Latest / Get Into Gate: A Stargate Podcast / Episode 230: No Man's Land (SG-A 3.01)

Transcript

Episode 230: No Man's Land (SG-A 3.01) · Get Into Gate: A Stargate Podcast

0:25
Get into Gate episode two hundred and thirty top a Stargate at Atlanta Season three
0:30
finally upon us Mitchell, Maddie Brendan, boys, this is the last seasons.
0:36
We're doing kind of basty one Atlantis as well, Mitchemer. Last week
0:40
you're talking about this is the last time. Yeah, this is it the
0:44
last premiere over John Farm Concert. Yeah. Here we are Atlantis, no
0:49
Man's Lands. We're getting into quote unquote peak Atlantis. That is a quote
0:55
from one Maddie Gibson a couple of weeks ago on the podcast, he said,
0:58
this is your favorite season, Atlanta's easy. Yeah, I think it's
1:02
my favorite. I've got most of my favorite episodes in it. There's still
1:04
some stinkers here and that it's fine, but yeah, to me, there's
1:08
a big taper after season three, quite dramatic. Well, I mean we
1:15
do kick off this this season with a little bit more Michael, and I
1:17
know you guys have said, look, Michael, fine, it's just come
1:21
the end of Atlantis, Like we've seen enough of him. So when you
1:25
go back and do a bit of a rewatch, that's only us. We
1:27
didn't see the end of Atlanta's Mitchell. We're not trying to make you believe
1:30
that he survives all the way through it. We're now in his final sure,
1:36
yes, yes. And also we had a lot of feedback from our
1:38
review last Atlantis review, yeah, where people like we loved Michael. Yes,
1:45
yeah, I respect that. I agree, Yeah, I respect it.
1:49
I probably enjoyed a lot the first time. But yeah, I remember,
1:52
I remember enjoying Michael the episode the first time. It was a great
1:55
twist. But yeah, the more I watched, I'm like, yeah,
1:57
I know what's happening. It's fine, And yeah, I think he gets
2:00
over here. And I think that's why it's fitting that Mitch had it in
2:04
his top three we did. Yeah, yeah, exactly How did you feel,
2:08
Mitch about getting into it? I guess, because again we don't have
2:10
synopsis currently with these diggy box sets, so we'll see what you that.
2:17
How did you feel I had issue with this episode with Michael's turn back to
2:22
working with us again. Yeah, that just with one little quip from the
2:25
Queen. Now, this is a society who all of the drones have you
2:30
know, what do you call it? Chest bombs built into their outfits to
2:36
die and sacrifice themselves for their queen. Yeah, this one queen said you're
2:39
smell on a bit human, Yeah, maybe you should go and you know,
2:43
self destruct yourself. And he goes, well, fuck this bitch and
2:46
decides he's going to go and work with Atlantis again. Yeah. I mean
2:50
it's been a minute since I watched the season finale to feel like how much
2:53
he was involved. I guess how much of the plan was because of him,
2:58
or that he created it whatever. So when it starts off and they
3:01
do a little bit of flashback stuff, obviously, but then also you see
3:05
the bit at the start where they're having a bit of a disagreement about the
3:07
Queen making some decisions without telling him, and then for me first time,
3:13
it very quickly seemed to be him not sympathizing with the humans, but like,
3:17
you're a means to the end that I need. And also, hey,
3:21
I was completely blind slided just like you guys, we're basically the same
3:23
bruss And I'm like, oh, I just feel like this is it just
3:27
seemed like ye, a bit of a too quick of a turn. Yeah,
3:30
I mean, he's Wraith. It'd be the means to another end that
3:34
will benefit him when he can betray them and can't wait for that to happen,
3:37
because of course it's going to happen. I mean, if it doesn't,
3:40
he's like, what he's our little sleeper agent within them. I don't
3:45
know, but if that's the case, it seems like a very quick turn.
3:47
It happened between almost between scenes. Like I get that he was angry
3:52
at the Queen and angry at what had happened, but then like the next
3:54
time we see him, he's helping them to do what they want to do
3:59
and help like just picked up the walky talking like Shepherd, bro, I'll
4:01
help you. Yeah, you take an a hyperdrive that that'd be sick,
4:04
That would help you, That would help you so much. Yeah. Given
4:06
that, like at the end of the episode, Michael, it's like,
4:10
if we hadn't stopped him, he would have fed on Taylor, like and
4:13
she would be dead. And they're like he was that hardcore and she was
4:16
she was the only one who was quote unquote nice to him. Yeah,
4:19
and he was ready to feed on her. He was that determined to go
4:24
back to his people. And now he's come up with this whole plan to
4:28
you know, backstab us or was like, well, the Queen had her
4:30
own plan and he wasn't in on the plan and blah blah blah blah.
4:33
It's like, I feel like any other like Lieutenant non scab face Race would
4:39
have just been like, yeah, well she's the queen queen, you know,
4:43
yeah, whereas he suddenly got this main character energy where he's just like,
4:46
oh, no, you're MPC before you were here and yeah right,
4:51
yeah. So I think, I mean, it does double down in the
4:54
fact that I think he has been irreparably changed from what we did to him
4:59
in making him huge, and I think that's changed him forever. But yeah,
5:02
he now does kind of feel othered by both. He's never going to
5:05
be a wraith, he's never going to be a human, so he's decided
5:11
to be sort of this thing in between. So I don't know why he
5:15
would then suddenly just like I know, there's the whole you know, enemy
5:17
of your enemy is your friend, blah blah blah. But it's like just
5:19
the amount of help and trust that he was putting in, not Mitchell,
5:26
putting in Shepherd, and then even at the end when Ronan was just like
5:29
oh what and I can kill you, it's like, oh, because I'm
5:30
trusting you and hands him his gun, which I was spoking about last week.
5:33
We got to make sure Ronan gets his gun back. Yeah, I
5:36
was just like, I don't know, man, I mean, it is
5:40
weird. It's a weird stopping point because I would have actually loved for us
5:43
to have done this episode and the next Atlantic episode Misbegotten almost as like a
5:47
two parter, to do them to well. When it ended with to be
5:50
continued, I'm like, oh, crap, I've only had enough time to
5:53
watch this. Did I not know that there were two parts of Men's I
5:57
think I have a different view, and just talking about where we're up to
6:00
at this point, Michael has nowhere to go, so I would have almost
6:04
felt like he would be more accepted with the humans. So I feel like
6:09
at this point they should have I would have liked it if they actually cast
6:13
it Treineer into the Atlanta's cast and he's a wraith in Atlanta. Oh yeah,
6:19
and then they can use his abilities like a tilk Yeah kind of.
6:24
I just like the Queen. The Queen wasn't that that mean to him?
6:29
No? Not really. He just came up and said, Hey, what's
6:30
this new plan that you guys didn't tell me? About and she said,
6:33
I'm the Queen. I do whatever I want and if you don't like it,
6:36
go jump out an air lock and then see he suddenly then went back
6:40
to his room and just like if she didn't, and I'm going to go
6:44
and help Shepard blow this ship up? What made tell us again that you're
6:46
not human emotions right now? Yeah, she's literally one saying I can smell
6:50
the humanity on you. So what does he do? He goes and helps
6:53
the humans blow up her ship. That's what I mean, like they he
6:57
probably, like you said, he they would sacrifice themselves. He feels like
7:00
he doesn't want to do that because he was human mate, yeah, or
7:03
because of his transition and he's trying to come back and they're like, we
7:06
don't accept you, you scumbag. I feel like he would have been more
7:10
accepted in human and then it would have been a nice kind of plot point
7:14
trying to get him and Ronan on the same page. Yeah, I would.
7:15
I would have liked them to double down more on the because obviously in
7:19
the episode, Michael, it's just him discovering who he really is and trying
7:23
to get back to his people. It would have been more interesting this episode,
7:26
I think to find out more about the fact that they don't actually accept
7:30
him. He's been painted. We don't We still don't know who he Michael
7:34
was prior to that, right, he's just a genistic generic Wraith guy,
7:39
which, oh my god, speaking of did you notice in this episode Mitchell
7:42
won't know this reference? But did you see Todd in this episode? No,
7:46
Todd, He's not really similar. It's that actor, is it.
7:49
It's that actor. So, Mitch, there's a you know, hauling Christopher
7:55
Hydol, like the the Ethosian guy, the friend of Taylor in the Link.
8:00
Yeah, the guy from the Link episode. He goes on to play
8:03
a Wraith character, a recurring Wraith character called Todd. Well, you know,
8:11
he gets the name to it, but it's like he's Todd. Oh
8:16
yeah, maybe maybe I should have said recurring. Yeah, but yeah,
8:20
it's like Christopher Hidel is playing just a generic Wraith lieutenant in this episode.
8:24
And it's like, because I mean, they did it all the time,
8:26
Like we had that guy from season one who played every single Wraith and they
8:30
just gave him a different face tattoo, and then he was like I'm done
8:33
playing Wraith. Now I'm sick of prosthetics, and they started, you know,
8:37
using other Wraith lieutenants. But I guess because I skipped this episode quite
8:39
often, I never noticed that there's a Christopher hyerdel Wraith just in that one
8:45
scene. Yeah that's fun. Yeah that's nice. I mean, I didn't
8:50
know it was him, but I'm like, he looks like, yeah that
8:54
guy. Come on, guys, you gotta talk about it. No,
9:00
let's let's let's talk about weird being about us. Bring up like just the
9:05
fact that they're like, you gotta come back to Earth now, and I'm
9:07
like, oh shit, okay, like and you know, yeah, she
9:11
did tell them to go, well kind of stick it out their ass,
9:15
but if you don't like what I'm doing, then I quit. Okay,
9:20
bro calm down, No, come on now, this do they want John?
9:26
This? I mean, wolzie, No, this is a This is
9:33
a perfect example of the ridiculous double standard that weir as held to. They
9:41
are literally still in the middle of the crisis and the Ioway decides to come
9:46
back and debrief her. Meanwhile, they put their own well, they put
9:52
their own what do they call they put their foot in their own mouth.
9:56
In fairness, doctor we are kepus informed of every action they took along the
10:01
way, and we support her at the recommendations. I know, but clearly
10:05
we were not in possession of all the facts. Obviously neither were we ambassador
10:11
the the Ioway, you know all the facts either exactly. We mean,
10:18
I knew they would download ship into my computers and I said it was fine,
10:22
and they stabbed me in the back. The Ioway signed off on every
10:28
single funck. We are checking them in every single step up the way.
10:33
But she didn't. But she they just admitted they did in Tamlin to Meter
10:37
just admitted that the Ioway, if she's involved, really, hey, how
10:46
many go back on? How many times she you know that old adage and
10:50
met three episodes talks about playing chess against a pigeon and they just kick over
10:54
the pieces on the board and strut around. Well, let's talk about it.
10:58
You want to talk about it? Feels like right now. Three episodes
11:00
before the finale, the Wraith thought Atlantis was dead. We were safe that
11:03
Jenny I thought we were dead as well. That's it. Just live in
11:09
peace and harmony. Now go through the gate, do some cool stuff.
11:11
She ficked that up. Three episodes in a row. Well, that was
11:15
with Michael. That was that was Beckett wanting to restore Wraith to their natural
11:20
form, even though they weren't born human. Beckett thinks, but I'm talking
11:26
about this episode specifically, But they're talking about her decisions in those three episodes.
11:31
No, they're talking about these, they're talking about last week. They're
11:33
only they're only talking about the alliance with the Wraith from last episode. So
11:39
she didn't ask for permission to download Wraith data, No, she did it.
11:45
Listen to this again, and the Ioway signed off on everything. That's
11:48
what I'm saying. But now they're trying to rake her over the calls for
11:50
it. Yes, in the middle of the mission, like she didn't give
11:52
them all the information. She did though, listen again, or she said,
11:58
doctor we were kept us informed of every action they took along the way,
12:01
and we support her all recommendations. I know, but clearly we were
12:05
not in possession of all the facts. Obviously neither were we, and that
12:13
we reported every single piece off she had to the Ioway did yeah, No,
12:20
she that's what Woolesey said. Listen to that again. Number three,
12:24
Mitchell, what did Woolsey say in fairness. Doctor, were kept us informed
12:30
of every action they took along, they took along, They kept us informed
12:33
of every action they took, and the and the iowayer mission to do it.
12:37
She doesn't need permission. They make up your mind, then they signed
12:41
off. She doesn't. She doesn't, so then she no. That's why
12:46
they're putting her on trial. Now. Listen, three weeks in a row,
12:50
we were safe, mate. Yeah, you have to admit it.
12:54
Yeah, yeah, obviously, that's why I don't like the whole Michael thing.
12:56
It was dumb, it was stupid. But then the Jeni one.
13:00
And but we're also watching a TV show, So if there's no peril,
13:03
then there's no show. So they have people have to make those kinds of
13:05
decisions to create peril. Let's let's create cool new enemies. Well they did.
13:11
They created Michael. That's a cool new enemy. And he's not new.
13:15
He's a wraith. Yeah, but he's a human raith. Anyway,
13:18
The problem I have is the mission is still going. I can understand if
13:22
they want to pull We're aside after the raith attack has been thwarted and say,
13:28
you idiot, you shouldn't have done this. You shouldn't have done this.
13:31
You shouldn't have done this. In hindsight, they're in the middle of
13:35
the mission, which they haven't resolved yet, and they've decided to recall.
13:39
We're from Atlantis to say we agreed with everything you said up until this point,
13:43
but now we've decided we don't. Yeah, it was bullshit. So
13:48
I loved the fact that we was like, you guys don't make a decision.
13:52
So you know what, I'm going to do the thing that you guys
13:54
can't do, which is make a decision because I'm an actual fucking leader,
13:58
not a politician, a good one, but she is one. Hey,
14:01
she's she's got Landry in her corner. He's Landry's like, if I'm gonna
14:05
choose in the Iowa, and we are, I'm choosing. I actually liked
14:09
that where he's like, hey, you got to come back, like you
14:11
you're being ordered, you have to come back. And then when she's rolling
14:13
through, she's like, yeah, but who even said this? He has
14:16
the president. She's what if I said it didn't believe he is, Well,
14:18
yeah, actually you know he didn't. But you need to go and
14:20
see them and said it was you. They're diplomats, Okay, you're gonna
14:22
you're gonna, you're gonna nail this because you face to face and they're going
14:26
to carry in their boots rather than doing it over a zoom call from the
14:28
other side of the universe. They don't give a ship. They're gonna think
14:31
they have all the power, but if you're in the room with them,
14:33
they're going to shit themselves. So I do like that. And the fact
14:35
that yeah, when she's sitting there going, hey, it's been an hour
14:37
or whatever it was, Well they oh they're still talking. She's like,
14:39
of course that because they want me to like make a wrong whatever decision I
14:43
make, if it doesn't work, yeah it's wrong. Well we didn't wanted
14:48
to do that. We just hadn't come up with a decision. So I
14:50
like that she was like and throughout s g one as well. Yeah,
14:54
they weren't called the IOWA back then, but it was the same burracle.
14:58
Well it was it was the government. It was like Woolsey, Yeah,
15:03
what's the guy from politics? And Kinsey. Kinsey came from accounting, like
15:07
he came from like the people holding the purse strings for the SGC and he
15:11
came in over committee. Why are we're giving you no because the IOWA.
15:16
The other guy the IOWA is International Oversight Committee. So it's after season six
15:22
once we've to other countries international Oversight Advisory advisor. But remember they had the
15:28
committee. I think he or the next guy that was part of the US
15:33
government though that was specifically the US government and who pay the bills for the
15:39
US military. Yeah, I'm just saying we're going through this whole same thing
15:43
again with dumb ass bureaucrats. Yeah, they can't make up a decision.
15:48
They want to injure you in hindsight, they want to drag you over the
15:50
calls in hindsight. Absolutely, but if you make a great decision, they're
15:54
like, yeah, we well we're the ones that decision to make that great
15:58
call. So yeah, no, and this is well I liked that bit.
16:02
I like that bit where she was like, all right, well I'm
16:03
going to make the decision. If you don't like it, then I'm quitting.
16:07
You're gonna have to fire. That's when that's the thing, because she's
16:10
a civilian, not a military person. So that's that's you know, she's
16:14
gonna go get banged by the rim. She probably didn't I need to get
16:18
back to see John. How does she get back to see John? And
16:22
does she bang the rim on the way? Actually that's her looking for him
16:29
through away. She bust in to save him the queen away that she literally
16:36
blew. That's an interesting question though, how I guess we might find out
16:40
next season. That was how does she get back to Atlanta? Yeah,
16:42
that was my thoughts too, was like the fact that that means Atlanta is
16:47
going to be without her for like a month. Thank god, ship done?
16:52
They come make it to Utopia and established peace with it. You know,
16:56
I I thought the same thing as soon as she walked through, And
16:57
I'm like, uh, I mean, I don't know a lot. And
17:02
maybe Jacob's right then I don't pay enough attention. Shouldn't they need one of
17:07
those to get her back? We can do Mobius again, get another ZPM.
17:12
Yeah, if they want to be really showy, it's they put the
17:18
ZPM on the dead list. The deadalist flies was it three weeks or whatever?
17:22
Earth? Oh no, this is no. But they didn't sert the
17:26
ZPM, so the deadlist could be back in two or three days. That's
17:29
right. Then they take the ZPM out connected to the stargate, so we
17:33
can step through the stargate. Then they put the ZPM back on the dead
17:37
list platform. That would definitely be the quickest way to get her back,
17:41
wouldn't it, Yeah, John, instead of her just like just taking the
17:44
normal It's the quickest way to get her back, but the longest time that
17:47
Atlantis would be without its defenses, right, Yeah. So it's like,
17:49
who's more important the city and everyone on it or we're in charge. Brendan's
17:55
penny for your thoughts. Obviously I had some audio commentary presence for you last
18:03
week with Robert C. Cooper and his fantastic commentary regifting. Well, no,
18:07
this is for me. This one's just for me because obviously we have
18:11
the fantastic Martin Giro my Robert C. Cooper writing this episode. Who you
18:17
know, we have that great bit of body of him with just the talking
18:19
about his own work. He's doubled down on this. It's not the one.
18:23
It's not the one labeled boring, is it. It certainly is.
18:26
I think these scenes are a little boring. I really, I really tried.
18:32
You know, it's an important story, I guess, and it's no
18:37
one's fault on my own, but I really think I wrote these scenes too
18:40
long. The necessary evil of exposition for explanation has to happen. Because you
18:47
can't have action in this there's there's not you can't. Real problem is this
18:49
scene couldn't be funny, you know, and or at least I couldn't write
18:53
funny. My deficiencies as a writer made it impossible for me to write this
18:57
funny. But it just didn't seem like a first Yeah, there was too
19:00
much good, too much going on with the we're about to lose her job
19:04
and these guys being jerks and the Wraith on their way to Earth. You
19:07
know, it's just usually what I can do in these exposition scenes if I
19:11
have McKay or something like that, or you know, I can I can
19:15
kind of pepper it with the funny. But it just didn't feel, you
19:17
know, like that's a scene. We needed to make it as fun as
19:22
I think it could have been. Anyway, I apologize. I actually don't
19:25
mind the self deprecating as opposed to Cooper how he's like, I'm the great
19:29
I'm the best. Yeah, yeah, I'm the greatest, and you're like,
19:32
dude, you wrote one good episode. Calm down. But also,
19:36
Martin gear is very much a I'm fantastic, But then he's just like,
19:40
oh, but I'm not fantastic because I'm ship I didn't. I didn't write
19:42
this episode very good. It's an amazing season opener. I didn't write it.
19:45
But at what point does he know that it's does he know that he's
19:49
he can't He's like he can't write himself out of out of the box.
19:52
He knows it's poorly written. Or does he wait until that he watches how
19:56
it's being received by the director on set well the actors, or he's the
20:00
reciting back his dialogue walking through the scenes that he's written, going oh,
20:03
geez, actually that isn't good. Because at what point do you go from
20:07
that? You know what I couldn't. I could try and make this better,
20:11
or I could call in some help to make it better, or eventually,
20:14
when I do the DVD commentary, I'll just say, yeah, it's
20:17
shit, and I apologize, and then people will not think it's as shit
20:21
because at least the guy who wrote it aware, because I'm self aware of
20:23
it. Yeah, and my ego is so precious that I'm gonna say it's
20:26
not good even though I submitted and hundreds of thousand dollars got spent making this
20:30
piece of shit that I wrote. But because they're all it's a Canadian production,
20:34
all the Canadians gonna be like, oh no, no, very good,
20:38
and they're gonna then pump up by telling me how great the episode is.
20:41
By him telling us that it's a shit episode. And I'm like,
20:44
you're an idiot, mate. And he's specifically talking about all the weird IOA
20:49
scenes when he was doing that commentary. He's got fucking Woolsey there. Woolzies
20:55
are funny, bastard, Like, you could have Woolsey making plenty of little
20:57
quips and comedically little bits and pieces in there. He just chose not to.
21:02
Mm yeah, piece of ship. Plus there was the French ambassador.
21:08
He was. He was quite funny in the in the scourge, but being
21:14
like Spaceburg's you know, ship like that, he could have done bugs these
21:19
bugs. I'd tell you what I did. Actually, I found it humorous,
21:22
if not funny. Martin Garray where Mitchell got done it again. Shepherd
21:27
is there docked on the side of the ship you know, went full millennium
21:30
Falcon and Empire and he's just a docked there through hyperspat which is actually like
21:34
it was a really cool visual, him going wow, this is different.
21:37
The tilts on the camera made it. Yeah, yeah, really cool.
21:41
And then he he's sitting there like do I disengage the docking clamps or whatever?
21:45
And he's like, can I can I even attack them in yeah?
21:48
Hang on, and then has a memory about how he does Yeah, like
21:53
and I just found it because he remembers them talking about it. But then
21:56
it's just from Also, it was weird, which this is his memory and
22:02
which part of this is us looking at the scene that he's remembering because they
22:06
gave us a little bit about hey, this is what you can do in
22:07
hyperspace. But then we stopped listening and we focus in on him. But
22:11
I'm like, that's funny that in this that was a point of levity in
22:14
the show, Like it was quite dramatic up until that point, and that
22:15
seems like even this show is obviously it's a nice mixture of action in comedy
22:19
and whatever, but that seemed like a different type of comedy than what this
22:23
show usually does. Like, like you said that the throwback the family Guy
22:26
cut scene sort of thing, it was that that cutaway gave me a little
22:30
bit of PTSD only because I feel like, if if we all anyone listening,
22:36
you guys, go back and watch that episode and you've got two nerds
22:40
screaming at each other about different ways of science, and then just the one
22:44
guy sitting in the middle just staring blankly being silent. That's the three of
22:48
us. That's me and Brendan. Yeah, Me and Brendan are McKay AND's
22:53
the linker in that scene. And Mitchell just sitting there'll just not say anything,
22:59
just like it in his own little world. I was doing that.
23:03
I mean when we were recording our which which episode was it now a couple
23:08
of weeks ago you watch it with our podcast, but was it the mail
23:12
bag or is it the end of our SG It must be Solitudes the guy
23:18
talking about solitudes, And I watched Solitudes before we record it, but I
23:23
think I just watched it, Thank you, Jacob, I did, and
23:27
it just it just happened. And then you guys were arguing about the point
23:32
of origin symbol and blah blah blah, and I'm sitting there just so blank
23:34
going, oh, I agree with both of your points, even though they
23:37
contradict each other because I just watched the episode and it seemed to work as
23:41
it was. And then as much as you guys have sort of brought that
23:44
back over the years, and then that guy brought it back up in mail
23:47
bag and he had his own thoughts on it, and then you guys with
23:51
me, Sure, whoever it was doesn't matter to my point of view,
23:53
because I'm thinking, I don't know what they're arguing about. Yeah, and
23:56
so I really need to watch Solitudes and then immediately listen to our podcast on
24:03
it, and you'll be even more confused. So yeah, I agree with
24:08
you. We should do all a cut out, a cut up of everything
24:12
that we say about that, like as a commentary Solitude. Yeah, yeah,
24:18
an album is the best one for that, Alvin. I need you
24:22
to go back and get every single time we've referenced Solitude and put it in
24:25
a supercut a montage Album's busy doing his next Blink on eighty two cover true
24:30
one more Time, Let's get that up album. But No, that was
24:36
like once he sort of got the OK from Michael did actually, like when
24:37
he sort of took off and his bang mang it what the hyper drive?
24:41
Right? And he's going to go off and do the other one, and
24:42
he's like, yeah, I'm just a little bit busy and just sort of,
24:45
you know, spinning that's a cool trick while he's been fined, and
24:48
then bang, like he actually cops it on the wing and I'm like,
24:49
oh shit, Like, yeah, I didn't know what I expected to happen,
24:53
that he would just, oh, well, he would succeed exactly in
24:56
what he was doing. But if he did that, then I guess he
24:57
would have to land on the ship anyway, to either rescue his friends or
25:00
to kill a bad guy whatever the end game was going to be. So
25:04
the idea that he came in and he destroyed half of what he was out
25:07
to destroy and then still ended up on the ship, it's like we still
25:11
got there. But it wasn't the way that I thought. I actually respect
25:12
it. He wasn't entirely successful in what he was doing. Well, I
25:15
guess at a certain point he was never going to get away on the three
25:18
to zero two because it's like he's got to rescue Rodney and Ronan and he's
25:22
only got one extra chair in the back of his three too two. So
25:26
I kind of want to see that scene where like sitting on Ronan's lap or
25:32
Ronan on Rodney's lab. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it has to go
25:34
a cowgirl style because he can't. They can't fit if they're both because of
25:38
all his hair. His hair is going to be in the canopy. There
25:41
was a moment when Ronan broke out of the out of the organic the pod
25:45
pod and then he's yelling at Rodney. He's never he's actually never been more
25:51
annoying. And if I had to put myself in Ronan's shoes. Ronan was
25:55
having to deal with it for hours and hours on end, and we were
25:56
only getting little bits and pieces. But Mike was he annoying? Yeah,
26:00
and and like he was supposed to be annoying for me, but it was.
26:03
If it was a real life situation, I would have stabed the bloke
26:06
when I got out. But he got out, and while he was trying
26:07
to cut him away and free Rodney, there was like one of his dreadlocks
26:12
seemed to be acting independent of the Honestly, it seemed to be sitting horizontal,
26:18
go back and says that it is a wig. Yeah not yet,
26:23
but isn't it. No, that's his real hair. I apologize to Jacob,
26:27
that's his real hair. Because I was not paying attention to the dialogue
26:30
for a second, because I swear to God, there was a bit of
26:33
a one dreadlock strand that was up. Then it went down a little bit
26:37
up again and then so I don't know whether it got caught on some of
26:41
the tendrils or something or that. After I looked at that, Yeah,
26:42
that's fascinating. So when does he get the wig? Although this was a
26:45
wig, No, it's never a wig. So because you see it's made
26:51
out of his real hair. So what happened is that is that is Jason
26:55
Maman was real hair that he came to the show with. By season four
26:59
of five, he wanted to shave it, and he even came up with
27:02
an idea of there's a story in mine. He's like, with this story,
27:04
I could shave my head. We could totally work. Production said,
27:08
no, it is too icon the same reason they wouldn't let Tilk grow hands,
27:12
they want him to have shaved head. So what they did is between
27:15
seasons four and five, I believe they shaved his head, took all the
27:21
cuttings, turned it into a wig. So it is a wig made out
27:26
of his real hair, but it's still a wig mate. Yeah, but
27:27
not until the final season because they put it on Woolzy in that one.
27:33
Yeah, yeah, you know that would have been is a good storyline,
27:36
would have been, Oh what Ronan and Tilk have swapped bodies to try and
27:41
feel more like themselves. Ronan has to I must shave my head. I
27:45
must shave my head, and then Tilk needs to grow his out and then
27:49
we just kind of forget about it and let them exist in each other's franchise.
27:52
Yeah, yeah, Tilk has dreads and Ronan's shaved. Hmm. Yeah,
27:57
that'd be wild in a mad crossover episode. And then like, since
28:03
then, you look at Jason mcmurwen, it's like he is known for his
28:07
long hair, like that slick hair, which is so weird because when you
28:10
go and look at him as a baby in Baywatch, he's just got like
28:12
a short back and side. Yeah it looks so weird. Yeah it doesn't.
28:15
Yeah, it doesn't look like him at all. Well yeah, does
28:19
it looks like he's like his child? Yeah. So the reason Rodney and
28:26
Ronan were actually kept alive, apparently, according to the previously on was the
28:30
Queen wants You to see the fruits of our labor. That's what the Wraith
28:34
said to them. Yeah, but then it's it's touched so weird, isn't
28:38
it. It's touched on very briefly when I think weird is talking to the
28:41
Ioway and she's like, oh, we don't know how fast hive ships are
28:45
now, but there was like we never knew how long it was going to
28:51
take. I mean, they did seem to be faster, given that they
28:53
managed to get and again they mentioned it very briefly this episode. The reason
28:57
it's called No Man's Land is because the fight taking place in the space between
29:02
galaxies, which is where they are, which is how like the Dentals was
29:06
able to get there quicker because they kicked in their into galactic drives rather than
29:11
their interstellar drives or whatever it was to catch up to the the Wraith faster,
29:15
and the Wraith had to stop for a little while and stuff nature.
29:19
Yeah, I actually I had never heard that this explanation before. So because
29:23
they're organic in nature, they need to like basically cool down from the effects
29:27
of radiation and sort of like cleanse themselves ship. I think we spoke about
29:32
that maybe when either Craig was here, or maybe when Jacob was here and
29:34
we asked, yeah, if that was something that you had kind of heard
29:37
before, and you were like nope, Well the explanation or even just there
29:41
the idea that the organic in nature, I don't think i'd ever I think
29:45
just because they look like a ship, like they look you know, they
29:47
look they look like an organic creature from the outside, But I didn't actually
29:49
think that they were. I just thought that was because the aesthetics of a
29:52
wraith, you know, wraith architects and engineers, they're just mental. Yeah,
29:56
really good wraith cocaine. Yeah, they're like Gouie ship. Yeah,
30:00
yeah, absolutely, it's some more gooey shit. Yeah it is. It's
30:03
interesting though, Yeah, yeah, I just I think they really could have
30:07
doubled down on that, the fact that we were in the space between the
30:11
galaxies and the speed of the wraith, because yeah, it's like, I
30:15
know, those little pods were kind of keeping them alive, but it's like,
30:18
what were they if? What if what if the trip had taken thirty
30:22
comfortable? Yeah, like what if what if the tripper taken thirty years where
30:26
they have aged thirty years by the time they got they what if the trip
30:27
had taken one hundred years and that's outside you know, human lifespan. Were
30:33
those pods going to keep them alive until they got to Earth and then what
30:36
They're going to go? Push them up against a window and say look at
30:38
us, look you know. Yeah, it was it was a it was
30:41
a stretch, but it gave them something to do. And apparently that was
30:45
Martin Gira's favorite part of the episode was just the cutting back to the pod
30:49
and having McKay and Roanan bicker at each other. Yeah, that was Gira's
30:53
favorite. Party said, you could written whole episode just like that. I
30:56
don't write funny, I wrote annoying because they remember, I think it's the
31:00
end of season one or two. Season one, I think where they had
31:03
they were doing stops to collect they were they were collecting people, doing culling.
31:11
Yeah, is that because I always thought it was because of the hyperdrive
31:14
thing. I'm retroactively putting that out. Yeah, I think that's probably the
31:18
intent. But at the time I think it was maybe like they were making
31:22
stops and it could have been two feed or it could have been just a
31:26
two for one. It's like, well, we have to stop here,
31:27
and we have to make a stop anyway. It's I guess it's like us
31:30
as humans. It's like, well, if you're going to take a rest
31:33
stop when you're driving a long way, you're you gonna stop at one of
31:34
the rest stops where it's just a park bench. You're gonna stop at a
31:37
rest restop where it's a VP where you can get a snickers and a powerade.
31:41
Yeah, So I guess, yeah, And so I guess that's kind
31:44
of the idea with the Wraith is, well, if they've got to stop
31:45
anyway within the Pagasas galaxy, they're going to stop somewhere that they can cull
31:51
and feed and store some some some food in their pods bar, Whereas obviously,
31:56
yeah, in between galaxies, there's nowhere to stop and cull, so
32:00
they just have to stop anywhere and do what they need to do. But
32:01
yeah, I think you're right, there's definitely some retroactivity going on there in
32:06
terms of the how and the why of the stops. Yeah, I just
32:12
like the idea of, like in real time right now in this episode,
32:15
there's a huge ori I attack on the Milky Way. Also two Giant Wraith
32:19
motherships heading to Earth. Yeah, it's very cool. I almost kind of
32:22
wish I mean, this doesn't happen, so it's not a spoiler, but
32:27
the Wraith just enter the Milky Way and the ore I just destroy them.
32:30
Yeah, yeah, that would be And even if it was a little more
32:34
overlap between the first episodes of both seasons in that both of these episodes have
32:40
Wolsey in the SGC. Yes, so it's like, why weren't the rest
32:45
of the IOWA there in last week's episode, like talking to Landry as well,
32:50
like you could have had some really nice and then them dealing with the
32:53
idea, It's like, Okay, if we're going to recall the ZPM,
32:57
is it are we going to put it in the Odyssey of the Dead.
33:00
Are we going to put it in the chair? Like who we protect?
33:01
We've got multiple things coming in. It's like, if you put the ZPM
33:05
in the chair, that only protects our planet from a ship that comes directly
33:08
to our planet with the Wraith is going to do, but it's not going
33:12
to protect us from the Aro, who would just have a bunch of ships
33:15
are just going to fly around and destroy every other planet of all our allies
33:16
and stuff. Like that. So yeah, they could have definitely think added
33:20
some more peril and come up against the Wraith mothership would be pretty sick.
33:25
Yeah, that would be awesome and just see the size comparaisonly. That was
33:29
one of the shots I love the most from this episode was when the dead
33:32
List comes out of hyper Sate and and Caldwell's like, don't wait for my
33:37
order. As soon as you have a target, start firing, and there's
33:38
that big pull away shot and you just see all the all the firepower just
33:42
look like trils. Yeah, and then they say, oh, there's there's
33:45
Wraith darts are doing, you know, intercepting, and then suddenly you see
33:50
all those explosions not hitting the hive, but you can't even see the darts.
33:54
That's how far away you are is you can't even see the darts intercepting
33:59
all those shows. And if you are from that far away, you're like,
34:00
well, how do they have ten Like literally, do they have tendrils?
34:04
Y? Yeah? Connected to their ship? Did they come out and
34:07
try and grab you? Yeah? It looks so cool. The shot where
34:09
it followed the drones and you were sort of like through, yeah, you're
34:14
kind of following one, but then it would zip over to another and seat
34:15
of ancient drones are so cool. Yeah, and the ship never seems to
34:20
be getting closer, And I'm like, I don't think we're following this all
34:22
the way through until it hits the ship or hits the shield or anything like
34:24
that, because that seems like this is going to be a two minute shot
34:28
if that's the case. But it was still just a really cool shot,
34:30
something different we've never seen in the show before, same as the shot that
34:32
zoomed in to find Shepherd on the three oh two on the side of the
34:37
hive. I think it's one of the first times it really gave a sense
34:39
of just y fucking big the lives are. Yeah, Yeah, I really
34:44
like that. Yeah, really really sure like that in there. Yeah,
34:46
there's a new production company doing all that CGI stuff for them, they mentioned,
34:53
Yeah, very impressed. Commentary speaking, we spoke about the Queen before,
34:59
just had a note here she calls him Michael, do you reckon that's
35:04
a sledge? Yeah, I'm going to call you the name that the humans
35:07
gave you, Michael. I guess yeah, because she was talking about how
35:09
she has she can smell the human on you or something. Yeah, so
35:13
yeah, because it's like a descent. Yeah, because race don't have names
35:17
that we know about. Yeah, that's true. Yeah, Yeah, that's
35:22
interesting. It's funny that she used that, Yeah, that he told her
35:27
that, Michael. I wonder, yeah, I wonder if that was intentional.
35:30
I wonder if that was just like you just felt like that the way
35:34
she as an actress chose to say the name. I was like, I
35:36
wonder if that's like a bit of it. See the pickure, the mention
35:39
of his name. I picked up and I heard it a little differently.
35:44
She's not helpful, Michael. Fine, I believe you, Michael, but
35:52
know this, if you're not telling the truth, I will find out because
35:55
I'm smart and you aren't. Studio. What do you love that one?
36:01
Mad he made something? I just the way Shepherd says, Michael just reminds
36:08
me of Jackie from that Michael, Michael, Yeah, his own sledge,
36:14
just like well, that's all we named him too. It's like his son.
36:15
Yeah, Michael, not helpful, Michael, and I know that.
36:21
The queen still being very rape at the end of it was oh yeah,
36:25
the virus didn't work on it? Yeah, oh yeah, he said,
36:29
I didn't work on females. We could have told me this, I just
36:31
thought of it shut up exactly right. So I know that was a good
36:38
turn, a good shock moment for the audience and for the characters obviously,
36:42
but it would have been like as much before we got there then like walking
36:45
through the ship and then here's what's going on. They turn around and see
36:49
one of the wraith guys with his long elf hair and he's just got a
36:52
human face and just like so oblivious. And then it's like, yeah,
36:54
come on, come this way, buddy. I know you got no memory,
36:57
but what's going on? Just to shift you often to hear, but
37:00
a neat way to kind of take out of hive. Come this way,
37:04
boom straight in the back of the head, Nazi style next week. But
37:09
I wonder like if they would have landed on the ship, and I mean,
37:13
it would have indicated there was still a wraith around, or maybe that
37:15
certain wraiths turned before other ones did. If they would have landed been beamed
37:20
into one particular room and there were human human wraths, humans lying around that
37:27
had been sucked, you know, been been fed on, and you're like,
37:30
oh shit, well this is clearly working. The wraiths we're getting desperate
37:34
or something. But you know, then are you doing that? I guess
37:37
at the expense that the queen is still the queen and didn't turn human as
37:42
we as we would have hoped. And it's good to have like limitations on
37:45
this virus. Otherwise it could just be a matter of yeah, they just
37:47
drop one of those viruses and every single hive ship and the wraiths are done
37:51
for Yeah, it's like, well they don't work on the queens, and
37:52
the queens are kind of the most important a partner way, so so shitter
37:58
in the head. I did find it quite surprising once the dadalist had kind
38:04
of been knocked out and they were doing the d damage control. I feel
38:08
like that's the most calm McKay has ever been in a crisis situation. Like
38:14
at no point, like he was still like, yes, I know,
38:16
I'm getting a oxygen mask, but he was just he wasn't like screaming and
38:22
frantic and spitting and all that kind of stuff. He was just very like,
38:25
we're doing this, this, this, this, this, give me
38:28
everybody if you took shop in high school, blah blah blah blah blah blah
38:30
blah. I was like that's a It kind of reminds me of like five
38:36
I Serenity, like wash. When like shit's fine, he's like wires cracking
38:40
and weird and crazy, and then when stuff gets really serious, he just
38:44
gets really quiet and really focused. He's like I'm a leaf on the wind,
38:46
and I'm like, I feel like that should be McKay. Like the
38:49
more intense things get, the calmer he gets. But then he just blows
38:52
up deluxe because someone ate his sandwich. Like I kind of wish they'd lean
38:58
more into that. That would have been, But that's what I mean.
39:00
It's good for he's the most developed character in the entire series. Yeah,
39:05
based on where we see him from SG one two now and then the end
39:07
of the Atlantis. Yeah he's Cordelia. Yeah, and when he's annoying,
39:12
but I understand like where they found he's always annoying them. Yeah, I
39:15
know, obviously, but like when he when he's like in this he gets
39:19
the oxygen packs and he's like, oh sweet, how many of these I've
39:21
got like twenty, but we got two hundred people in the ship. He's
39:22
like, okay, well, clearly, like the smartest, most helpful people
39:25
are going to need this the same more level headed. Yes, I am
39:29
one of them, And I'm like, yeah, you are you sofer bitch,
39:30
like obviously we need you to be fully oxygenated. And I get it,
39:36
mate, but why did you have to point that out? Like someone
39:37
else could have went, Rodney, you need this. He's like, are
39:40
you sure? Am I taking this off a woman or a child? Are
39:43
you sure that it's me? He's just like, obviously give it to me.
39:45
We've got nineteen left. I don't know what to tell you. It
39:49
was a cool battle. That was a very very very very cool battle.
39:52
They took off the bay of where the dart's coming out of and yeah,
39:58
boom boom boom, boom boom, And that was sort of like the last
40:00
moment with like okay then out turning all their attention to you or whatever,
40:04
like it was just that was that was a cool moment. Let's like multiple
40:07
multiple explosions that we were actually doing some damage rather than just like little bits
40:10
and pieces here and there and getting lucky. Yeah, it was definitely a
40:14
peak sci fi battle. Sorry, sir, we did our best. I'm
40:25
going to apologize for a major Bring all real guests. The parent, bring
40:29
his whole fire until I give the order channel every we have a power to
40:30
the forward shield and tell that I have a context sele ray ship possibly a
40:35
transport. Just let the hiven is not a course for us. It's broadcasting
40:38
a calm on our frequencies. What the hell do they want? Maybe they
40:40
weren't surrender, not likely, let's hear it. This is Colonel John Sheppard
40:45
and syndication code out with seven Tanka three. Please restaurant, open a channel,
40:52
Colonel Shepherd, we'd written you off. Get all emotional on me.
40:55
Now. Look I got McKay ronan and Michael of Border Ring Transfer Michael.
41:00
Yes, sir, he's got a plan. I think you're gonna like it.
41:01
Probably won't be long before they start shooting at us. Hide. Just
41:05
open fire on the transport, sir. Eaming directly to the bridge. That's
41:19
one down. Can we take the other? Three? I try. We're
41:25
gonna stop shields, bone shields and down to fifteen percent. Wouldn't this be
41:30
a good time to club the cooking systems fry until you republic to weapons.
41:35
We're going to fight our way out of this. It's the clean up,
41:53
sir. They're here, we're read held a commander warm on screen. I
41:59
can't believe it's going It's fantastic. I was waiting for the transitions back and
42:04
absolutely not swing up another minute something like that. There was going to be
42:12
a payoff for the end. No, absolutely, the payoff was just I'd
42:15
tell you what though. The transition seamless that very well. Even the scores
42:17
is like there was no there was no big edit points. I actually felt
42:21
like cold Well sounded like Seth McFarland. I thought you're going to do all
42:25
yeah, holy ship, this is an Allville thing. Yeah yeah, yeah,
42:30
no I could have done that. Then if you go back to the
42:32
start and you're like, because I actually thought it was Seth McFarlan, cold
42:36
Well was really yeah, me too. So we did our best I thing
42:47
to apologize for the major bring all real guts and bear the main dark base,
42:51
hold fire until I give you order. I don't hear it. I
42:53
can, I can a little bit for sure. Yeah wait yeah, And
42:57
because that's right because I'm wearing my Allville Seth tricks t shirt. Very good.
43:01
It gets it. It's it's like, you know, the the child
43:06
last week, what's the that's you? Sneaky one in behind the border.
43:09
It's a Star Trekky shirt. Yeah, but it's so yeah, and it's
43:14
allowed thee Yeah. Yeah, yeah, he's a that Yeah. Wow,
43:20
that we played more than that. I thought I thought you guys would have
43:22
liked something else happen else. I thought you were just going to go in
43:25
and out of maybe going to throw into like a Star Wars one and then
43:28
we're gonna come back and there's like something from Escape or some ship. I
43:31
don't know. I just found a fantastic battle from Deep Space nine and play
43:35
that. Yeah. I mean there's a great crossover there because the leader of
43:40
the Jani what's his name, the guy that got blown up, you know,
43:44
the main guy what's his name? One of those eating the fruit the
43:49
other guy yeah yeah, yeah, not Redeem, the other one, Redemption.
43:55
Yeah. Anyway, that he O'Brien from Next Generation Brian. Yeah,
44:00
he was in that. He was in that battle. Can we get it?
44:05
We're gonna have to. And then I got away with a bunch last
44:09
week, so it's fine, rape no, no. A couple of little
44:22
triviay housekeeping little bits. Uh. This episode is the first time Taylor calls
44:27
were Elizabeth. They're on a first name basis. Now what else is boring?
44:32
You're in charge. I'm pretty sure that's illegal to put her in charge.
44:37
Yeah, I feel like I feel like, well, she's the only
44:38
other one wearing a red shirt. So yeah, they're like, well I
44:42
got to do it. And something I thought was cool is the weir Landry
44:45
zoom chat was a live feed because the studios are just across the walkway from
44:52
each other. They in real life, so they had Landry in the SGC,
44:55
they had We're in Atlanta's operations and set up a live video chat so
45:00
they're actually talking live by those video cameras, so they could actually play off
45:04
each other. That's cool, and neither one of them had to deal with
45:06
like a pre recorded message. Yeah, yeah, that's awesome. Yeah I
45:09
hate how they I mean, they have to do it in a lot of
45:13
instances, but when yeah, TV movies have to do that, and like
45:15
you're just playing off like your own reactions and it's like after the editor to
45:17
try and pick the best one that matches someone else's take five or five and
45:21
take fourteen, and that's actually really cool. It's like, yeah, yeah,
45:25
going to happen again. We're two TV shows are kind of talking to
45:29
each other in the same lot, same franchise essentially, especially like yeah,
45:36
yeah, like it's literally like the walkway between their two buildings is like a
45:40
stargate. Like basically they're just like talking through it. Yeah. Yeah,
45:45
that's crazy. It's very cool. Yeah. I can't think of another instance
45:47
where that. Imagine the shot like the back of one of the sets is
45:51
the stargate. Yeah. Both, so like when they do a transition,
45:53
not walking through the gate, if like Weir goes back to thee and they
45:58
actually cut through the giant all between their sets, like, oh my god,
46:01
they come on, they go. Do you know that wasn't a special
46:04
effect? She went across galaxies like one. Yeah, just a little bit.
46:12
I need to change. That's all nice, and we never did.
46:17
But you know, I can't think of another show like that would be set
46:21
up like that. It would be a show and a spinoff running side by
46:23
side, two studios next to each other, talking to two characters from their
46:30
their own sets. Yeah, live, Yeah, that's crazy. Yeah,
46:34
that's so cool. Occasionally you find those fun bits of trivia online where they
46:37
say that you know, one I swear it was like at one stage,
46:44
like Samuel l Jackson is Nick Fury maybe and in Iron Man two doing that
46:50
the donuts scene or something like that, like he was dressed up. He's
46:52
in a diner or something. But nearby they were filming Breaking Bad at one
46:57
of the the Gus Frings chicken joints, and Samuel Jackson loved Breaking Bad.
47:01
He's like, can I cameo? Basically it's Nick Fury. He was just
47:05
going to be in a trench coat sitting in the back of one of the
47:07
palace Omnos or whatever it was. And yeah, probably not with the eye
47:10
patch though on the nose or something. That's cool. And they never did,
47:16
never did. That's a shame. Whips who do you think that was
47:21
MCU, No doubt I would have said not of that. Probably do you
47:27
think it took off the eye patch and just walked down the other side.
47:29
They couldn't stop. It wouldn't break Breaking Bad. He's Sam Jackson. Yeah,
47:35
yeah, I think overall a good finale, but average episode overall,
47:38
but a good a good ending to the finale of last season. But I
47:44
mean cool cool c G I but I mean I just yeah, it's open
47:49
ended. Yeah, like there's obviously still a lot to deal with next week,
47:53
like next episode with the all the human Wraith and all that shit going
47:58
on. So yeah, it's kind of I wish it we've done it as
48:00
a two parter, but it made sense to do it this way. So
48:04
yeah. But also the Orion died blew up, right, we no longer
48:08
have the ancient ship. Yeah, it's gone. So that's a shame.
48:12
Yeah, it's a shame. I guess they never could were going to hold
48:15
onto that. Yeah. I don't think did they do a shot of it
48:20
blowing up. It was just like where they just beamed. It was like
48:23
we've done a weekend here, let's get out of here. So yeah,
48:25
we only had it for like an episode and a bit because it was like
48:29
it was what it's called Inferno, the second Last Allies, and then it's
48:37
gone. It did look cool though, way when it was like going into
48:40
the hyperspace. Yeah, yeah, because it kind of had a bit more
48:45
dimension than the Aura because it looked like the Origins look like a big dog
48:49
ship, whereas at least this had like the little flared out engines on the
48:52
side and a few of the bits and pieces. Never I just feel like
48:55
I just love those drones as a weapon so much and the sound effects,
49:02
so it's just a shame we don't get more of that. Yeah. Yeah,
49:07
they definitely use drones sparingly. I guess because there's such an unbeatle weapon.
49:12
They're just like, well all the time. It's true. All right,
49:14
this episode two hundred and thirty Stargate Atlantis season three, underway back in
49:20
the I mean, I know, we're just just saying that there was we
49:22
wanted to do maybe a part two? Do we are we returning to Pegasus
49:24
next week? Did like cap off on like a pseudo part two? Or
49:29
we going back to SG one? I mean I have I have no strong
49:32
feelings either way. All right, what do you guys want to do?
49:36
I mean we're doing so I'm happy to just go back to sounds good one.
49:39
All right, ughm orpheus. All right, get into Geek, get
49:45
into Gate, get into Gate Stargate podcast, get into it now before it's
49:52
too late.