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Pondering Detroit Tigers Starting Rotation · Tiger Territory: A Detroit Tigers Podcast

0:05
Speaker 1: And welcome into another episode of Tiger Territory, part of
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Speaker 1: the Battle Territory Network, the ever expanding Bawl Territory Network,
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Speaker 1: a Detroit Tiger's podcast. I'm Kieren Steckley with me as
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Speaker 1: always as a man who every time he steps to
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Speaker 1: the plate it is a golden net bat. He is
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Speaker 1: Cody Stevenaggan.
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Speaker 2: How you doing doing good? We never really got into
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Speaker 2: the golden net bat thing. Dickly just the dumbest worst
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Speaker 2: idea I have ever heard. I'm genuinely pretty open minded
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Speaker 2: rule changes that. I think almost everyone agrees that's ridiculous,
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Speaker 2: and I don't think it'll happen. So maybe it's just
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Speaker 2: like great fodder for discussion, but probably we're not going
0:42
Speaker 2: to devote a lot more time to it because I
0:43
Speaker 2: don't have anything else to say other than just an awful,
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Speaker 2: awful idea.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll just add that again. I try to be
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Speaker 1: like a pretty open minded person. I think a lot
0:53
Speaker 1: of people, like when the three point line, you know,
0:56
Speaker 1: came out in basketball or hell, the DH probably a
0:59
Speaker 1: lot of people thought it was kind of hokey and
1:01
Speaker 1: ruin the game. And it's like, now that seems silly.
1:06
Speaker 1: It's hard for me to imagine that the Golden Net
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Speaker 1: bat ever, not seeming silly and hokey and completely unnecessary.
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Speaker 1: So in agreeance with you there, Cody, it was probably
1:18
Speaker 1: like put out there by someone who didn't like it
1:20
Speaker 1: to get people to just dump all over it and
1:24
Speaker 1: then we can just kind of move on with our
1:26
Speaker 1: with our merry lives here. Uh So, so speaking of
1:32
Speaker 1: moving on or not moving on, depending on how you
1:36
Speaker 1: define the phrase, were we got an Alex Cobb talking point, Cody,
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Speaker 1: And I don't know if he's got a nickname on
1:44
Speaker 1: Baseball reference, but in my mind, I'm just gonna call
1:47
Speaker 1: him the Prius because we are getting a lot of
1:50
Speaker 1: mileage out of this, uh out of this signing. So
1:54
Speaker 1: shout out to Alex Cobb, a kay, the Prius because
1:57
Speaker 1: we got we got something else to to.
1:59
Speaker 2: The arm priest is supposed to like not need repairs
2:03
Speaker 2: and like it's supposed to be a very reliable vehicle.
2:05
Speaker 2: You know, get a lot of mileage out of them.
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Speaker 1: Well, at least from the topic wise, I'm getting a
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Speaker 1: lot of a lot of mileage out of Alex Cob here.
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Speaker 1: So so you know, more quotes from Cob has kind
2:18
Speaker 1: of come out into the ether if you would. And
2:21
Speaker 1: one of them particularly stood out, and look, I don't
2:25
Speaker 1: want to make this anything personal with Alex. I love
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Speaker 1: it when guys are honest, and he was honest when
2:32
Speaker 1: he was talking about how like, you know, like I was,
2:36
Speaker 1: I kind of thought I was done. You know, he's
2:38
Speaker 1: thirty six, thirty seven years old or whatever, and you know,
2:41
Speaker 1: had a couple of year years of injuries. And he said,
2:44
Speaker 1: I'm going to pretty close to direct quote here, because well,
2:47
Speaker 1: correct me if I'm wrong anywhere. Like, he was surprised
2:49
Speaker 1: by the amount of interest, and then you know, he
2:52
Speaker 1: ends up inking a deal with the Tigers fifteen million.
2:55
Speaker 1: Everybody knows this. Fifteen million. Then Instent is for an
2:57
Speaker 1: additional up to two million for one.
2:59
Speaker 3: Year, and.
3:03
Speaker 1: It's not the most reassuring thing you've ever heard if
3:10
Speaker 1: you're a Tigers fan. Where it's like a guy would
3:12
Speaker 1: you know, they say, if you're thinking about retirement, you're retired.
3:16
Speaker 1: And then he gets thrown a decent bag and he's like, well,
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Speaker 1: you know, shoulder feels all right, I guess elbow feels
3:24
Speaker 1: all right. For fifteen up to seventeen million dollars, I'll
3:27
Speaker 1: give this another go, this could be absolutely nothing but it.
3:32
Speaker 1: But here we are in mid December and there's not
3:36
Speaker 1: that much else to talk about. It's also like it's
3:39
Speaker 1: one of those things that if if he just has
3:42
Speaker 1: like a like a Zooerman type of season or something,
3:45
Speaker 1: we would look back and be we would look back
3:47
Speaker 1: and be like, Eh, there were signs sort of the
3:50
Speaker 1: same thing with Monty Williams when the Pistons. Pistons hired
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Speaker 1: him to that big contract, and it's like, I'm not
3:56
Speaker 1: really sure. I like the attitude of being like, yeah,
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Speaker 1: I came out of retired for this like insane amount
4:01
Speaker 1: of money. Like it just doesn't The season's too long.
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Speaker 1: There's too much at stake that, you know, for that
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Speaker 1: thing to just kind of like be out there and
4:11
Speaker 1: us not to talk about it. So not a direct
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Speaker 1: indictment of mister Cobb, but just something that I think
4:19
Speaker 1: at least has made some Tigers fans a little uneasy,
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Speaker 1: especially when that's your only move so far.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't really think it's fair at all to
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Speaker 2: the spirit of what Cob said to equate it to
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Speaker 2: like Manny Williams, which was kind of its own disaster.
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Speaker 2: Like I think Cobb wanted to play. I just don't
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Speaker 2: think he thought anyone would want him. So again, maybe
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Speaker 2: that's not a bringing endorsement of this signing, but seems
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Speaker 2: like a guy who's fired up, who really wanted to play.
4:45
Speaker 2: He said, I didn't want to end my career. It
4:48
Speaker 2: would have been a bitter taste in my mouth to
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Speaker 2: end it like last year, only pitched sixteen and third
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Speaker 2: innings injury after injury, Like he wants to be able
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Speaker 2: to go out on his own terms a little bit.
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Speaker 2: That's something I think he made loud and clear. He's
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Speaker 2: talked about the preventative rehab, he's doing, all the work
5:03
Speaker 2: he's doing to try to be a little bit healthier.
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Speaker 3: Like very much, I got.
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Speaker 2: The impression of someone who wants to pitch and wants
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Speaker 2: to write a little bit of a better ending to
5:11
Speaker 2: the story of his career.
5:13
Speaker 3: Now.
5:13
Speaker 2: On kind of a separate note from that, though, every
5:16
Speaker 2: time I write a little more about Alex cop or
5:19
Speaker 2: do a little bit of a deeper dive about Alex coh,
5:21
Speaker 2: have I do learn about another injury that I didn't
5:24
Speaker 2: realize he had before. Okay, Like I knew he had
5:26
Speaker 2: this injury real to career and there's just always like
5:29
Speaker 2: Skuy when he was a rookie, had a procedure where
5:31
Speaker 2: they had to saw off his top rib to like
5:34
Speaker 2: fix something up in his shoulder.
5:36
Speaker 3: They gave him the rib and a jar. He gave
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Speaker 3: it to his dad, like, what are we doing here?
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Speaker 2: You know he's at turf Phill. He's had two neat
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Speaker 2: procedures that I didn't know about. It's tough to even like,
5:46
Speaker 2: I don't know if they were in high school or what.
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Speaker 2: So I get designing a hard bee. I'm not in
5:52
Speaker 2: sins or impassionate about it one way or another. I
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Speaker 2: think if he's able to be relatively healthy, he will
5:57
Speaker 2: be fine. And you could argue maybe that's just what
6:00
Speaker 2: the Tigers need someone to be okay at the back
6:03
Speaker 2: end of their rotation. But I do almost every time
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Speaker 2: I read or write or research a little more, and
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Speaker 2: I'm tempted to downgrade from that be because I know
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Speaker 2: he threw, you know, one hundred and fifty issh Innings
6:15
Speaker 2: for a couple of Giants teams.
6:16
Speaker 3: Scott Harrison was a part of one of those teams.
6:18
Speaker 3: But Man seems like a very breakable pitcher, and that
6:24
Speaker 3: is a little bit scary, especially when they were you know,
6:28
Speaker 3: we'll see how the market full shakes out, but there
6:31
Speaker 3: were other guys still available. Maybe it's you know, was
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Speaker 3: he just the guy most willing to take a one
6:37
Speaker 3: year deal because he wasn't sure if there was going
6:39
Speaker 3: to be a lot of other interest you know, I
6:40
Speaker 3: think the more I think about it, that's kind of
6:43
Speaker 3: where I land on it. But in terms from I
6:46
Speaker 3: do want to be clear like a personal standpoint and
6:48
Speaker 3: an investment standpoint in what's going on.
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Speaker 2: I think I think fans should like Alex Cobb. I
6:54
Speaker 2: think he's going to be really determined to do the
6:56
Speaker 2: opposite of what I was just talking about and hopefully
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Speaker 2: not break this season.
7:01
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean he's he has every reason to be motivated.
7:06
Speaker 1: I want to make that clear, and that there's been
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Speaker 1: no indications otherwise. It's just like that. That's also kind
7:12
Speaker 1: of just like a modern internet thing where he kind
7:15
Speaker 1: of clinches up here and and and and then we
7:17
Speaker 1: have to talk about to like you just did provide
7:20
Speaker 1: more context. Uh, it's just if he was the fourth
7:27
Speaker 1: most noteworthy signing or or acquisition, I'm just signing we
7:32
Speaker 1: probably wouldn't have to spend this much time, but how
7:35
Speaker 1: much time of Alex Cobb in our minds, right, But
7:38
Speaker 1: like because that's the would become like the second or
7:43
Speaker 1: third highest paid guy on the payroll or whatever with
7:46
Speaker 1: that contract. It's like it's just one of those things
7:48
Speaker 1: where you kind of like things to mesh a little
7:52
Speaker 1: bit better. But there is absolutely a role for a
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Speaker 1: healthy Alex Cobb, and you would have to put you
7:59
Speaker 1: I mean, the Tigers athletic training staff just got recognized
8:03
Speaker 1: by by a governing body for their field with like
8:06
Speaker 1: the work that they do. So like that, you would
8:09
Speaker 1: have to say, with that combined with better with aj Hinch,
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Speaker 1: you know, seeing everything when it comes to the game
8:15
Speaker 1: of baseball, like you would have to imagine, this is
8:17
Speaker 1: about as good as scenario for someone in that situation
8:20
Speaker 1: to be in. He also slots into a needed role,
8:24
Speaker 1: which brings us to our next topic. So I want
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Speaker 1: you to guess, Cody now, to be fair here, this
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Speaker 1: includes openers. So do you have any idea of at
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Speaker 1: the top of your head, how many people started was
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Speaker 1: a starting pitcher started a game for the Tigers last season?
8:48
Speaker 2: I did at one point, and I think I you know,
8:51
Speaker 2: blocked it out of my mind.
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Speaker 1: Eighteen, you're a little bit over. It's fourteen.
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Speaker 2: It's fourteen in one year, just when everyone was hurt.
9:01
Speaker 1: Yeah, a couple of years ago.
9:04
Speaker 3: Though.
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Speaker 1: So that's with three guys that made one quote unquote
9:09
Speaker 1: start like Madden, Engler and Herder. And then obviously you
9:12
Speaker 1: have a Holton who came in a healthy eighth with
9:16
Speaker 1: with with nine starts. There more double digit guys starting
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Speaker 1: than you actually you would think given how we think
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Speaker 1: about the twenty twenty fourteen. But all that to say
9:25
Speaker 1: that you have school bol who's school Well, you have Olsen,
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Speaker 1: who I think is going to be looked at as
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Speaker 1: a prime bounce back candidate for the twenty twenty five Tigers.
9:39
Speaker 1: And then you know after that, there's either like guys
9:44
Speaker 1: you're hanging on hope to guys you're giving up on
9:48
Speaker 1: you know, you're running the mill pitchers that you just
9:52
Speaker 1: kind of have in your organization that you know that
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Speaker 1: you that you need starts from, or guys that aren't
9:57
Speaker 1: even here anymore, like Jack Flerty, Oh, I guess technically
9:59
Speaker 1: he could come back. That could be a thing that happens,
10:02
Speaker 1: or somebody you have no confidence in, like my Ada.
10:05
Speaker 1: So like I think as much as we call and
10:09
Speaker 1: I'll do my dan hasty thing. The superpower of the Tigers.
10:15
Speaker 1: It's actually kind of murky when you when you look
10:18
Speaker 1: at like who's available, who's on the roster, and so
10:22
Speaker 1: I I kind of and I didn't even mention Jackson,
10:25
Speaker 1: Joe like, I kind of want to see where we're
10:28
Speaker 1: at right now. It's December eighteenth on what we kind
10:31
Speaker 1: of picture as as the Tigers opening day rotation, which
10:36
Speaker 1: from three on, I guess you could say from four on,
10:38
Speaker 1: because CoP's gonna be at least, you know, in there
10:40
Speaker 1: from you know, so you got two spots there with
10:45
Speaker 1: Myz Manning may Ada. What are they gonna do there? Montero?
10:50
Speaker 1: You know, is there anything to tie Madden? You know
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Speaker 1: what I mean? Like there's there's a lot, there's a
10:57
Speaker 1: lot of possibilities here and the way we look at
11:01
Speaker 1: spring training in the past, Joe like, I'm not sure
11:06
Speaker 1: when we're gonna get like an actual real picture. So
11:10
Speaker 1: where do you think right now?
11:11
Speaker 2: You know, for all to talk about being murky and
11:14
Speaker 2: like all the competition and all the names, the more
11:16
Speaker 2: I think about it, I'm not sure there's actually that
11:19
Speaker 2: much up for debate. I think they're going to be
11:22
Speaker 2: a lot of guys in spring trying to pitch themselves
11:24
Speaker 2: onto the roster or into the rotation. But they're gonna
11:30
Speaker 2: have to replace somebody or maybe need an injury to
11:33
Speaker 2: get there because your as you're open. They may starter
11:35
Speaker 2: Trek Skuble, Lock Rees Sulson. This guy was really good
11:39
Speaker 2: for the first half, had an injury, wasn't quite that
11:42
Speaker 2: guy Resultsan's a lock, Alex Cobby, you're paying him fifteen million,
11:45
Speaker 2: He's a lock.
11:46
Speaker 3: That's three starters.
11:48
Speaker 2: The Tigers are gonna, I'm sure, keep their pitching chaos
11:51
Speaker 2: principles in their back pocket, but it sounds like they
11:53
Speaker 2: want to at least begin the season with more of
11:55
Speaker 2: a traditional five. I'm gonna say five ish Man set up,
12:00
Speaker 2: so number four, I don't know, you're painkin to Mayeta.
12:05
Speaker 2: It's a million.
12:06
Speaker 3: Dollars like like it or not.
12:08
Speaker 2: I think this guy is going to be getting every
12:10
Speaker 2: opportunity to be in the starting rotation. Now I will
12:13
Speaker 2: be a little bit curious. Is there a world like
12:15
Speaker 2: the Tigers will seem to love them some brilliant Hurder.
12:19
Speaker 2: I think the question comes down to how is Herder
12:21
Speaker 2: best used? Is he Tyler Holton light. Is he a
12:24
Speaker 2: traditional starter. I wonder if there's a world where I say,
12:28
Speaker 2: five ish Miata and Herder can almost serve as.
12:34
Speaker 3: Kind of not not a piggyback.
12:37
Speaker 2: Thing because we know, like the Tigers aren't going to
12:39
Speaker 2: want to limit their bullpen in that way, but kind
12:41
Speaker 2: of like depending on the lineup, if it's right handed heavy,
12:44
Speaker 2: Maeta could start, If it's left handed heavy, Herder could start,
12:47
Speaker 2: and a little bit of the pitching chaos principles could apply.
12:52
Speaker 2: I think that's a realistic possibility. So then we're down
12:55
Speaker 2: to spot number five, and I think that's all about
12:57
Speaker 2: and may or may not be in this exact order.
12:59
Speaker 2: But talking about the the open spot, does it belong
13:02
Speaker 2: to Jackson joke? My understanding I've said I think Job
13:05
Speaker 2: should be on the opening day roster. My understanding is
13:08
Speaker 2: the Tigers actually feel the same way. That was somewhat
13:11
Speaker 2: to my surprise, but that seemed to kind of be
13:14
Speaker 2: the vibe at winter meetings.
13:17
Speaker 3: It's not going to be just completely handed to him.
13:19
Speaker 2: But if Jackson Job is alive and is able to
13:23
Speaker 2: throw strikes as anything close to what we think he
13:25
Speaker 2: can be, I believe he's going to be on the
13:27
Speaker 2: opening day roster, So that leaves guys like Casey Mize.
13:32
Speaker 3: Matt Manning, Ty Madden.
13:34
Speaker 2: I don't think Sawyer gips Along will be healthy until
13:37
Speaker 2: a little bit into the season, So really those I mean,
13:40
Speaker 2: I think it creates very interesting and difficult discussions for
13:43
Speaker 2: the likes of.
13:44
Speaker 3: Mies and Madden.
13:45
Speaker 2: As much as Mys, I think especially Kid have a
13:49
Speaker 2: very good case to be in that rotation. It's hard
13:52
Speaker 2: to find a spot for him if you're operating with
13:56
Speaker 2: that thinking. So then what do you do Bullpen Toledo rotates.
14:00
Speaker 2: I'm sure we'll talk a lot about that in the spring,
14:03
Speaker 2: but I think Scooball Olton, Cobb Job, my Aida slash Gunther,
14:07
Speaker 2: I think entering spring, those guys are kind of the
14:11
Speaker 2: clear favorites, you.
14:14
Speaker 1: Know, I just don't. I can't say that I'm enthused
14:18
Speaker 1: about my Ata being anywhere near the term favorite, And
14:25
Speaker 1: I like what you laid out there is not incorrect,
14:29
Speaker 1: like at all. However, at the same time, like if
14:33
Speaker 1: I'm Casey and I'm like, look like I have a
14:38
Speaker 1: steam as well as Maida. Now Mayada is just the
14:41
Speaker 1: pure contract and he obviously has a longer track record,
14:43
Speaker 1: But like I was a number one overall pick like
14:45
Speaker 1: I've shown like I've thrown flashes before I got hurt.
14:49
Speaker 1: Blah blah blah, Like why why is he getting priority
14:53
Speaker 1: over me if I'm clearly out pitching him? And so
14:56
Speaker 1: we talk about competition and we talk about old these
15:00
Speaker 1: like everybody earns a spot or whatever. But I'm sorry
15:03
Speaker 1: like making Mayda quote unquote a favorite and just to
15:07
Speaker 1: use your word there, but we all understood what you
15:09
Speaker 1: meant by that, like does not scream competition. And there's
15:13
Speaker 1: going to be like nothing that Mayda could do short
15:15
Speaker 1: of like a three start stretch in April, which he's
15:20
Speaker 1: always notoriously a slow starter. Like that's gonna that's gonna
15:24
Speaker 1: rub people the wrong way, even if no one is
15:26
Speaker 1: actually going to bang the table for Casey Miz, you
15:29
Speaker 1: see what I'm saying.
15:30
Speaker 2: Yeah, And so I think if you're Casey Miz, you
15:33
Speaker 2: have to have the type of spring I know, like
15:35
Speaker 2: you did last spring. Actually that makes people bang the table.
15:38
Speaker 2: Maybe if Miz is great, where any of these other
15:41
Speaker 2: guys are great, Matt Manning, there's a world in which
15:45
Speaker 2: people could bang the table for them. And if Maida
15:48
Speaker 2: is just awful, maybe the Tigers are like, Okay, I mean,
15:52
Speaker 2: we just can't do this. We're trying, in aj Inch's words,
15:55
Speaker 2: we're trying to win the division, and so you immediately
15:59
Speaker 2: stash Myda to the role he finished last season in.
16:01
Speaker 2: I don't think they want to do that. They're paying
16:03
Speaker 2: this guy and they want to get something out of them.
16:05
Speaker 2: But if that's a like, that's why there is some
16:08
Speaker 2: wiggle room. I think it's honestly more dependent on Kintamaeta
16:11
Speaker 2: looking unusable than any of these other guys looking good.
16:16
Speaker 3: That is one thing that could open a spot.
16:20
Speaker 1: Remind everybody that Mayda had a six point zero ninety
16:23
Speaker 1: R last year and was negative one point seven war.
16:27
Speaker 2: So, like, it's not bad, it's terrible. I'm not excited.
16:30
Speaker 2: I'm not excited about it. This is the business, this
16:33
Speaker 2: is the reality. At least to another question, though, Like,
16:37
Speaker 2: should the Sigers just signed another picture for as good
16:39
Speaker 2: as they are at their pitching mastery, for as much
16:42
Speaker 2: as I think they can get more out of Hurd
16:44
Speaker 2: or maybe even mys for as much as I think
16:46
Speaker 2: they could Optimizatic's cop Like, there's still some dudes out
16:49
Speaker 2: there in the market. Fan favorite Walker Wheeler are still
16:52
Speaker 2: out there in the market. Another the more I think
16:55
Speaker 2: about Roki Sasaki, but she's not coming to Detroit. Like
17:02
Speaker 2: it's kind of funny. We've even entertained that as much
17:05
Speaker 2: as we have, but they can still add someone if
17:07
Speaker 2: you and just confine Kensmis with the Wulfen, maybe that's
17:11
Speaker 2: the more common sense thing to do, but I don't
17:14
Speaker 2: think it will happen like that.
17:17
Speaker 1: Well, speaking of common sense, you're and just bring it
17:21
Speaker 1: back here, because we've been talking a lot about a
17:23
Speaker 1: lot of things. You're pretty firm on that Jackson Joe
17:26
Speaker 1: opening day talking point that you just laid out there,
17:30
Speaker 1: because I think I speak for a lot of people
17:33
Speaker 1: where we're kind of bracing for the We just want
17:37
Speaker 1: to ramp them up in Toledo real quick, get them
17:39
Speaker 1: a little bit more time to work on his and
17:42
Speaker 1: then we throw out the buzz words like work on
17:43
Speaker 1: his secondary pitches, work. You know, we just don't want
17:48
Speaker 1: to we don't want to, you know, over extend him
17:51
Speaker 1: like right away. Like we've seen this script before, just
17:54
Speaker 1: in general, not directly the indictment of the Tigers, but
17:57
Speaker 1: just like and we've seen this script over and over
17:59
Speaker 1: in baseball, and I have said that it would make
18:03
Speaker 1: no sense to put him on your playoff roster like
18:05
Speaker 1: they did last year, and then to send him down
18:07
Speaker 1: the Toledo to start the year when clearly he is
18:11
Speaker 1: one of your best pictures and your number two, you
18:14
Speaker 1: could argue, the number one, most quote unquote pure talented
18:17
Speaker 1: picture that you have in your organization. So like so
18:21
Speaker 1: in Scott Harris optionality, like you know all these things,
18:27
Speaker 1: it screams it could happen, but you seem very firm
18:31
Speaker 1: on that based on what like you're reporting and conversations.
18:35
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's my understanding with where the team is
18:37
Speaker 2: right now. I think you don't totally shut that door.
18:41
Speaker 2: Speaking in absolutes in baseball is probably one of the
18:43
Speaker 2: most dangerous things you can do. And I've done that
18:45
Speaker 2: before and been wrong before. Right now, I think the
18:48
Speaker 2: Tigers really want Jackson job to be on the opening
18:50
Speaker 2: day roster.
18:52
Speaker 3: It's still I can.
18:53
Speaker 2: Hear those words coming out of Scott Harris's mouth, though,
18:57
Speaker 2: like we believe, if Jackson throws a greater volume of
19:01
Speaker 2: innings in Triple A and is able to harness his
19:03
Speaker 2: ability to command the strike zone with all of his
19:06
Speaker 2: pitches and utilize different shapes like I I can hear
19:11
Speaker 2: that in my head, so I wouldn't completely rule it out.
19:14
Speaker 2: But also again, yeah, look at what Aj Hinch said, like,
19:18
Speaker 2: we want to win the Al Central the Tigers. Remember
19:21
Speaker 2: last year, Aj and Scott, we're getting getting kind of
19:24
Speaker 2: poop pooed for setting expectations really low and letting the
19:28
Speaker 2: players talk that way. They are talking about things in
19:30
Speaker 2: a different manner. So I do think that backs up
19:33
Speaker 2: the idea that, uh, they don't want to play the
19:36
Speaker 2: service time game.
19:37
Speaker 3: They don't want to put him in triple A. Just
19:40
Speaker 3: for him to be in Triple A. I think they
19:42
Speaker 3: believe he gives them the best chance to win if
19:44
Speaker 3: he's anything close to what he can be. There's some
19:46
Speaker 3: things he can continue to do better attack hitters in
19:50
Speaker 3: the strike zone, not just rely on Chase with the slider,
19:55
Speaker 3: be able to generate swing and miss in the zone.
19:58
Speaker 3: So some things like that that he certainly has the
20:01
Speaker 3: stuff to do. It is the type of thing that
20:03
Speaker 3: these guys could talk about, like he needs to refine
20:06
Speaker 3: in Triple A.
20:07
Speaker 2: But this year's stuff, dude, it's it's so good. It's
20:10
Speaker 2: better than everyone except maybe Scooble. And that's why I
20:13
Speaker 2: think he's gonna be on the opening day roster.
20:16
Speaker 1: Oh man, there's a lot of there's a lot of
20:19
Speaker 1: mind pretzels that could be had here now that I'm
20:22
Speaker 1: just going through everything, every scenario in my head, every
20:25
Speaker 1: scenario where it's like, you know, Joe Miese is killing
20:29
Speaker 1: it in spring, you can't do anything about Maeta, but
20:32
Speaker 1: you're gonna give him the shot because you're paying the money.
20:34
Speaker 1: And then all of a sudden, Job is the guy
20:36
Speaker 1: that just kind of gets squeezed out there for you know,
20:39
Speaker 1: he's kind of not like political in the traditional sense,
20:42
Speaker 1: but like sort of like these like off the field
20:45
Speaker 1: kind of reasons or whatever.
20:47
Speaker 3: Uh.
20:48
Speaker 2: That's why I want to say, like, I don't think
20:50
Speaker 2: the Tigers are going to do like a like I
20:53
Speaker 2: don't know. I wonder if this fifth rotation spot, let's say,
20:55
Speaker 2: to my ATA spot is more of like a floating spot.
20:58
Speaker 2: Maybe my ata myes heard are all on the roster
21:01
Speaker 2: and it's like depending on that day's hitters, or maybe
21:04
Speaker 2: it's even kind of a six man thing where one.
21:07
Speaker 3: Day is just a bullpen day.
21:09
Speaker 2: If the Tigers believe they can do that without taxing
21:12
Speaker 2: their pins so much.
21:13
Speaker 3: We saw him kind of do that last year. I
21:16
Speaker 3: think that may end up being the most interesting thing
21:18
Speaker 3: to watch.
21:20
Speaker 1: Well, I regardless, what I want is for like, so
21:24
Speaker 1: you have a J. Hinch talking about where's trying to
21:26
Speaker 1: win the division. I want the moves that are made
21:29
Speaker 1: and the roster constructed in a manner that reflects that,
21:34
Speaker 1: you know what I mean.
21:34
Speaker 3: While you're trying to win the division.
21:36
Speaker 2: I price signed Jack Flaherty if I thought he was healthy,
21:38
Speaker 2: But I'm not making these mops.
21:41
Speaker 3: So well, there you go.
21:44
Speaker 1: Uh that leads us to like another sort of talking
21:52
Speaker 1: point in baseball right now. Jeff pass And put out
21:55
Speaker 1: like a sort of like a summarization of the Major
21:59
Speaker 1: League Baseball analysis on arms and and they're you know,
22:06
Speaker 1: their use in the increase in injuries and blah blah blah.
22:08
Speaker 1: And to be honest, like that report was never meant
22:12
Speaker 1: to be groundbreaking, so therefore nothing groundbreaking happened in it.
22:15
Speaker 1: But I do think it's worth us addressing here, Cody,
22:18
Speaker 1: because like for me personally, like I have sort of
22:25
Speaker 1: a mental conundrum when I watch baseball now, especially like
22:33
Speaker 1: teams like the Tigers, who are really really good at
22:35
Speaker 1: utilizing their pitching talents. So like I say, I see
22:40
Speaker 1: guys that, and I'm not gonna try name names because
22:43
Speaker 1: I don't want it to be directly linked to anybody.
22:45
Speaker 1: But I see guys that you hear reports that they're
22:47
Speaker 1: throwing ninety four in West Michigan and then you see
22:52
Speaker 1: him hit one hundred point eight in Detroit, and part
22:57
Speaker 1: of me thinks, like that's just not natural, and not
23:01
Speaker 1: in the ped sense natural, Like that's just not natural
23:04
Speaker 1: for someone's output to increase that much, and it's and
23:08
Speaker 1: it can't be good long term. Like I knew a
23:11
Speaker 1: guy in college that, like, he was a Juco pitcher
23:16
Speaker 1: and he was a bartender at one of the one
23:19
Speaker 1: of the places on the strip, and he couldn't extend
23:21
Speaker 1: his right arm all the way out. He showed me, like,
23:23
Speaker 1: left arm all the way out, right arm, you know,
23:27
Speaker 1: I like, you know, just under just you know, barely
23:31
Speaker 1: ninety degrees really just a little bit over. So it's
23:33
Speaker 1: like like that stuff's real, that's just you. That's just
23:36
Speaker 1: high school and Juco, you know what I mean. And
23:38
Speaker 1: you receive reports about kids, you know, throwing like fourteen
23:42
Speaker 1: years old and they're throwing eighty eight, you know whatever
23:44
Speaker 1: these numbers are and I just don't think that's good.
23:47
Speaker 1: I just don't think that's good overall for health of players,
23:50
Speaker 1: for the game, for the long term effects. That doesn't
23:53
Speaker 1: mean I have any solutions, but and I don't enjoy
23:57
Speaker 1: these guys throwing gas because it is one of the
23:58
Speaker 1: most exciting things in the game. But man, I just
24:02
Speaker 1: don't know. I just don't know if we're like on
24:04
Speaker 1: a good path and it's nobody's fault. Players are trying
24:09
Speaker 1: to get scholarships, get drafted, get to the league, get paid.
24:14
Speaker 1: They're obviously not wrong. Front officers are trying to utilize
24:18
Speaker 1: the players they have to the greatest extent. Coaches are
24:21
Speaker 1: trying to get the most out of their players. Like,
24:24
Speaker 1: nobody's at fault here. I'm not blaming anybody, but it
24:28
Speaker 1: just doesn't feel good.
24:31
Speaker 3: No.
24:32
Speaker 2: I kind of view MLB's arm injury epidemic kind of
24:36
Speaker 2: like social media and disinformation and lack of trust in
24:41
Speaker 2: the news, Like it is a clear problem that is
24:43
Speaker 2: very bad and has very serious consequences, and yet there's
24:47
Speaker 2: like no real solution. People aren't going to stop being
24:51
Speaker 2: on social media. People aren't going to stop watching TikTok videos.
24:55
Speaker 2: People are likely not going to regain trust in traditional
24:59
Speaker 2: news out it's where if any of those if trust
25:03
Speaker 2: can be regained, it's going to take decades, not a
25:06
Speaker 2: few months.
25:08
Speaker 3: Like there's no real remedy.
25:12
Speaker 2: Pitchers aren't gonna stop throwing as hard as they can
25:14
Speaker 2: because if they do, they aren't going to get jobs.
25:17
Speaker 2: Teams aren't going to ask pitchers to take it easier
25:20
Speaker 2: because if they do, they are not going to win games.
25:24
Speaker 2: Usage is really interesting, Like for a long time we
25:27
Speaker 2: thought of arm injuries as a workload thing. But if
25:30
Speaker 2: you're throwing max effort, that is taxing your arm extremely,
25:35
Speaker 2: even if that's just for an inning at a time.
25:38
Speaker 2: So teams like the Rays, and you do have to
25:40
Speaker 2: wonder are the Tigers entering this equation, Like can burn
25:43
Speaker 2: out arms and cycle through arms really fast and just
25:46
Speaker 2: replace them with another that's a flaw. That's a unintended
25:51
Speaker 2: consequence of being really good at pitching. Development, And man,
25:54
Speaker 2: I don't know what you do. I do personally believe
25:57
Speaker 2: like I haven't played, you know, done the whole club
25:59
Speaker 2: baseball thing, playing eighty games in the summer.
26:02
Speaker 3: It starts at a really young level.
26:04
Speaker 2: Kids are entering high school, college, the big leagues with
26:07
Speaker 2: arms that are damaged. So if there's any solution, it's
26:10
Speaker 2: probably that. But how do you fix that? Stop playing
26:14
Speaker 2: travel baseball. Parents don't want to do that because they
26:16
Speaker 2: want their kids to be as good as possible. Kids
26:17
Speaker 2: don't want to do that because they like playing the game.
26:20
Speaker 2: Like it's it's a really tough, really delicate situation. I
26:24
Speaker 2: was a little disappointed in the MLB study report that
26:28
Speaker 2: came out because it wasn't really a study. We didn't
26:30
Speaker 2: really learn anything tangible, But it's kind of been framed
26:33
Speaker 2: as like this is step one of what's going to
26:36
Speaker 2: lead to deeper and deeper studies and maybe one of
26:38
Speaker 2: these days some kind of solution.
26:41
Speaker 3: Yeah.
26:42
Speaker 1: I mean it's going to have to be like put
26:44
Speaker 1: on its face a little bit and people are going
26:46
Speaker 1: to have to look in the mirrors. And I would
26:48
Speaker 1: equate it also to like AAU and basketball and how
26:51
Speaker 1: that's kind of changed, like you know, the culture of
26:54
Speaker 1: that sport where I don't like, I just don't know
26:58
Speaker 1: if there's really any like that much redeeming value for this.
27:02
Speaker 1: And uh and so I at the shout out my
27:05
Speaker 1: dad real quick. He was ahead of ahead of his time,
27:08
Speaker 1: like he I never I played baseball my entire life,
27:10
Speaker 1: never pitched a single any didn't want me to throw
27:13
Speaker 1: my arm out. I don't. I don't think he had
27:15
Speaker 1: the I don't think he had the wherewithal to see
27:18
Speaker 1: where the game was going here. But he gets to
27:19
Speaker 1: take credit for that because, uh, you know, the old
27:22
Speaker 1: thing still still works pretty well over here, little little uh.
27:29
Speaker 1: Touching up on some other Tigers news, we have the
27:34
Speaker 1: return to the organization of fan favorite friend of the podcast,
27:40
Speaker 1: a Kiel Bad And if you recall he uh they
27:45
Speaker 1: had reached he was he was get what was the
27:48
Speaker 1: number like one point? He was tendered at one point,
27:51
Speaker 1: was at six one point.
27:53
Speaker 2: I don't A lot of the reporting out there wasn't
27:55
Speaker 2: accurate because it was assuming he was arbitration eligible.
27:58
Speaker 3: A Chiel is not arbitration eligible.
28:00
Speaker 2: He didn't play enough games last year, so despite being
28:03
Speaker 2: our eligible or agreeing to terms the year before, he
28:06
Speaker 2: wasn't r eligible this year. Uh So, he I believe
28:09
Speaker 2: making like eighty percent of last year's salary something like that.
28:12
Speaker 2: Not sure the exact figure, but he's making more than
28:15
Speaker 2: a league minimum, let's put it that way.
28:17
Speaker 1: Okay, Well, and then he was he was wave to
28:21
Speaker 1: make room for Alex Cobb. So shout out the first
28:23
Speaker 1: guy on this DFA excuse me, uh, to make room
28:28
Speaker 1: for Alex Cobb, first subject of this podcast here and
28:31
Speaker 1: now he cleared, So therefore he has been outrighted to Toledo.
28:38
Speaker 1: I hope there is something good that comes of a
28:41
Speaker 1: keep badous like time here, Like I don't, I would
28:46
Speaker 1: like to see him have a couple of moments. I
28:48
Speaker 1: think we all recognize what his ceiling is and you
28:51
Speaker 1: know and what like on a you know, a team
28:55
Speaker 1: trying to contend for a championship, that's I would say,
28:58
Speaker 1: relatively deep in the out feel all things considered, like
29:02
Speaker 1: what his role would be. But he's too fun and
29:07
Speaker 1: there's too many attributes that he has that you just
29:11
Speaker 1: don't want to lose as an organization. So I'm happy
29:13
Speaker 1: he's back in the organization. But I also kind of
29:15
Speaker 1: hope he sees this as still an opportunity to contribute
29:18
Speaker 1: to a winning culture, which if I were him and
29:21
Speaker 1: I'm looking at the guys in front of him, I'm
29:23
Speaker 1: not sure me personally if I.
29:24
Speaker 3: Would have that attitude.
29:26
Speaker 1: I hope, but I hope I hope he does because
29:28
Speaker 1: I think he's there's still there's still like impact to
29:32
Speaker 1: be had from a Kielba do, I think.
29:34
Speaker 3: Yeah, we've talked a lot about a quill like.
29:36
Speaker 2: I kind of feel bad for him because I just
29:37
Speaker 2: don't think there's much opportunity in terms of like actual
29:40
Speaker 2: future here in Detroit, and there might have been for
29:43
Speaker 2: him elsewhere, say Kilby Do. And I don't even know
29:46
Speaker 2: what the Martlins outfield is, but just put him in
29:48
Speaker 2: the system of a bad team and I feel like
29:50
Speaker 2: he could play a lot given his skill set a
29:54
Speaker 2: kiel I'm surprised Hee cleared waivers, but I do think
29:57
Speaker 2: it's probably related to the fact his salary is going
30:00
Speaker 2: to be a tick higher than the average waiver claim,
30:05
Speaker 2: even though it's nothing astronomical, I'm sure that played a
30:07
Speaker 2: role in him clearing waivers. So the Tigers are happy
30:11
Speaker 2: to have him back, even though they might not really
30:13
Speaker 2: have a grand plan for him anymore. He's a left
30:17
Speaker 2: handed bat, still a little bit of upside obviously brings
30:20
Speaker 2: the speed to the table, and he still has an option,
30:23
Speaker 2: so he's he's usable. He's not obviously on the forty
30:26
Speaker 2: man right now, but you do wonder if a left
30:29
Speaker 2: handed outfielder gets hurt, Kuda Kiel bad once again, be
30:33
Speaker 2: the next guy up. You know, if there's there would
30:36
Speaker 2: have to be a forty spot available. Do you want
30:38
Speaker 2: to make that loud and clear? But yeah, that's that's
30:42
Speaker 2: kind of all I got to take away. I was
30:44
Speaker 2: almost excited to see a Keel elsewhere, kind of see
30:47
Speaker 2: what he can do. Surprise he got through waivers, but
30:50
Speaker 2: pretty good depth to have intire system.
30:53
Speaker 1: Yeah, he played and pulling it up right now. He
30:56
Speaker 1: played in I just had it thirty one games, he
30:59
Speaker 1: had seven at BET's eighty two played appearances. So hopefully,
31:06
Speaker 1: like I said, hopefully, it's it's managed in a way
31:09
Speaker 1: where he can find some rhythm and then like that,
31:12
Speaker 1: what was it Houston? Last year we got called up
31:14
Speaker 1: and it's like he wasn't going to play more than
31:18
Speaker 1: like a game or two or whatever. But AJ made
31:20
Speaker 1: it a point to say like he's still part of
31:21
Speaker 1: this and you know, blah blah blah. So like I
31:25
Speaker 1: hope that resonates. But look, you got yeah, I remember,
31:28
Speaker 1: like Riley Green, we're still gonna be holding our breath
31:30
Speaker 1: like health wise, you know what I mean. Parker Meadows
31:34
Speaker 1: plays a style that lends itself to soft tissue injuries.
31:37
Speaker 1: It just us he had one last year and carry
31:40
Speaker 1: Carpenter like, hopefully his off season regiment has been adjusted,
31:45
Speaker 1: but like a back thing is always scary, especially with
31:48
Speaker 1: how hard he swings, and we still we can't say
31:52
Speaker 1: for sure, like what kind of year two like Wentzel
31:56
Speaker 1: Pere Perez will have, you know what I mean, Like
31:58
Speaker 1: there's things can't have It's baseball. Things can't happen, and
32:02
Speaker 1: he is a valuable asset to in my opinion, to
32:05
Speaker 1: have in your organization. So happy to see him come back,
32:10
Speaker 1: all right, Cody, anything else before we jet out of here?
32:15
Speaker 2: No, nothing, really, a couple of little housekeeping things. The
32:17
Speaker 2: Tigers seem to have their catching depth. It's Brian's servant.
32:21
Speaker 2: He's on a minor league deal. I would expect him
32:23
Speaker 2: to be the primary guy in Toledo, and if there's
32:26
Speaker 2: an injury, maybe could get back up. They also added
32:30
Speaker 2: a picture right hander Ryan Miller, who I believe we
32:33
Speaker 2: saw in Camerica Park last year or so. Just wanted
32:36
Speaker 2: to make sure everyone is up on those updates.
32:40
Speaker 1: All right, And it literally just came out a couple
32:44
Speaker 1: a couple hours ago. Nolana Ornato will not be going
32:47
Speaker 1: to Houston. He will not or he will exercise his
32:52
Speaker 1: no trade claw should a trade be agreed to.
32:55
Speaker 3: So no trade, Nolan, No.
32:59
Speaker 1: Man, if we were we're that new Cardinals podcast, it's
33:03
Speaker 1: hard to Yeah, Yeahtory right, shout shout out Cardinal territory,
33:08
Speaker 1: that'd be no trade and Nold, that's a good one.
33:11
Speaker 3: Uh all right.
33:12
Speaker 1: I want to thank you everybody for listening. Thank you
33:14
Speaker 1: everybody for subscribing on YouTube and Apple and Spotify wherever
33:19
Speaker 1: you get your podcasts. As a reminder, we will have
33:21
Speaker 1: an episode on Monday, the twenty third, so make sure
33:25
Speaker 1: we are part of your holiday routine because we're still
33:29
Speaker 1: going to be there for it. We ain't going nowhere.
33:30
Speaker 1: I mean, we're gonna be places, but like you know,
33:32
Speaker 1: the podcast is not going anywhere for the holiday. So
33:35
Speaker 1: hope everybody, if you're traveling this weekend, has a safe
33:38
Speaker 1: and uh uh and and fun holiday celebration with your
33:42
Speaker 1: family and all that stuff. So for Cody Savenhagen, I'm
33:45
Speaker 1: Kieran Steckley. Everybody, have a great day.