Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Daniel Knight, Lucy McCaul & Dave Rennie about their choice of The Enemy of the World (4/6)

Transcript

Talks to Daniel Knight, Lucy McCaul & Dave Rennie about their choice of The Enemy of the World (4/6) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:33
  Hamster with a blunt. Pen knife for doing quicker.
• 0:37
  Quicker, quicker, it was you or Someone Like You.
• 0:41
  Welcome back to a hamster with a blunt pen knife, the Doctor Who
• 0:44
  Comici podcast. We're still here, the four of us
• 0:47
  watching Enemy of the World. So I'm with dear Lucy McCall.
• 0:51
  Say hello, Lucy. Hello.
• 0:53
  And dear Daniel Knight. Say hello, Daniel.
• 0:55
  Hello. And of course, the man who makes
• 0:58
  it all happen, the host, Mr. Joe Ford Dojo.
• 1:01
  Still here? Yeah, it's been 5 months as we
• 1:05
  recorded one to three. If we're still here, we've been
• 1:08
  in this position for the last five months.
• 1:10
  Stir crazy. Oh.
• 1:18
  There we are. We what?
• 1:20
  What? What?
• 1:20
  We're here to do. Come on.
• 1:22
  This is all yours. All right, yes.
• 1:25
  So we're watching Enemy of the World where Patrick Trout and
• 1:28
  it's got a Hungarian accent or some sort of Eastern European
• 1:32
  accent. We couldn't.
• 1:33
  Quite determine in episodes. It was supposed to be Mexican.
• 1:36
  Where in the world? Or Mexico.
• 1:38
  We know where we know. Where we're told that he's
• 1:40
  supposed to be Mexicans. I think Fraser Hines and Debbie
• 1:44
  Watling sort of identified about 15 separate countries he may
• 1:49
  have come from. They did ask if it was Welsh.
• 1:52
  At what point? We haven't gone underground yet,
• 1:57
  have we? Not yet.
• 2:00
  No, we're going to see some pretty ripe acting when we do as
• 2:03
  well, as far as I recall. Well, look, do you want to lead
• 2:07
  us into episode 4? Then count us in.
• 2:10
  Sure, if we're all ready before I player.
• 2:13
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 2:15
  And 54321 please. We are off now guys.
• 2:24
  I'm going to kick us straight off with a question from our
• 2:27
  dear friend Fraser Gregory. OK?
• 2:30
  And I'm going to throw. It I'm not smoking, marrying or
• 2:32
  avoiding anyone, OK? It's funny you should say that,
• 2:37
  you know. Snog, marry, suck out the TARDIS
• 2:42
  doors mid flight. Beg your pardon, Bruce, Astrid
• 2:47
  or Salamander? Let's go to Dave first.
• 2:51
  Oh. God, I would, I would get rid of
• 2:57
  Bruce because he's just annoying, just keeps turning up
• 2:59
  and asking what's going on. He's sucking off.
• 3:02
  Bruce Yeah. Yes.
• 3:05
  OK. And So what?
• 3:09
  It was Salamander and who? An Astrid.
• 3:12
  Astrid. Snog on money and well, it's
• 3:16
  tough to be snog salamander, isn't it?
• 3:19
  Patrick Straight with that those dopey eyes.
• 3:23
  And yeah, Marie Ferrar because she deserves a bit happier.
• 3:26
  So get that out with the Salamanders clutches Mario and
• 3:31
  take it off for the other zone or something.
• 3:33
  Daniel, would you be any different from that?
• 3:36
  No, I think, I think Dave's got it spot on, to be honest.
• 3:39
  I'd, I'd want to avoid Donald Bruce because it's the same
• 3:42
  actor who plays Reuben in horror Fang Rock, and I'd be worried
• 3:45
  he'd turn into a great big snot covered.
• 3:50
  And Astrid. Yeah, I'd marry Astrid because
• 3:53
  frankly, you know, she was supposed to be Mary Peach was in
• 3:57
  the running to be Tara King, I think, wasn't she at one point?
• 3:59
  And she is sort of like a prototype Avengers lady with the
• 4:02
  leather jacket. I think she would be.
• 4:05
  She would have been very good. And there she is.
• 4:09
  Yeah. Very beautiful.
• 4:10
  And if I have to snob salamander, get it over quickly.
• 4:14
  Yeah. I mean, he had about 15
• 4:18
  families. Patrick Trowell, he had
• 4:19
  something going for him. And he, he does flirt.
• 4:22
  There's a lot of ladies that he flirts with this season, I mean.
• 4:26
  Yeah. Oh yeah.
• 4:27
  You know Astrid, Gemma Corwin and Wheel in Space?
• 4:35
  Yeah, Anne Travers. Anne Travers.
• 4:37
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 4:38
  He's he. He actually has more time for
• 4:41
  for Anne than he does for Victoria and Jamie.
• 4:43
  He tells Victoria to shut up at one point or be quiet.
• 4:46
  Anything. I think Terence Dix comes in
• 4:48
  and, you know, scripts, edits and goes, no, we're having none
• 4:50
  of this. What's going on?
• 4:51
  No hanky panky. No hanky panky in the TARDIS,
• 4:54
  thank you very much. Lucy.
• 4:56
  I don't know none of the above, but I wouldn't mind going out
• 5:03
  for a drink with Astrid because she seems like a nice person and
• 5:06
  quite fun. She does now.
• 5:08
  Look, it's been so long I forgot where the plot is at this point.
• 5:11
  Can someone catches up? Well, just just right now,
• 5:15
  Astrid has been making a call to what's his name that I can't
• 5:22
  remember. Giles, Kent.
• 5:24
  Giles Kent. That's right.
• 5:26
  And it's been overheard by evil Milton Johns, who's looking
• 5:31
  particularly Weasley at this point.
• 5:35
  And our other heroic lady has just come in.
• 5:40
  Korea. Yeah, for you.
• 5:42
  Korea, whose name I also couldn't remember, and she's
• 5:45
  telling Astrid that she can help destroy Salamander.
• 5:50
  Salamander is holding is blackmailing various nations and
• 5:54
  threatening them with with them. Including Terry.
• 5:59
  Including. Terry, and including natural
• 6:01
  disasters. It's been established possibly,
• 6:04
  that there's something fishy going on with another
• 6:07
  salamander. Jamie's infiltrate had
• 6:10
  infiltrated Salamander's house as a guard, showing again the
• 6:15
  worrying addiction to wet suits among megalomaniacs in Doctor
• 6:18
  Who, and Victoria was in the kitchen peeling potatoes.
• 6:23
  Oh, that was very so. Brilliant.
• 6:25
  Thank you very. Much.
• 6:28
  Oh, he does look very Weasley doesn't.
• 6:30
  He oh it it just looks some. Creepiest.
• 6:33
  That haircut is really not. No.
• 6:36
  But it's perfect casting isn't. It yeah, absolutely perfect.
• 6:39
  You know, you know what you're going to get when you when you
• 6:41
  cast Milton Jordan apart like that, you're going to get what
• 6:43
  you what you want. What does he say?
• 6:46
  I had a very enjoyable childhood.
• 6:49
  Yeah. Something like that.
• 6:50
  Oh, so creepy, Joe. I've just come away from doing
• 6:54
  quite a bit of Hinchcliff. Yeah.
• 6:55
  For Strictly Come Hamster, where there were as few women in those
• 7:01
  seasons as I've just seen on the screen in one scene in season,
• 7:05
  Season 5. There's some good roles for
• 7:08
  women in this story. They really are.
• 7:11
  Faria and Astrid particularly both have parts of the plot that
• 7:16
  are their own. She's she's talking about
• 7:22
  defeating Salamander and Nobody's Perfect Kent.
• 7:26
  And also the doctor is suspicious of Kent because he is
• 7:31
  at the moment not putting himself out to rescue anybody
• 7:35
  and he doesn't seem to really mind that people are putting
• 7:39
  their lives in danger. Yeah, he's just sort of standing
• 7:42
  there with the arms and his back, just looking.
• 7:45
  Yeah, so the doctor's a bit a bit suspicious of him already,
• 7:48
  but yeah, so. Very unlike Trown's doctor to be
• 7:51
  out of the action for this long and he must be highly
• 7:54
  suspicious. Yeah, you need every one of
• 7:57
  those swindles. So she's come to Brother
• 7:59
  Whiston. I mean, she's got her own story,
• 8:01
  her own back story that she shares some of and how she came
• 8:05
  to be his food taster and how she wanted to get close to him
• 8:08
  so she could destroy him. And an Astrid as well goes on to
• 8:11
  have her own, really driving a thread of the plot and it was
• 8:16
  brilliant. Yeah, sorry, that was a bit ease
• 8:19
  flirting even there when he said, well, I'll give you it
• 8:22
  back. Yeah.
• 8:24
  He's charming, isn't? He oh, he's really charming.
• 8:27
  You can see why he's heard about Five Families.
• 8:29
  I think the, the Faria salamander relationship is
• 8:34
  unusually adult, actually. And the few interactions that
• 8:38
  they have, you know, like when he goes, oh, she was hungry and
• 8:41
  things like, and he clearly likes having her around because
• 8:43
  she's very pretty, you know? And also he knows that she hates
• 8:47
  him. Yeah.
• 8:48
  I think he likes that. And he likes that.
• 8:51
  He likes that she he because he feels that she's in a position
• 8:55
  where she can't actually do anything without endangering
• 8:57
  herself, and he likes to have a sort of on the end of a string.
• 9:01
  It's having the power over her, isn't it really?
• 9:03
  It's it's yeah. It just shows you really not a
• 9:06
  nice. Person and I think Salamander is
• 9:08
  arrogant enough that he thinks that she would never do what she
• 9:11
  is doing right now. Absolutely.
• 9:12
  That he. That she's too afraid the pillow
• 9:14
  comes straight away, doesn't it? Like.
• 9:16
  Yeah. Oh yeah.
• 9:18
  Yeah, he holds the planet in a grip of fear.
• 9:23
  OK, the Doctor's like, OK, I might get involved in this
• 9:25
  episode. What?
• 9:26
  You really want me to do is kill him?
• 9:28
  Isn't it private justice? No, no, the doctor's not
• 9:33
  interested in that. But even that's quite adult.
• 9:36
  Doctor Who. Yeah, like talking about the
• 9:38
  ramifications of of what you're asking him to do.
• 9:41
  Normally, we just do it. We just get on with the plot,
• 9:43
  you know, we don't have all this talk.
• 9:45
  I wonder if it's that partly that salamander is human.
• 9:51
  Yes, and. He's so he's subject to,
• 9:55
  although he's put himself above, but he's subject to the laws of
• 9:59
  the planet that he's on and he's human.
• 10:03
  He's not an invading force or a threat from another planet,
• 10:09
  which would be particularly in sort of this period of Doctor
• 10:15
  Who, which will be repelled with all force from the moon or from
• 10:20
  the earth or wherever it is. He's, he's actually here and
• 10:23
  he's, he's one of us, so to speak.
• 10:26
  And maybe that's why you don't sort of also he's, he's a
• 10:31
  threatening person, but he has other people doing his violence
• 10:34
  for him. So you're not, it's not the
• 10:37
  point, not the point where the Doctor's going to be facing off
• 10:41
  against him with a no, it's not, it's not going to be pistols at
• 10:44
  dawn. It'll be the assassination.
• 10:46
  What is this bit all about with the woman in the pushchair?
• 10:49
  Yeah. I think it's, I think it's just
• 10:51
  to give it a bit of that this is actually happening in the sort
• 10:55
  of in the real world, even though it's only about 30 years
• 10:57
  in the future, 40 years in the future.
• 10:59
  It gives it that sort of realism.
• 11:02
  I think it is actually also sort of like a a film reference to
• 11:05
  something where there is I wouldn't be able to tell you
• 11:07
  what it is. Is it the?
• 11:09
  Battleship Potemkin that has a famous scene with the prime in
• 11:13
  it. Maybe is it shots from above
• 11:15
  like that? I don't know, but what happens
• 11:18
  is that a when the revolution? Well, I'm going to, I haven't
• 11:25
  obviously I haven't seen it because I'm not very well versed
• 11:28
  in, in films, but the, I've, I know that the scene is that the,
• 11:32
  the, there's a, a battle happening and it's in a city
• 11:36
  because that's where the mutiny is taking place on the
• 11:39
  battleship and the a woman loses her grip on the pram and it runs
• 11:47
  down the staircase. It runs down a set of concrete
• 11:51
  steps and presumably ends in. Awful tragedy.
• 12:00
  It's the the film Sean Connery got.
• 12:01
  Is it the? Yeah, the.
• 12:02
  Untouchables. It's in The Untouchables as
• 12:04
  well. It's and in one of the Naked Gun
• 12:07
  films too, where he's catching. Babies, Yeah.
• 12:10
  But yeah. It just feels so sort of
• 12:12
  visually jarring. It feels deliberate.
• 12:15
  It's it is odd and it's also odd because like you, like you're
• 12:20
  saying, there's not once they're in the Palace and wherever they
• 12:25
  are in their base in Australia or wherever, there isn't a lot
• 12:30
  more of the outside world. Whereas when you got the first
• 12:33
  couple of episodes, they were on the beach.
• 12:35
  It looked absolutely perishing, but they were on the beach
• 12:37
  anyway. And then they were Victoria and
• 12:40
  Jamie met up in the park with Faria and Astrid and it just but
• 12:46
  once it once it went inside, it was really inside.
• 12:51
  And there isn't it's there isn't so much film.
• 12:58
  It's done and it's done. Oh no, she's got shot.
• 13:00
  Yeah, it's. Yeah, it's really horrible, this
• 13:05
  thing. He literally threatens to shoot
• 13:07
  her. She's dying.
• 13:10
  It's like he doesn't even give her.
• 13:12
  There's no sort of warmth at all.
• 13:14
  He knows she's dying and he's still horrible to her.
• 13:18
  Yeah, because he's still Because he's.
• 13:24
  He's a great power. He knowledge is power and he's
• 13:27
  if he's got the knowledge, then he's that puts him in a more
• 13:30
  secure position with Salamander and it is all about him.
• 13:33
  He doesn't I don't think he cares 2 hoops about whatever
• 13:36
  else is going on. It's like who was it said to us
• 13:38
  saying the other day, Joe about him having a moment sitting in
• 13:40
  his nice big chair and they're going, yeah, this is nice one of
• 13:45
  one somebody else in one of your other episodes.
• 13:48
  I can't remember which one, but yes, he's just like if.
• 13:51
  If she's dead, then yes they are.
• 13:55
  There's the smile. Yeah, I loved her last.
• 13:57
  Lame as she says, only could. Only somebody can kill me once.
• 14:01
  Yes, exactly. Yeah.
• 14:03
  And he but the fact he just goes, oh, she's dead good.
• 14:07
  Yeah. Horrible, horrible.
• 14:09
  But she says you can't threaten me anymore, Bennett Yes.
• 14:12
  No, because I'm done. Yeah.
• 14:13
  Or you're like when I'm done. There's the two bits between the
• 14:16
  two guards where he says, do you always follow your orders?
• 14:20
  I get it. It's just a little bit more
• 14:21
  thoughtful than, yeah, especially during this period,
• 14:24
  sort of the monster era normally, yes.
• 14:26
  But that's David Whittaker for you, isn't?
• 14:28
  It yeah, I'm wondering. It's all their field, this
• 14:30
  story, isn't it? It's just so different to
• 14:33
  anything else that's. Yeah, we've got an actual human
• 14:37
  villain. I mean, I know later on we get
• 14:39
  born, but then he's in league with the Cybermen.
• 14:42
  Salamander is is He's the chief, he's doing it.
• 14:45
  He's the man in charge and he's a man.
• 14:50
  You you sort of stretch back as far as Edge of Destruction
• 14:53
  through the crusade power of the Daleks.
• 14:56
  David Whitaker always injects a lot of character into his story,
• 14:59
  doesn't he? Like unusually deep amount of
• 15:02
  character work, which I love about his scripts.
• 15:05
  Like it's so sad when he goes after Ambassador's death.
• 15:09
  Log your characters in that as well, although they don't who
• 15:12
  knows how much you know of. Who the hell wrote that one?
• 15:15
  I think a lot of people wrote that.
• 15:16
  I think more people wrote that than City of Death.
• 15:20
  David Agnew. Doctor Who by committee?
• 15:22
  Really. It works right.
• 15:23
  You work. Then yeah.
• 15:25
  This is the start of the the the real this, this is just so
• 15:28
  weird. This this whole what angle?
• 15:33
  Well, here's another question for all of you then.
• 15:35
  What? Yeah.
• 15:35
  Does it work better here? Or an invasion of the dinosaurs.
• 15:39
  Daniel. It's the same, basically the
• 15:44
  same. Plot, it's basically the same
• 15:46
  plot, but in both cases it's kind of like a left field
• 15:49
  development that sort of comes halfway through the story to
• 15:52
  give the story a bit more, you know, more legs.
• 15:55
  But I think, I think it's I think it's done better in
• 15:59
  Invasion of the Dinosaurs. I think it's a bit feels a bit
• 16:03
  more because the, because Sarah is involved with it, it feels
• 16:07
  like there's more agency and there's more more to sort of to
• 16:12
  our interest is is stronger with it because Sarah realizes that
• 16:16
  it's all a fraud and it's not, you know, she's still got the
• 16:19
  the cut in her head. If she's been travelling for
• 16:21
  three months, that should have cleared up by now.
• 16:23
  Whereas here we've just got some very interesting characters who
• 16:31
  we've never met before and none of the regular cast interact
• 16:34
  with them, apart from obviously Patrick Tram, but he's playing a
• 16:37
  different character than this this part.
• 16:40
  I suppose to like it. The real question is like,
• 16:41
  what's more plausible? The people that are like falled
• 16:46
  into thinking that nuclear war has taken place and they're down
• 16:48
  in a bunker. All the people that were falled
• 16:50
  into thinking they were on a spaceship heading to a new
• 16:53
  planet. And I kind of say this is more
• 16:55
  plausible. Possibly, yeah.
• 16:57
  But I think it is day and age when we look at the amount of
• 16:59
  disinformation that is is in the world, particularly in America
• 17:04
  at the moment. You know, you've got people
• 17:07
  saying that people in the Republic, in the Republican
• 17:11
  Party, saying that these storms that are happening in America at
• 17:13
  the moment are being caused by technology that the Democrats
• 17:18
  are using. It's just nonsense, but people
• 17:21
  are believing it. So people, it shows.
• 17:24
  It shows the gullibility of people.
• 17:25
  This is a good shot. This model shot I think is
• 17:27
  quite. Good.
• 17:27
  Yeah, human stupidity. You can't, no.
• 17:31
  Well, I mean there's. Just so many questions with it,
• 17:33
  though. How did they get there?
• 17:34
  What, how, what, what are they doing all day?
• 17:38
  Because we just see them in clipboards and doing, I mean,
• 17:40
  there's well, this, this will be whatever.
• 17:42
  It gets it gets revealed gradually, doesn't it?
• 17:45
  That what they exactly they're up to.
• 17:48
  And I just had to look it up because I remembered I couldn't
• 17:50
  remember the title of it, but there's a novel by Philip K Dick
• 17:53
  that this reminded me of when I watched it the first time called
• 17:57
  The Penultimate Truth. And it's about a future where
• 18:02
  most of humanity is underground. And they're told that World War
• 18:05
  3 is being fought above them, but actually it finished ages
• 18:08
  ago. And they're one of their, they,
• 18:15
  they think they're making synthetic organs for injured
• 18:21
  soldiers. And actually they're making them
• 18:24
  for these these people who are in charge.
• 18:27
  And there's the one of them gets up to the surface and discovers
• 18:31
  that actually things are very much not as he thought they
• 18:34
  were. Is that?
• 18:35
  Before or after this? It was.
• 18:38
  It might it probably before I should think.
• 18:40
  Did Philip K dig, watch Enemy of the World and go oh.
• 18:44
  No 1964. Oh, OK, so David Whitaker read
• 18:47
  that book and went. Well, it was a thing that was.
• 18:50
  It was a thing that was current though, because the idea of a
• 18:52
  nuclear conflict, which would involve being underground and
• 18:58
  isolated and cut off from news and everything.
• 19:03
  And then how would you know what was going on outside?
• 19:05
  There's a whole episode of of Mission Impossible, which I
• 19:09
  think is the second or third series, where they, they fool
• 19:12
  somebody into thinking that that's happened and they have
• 19:14
  this whole nuclear winter screen going on up, up above the
• 19:16
  bunker. So it was an idea that was about
• 19:19
  at the time I. Dig their fab gear?
• 19:21
  They all look like they're wearing jigsaw puzzles pajamas.
• 19:24
  They're pajamas, yes, and there's that Music is from the
• 19:31
  It's also used for the Web of Fear, isn't it, for that scene
• 19:33
  at the beginning for NFC one? It is really great though you,
• 19:37
  you said about that model work and that's about a couple of
• 19:40
  minutes, that's it with no dialogue at all and you're like,
• 19:42
  what the hell is going on? Where's he going?
• 19:45
  Oh, this guy. Invasion of the dinosaurs.
• 19:48
  All they do is walk in that room, open the filing cabinet,
• 19:51
  and then we're told the lift has gone down.
• 19:52
  We're in enemy of the world. We see the whole thing.
• 19:55
  Yeah, that's calling fairly. I was watching this show today
• 19:59
  and I thought you saw. It he's so annoying.
• 20:03
  Yeah. He's gone.
• 20:08
  Well, he's. Let me go with.
• 20:10
  Him, he's gone. He's gone nuts from being
• 20:12
  underground all the. Time.
• 20:15
  Cabin fever, Yeah. I mean, you've only got to watch
• 20:17
  a few episodes of Big Brother to know how stir crazy people can
• 20:21
  get, you know? How long have they been
• 20:23
  underground now? 5.
• 20:25
  Years. A few years.
• 20:27
  Oh my God. You.
• 20:28
  Three, you three would have me dead within a week, I think.
• 20:32
  They, they were obviously it comes out later, but they were
• 20:36
  sent down in believing that there was an emergency,
• 20:39
  believing that they were at war. And so as far as they're
• 20:42
  concerned, that's been happening ever since.
• 20:45
  So they're constantly on edge and he comes down and he's tatty
• 20:48
  over. Also, he's just appeared saying
• 20:51
  that he's, you know, he's been risking the radiation to come
• 20:54
  and see them and gets a little more each time.
• 20:57
  And yeah, so it's all, it's all meant.
• 20:59
  It's all set up to make them tense and not question what's
• 21:02
  happening. And I think it works because
• 21:04
  Trout was so convincing. You know, like you could see how
• 21:06
  we would have hoodwinked them all.
• 21:09
  Yeah, it's just though that you just see them there, like with
• 21:11
  these books, if things that he brings down every time he
• 21:15
  visits, but what they do in the rest of the time, there's no
• 21:17
  sense of. They're just sort of walking
• 21:19
  around in this room, you know? Well, they're they're, they're
• 21:22
  checking, they're keeping and watching their instruments and
• 21:24
  they're waiting to do the next natural disaster against what
• 21:28
  they think is the enemy. So that's, that's good, right?
• 21:32
  So they know that they're doing it, but they don't realise.
• 21:35
  Everything they don't realise the.
• 21:36
  Story above surface One of the questions that Cipher Us was do
• 21:41
  you think that this twist reveal should have been seeded more in
• 21:46
  the earlier episodes? But you know, it kind of ease
• 21:49
  because the natural disasters have been happening since the
• 21:51
  start of the story. Yeah, he's doing it somehow.
• 21:54
  How is he doing it? This is how he's doing it.
• 21:56
  I just figured he had, you know, like a plunger or something that
• 21:58
  you put like Professor Zara off, you know, a big lever that you
• 22:01
  pulled and up they go. Oh, they got they got a barrel
• 22:05
  of what in his light ale look. Probably party 6.
• 22:09
  It's later on when you sorry now go on.
• 22:11
  I was just going to say it is quite funny when because it's
• 22:14
  obviously brought food from you actually get a box that says
• 22:16
  milk on it and and it's got glass on this.
• 22:19
  I mean. Dave, I would brave any
• 22:24
  radiation to bring you a box of milk.
• 22:26
  All right? Do you think we need this sort
• 22:31
  of extra plot though, to stretch this to six episodes?
• 22:35
  Yes. Yeah, yes.
• 22:37
  And I also, it means that it's it adds, it adds the extra
• 22:43
  dimension that is only revealed at the last, almost at the last
• 22:47
  minute, and that Astrid can become involved and have her own
• 22:52
  likes, like Sarah on the spaceship.
• 22:53
  This becomes Astrid's plot for it, doesn't it?
• 22:56
  That she's she's the one who makes the discovery.
• 22:58
  She's the one who finds out this side of what's happening, which
• 23:03
  nothing has been revealed about by anyone else for, as we will
• 23:06
  discover later on, very good reasons I.
• 23:09
  Think she's very kind though. I mean, if I and they said to to
• 23:13
  me, oh, you know, the nuclear, I'll be like, oh, you didn't
• 23:16
  fall for that old trick, did you?
• 23:18
  Come on, you idiots. No, she's a bit, she's a bit
• 23:21
  sort of short tempered when she gets down there, isn't she?
• 23:23
  Well, we'll get to that. But once she realises how
• 23:26
  completely rung out they all are from having been down there
• 23:30
  thinking there's a war going on upstairs all the time.
• 23:33
  It's most unlike Doctor Who, though, to have a plot within
• 23:36
  the plot that you're not aware of for like half of the story.
• 23:40
  It's very unusual for Doctor Who to take a detour like this.
• 23:43
  Yeah. But again, like you say, it's
• 23:45
  it's it's been sort of seeded because we don't know how he's
• 23:49
  called. We know the natural disasters
• 23:51
  being caused. This is Doctor Who.
• 23:53
  So presumably they're being caused by some scientific
• 23:59
  bobbins and but but that hasn't been revealed yet.
• 24:03
  And actually, when it when it comes round completely and you
• 24:07
  get the whole story, it's what more of a satisfying ending.
• 24:12
  Scientific bobbins? Is that the official term?
• 24:14
  I think so. It's weird, but when Colin says
• 24:19
  some of his lines he he's looking over Mary's shoulders if
• 24:23
  he's looking at A at a cue card. I think he's supposed to be or.
• 24:28
  Is he? Is it just sort of like the
• 24:30
  slightly? He's meant to be just out there,
• 24:34
  I think, not being out there. You see the fella in the middle
• 24:38
  there, he's got that sort of fabulous checkered pattern.
• 24:40
  The woman to the side, she's got that sort of fabulous swirly
• 24:43
  sort of time tunnel off. He put a lot of thought into the
• 24:45
  costume. Yeah, I wonder This fella,
• 24:47
  what's his name, Colin, is pissed off.
• 24:49
  He's just got boring strikes. That shot we just saw there was
• 24:53
  fabulous. You've seen Salamander in a
• 24:55
  chair with a with a cigar, and there's.
• 24:57
  A total building show, isn't it? Yeah, that one says Bad guy.
• 25:00
  Like like Big Thick. Not only it's not only easy a
• 25:04
  villain, he's enjoying it. Oh.
• 25:06
  I mean, I never thought of that. Of course it's a massive bomb.
• 25:10
  Pasties it is. Isn't it?
• 25:11
  A secret? Underground secret.
• 25:14
  Underground base. Yeah, yeah, it's.
• 25:17
  Not quite like the movies, though.
• 25:18
  You know, where the enormous Scott, you know the the whole
• 25:20
  top of the base opens up. Oh.
• 25:22
  Yeah, but we did, we did have the the exploding, the exploding
• 25:26
  helicopter from from Russia with love.
• 25:28
  Oh. Yes, yes, we did.
• 25:31
  We did. Now that still.
• 25:33
  Hasn't done anything has he? We're 4 episodes in.
• 25:36
  Yeah, and it doesn't say. It's a very strange point to it
• 25:39
  because you don't see who those feet belong to.
• 25:43
  Because I'd always remembered from sort of, you know, reading
• 25:46
  synopsis and and archives in Doctor Magazine as a kid.
• 25:49
  It says that Donald Swan. Enter Donald Swan.
• 25:52
  Sorry. With a hippopotamus.
• 25:55
  Bruce. Yes, Donald, Bruce enters.
• 25:59
  And you don't know who it is. It could be anyone, just a pair
• 26:01
  of shoes. It could be Bennick.
• 26:03
  It could be, you know, whoever. I know we've kind of said this
• 26:07
  before, right? But, you know, of all the
• 26:10
  episodes, like Episode 3, yeah, where they just hang out in a
• 26:13
  corridor and make some food in the kitchen.
• 26:15
  I mean, if this episode had been the episode that that had
• 26:18
  retained all these years, everyone would be going.
• 26:21
  I don't want to see the rest of any.
• 26:24
  Yeah. Yeah, Underground base, yeah.
• 26:28
  Trying to make a cigar. Nuclear war.
• 26:31
  You know, the doctor impersonating somebody.
• 26:33
  Mind you, Griffin, the chef. Come on.
• 26:35
  The payoff's pretty good. It was a shame that was the
• 26:38
  episode that got routine, but thankfully we've got them all.
• 26:42
  OK, well then before we out episode 4, what episode would
• 26:46
  you choose if only one could be kept?
• 26:51
  Lucy. Oh, I don't know, it's hard,
• 26:54
  isn't it? Because when you take any
• 26:56
  episode out of context, it automatically lose because it's
• 26:59
  part of the whole. So whatever you keep will never,
• 27:04
  even if you know what the rest of the story is, it will never
• 27:07
  sort of portray the whole the sort of a feeling that you have
• 27:12
  from watching it from the beginning right through you're,
• 27:14
  you're at a stage in it rather than just putting it on and
• 27:17
  watching it in one segment. So.
• 27:20
  Is that your way of saying you don't want to choose one?
• 27:22
  I don't think I can choose one because when you because you
• 27:26
  start at the I mean, usually the first episode will be useful one
• 27:30
  to have, although whether how much mileage you'd get out of
• 27:34
  the doctor frolicking in his long Johns on the beach, but
• 27:36
  Worthing or wherever it was. We enjoyed it immensely when we
• 27:40
  watched it together. I'm sure.
• 27:43
  But the yeah, it's just it's we. It's funny because when you take
• 27:46
  the context away, it will automatically lose some of its
• 27:51
  excitement because you build it up as you're watching it so.
• 27:55
  I love doing these 4 experiments with you.
• 27:56
  Your morality shines through every time.
• 27:58
  You know, Daniel, how about you? Well, I'm going to be shallow
• 28:02
  and say initially I was going to choose Episode 1 because it
• 28:05
  looks fabulous with all the film work.
• 28:08
  But actually I think if I had a choice to keep one, probably
• 28:12
  would be Episode 2 because that's where the mystery sort of
• 28:15
  starts and we get some very good character work.
• 28:18
  It introduces us to various characters like Faria, and
• 28:23
  that's where we get to see that sort of slightly sinister
• 28:26
  relationship between her and Salamander.
• 28:28
  And it's a very good, there are some very good performances in
• 28:31
  there. It gets to show Jamie in quite a
• 28:34
  dynamic way in, in infiltrating Salamander's base.
• 28:40
  And there's there's a lot going on.
• 28:41
  There's plenty of intrigue. So yeah, if I had to keep just
• 28:43
  one or, you know, if that was sort of yeah, it would be
• 28:47
  episode 2, I think, because it's a really good one.
• 28:50
  Dave. I'd say the first episode, often
• 28:54
  the first episode is more often than not the best episode or the
• 28:58
  one that shows off. They put all the money on the
• 29:00
  screen and the first episode, they definitely do it.
• 29:02
  And that's they they've got the. Helicopters.
• 29:04
  Yeah, each helicopter. Craft.
• 29:07
  So and you know, flooding with our stretch.
• 29:10
  And battles. Yeah, I, I, I, I just think if I
• 29:16
  would say that with probably every message story, well, when
• 29:18
  if this was still missing would be the first episode because
• 29:22
  it's, it's a stage that they often just shovel the money at
• 29:28
  the first stage now. Just how many of the episode
• 29:31
  ones of these missing stories do you have then?
• 29:34
  To. Build your.
• 29:35
  I wish. He has he has episode 1 of the
• 29:37
  Space Pirates and guess what? It's still boring.
• 29:40
  Episode 1 of Marco Polo is holding out of everyone to
• 29:44
  Scotland quick. Like Can you imagine, for
• 29:46
  example, the first episode, the myth makers, for example?
• 29:48
  Oh. Please.
• 29:50
  Yeah, I mean, I say that so badly.
• 29:52
  The sword battle and and Doctor Bean, Zeus and all the rest of
• 29:55
  it. I.
• 29:56
  Want to keep my powder dry a little bit but I would keep 6
• 30:00
  because I think I really like OK.
• 30:03
  This is not keeping my powder dry.
• 30:04
  So I really like the sort of ambiguous way the story ends
• 30:09
  with all the characters that we don't really get any payouts.
• 30:11
  And you do that. They do that a lot in Series 5.
• 30:13
  You often say try everybody and and we get sort of a good
• 30:17
  character payoff for everybody. But I think the last scene in
• 30:20
  the TARDIS is some of Barry Letts's best ever direction
• 30:23
  during the two the Doctor and Salamander.
• 30:25
  Yeah, it's great. And just for the bit where they
• 30:27
  drag Patrick Trout and along the floor you get sucked out of the
• 30:30
  TARDIS. It's so funny.
• 30:32
  It's a great final scene. Well, fortunately we're not in
• 30:36
  the position where we have to choose one episode because we
• 30:38
  can watch the lot. Well should we go and watch
• 30:41
  episode 5 then?