Latest / Providence Voice / Pockets of Paradise - In My Feelings (Unlikely Hope & Despair) - #033

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Pockets of Paradise - In My Feelings (Unlikely Hope & Despair) - #033 · Providence Voice

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome back to Pockets of Paradise podcast.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_02: I'm Larson Griffith with Megan Tedder.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_02: And we're so glad to be back with you.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_02: We've missed you guys.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_00: Let's get to it.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: Hey guys, welcome back to Pockets of Paradise.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_00: We missed you last week, but we're back in the saddle this week.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: We're happy to be back.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: Life threw some curveballs, but we're here.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: We're here.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: Still standing.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_00: Well, sitting, but yeah.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_01: We're here.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_01: We made it.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_00: But we missed you guys, and we're excited to um we're so close to wrapping up our series on emotions.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_00: We hope that you've gotten a lot out of it.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um they've been deeper podcasts.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: There's so much content.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: Uh honestly, each one could be its own mini-series, I think.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_00: So we've been trying to like cram things in.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: So I hope you don't feel like you're drinking from a water hose or from a fire hose.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: I hope it fits more like a water hose than a water hose.
• 0:59
  unknown: Yeah.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: Like a little um little stream.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: I hope you're learning some things about you and your soul and your emotions.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: We definitely are.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: And every time I go through this book, because we're doing going through the book, um, The Cry of the Soul by Dan Allender, and I read it years ago, and I've read it a few times since.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: And every time I go through it, I learned something new about myself, about God.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so basically, this whole book is talking about how God created emotions to bring us to Him.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: And God is an emotional being, He's not unsteady.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: He is His emotions are perfect and they're holy and they're good and they're what they should be, um, and they do what they're supposed to do.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_00: And then we have the ability to mess that up.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_00: And so we have the ability to have holy emotions, but we also have the ability to um have unrighteous emotions that that you know our sin nature is really easy to fall into.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: So we've done what are all the ones we've done so far?
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: We've done anger, um, we've done jealousy and envy, which I that was probably my favorite one.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um really?
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_00: I like anger too.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: That's a good one.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I was since anger was one that uh we talked about fear.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: That was uh so we did anger, fear, envy, and jealousy, and now we're on um despair, which sounds like it's not gonna be fun, but it's actually um hopeful when you get to what God's design.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_00: So um, yeah.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: So again, I'm gonna say our emotions are not our enemies to be silenced, they are invitations to bring our deepest experiences and longings into relationship with God.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_00: So they're the check engine light on your car saying, hey, there's something going on over here, you should probably check this out.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's not something to shame away or stuff, it's an invitation to be real with the Lord and let him do something with it.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because only he can only.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, especially with what we're talking about today.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: All of them, but today today, especially.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: So are you ready to get to it?
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_00: I think so.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: I think we just have to dive in.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_00: So me and Larson aren't good at small talk.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_00: If you hadn't caught on yet.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: So first we're gonna talk about abandonment uh and the wound of being left alone.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_00: And this touches so many people um uh through fatherlessness, through spouses leaving, through suicide, through people just abandoning their faith even in their communities.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like um could be friendships, it could be friendships, yeah.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_00: It could be children, prodigal children.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so abandonment comes in all shapes and sizes, yeah.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but it it shapes us every time we experience it.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_00: So what abandonment communicates to the heart and what the enemy would love for you to believe are things like um, I'm not worth staying for, or I'm on my own, I gotta figure this out by myself, or my needs are too much for other people.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, or if I let myself depend on someone, I will get hurt.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm gonna be hyper-independent.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_02: So um solitude.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yes goes back to solitude.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, and isolation, right?
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, isolation, that's worth it.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: So the same, same, the difference, same thing.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, even or he'll say something like, even God may leave me when I need him the most.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because we don't feel any sense of worthy.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_02: Or like to even have the attention of him.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: So we've we believe the lies that the enemy plants through the sins of other people.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, which is wild.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_00: So the sins of other the sins of the world and the brokenness of this world is the soil for his lies to take root in our hearts.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: And so abandonment is more than physical separation.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_00: It can be uh the experience of feeling emotionally, relationally, or spiritually left alone when we need connection most.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: So this is super fascinating with brain development.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: So we've talked about attachment theory on here before, but it is so crucial that a young infant has eye contact with their parents and interactions with their parents, and that's how they learn how to attach, that's how they learn that they're safe, that's how they learn how to read a room.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_00: And there has been some studies coming out about the impact of a cell phone and how it is so terrible for connection with a child and attachment because what happens is the parent is on the phone and the kid is right there trying to get the parent's attention.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_00: And they need that connection, but they're ha they're they're physically there, but emotionally they're abandoning abandoning them.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because you can you have, you know, I'm not saying you can't multitask, however, yeah, you your attention goes somewhere.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_02: So like even when you're sitting there and your kids are playing in the living room or whatever, like you can catch yourself picking up your phone and scrolling whatever Doom Scroller or working.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like I struggled.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: I feel terrible sometimes because I have to work from home.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I have my three-year-old and she's like, Mommy, play with me, play with me, play with me.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's a constant struggle.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and there is a balance, like I'm your mom and not your friend, and I need to get things done.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_00: And but I do want to prioritize connecting with you too.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: And so they feel seen.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_00: So they feel seen just like we need and valued.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_00: And so the way we attach with them in the beginning shapes how they feel about themselves and about God.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: And so this is that's like a micro level of what abandonment does and is, but it can be much bigger things too.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I feel like we all deal with that to a certain degree.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we do.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so these are the lies that the enemy tries to sow, and um, these are interpretations of the wounded heart may develop over time.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and they're not necessarily true statements about the person or about God.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_00: Usually they're not at all.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so that's kind of abandonment and what it communicates to your heart.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_00: But then you go a little deeper and you say, okay, how does abandonment shape our relationship with God?
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_00: So a person has experienced rejection or loss um, or just disconnection from someone.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um and that history can influence how they interpret God's presence.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_00: So, for example, withdraw.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_00: So someone might say, I will stop needing anyone so I cannot be hurt again.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_00: So I withdraw and isolate.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like that comes too with like if we have any shame.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_02: Like we're like, well, just I just need to be in my bubble and not deal with anyone, and then that way I'm also protecting myself.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I don't want anyone close enough to see me.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: But if you don't let people know you, they can't love you.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_00: That's a big statement.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_00: It naturally flowed, but it was it's so true.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's true.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_00: Because to to be fully known is to be fully loved.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why God loves us more than anyone else can.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_00: Because he fully knows.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_00: He fully knows.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_00: So control is another one.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_00: So withdrawal is the first one.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: Control is the next one.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_00: So um we'll say things to ourselves like, I must make sure nobody can leave me.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm going to manipulate and control the scenario as much as possible.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_00: Exhausting.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: So um, first is withdrawal.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_00: The second was control.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: So that's when we start to think or we believe the lie that I must make sure nobody can leave me.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_00: This is where jealousy can also play a role in this, where it's that fear of of something happening.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_02: Of losing something.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_00: Or some someone taking what you have or um losing someone, right?
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: That's the fear of abandonment.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then number three is performance.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_00: So that's another way our relationship with the Lord can change um and with others can change through abandonment.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: Is if I'm good enough, people will stay and God will be pleased with me.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think that's where a lot of people get like all the, well, I gotta check off all the boxes, I gotta do all the things, and it gets busy instead of being in his presence.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_00: And that's probably the one that would be my default.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, is especially with other people.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: I'm uh a lot better at it now.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_00: I don't care as much as what people think.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_00: A little more grip.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_00: But I think I would have got would not have gotten in a lot of the trouble I got in if I wasn't such a people pleaser.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because I was growing up, I was very much I wanted to be accepted.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_02: And so I did still.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_02: Well, you want to you want to fill the place of belonging, yeah.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_02: And so you're searching and finding that out.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_02: And so sometimes it leads to not the greatest things.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_02: And then you're like, oh, now I recognize it.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, or or I would stay in relationships for way too long.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I was the worst in that.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, why am I still here?
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_00: Oh goodness.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, but because if I'm good enough, they'll stay.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but then we do it with God too.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_00: If like the religion, like you said, checking the boxes of if I do do do do do, it's like a Santa Claus God.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: If I'm not right, if I'm on the good list, I'm gonna get good things.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_00: And if I'm on the naughty list, I'm gonna get naughty things, and that's not how God works.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_00: So um, he loves you just because he wants to, and there's nothing you can do about it.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, and I think we've said it before, like even biblically, people would be like, What did your parents do to make you have blindness or whatever?
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_02: Like in the Bible.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_02: It's like that has nothing to do with it.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_00: Not everything has to do with us.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes things sometimes it does, and sometimes it's just the sin of the world in general, and sometimes it's the sin of other people.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um that affects us, yeah.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_00: But just because you have a defect of some sort in your life, whether it's physical, emotional, mental, whatever, that's not a direct correlation to s to that.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: So to performance.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_00: So the fourth is distrust.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: So we might say things like, God may say he loves me, but I cannot count on him.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_00: I had a client, um still have a client, love her, but she struggled with this thought.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_00: And it was a lot based on her upbringing and and her um she had horrible parents, honestly, like just to say it bluntly, and did not have anyone in her life who was trustworthy.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_00: And actually the people who were protect supposed to protect her hurt her badly in every way.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_00: And so she grew up, she met the Lord, but she really struggled with the the lie of well, he'll do that for you, but not for me.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_02: Like I that's great for you, but that's great for you, but that's not gonna happen for me.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_00: And recently a huge life event just happened, and he showed up for her in incredible and miraculous ways.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_00: And it was so sweet to see him redeem that lie.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_00: Rede redeem that.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_00: So, but that is something that can happen is distrust.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_00: So he may say he loves me, but I can't count on him, so I'm gonna figure it out myself.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_02: And then real quick with that one, I think sometimes, like two, we're we say that or we will think that, but then not recognize all the things that he has put into play.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I'm saying?
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_02: Like all the things around us, we are blinded to the things that are being used for his glory in our life.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_02: And keep going.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_00: No, but that's that's good because you you miss you miss him because you discredit him.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_00: We gotta keep rolling.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_00: Thinking through our lives.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: That was a big one.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there's so many examples of my own life.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_00: I can think of that one.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and how that must break his heart.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that's what makes me sad is when I look back and realize, oh man, I'm sorry.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_02: It's like whenever our kids are coming into chapel for school, yeah, and they can't see us.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_02: They're looking a little bit, but they're eventually they just give up and we're back there with like a red flag.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_02: Like I'm right here.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_01: Literally.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_01: I promise I'm here.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I'm cheering you on.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_01: We got your back.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_00: And then the last one is numbing.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_00: So it will say things like, it is safer not to feel how much I need connection.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: So we'll either numb with things um or distractions or people or alcohol or hobbies.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_00: It can be good things, it can be bad things, it can be we just don't want to feel, so we're it can be busyness, um, not sitting still, so we have to be with ourselves long.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um so yeah, so those are the five main ways that our relationship can be shaped with people and with God through abandonment.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_00: So um a key pastoral insight is that a person's reactions may be attempts to protect themselves from pain, even when those reactions eventually isolate them further.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and we'll get into what a healthy reaction is.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: But that those are the enemy loves that playing field that I just mentioned.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like he can have a heyday with all of them.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's a battlefield of the mind.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Joyce Meyer.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and in the Bible, in the Psalms, I love David talks about this all the time and the feeling of abandonment.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_00: And so in Psalms 22, David cries out asking why God seems so far away.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_02: Why have you abandoned me?
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, where are you?
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_00: How long are you gonna forget about me?
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, Psalms 27, the psalmist considers the possibility of being for forsaken by parents and expresses confidence that the Lord will receive him.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, Psalm 13, David asks, How long will you seem to forget me?
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: And then in Hebrews 13, God promises not to forsake his people ever.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_00: That's also something that is so important.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_00: Feelings are not facts, right?
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_00: And so you can feel abandoned by God.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_00: You can feel like his presence is not there, but that is not true.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why it's so important to know what is true and know his character.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: Right, to fight it.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, God is omnipresent.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_00: That is one of his characteristics, which is a fancy word for He everywhere.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: He is everywhere all the time.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there is no place he is not.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_00: And the Psalms talks about that too.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_00: I can't go to the depths of the sea and get away from you.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like you, I you are everywhere I am and everywhere I go.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_00: You're in all my tomorrows.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like you're he is God and he is omnipresent, and so he is incapable of being absent.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: He can't he's like air, like he's it's in he's incapable of being absent.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_00: And so when you meditate on that and you you you become aware of his presence more, and you're not worried about a feeling.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_00: The feelings come and go, yeah, but it becomes a reality.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_00: So it's the same thing with like God cannot lie.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_00: So I can look at this black microphone and say it's pink and then I'm lying to you, and God can look at it and say it's pink and it would turn pink because that's the power of his words.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_00: So if he says something, it is so, it is so.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: And so he says, I won't I will not leave you nor forsake you, and he cannot lie.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_00: And he cannot be absent.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_02: It's definitely something I think when you're going through these thoughts and stuff, like, I mean, I have found myself in any of these thoughts crossing my mind of like, nope, kick it in the butt.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_02: Cause he said he will never leave me or forsake me.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_02: And even with my kids going through stuff, like, well, God is still there.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_02: Like, and just reiterating that to them because they're like, I just didn't know what to say, or I felt alone.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, you're never alone.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's such a crazy thing to think about, but it's also so comforting.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, it is.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_00: And so faith doesn't require denying the experience of abandonment because we do experience abandonment in this broken world.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_00: But it invites us to bring that experience honestly before God rather than treating our feelings as proof that we have been forgotten.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, like taking your case to him, be like, see, see, but this happened, but this happened.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you're gonna do this to me because Sally Joe down the street did.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_00: And God's like, Really?
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not Sally Joe.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_00: I I am God.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_00: But that's okay, but we'll work through this.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, but it's so easy for us to take what we can see and to plaster it onto what we can't.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but faith isn't saying denying that you're feeling those things.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_00: God never said, David, you shouldn't have said that.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like he the he put it in the Bible for people to read, right?
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_00: He David wrote these things down because it's a real experience that we experience.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_00: And God's like, Yeah, let's wrestle it out together.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_00: Let me show you.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think of Job too with that.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_02: Like he he asked all the questions and he told him how he felt.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_02: And God let him.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_02: And God let him get it all out of his system.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_02: And then he answered.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_02: And then showed up, like showed him how he was showing up.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_02: More of that.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_01: And it was also like, do you realize that I'm the god of the cosmos?
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like I think I can do this.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_01: I can handle this.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_01: Sit down.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so but yeah.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, that's so good.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_00: So then um after abandonment often comes despair.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_00: Despair is a f- My daughter's been watching Fancy Nancy a lot, so I keep saying, Despair is a fancy word.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: Despair is a fancy word for the loss of hope.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_01: So I love fancy Nancy.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_01: I do too.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_01: And my daughter is fancy Nancy.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, she's real life.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_00: So um in Alander's framework, despair is closely connected to the experience of losing something deeply desired or needed.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so this is what despair reveals about your heart.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_00: So despair often emerges when someone, when a person confronts a painful reality, right?
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_00: So uh the reality that they cannot change, repair, or control.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um so before you go into the examples, like I think of like, you know, when you get a paper cut, well, that's eventually gonna go away, even though it really sucks at first.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_02: And it hurts, but you know there's an end.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, you know there's an end.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_02: This is something that there's nothing you can do.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_02: It it's reality.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_02: This is this is my new normal now.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um yes.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: And so yes, I had um a client the other day who their spouse has been sentenced to life in prison.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um and that is a hard reality.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's hard.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: And so um it is.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_00: So it's mourning someone who's still alive.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's mourning the life you thought you were gonna have.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's despair.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_00: She's in a in a moment of despair right now, but God is meeting her there.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_00: And so there are big moments of despair and little moments of despair.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes it can be a diagnosis.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, sometimes it can be whatever.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but it's stuff that's like out of your hands.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like, oh, this is never coming back.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like even I've had a client who had an amputated leg.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like that, there's a form of I'm never gonna have a leg.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like I had to face this.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_00: What is life now?
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_00: And so there's a moment of mourning and despair, and then they give it to God and he turned it into something else.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_00: But we'll get that, we'll get there.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_00: So another uh so these are some examples of um what despair rev reveals in you.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_00: So losing a relationship or longing for someone who will not stay.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, experiencing rejection, betrayal, or injustice, praying for change and feeling as though God is silent.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_00: Check, check, check, check.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_00: Keep going.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_00: Facing circumstances that do did that do not fit one's hopes for life.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, feeling powerless to change oneself or another person.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, or even a circumstance.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_02: Like you see all the hurt in the world and you you do feel powerless.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: Like you do everything you can, but it's not in your hands.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um Yeah.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_00: And so the ultimate form of despair would be living in this world and not having a savior.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_02: Mm-hmm.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_00: That is the ultimate form of despair.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_00: No hope.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_00: And we'll get into this in a second, but that is why despair is a good thing.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_00: Because despair is realizing how helpless you are and how much you need a savior.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_02: How you can't control those things.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_02: All the things we talked about above.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_00: We can't control our heartbeat.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_00: We can't control our own breath.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_00: Come to terms with that with that with us.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like once you realize how helpless and how at the mercy of God you really are.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_00: Like, but then the good news comes and the hope comes back of, I made a way.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_02: Mm-hmm.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_02: He made a way.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you wanna like there's a um a desperation and wanting to be connected to that.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 23:04
  unknown: Yeah.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_02: I think at that point, because you realize how much you can't control even when something happens in your life or those thoughts come or whatever it is.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_02: And so you do.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_02: You you're like, I gotta be connected to someone who knows what's going on and how to handle this and how to navigate this and and put things into place.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_02: And the only person is God.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_02: Like the only one to go to is and he's happy to do it.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_02: That's what's so crazy is he's happy to do it.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_02: And he treats you so kind.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_02: What do you always say?
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_02: What uh do you say kind God or sweet God?
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_02: He's intimate.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you said you say something all the time.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_02: No, I can't remember.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_02: It'll come back to me.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_02: It's a good thing.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_00: Oh I hope so.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:48
  unknown: Yeah.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_03: But but that's how sweet he is with your heart.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe it's something like that.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_00: He's just tender.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know what I say.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_00: But he but he is.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_00: He's just he's so intentional.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know what I say.
• 24:04
  unknown: Yes.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_01: I just say stuff and hope for the best.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_01: It comes out.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_01: It just comes out.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_01: Here it is.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_01: Larson knows at this point that I can't script anything because it's just like it's always a root role.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_00: Rough outline and then you let the Lord do what he wants to do.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_00: And then Ben edits what he doesn't.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_00: He protects himself.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so because again, I am not perfect.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_00: So I feel like I need to do a disclaimer on every podcast.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not gonna get it 100% right 100% of the time.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_00: But what I do know is that Jesus is the way.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_02: And we might say something that rubs you wrong, and we're not trying to intentionally do that.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_02: We're just we love you.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we're just doing the best we can.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_00: Today was just this is a side note, but to our friends who are listening, today recording has been hard the last two weeks because life has just been nuts in the weirdest ways and curveballs that were unexpected.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_00: And so we were standing in the parking lot after chapel and I was like, Do you want to record now?
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_01: And she's like, sure.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_01: So we just came inside figure it out.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_00: And before, every time before we go into a podcast, I pray.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_00: And because I need to center myself and I don't want to do it without God because Lord knows that would be a mess.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_00: So I just was like, Lord, we're here.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_00: We here are our fish and our loaves.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_00: Now make it something good.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_00: That's literally what I prayed.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, we this is yours.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_01: So hopefully this blesses somebody today.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_01: But if you think we have it together, you're wrong.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_03: Mass chaos over here, but we love, we love the Lord and how He uses it.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_01: We're showing up.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_00: So, anyways, back to what we're talking about.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_00: So, underneath despair may be a profound longing.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_00: So the longing can be I want to be loved, I want, I want this to be made right, I want to know that my life matters, and I want to believe that things can be different.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_00: All of those longings under despair point to the fact that there is a God bigger than us and there's something better than what this is that we're living in right now.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and like I say every week, it's evidence that God exists.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_00: So um the movement towards hopelessness.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_00: So this is like the chain of like when I'm in counseling, I'm looking for okay, what step is this person on in despair right now?
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_00: So the first one is loss.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_00: So they something important is taken away, withheld, or never received.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_00: And then there's a sense of powerlessness.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_00: So I cannot make this better no matter how hard I try.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_00: And then there's the step three, which is interpretation.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_00: So it's kind of like, all right, I'm letting it soak in that nothing will ever change.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_00: I'll I will always be alone.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_00: And the lies kind of creep into that.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_00: And then it's time for the response.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_00: So the response to despair and this feeling of helplessness.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_00: So the person may withdraw from relationships and hope or bring their helplessness honestly before God.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_00: Those are your options.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_02: It's like a two two-way straight, which way you go in.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_00: You're in a fork in the road.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_00: So you get to choose where you take your despair.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_02: Two-way.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_02: Sorry.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's right.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think two-way street, fork in the road.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_00: I'm doing a Y with my hands.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_01: That's like it's a wishbone.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_01: So fork has three, so I don't know.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_01: Anyways, you have two options.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_01: You got two.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_01: And we're directionally challenged.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_03: So well, my family already knew that.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_01: So um, so so the important this is such a serious topic, and I'm just laughing through it.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_01: Uh this is how I cope.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_01: This is my personality.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_01: That's what I do.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_01: So, but it's very serious.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_01: But God is good, and that's why we're able to laugh.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_02: So because we understand the desperation of needing that hope and what he's done through it.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, and we've lived through different versions of it.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_00: And so we're you can walk through it and know God is faithful.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and you can have joy in it.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_02: That's what's crazy too.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_02: You can hold both things.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, okay, real quick.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, sorry, I don't think I can be quaint, but I'm gonna try.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_02: I love it.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um, me and my nephew and my son, like, I got in church this past week, they brought my son to me and he was crying, and I'm like, what in the world?
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_02: Like, this never happens.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_02: And there was a misunderstanding between the cousins.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_02: And so then we start to talk after, and he he was like, Well, I thought you said this, and I thought you said this, and but I am happy that I'm around you all the time, but I'm not I mean, I like Ju Judah's kind of walking through, like, well, I I mean, my dad died, and maybe that's not always a bad thing because then I can be around you all the time, and I'm like, okay.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_02: So we sat down and we talked about like you can hold both things at the same time.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_02: Like you can feel like your world is spinning around you and it's mass chaos, but and you can you can be sad that something happened, but also be thankful that how like how God's using it.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah, and we can meet you there.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, yeah.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_02: I just I literally just had to do that.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what joy is.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_00: Just like we talked about in the fear episode, like courage is not the absence of fear.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_00: Courage is being afraid and doing it anyway.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_00: Joy is not the absence of sorrow.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's having sorrow, but having a deep knowing that everything's gonna be okay anyway.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_00: That hope.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_00: It's the hope.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, the opposite of the so the joy of the Lord is my strength.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_00: Why would it need to be strength?
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, right?
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_00: So joy is joy is the anchor of like, I know my redeemer lives.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I know that no matter what happens, it's gonna be okay.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_00: That is joy.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_00: And people think joy is this happiness, and jo and that can be joy does look like that.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's why I mean, I remember after my grandpa passed away, I have a massive family, and we were all, they gave us our own private waiting room.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_00: And we were all super emotional, and obviously we loved him.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_00: And so we're in there, and the spirit of the Lord came in that room, and we were talking, and we got so tickled.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_00: We were belly laughing, sharing stories and talking about him, and we got we were so we had tears streaming down our face and belly laughing.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_00: And the nurse came and checked on on us, so I'm like, she probably thinks we're psycho.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's like we hated this guy.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_01: No, we loved him.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_01: We're all throwing apart.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_00: But the but the but the joy of the Lord met us there.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_00: It was also like another moment that this happened was when I was in Honduras and I was helping um at an orphanage house.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's hard to what say what it was.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_00: It was like a safe house for girls that we rescued, and so it was either they were orphaned or human trafficked or um bad situations.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_00: We scooped them up, and so I was a a helper in the house.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_00: And so um there was a political coup, the country shut down, I was stuck there.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_00: And there was a curfew past 5 p.m.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_00: And if you were in the street and there's a bunch of riots, there's it was anarchy, they're burning down the the country.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_00: It was actually terrifying, but the peace of the Lord held me together in a way that I can't even put into words.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_00: But then so I I'm in charge of these girls in a foreign country, and you can hear the riots going on outside.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_00: And if they're the people were out past curfew, they were either arrested or shot on site.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_00: And so you I like called a family meeting with the girls, and we all got on the couch, and I they had this massive sectional couch, and there's 18 girls sitting on it, and I'm like, Okay, how are y'all doing?
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's been three weeks of this, like food is running low.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_00: How are you?
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_00: You know, yeah, I'm not saying that, but I'm thinking, you know, how are you?
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and there are they were like, it's fine, our God is bigger than this, you know, and and I'm like, You're right.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, So I'm like, you know what we're gonna do?
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_00: I said, we're gonna play.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_00: Cause we had and the power was out.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_00: That was another thing.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_00: The power grid would go off and on, and in that moment the power was out.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_00: And so I brought out some old camp games like ships and sailors and and like stupid games like a winking game, yeah, just funny games, yeah, teaching them games and running around and playing.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_00: And they had um it makes me emotional.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_00: They had um, I haven't talked about this in a long time.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_00: So they were playing, and that houses in Honduras, like it's very common to have walls with barbed wire on the top, like a prison, like tall walls.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_00: And we had m massive walls and like a Jurassic Park gate.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_00: And um, but there's like an out there's a yard inside of that, like the courtyard is a yard, it's just you're fenced in to keep you safe, right?
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_00: And especially when you have 18 girls on the property.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_00: And so they were playing and belly laughing, and then I went outside to catch my breath and just it was loud and it was hot.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_00: So I was like, I'm gonna go outside for a minute.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_00: And another thing too is me and God, like one of my things with him is fireflies, and I love fireflies.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_00: And he's so this is how intentional and intimate he is.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_00: So I it was about 5 p.m.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_00: It was in December, so it was dark, it was getting dark, and I hear the riots in the street going on, and then I hear the commotion of gunshots going on, and I hear people screaming, right?
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_00: And then I can hear the girl's belly laughing inside.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm standing outside in this courtyard in the middle, in the middle, and I'm just like, Lord, I feel you, I know you're here, but my heart is aching.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_00: And right about that time, the courtyard filled with fireflies.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_01: It's wild.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_00: And it was like just this peace like washed over me, and he said, My joy will be your strength.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_00: Those are my girls, and you're my girl.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, Okay.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_00: And that next day I had to get rushed out of the country in a very short amount of time and had had nothing but my passport.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_00: But that's another story for another day.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_00: But it was just like holding both holding both at the same time, but I was real with the Lord.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_00: I said, Lord, this is terrifying.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but I know you're here and I know you're good.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I know you did not leave me here because you can't, even though I feel like you're not here.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and then he brought me, he filled the yard with fireflies.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_02: Just confirmation.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_00: Just confirmation of like, I see you and I'm with you.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_00: You can go inside and play.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_00: And we did.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so the underlying spiritual question that often comes from despair is Is God good when my life hurts?
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_00: Can I trust God when He does not give me what I long for?
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_00: Is God present when I cannot sense him?
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_00: Can I accept that I am not in control?
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_00: And is there hope when my circumstances do not change?
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_02: I think I have like four or five pages in my journal from like the early days after losing Rusty, where like it's it's these questions over and over again and more.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's it's like, can I trust you?
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_02: Like you said all these things.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_02: I've lived my life like trying to honor you, like, what the heck?
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, like I mean very raw, like in a lot of those things.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_02: But how sweet it is that like you said, like you felt like you could.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_00: Because you can't.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_02: You can you can ask him and he'll answer you.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_02: He will.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_00: And if you don't take it to him, you fall into a pit of despair.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_00: And you're stuck.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_00: Of helplessness.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_00: For a little while at least.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_00: The goal is not to shame someone for despair.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_00: Shame is not from God.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_00: Or demand that they feel hopeful immediately.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_00: That's another thing.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_00: It's like it's okay to sit in the pain you're in.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like you don't have to get over it like right now.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_02: There are so many people, like when you're walking through hard stuff, that say the dumbest things with the best intentions.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_02: But they say stuff and I just have to be like off my shoulder.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_02: Like just let it roll.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_02: It happened at we basically had two funerals for Rusty.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and it happened constantly.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, what's some of the things they would say?
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_02: Oh Lord.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, they would say, Well, he's in a better place.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_02: You're like, uh, thanks.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um, or you know, God's God, it was his plan all along.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, Oh, what was it?
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks for that.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_02: Like, we can talk theology later.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_02: Like, um, I mean, they would they still do.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I still get messages trying to but it's just not hidden.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I And it sometimes hurts.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_00: And you have to, yeah, escape.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_00: So I I help with a Greek group here, and one of um a few of them have lost their spouses, and one of them said that at his spouse's funeral, someone said, Oh, I can't wait to celebrate today.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_02: Are you getting are you going for a party after this?
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what do you mean?
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_00: And what he means is like the persons have an emergency celebration of life.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_00: But what had happened was an absolute tragedy.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's hard to hear.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_00: It's hard to hear.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's and that that's not the time for that.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_02: Like, yes, you can Oh, I had someone like hug me and they had gone through like not really not the same situation, but they felt connected to it because of something they had gone through.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_02: And so they were like, Well, I completely understand how you feel.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_02: And when you're ready to talk and bash him, I'm in.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, whoa! Like, next.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_03: Like, and how I was like, God, I've known you my whole life.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_03: Like, what's wrong with you?
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_03: Like, clearly, you didn't know me or him.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_03: Like, what?
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_03: No, thank you.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_02: No, thank you.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_02: And what good is that gonna do?
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, like does that make you feel better?
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_02: Because I think you need to talk to Jesus about that.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_02: Talk to somebody.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not gonna go down that road.
• 38:30
  unknown: Yeah.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_03: It's not worth it.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_02: Oh gosh.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, the craziest stuff I'm like and a lot of it is good intentions, just not good delivery.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_02: Like it came out of that person's hurt that they hadn't faced yet.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_02: And and you have to know that.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_02: Like when people say stuff like that, social media is filled with like stupid things people say.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_02: And like, you know, you you get the slide posts or whatever, but like they they don't know exactly, and they they are hurt too.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes, something that is just as hurtful though, is not talking about it at all.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_00: So that is something else that got brought up in grief share.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_00: It was this person, one of the people in the grief group, went to lunch with some people that um she was really good friends with before everything happened.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_00: And they did not mention him one time.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_00: And it was like this elephant in the room.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_00: And so if you're the one who is in your like the scenario you were in, Larson, sometimes it is very kind to say, hey, we can talk about him if you want to.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, just be like being up front with it, and then and then like for me, like my walls come down because I'm like, oh, they they loved him too.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_02: Or like they love me enough to let me say his name and not be awkward after.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_02: Like, yeah, there's so many times where I'll like say a story or like, oh, Rusty did this or whatever, like, and I'll share it because I'm around people that hadn't been a part of our lives or wasn't close enough in our everyday life, and and I'll just get like looks and silence, and I'm like, oh my gosh.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_02: Like we could talk about this.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_02: That's more draining.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_02: Like that that hurts more.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, like it's okay to say his name and to talk about it.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_00: And remember him well.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and process it.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's part of processing it.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, and that can be without any sort of abandonment.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and and if someone doesn't want to talk about it after you say that, then they won't.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_02: And that's their choice, and that's okay.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, they're not ready.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_00: But sometimes the nice thing to do is to be the person that says, You're I don't want to talk about it, or I do.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_00: Because they they don't know.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_00: They're just trying their best and they're awkward.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_00: So just help them.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_02: We're all awkward.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_02: Help them out.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_02: We are all there.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_02: So, um, so this one was supposed to be short.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_02: We're not good at that one.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_02: I know.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_00: So Psalms uh 42, 5 says speaking to one's own soul amid discouragement.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_00: It talks about that.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, if you want to go look that up later, Psalms 77, one through nine is crying out to God and wrestling with his apparent absence.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's a good one.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and then Lamentations 3, 17 through 24 is moving through anguish and then towards remembering God's mercy.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_00: And so there's ungodly despair, which we talked about.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_00: That's kind of trying to handle it on your own, isolating the five things, the withdrawal, the control, the performance, all those things.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_00: Or redemptive despair, which is where you bring it to God and you just sort of raw and real.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_00: So ungodly despair, the the core heart posture is because I cannot have what I want, I cannot imagine a meaningful future.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so they refuse to face the full reality of the loss and they stay stuck.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, they attempt to escape pain rather than grieve it.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, they treat the absence of an answer as proof that there is no answer.
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um withdraws, they withdraw from meaningful connection and future possibilities.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_00: So it's almost like they feel like they're not allowed to have hope or joy.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not allowed to enjoy someone else after losing my spouse.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_00: Or it's like there's so many, so many things.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um I'm trying to think of one with like a like there's always what am I trying to say?
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_00: The daddy issues uh slogan, right?
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_00: Comes from abandon abandonment from fathers, either emotionally or altogether, they're just not there.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_00: And so a lot of times women will withdraw or they're too open.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_00: So there's the withdrawal of like, I'm not gonna let you close to me, I'm not gonna let you touch me, I'm not gonna let you hurt me, or I'm just gonna flirt with you and and and manipulate and control and give all of myself to you so you can't leave me.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_05: Trap.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's like one or the other.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_00: So you see the that comes from an abandonment issue.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_02: And um it goes back to the things we listed earlier of like the control and the yeah.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_00: But even too, like when you have a meaningful, for example, the prison situation, you have a meaningful connection with your father or with your spouse.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then he's gone.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_00: And then you have to process through the risk of loving someone again and letting someone know you again.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_02: Which I think with some of this stuff, like you you can go in and out of it so easily, uh huh.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_02: To be honest.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_02: Like because that that thought of, well, it is what it is.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_02: Anyways, and nothing's gonna change.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I have days where I still think that.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_02: And I have to fight against that.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_02: And so that's why, like what you were talking about earlier, like knowing the word and running to God with these thoughts before you dig the hole any deeper.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_02: Because left alone, I'm digging a deep ditch.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_02: Like you put a silo in that sucker.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_02: Like, have you seen that show?
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_02: There's a show called Silo.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_02: Anyways, um, it made me think of it.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but like I'm going deep into the ground.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_02: But like if I recognize it coming on and I just run to God, like it shifts the whole day because I can there's hope.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, there's the hope.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_00: You let the hope back in.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_02: And I feel like you have to constantly, you have to constantly lean on the Lord and like open your hands and say it's not in mine, anyways.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_02: I was talking to a random person the other day that I don't even know.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_02: We got on the conversation, he asked me about my car.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, oh, well, he's like, How much do you pay for this car?
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, Well, I was in a place to, you know, pay it off.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_02: And he was like, Wow, look at you.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, Well, my husband died.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_03: I don't y'all, y'all, I'm still walking through a lot.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I don't know what to respond sometimes.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_01: He's like, I'm laughing because you called me right after that.
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_01: And you're like, Megan, I'm so awkward.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_01: What?
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_01: You're like, I just did this.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_01: This poor guy is just you asking me for the word.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_03: He's like, he goes, Wow, I'm so sorry.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_03: And then, you know, he he asked a little more details, so I was here a little more.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_03: And then he's like, I did not expect this conversation.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_03: But he was so real with like, I did not expect this to go this way.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_03: I was like, it's okay, it's my life.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_03: Like that, it was that point where I was like, the heck just happened.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_02: And so, like, I, you know, even getting in the car after that, I mean, I had to run to another thing quickly, but like, even I'm like, what just happened?
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_02: And like, all right, Lord, like I told I told him, I was like, I'm not, it's not in my hands.
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I literally just surrendered all to the Lord and like I hold him true to his promises.
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_02: But by saying that to that man, yeah, you were a witness.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_03: Who knows what he said?
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's all I don't care what the fact that you those are huge statements that are coming out of your mouth, and he's like, oh wow.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_00: And then you're like, but God.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_01: I couldn't leave it at, well, he died.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like, but God.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_00: And that that's the that's the that's for despair you go through.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_00: This is right.
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_00: He went through it in five seconds.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, he did with me.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, oh god, oh, oh, oh, we're going there.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so sorry.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_03: So I didn't apologize.
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_03: I was like, that's okay.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_03: It's my life.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I was done.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_02: It's okay.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_02: Like, God use this.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_02: Lord help us.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_02: Like, yeah, of all the places I'm standing here, like talking to this random dude.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_00: And you know what?
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_00: He might have needed to hear that.
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_00: He was just like a perspective shift.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_00: For sure.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_00: Which goes to the last thing of ungodly despair, which is what you just said, is um, we may become resigned to the belief that nothing can change.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then the underlying demand of ungodly despair is I must have an answer, an explanation, or a resolution before I can live with hope.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like we feel like we have to have a plan and structure and five-step plan and control.
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_00: And it don't work that way.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_00: That's not how it works.
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_00: So, but yeah.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_00: So that heart posture is I cannot control or report or repair everything, but I can bring my helplessness to God.
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_00: And so redemptive despair acknowledges the depth of pain and loss.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_00: It allows grief without pretending everything is fine.
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_00: It surrenders the illusion of complete control.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_00: It um welcomes or becomes willing to ask God for perspective without demanding an immediate explanation.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_00: So instead of saying, God, why, say what?
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like, why not why did this happen, but what are you creating in me through this?
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I I pray all the time, like, let me see what you see.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_02: Like, will you please just give me a glimpse?
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_02: Can I, can I, let me see this person how you see them?
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_02: Like, so that I can have grace or have mercy.
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_02: So I can forgive.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_02: And so so I can forgive.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then remains open to relationship growth and possibilities not yet visible.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_00: So the underlying prayer.
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_00: So ungodly despair has a demand.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_00: And then redemptive despair is a prayer.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_00: And it says, God, I do not understand what you are doing.
• 48:51
  unknown: Yeah.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_02: So every day I'm every moment.
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know what you're doing here.
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm here.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_00: And then it says, help me remain in relationship with you in the middle of this.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_02: Because we've talked about it a hundred times, but like bad stuff is going to happen because we live in a I mean it's human nature, it's simple.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_02: We're in a broken world.
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_02: And we're waiting for that, you know, redemption and rescue from all of this.
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_02: But I encourage you to to run to him and to know what his word says so that you can fight because the battlefield of the mind.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_02: Like you can stand strong against spiritual warfare.
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I yes, it's so good.
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_00: And so when you realize if you are in a season of despair, people might want to smack me because I say this all the time.
• 49:43
  SPEAKER_00: But lean into it because it's proof that God exists.
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_00: And lean into it, give it to the Lord, and let the hope come in.
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_00: Because it's right there.
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_02: Surrender to Him.
• 49:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_00: For sure.
• 49:59
  SPEAKER_00: So I um when I would just visited my um grandpa in the house where my grandmother passed away.
• 50:08
  SPEAKER_00: And me and my mom was her main caretaker.
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I the first seven years of my life, I was right beside my mom taking care of her.
• 50:16
  SPEAKER_00: And so my f I have very vivid memories of her.
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_00: First eight years of my life.
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_00: Very vivid memories of her.
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_00: And um towards the end, she had hospice there.
• 50:27
  SPEAKER_00: And every morning I I was homeschooled, so because we were taking care of her.
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_00: And so every morning I would crawl in bed with her.
• 50:33
  SPEAKER_00: And she was so positive all the time.
• 50:35
  SPEAKER_00: I've talked about her before.
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like she had such an impact on me.
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I'd have been thinking a lot about it this week because I was at that house and a bunch of memories flooded back.
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_00: And um I would crawl in her bed and we would talk about heaven.
• 50:51
  SPEAKER_00: And she she had visitors towards the end, she could hear running water, and she was very with it, but she knew that the spiritual realm was right there.
• 51:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like, and so and we would talk about it, and that made such an impact on me, and I still have that impact.
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_00: But she said, Megan, when I die, it's gonna be the best day of my life.
• 51:12
  SPEAKER_00: And it's true.
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_00: Like this pain and suffering is gonna end.
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_00: And so the question isn't why did this happen?
• 51:23
  SPEAKER_00: The question is, Lord, what are you gonna do with this to spread your goodness while I'm here?
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_00: Because I'm just here for a second.
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 51:31
  SPEAKER_00: And then when that second is over, you're gonna make all things right again.
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not gonna know pain.
• 51:38
  SPEAKER_00: You're gonna wipe my tears.
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like, that's the hope.
• 51:42
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 51:43
  SPEAKER_00: And so the the death, the despair does not compare to the glory that is coming.
• 51:49
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's so important if you're in that season of despair, to again give it to the Lord and let him remind you of his faithfulness.
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, those pockets.
• 51:59
  SPEAKER_00: And those little pockets of paradise.
• 52:00
  SPEAKER_00: We are pockets of paradise on earth, we're pockets of his presence here.
• 52:05
  SPEAKER_00: He's everywhere, he's omnipresent.
• 52:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but he uses us with his eyes, you can see him.
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_00: You can see him.
• 52:12
  SPEAKER_00: And the Bible says if you look for me with all your heart, you will find me.
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 52:16
  SPEAKER_00: So look.
• 52:17
  SPEAKER_00: Another promise.
• 52:18
  SPEAKER_00: That's another promise.
• 52:19
  SPEAKER_00: And he can't lie.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_00: So, but but yeah.
• 52:23
  SPEAKER_00: So all that to say, the gospel is the ultimate anecdote for despair.
• 52:28
  SPEAKER_00: And the gospel is that we are all sinners, we are all broken, we are completely helpless, and there is nothing we can be do to be good enough to be in the presence of a holy God, which means ultimate separation from him, which means hell forever.
• 52:43
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 52:44
  SPEAKER_00: But he loved us so much that he sent his son and he put flesh on him and he lived a life and he felt the all the pain that he could feel.
• 52:54
  SPEAKER_00: He he was tempted in every way.
• 52:56
  SPEAKER_00: He was murdered brutally as a sacrifice for us.
• 53:00
  SPEAKER_00: He paid our penalty.
• 53:01
  SPEAKER_00: He died the fullest death for us, completely righteous and innocent, so that we can have a way back to him.
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_00: And so it doesn't matter what despair you are facing today, that hope conquers it.
• 53:19
  SPEAKER_02: It is greater than it.
• 53:20
  SPEAKER_00: It is greater than.
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_00: And so, and if you don't know the Lord and you're listening, it's real simple.
• 53:28
  SPEAKER_00: You just confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and you believe it in your heart, and you say, Lord, I want you to save my life.
• 53:35
  SPEAKER_00: Come into my life.
• 53:36
  SPEAKER_00: I want to make you the Lord of my life.
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_00: And then every day you show up and you start walking towards him.
• 53:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I think he waits eagerly for you to just cry out his name.
• 53:49
  SPEAKER_02: So we're glad you joined us.
• 53:52
  SPEAKER_02: We're glad you joined us too much.
• 53:56
  SPEAKER_02: It's heavy, but it's good.
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 53:58
  SPEAKER_02: It's good.
• 53:58
  SPEAKER_02: So much hope.
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_01: So much hope.
• 54:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 54:01
  SPEAKER_01: This is a podcast about despair, but you didn't know we're getting slaughtered the hope bomb.
• 54:06
  SPEAKER_00: So do you want to pray us out, Larson?
• 54:09
  SPEAKER_02: Lord, thank you so much for um just anyone listening, Lord, and God, thank you for um bringing us together to do our best to honor you and to glorify you.
• 54:25
  SPEAKER_02: And God, I pray that you will um just everyone listening, Lord, will be able to have that hope and turn their focus, shift their focus back to you, that you have been under control, that they don't have to have it all figured out.
• 54:41
  SPEAKER_02: They don't have to have every answer, and that they can put their trust in you and they can open their hands to you and say, Here am I, send me or use me, Lord.
• 54:52
  SPEAKER_02: And so, God, I pray that you will give them the strength because it's courage, Lord, for us.
• 54:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I pray that you will give us the strength to do that daily, to to put someone in our paths that we can talk to about you, Lord.
• 55:08
  SPEAKER_02: And God, I pray that um you will just continue to give strength to walk through this life until we get to be with you.
• 55:17
  SPEAKER_02: And by the way, you can you can go ahead and come any day now.
• 55:20
  SPEAKER_02: I'd appreciate it.
• 55:22
  SPEAKER_02: But we love you, we do, and we're thankful that we get to um be effective for you and and to to like I said earlier, glorify you, God.
• 55:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it is such a beautiful thing to be able to see you working around us.
• 55:38
  SPEAKER_02: And so I pray for everyone listening, God, that you you give them the eyes to see like you see.
• 55:45
  SPEAKER_02: And um, thank you, Lord, for the hope that you provide and that you give us.
• 55:50
  SPEAKER_02: In your name we pray.
• 55:52
  SPEAKER_02: Amen.
• 55:52
  SPEAKER_02: Amen.