in front of you in improv,
• 41:43
  and, you know, just listening and that sort of skill, I was when I was in New York, I did,
• 41:49
  I was invited to do, to be the monologist at ASCAT, which ASCAT is the long-running upright
• 41:57
  citizen brigade thing where the Saturday night live guys will do a long form, a harrowed,
• 42:04
  basically a harrowed is a form of long form improv. And these are the guys who basically created
• 42:09
  it in conjunction with Second City in Chicago. And it starts with a minus celebrity or friend of
• 42:16
  the show coming on and telling an anecdote from their life about something that someone,
• 42:21
  someone gives a prompt. People give a few prompts from the audience and that's supposed to spark
• 42:25
  something. And you tell a four or five minute story. And then the subsequent hour long show is
• 42:30
  based on your story, right? And so someone was a fan of a show that I was doing in New York,
• 42:36
  the TV show on half post live. I was invited to do it. And Amy Pollard was one of the,
• 42:41
  who was one of the founding principles of opera citizens brigade, was one of the performers.
• 42:46
  And she comes up to me before the show. Of course, I'm so totally starstruck because I love
• 42:50
  Amy Pollard. Of course you do. And she says, have you got a monologue in mind and in the green room?
• 42:56
  And I was like, I mean, I've got a few ideas. And she was like, forget them. Don't, don't,
• 43:02
  it never works. She was like, just empty your mind and just listen to the, uh, to the prompts.
• 43:07
  And it's such a good piece of advice. You go out there, people give you three people,
• 43:14
  give you three words. And even if it takes you like 20 seconds to kind of let them sink in and
• 43:23
  come up with something, that's fine. An audience can sit there for 20 seconds. Yes. They can look at
• 43:29
  you doing nothing. That's all right. Yeah. People are patient. Yeah. You know, have faith that
• 43:35
  your little noggin is going to make some kind of connection and come up with something.
• 43:39
  The good thing is the monologue doesn't have to be hilarious. It can just be mildly amusing. And
• 43:43
  then it's their job to do the funny stuff. But the sort of the audacity of allowing yourself to
• 43:50
  be in a space of total receptiveness and blankness and that that's actually the pathway to great
• 43:57
  content rather than trying proactively to generate great content is a kind of paradox is the
• 44:03
  beautiful paradox of improv. And also too, the audacity to allow yourself to be on stage and go,
• 44:10
  I don't have to be funny. I don't have to do anything. And you know what? The audience doesn't
• 44:14
  need it either. They will be watched. Alas, off to be watched. Yeah. And yeah, I feel, I love
• 44:22
  that feeling in an audience when you can see them. They're there for that. They're not afraid
• 44:26
  they don't need it all. They don't need that sort of constant tickling all the time. Yeah.
• 44:31
  There was a team when I was playing theatre sports in Sydney called Once in a Lifetime,
• 44:36
  Brett Wood, Baroness Wood, Marie Fey. And they would be funny sometimes,
• 44:43
  but every now and then they had the guts to go serious, to go esoteric, to go weird.
• 44:49
  I mean, it would take your breath away because they just listened to each other, looked at each other
• 44:56
  and didn't panic. Wow, there's a lot of panic going on stage at once in the improv.
• 45:00
  Fun too. Good to see a good old panic. It can be deadly though. Because they're in the audience
• 45:05
  stuff. So I think, oh no, oh no, you don't want pity. No, but that's what makes the audience
• 45:09
  realise that this is high stakes. That sometimes actually to allow yourself to be watched,
• 45:15
  to allow yourself to listen and try and build something is the risk. And sometimes it doesn't work.
• 45:19
  And that's where you fail happily. Yeah. Oh, well, we're back. Yeah, that's right,
• 45:23
  but the audience won't necessarily. Well, they will because you might do it two or three times.
• 45:26
  I mean, usually you get a couple of goes during a night. You don't want to shot it. So the audience
• 45:32
  will go, oh, he couldn't do it that first time, but wow, by the end, he really knew what he was
• 45:36
  doing and sure there's always moments in the foyer people going, you weren't very good at the
• 45:40
  beginning. You're like, oh, you don't get it. But you know, there's trying to explain to anyone
• 45:46
  a performance what you've just done on stage. And that's all right. Sometimes it isn't great as
• 45:51
  well. Yeah, it's just life, which is life, right? Have you, this is off topic, but have you heard
• 45:57
  Amy Poller's new podcast? No, see more. No, it's basically in Esther Perrell. Oh my god.
• 46:04
  And it is with him with improvisers. Wow. They improvise it. And it is absolutely the most
• 46:11
  delicious sandwich. Did she put on Esther Perrell? No, no, she's American. That would be too much.
• 46:16
  But she's always see more about that. And that you have to call the doctor with a question mark
• 46:21
  because she might not be a doctor. Look, I want to spoil it for you just enjoy. I will hear.
• 46:27
  I will improvising geniuses just in conversation around a table like this, just improvising. Right.
• 46:33
  And it's heaven on a stick. I love it. I can't wait to hear it. The first time I ever heard
• 46:37
  Esther Perrell, she's a relationship therapist for people who don't know her. It was a clip
• 46:44
  and it was it was a guy who had cheated on his wife. And he was saying, you know, I mean,
• 46:51
  I just feel like, you know, that was that we've been together 17 years. I mean, that was one time
• 46:56
  about, you know, I don't get counted for all the times. I didn't do it. And the first words I
• 47:02
  ever heard Esther Perrell say were, okay, here's what's going to happen right now. You're going to
• 47:06
  shut the fuck up. She didn't. She did. And you're going to stop talking right now. But not in a
• 47:13
  German accent, I should have meant she's more French. Is Riley, isn't she? No, she's from Belgium.
• 47:17
  Is she? Yeah. She doesn't have French accent though. Yes, she does. It's a very strong, a matter.
• 47:22
  Really? When she was here, it's very strong. Maybe I need to listen to more Esther Perrell. Yeah,
• 47:25
  it's pretty great. I mean, I was addicted to Esther Perrell. I listened to all of that. I loved it.
• 47:29
  Really? Because she just, because she's very straight. Because it's only one session, one session,
• 47:35
  she gets in there. And they great. They're great. So basically, it's an actual recording of her
• 47:40
  real couples therapy. Yeah. They're not secretly taped. No, they'll probably be in breach of
• 47:47
  several several codes. You mean the camera? That's not camera. It's all recorded. It's all audio.
• 47:54
  Oh, no, I think she's great. I think what she does is fantastic. But Amy Pollett with her
• 48:00
  absolute laser, laser, comic observation. Fabulous. And so coming back to home delivery, then you did
• 48:08
  you, they said they told you it was going to be the last season. And then your last guest on
• 48:13
  home delivery was yourself. Oh, it's hideous. Was it? A bit. How did you do it? How did you come
• 48:19
  up with this hair brain scheme? I didn't. You know, they were like, would you ever, would you
• 48:24
  ever think of doing it, you know, back at episode 20? Yeah. Never thinking it would end. Yeah.
• 48:28
  And then when it was ending, they're like, we should do it. And I said, yeah, but I mean, if
• 48:32
  Russell Crowe, all of a sudden said, yes, we do him, wouldn't we wouldn't do me? Yeah.
• 48:37
  And Russell didn't say yes. Russell. Look, I guess it was an interesting exercise to do. And
• 48:48
  I had some lovely interviewers who are on the channel that we work on. And for example,
• 48:55
  Mark Humphreys, who is a comedian, a political kind of comedian on ABC, he speaks French. And so
• 49:01
  part of me wanted to speak French with him at the school I went to. I went to a French primary
• 49:06
  school in Australia. And but we kind of lost our way. And I didn't speak enough French. And
• 49:12
  because it was hard for them to direct it and know what was going on. And I was going to subtitle
• 49:15
  it all. And I was just one of that whole thing to be in French and didn't quite work out that way.
• 49:21
  But also, I don't want everybody to know a lot about me in the world. I just don't,
• 49:26
  right? You don't want to mean like I don't, I don't do lots of interviews. I've never, never
• 49:30
  invited people into my home. Initially, because I just just think, because I don't think,
• 49:39
  this idea that if you're in the public eye, you should share a lot about yourself. Sure. But
• 49:47
  then it's gone. It's just gone. It's like, it's like, it's like junk food. It's gone. I don't want
• 49:52
  it to go. But then in the lot, because things, I was well known before internet and social media
• 49:57
  and all that. So I don't need to use it. I don't want to be on it. I don't particularly want
• 50:01
  to entertain it. And now even more, it's like, oh my god, the list is out there. The better.
• 50:05
  Jesus. Do you dislike the idea of the existing, this avatar of Julia's Amaro,
• 50:12
  which is the, you know, which people have all kinds of assumptions about that it doesn't necessarily
• 50:16
  map onto the real Julia's Amaro. Is that it? Well, I mean, at least with the home delivery,
• 50:21
  I felt like I, at least, was had a little bit of not control, but it's you're whatever you're,
• 50:25
  whatever's coming out of your mouth. Right. What I mean is then some critic takes one thing
• 50:30
  that you said, they take it out of context, they're critical about, again, don't be a performer,
• 50:34
  sure, don't be a performer, you know, we're in the public eye, then you go, well, maybe that was
• 50:38
  always going to happen, sure. But, um, but I think you could control it. I think you can choose to
• 50:43
  not do things. I don't know. I mean, you might be one can control it by being, well, just don't
• 50:48
  talk, don't get interviewed. That's right. But that's Anadine. Why? Well, I mean, put it this way,
• 50:55
  you could just, yes, if you, all you do is say no to interviews, then that's not Anadine. But
• 51:00
  if you find yourself in a situation where you're talking about something and all you're ever doing
• 51:06
  is, is having your mind to be on a loop of, is what I'm about to say potentially take,
• 51:12
  could be taken out of context. And is this going to get me in trouble? No, it's not that it's more
• 51:18
  that, um, there are other people in your life who've chosen not to be involved in what you do.
• 51:23
  And I just think, I actually think privacy is quite a lovely thing, actually. Yes. And, um,
• 51:29
  I think sometimes, I sometimes think I don't ask people enough about what's going on their
• 51:35
  private life because I kind of think it's private. But of course, we live in a world people like,
• 51:38
  ask me, um, let me tell you what's happening in life. You know, um, and I'm a good listener,
• 51:44
  like I'll listen, but I just think you want to do interviews with people that you think you'll get,
• 51:50
  I'm doing this because I think you're fun. And I enjoy listening to your show every day. No,
• 51:55
  I really do enjoy. That's right. Um, what should I do better? We can make this a therapy session
• 52:00
  about me less Billy Joel. It's really my only night. It's my only night. I don't choose the song
• 52:07
  list. I choose the song out of the song list as if that is given to me. So Billy Joel happens to
• 52:13
  be there every time. Billy Joel happens to be there sometimes. I'm delighted. I love him too. I'm not
• 52:18
  saying, but it really does give me the giggles. I have. He really loves Billy Joel, doesn't he?
• 52:25
  Sometimes it's a choice between, uh, like, you know, we're really scraping the ball. Sure. Okay.
• 52:30
  Sometimes I'll have, um, Neil Diamond. Sure. Uh, Billy Joel. Sure. Uh, uh, uh, uh, uh,
• 52:37
  Gina Lollabrigida. I don't know who that is. Uh, and then, and then I'll, and then it'll be
• 52:42
  we'll be Joel. Obviously. Sure. Of course. Of course. I'm piano man. No, you know, and look,
• 52:47
  sure, you can do that whole. I mean, could play New York State of mind a bit more. Yeah. But that's
• 52:51
  probably not on the list. It's not on the list. It doesn't come in. Who's arranging this list? What
• 52:56
  team of monkeys do they have typing away on a million typewriters producing the list? And also
• 53:01
  this thing of, I mean, people don't want to hear music on the out. Yeah, they do. Sure. Why not?
• 53:06
  That's fine. One an hour is good. Maybe two. I'd go two. Two would be great. Two gives me more
• 53:10
  time off. I mean, I have friends who work on commercial radio stations, tell me about it,
• 53:15
  who earn literally 10 times what I earn. And they're, they play five songs an hour and they have
• 53:22
  four ad breaks. They're doing a grand total of 12 minutes of content per hour. I'm doing 55
• 53:28
  minutes an hour. But, but here's the thing. So I did commercial radio for two years with the
• 53:32
  beautiful Jonathan Coleman, who is no longer one of this, my beautiful Jono. And discovered
• 53:38
  exactly what we're saying. Oh, my God, we're here for two hours shift and we literally talk
• 53:42
  for 20 minutes if we're lucky. Yeah. And then I covered once for ABC radio for two weeks where,
• 53:47
  like you say, you're literally doing 50 minutes an hour. Well, which is the more interesting?
• 53:51
  Which is the more fun? What? Which is the more engaging? Yes. Give me the two. Mine is more
• 53:56
  interesting and exhausting. Crimea River. So when did you come to national because you were doing
• 54:08
  your acting and you were doing your improv and you're a professional theatrical, you know,
• 54:12
  you were doing Shakespeare and shit, right? In high schools. Okay. In high pits till the job.
• 54:16
  And I got $800 a week in my bank every week. Absolutely. More than the ABC will pay you. And then
• 54:23
  was it good news week where you actually, that was a panel show based on have I got news for you,
• 54:28
  which is a British panel show, although it wasn't based on it because I think they got sued for not
• 54:33
  you know, intellectual property and whatnot. But it was it was wildly popular when I was growing
• 54:39
  up against in the 90s. Yeah. Is that the era? I got a go on it and I was very unknown and that's
• 54:44
  thanks to Ted Robinson, who's a wonderful TV director here. His wife Ann Robinson was an agent
• 54:51
  or worked in that in casting and she got me the gig she get me in which was really nice. But um,
• 54:56
  it's just it's been a real up and down, you know, you'd get Bell Shakespeare in schools,
• 55:00
  good news week, nothing. Then it'd go up again and you might get um, uh, ads for 10 years,
• 55:08
  I did one big out of a year. And then and that was just great money in the bank. I'm like,
• 55:12
  oh, God, you know, that's that for six months. And then waitress and then you don't do totally
• 55:17
  for frontal and then nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing, like years. And then I walked away from
• 55:24
  performance and went teaching English as a second language overseas and just did other things and
• 55:29
  then thought, oh, who am I kidding? I just needed a big break or come home. I'll do it. But I
• 55:33
  had to move to Melbourne to get that work. And it was the Rock Wizard edition. That's the that's
• 55:37
  really that the neurovision, then home delivery, you know, they just built on each other. I did a
• 55:43
  play. I haven't done that many plays. I'm someone who likes to do something once and then go,
• 55:48
  do I need to do another quiz show over again? No. Do I need to do a musical ever again? No,
• 55:52
  I've done one. Do I ever need to do it? You know, you kind of and that's what I'm saying. I'm
• 55:56
  starting to get a tiny bit, a tiny bit like everything. I feel like I've done it, not done
• 56:02
  everything, but I know how my job that I do works. So now I want to, you know, without sounding like,
• 56:08
  I mean, but it is my third act coming up. I mean, face it, I'm 56 and it'll before I know
• 56:13
  it'll be 60 and what, you've got 20 good summers left if you're lucky. Oh, it's worrying when you put
• 56:18
  it like that, isn't it? It is. And so I go, well, what else would you do? You have a certain amount
• 56:24
  of influence now. I'm very, I'm very taken by what Sarah Wilson's done and you've interviewed her
• 56:30
  on this show. Love Sarah. And she's maybe spoken to you on her. Yeah, it was actually the same episode.
• 56:36
  We do cross over pod. She really saw her as I really saw mine. It was just great. And she's really,
• 56:40
  I just love how she thinks and she's really put herself out there. And I'm just, I'm just
• 56:47
  interested in how other people are doing different things. And so at the moment, while I have a
• 56:51
  little bit of a following influence or whatever you want to call it, what can I do with it?
• 56:57
  What do you do one of these? Yes. Yes. She says it as a pool of exhaustion.
• 57:06
  Right. I don't really want to talk. But very thought of it. Yeah, I feel like I've interviewed so
• 57:11
  many people now, Josh. I'm still more and lots of people. There's like 8 billion.
• 57:17
  I mean, I was interested in doing a home delivery with people that weren't famous.
• 57:20
  Yeah, that'd be great. No. Maybe that could be my show. That could be your show.
• 57:26
  Because there were people out there doing extraordinary things. And you'll find them. You know what I mean?
• 57:31
  You'll find them. So, but the Abyss said no to that. Well, not that I officially pitched it,
• 57:36
  but I used to say it all the time. So I don't know. I'm just, I'm taking a little bit of time off
• 57:41
  and having you think about what that might be and what it looks like. And it doesn't mean I'll never
• 57:44
  perform again, but it's just, I'm not getting the kick out of it like I used to. And it doesn't
• 57:50
  not that you have to get a kick out of everything that you do, but I, it's not challenging or something.
• 57:55
  I don't know. I don't know. And when you're feeling this kind of, oh, and, and easy and you want
• 58:00
  to move around a bit, I think you should listen to it and kind of figure it out. What would be challenging?
• 58:10
  Apply myself to learning something new, maybe? I don't know what that is. I look to people,
• 58:17
  I mean, not directly Sam Elson, necessarily, who runs a thing called a company called Seafarers,
• 58:24
  but basically he was in fashion for a long time. I mean, obviously, interest in the world,
• 58:29
  he goes to listen to one talk. I think it was Tim Flannery talking about seaweed and a kind of
• 58:36
  seaweed that can take methane out of a cow's burps. Oh, yeah. To minimise. Five years later,
• 58:43
  he's doing it. And he's got this. He's the cow burps seaweed guy. Yeah. Seafarers farm in
• 58:48
  Tasmania. And I was at an event hosting an event and I had to interview him. And just talking to him
• 58:54
  afterwards, you know, at one point, he says, you know, I didn't understand what I was doing for a lot of
• 58:59
  it. And I guess I'm afraid of being in that area, that moment, that place where you're not quite sure
• 59:03
  what you're doing. You know, we get to a point when you get good at what you do, you're like, I
• 59:07
  only like to do things. I know what I can do. Yeah. I mean, my zone. So he would say scientists were
• 59:13
  very generous with their time, but they were talking to me like I was an equal and I'll be writing
• 59:16
  things down and then going home. I don't know what cow burps are made of. Yeah. And looking at
• 59:21
  looking it up and it didn't stop him because for him, it was an exciting thing to do. You know,
• 59:26
  it really was a new, and I'm not saying it's that necessarily. I don't know what it is. I think
• 59:31
  it could be an education, maybe. It could be the environment, but I don't know, but I just think
• 59:40
  I'd be exciting to find the thing that is propelling you in a different way. And using the skills
• 59:44
  you have as a good communicator. I mean, surely by now, what it is that you have or I have is
• 59:51
  a sense of making people feel it is and comfortable and listen and I don't know, heard, you know,
• 1:00:00
  whatever. And then action. How do you take action for that next thing? So I'm like at the moment,
• 1:00:04
  I'm sort of just doing listening and market research and listened a lot to your podcasts and
• 1:00:09
  Sarah's and talking to me like Sam and and finding those people to have a chance. That's great.
• 1:00:16
  So if he's turning cow burps into seaweed. Well, no, he's giving the cow seaweed. He's giving
• 1:00:24
  so that he's turning seaweed into methane through a cow. No, he's making there's less methane now
• 1:00:32
  in their burps because he's feeding seaweed. Yeah. And it can be as simple as a salt lick.
• 1:00:39
  And then there's no more methane coming out. Yeah. And what's fascinating about that is it's nature
• 1:00:44
  solving a problem in nature. Right. I find that quite fascinating. I think you should set your mind
• 1:00:51
  just stopping kangaroos from shooting so much. Sure. By feeding them
• 1:01:00
  Stodgy food. I'm just thinking, yeah, feeding them something that makes them
• 1:01:05
  science wasn't my wasn't my. As you can tell, it was definitely mine. Yeah. Wow, you're like a
• 1:01:10
  regular. I'm a biologist in here. Yeah, I don't know what it would be. Education,
• 1:01:16
  just me kids interest me. That's good. Teaching adults interest me too. You used to teach adults
• 1:01:20
  improv. You know, what I love is when people discover things about themselves too, you know.
• 1:01:25
  People are Australians are really a funny. We're still very shy. We won't speak up.
• 1:01:31
  Oh, totally. Oh my god, it even an event. You're kind of going, I'm interviewing someone you
• 1:01:35
  adore and you're barely making any noise. It's people are funny. And they really,
• 1:01:40
  they really like give themselves permission to speak up. And I just think it's silly.
• 1:01:44
  It's a very Aussie thing, isn't it? It's infuriating. Yeah. That's one thing I liked about improv,
• 1:01:48
  though, because I did a bit of stand up in New York as well as along with improv. And, you know,
• 1:01:55
  in improv, I do think feel like the crowd is on your side from the get go. They're like, come on.
• 1:02:00
  You can do it. Yeah. Make me laugh. And with stand up, everyone's gone. Everyone's just sitting
• 1:02:06
  there going, all right, make me laugh. I hate it. Make me laugh. Monkey boy. Do your dance.
• 1:02:13
  I've never done stand up. I don't know how you did it. What was your, what was your stick?
• 1:02:17
  What was your area? Everything that I thought was interesting or funny. I mean,
• 1:02:21
  quite a lot about being in Australia and in America and noticing things over there. I had
• 1:02:25
  bits about Fahrenheit and, you know, whatever else was, you know, interested in. Fish out of
• 1:02:31
  water stuff. About, you know, at the time, about the religious right who were all gone crazy,
• 1:02:35
  about gay people. I had a bit about, you know, them caring a lot less about,
• 1:02:40
  eating crustaceans than they do about, you know, which is also forbidden in the Old Testament
• 1:02:46
  than they do about gay people. So good, though, crustaceans. Yeah, they're very good, but they're
• 1:02:50
  really good too. Yeah, exactly. They're all are. And you don't, yeah, you don't hear people get
• 1:02:55
  quite so, hold on to the collar about their children coming out of crustacean munchers.
• 1:03:00
  Anyway, I just feel like stand up is so, it's like a, it's so combat. It's like
• 1:03:05
  lamb to the slaughter kind of thing. Whereas within proverb, you're in a team. Also, I never
• 1:03:09
  played sport at school. Right. This was your sport. This was my sport. But in my interest in what
• 1:03:15
  you were saying about not wanting to be really in the public eye and being like liking privacy,
• 1:03:21
  because when, I mean, now you are, you must get recognized. Yeah, but I don't, I don't say,
• 1:03:28
  hey, come into my home. We'll do a photo shoot where I'm wearing white.
• 1:03:31
  But and I've had a nude pedicure because that's natural.
• 1:03:36
  Right. Well, and so I never done a black and white photo spread nude. I kind of would like to
• 1:03:41
  probably. There's your next step. That's your thing. That's my next thing. You know what I mean?
• 1:03:45
  Like, it's like they ask you, you just go, no. And if they get annoyed, you go, it'll be fine.
• 1:03:51
  So fame doesn't bother you. Self-absorption does. Yeah. And it's really time consuming. And I don't,
• 1:03:57
  I don't love having to put on because often in those photoshoots, I'm at your way close,
• 1:04:02
  you would never win a million years. No. But when you, and so when you started getting famous,
• 1:04:07
  when good news week happened and people first started going, oh, are you on TV last night?
• 1:04:11
  That wasn't, that wasn't bothered them. No, that's lovely because it's just in the moment on
• 1:04:15
  the street. You're in, I mean, my normal clothes. I'm just a color. And it's also a great opportunity
• 1:04:19
  to fight. It's like, you know, with rock whiz, it was all men in their 50s coming up to me.
• 1:04:23
  Interesting. That's my core demographic. Right. When I was 38. Yeah.
• 1:04:27
  And then when I started doing home delivery, women in their 40s. Right.
• 1:04:30
  And that was interesting to me when a demographic comes up. And I've just done this
• 1:04:36
  10-part show called Greater Australian Walks on SBS. And that's a real mix of people. But then
• 1:04:40
  Fisk, this comedy show I've done with my beautiful friend, Kitty Flanagan,
• 1:04:44
  old, young and children. Yeah. It's just, it's across the thing. So as the makers of content,
• 1:04:55
  you want to go and say to heads of production teams and all that, you go, you don't think,
• 1:05:00
  you don't know what people like. You really don't. No. And you don't, you make something,
• 1:05:05
  and you hope when your flight's people will like it. But I'm trying to persuade network executives.
• 1:05:12
  I mean, you know, not calling out any particular networks here because that's all the same.
• 1:05:16
  But I mean, especially in the commercial world, it is like getting my children to eat broccoli.
• 1:05:22
  You know, it's like, I know that it's good for them. And I know what's going to work. But you
• 1:05:27
  just have to find an entertaining way to smother it in honey or something and shove it. Because I know
• 1:05:33
  it'll be good. But you have to articulate it in such a way that their puny brains will be able
• 1:05:39
  to comprehend it, especially if it's quite different from anything that's on. Because they'll go,
• 1:05:43
  yeah, we don't really do, you know, or we did something like that, you know, a couple of years ago,
• 1:05:47
  didn't really work. Well, no, it wasn't like this. It was, you know, vaguely the same area.
• 1:05:54
  But you're, you're coming at this. I mean, I think this is also somewhat an Australian thing,
• 1:05:58
  where we are somewhat a culture of no. We like to look for the no in Australia. But also too,
• 1:06:04
  do you not think we are making more creatives than our industry can sustain?
• 1:06:10
  We think we're like America or England. You know, France makes more films than we do in TV.
• 1:06:16
  Denmark does it. I mean, the thing is we think that we can sustain. You can't keep churning out
• 1:06:23
  30 new actors out of each acting school. That's 100 actors a year from say just the three main
• 1:06:28
  ones, whatever they are. A lot of things are Uber drivers. Exactly. And there was a time when you
• 1:06:32
  didn't have to go to Hollywood. Well, now they are all going to their pilot season. And that's fine.
• 1:06:36
  I mean, it's absolutely an option. But, you know, all the local TV shows we used to have where you
• 1:06:41
  could learn how to do your craft. Gone. True. But there's also, I mean, there is a, a cautiousness
• 1:06:50
  and the conservatism, especially given what's changing in television, you know, with the rise of
• 1:06:54
  streaming and so on, that they know that the bread and butter is sports and reality TV and anything
• 1:06:59
  that's not that, it really needs a strong raison d'etge. And it can't be, it can't be too similar
• 1:07:05
  to something that might not have worked. It can't be too out there. And as soon as this thing that
• 1:07:09
  you make, oh, it's rating, I will we love you. Yeah, absolutely. And that's when I just want to,
• 1:07:15
  yeah, and that's when I turn to people and I have quite honest conversations and go, you are
• 1:07:20
  kidding me, aren't you? You thought this would not work. You were making me feel like it wouldn't
• 1:07:25
  work. And it has worked. Yeah. And I just wish, I wish the powers that B would not be so self-involved
• 1:07:34
  in their own kind of keeping the job and, and their own good taste or opinion or knowledge when,
• 1:07:41
  you don't know, either, you don't know if this will work either. Take a chance. No one takes a chance.
• 1:07:46
  No one wants to really take a chance in anything. And that's a shame if we had more
• 1:07:50
  culture of failing and, you know, not getting it right all the time. It'd be lovely, but, you know,
• 1:07:56
  it all costs money and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Yeah. And it's also just like where are you
• 1:08:01
  sort of pitching yourself? I do, I did find in the United States that there was more of a culture of
• 1:08:05
  yes, that they were pitching themselves from a preconception of like, you come up with an idea of like,
• 1:08:10
  well, how about this thing? And their initial instinct is always going to be, oh, that's cool.
• 1:08:14
  You know, I know this other person who also is interested in that kind of thing. Maybe you should
• 1:08:19
  get a drink and see if there's something can happen. You know, let me know how it goes. Let me know
• 1:08:22
  if I can be help of help. That's the initial go-to for people in the industry over there. And the
• 1:08:27
  big industry here, I think it's usually like, well, and there's nothing more exciting than a, well,
• 1:08:39
  oh, you're killing me with your enthusiasm. Exactly. That's right.
• 1:08:43
  Lastly, do you have any insights about Europe? I mean, given that you are a, a Eurofile and
• 1:08:47
  a European and are distradling these two continents, is there anything that that strikes you about
• 1:08:52
  either the nature of the people or the nature of the work in Australia versus France?
• 1:09:01
  Well, having not been there in a long time because I can't fly or won't fly, okay, I'll change it.
• 1:09:07
  I look online. Can't fly, won't fly, a new show.
• 1:09:09
  Julia's and Mero's can't fly, won't fly. She just sits in a room.
• 1:09:14
  Julia's and Mero's sitting at home. Yeah, and somebody comes in and says,
• 1:09:18
  you're going to fly today and I go, no, can't fly, won't fly. And that's it. That's it.
• 1:09:22
  Two minutes. It's a two minute show. Look, all I know is, you know, for me Europe, when I think
• 1:09:27
  of Europe, I really do think of my time at Eurovision. And what I used to love was
• 1:09:33
  this weird competition that everyone said wasn't political and often was.
• 1:09:39
  Who said it wasn't political? Everyone. The denial within that, but just the joy of going to,
• 1:09:47
  you know, Malmur or Stockholm or Moscow or Baku in Azerbaijan or Oslo or one year when it was
• 1:09:57
  Germany, we went, great, we're going to Berlin and we went to, was it Dusseldorf, I think?
• 1:10:01
  Could have been. You could tell me anything. But putting on this ridiculous show and being in
• 1:10:07
  these amazing rooms, these media rooms where you could hear no English. Oh my God, I was a pig and
• 1:10:13
  shit. I loved it. No English and just hearing the crazy songs when they were still in their
• 1:10:18
  languages and meeting lots of different people and it was the happiest place in the world.
• 1:10:24
  And so did you go to the Ukraine year? Did you go to the one that went to Ukraine held?
• 1:10:28
  No, we didn't. We didn't. But, yeah, I mean, it's, we don't need to get into that.
• 1:10:36
  No, I mean, we have such a lovely conversation. And you did say lastly, but it's a big question.
• 1:10:41
  But, you know, in the final three minutes of the show, let's discuss the geopolitics of
• 1:10:47
  Vladimir Putin's strategy in central Europe. Yeah. Yeah, I just love that Zelensky was an actor
• 1:10:54
  and a comedian and being the president. And you kind of go, maybe we need more people with real
• 1:11:00
  jobs, getting into politics. I think, you know, it's probably one of the reasons, you know,
• 1:11:05
  quite enjoyed. I did quite a bit of stuff with the independent candidates leading up to the
• 1:11:08
  last federal election because I wanted to know who they were. And it turns out that a GP, a former
• 1:11:15
  captain of a rugby union team, a surgeon for kids, a foreign correspondent, a midwife actually
• 1:11:24
  having had these jobs in the world with real people end up sort of having really great ways of
• 1:11:30
  communicating with others and making decisions happen. And so, yeah, look, I don't know much about
• 1:11:39
  the industry over there, but if call my agent, it's just such a great job. If I could be in that show.
• 1:11:45
  Well, here's the final true final thing. I mean, you were saying you're looking for your next
• 1:11:50
  chapter and that what politics needed, people who haven't been traditionally politicians. So,
• 1:11:55
  maybe you could run for office. Look, I did think about that. No, I mean, thought about it. Why not?
• 1:12:00
  But it's a certain, it's another kind of level of fame and people wanting something from you that
• 1:12:09
  I just need a little bit of a break from. It's a certain kind of, everyone needs something from
• 1:12:16
  you. I've seen them in action because I've done a few events and stuff. And it's that thing of
• 1:12:21
  people coming up and wanting something and wanting to say something and telling their life story
• 1:12:24
  because, you know, if you're in the public eye, you get that a lot too. You get a lot of stories.
• 1:12:29
  But also, I think it's slightly out of my wheelhouse is what I would say in that I'm not, I'd have to
• 1:12:35
  do a lot of homework to get there because there's a lot of people in parliament house haven't done a
• 1:12:40
  lot of homework to get there. Oh, it's true. I know. In this climate, I just feel like you can be
• 1:12:44
  gotchaed at any moment. Totally. You just want to really know. And what I love about some of the
• 1:12:49
  independence is that people kept saying, but they don't know anything about politics. You go,
• 1:12:55
  you know what, they're overqualified to be in there. Also, what do you need to really know about
• 1:13:00
  politics? Exactly. They need to know about, like you talk to a legal spender or, you know,
• 1:13:04
  but I still don't really know how my tax works. Do you know what I mean? It's those things. I
• 1:13:08
  still don't quite know how, you know, it's things like everyday stuff. I kind of model through it.
• 1:13:14
  And I think you need to be on top of that. I don't mind being a cheerleader of that or being part
• 1:13:19
  of it in some way. No, I think it's going to be something different to that. And it doesn't mean
• 1:13:25
  you can't be a good helper along the way. I'll MC things for free. I'm a big free MCA.
• 1:13:30
  Call Julius Amiro for your free MC and gig anytime when she works on turning political
• 1:13:36
  speeches into a kangaroo feed to prevent them from purring. Well, that was your call.
• 1:13:42
  If I finish it, I look forward to the next time. Thanks for being on the show, Julia. I love
• 1:13:46
  you. No, thank you. Just thanks for having me.