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Unmasking Healthcare Costs and Reform at Prisons · The SEANC View

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Music.
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Hello, and welcome to another edition of the Scenic View podcast.
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I'm Jonathan Owens, your communications director here at Scenic.
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I have Artis Watkins, our executive director, in here today,
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as well as Sam Klein, our podcast producer.
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Suzanne's not with us this week, Suzanne Beasley. She's had a pretty busy week,
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and Artis, you actually got involved a little bit in the lobby this week as well.
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Well, yeah, and before we get into that, Suzanne, I hope you get well.
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Well, I do have to say, Suzanne is laid out with, I'm going to tell all your
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business, Suzanne, since you're not here.
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Doesn't appear to be COVID, but she sounds awful. So I saw a story last night
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that people are getting influenza A and then getting B at the same time.
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It's like head, it's respiratory nastiness.
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It's not the bird flu, is it? I don't know.
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I've been washing my hands every single second. If I didn't know,
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you know, I would tell it, apparently, despite her not being here to defend herself.
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But my point in saying all of this is, Suzanne, get better.
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But also, Suzanne is bad to the bone because yesterday, as she's laid up and
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sounding the way she sounded, we were calling different legislators about a bill.
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And first of all, I want to tell you, some of those legislators she talked to were so sweet.
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And also kind of gave medical advice, not medical advice as in illegal medical
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advice, but, you know, like in a nice way, like your friends would give you
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tips on, hey, you might try this, that, or the other.
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Very, very sweet. And the legislature really is a family at the end of the day,
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even though we all scrap sometimes.
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It's a family. We all care about each other. We don't want to see bad things happen.
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So she had that good experience of people being so nice.
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But then a funny one, another one of our lobbyists, Flint Benson,
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was told by a lawmaker that,
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One of your colleagues called me today and she sounds like she has pneumonia.
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So I was going to ask that, like, is that a thing over there?
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Because you guys are kind of all in the same building walking around.
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Is it common for colds to start circulating?
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Oh, yeah. I mean, you know. It's like a school, huh? Yes, because if you're
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sitting in committee, you're sitting really close to other people.
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But mainly, people get concerned. If somebody's not there, it is weird.
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It's like this immediate concern is, you know, is so-and-so okay.
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So get better, Suzanne. And thank you to the lawmakers who had concern about Suzanne this week.
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So I've listened back to a few of our episodes and I've realized I need to like
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slow down at the beginning and kind of set the scene a little better.
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So today is February 6th. It's a Thursday, if that helps you.
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And finding out where we are in the world, that's, I guess, what is this,
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the second week of the legislature?
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Well, it's the first full week. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, because Suzanne said last
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week was skeletal sessions.
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Yeah, you know, things are cooking, though. Yeah. And we've seen some bills be filed.
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I know you said you've made maybe headway on the whole health plan situation
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going on or you've been able to educate a few folks.
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I think that what's happening is and this isn't necessarily related to the state
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health plan, but we've done a lot of discussion on this podcast of how North
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Carolina is number one in the country in terms of cost.
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It's the most expensive state in this nation to buy health care.
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And as Senator Bergen pointed out in committee yesterday,
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to be the most expensive state in this nation for health care is to be the most
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expensive place in the world for health care. Yeah.
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Because this nation is more expensive than the rest of the world.
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Just think about that with huge... Oh, we've got wonderful facilities.
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No, I mean, in other states, you would think that... No, I meant in America,
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we've got wonderful facilities.
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We've got wonderful facilities here in North Carolina. We have a lot of access to health care.
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But again, we are number one in cost, and we are near the bottom,
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three from the bottom in outcomes, meaning how well the patients do when they
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go to get that care. So those seem to be connected.
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And one interesting thing, Senator Bergen, the chair of the health committee
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in the Senate, and as he noted yesterday, the state of Massachusetts is at the bottom in terms of cost.
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So they're the least expensive, but their outcomes are the best.
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So, you know, So the question was being bandied about yesterday. Why is that?
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And we looked at it because, of course, our big beef with health care in North
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Carolina, and it really impacts our state employees, is that the state health
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plan is 10 percent of the market and we, by law,
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cannot have access to what we're paying.
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These are secret contracts, which, by the way, many members of the legislature
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yesterday had no idea because, I mean, no one would know.
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If you're not over there trying to get these contracts from the health plan,
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you don't have reason to know. But that was interesting to me.
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If anybody's interested at home, it's North Carolina General Statute 135-48.10,
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and it's the legislation regarding the state health plan.
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It says that medical records of patients in the health plan will be kept confidential,
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but also vendor contracts.
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Yeah, you think about Massachusetts, you always think everything is more expensive
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there. Right, but their health care is way more affordable.
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Well, in an interesting twist, we were curious, okay, we can't get access to anything.
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Everything is kept secret on behalf
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of the industry here. Let's check Massachusetts out. in Massachusetts.
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In 2021, they passed a law saying if you go to a provider, they have to tell
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you how much it's going to cost under your insurance plan.
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And if they don't, they get fined $2,500 per incident where they didn't do it. I like that.
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Right. But also, you have to wonder. And by the way, that was passed in 2021,
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went into effect January 1, 2025.
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So I think they gave the industry a very long time to have to get ready to share what they're charging.
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You have to think that kind of commitment and seriousness about it has gone
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well for them because they've got affordable health care.
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Not affordable, but more affordable. Yeah.
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Do we know if before this was passed, they were still the most affordable with
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the highest quality or if it changed after this law was passed?
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After 2021 when it was passed? Yeah.
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I don't know. I hadn't gone back and looked at Forbes that always does these
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rankings of states with regard to their health care. And there's three things they look at.
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Cost, accessibility, how many places you have to go to get care, and then the outcomes.
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How well do people do with the care once they get it?
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So every year they put that out. I haven't gone back to look before 2021,
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but obviously there's been a commitment for a while in Massachusetts to saying
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the public has a real interest in knowing what they're paying. Yeah.
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So we were asked a couple of weeks ago in one of the interviews we were doing,
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if other states have a reference-based pricing model, that's kind of what we were pushing for.
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And it was funny because that afternoon I received a Google alert that's a story exactly on that issue.
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And it says that Washington State, Oregon, Montana, and South Carolina all have
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initiatives in the works or actual legislation about reference-based pricing
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for their state employee health plans. Is this something that we would see here?
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No, we're not going to see it here.
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You'd have to have support from the treasurer's office to see it here.
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And the treasurer's office is really silent on that.
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In fact, yesterday, Senator Bergen and some others had a bill in committee saying,
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look, the cost is too high in this state for health care.
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We've got to do something about it. It's killing small employers.
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We know it's killing the health plan.
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All of that's true. And he and some other legislators put forth a bill that
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said, what we're going to do is there can't be any new health mandates for coverage
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for insurance companies to have to cover these things.
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If there's a new mandate that's thrown out there on insurance companies through
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employers, then that mandate has to go on the health plan and the legislature
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has to appropriate the money to support that mandate.
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Obviously, they're not throwing money at the health plan right now.
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They're talking about trying to get the employees to pay more.
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So that means no more mandates on coverage.
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And what does that mean to the average person?
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It means you may have a condition that if it was mandated that they cover it,
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in essence, it would be so costly that it wouldn't happen. And so I don't see
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how, and I said it in committee, I think their intentions are right.
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They want to bring health care costs down. But we maintain and set in committee
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with the state health plan being 10% of the market.
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The way you bring the cost down is you make it transparent and open what we're paying.
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Because if you can rip off the state health plan, you can rip off everybody
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else. We know we're paying too much.
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We're number one in paying too much. Like, this is our distinction.
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And it's not the first year we've held the title of number one in terms of paying too much.
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So it's not a title you want to. Yeah, I don't.
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Mandates don't appear to be killing the health insurance industry. And how would we know?
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Because we don't know how much those mandates actually cost them to fulfill giving treatment for.
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So the problem with that is we don't want to see feel-good legislation that
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actually doesn't change anything.
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Again, I think it was well-intentioned. by Senator Bergen and everybody else that was involved.
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I don't think one of them had the wrong intention, but we asked if you wanna
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do something with this bill that we think would really make a difference,
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add a section saying that the state health plan costs would have to be public.
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So our audience is obviously our members and it's the state employees.
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I mean, I hope other folks are listening and I know the answer to this,
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but I'll ask you first, why does that matter to a specific state employee?
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OK, so if you right now, all we're hearing in terms of what to do with a half
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billion dollar shortfall, a whole, the health plans in the red for 500 billion by fall of 2026.
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And where do you think so far politicians are talking about getting that from?
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And to be specific, the state treasurer, because that's the politician that
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matters in this scenario.
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You, the folks in the plan, you're always the place they want to go to get it
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because you're the low hanging fruit.
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You're easy. You don't have the political clout to fight back in the way that
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big insurance companies and other corporate interests do.
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You have very little voice in this scenario. And that's why Scenic's here,
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to be your voice in this scenario.
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So if you can't get those prices made public and things stay out of reach and
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people say, politicians continue to say, we can't afford this health plan.
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Well, you can't afford it, not because state employees are a sickly,
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awful bunch. You can't afford it because we're getting ripped off and nobody
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has to show us they're not ripping us off.
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And yet we know we're number one most expensive in the country.
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So this seems like a no brainer. Yeah. So our contention and if we could see
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what the prices are, bring sunshine to them, then people hopefully those prices
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would go down, which would cost the plan. Well, it would certainly make it harder.
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We know some people are charging more than three times what it takes to make
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a profit and run a hospital.
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Now, we don't know who they are and how many of them are charging it,
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but we know from the consultants that work with the health plan,
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there are some charging us and therefore charging state employees three and
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a half times what it takes to make a profit, a comfortable profit.
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So knowing that means it's that offensive that people would come to you and
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say, oh, what's another 25, 30 bucks for a state employee per month? What is it? It's gas.
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It's food. It's diapers.
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It's anything that's important. And why would we pay three times for anything?
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Why would the government pay three times for anything and not demand to know
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who are we paying this to and why?
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Do you think that the reliability of the plan as a customer,
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I guess what I'm trying to say is like they know they're going to get their
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money from the state health plan, so they charge what they.
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Oh, heck yeah. I mean, historically, that's how the rest of the market in North
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Carolina has been subsidized. Yeah, that's what I'm trying to say.
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Overcharging the health plan.
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And I'm not talking about anybody necessarily that's a player in it now.
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I'm saying historically it was talked about all over the legislature that that's
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exactly what was happening. And this is going back decades.
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Well, obviously, it's an issue. We'll keep we'll keep working.
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That's probably at least it's being talked about. Yeah.
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You know what I mean? Like, again, we'd love to see the bill change as it moves
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through the process. But at least Senator Bergen has put a bill out there and
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said it's not good to be number one most costly.
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We're going to try to do some things about it. So kudos to Senator Bergen.
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We really hope to work with him on this and we hope there's other legislators
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that'll say we're tired of it.
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And we're seeing so much of this, as we've said before, on the federal level.
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Hey, we're not going to pay these crazy amounts for some of the things the government's been doing.
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That's all we're asking here. Well, a constant question we always have is any
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movement on pay raises? What's going on with the budget? What are you hearing?
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Yeah, no word yet. Although every legislator that said anything about spending
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is being very clear that they would like to save a lot more.
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And obviously that they would like to spend a tremendous amount on Western North
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Carolina, on the rebuild and on putting people's lives back together and businesses back together.
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So between that, as we've said before, and the revenue that will not be coming
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in as a result of the storm, it's going to be very difficult.
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In fact, Governor Stein has recommended an amount to send to Western North Carolina
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that's even bigger than what the legislature has been bandying about this week.
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And so we are looking at, you know, obviously a lot of money,
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a lot of needs out in western North Carolina.
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That how that affects pay raises, we're going to find out.
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And by the way, speaking of Governor Stein, the governor's budget usually comes
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out in a long session in February.
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So we've been in contact with this office to ask about, you know,
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making sure we are having those discussions about everything that affects state
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employees in the budget.
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Man, that really just throws him right into the fire, huh? Like he's had less
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than a month to put that together.
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You think some work has been ongoing with the last administration?
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Well, and I think that's one of the areas where keeping Kristen Walker as the
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director of the budget OSBM director was probably a really helpful move for
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Josh Stein because she's done this multiple times under Governor Cooper.
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So she's going to know what she's doing. Do you think that the House not having
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a veto proof majority will give them a little more power in the budget process?
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Potentially. You still have what used to be known as the Main Street Democrats.
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There's four Democrats that people just aren't sure where they'll come down on budget issues.
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And we're still in that uncertain phase. It could help him.
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The raw numbers help him. But is the technical majority a functional majority? We'll see.
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Well, sounds like a fun, what do you think, six, seven months ahead?
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Well, actually, let me rephrase that.
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Is the technical supermajority or technical majority going to actually be a
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functional supermajority?
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I finally got it right. It only took three times. Yeah, we know what you mean, I think.
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No, but yeah, I think from the moment we heard that there's no longer a supermajority,
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I think you were kind of questioning that. I mean, a little skeptical.
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Yeah. I mean, you just don't know over there. And we'll see.
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I feel sure that both Governor Stein and Senator Berger and Speaker Hall are
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all staying in close contact with folks that could make the difference in that boat.
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Well, another issue that is a constant for us and not going away anytime soon
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is the issues at our prisons and our, you know, the safety of our correctional
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officers, especially with the whole vacancy crisis.
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We were fortunate enough to get First Vice President Wendell Powell and Deborah
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Harney in charge of our prison reform safety committee together for a little
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interview we recorded a few weeks ago.
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And we're going to play it right now. And I hope you can take something from it.
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We're joined today by First Vice President Wendell Powell and the Scenic Prison
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Reform Committee Chairperson Debra Harney.
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We want to talk a little bit about what's going on in our prisons and artists, you take it away.
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Well, there's been so much attention for years, for good reason,
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to what's happening with the safety of everyone inside our prisons because of understaffing.
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And that's that was way before COVID.
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Obviously, everything after COVID in state government became an understaffing
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problem. But the vacancies were high in prisons prior to that.
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And the two individuals we have with us have been in a huge part of the effort
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to educate folks about what's happening and to make it better.
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And so I would love to hear from y'all right now.
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Recently, there was the stabbing of a captain at Bertie, and that was not shocking to anyone out that way.
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Scenic had been hearing from folks at Bertie for quite some time,
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and this issue is not going away anytime soon.
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But Scenic is continuing to make efforts to not only bring awareness to it,
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but to suggest some kind of solution. So if y'all can enlighten us,
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I know both of you have been deeply involved in the work.
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Well, it's definitely unfortunate that a captain got stabbed.
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But if you look at the understaffing patterns, you have white shirts,
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which are the captains and lieutenants. We're on the floor.
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As a captain myself, I'm on the floor at my facility.
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Sometimes my lieutenants have to take a post. So we're out there searching.
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We're feeding. We're bringing in vehicles. We're doing trucks.
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We're, you know, we're doing everything that normal officers and sergeants would
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be doing. So we're right there in the fray.
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If we have to pull offenders out of the cell for cell extraction,
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sometimes we're assisting based on shortness of staff.
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So we are in harm's way more than what we would have been five or 10 years ago
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because we had more staff.
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So obviously, a lot of problems that we're facing in the state government,
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understaffing is the big issue, correct? Right. Yes.
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It's just that it can be deadly. Yeah. In your situation.
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Yeah. I mean, that captain was stabbed with a broken broom handle.
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So, I mean, even at my prison, we find shanks all the time. We find improvised weapons.
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I mean, they make weapons out of anything. And we've had a few assaults.
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So all it takes is the wrong time in the wrong situation. And there you go.
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So, Wendell, you've been on the podcast once before talking about the issue in prisons. Yeah.
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And by the way, Wendell Powell is our first vice president of Scenic,
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in addition to being someone very deeply involved in this move to make things
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better in prisons by working cooperatively and from an education standpoint with the departments.
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Because sometimes people don't want to tell department leaders everything that's
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going on. That's where Scenic can play a role.
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People sometimes are afraid that they'll look like complainers if they kind
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of tell everything that's going on. I think people don't want to ruffle the feathers.
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It's already a sore spot. And unfortunately, it's a spot that doesn't go away.
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And when you have leadership trying to do their best to manage the situation
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and work from their end and then we're working from our end,
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sometimes they don't like it thrown back in their face.
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So they don't like to hear about some of the issues, even though they know exists.
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It's like a constant reminder.
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So sometimes it just leaves a sore spot with them.
19:28
Well, tell us about some of the work you've done. I know that the work hasn't
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just been in-state. There's been a lot of outreach and work with folks in prisons
19:36
in other states because this is a problem nationwide.
19:39
Yeah. Recently, I was this past November, I met with one voice in Winston-Salem.
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We had a forum with formerly incarcerated and law enforcement from across the
19:49
country as to ways of making jails and prisons safer,
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how to create better relationships between officers and offenders and just how
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we can revamp the system to make it better for both sides.
20:02
Because the staffing does affect the offender's safety.
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And also, at the same token, we have to have better relationships because at
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the end of the day, those offenders are someone's mother, someone's brother,
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someone's cousin, uncles.
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They're getting out. And one day they need to have better recidivism.
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They need to have better ways of communication, better ways of moving through the system.
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And right now our system is archaic.
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All the systems across the United States are archaic, so they have to be revamped
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and looked at how to treat people better and not violate their rights?
20:32
I must say that North Carolina Department of Adult Correction is a little bit
20:37
ahead of the game as far as that is concerned.
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They're heavily into the re-entry. Last year, I partnered with and brought CNIC
20:45
and Prison Reform Committee with a group in Secure that was good partnership,
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I think, and the department partnered with them also.
20:54
And they were like-minded companies, agencies that enlighten the department
20:59
that re-entry is the way to go.
21:01
Otherwise, it's a perpetual cycle. Right. It's a cycle.
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And Debra, you did a great job because the DAC leadership was very happy about
21:09
how it turned out, and they were very engaged in how it went. So that is my hope, that
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Hopefully with my committee and with One Voice to North Carolina and have them
21:19
look at it the same way as when we partner with NCCARE.
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That's something that I talked to One Voice about. And that's something that
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we're working on doing a conference here and to bring awareness and to get resources
21:31
and to get some of our people on board.
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The DAC leadership and the community on board with just looking at corrections
21:38
differently and how we can get better sponsorships and create better partnerships
21:42
with the community. So they can shed the light on how correctional staff work
21:46
and how offenders are being treated.
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So, Sergeant Harney, the work that your committee started after the murders
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at Bertie in Pasquatank,
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I think it was eight years ago now, the work you started ended up in some pretty
22:00
meaningful legislative reforms that had not been in place at that time.
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And Suzanne, what do you think about current legislators? Do they know about
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the challenges people who are working in the system are facing right now?
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What do you think needs to be done? So obviously we will lobby that as far as
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the GR team goes, the government relations team goes on the ground.
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But I think one voice coming to North Carolina, that's huge for legislators
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to just to hear like you just you were talking about offenders and employees
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of the prison system, correctional officers and the safety.
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I'm not sure that legislators understand that to the level that they did after
22:35
the attacks at Bertie and Pasquatank.
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You know, we had Senator Steinberg in office at that time. He became a real champion for prisons.
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He visited every prison in North Carolina. He listened to people.
22:46
Danny Britt, Senator Danny Britt, and Senator Warren Daniel are chairs of that
22:50
JPS committee this year.
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And they're friendly to the plight. They understand.
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They're not new to what we've been working on. So I think we've got good people in place to work with.
23:01
Well, we were very lucky that the incident with the captain at Bertie recently
23:05
didn't end up being a fatality.
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But the concern we have for our members working in prisons is that there's so much still going on.
23:13
It feels like a matter of time unless something more drastic happens.
23:19
And what are do you all feel like that's an overreaction or is that closer to the mark?
23:23
I mean, it's pretty much spot on. You know, unfortunately, we don't have the
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luxury of saying if it's just when we're lucky. a lot of days.
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I agree. It's a win. And I think the public has no idea that it's some of these
23:37
prisons where we talk to people who work there.
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They say, look, the offenders are telling us you're going home because we're letting you.
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Because the staffing ratio is so bad that there's just no question that it really
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is a matter of whether or not the offenders are going to put up a fight,
23:55
as it were, and give more grief to the folks who work there.
23:58
And I think the offenders understand.
24:00
They understand the system way better than what people give them credit for.
24:04
They know the staffing patterns. They know when we have a lot of staff and they
24:08
know when we're very short because they'll come and say, hey, can we do this?
24:12
Because I know we're short. Are you going to let us do this?
24:14
Because I know we're short.
24:15
Yeah. Now there's the shortage rate. It's affecting the offender.
24:19
They can't do the daily things that they would like to do, you know.
24:23
So that's the part that's when it gets to the point where we cut off everything.
24:27
They can't go to the canteen. They That doesn't help morale.
24:31
Then that's when it's going to become a problem.
24:33
Well, then that comes back to y'all. Yes, then it puts us in danger.
24:36
That's right. And at that point, you're kind of opening the state up to even
24:39
more lawsuits and things, right?
24:42
Well, we're hoping the new secretary, Secretary Dismukes, you know,
24:46
we want her to know if she hears this, she's more than welcome to come on the
24:49
podcast. Hopefully we can have her on soon.
24:52
And in the meantime, I'm so glad y'all are here as a resource.
24:56
Oh, yes, we're here to help the department or, you know, reach out to the community
25:01
to gain resources as an organization.
25:04
We're here to help the state and, you know, protect our members.
25:07
And if doing so, we can help others, then that's what we'll do.
25:11
All right. Well, thanks for joining us and keep on doing what you're doing.
25:15
Thank you. Thank you. OK, that was a great interview with Wendell and Deborah,
25:19
if I do say so myself. I love to hear them. Well, I don't love to hear them
25:23
talk about prisons in that it can be really depressing and concerning,
25:27
but it's always interesting.
25:29
It is always interesting. And I admire Wendell's kind of courage to speak up.
25:33
He will tell you the truth about what's going on at the prisons.
25:36
And he's very open about it.
25:38
And let's end with a question of the week. I actually have a question of the
25:42
week this week for you guys.
25:44
Music.
25:50
Okay, so pretty easy to write down the middle question for you guys.
25:54
Who do you think is going to win the Super Bowl, or who are you pulling for?
25:58
Do you want me to go first?
25:59
Sure. I'm pulling for the Eagles, just because Jalen Hurts was my fantasy football quarterback.
26:06
And I'd like to see Saquon Barkley get a Super Bowl after how he was treated by the Giants.
26:11
And he's just an amazing runner. Not that I hate the Chiefs or anything. Don't come at me, Sam.
26:17
But, you know, it's time to see a new winner. So that's my take. Go Birds.
26:23
I think we all know I'm a Swifty. Definitely went over to the Chiefs kingdom
26:26
whenever Taylor and Travis started dating.
26:29
But I'm also just, I'm also pulling for them because I'd like to see them make
26:33
history and be the first team ever to do a three-peat.
26:36
Yeah. I like the idea of just seeing them make history. Let me ask you something.
26:41
If Taylor's boyfriend transferred to another team. I'd follow.
26:46
So your allegiance. I have a Swifty. My allegiance is to Taylor. It is not true.
26:51
Yeah, what if they didn't break up? Then I'd stop watching football. Oh, okay.
26:57
Have you seen that TikTok where it's like a little girl? She's like one or two
27:01
and she's like, her mom's like, who's your favorite football player?
27:03
And she's like, Taylor Swift. Yes.
27:06
That's how I think half the country is. No, I would turn back into who I was
27:10
before they started dating and just not watch football except for the Super
27:15
Bowl. This year, I actually watched a couple of Chiefs games when we were at convention.
27:18
There was one evening where we didn't have an event or anything.
27:21
And I was in there watching the Chiefs game.
27:25
Yeah. I don't know if I should even ask you. I know you don't really like either
27:28
one of them. I mean, I've been bitter since the 90s.
27:31
You're not a Texas fan. Well, no. I was a Houston Oiler for a long time.
27:37
Most people listening to this wouldn't even know what the heck is that because
27:40
they turned into the Tennessee Titans. since they left Houston.
27:45
I lived there for 10 years, and I didn't know that. Later, Houston got a new
27:48
team, the Texans, but I've never gotten into that. But what I do like is tight ends.
27:53
And so Taylor's boyfriend, obviously, Travis Kelsey being one of them,
27:58
and Dallas, is it Goddard?
28:01
Yeah, I like him. The Eagles. I like a tight end.
28:06
Because. Put that up. Yeah, because. Should we just have that as an intro clip
28:11
before we even start the episode? You see a tight end's not going to go out
28:14
and run some sort of really long route or something.
28:17
I love that they go, what, how long does a tight end go? Eight,
28:21
nine yards out in the flat, just boom.
28:23
Turn around. But turn around and just power through people. And I think that
28:27
it's so much fun to watch them. You know, they're tall and...
28:33
Okay.
28:34
It's in the beauty pageant. I just think the height, the hands,
28:40
and the power, that's an interesting position.
28:43
To me, that's always the most versatile position on the team.
28:47
And this game, whether, you know, I'm not a particular fan of either one,
28:52
I think it's going to be fun, though, because when you have two really good
28:55
tight ends, to me, the game is better.
28:57
Because it gives the quarterbacks more options. And this is going to be interesting.
29:03
Go ahead. This is also possibly redemption for the Philadelphia Eagles,
29:07
because two years ago, they played the Chiefs.
29:09
Yeah, they don't have a Kelsey on their team this year, though.
29:12
So Jason's not playing for them.
29:14
Mama Kelsey is still wearing her duo jacket. She has her red and green jacket.
29:19
So even though... I saw they asked Jason's wife who she's pulling for,
29:23
and she said definitely the Eagles, right?
29:25
She said that she loves the Eagles, but she's always pulling for Travis.
29:30
So she'll be pulling for the Eagles, but she's also pulling for Travis as an individual.
29:35
And Jason played another position for which I have so much respect, center.
29:39
Because I understand that's literally one of the hardest positions because you
29:45
just have to have so much brute force.
29:46
But you have to be so smart to be a good center. I love your in-depth knowledge
29:50
of football that I never knew about.
29:52
I'm from Texas, honey. I never knew of it for 13 years until this podcast. They may or may not.
29:57
I don't have that knowledge. We could have shared so much in the last.
29:59
We could share a lot. Although you know what I have to say about North Carolina? What's that?
30:05
I came to North Carolina and came in middle school.
30:08
But went all the way through middle and high school, not going to one basketball
30:12
game at my schools. I get to Carolina.
30:16
People are just walking around the football games like, who cares?
30:19
And I'm thinking, y'all, we need to participate.
30:23
The crowd is important. No one cares.
30:25
But when basketball season came, they said, we have to go camp out.
30:29
And I said, camp out where? To get your tickets.
30:31
Yes, to get tickets. And I thought, I don't even understand the game.
30:34
And everyone was horrified.
30:36
But instead of shunning me, the Carolina crowd.
30:40
And now I am more obsessive about the rules of basketball than I ever was about
30:45
football. I think it so much has to do with where you live.
30:48
That could be a good question. What's your favorite sport that you follow?
30:52
All of them. Best sport ever?
30:55
Curling. Oh, curling is cool. When they have the Olympics.
30:59
My dad thinks it's crazy. Hockey's not as exciting as curling.
31:02
It is when they start throwing punches at each other. You could,
31:05
oh, they could add that. I've found that hockey is awesome to watch in person.
31:10
Oh my gosh, I love it. And like terrible to watch on TV. That's just my opinion.
31:14
But there's also not as many streaming platforms that stream it in high quality,
31:18
which is why you're sitting there and you're like, why am I watching this?
31:21
But you go to an in-person game. Oh, they're fun.
31:24
Yeah. And rugby, I've started watching rugby.
31:27
Oh, wow. Is it because of Alona? I don't understand anything about rugby.
31:32
But y'all, it's interesting. I think lacrosse is pretty cool too.
31:35
Do you know who Alona is? Who? Alona? Marr? No.
31:39
She was on the women's Olympic rugby team. She was also on Dancing with the Stars. She is amazing.
31:45
Nuggets of information that i
31:48
get during these podcasts yeah she's making
31:51
you younger she's she and now i wish no
31:55
i haven't i haven't seen and you know what i need to add that to my repertoire
31:59
i think that might be harder to find on television probably because rugby men's
32:03
rugby is hard enough to find yeah but she just started playing for a team in
32:06
london she got she got picked up by a team in london and she's been on dancing
32:11
with the stars she was just on this past season of dancing with the Stars,
32:14
the same season that Steven Natarazic was on.
32:17
Well, okay, a gymnast, I would expect Dancing with the Stars,
32:20
that they would be extraordinarily graceful.
32:24
Rugby? They're just pure power. She blew up on TikTok while she was at the Olympics
32:30
because she was kind of just making funny little videos around the Olympic Village.
32:33
And then the women's team won bronze.
32:37
The U.S. women's team won bronze in the olympics and
32:40
they brought her onto dancing
32:43
with the stars along with steven natarazic and i
32:47
can't wait for the next olympics she was such a great time she was so much fun
32:50
she likes to she is very muscular she is very strong rugby i mean and she loved
32:56
her experience there because she got to tap into that feminine side of her that
33:00
she was just like no one ever sees me as feminine oh how awesome that's neat
33:04
i'll have to look her up and water polo Well,
33:07
the last Olympic sport I'm going to throw out, but y'all,
33:09
water polo, that is so exciting.
33:12
And the cardio, anyway, we'll have to do a whole Olympics podcast.
33:17
So the Olympics are in L.A. in 20, what, 2028? Yes. There's that.
33:23
Maybe we could do the podcast. Yeah, live from. So that was a sports talk for
33:29
the Senior View podcast. That was a lot, wasn't it?
33:30
Thanks for joining us this week. Go Super Bowl. Go Taylors.
33:34
No, don't go Taylors. I'll say it. Go Taylor's boyfriend. Let's go. All right. Thank you.
33:40
Music.