Latest / Nutrition Connection by Dr. Kristen Hicks-Roof / 37: Brittany Brockner MS, RD - SUPPLEMENTS / REGULATORY AFFAIRS
Transcript
- Kristen Hicks-roof: Hi and welcome back to Nutrition Connection, the show where science meets storytelling. I'm your host, Dr. Kristin Ixroof, dietitian, researcher, and lifelong advocate of the role of nutrition, health, and wellness. Each episode, I get to sit down with dietitians and nutrition experts all across the food and healthcare landscape, leaders whose work touches nearly every aspect of our lives. So whether you're a student, a seasoned professional, or someone simply curious about food, nutrition, and health, this podcast is just for you. The views, thoughts, and comments on this podcast do not reflect those of my employer nor the employers of my guests. So let's go ahead and get connected. Today I'm excited to bring on a new connection of mine. have Brittany Brockner. She's the Senior Nutrition Research Manager at Piping Rock Health Products. Welcome to show, Brittany. Brittany Brockner: Thank you so much for the introduction. I'm so excited to be here on this podcast. Kristen Hicks-roof: I always love to bring dietitians on. One, it's always great to have old connections, but also new connections. And I love bringing on dietitians in many different nation sectors, as you know. And so like your area between regulatory and scientific affairs is just super interesting, especially when we start to think about how do nutrition experts play pivotal roles in emerging companies or food and supplements. So I'm excited to really dive into where What got you where you are today? Let's go all the way from the beginning though. What inspired you and made you want to become a nutrition professional? Brittany Brockner: Yeah, that's good. That's a good question. think for me, it started when I was just a kid. So I grew up with my mom as an athlete. She still is actually. So nutrition was always emphasized in my house and it was just something that I was interested in. And then as I started to learn more, I learned, hey, nutrition is not only great for athletic performance, but for overall health. And it's evidence based. There's a ton of science behind this. And I also like science, it just kind of like was multiple layers of interests and I love this field. I mean, I've loved it since I was a kid and I'm very grateful to still love it today. Kristen Hicks-roof: And I'm curious, what a fascinating story, especially having an athlete mom. I mean, that is just cool to start, but like, did you have exposure of even dietitians or was your mom just showcasing how food and nutrition helped to support performance? Brittany Brockner: Yes. No, we didn't have or she didn't have a dietician and I didn't see one either, but it was more of just that influence. You your mom influences you a lot, especially when it comes to your food. So just hearing her talk about like, ⁓ this has like these nutrients or ⁓ she was kind of the opposite of what I guess is trending where she was always trying to eat more instead of less. So that's kind of the frame of reference that I. came in of like, we need to add more beans to this plate or we need to add more tomatoes or whatever it is. And it was always like this healthy food we need more of and less of like you can't eat cake. Like we didn't we didn't have that kind of frame of reference. We would eat cake on holidays, but it just like was not really I guess a focus of like don't eat. bad foods, was more of like, here are the tasty, healthy foods. And I just fell in love with all of nutrition in that way. Kristen Hicks-roof: I mean, my mom is my best friend, so I definitely have learned habits, although I wouldn't say my mom is the most health forward person, but she's very active and yeah, that was part of it. I see myself, so we have three little girls and I'm always thinking, how do I talk about foods? Not in a good, bad nomenclature, and I love how you put the air quotes around bad because I think we've grown up with this like good, bad stigma for so long, whereas could we revert it back to Brittany Brockner: Thank Yeah. Kristen Hicks-roof: all foods fit and how do they fit and how do you add? always love how do you make things better? Stop omitting and demonizing food, but how can we make these meals better? And I do think it sounds like from what you're saying, that was emphasized in your childhood and likely contributed to you becoming a dietitian. And so let's let's talk about you becoming a dietitian. What's your journey? So you went to school, you decided to pursue nutrition. Brittany Brockner: Mm-hmm. Kristen Hicks-roof: How did you end up, you you went to the internship and then finding a regulatory role and a science role, like that's very niche. So how did you get in there? Did you do anything in between? Brittany Brockner: Yeah, so kind of went niche right off the bat. So after internship, that's where I had my real exposure to clinical work, which is what I thought I wanted to do. You you're in school for six years, do your internship. And that's like the big, you know, that's like the end goal for so long. Got there, didn't like it. I knew it wasn't for me. And the funny thing is that When I was interviewing, I still interviewed for clinical roles just because like I needed a job. ⁓ But I couldn't convince them that I wanted the job. So I wear my emotions on my face. And apparently it was so deep in my soul that I just could not get the enthusiasm to get a clinical job, which turned out to be a blessing in disguise because that kind of forced me to look at what are other roles that I can still use my nutrition degree for my dietitian background, but in maybe a different way that I hadn't thought of before. So I came across this regulatory role at Piping Rock Health Products online on Indeed, I think it was, and I just read the job description. It mentioned regulatory, I kind of, like as dietitians, we know a little bit about regulatory. We know like, requirements were organic, we know, what was it, some things about claim substantiation, not too much, but I remembered a little bit from school. So I kind of pulled everything that I did know and I put it into a cover letter and connected the dots for the hiring manager. And I think one of the things that I really emphasized was my research background. So pointing out, can do these are the things that I'm looking for in a clinical trial and this is how I would apply it to your product substantiation. And I think that's what helped me stand out. Cause a lot of people don't really know what dieticians do or the skills that we can provide. So just spelling it out, I think that's really what helps me get the job in the first place. Kristen Hicks-roof: And that's really interesting. It's like you knew almost your heart and soul that clinical maybe was not the route for you. But what I've seen so often than not is people are like, I want to go into regulatory. I want to go into niche careers, but how do I find the job? So it's cool to see that you just found it right on the internet. And this actually has nutrition in the title. One of the things that I try and show people is dietitian is not always in the titles or even the description. So we have to Brittany Brockner: Bye. Kristen Hicks-roof: show what we bring to the table. sounds like you did that. How did you learn that? mean, what was it that got you to connect those dots and what kind of tips or advice would you give to someone who's like, I want to go that way, but I don't have extensive background and I feel like I'm not qualified. Brittany Brockner: Yeah, I think the last part feeling like you're not qualified is the kicker. Like you as a dietitian, if there's ⁓ a role that involves nutrition in any way, you're probably more than qualified. You have to kind of look into what are the specific skills that you need for the role. So even if you're reading that job description and you might not have that specific experience, like I didn't have regulatory experience within the dietary supplement industry. But there were some things that I did know about supplements. There were some regulations I knew. And I have the ability to learn. So also, know, conveying that, that you're willing and able and excited to learn more. I think that goes a long way. Kristen Hicks-roof: Yeah, I know. definitely think it does. I think we undervalue ourselves so much, especially because we get such diverse training, right? You get clinical, food service, community, but you also often get ancillary rotations in your internship or even during your education where you're like maybe media marketing or business ownership or regulatory that we might just have a sliver, but we can always learn. We are developed to be active learners. That's why we have to have continuing education every five years. So I think that is really important. So let's talk about your day to day. I mean, working for the supplement industry, what does that look like? And what is your day to day as a senior nutrition research manager? Brittany Brockner: Yeah. Sure. So I will start before I go into the day to day, I'll give you a little bit more of a background on how claims kind of work in the dietary supplement industry. So there's a few different types of claims. The one that I put more of my efforts into is what's called the structure function claim. So that type of claim is unique to dietary supplements. And it basically can only speak to the structure or function of the body. cannot implement imply any sort of disease, stay or any ailment. So that could be like supports bone health would be a structure function claim, but prevents frail bones that would not fly that could convey osteoporosis potentially. So you wouldn't want to suggest that your product can treat, cure or prevent any sort of disease. So that's kind of part one of the structure function claim is just the verbiage in itself and assessing if that is compliant. The second part is assessing if there's actually evidence behind the product claim. So if you're saying your product supports bone health, well, what kind of evidence do you have behind that? And the law in the Code of Federal Regulations is essentially it has to be competent and reliable evidence. So that can be open to interpretation. There are some industry guidelines of what exactly constitutes competent and reliable evidence. So I do my best to stick to all of those guidelines and have the highest standard of science behind our product claims. So that's kind of the background when I say claim substantiation, that's really what I am referring to. Kristen Hicks-roof: When it's so, it's daunting, I think, for a lot of people who aren't in this space. Like, I don't know the code of federal regulations. Like, how do I interpret that? So you have a master's degree. Do you feel like that master's degree really helped elevate you or do you feel like you were missing something with not having a doctorate? Like, give us a little bit of guidance there. I mean, I don't, I think that you are more than qualified. I'm not trying to say that, but is there something that you feel like? Brittany Brockner: you Yes. Kristen Hicks-roof: you have an edge or you're missing an edge with that role. Brittany Brockner: No, I feel like I actually have an edge with the master's degree in nutrition science, especially as we're diving into the literature and interpreting the results and applying that to the claim. So something like I'll give you a tangible example. If I'm looking at a study assessing a dietary supplement for skin hydration, for example, I'm also looking at confounding variables and how that might affect the results. So if the product was taken with say two glasses of water, then I have to consider that the water might've contributed to the hydration benefits. So just little things like that that really add up as we're compiling all of our science. The one thing... Kristen Hicks-roof: Yeah, I I love that. I do think that the master's requirement really, I think a lot of people are frustrated with it, but I think the master's requirement really allows us to get a deeper appreciation for the science. And I do think that that could really lend very well for a lot of these roles where you really, you can't just look at an abstract, right? You have to look in the methodology. You have to understand. is this good quality evidence, not only on the scale of evidence, then like, like I love your hydration example where it's like, okay, I got to put some thought into this and that is critical, you know, critically thinking through the research. Brittany Brockner: Exactly. There's a lot of critical thinking for each trial. ⁓ Even reviewing meta-analyses, looking at what's the dosage range that they included in there. There's always so many variables as you know with nutrition science in general. Kristen Hicks-roof: ⁓ I mean, that's an understatement. was telling one of my friends, he's a animal nutritionist. And I was like, man, if we could have as good a control in animal nutrition, which I used to be in a rat lab. So like you had very good control what they ate, how much they ate, how much exercise, right. But in humans, it's so hard. mean, right now I'm in a research study over by an ASU campus right near me. And it's like, Brittany Brockner: Okay. Thank Kristen Hicks-roof: I'm not even great as a participant. Like, and I'm very well educated and knowledgeable. So I can only imagine, right, people who have to complete three day records or have really intense dietary regimens or interventions or even supplements. Are you eating the supplement or taking the supplement every day? Like there's a lot of complexities in human nutrition. So let's dive a little bit deeper. I mean, you've kind of already had a, ⁓ Brittany Brockner: Mm-hmm. Absolutely. Kristen Hicks-roof: description a little bit about how scientific data, how does the evidence really fuel everything you do in your day to day? Brittany Brockner: Well, scientific evidence is kind of the basis of everything that I do in this role. So ⁓ I'll go into a little bit more about the claim substantiation. That one's more clearly based in scientific evidence. me and my team will compile kind of like a literature review for each claim and product that we're looking to make sure we have substantiation for. And we'll just go through. What I like to call it just the totality of evidence. So making sure that we're not cherry picking, you know, one study and putting all of our eggs in that basket. We're looking at all of the different studies if there are some conflicting results, is there, what's the general consensus? Are there more studies that are supporting or more studies that are not supporting the claim? So that's kind of how we'll assess what the scientific evidence looks like. And. We'll also consult with our legal department as well to make sure that we're all on board and ready to make the claim and support it with all the studies that we have. Kristen Hicks-roof: That's cool. So you're a lot of behind the scenes, right? To really help with the marketing team and to help with the promotion of the product. Do you ever see yourself or maybe people on your team to go more consumer facing or is that something that you ever see this bridge of people who are behind the scenes doing some of the scientific substantiation all the way to being a face of the company or being a spokesperson or something like that? Brittany Brockner: Thank Yeah, that's definitely a possibility. I think that my team has a lot of responsibilities as we are now with being regulatory and science, but we certainly are the like in the background of all areas of ⁓ I guess, wherever marketing goes, we're in the background of it. So whether it's our social media, our labels, our websites, marketing materials. reaching out to retailers, any of that educational materials, my team ⁓ will have reviewed that content and made sure that what we're saying is actually true. Kristen Hicks-roof: And that is no small feat. So I just want to make sure that people are very clear. Like there is a lot, especially, you know, marketing teams, they want to go out and spread messaging everywhere and they kind of want to fluff it up a little bit. And so it's like, all right, here's what the data actually says. Here's the limits of what we can say. Right. And so I do think you're right. Your plate, I'm sure, is very full, especially as there's constantly new science and constantly new Brittany Brockner: Thank you. Kristen Hicks-roof: direction of what consumers are looking for. I've really didn't dove a lot deeper into consumer insights over the last 10 years. And it's fascinating to see how what they want changes in what form they want it, right? Like, I don't know if you see that as your company maybe developing new products or marketing. Brittany Brockner: Yes. Mm-hmm. ⁓ we're developing new products all the time. There's, ⁓ and we have a whole team of people who are looking at those trends and ⁓ forecasting what new products we should develop based on that. So there's always ⁓ a lot of work, but I think it's super fun. I actually like how dynamic the industry is. Like it's never, never stagnant. So there's always something to learn, you know, something to do. Kristen Hicks-roof: That's awesome. So you had a really successful career in this industry so far, especially going straight into it after internships. So what are you most, what's your most favorite or what are you most proud of so far? Brittany Brockner: Um, I think there's a couple of things. The first one is that I'm, I'm just even looking back, I've been in the industry about six and a half years. I'm still like so happy and proud that I even found this role in regulatory. Um, and I do want to touch upon that for anybody who's interested in getting into the role. It was, so I did, um, you know, to get the role communicated what my transferable skills were. but there was a learning curve. So I really didn't know much about dietary supplement regulations or I don't think I had ever read the CFR. So that I did have to learn and I actually learned like outside of work hours too, just so that I could, just the type A dietician in me can, you know, how it is sometimes it just like, okay, well, I think dieticians think that they don't know enough just as a general proposition. And that's exactly how I operated when I first got the role. So I was reading the Code of Federal Regulations outside of work and then also applying it, like learning on the job as well. So it was a learning curve at first in the regulatory space. But once I got the hang of it, then it became much easier to combine science and regulatory. Kristen Hicks-roof: Well, and I think you're right in that any career path that you take that is not quote unquote what you've trained to do is there's change, right? And there's always this learning curve. It doesn't mean we can't do it. And this is one of the things that one of the drivers of this podcast is I want people to say, wow, I didn't know I could have that role. Like I'm going to take Brittany's tips and advice and I'm going to apply to regulatory roles. You know what I mean? Like that is kind of one of the. four foundations of what I want is I want people to be inspired of, look, you have the knowledge and you have the skills. Yeah, you're going to continue to need to learn because even if I were to go work for whatever company, there's always things that we have to learn, but we are continuous learners as dietitians. So I think that I think that's really good advice. What other suggestions or tips would you have for someone who maybe wants to break into the regulatory space or Brittany Brockner: Thanks for watching. Exactly. Kristen Hicks-roof: How can we give them the confidence that they can do something outside of what they're trained to do? Brittany Brockner: Good. tips to get into this regulatory role, definitely get on LinkedIn and start adding people who are already in the role. One, just to help with, you know, getting your foot in the door, networking. I kind of don't like the word networking. It's more of just meeting people and getting to know people who are in the role. A lot of people are willing to help and give you direction. So that's one thing. The other is once you start to get connections in the industry on LinkedIn, then you can see more job postings. Because sometimes the job is not listed as like an official job posting on LinkedIn, but it could be just somebody that you connected with made a post and they linked, they had a link to it somewhere else. So you'll get to see more opportunities that way. I think that's probably the most practical way to get your foot in the door and like get that entry level role in regulatory. Kristen Hicks-roof: I think my algorithm is now set up for careers because I've been posting since end of last year. I post once or twice a week, usually about different like niche career paths. And now my whole deleted feed is like these career paths. And so I'm like, ⁓ well, this is great. I can just add this to my form. But I think you're right. Like there you have to be able to use some of these platforms strategically, especially in some of these niche roles again. Brittany Brockner: it. Mm-hmm. Kristen Hicks-roof: They don't have dietician in the title. They may not be going on some of these job search platforms. And so how are we creatively looking for some of these roles? Now let's say someone is interested in the role. How do they best put their best foot forward to make sure that their application may be considered? Brittany Brockner: Thank you. one. Yeah, so I have hired nutrition professionals for this role. So I think that from my unique perspective, I would definitely connect the dots for the hiring manager. So what I mean by that is not just put that you're a dietitian and you worked at so-and-so hospital, but add a bullet point of how does that skill or that experience contribute to this role that you're looking to apply for? Because I know as a dietitian myself that another RD is fully equipped to do the job, but I don't know that you know that. So I need to see that you're fully understanding the job description and that you can put in your own words how you would uniquely contribute. And then, yeah. One more thing is just in like the cover letter, expanding that. Some people don't write cover letters. Kristen Hicks-roof: I think that... Go ahead. Brittany Brockner: I think it's helpful. see it as an opportunity to just make yourself stand out. Kristen Hicks-roof: Now, how do you think this will be either a challenge or an opportunity with AI? Are you getting, like as a person who's hiring, how do they stand out in this basically information overload of monotony, right? Like I think a lot of the AI content like just sounds very structured and like it's great, but it's also, everything has its faults. So how would you recommend them like really showcasing that? Brittany Brockner: Thank Kristen Hicks-roof: that they have that connection point, if they can't even make it to an interview, right? Because sometimes everything just gets screened before they even get there. So they may have the skills, but if they don't write the cover letter, which I think is good advice, how do they bridge that in a resume? Brittany Brockner: Yeah, I think that I think you can have AI optimized for the AI screening. I think there is a way. I forgot the term, but you could Google after this interview. But I think there's a way to like have your AI tool optimized for the AI screening. And then also not all companies use AI screenings for their resumes. ⁓ I know I look at them myself. So. I'll look through, I'll look very quickly. Kristen Hicks-roof: When sometimes when we talked about it, like you may not even be able to apply for the job if you don't have a connection or you're applying and you're like, hey, I'm really interested in piping rock health products. ⁓ great. I know Brittany. I'm going to reach out to Brittany and say, hey, I'm a dietitian. Here's my resume. And so sometimes it's like putting that extra foot forward can really help go a long way. Someone did tell me, which is probably super wrong, but I thought it was very creative and I gave them props. They were like, they have their resume. And then what they did is they like copy the job description and they put it on top of, on top of their resume, but hidden behind and put it in white, white coloring or white, ⁓ text coloring. And so like the AI system, picked it up that it was part of it just to get through the screener. was like, I don't know if that's actually allowable, but that's really creative. I remember when I was an academic, you always had students try and get creative. Brittany Brockner: ⁓ no. Kristen Hicks-roof: whether that was changing the margins or increasing the font size. Like I think everyone has that creative edge somewhere buried deep. So I agree with you. I think that there is a lot of opportunities, whether some are more appropriate than others, I agree. But it's great feedback, especially as someone who has hired other nutrition professionals. So thanks for that. Brittany Brockner: Yeah. Kristen Hicks-roof: Okay, my favorite question, if you had a crystal ball, which is gonna be interesting, because I haven't interviewed very many people in the supplement industry, so maybe you have a different angle. If you had a crystal ball, what do you think is coming next in nutrition? Brittany Brockner: so my answer here is going to be influenced by my experience at Expo West. But I will say I see fiber taking up some more space in the dietary supplement industry. It's historically taken a backseat or been in the background to protein, which is of course been front and center for a very long time. ⁓ Kristen Hicks-roof: So good. Brittany Brockner: And that's good protein definitely has its benefits, but I do see fiber getting more into that center stage and taking up more space because fiber also has a ton of benefits and is often under consumed. So there is a need there. And then there's also that science behind it. hopefully I'm rooting for fiber. I love fiber. So that's what I think. Kristen Hicks-roof: Well, know, at Expo West, was so fascinating. You know, one of the big things that I pulled out was even like women's health. I can't tell you how many booths were focused on women's health, which I had never thought. I mean, of course I thought of, especially as a female, but it was so cool. And I think there are so many potential dietician jobs working with, you know, the supplement industry, working with the food and beverage industry, working with supplier industry, because Brittany Brockner: Mm-hmm. Yeah Kristen Hicks-roof: All of these products want to make health claims. They want to make structure function claims. Right. And so why are dieticians not filling that seat? So I know before we got on the call, I was saying, I really think every dietician should go to Expo West for a one time just like to experience it because it was mind blowing to me. had never been there. There were 80,000 people at this conference. So Brittany Brockner: on Kristen Hicks-roof: It was not only massive, but it covered everything from food innovation to supplements to ingredient suppliers and how are they carving their niche or how are they getting people to buy their product which is unique from their competitors. Have y'all ever boothed there? Brittany Brockner: Yeah, we had a booth there. We had two booths actually, because we have a ton of brands. So yeah, we were real busy. Kristen Hicks-roof: Yeah, how fun. That's super cool. So little note for everyone. Try and attend Xpo West. They actually have a health professional discount, which is very affordable versus going for a company. ⁓ So thank you so much, Brittany, for telling your story and really encouraging people to get outside their comfort zone. They have the skills and knowledge and they just need to go out there and try it and put it, you know, put in an application. So if you like the podcast, make sure you like subscribe, leave a review, but most importantly. check out the next episode because every episode I bring out a different dietitian and nutrition expert to share their story and give you tips and advice for how to get into that niche. So thanks again, Brittany.