Latest / The iAlign Podcast with Flint Mitchell / #16 - Turning No Into Yes, Paranormal Activity, and Brutal Honesty Behind The Veil of Hollywood With Writer's Agent Martin Spencer

Transcript

#16 - Turning No Into Yes, Paranormal Activity, and Brutal Honesty Behind The Veil of Hollywood With Writer's Agent Martin Spencer · The iAlign Podcast with Flint Mitchell

0:09
SPEAKER_00: What's up y'all?
0:10
SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Seeking Authenticity.
0:12
SPEAKER_00: My name is Flint Mitchell, and I get absolutely psyched by having conversations with authentic people that I admire about the things they value.
0:21
SPEAKER_00: Their stories and perspectives don't just make me smile, laugh, and think.
0:25
SPEAKER_00: They inspire me to wake up earlier, listen better, focus, and work harder, and help make me a better version of myself.
0:32
SPEAKER_00: And it's my hope that sharing these conversations through this podcast might do the same thing for you.
0:39
SPEAKER_00: In this episode, I talk with Martin Spencer, a writer's agent in Hollywood.
0:44
SPEAKER_00: I've known Martin my entire life through family.
0:46
SPEAKER_00: He's the kind of guy who tells the waiter at a restaurant that it's your birthday when it's not, every single time you go out.
0:53
SPEAKER_00: Martin is loaded with jokes and fun stories, but he's also incredibly passionate about his field of work.
0:59
SPEAKER_00: He absolutely loves movies.
1:01
SPEAKER_00: From the process of how they're made, to the experience of watching them, to the impact that they can have on the world.
1:07
SPEAKER_00: He has a ton of knowledge about the film industry, and it was a blast to hear his take on it.
1:11
SPEAKER_00: In this conversation, we talk about his entry into Hollywood as a young kid through his father, about all the hard work, long wait times, and honestly, luck of just being in the right place at the right time for these films to be made.
1:23
SPEAKER_00: We talk about the brutal honesty required in the industry, about his adventure seeing the movie Paranormal Activity from before its acquisition to when it was played on the big screen.
1:32
SPEAKER_00: And lastly, about the types of strong bonds and relationships that are needed in this line of work.
1:38
SPEAKER_00: I learned a lot from Martin, and I had a blast listening to him.
1:41
SPEAKER_00: And I know you will too.
1:42
SPEAKER_00: Enjoy.
1:48
SPEAKER_02: You would say no right away, and then my job is to turn that no into a yes, and and you make uh you know you make 500 phone calls to get one person a job.
1:58
SPEAKER_02: But it was amazing to see something literally at day one and follow how they release this movie.
2:08
SPEAKER_02: This is a business of the little things, though.
2:11
SPEAKER_02: You know, everybody sees the big picture, but it's the little things that that get the job done.
2:18
SPEAKER_02: You've got some really, really smart people that never get any fame and nobody knows who they are.
2:25
SPEAKER_02: Their names are on the screen for a reason.
2:28
SPEAKER_02: Always ask questions, always always want to know more, always be inquisitive.
2:33
SPEAKER_02: Getting my popcorn and drink and finding my seat and sitting down and watching five or six great trailers of films that I didn't know anything about, and then watching a film.
2:43
SPEAKER_02: I think there is no better experience than going to the movies.
2:50
SPEAKER_00: Thanks for doing this with me, Martin.
2:52
SPEAKER_00: I appreciate it.
2:53
SPEAKER_00: Thank you for having me.
2:55
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
2:55
SPEAKER_00: It's always been fun talking with you because I don't have uh any real connections to Hollywood or the movie industry, and so it's kind of fun to hear those stories from you.
3:04
SPEAKER_00: Something I was interested in, and I was thinking about before this this episode was I was wondering what your first experiences were with Hollywood.
3:13
SPEAKER_00: Maybe the first time you you I as I remember you moved there when you were young from England.
3:19
SPEAKER_00: Um maybe what was it like seeing it, and then were were you immediately kind of like, I want to be a part of this?
3:26
SPEAKER_02: Um my first experience is when I was a boy.
3:30
SPEAKER_02: I moved here when I was uh almost 11.
3:33
SPEAKER_02: And my stepfather was a writer producer for television variety shows.
3:37
SPEAKER_02: He wrote for Sonny and Cher, produced uh produced their television shows.
3:42
SPEAKER_02: Wow.
3:42
SPEAKER_02: And um he would produce, write and produce Christmas specials.
3:47
SPEAKER_02: And if he needed uh if he needed a little shepherd boy in a Christmas show, I got pulled into uh dressing up like a shepherd and walking through the set.
3:56
SPEAKER_02: So my first experiences with the entertainment business were as a young boy and just seeing it firsthand and kind of loving it from that point forward.
4:06
SPEAKER_02: I always knew I was gonna do something in the business.
4:09
SPEAKER_02: I just didn't know what it was gonna be.
4:12
SPEAKER_00: Interesting.
4:12
SPEAKER_00: Then your first experiences in the industry were kind of not necessarily acting, but in front of the camera.
4:17
SPEAKER_00: Was that ever a goal?
4:20
SPEAKER_02: Uh, I thought about it for five minutes, but being an actor is a really tough part of the business.
4:27
SPEAKER_02: It's you have to be really good and really well trained and really lucky, and you have to be truly dedicated to your craft.
4:39
SPEAKER_02: And I think acting is something that it's one of the hardest things to do because you have to find you have to become somebody different every single time.
4:49
SPEAKER_02: Right.
4:50
SPEAKER_02: And it's a hard thing to do, and there are certain people that are great at it, right?
4:54
SPEAKER_02: The great actors find something different in each role, and um, and it's just a very hard thing to do, and you have to be ready to you know hear the word no all the time.
5:08
SPEAKER_02: But a theme that I have found in being an agent is, and I think it goes apart for being it's a part of every aspect of the business.
5:19
SPEAKER_02: The job that you in that you uh follow or the path that you follow in the entertainment business, everything begins with no.
5:26
SPEAKER_02: When somebody says no, you have to figure out a way to turn a no into a yes.
5:31
SPEAKER_02: So whether you're an actor who is rejected for a role and you really want that role, you've got to figure out a way to you know get to the producer or get to somebody else around the production and figure out a way to turn a no into a yes.
5:46
SPEAKER_02: Or if you're uh an agent and I'm trying to sell a director into a movie and the producer says no, I've got to think of a way to turn that no into a yes.
5:57
SPEAKER_02: So every job begins with the word no.
6:00
SPEAKER_02: If it was yes every time, it would be so much more fun and so much easier, but it's not.
6:04
SPEAKER_02: Uh it's a lot of fun, but it's just it's never easy.
6:07
SPEAKER_02: But I think every job begins with the word no, and you have to convince someone how to how to say yes.
6:13
SPEAKER_00: That's crazy.
6:14
SPEAKER_00: And is there any point?
6:15
SPEAKER_00: I mean, this is actually an interesting question for me.
6:17
SPEAKER_00: Is is there any point or at what point in an actor's career do they start to hear the word yes?
6:24
SPEAKER_00: Is it only the top like 1% or less?
6:30
SPEAKER_02: Well, I've never been an actor, so I couldn't, I couldn't directly answer the question.
6:34
SPEAKER_02: But um I think it's a it's a it's a combination of things.
6:39
SPEAKER_02: It's uh you know, are you right for that part?
6:43
SPEAKER_02: Are you can you become that person?
6:46
SPEAKER_02: Um I think if you're a you know, if you're um if you're a working actor in today's world, you're very lucky.
6:55
SPEAKER_02: Uh it all looks very glamorous, it all looks, you know, it all looks like it's all fun and games and parties and premieres.
7:01
SPEAKER_02: I promise you it's not.
7:02
SPEAKER_02: When no, when actors get a role, um depending on on how they prepare for it, but they some some people go right into that part and become that person.
7:13
SPEAKER_02: It takes months to prepare to become that character.
7:19
SPEAKER_02: So you've got to cut yourself off from friends and family, you've got to immerse yourself in the character and in the world.
7:27
SPEAKER_02: Um, and I I think acting is really tough.
7:30
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I think writing is really tough, producing is really hard, directing is really tough.
7:35
SPEAKER_02: I mean, every aspect of it is really, really hard.
7:38
SPEAKER_02: But yeah, you know, the question was about actors.
7:41
SPEAKER_02: The best actors become those characters.
7:43
SPEAKER_02: I mean, Meryl Street becomes those characters.
7:47
SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, Matt Damon becomes those characters, or you know, Russell Crowe becomes, you know, the gladiator.
7:57
SPEAKER_02: He becomes that person.
7:58
SPEAKER_02: You kind of lose, you know, if you're really good at that your craft, people forget they're looking at Russell Crowe and they see the Spaniard, or they, you know, they forget that it's Merrill Streep and they see Margaret Thatcher.
8:12
SPEAKER_02: There's lots of examples of great actors who just immerse themselves in the role.
8:17
SPEAKER_02: And as a as an audience member, you want to forget you're watching uh, you know, name of the actor, and you think you're watching Margaret Thatcher.
8:27
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, two thoughts for that.
8:28
SPEAKER_00: The first one is I saw behind the scenes of some Jim Carrey movie, and apparently he just goes, I mean, you you like he becomes that person.
8:38
SPEAKER_00: You there is no more Jim Carrey.
8:39
SPEAKER_00: But also the second thought I had when you were saying that was how fantastic it would be to wake up and go, I am Jason Bourne.
8:46
SPEAKER_00: Right.
8:48
SPEAKER_00: That's pretty awesome.
8:50
SPEAKER_02: So then a lot of that with actors is their relationship with the director.
8:56
SPEAKER_02: So um, you know, I think uh when you look at someone like Martin Scorsese, who is a brilliant filmmaker, um he's worked several times with Leonardo DiCaprio, and I think their relationship as actor and director, not movie star, just actor and director, they they like to work together.
9:18
SPEAKER_02: They like to create that character, they like to think, you know, what is that person going to do in that situation?
9:25
SPEAKER_02: So you see a lot of uh, you know, a lot of really successful actors working with the same filmmaker because they number one, they enjoy the process, number two, they enjoy working with that filmmaker, they enjoy the material that they're working with.
9:39
SPEAKER_02: But a lot of what you see, you know, Jim Carrey's a really good example.
9:44
SPEAKER_02: He's you know, he's done some really funny comedies and he's done some great dramas as well, but you see a range of character, you don't just see the same person every single time.
9:57
SPEAKER_02: I think actors like to flex their muscles and become other people if they were just the same person every single time.
10:03
SPEAKER_02: I think a lot of them would just, you know, it become they don't want to do it by rope, but they want to find something new every time.
10:09
SPEAKER_02: That's what the experience is for them.
10:11
SPEAKER_00: Interesting.
10:12
SPEAKER_00: That makes me wonder then, on the writer side, are writers typically writing the same kind of movie, or is it common for a writer to to write for multiple really big movies, or is it more of like a one-hit wonder kind of thing?
10:29
SPEAKER_02: Um, there are great writers who will write different things every single time.
10:34
SPEAKER_02: I think it's a little different in television if you're writing a half-hour comedy.
10:38
SPEAKER_02: You've always got you've got to find you're writing a half-hour comedy, a network comedy, you've got to, you know, you've got to keep the character focused and deliver a, you know, get through the story and and deliver the the punchline and be able to handle the rigors of doing a half-hour show.
10:56
SPEAKER_02: That can be really stressful as well.
10:58
SPEAKER_02: But um writers, I think for the most part, like to do things different every single time.
11:04
SPEAKER_02: I mean, some writers become known for writing action scripts, or they become for you know for writing science fiction films, or it's it's they try not to get pigeonholed.
11:15
SPEAKER_02: You know, nobody in the business wants to get pigeonholed as doing the same thing because you just it becomes kind of boring after a certain time.
11:23
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
11:23
SPEAKER_02: You want to try and find something new every time, and you want to not be known for doing one thing.
11:29
SPEAKER_02: You want to be known for doing lots of different things.
11:31
SPEAKER_02: So if there's a book that's out there that you love and somebody thinks you're not right to adapt it because you've done three comedies, then you've got to have a more kind of dramatic writing sample to show to that producer and that studio that you're capable of taking on, you know, much different material.
11:51
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
11:53
SPEAKER_00: And then I guess it would be great to get more of a better summary from you on the roles you've played.
12:01
SPEAKER_00: Do you it sounded like from from our previous interactions that you help uh uh connect scripts and writers with uh producers?
12:13
SPEAKER_00: Was right.
12:14
SPEAKER_02: So I'm I'm a literary agent, I represent writers and directors.
12:19
SPEAKER_02: Um if I have uh a client who writes a script on spec, which means they write it for themselves, they give it to me, and then we strategize on how to take it out to producers and then to studios or to a director, uh, to an actor, try and package it, try and put some elements into the project and then take it out to the buyers and hopefully sell it.
12:41
SPEAKER_02: Um but it's it's uh you know, writers tend to, they're either gonna write on spec or they'll take an assignment, which means that the project is either set up with a studio or there's a producer who's gonna pay for a script.
12:56
SPEAKER_02: Um you want to try and find the right material and and hopefully get your clients working on really good, you know, really good adaptations or really good uh you know articles to adapt or finding what do you mean by adaptations in that context?
13:12
SPEAKER_02: So if there's a a book, um if uh if an author writes a book, if if Flint Mitchell writes a great book, uh which I know he does all the time, but if uh you know if you if uh if that book was purchased by a studio uh and uh and there was a producer attached to it, then and it became what's known as an open writing assignment, um, then my job is to try and match up a writer client of mine with that piece of material uh and uh you know hopefully convince you, the the author and whoever the producer is, uh that my client is the right person to adapt it.
13:53
SPEAKER_02: And you would say no right away, and then my job is to turn that no into a yes and convince the studio why my client's the right person to do it, and then they say no right away, and then I've got to convince them why it's the right choice.
14:06
SPEAKER_02: And and you make uh you know you make 500 phone calls to get one person a job.
14:10
SPEAKER_02: So it's a it's a challenge, but an adaptation is something that's already been written in another form, either a book, an article, a podcast, maybe like this, something else that's written in another form that's going to be then adapted for film andor television.
14:27
SPEAKER_02: Interesting.
14:28
SPEAKER_00: What are the most common reasons people say no to creating an adaptation?
14:35
SPEAKER_02: Uh the most common reason, they don't think that writer is um has a uh has a body of work that reflects what that is.
14:44
SPEAKER_02: I mean, if a writer writes, if a writer is known for writing either action scripts or um something something different, and then there's an adaptation that is a straight drama, um, then chances are the producer in the studio are gonna say, well, they're they're they're an action writer, I haven't written anything, I haven't read anything that has the same tonality as this uh as this book or this article, so why are they the right person to do it?
15:14
SPEAKER_02: Sure.
15:14
SPEAKER_02: And you've got to convince them why, and hopefully, you know, hopefully you can uh ultimately what you want to do is get your client in the room or now on a zoom call because no one's in the room anymore, but you want to get your client on a phone call or on a Zoom call with the producer and or the studio and let them tell you know the other parties why they're the right person to do it.
15:39
SPEAKER_02: And hopefully there's a personal connection.
15:42
SPEAKER_02: So uh that personal connection really comes through.
15:46
SPEAKER_02: You know, if the writer is known for writing a different genre, but if they have a personal connection to the material, if it's somehow relates to something in their life, um that will hopefully come through.
15:58
SPEAKER_02: And as long as they have a great take on the material, as long as they have a way to take one story and say how you're gonna write how they're gonna write it for a film, yeah, then hopefully that that comes through in the in the conversation.
16:10
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
16:11
SPEAKER_00: Is that one of the more common ways that then films are produced are adaptations, or are a lot of them original scripts?
16:20
SPEAKER_02: Well, lately it's a lot of um a lot of uh you want to find great IP.
16:27
SPEAKER_02: You want to, I mean, that's really um important to find books or articles, um things that have uh an awareness out in the marketplace because um it just helps.
16:40
SPEAKER_02: It's it's you know great original material will always find an audience, uh, will always find fans, and hopefully a studio will want to do that.
16:49
SPEAKER_02: But um today, having a great piece of intellectual property or IP, it really helps because that means that um an audience has already found the material, maybe they've already read the book or they've read the comic book.
17:04
SPEAKER_02: Um you know, Iron Man was a piece of IP that had obviously been around for a long, long time, and there were a lot of people attached to do an Iron Man film before uh before it got made with um with Robert Downey Jr.
17:19
SPEAKER_02: and and uh John Favreau.
17:22
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that makes sense.
17:24
SPEAKER_00: Um do you have maybe in your own personal work, has the majority of it been adaptations or have you have you had original scripts come through you or writers come through you that you were pretty excited about?
17:36
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's been both.
17:37
SPEAKER_02: Um I mean over the course of my career I I have represented and continue to represent some amazing storytellers.
17:46
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, um, they are I I mean, as a as representing writers can be the most fun because when you get a phone call from your client and says, you know, I've got a great story to tell you, just block everything else out.
18:02
SPEAKER_02: You've got to zero in and focus in.
18:05
SPEAKER_02: And you get sometimes you just get you hear amazing stories, you get just carried away by the stories that they want to tell.
18:13
SPEAKER_02: And right even better when they call you up and say, I've written a brand new, you know, spec script, and you know, that afternoon it shows up on your on your computer, you read it that night, and and there's great material to be read.
18:26
SPEAKER_02: It's um it's it's a lot of fun.
18:28
SPEAKER_02: When you read a great script, you know it right away.
18:31
SPEAKER_02: You know it right away, and you just you you want to do that material justice and figure out to get it into the right hands of the right people.
18:38
SPEAKER_02: Interesting.
18:38
SPEAKER_00: But I I want to ask about that.
18:40
SPEAKER_00: What and you said this before, I forgot to ask.
18:43
SPEAKER_00: What is exactly a spec script?
18:45
SPEAKER_02: A spec script is when your client writes it uh without getting paid for it.
18:49
SPEAKER_02: They're writing it themselves, they're writing it for themselves, nobody can nobody controls it, nobody owns it.
18:56
SPEAKER_02: Uh the uh it can be optioned, it can be purchased.
19:00
SPEAKER_02: Um a spec script is something that a writer writes himself um and then uh and then gives it to an agent to go out there and try and sell.
19:09
SPEAKER_00: Interesting.
19:10
SPEAKER_00: Um that sounds like a tough process, but it then again that right, the person who who wrote it then owns everything about it as opposed to Iron Man.
19:21
SPEAKER_00: I'm sure there's lots of legal intricacies dealing with something that's been established for decades.
19:27
SPEAKER_00: But what I was interested on beforehand was I I love when you say when you read a good script, you just know.
19:34
SPEAKER_00: Are there is it really just a feeling, or are there certain things that usually stick out to you?
19:41
SPEAKER_02: Um a little bit of both.
19:43
SPEAKER_02: I mean, you you can tell when you've got a really good piece of material in your hands.
19:47
SPEAKER_02: I mean, you just know it.
19:49
SPEAKER_02: Um then the challenge is figuring out who you want to get it to and how to add pieces to it that are gonna help get it made.
19:57
SPEAKER_02: I mean, there are some great scripts that just have not been made.
20:01
SPEAKER_02: There's a long, a long list of great unproduced scripts.
20:06
SPEAKER_02: Um, and it's not that they're um there's nothing wrong with them.
20:11
SPEAKER_02: They just sometimes it takes a long time to get, you know, film it takes a long time to get a film made.
20:16
SPEAKER_02: It's a miracle that a film gets made at all, as as uh one of my mentors said to me years ago, it's a miracle that a film ever gets made.
20:24
SPEAKER_02: But it's um there's a long list of great unproduced scripts, and then it's really about getting it to the right person, and hopefully, and hopefully they see the same thing as you.
20:37
SPEAKER_02: I mean, the one thing about the entertainment business is it's extremely subjective.
20:42
SPEAKER_02: What one person likes, somebody else may not have that same reaction.
20:46
SPEAKER_02: Um when some when films get reviewed, one critic loves it and the other critic you know maybe doesn't love it.
20:53
SPEAKER_02: So you never know you never know what day the person that's seeing the film is having.
21:01
SPEAKER_02: You never know the day that the person that's reading your script is having.
21:05
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
21:05
SPEAKER_02: You just hope that they're having a good day and that they're gonna hopefully have the same reaction as you.
21:10
SPEAKER_02: So it's it's really it's very lucky that uh that the stars line up in the right way.
21:18
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
21:19
SPEAKER_00: And it kind of that emphasizes then that it's not even just having I mean, it's about having a vast network because certain people, like you said, are not going to like certain things.
21:31
SPEAKER_00: And so if you are trying to sell a variety of different genres, you need a variety of different people who actually appreciate those genres.
21:38
SPEAKER_00: And then you need them to have a good day.
21:42
SPEAKER_02: You know, there are some really good producers out there who do a lot, a lot of different things.
21:49
SPEAKER_02: And um, you know, you will you gotta have really good relationships out there.
21:53
SPEAKER_02: It's a business that is really incumbent on having good relationships, on having good taste when you make a phone call.
22:00
SPEAKER_02: Somebody and say, Would you read this script?
22:02
SPEAKER_02: I think it's really good.
22:04
SPEAKER_02: You want them to think that you have good taste.
22:06
SPEAKER_02: And it's you know, it's really important.
22:09
SPEAKER_02: When you're asking someone to take an hour or an hour and a half out of their time to do something, you don't want them to put it down and say, God, that was awful.
22:18
SPEAKER_02: What is that?
22:18
SPEAKER_02: Well, what's what is Martin thinking?
22:20
SPEAKER_02: You want them to put it down and say, That's a really good script.
22:23
SPEAKER_02: I've got to call Martin right away and find out what's going on with it.
22:26
SPEAKER_02: So you're known for having for having taste and having an opinion.
22:32
SPEAKER_02: It's really important to have a point of view and be very honest with the person that's reading the script.
22:38
SPEAKER_02: You have to be, you have to be brutally honest about things.
22:42
SPEAKER_02: And it's a hard thing sometimes to uh to tell somebody you know what you really think.
22:49
SPEAKER_02: I mean, there's there is an art form to to saying no or to you know rejecting.
22:54
SPEAKER_02: You don't have to bash somebody over the head.
22:57
SPEAKER_02: I mean you can just say, I really, really enjoyed the read.
23:00
SPEAKER_02: This one's not for me.
23:01
SPEAKER_02: Or you know, you gotta think of a way to say thank you for sending me the script because you want them to send you more material.
23:09
SPEAKER_02: But you can you just you have to be honest with the people you're you're talking to, and that all comes with having relationships over a period of time and over the course of one's career.
23:20
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
23:21
SPEAKER_00: It's and and I like that take, which is uh there is a way of being you you do have to be honest with people, but you don't necessarily have to be a jerk about it.
23:32
SPEAKER_00: Um, especially if in an industry like this where those relationships are a huge part of creating a successful film is is is like you're saying, putting the right people together.
23:45
SPEAKER_00: Um I also think it's interesting because the the general view of Hollywood is more of a flashy right kind of show.
24:03
SPEAKER_00: I mean you're putting on a show, but then I like that other side of it, which is on the inside, there's no, it's not flashy, it's it's very hard, brutal honesty.
24:15
SPEAKER_00: Like you have people are making honest decisions and telling people exactly what they think.
24:20
SPEAKER_00: Um, it's it's not the celebrity trying to get attention, it's it's telling people exactly what they what you think in order to because you know it's like what success is based on.
24:31
SPEAKER_00: You have to you have to be honest in order for the product to come out and and and be successful, right?
24:37
SPEAKER_00: I think that's an interesting uh not contradiction, I forget the word.
24:44
SPEAKER_02: Well imagine this if you're um if you're a studio and you've just made a huge$200 million film, and you've got another$150 million invested in selling the film and releasing the film around the world, and before you know it, you're into a movie for you know hundreds of millions of dollars, and you've got to figure out a way to recoup that.
25:10
SPEAKER_02: Um, and then something like COVID happens, and you you can't, it's really hard.
25:17
SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's a really hard thing to figure out how do I how do I recoup my investment?
25:24
SPEAKER_01: Right?
25:25
SPEAKER_02: So it's a business, it's uh and it's I'm not taking any anything away from the art form because the art form it's not only on the screen, it's behind the scenes.
25:35
SPEAKER_02: The you know, advertising and marketing and um the distribution of a film is an art form.
25:43
SPEAKER_02: It really is.
25:44
SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, I had uh the first hand experience of being associated with paranormal activity, um which was uh an amazing experience.
25:56
SPEAKER_02: And Paramount Pictures, uh Adam Goodman was was head of uh Paramount Pictures, and uh they were gonna do a they were gonna release the movie, but it was gonna be in a very kind of limited way at first.
26:12
SPEAKER_02: And something happened along the way.
26:14
SPEAKER_02: Another movie they were gonna release some for some reason got pushed.
26:18
SPEAKER_02: And um uh and I remember Adam calling and saying, we're gonna release the movie and we gotta figure out how to do it.
26:27
SPEAKER_02: And Paramount, their marketing team, came up with an amazing plan to release a trailer uh online.
26:37
SPEAKER_02: And if you liked it, you pressed a button, and you got there were a certain amount of hits online for this trailer.
26:45
SPEAKER_02: And if you got a certain amount, then it would be released in X amount of theaters, and if it got more, it would be released in more theaters.
26:53
SPEAKER_02: And Paramount did an amazing job on how much how to market this picture.
26:59
SPEAKER_02: And uh eventually it hit like a million hits or some large number, and the movie got a wide release and it became a huge success, and so began the paranormal experience, the paranormal activity franchise.
27:14
SPEAKER_02: Um but it started with um another movie being uh pushed back for release, and this little micro budget movie that cost you know twelve and a half thousand dollars to make, you got a giant studio like Paramount, all of a sudden, all of these marketing people just had to spend all their time focused on this one little picture, and they created a spectacular plan on how to release the film.
27:42
SPEAKER_02: But it came from people believing in the movie: Jason Blum, uh Adam Goodman, there was a whole team of people that were associated with this little micro budget picture that became a huge phenomenon.
27:57
SPEAKER_02: And there are really smart people in marketing and distribution, and to your point, it seems all glamorous, but these people are sweating the, you know, they're sweating it, right?
28:07
SPEAKER_02: They've got if you're putting out a$200 million movie, you know, you've got a lot at stake.
28:12
SPEAKER_02: And even on a$15,000 movie, uh you know,$12,500 or$15,000 movie like Paranormal, there's a lot at stake on that too, because they want to they want to get the message out.
28:23
SPEAKER_02: They want people to go see how good the film is.
28:25
SPEAKER_02: So it it it's all it's all great in success.
28:29
SPEAKER_02: Everybody pats everybody else on the back, and and when it doesn't work, unfortunately, you you look at it and think, what happened?
28:36
SPEAKER_02: You know, what didn't we do?
28:38
SPEAKER_02: And it's so easy to be an armchair quarterback.
28:41
SPEAKER_02: It's so easy, but it's a lot of stress releasing a film.
28:46
SPEAKER_02: If you're a big studio or even if you're uh uh an independent, it's a lot of stress releasing a film because you want to you want the film to be a success.
28:54
SPEAKER_02: Nobody goes into this thinking, you know, it's not gonna work.
28:57
SPEAKER_02: Everybody goes in thinking, you know, what do we have to do to make to make it work?
29:01
SPEAKER_02: But it's a stressful thing to do.
29:03
SPEAKER_00: No, absolutely.
29:04
SPEAKER_00: And it's it seems like there are a lot of steps along the way that it could not be successful, right?
29:11
SPEAKER_00: You already talked about even in the writing stage here beforehand, there's already this, not necessarily graveyard, but this stock of scripts that never met the right person.
29:21
SPEAKER_00: And then, you know, I'm sure between all those steps, there's another place where a movie could have been stopped.
29:27
SPEAKER_00: And it makes sense that people uh you know grind that out and sweat that out because you'd rather it get stopped there than have it fail afterwards and have this huge production um be sitting in the public eye, right?
29:43
SPEAKER_00: Then you know that's your reputation and everything.
29:45
SPEAKER_00: That's crazy though about paranormal activity.
29:47
SPEAKER_00: Could you tell me a bit about how you were involved with that?
29:52
SPEAKER_02: I was sitting in my office um eight o'clock in the morning, and um there was a a mailroom assistant came knocking on my door, and uh I'll think of his name in a second.
30:13
SPEAKER_02: Um, but he came knocking on my door and said, uh, you know, said Mr.
30:18
SPEAKER_02: Spencer, and I said, Well, my name's Martin, and he introduced himself.
30:21
SPEAKER_02: Uh again, I'm drawing a blank on his name, but I will think of it.
30:24
SPEAKER_02: And um he said, I saw this horror movie last night and uh thought it was really good, and he gave me a DVD of the film.
30:32
SPEAKER_02: I said, Okay, I'll check it out.
30:34
SPEAKER_02: And I said, What was it made for?
30:35
SPEAKER_02: And he said, I think it was made for under$15,000.
30:37
SPEAKER_02: And I went, okay.
30:38
SPEAKER_02: So I anyway, I took the DVD, and I came home.
30:41
SPEAKER_02: I did I had a dinner that night and came home about 10 o'clock, and and uh I put the DVD in, and and 20 minutes in, uh I'm freaking out.
30:52
SPEAKER_02: I mean, this movie is so scary, and and it, but it's it's it's the little things, and it would just it really just pulled me in.
31:01
SPEAKER_02: And and I watched the whole movie, and uh I remember going to bed that night, you know, around midnight, and I left all the lights on in the house.
31:09
SPEAKER_02: I was so freaked out.
31:10
SPEAKER_02: Every light on, every light was left on in the house.
31:13
SPEAKER_02: And uh the next morning I said to my assistant, You gotta find this guy, Orin Kelly, because there was no phone number on the DVD.
31:19
SPEAKER_02: There was no that came with it.
31:22
SPEAKER_02: And the and the the kid in the mail room wasn't there that day.
31:26
SPEAKER_02: So I said to my assistant, You find him, find him on Facebook, find him somehow, get in touch with him.
31:31
SPEAKER_02: Anyway, he was in Orin lived in San Diego, and uh and I said I introduced myself.
31:38
SPEAKER_02: I said, My name's Martin Spencer, and I'm an agent at CAA, and uh would love to know if you have an agent.
31:45
SPEAKER_02: And he said, No.
31:45
SPEAKER_02: And I said, Well, you do now.
31:48
SPEAKER_02: Uh you know, I met him a week later, and um and he originally gave me you know a bunch of copies of the film that I called all my friends in uh in acquisitions at all the studios, and I said, you know, you're gonna laugh at me, but this little micro movie is really good.
32:07
SPEAKER_02: And uh they all passed.
32:09
SPEAKER_02: And I said, none of you watched it, none of you watched this movie, you know, you all none of you watched it.
32:14
SPEAKER_02: Anyway, um uh there was uh another agent at CAA called Brian Kavanaugh Jones, and he believed in it too.
32:23
SPEAKER_02: And we reached out to Jason Blum, who saw the movie, who loved it.
32:27
SPEAKER_02: And Jason worked with Aaron, and uh they did some reshoots on the movie, and um we ended up getting it to Adam Goodman, who was working at DreamWorks at the time, and um he loved it, and then Stacey Snyder, who uh was also at DreamWorks, watched the movie, and then they did a screening.
32:51
SPEAKER_02: Long story short, everybody kind of changed positions.
32:54
SPEAKER_02: DreamWorks was bought by Paramount, so the movie traveled with them to Paramount, and um uh and Adam Goodman said, I'm gonna release the movie, I'm gonna release the movie.
33:05
SPEAKER_02: And uh to his credit, as I said before, he created uh, you know, got together with the marketing folks and came up with a with a great plan on how to do it.
33:13
SPEAKER_02: But it was amazing to see something literally at day one and follow how they released this movie.
33:23
SPEAKER_02: And uh and they all did a great job.
33:25
SPEAKER_02: I mean, there's some amazing people involved in that movie from Jason and Adam and Stacy and Brian and everybody pitched in to make sure that uh this little movie was really taken care of, and they all did a great job.
33:39
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
33:40
SPEAKER_00: That's a crazy story.
33:41
SPEAKER_00: And it it actually delineates then your point pretty well of you need to have the right people because there are so many people involved in this chain link between, I mean, even just you know, your assistant seeing the movie, the fact that he knows you or that he's working with you or for you, that connection is is is wild.
34:03
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's you know, kind of like that, it's just fake.
34:06
SPEAKER_02: I I will tell you the one thing that I think is paramount to being a representative, um, and even if you're a producer or or a studio executive, anybody in the business, the one thing that um I think carries through for everybody is being passionate about something that you are representing, something that you're trying to get made, a story that you want to tell.
34:29
SPEAKER_02: And as a representative, as an agent, you you need to be an advocate for your clients.
34:34
SPEAKER_02: You have to be an advocate.
34:36
SPEAKER_02: And you don't have to you don't have to be the loudest person in the room, you just have to be the you know, the figure out a smart way through the minefield of of how to get something done.
34:46
SPEAKER_02: But being an advocate for your clients is the most important thing.
34:50
SPEAKER_02: You have to believe that they are just the most talented, and uh, and that helps.
34:57
SPEAKER_02: And I believed in in Aren and and that little movie.
35:01
SPEAKER_02: And like I said, that's for my first reaction.
35:04
SPEAKER_02: You don't sleep with the lights on in the entire house for a reason.
35:07
SPEAKER_02: So there must be a reason why.
35:09
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, I like what you said.
35:11
SPEAKER_00: And maybe you could elaborate on this a bit, but the little things that made it so scary.
35:18
SPEAKER_02: It's I this is a business of the little things, though.
35:22
SPEAKER_02: You know, everybody sees the big picture, but it's the little things that that get the job done.
35:28
SPEAKER_02: It's um you know, it's everything from if you're if you're in production, it's it's everybody behind the scenes that does their job.
35:38
SPEAKER_02: Whether it's a$15,000 movie or a$150 million movie, it doesn't just happen, it doesn't just happen.
35:45
SPEAKER_02: It's everybody being really good at their jobs.
35:49
SPEAKER_02: And everybody from you know, the people that build the sets to the lighting people to the sound technicians to, you know, everybody thinks it's the it's the actors and it's the director and it's the writer, but it's the people behind the scenes that are really good at figuring out how to get things done.
36:07
SPEAKER_02: That's what makes it all work.
36:08
SPEAKER_02: So it is a business about the little things.
36:11
SPEAKER_02: It really is.
36:12
SPEAKER_02: And um I don't want anyone to walk away from this thinking it's all you know glitz and glamour.
36:19
SPEAKER_02: You've you've got some really, really smart people that never get any fame and nobody knows who they are.
36:26
SPEAKER_02: Their names are on the screen for a reason.
36:28
SPEAKER_02: They're really good at what they do, whether it's you know, somebody doing animation or whether it's somebody, you know, building sets or designing sets or costumes.
36:37
SPEAKER_02: Some really smart people out there doing their jobs.
36:41
SPEAKER_02: And luckily, we're a business of everybody talks to everybody.
36:44
SPEAKER_02: So if you're really good at your job, someone's gonna take notice and tell somebody else, hey, that person was really good.
36:50
SPEAKER_02: So that word of mouth is uh is still the best form of of uh getting people to know who you are in this business.
36:57
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
36:58
SPEAKER_00: And I think that definitely follows a line the line well follows a line along the line of thought of this brutal honesty.
37:06
SPEAKER_00: It's uh in the industry you're gonna be brutally honest about what you don't like, but you're also gonna be very honest about what you do like.
37:14
SPEAKER_00: And you're gonna, like you said, you're gonna be an advocate for it because you want that to succeed, right?
37:19
SPEAKER_00: And that's pretty cool.
37:21
SPEAKER_02: Being an advocate for anything is so important.
37:24
SPEAKER_02: You have to you have to believe in something because it takes a long time to get things done.
37:30
SPEAKER_02: Movies, you know, you don't just write a script and then you're in production a month later.
37:34
SPEAKER_02: It doesn't happen like that.
37:35
SPEAKER_02: It takes years to get something done.
37:39
SPEAKER_02: It just takes years to get things done.
37:41
SPEAKER_02: It takes the right the right director with the right piece of material, the right actor.
37:47
SPEAKER_02: Um, things happen all the time, you know, uncontrollable things, things that you just don't see coming, things just happen.
37:54
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
37:54
SPEAKER_02: And you know, directors are in projects, they're out of projects.
37:59
SPEAKER_02: Um there's a multitude of you know reasons why things don't happen.
38:05
SPEAKER_02: So it takes years.
38:07
SPEAKER_02: So you've got to be committed to what you're doing.
38:10
SPEAKER_02: You have to be an advocate for it.
38:11
SPEAKER_02: And like I said, if everything begins at no.
38:15
SPEAKER_02: You know, everything begins at no.
38:16
SPEAKER_02: So you have to just keep pushing through the no's until you can, you know, get to that place.
38:22
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I like actually the way you when you talked about paranormal activity, um, this is kind of an example of your saying you have to get through the no is your friends at some of these studios, you gave them the DVDs, and then you're like, you didn't watch it, you don't watch it.
38:40
SPEAKER_02: No, no, if they I knew right.
38:42
SPEAKER_02: Or or if they did, they watched 15 minutes of it and turned it off.
38:45
SPEAKER_02: But if you've seen, if you've seen Paranormal, you know that movie builds and builds and builds, and when you get to that final scream at the end, you're on the edge of your seat.
38:56
SPEAKER_02: You know that you know that's a good film.
38:58
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
38:59
SPEAKER_00: No, that's actually the film in my mind that that review pertains to, is you are on the edge of your seat.
39:06
SPEAKER_00: Oh, absolutely.
39:07
SPEAKER_00: Do you have any then?
39:10
SPEAKER_00: Because it sounds like it's such a competitive field or industry.
39:14
SPEAKER_00: Is there is that the minority of projects that you work on?
39:17
SPEAKER_00: Is there a is there a group of them where you have you are an advocate and you put in a lot of work, but they get sent to the to the you know, the back room?
39:29
SPEAKER_02: Um, well, the part about being an advocate means that it does take a long time sometimes to get something going.
39:38
SPEAKER_02: So nothing ever goes to the back room, so to speak.
39:41
SPEAKER_02: Everything, you know, sometimes it takes longer to get something's going.
39:44
SPEAKER_02: Sometimes it happens quickly, sometimes it takes forever.
39:47
SPEAKER_02: Sometimes a writer will write a great spec and you sell it right away, or you find an element right away that wants to uh attach themselves to it.
39:56
SPEAKER_02: Or sometimes you sometimes it just takes a long time to find the right person, and then you've got to go find the right financier, and and the element, you know, you think you have to it takes time, nothing happens overnight.
40:09
SPEAKER_02: Um even um trying to think of what's taken a long time.
40:14
SPEAKER_02: Um there's hundreds of examples of scripts that just take forever to find the right elements.
40:21
SPEAKER_02: But again, it goes to just being an advocate for for those pieces of material and also being in, you know, being in the room with uh or being on a on a phone call with a filmmaker and asking the right questions.
40:34
SPEAKER_02: You know, listening is an art form in the entertainment business.
40:37
SPEAKER_02: Everybody likes to be the one talking.
40:40
SPEAKER_02: Listening is an art form.
40:42
SPEAKER_02: You have to be able to listen to what your clients are saying, you have to listen to what a studio executive is saying, you have to listen to what a director is looking for in a piece of material.
40:55
SPEAKER_02: Um there's a terrific movie on Netflix right now, directed by Spike Lee called Uh Five Bloods.
41:02
SPEAKER_02: And it's written by Danny Bilson and Paul DeMeo, who years ago were clients of mine, um great guys.
41:09
SPEAKER_02: And I read that script I don't know, 15 years ago, maybe.
41:14
SPEAKER_02: Really?
41:15
SPEAKER_02: And um, maybe not 15, but close to it.
41:18
SPEAKER_02: Uh a very different movie.
41:20
SPEAKER_02: And then there's a producer named Lloyd Levin who had an interview with Spike Lee.
41:24
SPEAKER_02: He said Spike Lee was looking for a treasure hunt movie.
41:28
SPEAKER_02: And Lloyd Levin and Bilson and DeMeo, Danny Bilson and Paul DeMeo knew each other, and Lloyd Levin knew of that script and gave it to Spike.
41:36
SPEAKER_02: And Spike read it and said, I love what this is, but I need to figure out how to make it a Spike Lee movie.
41:44
SPEAKER_02: And um and he did, and like 15 years in the history of trying to get a film made, I know that seems like a long time.
41:53
SPEAKER_02: Sometimes it's not, but but you know, it's about being in the right place at the right time, listening to what someone's looking for, or somebody reading an interview with somebody, and you never know when you're gonna come across a great piece of information that's gonna remind you of a script that you read 15 years ago, or something that's gonna make a connection to something else.
42:16
SPEAKER_02: You have to pay attention, you've got to read everything.
42:18
SPEAKER_02: Reading is the most powerful thing in in the entertainment business because whether you read a great script or a great article or a great book or you're listening to a great podcast, hopefully you can connect the dots in some way to something else that's gonna move a project down the line, hopefully to production.
42:39
SPEAKER_02: So you've got to pay attention, you've got to listen, you've got to read everything, and be aware of the world that you're living in because you never know where you where you're gonna be able to make a connection.
42:50
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
42:51
SPEAKER_00: And I think that kind of uh a lot of these things that we've been talking about, or that you've been talking about, I've been listening to, is you know, asking the right questions, being honest, um, know it having the right network.
43:05
SPEAKER_00: It's all kind of about the way you're interacting with the people you you're around and the and the connections that you're making.
43:11
SPEAKER_00: Um, so it's it's clear that it's very important, not just in your career, but kind of to you as a person is putting your best out there in order in order to not necessarily keep your reputation, but to make good connections, to make a solid foundation with other people.
43:30
SPEAKER_02: Right.
43:31
SPEAKER_02: It it's it's it's you know, you have to you have to understand what the other what what the person that you the person that you're talking to on the phone or on a Zoom call, they have a job to do as well, right?
43:44
SPEAKER_02: And you have to listen to what their needs are.
43:49
SPEAKER_02: You can't just be in in you know go mode all the time.
43:53
SPEAKER_02: I mean, as an agent, you are always in go mode.
43:55
SPEAKER_02: You just got to keep you know pushing through and pushing through and pushing through.
43:59
unknown: But you
44:00
SPEAKER_02: Have to listen to what your buyers are looking for.
44:03
SPEAKER_02: Listen to what their needs are.
44:05
SPEAKER_02: If they need a rewrite on a script, you can't just sell the same thing every day.
44:11
SPEAKER_02: You've got to try and find new things to talk about.
44:14
SPEAKER_02: It keeps you current.
44:15
SPEAKER_02: So, and that's an important part of the business too.
44:18
SPEAKER_02: You have to listen and be aware of the trends that are out there, and hopefully you're ahead of the trends at all times.
44:24
SPEAKER_02: So you're always creating or being a part of new content that is going to feel contemporary and different and things like that.
44:31
SPEAKER_02: But listening to what the other person is saying, if there's a producer that needs a piece of material for a director they're working with, or a studio executive uh needs a rewrite on a script, and uh you you know they're looking for a certain kind of writer, you have to really listen and ask questions.
44:52
SPEAKER_02: Always ask questions, always always want to know more, always be inquisitive, always uh you know, you're you have to be searching for something every day because there's so much information out there and it comes at you so fast, you have to be able to delineate what's good information and what's bad information, and and hopefully you can tell the difference, or hopefully you've got enough resources to figure it out.
45:16
SPEAKER_02: But you gotta, you know, listening is so important in what we do.
45:21
SPEAKER_02: Um, because you never know a great you you've got to be able to know when a good piece of information is sitting right in front of you.
45:28
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
45:29
SPEAKER_00: I guess I would I would wonder then in this context of the movie business, or in uh for you for scripts or or the writers, then maybe what are some methods you use or tactics you use for knowing what you're what what's in front of you is the right information, the good information?
45:46
SPEAKER_00: Maybe the right questions to ask.
45:48
SPEAKER_02: Definitely asking the right question and definitely um, you know, again, knowing knowing who you're talking to, um, knowing things about the projects that they're working on, knowing who they're working with, you know, how can I help you?
46:05
SPEAKER_02: You know, what you know, as an agent you're calling trying to sell a writer or a director or an actor or you know, somebody into something else.
46:16
SPEAKER_02: You have to ask them, you know, how can I help you today?
46:20
SPEAKER_02: What you know, anything specific you're looking for?
46:22
SPEAKER_02: Is there something uh that is keeping you up at night?
46:26
SPEAKER_02: You know, what's what's on your mind?
46:28
SPEAKER_02: You know, helping them, you know, sometimes you've got to make the phone call and just say, um uh, you know, I know you're looking for for this person, you know, are you aware of uh of this writer or or this director?
46:42
SPEAKER_02: Helping them.
46:43
SPEAKER_02: You know, it's important that the people that you're talking to every day know that you're trying to help them.
46:48
SPEAKER_02: Um can't just be focused on what do I need to, you know, what do I need?
46:55
SPEAKER_02: You have to you have to say, what you know, what do you what do you need?
46:58
SPEAKER_02: How can I help you?
46:59
SPEAKER_02: How can I make your day a little better?
47:01
SPEAKER_02: Um I think most of the relationships that you have.
47:04
SPEAKER_02: It comes with with time, it comes with experience, it comes with having the person on the other end know that you actually care about them and that you're trying to help them.
47:13
SPEAKER_02: It's you've got to be compassionate as well as as well as aggressive in the same conversation.
47:18
SPEAKER_02: You have to understand that sometimes people just want to call up and bitch about something.
47:24
SPEAKER_02: And and you know what, you just want to listen.
47:26
SPEAKER_02: You want to know that the you want them to know that you're there for them.
47:29
SPEAKER_02: And it's not about passing judgment, it's about trying to help someone.
47:33
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
47:35
SPEAKER_00: Um, and I I like the way you put that, which is you have to be compassionate and aggressive at the same time.
47:40
SPEAKER_00: Because from this conversation, that kind of sounds like what the entertainment industry is.
47:46
SPEAKER_00: It is incredibly important to have a strong set of connections and network, and that's kind of the compassionate side.
47:56
SPEAKER_00: But on the other side, you have to be brutally honest and you have to be aggressive because it's super competitive, and there are so many people in it uh trying to be successful.
48:05
SPEAKER_00: Um, it's a it's a hard combination of character traits to kind of put into even just one conversation, right?
48:13
SPEAKER_02: It's very competitive.
48:15
SPEAKER_02: Um, but the entertainment business is is good for a lot of things that aren't just related to the business.
48:22
SPEAKER_02: I mean, there's a lot of very um well-spoken uh people who talk out about you know all kinds of issues.
48:33
SPEAKER_02: And you know, sometimes people put their celebrity on online.
48:38
SPEAKER_02: You know, they want to go out there and and talk about a lot of things, and that can be a good thing too.
48:44
SPEAKER_02: It brings awareness to all kinds of issues, and you know, when it's done the right way, I think it's hugely impactful.
48:54
SPEAKER_02: Um to a worldwide audience.
48:57
SPEAKER_02: I mean, you know, entertainment, you know, actors or athletes, or you know, depending on who you are, you could be, you know, somebody working at home.
49:09
SPEAKER_02: You could create some video and post it online, and before you know it, it's it can be seen by 50 million people.
49:16
SPEAKER_02: I mean, you know, the access that we all have right now to information is unlike anything we've ever seen before.
49:24
SPEAKER_02: So when you're making a film, whether you're making a comedy or a love story or a sign or a you know a Star Wars film, you want to do it the right way and you want to, you know, do it, you want to make it the right way and say the right things and give the audience that that feeling of seeing something special every time.
49:43
SPEAKER_02: There's no better feeling.
49:44
SPEAKER_02: I miss going to the movies so much.
49:47
SPEAKER_02: I, you know, COVID is a obviously it's a terrible thing, but I miss going to the movies more than anything because I love the experience of you know getting my pop going and drink and finding my seat and sitting down and watching five or six great trailers of films that I didn't know anything about, and then watching a film.
50:07
SPEAKER_02: I think that is no better experience than going to the movies.
50:11
SPEAKER_02: I love Netflix and Amazon and Hulu and Disney Plus, they're some great stuff.
50:17
SPEAKER_02: Um, but I miss going to the movies because that's seeing something on a giant screen is just to me, it's what it's all about.
50:26
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I I do love the way that you connect kind of the full scope of what we're talking about because the entertainment industry isn't just the kind of the people grinding it out and competing, but it's really about the end product and how you connect not just with your network but through Hollywood to the world.
50:47
SPEAKER_00: I mean, you are in it it's a good point too, is you have to do it the right way because you really are connecting with potentially the entire world, depending on how big your film is.
50:58
SPEAKER_02: You are.
51:00
SPEAKER_02: I mean, you know, the it's it's a shared experience.
51:04
SPEAKER_02: And going to the movies when it's you know one those hugely successful films, you see it's big here at home, or it's big in Europe, or Australia, or you know, wherever, wherever it's playing, you know, and but there is a shared experience.
51:20
SPEAKER_02: And everybody has it, everybody takes something away, every the everybody takes something different away from the film.
51:28
SPEAKER_02: But they've all gone to go, they've all gone to see it.
51:31
SPEAKER_02: And uh and it's so much fun.
51:35
SPEAKER_02: You know, if you have something associated with with a movie, to stand around in the lobby afterwards and listen to what everybody says about the movie as they're walking out, yeah, a lot of fun.
51:44
SPEAKER_00: Oh, I believe that.
51:46
SPEAKER_00: No, and and and I think that's kind of a good place to wrap up with my final question because I do love that we kind of covered the start, like as you talk about with paranormal activity, really an experience where it came from the start.
51:59
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I guess they filmed it beforehand, but the start of it getting brought out through the possibility of film in the film industry and entertainment of connecting the world and kind of purveying a message and then putting people in that industry on a pedestal to give their message and hopefully they do it the right way as well.
52:18
SPEAKER_00: And my last question is just kind of over the with this discussion in mind, do you think there's one thing or a couple things that it that stick in your mind that you think that the listener could take from this discussion?
52:31
SPEAKER_02: Uh be prepared to ride the roller coaster uh of whatever it is that you're gonna do, because there are amazing highs and there are painful lows.
52:41
SPEAKER_02: When when everything is successful, that's great.
52:44
SPEAKER_02: And when it doesn't work, you you know, you feel it the way that other people feel it.
52:49
SPEAKER_02: I mean, you you you live and die with uh with your clients and you live and die with with the studios and what they're going through, and you want it always to be successful, and sometimes it is and sometimes it isn't.
53:02
SPEAKER_02: But be prepared, have a you know, don't be afraid to ask the question, don't be afraid to reach out to somebody who's working that you love, don't be afraid to have an opinion, um, and be prepared to hear the word no a lot.
53:18
SPEAKER_02: And as I said, you know, many times in the in this uh in this conversation, you've got to figure out a way to push through the no's and turn them into yeses.
53:27
SPEAKER_02: And if you're prepared to do it, then go, then go for it.
53:32
SPEAKER_02: It's a great life.
53:33
SPEAKER_02: It's not a job, it really is a life.
53:37
SPEAKER_02: And uh and push through those no's and don't be afraid to ask the question and most importantly, listen to what everybody else is talking about and come up with your own opinions and be an advocate.
53:48
SPEAKER_02: That's awesome, man.
53:49
SPEAKER_00: Turn the nose into asses.
53:50
SPEAKER_02: I love that.
53:52
SPEAKER_02: Thank you, dude.
54:05
SPEAKER_00: I want to thank Martin for coming on the podcast.
54:08
SPEAKER_00: I think the story of finding paranormal activity as an agent and realizing how good it is, advocating for it, and then seeing it wind up in theaters around the world is exhilarating.
54:18
SPEAKER_00: I mean it's crazy to think that the work you do in that industry, if it's done well, can go out and be seen by the entire world.
54:25
SPEAKER_00: Regardless of if it's there to make you learn, cry, or just scare the shit out of you.
54:29
SPEAKER_00: Well played, Martin.
54:31
SPEAKER_00: Likewise, the perseverance needed in Hollywood is pretty wild, and he sums up the attitude well in that last statement.
54:37
SPEAKER_00: You have to go in with the mentality that you will turn any no into a yes.
54:42
SPEAKER_00: But what I enjoyed most from this conversation, however, is his perspective on honesty and connection.
54:48
SPEAKER_00: You don't tell the writer that his work was great if it wasn't, because that's lying, and no one will be better for it.
54:54
SPEAKER_00: As Emerson says, the truth is handsomer than the affection of love.
54:58
SPEAKER_00: Your goodness must have some edge to it.
55:00
SPEAKER_00: Being honest builds trust and respect.
55:03
SPEAKER_00: If someone is willing to tell me that my work won't cut it, if I can swallow my ego, they're helping me.
55:09
SPEAKER_00: Yet on the other side, you also don't need to be a dick about it, because then you're gonna lose that relationship or worsen your image in their eyes.
55:17
SPEAKER_00: And while it's maybe painfully clear how important those relationships are in Hollywood from Martin's stories, it's just as important in our everyday lives.
55:25
SPEAKER_00: It makes me wonder if there are people who I have not told the entire truth to.
55:29
SPEAKER_00: Whether it was to make them feel good, or to gain their affection for my own pride and want, and how that relationship and myself would be better served if I was honest instead.
55:40
SPEAKER_00: And maybe it makes you think of similar situations with people in your life.
55:44
SPEAKER_00: Thanks for listening.
55:49
SPEAKER_00: If you like this episode of Seeking Authenticity, that's freaking awesome.
55:53
SPEAKER_00: But all I want to ask of you, the listener, in return for the time and effort I put into making it, is that you take a deep breath.
56:01
SPEAKER_00: I mean really breathe.
56:03
SPEAKER_00: Breathe so that it stretches out your shoulders and your back and your chest and pushes out your stomach.
56:08
SPEAKER_00: No more of these shallow, bullshit breaths.
56:10
SPEAKER_00: They're barely keeping you alive, my friend.
56:13
SPEAKER_00: And after you exhale, go out and soak up today.
56:17
SPEAKER_00: Because in the end, your actions and the way they interact with the world and the people around you right now are all you have in this life.
56:25
SPEAKER_00: So be authentic with them.
56:27
SPEAKER_00: Peace.