Latest / The Future Travel Experience (FTE) Podcast / Southwest’s Kevin Kleist on AI, Robotics, Startups & Human-Centred Aviation Innovation

Transcript

Southwest’s Kevin Kleist on AI, Robotics, Startups & Human-Centred Aviation Innovation · The Future Travel Experience (FTE) Podcast

• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: Ever felt like the world is moving too fast, that there's simply not enough time between clearing your inbox and joining the next team's call to give deep and meaningful thought to the technologies that are about to transform your aviation operation?
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: Well, help is at hand with this new Future Travel Experience podcast.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: Proud to be part of the Apex family.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_00: My name is Max Gosny.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: I'm the new MD at FTE, and this pod is designed as a community support group for all you busy aviation professionals feeling bamboozled by the searing pace of change.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: Tune in for a collaborative and friendly forum where we'll guide you on the innovations that are too important to ignore.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_00: Each episode, I'll be interviewing aviation chiefs who've blazed a trail with new technology.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_00: We'll get behind the hype to explore the very human challenges standing in the way of successful implementation.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_00: What leadership traits are essential to drive change?
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_00: Is AI overrated?
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_00: And how do we win that all-important employee buy-in for change?
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: You can listen on your way to work while traveling to an Apex FTE event, or even while walking your dog.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: Whatever your preference, you'll uncover a wealth of collaboration, best practice, and creative thinking.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: Enjoy.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: Hello and welcome to the second episode of the Apex Future Travel Experience podcast.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_00: On today's show, I catch up with Kevin Kleist, a man familiar to many of you.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: Kevin is head of emerging trends at Southwest Airlines, and he's also the voice and the face of FTE's Innovation Hub.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: Kevin talks to us today about technology in the service of people, a tool to help and enhance your workforce performance, not to replace employee talent.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_00: We also discuss why effective change is about showing empathy and empowerment towards your people to believe that if you want to go somewhere fast, we'll go alone.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: But if you want to go far, you have to go together.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_00: We'll also discover how a little boy with a curious mind and a love of aircraft was always going to be destined to lead innovation somewhere within aviation.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_00: Now, if you enjoy today's episode and learning from Kevin, then do check out FTU's digital innovation and startup hub.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's where the industry's digital transformation network gathers to drive really effective change in the industry.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: And remember my adage.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_00: Well it's not mine, but remember the famous adage that I quoted earlier, an African proverb that if you want to go fast, well then crack on and go alone.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: But if you want to go far, then let's go together.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: Enjoy the show and email me at max at future travel experience if you want to connect with Kevin and the Innovation Hub.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_00: Good morning, Kevin.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the show.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_01: Good morning.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for having me.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_00: How's everything there in Dallas?
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: Everything's great, beautiful day.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: So uh excited, excited for what's to come.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_00: Indeed, and we're looking forward to bringing the uh FTE Global there in a in a few months' time and can't wait to get going with uh what's what's gonna be a big event.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we're excited uh to welcome the the industry here to Dallas.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_01: So it'll be uh it'll be a definitely a great event in September.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_00: So I hope you've got some room spare at your house for me.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we'll have a little party, it'll be fun.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_00: It'll be good.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_00: I think they're legendary, the parties that you and Darren put on.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_00: So, right, let's uh get cracking with today's show and the interview.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, Kevin, you have done a phenomenal job as the captain of FT's Innovation Hub and really keen to know as someone at the forefront of emerging trends and technologies, what are some of the biggest opportunities um with technology right now in the hottest innovation areas you see for the industry at the moment?
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, uh so I think from if you think about this from an innovation, FT Innovation Hub perspective, it's not the biggest opportunities.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think they're less about any one single technology.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_01: I think they're really more about where several technologies are starting to come together around real aviation challenges.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_01: So AI, of course, is one of the biggest areas right now.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_01: But the more interesting shift, I think, in AI is moving from you know something people uh experiment with um to something that's becoming embedded into actual workflows.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_01: And that could mean helping teams make faster decisions, um, you know, uh understand issues earlier, reduce complexity, and um, you know, personalize that passenger passenger journey.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_01: And um, you know, I I think I think you're really gonna start to see um AI more embedded in those workflows and and really starting to to uh help you know our pe you know our people and customers.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um so it's sort of kind of working alongside employee talent rather than replacing it.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I think I think it's I think it's you're gonna start to see in um you know one of the trends I'm I'm keeping an eye on is more about technology and service of people uh and how it becomes a tool uh that can really help help people versus you know relate replacing people.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_01: Now, there are areas where I believe AI, you know, is you know is going to replace um people here and there, but I think we need to be looking at this as how we can uh use it more as a tool because I think that that empathy and that human-to-human interaction is still an important um part of our industry.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_00: And if you could you share some examples of um actual uh rollouts and and where that's happening at uh at airports, some some of that kind of complementary AI and human to improve the passenger journey.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, you're you're starting to see um I think you're starting to see right now AI is is more um in kind of those chatbot customer service type solutions at the moment.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I think I think you're starting to that's where that's where it feels safe right now, and that's where we can start to really see AI play a role and and really kind of um support customers.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_01: And it's it is playing alongside as a tool to to the industry because our customers can quickly get information, quickly get it at their fingertips and what they need, but they can still also get to human if they need to as well.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_01: And so right now it's it's I don't necessarily think it's at the point where it really is that tool working alongside the employees.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_01: I think we're we're taking it step by step and slowly getting there.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_01: And right now, you're really seeing it more show up in kind of those chatbot and in customer help and customer service type areas or custom where uh customers can really get that data and have it available at their fingertips when they need it.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_00: Excellent stuff.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_00: What what else are you seeing out there and is is kind of at the priority list there for Innovation Hub to look at this year?
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, another major area I think is around autonomy and robotics, um, especially around the ramp um uh area with baggage, ground handling, just the airport operations in general.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, the the environments where the work is physically demanding, it's it's time sensitive, it's safety critical, uh, and it's very complex and highly variable, right?
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_01: So the opportunity is not, as we as you mentioned, it's not about replacing people.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_01: It's really improving the safety and the consistency and the visibility and resilience and in really those complex parts, complex parts of the operation.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's an another area that um you're starting to see really take some shape um when it comes to uh operations in the industry right now.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_00: And what what would your reaction be or your response be to uh a kind of a skeptic, I guess, who would say, because of that ramp area being so uh intensive and varied in what in what's going on to the aircraft and the types of aircraft that you could never replicate that with autonomy.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um what what do you what do you say to someone who just uh is a naysayer, I guess, on this?
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I would say um I would say you're right, but let us let us have the conversation and show you that it it can.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think I think it's okay to be a naysayer.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's okay to say this isn't gonna work.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_01: And that's why it's so important when you're going and testing and trying these new technologies, you're bringing those people along for the ride with you.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_01: So they they truly understand how it works, they they truly understand the value and and where it's gonna provide support and and make their jobs safer and their and their lives easier and reduce the friction.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_01: So it's okay to be naysayers in this space right now, and it's it's up to us to help introduce it in a way that allows them to better understand the technology, not just force the technology upon them.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I think if we do that the right way, those naysayers are are probably gonna be more of the champions to to want to see some of it come come to light.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_01: So I I think it's okay to push back.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's okay to be a naysayer and say this isn't gonna work.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um because you're you're you're the expert.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_01: You're you're then asking the right questions, you're then pushing us harder.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_01: And it allows us to think differently when we go out and we put some of these new technologies in place.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: That's really interesting, Kevin.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_00: I think we've spoken on it before, uh, you and I.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: But that part though, what perhaps often is is missing in in people's uh perception of what it takes to roll out a new technology, the the uh the willingness to kind of get the the frontline workers on board is one of the last things that gets considered.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_00: What why is that and what where does it work really well?
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_00: What leaders habits do you think um can help in terms of winning that popular buy-in and turning the naysayers into champions?
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so again, it goes it goes back to the idea of technology and service of people and one of the trends I continue to look at.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: And the goal, like I said, should not be to introduce technology just because it's new and bright and shiny and impressive.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: It really should be to use technology to reduce friction and improve visibility or make things safer.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_01: You know, time and time again hear this those same terms, and it that then gives the people more time and space to really focus on things that humans do best, right?
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: Empathy and judgment and problem solving, coordination.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I think um, you know, where it really, really helps is we already talked about it, bringing employees into the conversation early.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_01: But I also think it's about being honest um about the purpose and the value and why we're doing this and and helping help help the employees understand why this is going to be better for them and help them understand how this is going to be better for them.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_01: And and don't feel like technology is being done to them, feel like it's being done for them and to help them.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's it's just a matter of ensuring that that trust is there, you're being open and honest with them, and and you're listening and understanding where their concerns are and and really working with them, you know, through that versus trying to force the technology on them.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_00: And if you do that, if you follow that uh that gospel that you you've spoken of there, how effective, how much can that transform your chances of delivering implementation right in your experience?
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_01: It it can make a really big um a big difference when it comes to implementation.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_01: You know, if you've got if you've got a product or solution or technology that people believe in and they and and and they recognize how it's going to make them better, they become the champions, and then they are they are the ones helping um roll it out or helping others understand.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_01: They become you know the experts, and then they start to teach and share with others, and it just kind of then propagates through the rest of the operation.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_01: So it's it's it's extremely important to make sure they're on board up front.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_01: And if not, then you know those people could be the ones several others look up to or look to them for you know where to go and what to do.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_01: And if you see them and say, oh no, this is not gonna work, this is bad, you're gonna have the same, you're gonna have those people kind of following in those same footsteps.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_01: But if you got them as champions, others are gonna also recognize and see the value too.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: So it comes with that attitude and go comes back to the honest being honest, um, being trustworthy and and and just ensuring they are um along from the ride from the very beginning.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_01: And and it can make a very, very big difference whether it's gonna be successful or not.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I think that's why that's why we go out and we test and we learn um and we do things in real world environments because otherwise we wouldn't be able to answer a lot of those questions.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_00: And how would you hold handle that conversation with me if I was saying an operative um at a uh out at a ground handler or an airport?
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: I try a bit of role play here.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_00: But if I said to you, Kevin, uh what you're proposing, that that new beat of technology sounds great, but you know, what's it gonna mean for me?
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_00: I'm worried about my job, I'm worried about my future.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm sure you've had this in your your career in aviation.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_00: How would you handle that that kind of pushback where you where you're trying to launch something you think is for the benefit of the operation?
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, um, you know, I think I I I think it goes back to um being honest and telling them, hey, this is gonna make things easier for you, not harder.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_01: It's gonna reduce the friction for you.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's it's going to um help you do your job better.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_01: And and let's let's work on it together and let's understand it together and and and provide me with your very honest open feedback as we do this.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's having that dialogue up front and then also recognizing we're gonna continue to have that same dialogue throughout the test um is what is is what helps in those in those situations.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_01: And uh look, I'm not gonna say every time you do that, it's we're gonna we're gonna win everybody over every single time.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_01: You never are.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it it it is it is what it is, right?
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_01: But I think as as long as you're having that open dialogue and the in the conversation with them, you you're gonna learn a lot.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_01: And as you is as you learn, it's gonna help us make that solution or product or technology even better.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and if we continue to get those wins, hopefully you can you can transition you know those people from the naysayers to be more positive and open to it.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_01: But um at the end of the day, I think it's it's us having an open dialogue throughout throughout the uh the test.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I look at honest view when you were speaking to me there.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_00: I think if you that language you used around now, how is this going to affect us?
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_00: And they it would make me feel like I had a stake in what was happening rather than being a bystander that something happened too.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I think like you said at the beginning, that's so important in any change to feel like you have some ownership of it.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_00: So that's good.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_00: And Kevin, you've you obviously uh alongside being the captain of our um innovation hub, you're head of emerging trends there at Southwest.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_00: And what what kind of attributes do you think that you have that make you so um suited to that role?
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_00: What what does it take to be really good in that field?
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_00: That's uh modesty is probably one because you're gonna say no, aside from modesty.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I I think a couple of things.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_01: I think um one is is just the the the passion I have um in disaviation in general, right?
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_01: I mean it's just the the love for for travel and um and my parents loved to travel when I was a kid, right?
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_01: And they made it a priority for my brother and I to see the world and experience different cultures and and try different foods and really step outside our bubble, right?
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: And and I think um, you know, that really helped uh with you know me really just have that passion for travel.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_01: And then on top of that, um I'm just I'm curious.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, when we'd go on those trips, my parents told me I would I would open every drawer, push every button, look and look around every corner in the room and just trying to figure out how everything worked.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_01: And and when we were out exploring and and looking to these new cities, I just wanted to understand why things were done this way or what why why this place was different, or how things were, you know, how these experiences came together.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I was always asking those kind of questions and really just trying to understand.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think really it's about curiosity.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um and and just continuing to have that curiosity, just it's what motivates me and keeps me excited, and and then also having kind of the passion for the industry, it it brings it all together and makes makes this kind of role just a ton of fun.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: And what age were you when you thought this is for me, I want to carry on you know, working around aircraft and in this industry that I'm transiting through?
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's interesting.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um I've always loved airplanes, always been fascinated by airplanes.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_01: And but when I when I went into school um into you know to college, I I decided to study computers.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I really thought it was interesting, you know, and started to learn how to write code and and and so I went into a computer um kind of world and and my first job was writing some programs and doing some IT work, right?
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_01: And it was in tele in the telecom industry of all industries.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so it was really more about uh at that point, um, you know, fueling kind of that um that curiosity around what I could build and how I could create it.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_01: And that's kind of what got me excited.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_01: But then then um, you know, I kind of I kind of realized it wasn't as exciting as as I thought it was gonna be.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I I looked for a kind of a transition, and that's you know, we're luckily um, you know, Southwest Airlines was in my backyard, and I was like, hey, you know, let me let me get with an airline.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_01: I'd love, I would love to, you know, get into that world and that in that uh industry.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_01: And so I was lucky enough to be able to transition over there and and you know uh work through several different kind of roles within the company and and really found um kind of the right spot where I am now.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and it really fuels that curiosity and and really keeps me going and motivated because every single day is something new and different.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and and your love for it really shines through when you're hosting our meetings and the pyramid for FT on stage.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_00: So we'll yeah, keep it going, keep it going.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's great.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, employee-led innovation, went back to our topic of of the workforce role in change.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I'd be interested to see where you know it's not perhaps the the front and center of industry discussion, but how powerful is it?
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_00: And can you share some examples of where it's led to a really strong uh performance-enhancing gain for an operation to to hear an idea from their frontline employees?
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, um you know, employee-led innovation, I think, um I think I mentioned it before.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's you know, don't go in there making people feel like technology is being done to them, right?
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_01: It's uh if if employees feel like a tool is being dropped into their world without their input, you know, they're they're not gonna be excited and they're gonna be resistant to it.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um and and I also would say don't assume that because a technology works in a demo, it's gonna work in in the operation, right?
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_01: And so you kind of thinking about both of those, um uh, you know, employees themselves, they're the ones that are on the front line.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_01: They're the ones that work um day in and day out and see where the issues are.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's incredibly powerful because they're the ones that are closest to the work.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um and they see the friction before anyone else does.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_01: So they know where the process breaks down, they know where the workaround exists.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I think one of the mistakes companies can make is assuming you know, innovation only comes from a strategy team or a lab or a formal transformational group.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_01: And those things, don't get me wrong, can be valuable, but some of the best innovation really starts with the employees.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the you know the challenge is that employee innovation doesn't just happen because you ask for ideas, you have to kind of create conditions for it and where employees feel safe and can raise those ideas and um and and feel comfortable talking about those ideas.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_01: And then, you know, it's it's at that point, it's the employees can really start to describe the problem, uh, and they may not know what the right way to solve it is.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_01: And that's where groups like emerging trends can come in and help and come in and provide the support.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: But I think they're the ones, they're the ones that see it every single day.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_01: So it's important to be listening to what your people are saying, what the employees are saying.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: Go in and and and sit with them and do a day in the life and actually work the job with them and understand it yourself.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_01: And then you then you can.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Really get to then you can see where those challenges are as well, and you can really understand those challenges and then start to work with the employees to really find ways to solve those for them.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it's important that you're always listening to those that are on the front line because they're the ones that are living it every single day.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_00: And like you say, you and I imagine this is something you do personally, but you spend the time as a leader getting out there and walking a mile in their shoes, being in their environment, understanding the challenge as they see it.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, 100%.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, the the the people closest to the work are often the often closest to the opportunity, right?
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_01: So our job is to make sure their insights, um, their um their voice has somewhere to go, and then we can we can help you know provide that support to see what we can do to make things better.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_00: Make sure you register today to join us at Apex Future Travel Experience EMEA 2026 on the 9th to the 11th of June in Dublin.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_00: This is the event that is a definitive gathering for airlines, airports, and technology leaders who want to drive digital transformation, customer experience, and operational innovation at scale.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_00: The event is co-located with FTE Ancillary and Retailer, where we bring together Airports Airlines retailers and technology partners to unlock next generation revenue opportunities at scale.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_00: Sign up, go to future travel experience.com, or you can email me max at future travelexperience.com for more information.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_00: If you want to discover great content, outstanding creativity, and strong collaboration amongst your peers, and make a date with Dublin this June.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_00: I'll see you there.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_01: So I this is this is uh in our industry, it's it's a tough one.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think when you when you talk about this with startups, the first step is really recognizing that startups um and and companies like ours within aviation, airports, airlines often operate at very different speeds and with very different constraints.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I think you know, startups may be moving quickly, trying to prove traction, you know, with customers and they can iterate fast and and they're very agile.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_01: And and then you've got airlines and airports and others who are operating in a very safety critical, highly regulated, complex environment where the cost of getting something wrong can be very, very high.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so if you want to create a more fertile ground, we have to help both sides kind of understand each other better.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that means being clear about the problem you're trying to solve, um, about the environment the startup would be kind of entering and the constraints they need to design around.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, it's not, we can't just go in and say, show us something innovative.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: We need to give startups enough context to really aim at and identify the problem.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I think for startups, it means understanding that um a good product is only part of the equation.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um they need to be ready to work through, you know, the the security and the privacy and the legal and procurement and and change management and frontline adoption.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_01: There's so much there.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_01: And it can feel slow, but in in our in aviation, those steps exist for a reason.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I think if we can both start to better understand each other in some of those senses, I think it's gonna be more successful to be able to work with these startups.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_00: And you're seeing that on the group, right?
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_00: The the hub work.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we see that collaboration's taking shape.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_00: 100%.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, um, and I think what's been great is you you see it within the hub is is both sides are being honest with each other up front and early.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I think that's what that's what really helps.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, we don't need aviation to move like a startup.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um we need better, we just need the better bridges between startup speed and aviation discipline.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I think by bringing those startups into the conversations within the FT innovation hub and and the rest of the industry having those conversations with the startups, you are having that open, honest conversation.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and everybody is learning from each other.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_01: And it allows, you know, allows us to work with these startups and and these startups um better understand our industry and the complexities that go with it.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um Apex Future Travel Experience as a brand, we're focused on enhancing the passenger journey of tomorrow.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, what what are your views on what passengers are going to want?
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_00: Because what we what what people are like today, the expectations today, I I guess it's gonna be very different with another generation or two coming behind.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_00: If my kids are anything to go by.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think um, you know, you hear everybody always talks about oh, AI and biometrics and immersive experiences and autonomous mobility, right?
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_01: Those I think all those things are gonna play a role, but I think what is gonna matter most to passengers is um they want the journey to feel uh easier, uh more more predictable and less stressful.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_01: I I think passengers want confidence.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_01: Uh they want to know you know what's happening, where do they need to be, what's changed, uh, what are their options when something doesn't go as planned, right?
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_01: So there's you know a lot of the opportunity in the future uh passenger journey is not just adding more technology, it it is it's using the technology to reduce some of that uncertainty.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I think I think personalization is gonna matter, um, but it has to be useful.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_01: It it cannot feel um intrusive or um uh I think I've said a few times like like technology for technology's sake, right?
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_01: The best the best personalization may be as simple as giving them the right information at the right time, right?
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_01: Being contextually aware of what's going on and helping a customer recover from a disruption.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I I think I think that, you know, to me is is really where we're gonna kind of see the journey of tomorrow.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_01: And and data and AI and and personalization and autonomous mobility, all that's gonna play into it.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_01: By the end of the day, it's gonna be personalized to make sure it fits that customer's journey.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_00: What are your thoughts on some of the cornerstones of the journey as it is now?
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_00: I'm thinking, you know, things like we we work with the baggage innovation working group as well, but is it still gonna be the norm that that we take our luggage to the airport building, we check it in?
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, all is that about to be completely revolutionized, or am I being a bit too uh out there with that statement?
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I don't I don't think you're out there with this statement.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_01: I think those I think those are the kind of questions we should be asking ourselves.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's it's it's very hard to go in and to completely change a baggage handling system at an airport, right?
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you just don't have a green field to be able to go and do it.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_01: So if you took if you shut down a baggage handling system, you are you are kind of shutting down the operation there, right?
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_01: Because it just you got to be all your bags and really need to go.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_01: So it's difficult, but it's it's the right questions we should be asking.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_01: And and and we really need to be understanding what really are the challenges within that passenger journey?
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_01: Where are those friction points that we can make easier?
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_01: So it might not be overhauling the baggage handling system, but there could be opportunities within it or before it or after it that we can bring some of these new ways of thinking and technologies um to the forefront that make it easier for the customer, make it easier for that for that journey.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, I I do think there are going to be, you know, opportunities where um, you know, customers could could drop their bag off where they park and it gets to their destination, right?
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, there's ways to do that.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I think we've explored some of those.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's just it's not necessarily what we hear from customers is a challenge in their travel journey right now, right?
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it's us just better understanding where those challenges are, and then how can we ensure we are reducing the friction in those areas?
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and you know, that could mean, okay, now we're gonna have uh autonomous baggage vehicles, you know, more quickly bringing transfer bags or getting them back to the customer.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_01: But uh, I think we need to really make sure we're understanding those challenges and not trying to just put this this technology out there to because it's the next big thing that we keep talking about.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so true.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_00: So true.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, Kevin, if I could grant you, I'll be the the genie in the bottle for you here, one wish to improve our industry.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um what what would it be and why?
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um you'd grant me one wish.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um at the end of the day, if you hear what we should do, there'd never be a disruption ever again in the industry and it would flow smoothly, right?
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_01: Which you know that would be ideal from everybody.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_01: But I think you know, to improve the industry, then I really think it would be is how do we get better at at learning together?
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um as I said, it's a complex industry.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_01: Each each airline, each airport, each um, each vendor is trying to solve different pieces of that complexity.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_01: And and too often we all we all learn the same lessons separately.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we're testing similar ideas, we're running into similar barriers and discovering similar constraints, but we don't do a good job of learning and sharing together.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the industry would be faster if we had kind of more honest and practical sharing around what's working, what's not working, what it actually takes to bring these new ideas to life.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_01: And that's one of the reasons you know I really value the FTE community and the innovation hub, is it creates a space for us, you know, airlines and airports and startups and suppliers and the vendors to come together and have those conversations.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, I think the future of aviations is it's it's too much and too complex for just one organization to figure it all out alone.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think if we can be better at that collective learning and we can continue to lean on the FTE working groups to to really you know bring those bring those teams together, it creates a great space for us to learn together.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I think if we're learning together, then we're gonna be able to make the industry better together.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, definitely.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_00: No one's gonna solve this in a silo in isolation, it's gonna be um by by cooperation as a group, right?
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's so important.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, Kevin, you've got a lovely um line on your your bio on LinkedIn I was reading, where you said that you you're not just focused on what's new but what's next.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um how does the layperson tell the difference?
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_00: Because you know, you you're very experienced in emerging trends, but are there any tips you can give our listeners here on you know differentiating between what's new and what's sexy and and what's actually gonna make a difference that you should be focusing on?
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, um it you're right, it is it is um it is kind of uh a gray line, it's kind of blurred in in what's new, what's next.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um you know I think it's for me when you're looking at what what is next, it's what problem is is this technology starting to solve better than before?
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_01: Uh what's what's changing in the market that that makes this more possible now?
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_01: You know, where are we where are we seeing um adoption outside of our industry um that could maybe that could could eventually translate into our world?
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_01: You know, where where do you start to see uh VC dollars going um and and investments going?
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, it's it's looking at some of those um uh some of those changes and markers to kind of say, okay, what what is next?
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um and and you know, as you start to look at those and ask some of those questions, you kind of get a chance to see what is next.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um and and it's it, you know, like with AI, it might be a new technology, but look how quickly we went from you know gen AI to Gen Tech AI, right?
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_01: It's like it's new, but guess what?
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_01: Here's what's next.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_01: And we're talking about what's next again, right?
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's it's just making sure you're thinking about um, you know, seeing those indicators and having those conversations and just seeing what's happening outside of our industry.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_01: It's not, you know, we are not the first to adopt in the aviation industry.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's really just trying to trying to keep your your head on a swivel and trying to you know get your hands in everything you can and just asking some of those questions to really see what is starting to come next.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_00: Which comes back down that that habit you have, that trait of curiosity, keeping your mind open and asking questions, um, being explorative, um is a really good mindset to be in.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's yes, it definitely is fun.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, if you're if you are curious and always thinking um and wanting to learn, you're you're gonna see a lot of what's out in the world and and it's it's fun, but it's also it's you have to recognize it's not it's not always easy.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um you gotta be able to connect the right dots.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and there's a lot to have to sift through um to really find what's going to matter and make a difference.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's fun, but you know, it's it's it's tough to always kind of kind of be able to see really what is next and new.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but at the same time, there's some really there are some really cool things out there.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and you meet some really amazing people.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_01: And it just it's so refreshing to see and and meet some of these founders and and you know, these entrepreneurs that have such wonderful minds and the way they think and the products and solutions they're coming up with.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I just learning from just learning from them goes a long way too.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_01: It might not ever be a technology solution that's gonna solve a problem, but just learning from some of these people in the in in this industry and other industries, it just it really helps you um feel good about the work you're doing because you know there is there is some really there are some really great things happening out there that are really gonna change the world and really really make us better.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_00: That's and I can't let you go without asking you about what's coming up with the innovation hub and um plans for Dublin and beyond.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so yeah, we're excited.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we've got um, you know, in Dublin, we we um meeting um there at the university UCD there in Dublin.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_01: Uh we've got some some uh great great lineup.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna bring some startups in, some conversations around what's happening in in kind of the innovation space.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we're uh we're talking about uh some additional conversations in one of our upcoming meetings around autonomous uh operations and autonomous vehicles and and really seeing, you know, understanding what's happening in the industry and um and where that's going.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_01: Uh excited, uh like you mentioned earlier on, to bring uh FT Global to my backyard here in Dallas.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_01: I am I am I just I can't wait.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_01: I've I've been trying to trying to get it here for a while.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_01: So it was it was wonderful to hear it it's coming.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_01: And from the Innovation Hub, you know, we um at Southwest are gonna are gonna host the Innovation Hub members at our at our campus.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_01: And we've got some really cool things lined up and have a great team really, really kind of supporting that effort.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_01: And we're excited to have to have them on our campus and hear from from some of our leaders.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_00: As are we, as are we, and uh it's been a real treat, Kevin.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for your time.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_00: You know, love you and your cure, curiosity and your passion.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_00: And um, please do check out um Kevin.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_00: He'll be there in Dublin and the Innovation Hub.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_00: We'll send put some details in the show notes and um wish you all the best.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_00: Kevin, looking forward to catching up with you in person in Dublin.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_01: I'm looking forward to it.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I enjoyed the conversation and and and thank you for continuing to uh you know bring this industry together and collaborate.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm excited, I'm excited what's what's to come.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you very much.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.