Latest / Podcasts By Donna Jodhan / Remarkable World Commentary Episode #113: Interview with Shaun Kelly, Pottery Instructor, SoKo Pottery Studio

Transcript

Remarkable World Commentary Episode #113: Interview with Shaun Kelly, Pottery Instructor, SoKo Pottery Studio · Podcasts By Donna Jodhan

• 0:12
  Podcast Commentator: Greetings. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP,
• 0:17
  Podcast Commentator: and MBA invites you to listen to her bi-weekly podcast,
• 0:22
  Podcast Commentator: Remarkable World Commentary. Here, Donna shares some of her innermost thoughts,
• 0:27
  Podcast Commentator: insights, perspectives, and more with her listeners.
• 0:31
  Podcast Commentator: Donna focuses on topics that directly affect the future of kids,
• 0:35
  Podcast Commentator: especially kids with disabilities. Donna is a blind advocate,
• 0:40
  Podcast Commentator: author, sight loss coach, dinner mystery producer, writer,
• 0:45
  Podcast Commentator: entrepreneur, law graduate, and podcast commentator.
• 0:50
  Podcast Commentator: She has decades of lived experiences, knowledge, skills,
• 0:54
  Podcast Commentator: and expertise in access, technology, and information.
• 0:58
  Podcast Commentator: As someone who has been internationally recognized for her work and roles,
• 1:02
  Podcast Commentator: she just wants to make things better than possible.
• 1:07
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Hello, everyone,
• 1:09
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: and welcome to another episode of The Remarkable World Commentary.
• 1:15
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I'm Donna J. Jodhan, a lifelong disability advocate,
• 1:21
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: and one who sees the world mainly through sound, touch,
• 1:26
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: and stubborn optimism.
• 1:29
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I am a law graduate, an accessibility consultant, author,
• 1:35
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: lifelong barrier buster who also happens to be blind.
• 1:40
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: You may know me from a few headline moments, as in November of 2010,
• 1:47
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I won the landmark Charter case that forced the Canadian government to make its
• 1:52
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: websites accessible to every Canadian, not just to sighted ones.
• 1:59
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: And in July of 2019,
• 2:01
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I co-led the Accessible Canada Act with more than two dozen
• 2:07
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: disability groups to turn equal access into federal law.
• 2:13
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: And most recently, on June the 3rd, 2022,
• 2:19
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I was greatly humbled by Her Late Majesty's Platinum Jubilee Award for
• 2:25
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: tireless commitment to the removal of barriers.
• 2:30
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: When I'm not in a courtroom or in a committee room or in a
• 2:35
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: pottery studio,
• 2:37
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: you'll find me coaching kids with vision loss,
• 2:42
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: producing audio mysteries,
• 2:45
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: or helping tech companies to make their gadgets talk back in plain
• 2:51
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: language.
• 2:53
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Everything I do circles one goal,
• 2:56
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: and that is to turn accessibility from an afterthought into everyday practice.
• 3:03
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I invite you to think of this show as our shared workbench,
• 3:08
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: where policy meets lived experience and lived experience
• 3:14
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: sparks fresh ideas.
• 3:17
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Now, before we jump into today's conversation,
• 3:21
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: let me shine a quick spotlight on today's guest,
• 3:26
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: a changemaker whose work is every bit as remarkable as the
• 3:32
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: world that we are trying to build.
• 3:35
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I am absolutely pleased and excited to welcome my pottery instructor,
• 3:41
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Shaun Kelly. Welcome, Shaun,
• 3:44
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: to the Remarkable World Commentary podcast.
• 3:49
  Shaun Kelly: Thank you very much, Donna, for having me today. It's been a long time coming,
• 3:52
  Shaun Kelly: and I'm excited to be part of the program.
• 3:57
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: You changed my life when we met.
• 3:59
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: You have forced me to stretch my imagination and to use my
• 4:05
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: imagination,
• 4:07
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: based on the functional vision I had before I lost it,
• 4:13
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: to develop pieces, to create,
• 4:15
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: and there's no limit to what we've been able to do over the last few years.
• 4:21
  Shaun Kelly: Exactly. And that's the beauty of pottery, is it's a metaphor for life.
• 4:27
  Shaun Kelly: We're always evolving, adapting, growing.
• 4:32
  Shaun Kelly: The only time you lose is when you say, "I can't do it."
• 4:36
  Shaun Kelly: You gotta push through, right? And we gotta find a way to do it.
• 4:41
  Shaun Kelly: And that's the beauty, is both you and myself, I've learned how to express,
• 4:45
  Shaun Kelly: to communicate, to look and... I shouldn't say to look at things differently,
• 4:49
  Shaun Kelly: to hear things differently, to feel things differently.
• 4:53
  Shaun Kelly: To express things differently.
• 4:55
  Shaun Kelly: Just because there's one way, a common way,
• 4:59
  Shaun Kelly: doesn't mean there's several other ways that might even be better.
• 5:03
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Absolutely.
• 5:05
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: So Shaun, I would like to start right at the beginning,
• 5:10
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: long before any of this was your work.
• 5:15
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Tell me how clay first turned up in your life,
• 5:21
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: and what happened in that very first class that made you want to
• 5:27
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: come back the following week?
• 5:31
  Shaun Kelly: Yeah, so I was very fortunate that my mom, she always had a love for pottery.
• 5:37
  Shaun Kelly: And she said, "Come, come, come." And it was like, "Yes,
• 5:41
  Shaun Kelly: I'm coming. I'm gonna be there."
• 5:43
  Shaun Kelly: And then during that first class, you could build, right?
• 5:48
  Shaun Kelly: You could build, you could create. You had the freedom to do what you wanted to do.
• 5:53
  Shaun Kelly: And you literally had the tools in front of you to accomplish whatever that vision
• 5:57
  Shaun Kelly: was.
• 5:59
  Shaun Kelly: And doing this in a shared space, a group space,
• 6:03
  Shaun Kelly: it had a lovely community feel. You got to meet people.
• 6:07
  Shaun Kelly: You got to talk with people. And you learned from everybody.
• 6:13
  Shaun Kelly: And from that first time, it was just like a lovely,
• 6:16
  Shaun Kelly: humble family safe space
• 6:21
  Shaun Kelly: that you could create anything you wanted in.
• 6:24
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Now, was she a potter? Was your mom a potter?
• 6:27
  Shaun Kelly: Yeah, she was.
• 6:29
  Shaun Kelly: She loved the pottery. She collected it first.
• 6:33
  Shaun Kelly: And then she started to be a potter,
• 6:35
  Shaun Kelly: and then both my brother and myself got involved.
• 6:39
  Shaun Kelly: But I got hooked hard.
• 6:42
  Shaun Kelly: I took it even further than just the therapeutic side,
• 6:46
  Shaun Kelly: the hobby side. I went on to do it more professionally.
• 6:50
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Oh,
• 6:52
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: okay.
• 6:53
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Now, you made a big turn in your life from working with
• 7:00
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: technology to working with clay,
• 7:03
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: and I know something about turns like that,
• 7:07
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: because I have made a few of my very own.
• 7:11
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Walk me through how that turn actually happened for you.
• 7:17
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Not the tidy version, but the real one.
• 7:23
  Shaun Kelly: Exactly. So it was a big decision, right?
• 7:26
  Shaun Kelly: When you pivot, when you change your career, your field of study,
• 7:32
  Shaun Kelly: it's a big, big life-changing moment.
• 7:35
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: It is. It is.
• 7:36
  Shaun Kelly: And for me, it was
• 7:39
  Shaun Kelly: slowly building. In my corporate life, in the life as a programmer,
• 7:46
  Shaun Kelly: there was no leaving the building for lunch.
• 7:49
  Shaun Kelly: No going to the gym.
• 7:52
  Shaun Kelly: I was always on call, even on weekends.
• 7:55
  Shaun Kelly: You had to be within an hour
• 7:58
  Shaun Kelly: on call all the time. So I couldn't go afar.
• 8:02
  Shaun Kelly: I couldn't go on vacations,
• 8:05
  Shaun Kelly: and it really took a heavy toll on my life in terms of my health.
• 8:11
  Shaun Kelly: Right? So I had money, right? I had a lovely career,
• 8:15
  Shaun Kelly: but I had no time to spend it or to actually enjoy it.
• 8:19
  Shaun Kelly: And it got to the point where I was 350 pounds.
• 8:25
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Oh, my lord.
• 8:26
  Shaun Kelly: It was just like, "What happened?"
• 8:30
  Shaun Kelly: So it was like, my doctor said, "You have to make a life choice.
• 8:33
  Shaun Kelly: You have to decide," right? "What are you gonna do?"
• 8:37
  Shaun Kelly: And I chose a life, a healthy life.
• 8:41
  Shaun Kelly: And that's what pottery gave me.
• 8:45
  Shaun Kelly: Mentally, physically, it gave me that healthy lifestyle,
• 8:49
  Shaun Kelly: that balance, right? That I think a lot of people need.
• 8:53
  Shaun Kelly: Right? And all of us, like myself in my early days,
• 8:57
  Shaun Kelly: I was just running, running, running, trying to get to the finish line,
• 9:01
  Shaun Kelly: trying to make the buck.
• 9:04
  Shaun Kelly: And I don't think that's what life was for me.
• 9:08
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah, I can empathize with that.
• 9:11
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: My goodness.
• 9:13
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I still remember how clumsy my own hands felt the
• 9:19
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: first time [laughs] that I tried to center a lump of clay,
• 9:24
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: and I doubt that you were born knowing how to do, either.
• 9:30
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Take me back to when the wheel was still new to you.
• 9:35
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: What did you do over and over and again to get from
• 9:41
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: clumsy to steady?
• 9:43
  Shaun Kelly: Exactly. And you're completely right.
• 9:46
  Shaun Kelly: I was not a natural on the wheel by any means.
• 9:51
  Shaun Kelly: I was very clumsy on the wheel.
• 9:55
  Shaun Kelly: Trying to figure it out. And part of it is
• 10:01
  Shaun Kelly: trying to center yourself
• 10:04
  Shaun Kelly: so you can center the clay.
• 10:07
  Shaun Kelly: So sometimes if you have a bad day, if you're distracted,
• 10:10
  Shaun Kelly: if you can't focus,
• 10:12
  Shaun Kelly: that can really throw off the work you're trying to do on the wheel.
• 10:18
  Shaun Kelly: So for me, I took a whole summer and I said to myself,
• 10:22
  Shaun Kelly: "I'm gonna throw a bowl. I'm gonna make a bowl."
• 10:27
  Shaun Kelly: And if I didn't, I'd scrap it and try again.
• 10:31
  Shaun Kelly: And I just kept telling myself, "You know what? I can make a bowl.
• 10:35
  Shaun Kelly: I can make a mug. I can make a cylinder."
• 10:38
  Shaun Kelly: And I didn't give up. I just kept pursuing that.
• 10:43
  Shaun Kelly: And I got closer and closer and closer until finally I achieved it,
• 10:48
  Shaun Kelly: where by the end of that summer I could sit down,
• 10:51
  Shaun Kelly: and say I wanted to make a bowl and I would make that bowl.
• 10:57
  Shaun Kelly: And like you say, it's the repetition, the practice.
• 11:01
  Shaun Kelly: A lot of it is muscle memory.
• 11:04
  Shaun Kelly: So even for me now, I'll close my eyes and use my hands to feel the clay
• 11:11
  Shaun Kelly: to reassure myself that, yes, I can do it.
• 11:15
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I guess you know how much I detest the wheel, don't you?
• 11:19
  Shaun Kelly: [laughs] I hear you.
• 11:23
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: But I—
• 11:23
  Shaun Kelly: But sometimes we can't let it get the better of us.
• 11:27
  Shaun Kelly: And it's a tough journey, I have to admit.
• 11:30
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Well, I think that one of these days I will say, "Okay,
• 11:33
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: wheel, I'm coming," you know? But right now...
• 11:36
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: yeah. No, but I think you're right, absolutely right.
• 11:41
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Wow.
• 11:42
  Shaun Kelly: And when you get it, the success, that achievement,
• 11:46
  Shaun Kelly: like, "Yes, I've done it,"
• 11:49
  Shaun Kelly: it's really worth it. Yep.
• 11:51
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I'll keep that in mind for my New Year resolution. How's that?
• 11:55
  Shaun Kelly: Wonderful.
• 11:59
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Now, almost every potter I know can name the one
• 12:06
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: teacher who got them started, and for me,
• 12:10
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: that person changed everything.
• 12:14
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: You called Pauline Harman your teacher.
• 12:19
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: What did she do in a class that you still catch
• 12:24
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: yourself doing with your own students today?
• 12:29
  Shaun Kelly: Yeah. So Pauline Harman was my first teacher,
• 12:32
  Shaun Kelly: my first official pottery teacher. And she was a hand builder.
• 12:36
  Shaun Kelly: So as a hand builder, it's like baking,
• 12:39
  Shaun Kelly: where you roll out a piece of clay to create like a sheet of clay.
• 12:45
  Shaun Kelly: And she would have wonderful projects and templates every week.
• 12:50
  Shaun Kelly: So she'd have like a mug, a bowl, a vase,
• 12:54
  Shaun Kelly: as something that you would be able to cut out
• 12:57
  Shaun Kelly: and to create and to form into a vase or a bowl.
• 13:01
  Shaun Kelly: And what was wonderful about it is even though you got the template,
• 13:06
  Shaun Kelly: the basic shape of it, you could then design it.
• 13:10
  Shaun Kelly: You could add texture to it. You could add creative elements to it.
• 13:14
  Shaun Kelly: You could make it your own.
• 13:16
  Shaun Kelly: And even today,
• 13:17
  Shaun Kelly: I try to focus on projects and templates in my formal classes this way,
• 13:23
  Shaun Kelly: because it's a great way for someone just starting out to find it approachable,
• 13:30
  Shaun Kelly: right? Because sometimes it can be overwhelming.
• 13:33
  Shaun Kelly: All these new tools, all these new materials,
• 13:37
  Shaun Kelly: everything is so different in the beginning.
• 13:39
  Shaun Kelly: But as soon as you can just create or start creating a form,
• 13:44
  Shaun Kelly: you know you can do the rest, that the rest will come together.
• 13:50
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: But I think the approach that you and I have adopted is one where we use our
• 13:56
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: imagination to say, "Well, what are we gonna do?"
• 13:59
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: It's not necessarily templates. I mean, you offer me templates,
• 14:03
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: but it's all about imagining and visualizing and going from there,
• 14:09
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: right?
• 14:10
  Shaun Kelly: Exactly. So you can add to them, right? You can add elements to the template.
• 14:15
  Shaun Kelly: You can carve the template. Right?
• 14:18
  Shaun Kelly: That's just the beginning.
• 14:21
  Shaun Kelly: And then after that, everyone has a different piece.
• 14:24
  Shaun Kelly: Every piece is unique and one of a kind.
• 14:27
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Right, right, right.
• 14:30
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Now, you call Sandi Dunkelman your mentor.
• 14:37
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: And to be a mentor is a very different thing from being a teacher.
• 14:44
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: What has she given you that no class you could ever
• 14:49
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: have signed up for
• 14:52
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: would have given you?
• 14:56
  Shaun Kelly: Yeah. So
• 14:58
  Shaun Kelly: my friends and everyone else, they like to say that I won the jackpot
• 15:04
  Shaun Kelly: when Sandi Dunkelman became my mentor.
• 15:08
  Shaun Kelly: Because it was just like a perfect match.
• 15:12
  Shaun Kelly: Right? And she's an incredible thrower.
• 15:15
  Shaun Kelly: Very determined, very driven,
• 15:19
  Shaun Kelly: a perfectionist, a woman who speaks her mind.
• 15:23
  Shaun Kelly: And it was just perfection.
• 15:26
  Shaun Kelly: I mean, it allowed me to have direction and guidance.
• 15:32
  Shaun Kelly: Right? So as she threw every week, and as she created items,
• 15:36
  Shaun Kelly: whether it be a lidded sugar dish
• 15:39
  Shaun Kelly: or a salad bowl, I would follow along,
• 15:42
  Shaun Kelly: and I would learn all the steps all the way along.
• 15:48
  Shaun Kelly: So she could do it all, and I learned as much as I could from her.
• 15:52
  Shaun Kelly: I was like a dry sponge.
• 15:55
  Shaun Kelly: Anything she was willing to do, I was willing to do with her.
• 16:00
  Shaun Kelly: So that created just a very natural roadmap of what I needed to do
• 16:06
  Shaun Kelly: and how to do it. And it was in a cooperative space.
• 16:10
  Shaun Kelly: So along the way, we would learn.
• 16:12
  Shaun Kelly: She would show me how to load and unload kilns. How to make glazes.
• 16:17
  Shaun Kelly: How to set up a sale, how to run a sale.
• 16:21
  Shaun Kelly: Everything that involved the studio,
• 16:24
  Shaun Kelly: she knew how to do.
• 16:26
  Shaun Kelly: And it was just wonderful. So coming and going, it was a friendship,
• 16:32
  Shaun Kelly: a lifelong friendship.
• 16:34
  Shaun Kelly: And we would have lunch together. We would share stories.
• 16:38
  Shaun Kelly: And we would be there for each other. And it was way beyond just making pottery,
• 16:44
  Shaun Kelly: right? A sense of community. Being
• 16:47
  Shaun Kelly: almost a family.
• 16:50
  Shaun Kelly: And it's that support outside of pottery that was very,
• 16:54
  Shaun Kelly: very helpful,
• 16:55
  Shaun Kelly: especially when transitioning from a career of IT project manager
• 17:00
  Shaun Kelly: to pottery.
• 17:02
  Shaun Kelly: To have that mentor was priceless.
• 17:05
  Shaun Kelly: And above all, she also had a critical eye.
• 17:09
  Shaun Kelly: She speaked her mind and the truth.
• 17:12
  Shaun Kelly: So if it was a hard truth I needed, it was a hard truth I got.
• 17:17
  Shaun Kelly: So
• 17:19
  Shaun Kelly: it was wonderful. And if you can find a mentor,
• 17:24
  Shaun Kelly: I would take it. Take it in a heartbeat.
• 17:28
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: But that was quite a switch though, from IT to pottery.
• 17:32
  Shaun Kelly: It was a huge switch. And it was one that
• 17:36
  Shaun Kelly: my health needed. My health, my body, my soul,
• 17:41
  Shaun Kelly: it needed that change. It needed that reflection.
• 17:45
  Shaun Kelly: And it made the world of difference.
• 17:48
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Wow.
• 17:50
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Now I'm just sitting here thinking of my own self.
• 17:53
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I mean,
• 17:55
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I don't know. [laughs] Let's move on. [laughs]
• 17:57
  Shaun Kelly: Okay. [laughs]
• 17:59
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: People assume that someone who worked with computers and
• 18:05
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: someone who works with clay have nothing in common.
• 18:10
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: And I have never, ever believed that for a second.
• 18:14
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Tell me about one way of thinking you carried out of your
• 18:20
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: years in technology that still shapes how you run
• 18:26
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: a class today. And walk me through it in action.
• 18:32
  Shaun Kelly: Definitely. As a programmer,
• 18:35
  Shaun Kelly: it was very logical. You had inputs, you had processes,
• 18:40
  Shaun Kelly: and you had output.
• 18:42
  Shaun Kelly: Right? Everything was very clear. And so it was the same idea.
• 18:47
  Shaun Kelly: In a structured class, I could break down the process of a piece.
• 18:52
  Shaun Kelly: Right? It could be the demonstration, right?
• 18:56
  Shaun Kelly: Where it would be step one, we would roll out the clay.
• 19:00
  Shaun Kelly: Right?
• 19:01
  Shaun Kelly: Step two,
• 19:03
  Shaun Kelly: you would cut the clay to size and maybe wrap it around your form or place it in
• 19:08
  Shaun Kelly: your form.
• 19:10
  Shaun Kelly: Step three would be maybe to assemble it,
• 19:13
  Shaun Kelly: to score and slip and join all the pieces together.
• 19:17
  Shaun Kelly: And step four might be to decorate it, to finish, to finalize it.
• 19:23
  Shaun Kelly: Create that output. So even when it comes to teaching nowadays,
• 19:30
  Shaun Kelly: the week before or the night before, I'll always go through the project myself,
• 19:34
  Shaun Kelly: step by step. I'll time myself.
• 19:38
  Shaun Kelly: And I'll ask myself, "Is it fair
• 19:40
  Shaun Kelly: to say, well, here's half an hour," if it took me a half hour to do?
• 19:46
  Shaun Kelly: Right? So I know it might be it's an hour I'll give people,
• 19:51
  Shaun Kelly: right? If it took me 30 minutes, they'll get an hour,
• 19:55
  Shaun Kelly: just because of the time needed. So being able to break it down logically,
• 20:01
  Shaun Kelly: to look at the pieces and just figure out how we get from beginning to end,
• 20:08
  Shaun Kelly: that has made the teaching process fundamentally easier.
• 20:13
  Shaun Kelly: I just don't sit there, make it, and say, "Okay, guys,
• 20:16
  Shaun Kelly: good job. You go do it."
• 20:19
  Shaun Kelly: Right? We'll go step by step. And along the way,
• 20:22
  Shaun Kelly: we try to make it easier for people.
• 20:25
  Shaun Kelly: And everybody has a different way of doing things.
• 20:29
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah.
• 20:30
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: That's very true. I'm
• 20:33
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: listening carefully as you're saying this. I mean,
• 20:37
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: as a programmer, isn't it step by step as well?
• 20:40
  Shaun Kelly: Exactly.
• 20:42
  Shaun Kelly: So carrying that along and logically.
• 20:46
  Shaun Kelly: And then if we do run into a problem, right,
• 20:48
  Shaun Kelly: it would then come back to the beginning and asking a similar question and getting
• 20:52
  Shaun Kelly: a different direction. So being able to think about things logically
• 20:57
  Shaun Kelly: has really, really helped. Even that creative side,
• 21:02
  Shaun Kelly: right, to be able to come back to somebody and say,
• 21:04
  Shaun Kelly: "Well, which path would they take? Which direction would they go in?"
• 21:09
  Shaun Kelly: Rather than just throwing ideas out.
• 21:15
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I want you to teach my listeners something right now.
• 21:21
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Someone out there has never touched clay and is
• 21:26
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: quietly picturing complete disaster.
• 21:33
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: So talk them through exactly what your hands do in the first
• 21:39
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: minute with a lump of clay the way you would talk me through
• 21:45
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: standing at the wheel.
• 21:50
  Shaun Kelly: Yep, exactly. So in the beginning, we wanna make you as comfortable as possible.
• 21:54
  Shaun Kelly: Right?
• 21:56
  Shaun Kelly: We want you to sit properly, to feel at one with the wheel.
• 22:01
  Shaun Kelly: We don't wanna force you to create something.
• 22:04
  Shaun Kelly: Our goal is to match the clay to the wheel itself.
• 22:10
  Shaun Kelly: To sort of center it.
• 22:12
  Shaun Kelly: And part of this is even easier if you were to close your eyes.
• 22:16
  Shaun Kelly: And often, if your eyes are open,
• 22:19
  Shaun Kelly: you can have an optical illusion as though it's wobbling or that it's not centered.
• 22:25
  Shaun Kelly: But when you just use your hands, when you touch something,
• 22:29
  Shaun Kelly: your hands won't lie to you. Right?
• 22:33
  Shaun Kelly: Which is thankful. Very, very thankful.
• 22:36
  Shaun Kelly: And so we'll try to place the clay on the wheel, centered in the middle.
• 22:42
  Shaun Kelly: And we just spin the wheel.
• 22:43
  Shaun Kelly: Our hands are wet so that we aren't sticking to the clay.
• 22:47
  Shaun Kelly: And we squeeze the clay at the 3:00 and 9:00 positions.
• 22:53
  Shaun Kelly: That's sort of on the left and the right. We squeeze our hands in.
• 22:57
  Shaun Kelly: Sort of cupping the clay.
• 23:00
  Shaun Kelly: And that way the clay gets a sense of it wants to be in the middle.
• 23:05
  Shaun Kelly: It wants to be centered. It wants to be steady.
• 23:09
  Shaun Kelly: Some of the things that I've made a mistake in is I try to push too hard.
• 23:13
  Shaun Kelly: I try to force the clay to be something it doesn't wanna be.
• 23:17
  Shaun Kelly: And it bounces back at me.
• 23:21
  Shaun Kelly: Almost like a speed bump, right? It pushes back.
• 23:25
  Shaun Kelly: So just if I can squeeze my hands and hold them steady,
• 23:29
  Shaun Kelly: the clay will eventually form to your hands.
• 23:33
  Shaun Kelly: So we let the clay and the wheel come to us
• 23:37
  Shaun Kelly: rather than trying to sculpt it into something it doesn't wanna be.
• 23:42
  Shaun Kelly: And so
• 23:43
  Shaun Kelly: the trick is, you'll hear people say this over and over again.
• 23:48
  Shaun Kelly: Center yourself, lock in your arms. Do this, do that.
• 23:51
  Shaun Kelly: But what does it really mean?
• 23:54
  Shaun Kelly: What it means is our body has to be still.
• 23:58
  Shaun Kelly: We have to be able to keep our body from moving.
• 24:02
  Shaun Kelly: So if you find your arms are bouncing or you're rocking back and forth,
• 24:09
  Shaun Kelly: then we're not centered ourselves.
• 24:12
  Shaun Kelly: Then the clay is gonna be rocking back and forth or shifting.
• 24:17
  Shaun Kelly: So once we can squeeze our hands together and hold them steady and our body is
• 24:22
  Shaun Kelly: steady, then that's almost half the battle there.
• 24:27
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Wow. This is so interesting.
• 24:30
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I bet a lot of us don't really think of all this, right?
• 24:35
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Until we're put to the test, right?
• 24:38
  Shaun Kelly: Exactly. And like I say,
• 24:40
  Shaun Kelly: some people will watch videos, and they'll throw out these terms.
• 24:44
  Shaun Kelly: What does it actually mean? It's not until we're on the wheel,
• 24:49
  Shaun Kelly: we're like, "Oh, now I understand. I can feel the way the wheel pushes against me."
• 24:55
  Shaun Kelly: Right? Or the way the clay moves, and how it may go out of control sometimes.
• 25:02
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: But what about for a hand builder like myself, how would you describe that?
• 25:08
  Shaun Kelly: The hand building process?
• 25:09
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yes.
• 25:11
  Shaun Kelly: So I find that very... I try to slow myself down.
• 25:16
  Shaun Kelly: I find it very relaxing.
• 25:18
  Shaun Kelly: So for me,
• 25:20
  Shaun Kelly: I find if I rush it,
• 25:23
  Shaun Kelly: that
• 25:25
  Shaun Kelly: my piece of clay
• 25:27
  Shaun Kelly: is uneven. But very similar to the wheel.
• 25:31
  Shaun Kelly: I try to use a rolling pin.
• 25:33
  Speaker 4: Use a patient mat. Red.
• 25:34
  Shaun Kelly: I'll roll it.
• 25:36
  Shaun Kelly: I call it wiggle, wiggle, wiggle. So I'll put it in the middle.
• 25:40
  Shaun Kelly: Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle. So it's opening up.
• 25:45
  Shaun Kelly: And I'll lift the clay up and do a quarter turn, and I'll wiggle,
• 25:49
  Shaun Kelly: wiggle, wiggle in the middle.
• 25:52
  Shaun Kelly: So the idea is that we're slowly spreading the clay out evenly.
• 25:57
  Shaun Kelly: That quarter turn helps to make it an even spread of expansion.
• 26:02
  Shaun Kelly: As well, it helps to prevent the clay from sticking to the surface itself.
• 26:08
  Shaun Kelly: So the clay, it's wet. It's moist.
• 26:11
  Shaun Kelly: And it wants to stick to the tabletop.
• 26:14
  Shaun Kelly: So if you just keep rolling it, and it's stuck to the tabletop,
• 26:18
  Shaun Kelly: it won't move. It won't get any bigger, right? It won't become even,
• 26:22
  Shaun Kelly: like a nice even sheet of pastry.
• 26:27
  Shaun Kelly: And so the secret for me is that wiggle, wiggle, wiggle three or four times,
• 26:32
  Shaun Kelly: quarter turn rotate.
• 26:34
  Shaun Kelly: I find that I get a lovely even sheet of slab almost every time.
• 26:39
  Shaun Kelly: And for me, it's not a thick sheet of clay or a thin sheet of clay,
• 26:44
  Shaun Kelly: it's that evenness.
• 26:47
  Shaun Kelly: Right? That evenness makes it
• 26:51
  Shaun Kelly: stronger, more durable.
• 26:54
  Shaun Kelly: And it just feels lovely. And so from that very sheet,
• 26:58
  Shaun Kelly: you can create almost anything you want.
• 27:01
  Shaun Kelly: That's the beauty with hand building.
• 27:05
  Shaun Kelly: I think from vases to ornaments to Christmas trees to pumpkins
• 27:11
  Shaun Kelly: to lidded jars.
• 27:13
  Shaun Kelly: Right? It's all just based on a few forms, like a cylinder,
• 27:18
  Shaun Kelly: a ball,
• 27:20
  Shaun Kelly: a square.
• 27:22
  Shaun Kelly: So we can take simple forms and make anything we want out of them.
• 27:27
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I think I remember you telling me, "Wiggle, wiggle,
• 27:30
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: wiggle," and you'd see what happens after that.
• 27:34
  Shaun Kelly: Exactly.
• 27:34
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: And make a quarter turn. Yeah.
• 27:37
  Shaun Kelly: And it works. I mean,
• 27:39
  Shaun Kelly: we have a large group of cognitive and cognitively impaired.
• 27:45
  Shaun Kelly: And it's wonderful, right? That terminology.
• 27:48
  Shaun Kelly: They go like, "I can remember wiggle, wiggle, wiggle."
• 27:51
  Shaun Kelly: Right? And in a group they can all be like, "Just remember,
• 27:53
  Shaun Kelly: wiggle, wiggle, wiggle." Right? Almost like a little song happening.
• 27:59
  Shaun Kelly: And it makes it easier for them
• 28:03
  Shaun Kelly: to remember, to accomplish.
• 28:05
  Shaun Kelly: And the easier we can make it, the more fun we can make it,
• 28:09
  Shaun Kelly: the better the results.
• 28:13
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Now, Studio on the Hill
• 28:16
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: was started in 1996 by Sister Helen,
• 28:23
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: and
• 28:25
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: she directed it for 25 years before
• 28:31
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: she retired. And I have spent plenty of my
• 28:37
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: own hours
• 28:39
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: in that building since then.
• 28:42
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Tell me how you first came through those doors and
• 28:48
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: what that place already was by the time you got there.
• 28:55
  Shaun Kelly: Yeah. So I was lucky enough to meet Sister Helen through Tucker's Pottery,
• 29:01
  Shaun Kelly: a previous employment I was at. It's a pottery supply house.
• 29:06
  Shaun Kelly: And
• 29:08
  Shaun Kelly: we talked, and we talked, and we decided, yes,
• 29:10
  Shaun Kelly: I'd love to teach the evening classes.
• 29:14
  Shaun Kelly: Right? So she'd have late night classes, sort of 7:00 to 9:00.
• 29:18
  Shaun Kelly: And it was a wide range of people.
• 29:21
  Shaun Kelly: A great diverse community, right? It wasn't just all seniors or...
• 29:26
  Shaun Kelly: It was everybody, all ages, all walks of life.
• 29:31
  Shaun Kelly: And like I said, it was a great community.
• 29:33
  Shaun Kelly: It was a safe space for learning and creativity.
• 29:38
  Shaun Kelly: There was always cookies and tea and coffee.
• 29:42
  Shaun Kelly: And the idea was to welcome you in, right?
• 29:45
  Shaun Kelly: As a Sister of St. Joseph's,
• 29:49
  Shaun Kelly: they cared about every person.
• 29:52
  Shaun Kelly: Every walk of life. Everybody could come in. Everybody could do this.
• 29:56
  Shaun Kelly: And to have that space, the inclusivity, right,
• 30:02
  Shaun Kelly: was really key for a lot of people.
• 30:05
  Shaun Kelly: Because they weren't shunned, right? They weren't labeled.
• 30:10
  Shaun Kelly: Right? When you walked in the door, you were a potter.
• 30:14
  Shaun Kelly: And you were welcomed.
• 30:19
  Shaun Kelly: And it showed, right? Everybody came back because of that,
• 30:22
  Shaun Kelly: right? They didn't necessarily come because they wanted to become
• 30:26
  Shaun Kelly: a master potter,
• 30:29
  Shaun Kelly: but they came because it was a safe space, a community,
• 30:32
  Shaun Kelly: almost a family where they could come and enjoy, and yeah.
• 30:39
  Shaun Kelly: Create art.
• 30:41
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I think that's exactly how I feel.
• 30:43
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I don't feel as if I'm the blind lady doing pottery.
• 30:49
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I'm just another potter.
• 30:53
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: And I've met so many lovely people since being at your studio.
• 30:58
  Shaun Kelly: Yeah, and sometimes the labels aren't even visible.
• 31:01
  Shaun Kelly: We've had a lot of individuals with cancer and cancer treatments.
• 31:07
  Shaun Kelly: And for them, not
• 31:10
  Shaun Kelly: being made to feel helpless.
• 31:13
  Shaun Kelly: People are like, "Let me help you. Oh, you can't do this,
• 31:15
  Shaun Kelly: you can't do that. You're too fragile."
• 31:18
  Shaun Kelly: When they come here, it's like, you know what? They can do it.
• 31:23
  Shaun Kelly: Right? They're a potter,
• 31:25
  Shaun Kelly: and it's just so freeing to be a potter and not being a cancer survivor or someone
• 31:31
  Shaun Kelly: in cancer treatment,
• 31:34
  Shaun Kelly: right?
• 31:34
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: That's amazing.
• 31:37
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: That is certainly a different approach to life, and I wish
• 31:41
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: we could spread the word more and get people to try and follow this philosophy.
• 31:47
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I think it's beautiful, you know?
• 31:49
  Shaun Kelly: I agree.
• 31:52
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Now,
• 31:54
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Fontbonne Ministries' annual report tells the
• 32:00
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: story of a man named Ricardo
• 32:04
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: who was working to get his motor skills back after a stroke,
• 32:10
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: and it credits you with teaching him the techniques that helped.
• 32:16
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: My hands do all of my seeing,
• 32:20
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: so I want the detail.
• 32:24
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Walk me through what you actually changed for him.
• 32:30
  Shaun Kelly: Yeah. So a lot of clay is a metaphor for life,
• 32:34
  Shaun Kelly: and so simple things can really impact us and affect us.
• 32:40
  Shaun Kelly: And one of the basic things we do in pottery is a pinch pot.
• 32:44
  Shaun Kelly: We kind of start with a simple, humble pinch pot where you make a ball of clay.
• 32:48
  Shaun Kelly: You just roll it in between your hands. And you take your fingers,
• 32:52
  Shaun Kelly: and you kinda press a little circle. You twist and press a circle in.
• 32:57
  Shaun Kelly: And then you start to pinch and open it up.
• 33:00
  Shaun Kelly: And that's sort of where it started in terms of the strength
• 33:05
  Shaun Kelly: and building the strength back in the fingers and getting the idea of fine motor
• 33:11
  Shaun Kelly: skills,
• 33:13
  Shaun Kelly: to make that pot even
• 33:16
  Shaun Kelly: and to see the results.
• 33:18
  Shaun Kelly: And then he could make them bigger, right?
• 33:22
  Shaun Kelly: He could make bigger pots, better pots. He could hand build with us,
• 33:26
  Shaun Kelly: right, by rolling out the slab, right?
• 33:29
  Shaun Kelly: Again, using the strength, creating a nice even slab.
• 33:35
  Shaun Kelly: Everything was building up, including his confidence.
• 33:39
  Shaun Kelly: Right? Because sometimes people, they're like, "I can't do this."
• 33:43
  Shaun Kelly: And it's like, no, you can. Just go ahead.
• 33:47
  Shaun Kelly: There's no harm. It's just clay.
• 33:49
  Shaun Kelly: Anything you do, we can always just ball up and try again.
• 33:53
  Shaun Kelly: Right? There's absolutely no harm in going for it and trying it.
• 33:57
  Shaun Kelly: And even if it falls down, that's fine, right? You test your limits,
• 34:02
  Shaun Kelly: right? You see where you can go.
• 34:04
  Shaun Kelly: And then by the time we got to the wheel,
• 34:08
  Shaun Kelly: right, that challenged everything.
• 34:11
  Shaun Kelly: His strength, his arms, his motor skills, right?
• 34:15
  Shaun Kelly: The control on the wheel.
• 34:17
  Shaun Kelly: And
• 34:19
  Shaun Kelly: by that time, which was like our third or fourth week,
• 34:22
  Shaun Kelly: you're in a community. You're in sort of a safe space,
• 34:27
  Shaun Kelly: and everybody supports you. Everybody's like, "Yeah,
• 34:30
  Shaun Kelly: you can do this." And they offer you tips and tricks,
• 34:33
  Shaun Kelly: and they're there right next to you on the wheel. And you know you're not alone,
• 34:38
  Shaun Kelly: right? You have all those people here,
• 34:41
  Shaun Kelly: and it really makes a huge difference having that support from the group.
• 34:46
  Shaun Kelly: And he formed a friendship with... There was four of them,
• 34:50
  Shaun Kelly: that every week they'd come, they'd meet here,
• 34:54
  Shaun Kelly: they would do their pottery,
• 34:57
  Shaun Kelly: and then they would go out to lunch after and grab something to eat.
• 35:01
  Shaun Kelly: And it just became a part of life.
• 35:05
  Shaun Kelly: Right? And then you wanna get back into life.
• 35:08
  Shaun Kelly: You wanna do it, and you had a reason to work towards it.
• 35:13
  Shaun Kelly: And yeah, it was just wonderful. All these little stories are wonderful
• 35:18
  Shaun Kelly: where it changes somebody life.
• 35:23
  Shaun Kelly: And pottery,
• 35:25
  Shaun Kelly: I've heard people describe it as fluff.
• 35:28
  Shaun Kelly: And it's like, you know what? It's not really.
• 35:31
  Shaun Kelly: If you want it to be fluff, if you want it just to be an Instagram moment,
• 35:35
  Shaun Kelly: that's your choice. But it can be a lot more,
• 35:38
  Shaun Kelly: and it just depends on what people need and what they're willing to get from it.
• 35:44
  Shaun Kelly: Yeah, I love it.
• 35:48
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I think when I started off, before I even met you,
• 35:51
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I wasn't sure what the heck I wanted to get out of pottery.
• 35:54
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: But after the pottery studio closed down, the first one that I attended,
• 36:01
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: and then I met Sister Helen. I don't remember how I met— oh,
• 36:05
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: it was Joan,
• 36:07
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: what's her last name? Spears, who introduced me to Sister,
• 36:11
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: and then you came along. And I kinda started thinking,
• 36:16
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: "What am I gonna do here? What do I wanna get out of this?"
• 36:20
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: And I have gotten what I wanted.
• 36:23
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I wanna stretch my imagination. I want to create.
• 36:27
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I wanna do things. And
• 36:30
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I see that the clock is starting to wind down, but I wanna ask you this.
• 36:34
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: You now have your own studio.
• 36:38
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Is it SoKo you pronounce it?
• 36:40
  Shaun Kelly: Yeah, SoKo Pottery.
• 36:42
  Shaun Kelly: https://sokopottery.com. And those are my initials,
• 36:46
  Shaun Kelly: Shaun Kelly, S-K.
• 36:49
  Shaun Kelly: And the SoKos became... they were periods in the beginning for my initials.
• 36:53
  Shaun Kelly: It was sort of my rebellious act against my early art teachers.
• 36:59
  Shaun Kelly: And so I kept it. I kept it. I grew it.
• 37:04
  Shaun Kelly: And it just stuck, it just worked. Like the pottery itself,
• 37:07
  Shaun Kelly: it kind of evolved with me over the years.
• 37:11
  Shaun Kelly: And now I sign all my work SoKo.
• 37:16
  Shaun Kelly: And it became a part of who I am now.
• 37:20
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: So how long has SoKo been in business?
• 37:25
  Shaun Kelly: So SoKo has been in business for a while.
• 37:29
  Shaun Kelly: So I started my own work, my own studio,
• 37:35
  Shaun Kelly: before COVID, probably five, 10 years before COVID.
• 37:41
  Shaun Kelly: So I started my studio. And had an opportunity with Tucker's Pottery.
• 37:46
  Shaun Kelly: And I went to Tucker's Pottery, the supply house, to do everything there.
• 37:51
  Shaun Kelly: To make the glazes, to learn everybody in the industry,
• 37:54
  Shaun Kelly: and to connect with everybody.
• 37:57
  Shaun Kelly: And then from there I came here to help
• 38:01
  Shaun Kelly: lead the new way for Studio on the Hill and Sister Helen and the Sisters of St.
• 38:05
  Shaun Kelly: Joseph's.
• 38:07
  Shaun Kelly: And then just in May, May 1st of this year, I had the great opportunity
• 38:12
  Shaun Kelly: of taking it on.
• 38:14
  Shaun Kelly: Creating SoKo Pottery again in its physical space.
• 38:19
  Shaun Kelly: So I'm very lucky, I'm very blessed
• 38:22
  Shaun Kelly: to have the life
• 38:25
  Shaun Kelly: come naturally. It was very organic.
• 38:30
  Shaun Kelly: And it was an experience I may not have expected.
• 38:34
  Shaun Kelly: But it's one that I needed.
• 38:39
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: So
• 38:41
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: how has it been so far with SoKo?
• 38:46
  Shaun Kelly: Oh, it's wonderful.
• 38:48
  Shaun Kelly: It's wonderful. To be able to
• 38:52
  Shaun Kelly: sort of create your own direction. To have control over your own destiny.
• 38:58
  Shaun Kelly: Right? It's a lot of responsibility.
• 39:01
  Shaun Kelly: But it's wonderful to know.
• 39:05
  Shaun Kelly: Just from paying the bills, right? The hydro bills,
• 39:08
  Shaun Kelly: the day to day.
• 39:10
  Shaun Kelly: But that balances off with being able to make the decisions of,
• 39:14
  Shaun Kelly: will we have workshops?
• 39:18
  Shaun Kelly: What other groups can we bring in?
• 39:20
  Shaun Kelly: Could it be Covenant House? Could it be Princess Margaret?
• 39:25
  Shaun Kelly: We wanna continue the spirit that Sister Helen and Studio on the Hill set.
• 39:31
  Shaun Kelly: Of the community groups and other people all in the same space.
• 39:36
  Shaun Kelly: Right? We don't wanna ostracize this person there and that person here.
• 39:42
  Shaun Kelly: Everybody's a potter. And so we're looking at ways to lead that charge.
• 39:49
  Shaun Kelly: And to go into the future.
• 39:53
  Shaun Kelly: It's gonna be a wonderful model because there's so many pottery studios out there.
• 39:59
  Shaun Kelly: We wanna set ourselves apart.
• 40:01
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Absolutely.
• 40:04
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: So—
• 40:04
  Shaun Kelly: And I think that's one of the ways we're gonna do it.
• 40:08
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: So give us some contact info. How can our listeners contact you?
• 40:13
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: By phone, by email, and your website.
• 40:16
  Shaun Kelly: Yeah, definitely. So, S-O-K-O pottery dot com.
• 40:22
  Shaun Kelly: That's our website. We have a schedule every month.
• 40:26
  Shaun Kelly: We have workshops going on. We have different classes going on,
• 40:29
  Shaun Kelly: whether it be individual classes.
• 40:32
  Shaun Kelly: If you're worried and you wanna know how will I enjoy the experience,
• 40:38
  Shaun Kelly: you can do one or two classes to try. We have a structured eight-week course.
• 40:43
  Shaun Kelly: It allows you to have a sample of everything.
• 40:46
  Shaun Kelly: The hand building, the wheel throwing, the glazing.
• 40:50
  Shaun Kelly: It really gives you a well-rounded idea of the whole process.
• 40:55
  Shaun Kelly: So all of that's on the website. You can also reach us by phone.
• 40:59
  Shaun Kelly: 647-945-1166.
• 41:05
  Shaun Kelly: Right now we're open Monday to Fridays.
• 41:07
  Shaun Kelly: That's when a lot of the community groups operate.
• 41:10
  Shaun Kelly: So we've kept our hours the same to match them.
• 41:13
  Shaun Kelly: In the future we're looking at expanding maybe into Saturdays,
• 41:17
  Shaun Kelly: more evenings, we feel, yeah, to increase the accessibility for everybody.
• 41:25
  Shaun Kelly: And it's gonna be an exciting journey.
• 41:28
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I could hear it in your voice. I really can.
• 41:30
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: And I hope to be watching and being a part of it all,
• 41:34
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: because I don't know how many years I've been with you now,
• 41:38
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: but
• 41:39
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: it has evolved into much more than
• 41:42
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: an instructor,
• 41:44
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: a student thing. I look at you as my friend.
• 41:47
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I look at you as my advisor. I ask you questions [laughs] and you give me your
• 41:55
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: unbiased
• 41:57
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: advice. I've really, really enjoyed it.
• 42:01
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: And I know you have a sale coming up, a Christmas sale in early November.
• 42:06
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Tell us about that.
• 42:07
  Shaun Kelly: Yep. So November 6th, 7th, and 8th.
• 42:11
  Shaun Kelly: The studio and all their members are coming together collectively
• 42:16
  Shaun Kelly: to have a show and sale of all our work and what we've been able to do.
• 42:21
  Shaun Kelly: And so it's a great way to bring everybody together.
• 42:24
  Shaun Kelly: To see everybody's work.
• 42:27
  Shaun Kelly: Like for yourself, you come once a week.
• 42:30
  Shaun Kelly: But there's people who come on all other days, other times.
• 42:34
  Shaun Kelly: So it really allows everyone to see what everyone's accomplishing all at once.
• 42:40
  Shaun Kelly: You can bring your friends. To say, "Look, this is what I'm doing.
• 42:43
  Shaun Kelly: This is what I'm a part of."
• 42:47
  Shaun Kelly: And if you sell some pots, it helps to raise money for clay,
• 42:52
  Shaun Kelly: for pottery, to help support the craft
• 42:55
  Shaun Kelly: that we love. So I think everybody wins.
• 43:00
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah, definitely.
• 43:01
  Shaun Kelly: Yeah, and then when you come to the sale,
• 43:05
  Shaun Kelly: you're looking for pieces that are unique.
• 43:07
  Shaun Kelly: Something that you pick up and you say, "Oh,
• 43:09
  Shaun Kelly: there's just something about this that I love."
• 43:13
  Shaun Kelly: We're not looking for Walmart,
• 43:14
  Shaun Kelly: where everything's the same or everything is this or everything is that.
• 43:20
  Shaun Kelly: You want the piece to speak to you.
• 43:22
  Shaun Kelly: Something that's gonna remind you of that day or that event or
• 43:30
  Shaun Kelly: every sip of coffee.
• 43:34
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Now, is this the only sale you'll be having each year,
• 43:37
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: or are you planning other sales during the year?
• 43:41
  Shaun Kelly: So we're gonna start with the Christmas sale.
• 43:44
  Shaun Kelly: And then in the future, there's also the possibility of a spring sale.
• 43:50
  Shaun Kelly: I don't know if anyone else is feeling it, but time is going by so fast.
• 43:55
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I know. I know.
• 43:57
  Shaun Kelly: And so we're gonna play it by ear. We're gonna see what the membership thinks.
• 44:02
  Shaun Kelly: Does the timing work? Because it takes a lot, right?
• 44:06
  Shaun Kelly: It's gonna take about a week or two, at least, to put the sale together.
• 44:11
  Shaun Kelly: And during that time, the membership won't be able to pot.
• 44:15
  Shaun Kelly: So we wanna make sure that it comes at a good time.
• 44:19
  Shaun Kelly: And it's not disruptive, right?
• 44:21
  Shaun Kelly: We don't want it to fall in the middle of a huge event or...
• 44:25
  Shaun Kelly: so we're gonna keep it open. And it's a wonderful opportunity to have that.
• 44:32
  Shaun Kelly: And even fundraising events in the future, right?
• 44:35
  Shaun Kelly: There's a fundraising event called Empty Bowls,
• 44:39
  Shaun Kelly: where us potters create bowls. We donate them,
• 44:43
  Shaun Kelly: and then we have chefs bring in soups and buns.
• 44:47
  Shaun Kelly: And we help generate revenue
• 44:50
  Shaun Kelly: for charity to help support the charitable programs that we do.
• 44:56
  Shaun Kelly: And that's something we're looking into because it's a wonderful time when you can
• 44:59
  Shaun Kelly: bring food and empty bowls.
• 45:02
  Shaun Kelly: It's very much in tune with Fontbonne Ministries.
• 45:06
  Shaun Kelly: And they deal with individuals who are housing and food insecure.
• 45:11
  Shaun Kelly: And to be able to provide that alongside pottery, which is great for
• 45:17
  Shaun Kelly: our mind, our body, our soul,
• 45:19
  Shaun Kelly: is like the complete package.
• 45:22
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I think this is marvelous, absolutely marvelous,
• 45:25
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: and I'm not just looking forward to my Christmas, or your Christmas sale,
• 45:31
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: and—
• 45:31
  Shaun Kelly: Oh, it's our Christmas sale, for sure.
• 45:33
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah, our Christmas sale.
• 45:36
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I'm really looking forward to that, and after that,
• 45:38
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I think you and I have discussed my Canadiana line,
• 45:42
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: which I hope to start on after the Christmas sale.
• 45:47
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: It's all about producing pieces that would sort of spark
• 45:53
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: not just unity but patriotism in those who see them.
• 45:58
  Shaun Kelly: Exactly. And that's what we need now, right?
• 46:00
  Shaun Kelly: We need something that's going to be meaningful.
• 46:04
  Shaun Kelly: Right? And yeah, to be proud to be Canadian.
• 46:08
  Shaun Kelly: Yeah, I think this is a great time to be proud and to be Canadian.
• 46:14
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I agree, and
• 46:16
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I am just... I could jump out of my chair right now 'cause I'm so excited for you.
• 46:22
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: And like I said, you've changed my life in many, many ways.
• 46:26
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I mean, I—
• 46:27
  Shaun Kelly: And same for you.
• 46:29
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Well, I never thought that I would get to like pottery that much.
• 46:34
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I mean, I look forward to it every week, and I look forward to
• 46:38
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: chatting with you and others around me and laughing and joking and
• 46:44
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: all kinds of things. It's great. Absolutely great.
• 46:46
  Shaun Kelly: Yeah, it's a wonderful community. Even if somebody's missing,
• 46:49
  Shaun Kelly: it's like, well, where's Cathy or where's Lee or where's—
• 46:52
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Where's Cooper?
• 46:54
  Shaun Kelly: Exactly.
• 46:56
  Shaun Kelly: It's wonderful to have that connection with people.
• 47:01
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I'd like to invite you back
• 47:04
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: after the Christmas sale sometime in the new year to tell us how it went.
• 47:10
  Shaun Kelly: Yep, count me in.
• 47:11
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: And I
• 47:13
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: wanna hear about your plans. I think this is just a very,
• 47:17
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: very unique way to bring people together.
• 47:20
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: In a world where people are so darn busy,
• 47:22
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: they don't get time to breathe or think.
• 47:26
  Shaun Kelly: Yeah, exactly. We're all in that race. To get more money,
• 47:30
  Shaun Kelly: more this, more that.
• 47:32
  Shaun Kelly: We just have to realize we have a lot already.
• 47:36
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: That's right, so let's share it around us.
• 47:40
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: And let's appreciate what we have, right?
• 47:44
  Shaun Kelly: Absolutely.
• 47:45
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Shaun, it has been a pleasure, a privilege—
• 47:48
  Shaun Kelly: As always. Thank you, Donna.
• 47:50
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: —to have you here. No, I mean it.
• 47:53
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: And I come every Thursday now. I used to come on a Monday,
• 47:56
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: but now it's Thursday, which is great.
• 47:59
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: And we'll talk more about this, and I wanna thank you for having stopped by.
• 48:05
  Shaun Kelly: Thank you so much. Always a wonderful time, Donna.
• 48:08
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Okay. You take care, and we'll see you in the next few days.
• 48:12
  Shaun Kelly: Sounds great. Thank you.
• 48:14
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Take care now.
• 48:14
  Shaun Kelly: Take care.
• 48:15
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Bye, Shaun.
• 48:16
  Shaun Kelly: Bye, Donna.
• 48:17
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Bye-bye.
• 48:22
  Podcast Commentator: Donna wants to hear from you and invites you to write to her at
• 48:25
  Podcast Commentator: donnajodhan@gmail.com.
• 48:28
  Podcast Commentator: Until next time.