Latest / The Kenny Report / The Kenny Report | 8 October

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The Kenny Report | 8 October · The Kenny Report

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: This is The Kenny Report. Thanks, Ross, and thank you
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: for joining me tonight.
• 0:08
  Speaker 2: Whether it's controlling your spending or absorbing your credit card surcharges,
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: the Albanese Labor government refuses to do what it expects
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: all the rest of us to do. The immigration debate
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: is off and running. Now the coalition policy is out there.
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: I'll catch up with Andrew Hastie, who was itching to
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: write that.
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: Policy a year ago.
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: Local activists want Hamas taken off the terror list, can
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: you believe? Also, the lies and allegations thrown at Israel.
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: I'll speak to international lawyer Natasha Hausdorff, who fights for
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: truth on the global stage. Plus, Alexander Downer on the
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: need for economic rationalism. And the National Cabinet returns with
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: Mark and Tim on sending Daniel Andrews to jail.
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: Let's get cracking.
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: You have to wonder about the soft awareness of the
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: Albanese Labor government, don't you? They either have no idea
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: about their own inconsistencies and hypocrisy, or they just don't care.
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: For instance, they pretend to show empathy for taxpayers doing
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: it tough in a cost-of-living crisis.
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: They say they can feel our pain. They say it
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: all the time.
• 1:19
  Speaker 3: We know that Australians are under pressure and we know
• 1:22
  Speaker 3: that rising global inflation and interest rates are making this harder.
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's tough.
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: So they expect us to trim our cloth, cut back
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: on our own spending. But the main way they can
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: reduce inflation and put downward pressure on interest rates is
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: to trim their own cloth, to cut their own spending.
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: Yet they won't do that.
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: They continue to increase government spending to record levels because
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: they don't have the spine for tough decisions. Labor takes
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: the easy option itself while leaving taxpayers to make hard
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: decisions about their own weekly budgets. But how about their
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: new ban on credit card surcharges? As ever, the government
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: pretends it's your friend, with inane social media posts aimed
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: at winning the support of low-information voters.
• 2:19
  Speaker 4: Every time you tap, those little surcharges add up. Right now,
• 2:23
  Speaker 4: they're costing Aussies $ 1. 6 billion each and every year. But
• 2:27
  Speaker 4: from today, they're banned, saving you money every time you tap.
• 2:31
  Speaker 4: So whether you're at the supermarket paying bills or buying
• 2:34
  Speaker 4: a cup of coffee, the price you see is the
• 2:36
  Speaker 4: price you pay.
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: What, the credit card costs just disappear, do they? $ 1. 6
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: billion just.
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: Disappears out of the economy, does it? Of course not.
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: Small businesses have to pay all that themselves. So they
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: either take a big hit across most of their income
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: or they raise prices and customers carry the burden.
• 3:01
  Speaker 5: Looking at our pricing, looking at our competitors' pricing around
• 3:04
  Speaker 5: the area and... With all the other cost increases, a
• 3:08
  Speaker 5: price increase was inevitable anyway. So the price increase we
• 3:12
  Speaker 5: will be doing will be larger than what this surcharge is.
• 3:17
  Speaker 5: It would usually be about 10 cents on a coffee,
• 3:21
  Speaker 5: but our prices will go up a.
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: Bit more than that. Here we are in the middle
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: of an inflationary environment.
• 3:26
  Speaker 6: Inflation is up, interest rates are up, energy costs are up,
• 3:30
  Speaker 6: and now you've got to pay more for your coffee
• 3:31
  Speaker 6: and your food.
• 3:33
  Speaker 7: It is smoke and mirrors, and the reality is that
• 3:36
  Speaker 7: these surcharges are not going away.
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: Somebody still has to pay this.
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: Most Labor MPs have spent a lifetime in the union
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: movement or government and political jobs. They think money is free.
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: But the killer flaw in Labor's policy has been exposed
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: by its own tax office, which has decided to ban
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: people using credit cards to pay their tax bills.
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: Why?
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: Because now it's not allowed to pass on the credit
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: card surcharges itself. The tax office can't afford to absorb
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: that cost. So the cost that the government expects private
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: businesses to absorb cannot be absorbed, apparently, by its own
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: tax office.
• 4:20
  Speaker 8: One of the problems we have is an inconsistency where
• 4:22
  Speaker 8: the government is turning around to small business and saying,
• 4:25
  Speaker 8: you've got to cop the extra costs that are being
• 4:28
  Speaker 8: passed on by the banks, but we, the government, won't.
• 4:31
  Speaker 8: And it's the double standards that are really enraging people.
• 4:34
  Speaker 9: They are asking small businesses to absorb the surcharges and
• 4:40
  Speaker 9: then they refuse to absorb the surcharge. The hypocrisy of
• 4:44
  Speaker 9: this knows no bounds.
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Labor has no idea and they hope you don't
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: have any idea either.
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: They can't even agree among themselves.
• 4:55
  Speaker 3: The government does have some real concerns about what the
• 4:58
  Speaker 3: ATO is proposing to do here.
• 5:01
  Speaker 10: This is, you know, small businesses across.
• 5:02
  Speaker 3: The country really struggle to manage their cash flow. And
• 5:05
  Speaker 3: I know that partly because I grew up in a
• 5:07
  Speaker 3: household where both my mum and my dad ran their
• 5:10
  Speaker 3: own small business. Cash flow is the biggest thing that's
• 5:12
  Speaker 3: often of concern for small business. And using credit cards
• 5:16
  Speaker 3: to pay tax bill is a way that a lot
• 5:19
  Speaker 3: of people are just managing that issue. So we really
• 5:22
  Speaker 3: want the ATO to go back and talk to business.
• 5:26
  Speaker 11: The government has made a really important reform here and
• 5:28
  Speaker 11: that reform is to help Australians by making surcharging banned.
• 5:33
  Speaker 11: And by doing that, we have reduced the cost that
• 5:37
  Speaker 11: businesses pay when they take a payment on a card. Overall,
• 5:41
  Speaker 11: that'll be good across the economy for consumers and it
• 5:44
  Speaker 11: will be good for businesses.
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: Let's hope Labor sorts all this out soon.
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: Labor's whole political strategy is based on handouts, giveaways and
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: grand promises, but they undermine the very economy that sustains
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: all of us. Ratings agency Standard & Poor's has called
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: out Labor's wild spending. As reported by The Australian, the
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: ratings agency noted that record government spending was complicating the
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: Reserve Bank's job by driving inflation higher. This contradicts Chalmers'
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: attempts to blame inflation on on the Iran war. Right
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: now we have a situation where the RBA and the
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: government are in some cases pulling in opposite directions, said
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: Standard & Poor's analyst. The RBA is trying to clamp
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: down on inflation that's primarily driven.
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: By growth in aggregate demand, he went on.
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: That means the two major arms of public policy are
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: not being driven, not being as effective in delivering their
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: individual mandates. In other words, the Reserve Bank has its
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: foot on the brakes, raising interest rates, while the Labor
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: government has its foot on the accelerator with high spending.
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: They should be working together to make our economy and
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: your cost of living better. But Jim Chalmers and Anthony
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: Albanese either don't understand or don't care. Unlike us, they
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: think they can just put everything on the credit card,
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: the one taxpayers one day have to repay. just on
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: the Middle East, and the protesters in this country even callously,
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: cruelly protesting yesterday on October the 7th. And just let
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: me show you some of their social media posts that
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: expose just how extreme they are, just how antipathetic they
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: are to freedom, fairness, humanity and even our own country.
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: This mob calls themselves Sydney Palestine Actions, a Trotskyist group,
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: and they display the flags of the non-existent state of Palestine.
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: As well as Lebanon, Iran and Yemen.
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: All places from which attacks on Israel have been launched.
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: And they banned the flying of the Australian flag from
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: their people. But critically, they call for a lifting of
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: the terror listings on Hamas, Hezbollah, Palestinian Islamic Jihad, Ansar Allah,
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: which is the Houthis, as well as Iran's Islamic Revolutionary
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: Guard Corps.
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: Now, think about that for a moment. Terror groups.
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: that slaughter innocent people across the Middle East and elsewhere,
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: terror groups that want to eliminate Israel and Jews from
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: the face of the earth, and even the Revolutionary Guard
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: in Iran that exports Islamist terrorism around the world, slaughters
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: its own people, and it's been linked to terrorism in Australia.
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: And a bunch of brain-dead university types and hard-left activists
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: want these groups legalised in Australia, made legal, in our country. Look,
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: we know these clowns hate Australia.
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: Have a look at this post. They talk about rallying
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: on stolen Aboriginal land.
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: And they say they oppose the rule of our colonial,
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: capitalist and imperialist ruling class. And they remind us that
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: they won't tolerate the Australian flag. So they hate Australia,
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: but they happily take its welfare handouts and happily staged
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: protests here that would have them executed if they staged
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: them in Iran or Gaza.
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: They are fools, to be sure.
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: And I share their posts with you so that you
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: can pass on to anyone you know who supports or
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: joins the pro-Palestinian protesters and marchers. Some people no doubt
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: get involved because of good intentions, thinking they're defending innocent Palestinian.
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: Children or something. But in reality, they've fallen for lies
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: and propaganda.
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: And they're just being used to boost the numbers for ignorant, hateful,
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: communist activists who openly support terror groups and rail against
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: this great country of ours. I've said for the past
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: three years that these protests only provide succour to the
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: terrorist groups, only indirectly help the Islamist extremism cause. But
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: now some of the protesters are open and upfront about it.
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: They support Hamas and they walk among us. And our
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: governments seem to be fine with all that. Let's catch
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: up now with the Shadow Energy Minister, Dan T, and
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: he joins us live from Victoria.
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us, Dan.
• 10:42
  Speaker 12: Pleasure to be with you, Chris.
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: I want to start firstly on the economy and what
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: I was just talking about at the top of the
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: program when it comes to spending and being called out
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: in gentle terms by the Standard & Poor's Global.
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: Credit Rating Agency. But clearly there's a problem.
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: Here where you've got the government spending wildly while the
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: interest rates are going up because the Reserve Bank wants
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: to wind things back.
• 11:07
  Speaker 7: You're absolutely right. And what's very clear now is you've
• 11:10
  Speaker 7: got the Reserve Bank with its foot on the brake,
• 11:14
  Speaker 7: while Jim Chalmers and Anthony Albanese have their.
• 11:18
  Speaker 12: Foot on the spending accelerator. And of course, that's not
• 11:22
  Speaker 12: going to work.
• 11:23
  Speaker 7: It's Sadly, it's Australians who are paying the price because
• 11:32
  Speaker 7: what we're seeing is the Reserve Bank have no choice
• 11:35
  Speaker 7: but to continue to put interest rates up, 16 now
• 11:40
  Speaker 7: under the Albanese and the Labor government. And I don't think,
• 11:45
  Speaker 7: you know, the credit ratings, the Reserve Bank, the OECD,
• 11:49
  Speaker 7: everyone is saying to the government, you've got to cut
• 11:52
  Speaker 7: your spending.
• 11:53
  Speaker 12: But the sad reality is they just seem addicted to it.
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's incredible.
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: And what about this double standard where they expect small
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: businesses and large businesses to absorb any credit card charges,
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: but the ATO says, no thanks, no credit cards with us,
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: we don't want to pay the money?
• 12:10
  Speaker 12: It's unbelievable.
• 12:12
  Speaker 7: Legal currency, paying with your credit.
• 12:15
  Speaker 12: Card, as I understand it, it's, you know, we can
• 12:17
  Speaker 12: still do it in.
• 12:19
  Speaker 7: Today's economy, and yet the ATO says, no, small business,
• 12:23
  Speaker 7: we're not going to take it.
• 12:24
  Speaker 12: I mean, this is so bizarre.
• 12:26
  Speaker 7: And then you've got Andrew Charlton and Claire O'Neill are
• 12:30
  Speaker 7: complete opposites about what should be going on here.
• 12:34
  Speaker 12: I mean, the whole thing is becoming a circus here.
• 12:38
  Speaker 7: And yet the trouble is I don't think Australians have
• 12:42
  Speaker 7: done it this tough.
• 12:43
  Speaker 12: For a long, long time.
• 12:45
  Speaker 7: Just at a time when they need adults in charge
• 12:49
  Speaker 7: and people making sensible decisions on their behalf, they're getting.
• 12:54
  Speaker 12: A clown show. And that's why I think the anger
• 12:57
  Speaker 12: is building.
• 12:58
  Speaker 7: And I can tell you, I think that's why the
• 13:00
  Speaker 7: Prime Minister's net approval rating has completely gone through the floor.
• 13:05
  Speaker 7: People are just looking and saying, at a time when
• 13:08
  Speaker 7: we need real leadership, we're just not getting it from
• 13:11
  Speaker 7: this government in particular, from the Prime Minister and Jim Chalmers.
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there's no doubt people are waking up to it.
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: They've been fooled for a long while, but it's just
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: the economic reality is breaking through to people and they
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: can see this government's just doing nothing. Everything it does
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: is the wrong thing, in fact, with the increased spending,
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: for instance, and with this move on credit card charges.
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: They do it for a social media post to pretend
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: they're saving us all a few cents on a cup
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: of coffee and they just create... economic chaos. It's so distressing.
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: But I want to go to something that's even more
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: worrying for the country, and it relates, of course, to
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: your portfolio of energy, and that is this High Court decision,
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: which the High Court hasn't really made a ruling. It's
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: just backed in the New South Wales Court, where it's
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: banned this mine expansion because of coal emissions that would.
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: Be generated overseas.
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: I mean, in other words, here's our country undermining its
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: own major export industry.
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: How can this be fixed?
• 14:09
  Speaker 7: Well, it needs to be fixed by legislation and we
• 14:13
  Speaker 7: need to make the law incredibly clear here. Now, they
• 14:16
  Speaker 7: need to do it in New South Wales, but we
• 14:18
  Speaker 7: also need to do it federally.
• 14:20
  Speaker 12: Because, as you know, there was an International Court of Justice...
• 14:24
  Speaker 12: ruling on this last year.
• 14:27
  Speaker 7: Now, of course, it doesn't have direct jurisdiction here in Australia,
• 14:30
  Speaker 7: but then we supported that ruling in the United Nations
• 14:35
  Speaker 7: General Assembly earlier this year.
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: Good Lord.
• 14:39
  Speaker 7: So we have almost sort of said, well, yes, federally,
• 14:43
  Speaker 7: we think that this is a right direction to go in.
• 14:47
  Speaker 7: So what we need to see is the law absolutely
• 14:50
  Speaker 7: clarified here. We need to see it done in New
• 14:53
  Speaker 7: South Wales. and we need to see it done federally.
• 14:56
  Speaker 7: And we're quite happy to work with the Albanese Labor
• 14:59
  Speaker 7: government to do it, to basically say that Scope 3
• 15:03
  Speaker 7: emissions shouldn't be taken into account on any judicial decision
• 15:08
  Speaker 7: or when it comes to... any planning approvals that need
• 15:12
  Speaker 7: to be granted. We're happy to work with them because
• 15:15
  Speaker 7: this will hurt us big time because you've got to
• 15:18
  Speaker 7: remember those exports, and especially those coal exports, pay for
• 15:21
  Speaker 7: the new schools, the new hospitals, fixing.
• 15:25
  Speaker 12: Our roads, doing all those things, and we lose that.
• 15:28
  Speaker 12: With a trillion dollars in debt, we're in serious trouble.
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: Well, our main exports are mining, iron ore mining and
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: coal mining. And, of course, then it's gas as well.
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: And Labor is antagonistic towards all of these. This is
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: the problem. There's been laws passed over the years. There's
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: activism involved here.
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: Of course, $ 8.
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: Million of taxpayers' money a year going to the Environmental
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: Defender's Office. They've run this campaign against the government decision.
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: So you've got taxpayers' money used to campaign in courts
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: against the best interests of taxpayers.
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: It's absolutely outrageous.
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: And you've got Labor, the Greens and the Teals all
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: run all this stuff that somehow our industries are killing
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: the planet.
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: And yet, on the other hand, we actually need an
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: economy that functions.
• 16:15
  Speaker 7: You're absolutely right, and it's why we said ahead of
• 16:18
  Speaker 7: the last election at the Environmental Defender's Office we would defund.
• 16:23
  Speaker 7: I mean, it is ludicrous that we tie our resource
• 16:27
  Speaker 7: companies up in knots by actually funding organisations to take
• 16:32
  Speaker 7: them to court and make sure they can't do what
• 16:35
  Speaker 7: keeps us wealthy.
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, let's have a... Sorry, I'll come back to you, Dan.
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: Let's just have a listen to Tanya Constable from the
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: mining industry.
• 16:43
  Speaker 13: We were very surprised, very concerned.
• 16:46
  Speaker 10: Enough is enough.
• 16:48
  Speaker 4: This is really sending a shiver down the spine of
• 16:51
  Speaker 4: all mining companies and projects in New South Wales but
• 16:55
  Speaker 4: across Australia.
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: Now, this is the point.
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: You know, a lot of people in this country would
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: look at that and think she would say that, wouldn't she? Well,
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: you need to understand just how massive mining exports are
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: for this country, how they provide jobs for so many people.
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: They underpin the economy.
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: They underpin the federal government and all the taxation and
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: state governments, all the taxation they pay.
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: And then on top of that, people need to.
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: Understand that we have Labor governments.
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: giving our.
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: Tax dollars to these environmental lawyers whose job it is
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: then to attack and undermine approvals that have been given
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: by governments.
• 17:32
  Speaker 7: And, Chris, the great irony is it's those resources which
• 17:37
  Speaker 7: are providing the income to government, they're actually paying.
• 17:41
  Speaker 12: The Environmental Defender's Office.
• 17:44
  Speaker 7: So if we didn't have those resources, if they weren't
• 17:47
  Speaker 7: paying the tax receipts, they wouldn't be able to do
• 17:49
  Speaker 7: these things. I mean, the hypocrisy, the lunacy, I mean,
• 17:53
  Speaker 7: it is becoming, sadly, a clown show. And what we're
• 17:58
  Speaker 7: starting to realise, and I think the Australian people.
• 18:00
  Speaker 12: Are starting to realise, is that every which.
• 18:03
  Speaker 7: Way you look at this Albanese Labor government, they are
• 18:06
  Speaker 7: just not providing the leadership that this nation needs at
• 18:09
  Speaker 7: the moment. We need a strong economy. We need strong
• 18:13
  Speaker 7: resources growth. We have to guarantee the investment that we
• 18:17
  Speaker 7: need to continue that resources growth, because without it, we're
• 18:21
  Speaker 7: a much poorer nation. And at the moment, we've got
• 18:24
  Speaker 7: a trillion dollars in debt. We're running budget deficits as
• 18:28
  Speaker 7: far as the eye can see. We need to be
• 18:31
  Speaker 7: generating wealth for this nation at the moment, not doing
• 18:34
  Speaker 7: everything we can to destroy it.
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: Spot on.
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: I've talked about national energy self-harm for a decade or more.
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: It goes beyond that now.
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: We're just seeing national self-inflicted harm on so many levels,
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: and it is absolutely alarming.
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us, Dan. I appreciate it. Dan Tiendare.
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: in Victoria.
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: Let's cross now live to London where we catch up
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: with Australia's formerly foreign minister, was our longest serving foreign minister,
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: Alexander Downer.
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: Good to catch up with you again, Alexander.
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: I want to continue on this theme about the economy
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: first up because you wrote a great column this week
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: talking about how our political class is so caught up
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: in delivering messages and catchy lines in social media and
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: reacting to the polls that They've forgotten all about the
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: basic economic fundamentals that keep the show and the country
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: on the road.
• 19:23
  Speaker 14: Yes, well, I think we do live in an age
• 19:26
  Speaker 14: of political populism where politicians and particularly political parties have
• 19:33
  Speaker 14: become very sophisticated, engaging public opinion, and they're just telling
• 19:38
  Speaker 14: the public what they want to hear and they're spending
• 19:41
  Speaker 14: money on projects that they know the public want without
• 19:47
  Speaker 14: being honest about the costs of these projects and these programs.
• 19:52
  Speaker 14: So I use the example of infrastructure spending. I mean,
• 19:56
  Speaker 14: it's very popular. It's wonderful to have new roads and
• 19:59
  Speaker 14: new rail links and so on. I accept all of that.
• 20:04
  Speaker 14: But if you put too much taxpayers' money into those projects,
• 20:10
  Speaker 14: which is what we're doing at the moment, not only
• 20:14
  Speaker 14: do you run up debt, and we've run up a
• 20:18
  Speaker 14: huge amount of debt, which has to be serviced, but
• 20:22
  Speaker 14: more than that, you are spending money competing with resources,
• 20:28
  Speaker 14: with the private sector.
• 20:30
  Speaker 12: So, for example.
• 20:31
  Speaker 14: you're forcing up housing prices by investing so much of taxpayers'
• 20:37
  Speaker 14: money or borrowed money in infrastructure projects. So, I mean,
• 20:44
  Speaker 14: the problem is populism isn't about good economic policy. And
• 20:50
  Speaker 14: the present Australian government and the theme of politics in
• 20:55
  Speaker 14: recent years has just been populism, not serious economic management.
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's the difference between easy options and hard
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: work as well. I notice it a lot when we
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: talk about the cost of living crisis in Australia.
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: Jim Chalmers and Anthony.
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: Albanese always say, oh, yeah, but we're bringing out these
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: cost of living measures, right? So they're saying there's a
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: cost of living crunch... we'll spend more government money to
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: try and help you out here and there, when the
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: problem is they should be working hard to reduce electricity prices,
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: to reduce the pressure on inflation by their own rampant spending.
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: Do the hard work.
• 21:30
  Speaker 14: I mean, this is the irony. They're spending more money
• 21:34
  Speaker 14: on so-called cost of living measures, which is only driving
• 21:38
  Speaker 14: up the cost of living because of the pumping more
• 21:42
  Speaker 14: money into the economy. Well, you're quite right. There are
• 21:45
  Speaker 14: all sorts of factors here. There's been the reaction to
• 21:49
  Speaker 14: climate change. You've just been talking to Dan Tehan about that.
• 21:55
  Speaker 14: The Parliament legislated for net zero by 2050. Now, stop
• 22:00
  Speaker 14: and think about it. You're handing over decisions to the
• 22:05
  Speaker 14: courts by legislating, by making it law. It was popular,
• 22:10
  Speaker 14: no doubt, to legislate for net zero by 2050. But
• 22:19
  Speaker 14: the consequences of doing that are huge economically, and legally
• 22:25
  Speaker 14: as well. Introducing laws without thinking through the consequences of
• 22:31
  Speaker 14: your laws just because those laws are superficially popular. It's
• 22:36
  Speaker 14: a symbol of our age.
• 22:38
  Speaker 13: It is.
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: It's tragic and we're going to pay the consequences.
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: Just on climate change, Anthony Albanese and Chris Bowen this
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: week have been in the Pacific with this COP meeting.
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: Have a listen to some of what the Prime Minister
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: had to say.
• 22:52
  Speaker 4: The forecast of Super El Niño may test us all.
• 22:57
  Speaker 4: In Australia, we're expecting a summer of floods, of cyclones,
• 23:04
  Speaker 4: of extreme heat and extreme behaviour. Because the science told
• 23:10
  Speaker 4: us that if we didn't act to address global emissions,
• 23:15
  Speaker 4: this is precisely what would occur. And tragically, that is
• 23:20
  Speaker 4: playing out.
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: Now, this does my head in. Of course, we've always
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: been the country of droughts and flooding rain. There are
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: always tragically going to be difficulties with bushfires and cyclones
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: and the like.
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: But here he goes on the international stage.
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: He talks up this alarmism to justify these policies that
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: are crippling our energy grid and are costing us a
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: bomb and not changing the climate.
• 23:45
  Speaker 14: Well, yes, it's not going to have any effect on
• 23:47
  Speaker 14: the climate.
• 23:48
  Speaker 12: He should be talking.
• 23:50
  Speaker 14: in the South Pacific about programs that help them adapt
• 23:55
  Speaker 14: to climate change. But he's just, again, it's just populism.
• 24:00
  Speaker 14: He's playing on a stage there where a number of
• 24:04
  Speaker 14: South Pacific governments are in the thrall of climate activists
• 24:13
  Speaker 14: and activists are telling them their countries are going to disappear.
• 24:18
  Speaker 14: So they are demanding Australia do more to address the
• 24:22
  Speaker 14: climate change issue, as if Australia can address the climate
• 24:27
  Speaker 14: change issue. Australia can't change the climate. There's nothing Australia can.
• 24:32
  Speaker 12: Do about it.
• 24:33
  Speaker 14: But there's no point in expecting the Prime Minister to
• 24:39
  Speaker 14: behave rationally. He's a populist politician. That's what he does.
• 24:45
  Speaker 14: And he's very good at it, telling people what they
• 24:48
  Speaker 14: want to hear without thinking through the consequences or the
• 24:52
  Speaker 14: practicality of it. I mean, Australia needs realism in its leadership,
• 24:58
  Speaker 14: not populism.
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: Spot on, Alexander. Great to catch up with you.
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: Thanks for joining us, Alexander, down there live from London.
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: We're going to get to a break.
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: On the other side of that, we're going to check
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: in on the lies and allegations that are constantly thrown
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: at Israel. I'll speak to the international lawyer, Natasha Hausdorff,
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: who fights for truth.
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: On the global stage. As you realise, but much of the.
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: Population doesn't, much of the media and political debate is
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: full of lies and wild allegations thrown at Israel, from
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: genocide to war crimes and illegal settlements, even killing journalists
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: in Gaza, they claim. British international lawyer Natasha Hausdorff is
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: a leading voice pushing for the truth in global forums
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: and in public debate. And she joins me now live
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: from Israel. Natasha, great to catch up with you. It
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: was great to meet you in the flesh in your
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: recent visit to Australia.
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: So thanks for joining us.
• 26:01
  Speaker 10: It's a pleasure to be with you. And it was
• 26:02
  Speaker 10: a pleasure to.
• 26:04
  Speaker 13: in Australia for two weeks, not that long ago.
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: No, not so long ago at all. I just wanted
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: to start off on the anniversary. Obviously, you happened to
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: be in Israel for the October the 7th anniversary yesterday,
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: an incredibly solemn day. But around the rest of the world,
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: especially in the Western liberal democracies, it also became a
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: day where the pro-Palestinian, anti-Israel mob essentially sought to hijack Israel.
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: the grief of Israel and Jews to make their points
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: yet again.
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: Your observations on that?
• 26:35
  Speaker 13: Well, I think hijack is the appropriate word here. And
• 26:38
  Speaker 13: we have seen, certainly over the last three years, 7th
• 26:42
  Speaker 13: of October denialism emerging, seeking to erase the experience of
• 26:49
  Speaker 13: the Jewish people on the 7th of October and supplant
• 26:52
  Speaker 13: that with these false accusations of genocide.
• 26:54
  Speaker 10: Indeed, in my hometown of London.
• 26:57
  Speaker 13: there were marches that I can only describe as pro-Hamas marches,
• 27:03
  Speaker 13: given the significance of the occasion and, in fact, the
• 27:06
  Speaker 13: celebration of so-called martyrs, those terrorist combatants that have been
• 27:11
  Speaker 13: eliminated in the war that resulted from the 7th of October.
• 27:15
  Speaker 13: We're living through, I think, a topsy-turvy environment, but yesterday
• 27:19
  Speaker 13: marked a very stark reminder of the inversion, the abuse,
• 27:24
  Speaker 13: the erasure, and, as you correctly say, the hijacking both
• 27:28
  Speaker 13: of the 7th of October and of, frankly, the broader
• 27:31
  Speaker 13: war against Western civilisation.
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: You highlighted at the top of the program tonight that
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: some of the pro-Palestinian groups in Australia now are openly
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: calling for the delisting of Hamas, Hezbollah and even the
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: Islamic Jihad of Palestine from our terror groups.
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: They want them made legal, these organisations, in Australia now.
• 27:55
  Speaker 14: It's absurd.
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: It's absurd.
• 27:58
  Speaker 13: But it's part and parcel, isn't it, of this equally
• 28:01
  Speaker 13: absurd notion that, you know, resistance is justified and the
• 28:04
  Speaker 13: inversion of international law to seek to promote that false
• 28:08
  Speaker 13: narrative is a big player in this.
• 28:13
  Speaker 10: You've mentioned, though, of course, the false reporting from the region.
• 28:16
  Speaker 13: And I would say that there is a strong link between.
• 28:20
  Speaker 10: Unfortunately, the way that mainstream media especially has covered not
• 28:24
  Speaker 10: just the last.
• 28:25
  Speaker 12: Three years, but, you.
• 28:28
  Speaker 10: And the influence of.
• 28:30
  Speaker 13: These very organizations that you've just listed, internationally prescribed terrorist organizations, Hamas,
• 28:36
  Speaker 13: Hezbollah included, that have been controlling the media narrative from.
• 28:41
  Speaker 10: This region since before I can remember.
• 28:43
  Speaker 13: I know you'll be familiar with my dear friend and
• 28:47
  Speaker 13: colleague Douglas Murray, who, when he was embedded with journalists
• 28:51
  Speaker 13: in Lebanon, said that his international colleagues were very open
• 28:55
  Speaker 13: about the fact they had to be very careful.
• 28:57
  Speaker 10: What they were reporting.
• 28:58
  Speaker 13: Because of their colleagues in Beirut and what Hezbollah would
• 29:01
  Speaker 13: do to them.
• 29:02
  Speaker 10: If they said the wrong thing.
• 29:03
  Speaker 13: So not even the journalists themselves, but other colleagues from
• 29:05
  Speaker 13: the same network that would have been at risk, had
• 29:08
  Speaker 13: they reported truthfully and accurately. And of course, the knock-on
• 29:12
  Speaker 13: effect of all of this reporting according to the censorship,
• 29:16
  Speaker 13: and in many respects, unfortunately, self-censorship, where journalistic integrity seems
• 29:20
  Speaker 13: to have gone out of the window, The knock-on effect
• 29:23
  Speaker 13: of reporting according to what internationally prescribed terrorist organizations want
• 29:26
  Speaker 13: you to say is palpable.
• 29:28
  Speaker 10: We've seen it on our streets.
• 29:29
  Speaker 13: We've seen it in our political discourse and the policy
• 29:33
  Speaker 13: decisions that are increasingly now being taken by so-called allies
• 29:36
  Speaker 13: of Israel against the only Jewish state.
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, which is why your work is so important and
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: so brave over so many years. I want to go
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: through some of these issues, then I'll use an example
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: of our government. Here's a little clip of what our
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: Prime Minister said about Israel. This is on the day
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: just over a year ago now where he actually recognised,
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: on behalf of Australia, the non-existent state of Palestine, but
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: he said this about Israel.
• 30:01
  Speaker 4: We are seeing the Israeli government continue to provide support
• 30:08
  Speaker 4: for illegal settlements and an expansion in the West Bank.
• 30:13
  Speaker 4: We're seeing a catastrophic humanitarian crisis unfold in Gaza. The
• 30:20
  Speaker 4: idea that Israel is just sitting back waiting to negotiate
• 30:26
  Speaker 4: is not what is happening here. This is about the
• 30:31
  Speaker 4: world saying enough is enough.
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: Natasha, let's pick on illegal settlements, which he rattles off
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: there and we hear so often. Are the Israeli settlements
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: in the West Bank illegal?
• 30:45
  Speaker 10: In a word, no.
• 30:47
  Speaker 13: And this is one of the primary examples of the
• 30:49
  Speaker 13: weaponisation of international law. It's predicated on a false basis
• 30:54
  Speaker 13: in the first instance that this is occupied territory.
• 30:57
  Speaker 10: We're talking about disputed territory here. This is very frequently.
• 31:01
  Speaker 13: Described as the biblical homeland, so Judea and Samaria, but
• 31:04
  Speaker 13: critically from an international law perspective, and this is a
• 31:07
  Speaker 13: legal term that your prime minister was advancing, this was
• 31:11
  Speaker 13: Israeli sovereign territory according to a universal application of international
• 31:15
  Speaker 13: law to Israel's borders when it obtained independence in 1948.
• 31:19
  Speaker 13: Jordan occupied that territory from Israel, and when it recovered
• 31:23
  Speaker 13: that territory, Israel applied its law, administration, and jurisdiction in
• 31:27
  Speaker 13: full to Jerusalem, That has been its capital city since
• 31:32
  Speaker 13: the founding of the state, but the United City of
• 31:34
  Speaker 13: Jerusalem is Israel's capital to this day.
• 31:38
  Speaker 10: And the.
• 31:41
  Speaker 13: Second aspect of the kind of inversion of international law
• 31:44
  Speaker 13: is that it takes this sovereign territory of Israel, it
• 31:46
  Speaker 13: applies the term occupation to it improperly, and then it
• 31:51
  Speaker 13: suggests that the transfer of citizens to these settlements has
• 31:56
  Speaker 13: been taking place by the state. It calls it state transfer,
• 32:00
  Speaker 13: and it suggests, therefore, that this is unlawful on the
• 32:03
  Speaker 13: basis of quite an obscure provision, I hope you'll forgive me,
• 32:07
  Speaker 13: Article 49.6 of the Fortune of a Convention.
• 32:10
  Speaker 10: Now, the origins of that article are very important.
• 32:13
  Speaker 13: This was written in response to the Nazi practice of
• 32:16
  Speaker 13: forcibly deporting populations of which it wished to rid itself.
• 32:20
  Speaker 10: Into occupied territory.
• 32:22
  Speaker 13: Ironically, you may think, this was primarily Jews of Europe
• 32:26
  Speaker 13: that were being deported from to concentration.
• 32:28
  Speaker 10: Camps, to forced labor camps, to extermination camps.
• 32:30
  Speaker 13: This is the provision that is now being inverted and abused,
• 32:34
  Speaker 13: a provision against state transfer that is being used to
• 32:37
  Speaker 13: suggest that Jews moving to Judea and Samaria of their
• 32:41
  Speaker 13: own volition as an expression of their own free will
• 32:44
  Speaker 13: is illegal, is essentially an inversion of international law which
• 32:47
  Speaker 13: is being used to justify this call for the ethnic
• 32:51
  Speaker 13: cleansing of this land of Jews. It's a call that's
• 32:54
  Speaker 13: been echoed, of course, by the International Court of Justice,
• 32:56
  Speaker 13: by many other NGOs that does not make it in
• 32:58
  Speaker 13: any way legitimate, suggesting that Judea and Samaria, sometimes called
• 33:03
  Speaker 13: the West Bank, needs to be Judenrein to continue.
• 33:06
  Speaker 10: That analysis or that analogy from the Second World War.
• 33:10
  Speaker 10: This is what they're calling for, this land to be
• 33:12
  Speaker 10: free of Jews.
• 33:13
  Speaker 13: And they are inverting international law to seek to justify
• 33:16
  Speaker 13: what is a morally reprehensible law.
• 33:19
  Speaker 10: Position.
• 33:20
  Speaker 13: Of course, the Prime Minister is not the only Australian
• 33:23
  Speaker 13: I've called out of late for promoting falsehoods. Unfortunately, Penny
• 33:27
  Speaker 13: Wong entirely falsely claimed that 15,000 Palestinian children were being
• 33:33
  Speaker 13: displaced in the West Bank. And that is entirely false.
• 33:38
  Speaker 13: I called it out at the UN only last week.
• 33:40
  Speaker 13: I still haven't seen a retraction from your foreign minister, which.
• 33:44
  Speaker 10: Is deeply troubling.
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, she won't even explain. She won't even explain where
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: that number came from. She's just pretending it away. I
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: want to go to another key claim that's so often
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: made against Israel. Here it is from one of our
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: Greens politicians.
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: He happens to be the new Greens leader. Have a
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: listen to David Shoebridge.
• 34:01
  Speaker 3: Australia should join with every other willing country willing to
• 34:04
  Speaker 3: support international law and oppose a genocide and place immediate
• 34:09
  Speaker 3: sanctions on Israel.
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: Now, Natasha, I just think the term genocide is just ridiculous,
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: given what we understand of the English language and what's
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: going on in Gaza, the very small number of civilian casualties,
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: the fact that over many decades the Palestinian population has
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: been growing faster than the rest of the Israeli population,
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: the fact that Israel provides food, shelter, medical aid.
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: And all the rest of it.
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: But give us the legal analysis of whether genocide is
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: actually plausible.
• 34:41
  Speaker 13: Well, it's not just those issues that you've raised, but
• 34:44
  Speaker 13: at the core of the crime of genocide is the
• 34:46
  Speaker 13: intention to eradicate an ethnic, national, racial group in whole
• 34:52
  Speaker 13: or in part as such. You are targeting these people
• 34:55
  Speaker 13: for extermination.
• 34:56
  Speaker 10: Because of the group that they live in or the
• 34:58
  Speaker 10: group that they constitute.
• 35:00
  Speaker 13: And, of course, Israel's approach to armed conflict is second
• 35:05
  Speaker 13: to none in terms of preventing civilian casualties and ensuring...
• 35:09
  Speaker 13: that it is striking as directly and as accurately as possible,
• 35:15
  Speaker 13: Hamas and other combatant terrorists in the Gaza Strip and elsewhere.
• 35:19
  Speaker 13: Of course, this war has been far broader across seven
• 35:22
  Speaker 13: kinetic fronts against many other Iranian proxies. But this is
• 35:28
  Speaker 13: part and parcel of the sort of projection. I mentioned,
• 35:31
  Speaker 13: of course, the inversion of the Geneva Conventions and that
• 35:34
  Speaker 13: were drafted in response to the Jewish experience and the
• 35:38
  Speaker 13: Holocaust are being forcibly deported. I mean, here we have
• 35:41
  Speaker 13: a term genocide that was drafted, that was coined in
• 35:44
  Speaker 13: response to the Jewish experience of being targeted for extermination
• 35:47
  Speaker 13: because they were Jews. It's not by accident that this
• 35:50
  Speaker 13: is a false charge now being inverted and being used
• 35:54
  Speaker 13: against the Jewish people in Israel. It's part and parcel
• 35:58
  Speaker 13: of a pattern of inversion and a pattern of projection.
• 36:02
  Speaker 10: What was done to the Jews is ultimately... what the
• 36:04
  Speaker 10: Jews are accused of doing. So I think it's.
• 36:06
  Speaker 13: Important to understand why that false charge of genocide is
• 36:10
  Speaker 13: being levied. It is to put Israel beyond the pale,
• 36:13
  Speaker 13: to shut down debate, and to essentially create a fait
• 36:16
  Speaker 13: accompli that it is an evil, rogue state. It is
• 36:19
  Speaker 13: not because there is an iota of truth in what
• 36:23
  Speaker 13: is being claimed. And I think it's very interesting that
• 36:25
  Speaker 13: in the clip that you played, as in so many
• 36:28
  Speaker 13: of these speeches that we're hearing against Israel, international law.
• 36:32
  Speaker 10: Is being used in vain.
• 36:33
  Speaker 13: It is being introduced into this equation as a way
• 36:38
  Speaker 13: of justifying what is inherently a problematic position to take
• 36:42
  Speaker 13: in the law, on the facts, and in the interests
• 36:45
  Speaker 13: of Australia, given the important relationship that has always existed
• 36:49
  Speaker 13: between Israel and Australia because of the shared values, those
• 36:54
  Speaker 13: values key to Western civilisation and that are inherent to
• 36:58
  Speaker 13: both states.
• 36:59
  Speaker 10: I mean, all of that is.
• 37:00
  Speaker 13: Under threat and it is international law itself that is
• 37:03
  Speaker 13: being inverted and abused to promote this particular agenda.
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: Natasha, so great to get your insights. We are out
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: of time.
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: I hope we can catch up with you again soon
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: because there's so much more to discuss. Thank you, Natasha
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: Hausdorff there, coming to us live from Israel. We've got
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: to get to a break. On the other side, we'll
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: get into the immigration debate. I'll catch up with the
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: Coalition's Andrew Hastie.
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: Don't go away. Let's catch up with.
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: Shadow Industry and Sovereign Capability Minister Andrew Hastie, who joins
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: us live from Perth.
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: Good to talk to you, Andrew. Yeah, great to be
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: with you, Chris.
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: Look, as I recall, you resigned from the shadow portfolio
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: of Home Affairs because you weren't able to actually control
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: the Coalition's immigration policy. That's how important the immigration policy
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: of the Coalition was to you. So now that it's
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: out there and we've got all this detail, give us
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: your assessment. Is this the sort of policy you would
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: have liked to have delivered in that portfolio?
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: That's right.
• 38:05
  Speaker 15: I think the Australian people have been signalling that they
• 38:07
  Speaker 15: want to see cuts to immigration for some time now.
• 38:10
  Speaker 15: That was partly the reason I resigned from the front
• 38:12
  Speaker 15: bench last year. And Angus Taylor and John O'Donoghue and
• 38:16
  Speaker 15: the rest of the team have delivered a very robust
• 38:19
  Speaker 15: set of policies here to deal with immigration, to cut
• 38:23
  Speaker 15: the numbers, but also to raise the standards and to
• 38:25
  Speaker 15: make sure that it's budget neutral as well, which is
• 38:28
  Speaker 15: really important for the economy.
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that is important and that's where there'll be a
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: lot of focus. You've got Labor trying to say it
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: would damage the economy, but you're relying on the Parliamentary
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: Budget Office. And this argument also, when you're bringing in
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: the most productive people who are not only going to
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: help with delivering economic capacity in this country but pay
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: more taxes, it tends to make sense economically.
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: Well, that's right.
• 38:54
  Speaker 15: We're getting rid of 650,000... temporary visas over the next
• 38:59
  Speaker 15: four years, or if elected in 2028, over a four-year period. 100,000, 100,000, 130,000,
• 39:05
  Speaker 15: 160,000 will be the respective norms over that four-year period.
• 39:08
  Speaker 15: And at the same time, upping the amount of skilled
• 39:11
  Speaker 15: migrants who come to this country, because we want people
• 39:13
  Speaker 15: who are qualified and who are going to work in
• 39:15
  Speaker 15: the sectors where we actually need them. Aged care, health care, construction,
• 39:20
  Speaker 15: and in places across this country that depend upon skilled
• 39:24
  Speaker 15: labour for their hospitality and tourism in the regions particularly.
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: Tell us about the quality... control, for want of a
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: better word. Angus Taylor said many times he wants to
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: lift the standards as well as.
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: He wants to reduce the numbers and lift the standards.
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: And we understand that when it comes to qualifications and trades,
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: you know, the people with the skills we want.
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: But what about values?
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: How are we going to prevent this country importing some
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: of the Islamist extremism or other ideologies around the world
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: that we simply don't want?
• 39:58
  Speaker 15: Well, we've talked for some time about having an Australian
• 40:00
  Speaker 15: values test. Anyone who wants to come to this country,
• 40:04
  Speaker 15: get a visa, ultimately settle and become an Australian citizen
• 40:07
  Speaker 15: must share our values, must sign up to those values.
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: And they'll be part of a character test.
• 40:12
  Speaker 15: You break those values or you show contempt for those
• 40:15
  Speaker 15: values and we'll cancel your visa. So we're going to
• 40:18
  Speaker 15: make it very clear that Australian democracy will only survive
• 40:21
  Speaker 15: into the future if we have a set of common loves.
• 40:25
  Speaker 15: We all love our families, but we've also got to
• 40:26
  Speaker 15: love our country. We've got to love our institutions. We've
• 40:30
  Speaker 15: got to share a common language in English. And regardless
• 40:34
  Speaker 15: of what our differences might be, they might be ethnic,
• 40:36
  Speaker 15: they might be cultural, we can still live together if
• 40:38
  Speaker 15: we have a common vision of this country that is Australia.
• 40:41
  Speaker 15: And that's where the Australian Values Test, which we're going
• 40:44
  Speaker 15: to enforce, is so important.
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: I was just showing at.
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: The top of the program how a Palestinian action group
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: in Sydney actually wants the terror listings for groups like
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: Hamas and Hezbollah and Islamic Jihad lifted. I mean, that's
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: how some Australians in this country now work against the
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: values of this country. So, apart from asking new immigrants
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: to sign up to these values, how do we build
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: these values, that love of country, for instance, back into
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: our whole national psyche?
• 41:17
  Speaker 15: It's a really good question, and I think militant Islam
• 41:19
  Speaker 15: has been a real corrosive force in parts of the country,
• 41:23
  Speaker 15: which is why we saw the shootings at Bondi last year.
• 41:26
  Speaker 15: And so it's really important that our education system teaches a.
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: Positive vision of our country.
• 41:34
  Speaker 15: This is a unique Australian experiment. I was in Sydney
• 41:37
  Speaker 15: over the last couple of days with the Joint Select
• 41:39
  Speaker 15: Committee for Artificial Intelligence, and I was just marvelling once
• 41:42
  Speaker 15: again at the harbour and the city that's.
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: Been built up around it.
• 41:45
  Speaker 15: Over the last 250 years or so, it's an incredible achievement.
• 41:49
  Speaker 15: Australia is an experiment, though, and the only way it continues,
• 41:52
  Speaker 15: if we have people who share our values and share
• 41:56
  Speaker 15: common loves, and that's what the standards we are going
• 42:00
  Speaker 15: to insist upon are going to do, and that's why
• 42:02
  Speaker 15: they're so important.
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I just think the overwhelming majority of the country
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: would agree with you, but I just think that from
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: our preschools to our schools and our universities, they're working
• 42:14
  Speaker 2: against this. We've got to instil some national values right
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: from the get-go.
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: Everybody's got a role in it.
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: Just on the numbers with immigration, we've seen Labor overshoot
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: its targets time and time again. How can you make
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: sure that the net overseas migration is actually kept to 100,000?
• 42:34
  Speaker 15: That's a really good question, Chris. And in the end,
• 42:36
  Speaker 15: implementation is what matters. You can say everything from opposition,
• 42:40
  Speaker 15: but you've actually got to deliver in government. And I
• 42:43
  Speaker 15: think what I've seen from Angus Taylor as the opposition leader,
• 42:45
  Speaker 15: as he's led us through this policy process, is that
• 42:47
  Speaker 15: he understands the challenges. And I think we've got a
• 42:50
  Speaker 15: pathway here to deliver lower immigration. We're going to abolish
• 42:53
  Speaker 15: the temporary graduate visas. And we're going to also.
• 42:59
  Speaker 15: Process a lot of these bridging visas. There's been a
• 43:01
  Speaker 15: lot of visa hopping and our universities have been acting
• 43:03
  Speaker 15: as visa mills, which is why we have so many
• 43:05
  Speaker 15: temporary visas in this country. Abolishing the temporary graduate visas
• 43:09
  Speaker 15: will send a signal that universities are there first and
• 43:12
  Speaker 15: foremost to educate Australians, but secondly, to do research of
• 43:15
  Speaker 15: national significance. And if people who come here and study
• 43:19
  Speaker 15: at our universities, which we encourage, that's fine. But if
• 43:22
  Speaker 15: they want a job here, they have to go offshore
• 43:24
  Speaker 15: and then apply for a skilled migration visa.
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: Great stuff. Thanks for joining us, Andrew. I appreciate it.
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: Andrew Hastie there, live from Perth.
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: I won't bother asking him about what's happening in the
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: Shadow Cabinet, but Jonathan Dunnian, the current Home Affairs Shadow Minister,
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: is retiring at the next election. Let's hope Angus Taylor
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: puts Andrew Hastie back into that portfolio. After this break,
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: I'll be back with Mark and Tim for the National Cabinet. OK,
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: the National Cabinet is in session again. We've got Mark
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: Nicholson back. We've got Tim Blair on standby as well.
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: I want to start with you, Mark, as the putative
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: politician in our midst.
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: How come you didn't get a flag to the Pacific, mate?
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: You would have had a lot of fun over there
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: with Chris Bowen and Anthony Albanese in Hawaiian shirts and
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: talking up the threat of climate Armageddon.
• 44:19
  Speaker 16: I know, mate. I know. I love a junket.
• 44:21
  Speaker 12: It would have been excellent.
• 44:22
  Speaker 16: You can tell these blokes love the junket as well
• 44:24
  Speaker 16: by the lazy eyes. They had a big night the
• 44:27
  Speaker 16: night before. I reckon they must have had a huge
• 44:29
  Speaker 16: night at the junket. Either that or the speakers are
• 44:32
  Speaker 16: really far away and they're squinting. I'm not sure yet.
• 44:35
  Speaker 16: I'm sure they'll give out some lie as to why.
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: Look at him go.
• 44:38
  Speaker 16: Look at him not off there.
• 44:39
  Speaker 9: Oh, Bowen, look at him go.
• 44:41
  Speaker 16: Big night the night before at the junket.
• 44:43
  Speaker 17: Crazy stuff.
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: And I think I know what he was dreaming of, Tim,
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: a V8.
• 44:49
  Speaker 6: Look, he needs a bit of renewable energy, doesn't he?
• 44:53
  Speaker 6: He's not exactly firing up there. He needs a bit
• 44:55
  Speaker 6: of a nuclear rev up, but My goodness, I do
• 44:59
  Speaker 6: envy those shirts. You've been showing them.
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: To me all week, Chris.
• 45:02
  Speaker 6: And I feel... For once, I feel underdressed. Those guys
• 45:06
  Speaker 6: are setting a great standard.
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: We showed Tim's Hawaiian shirts collection earlier in the week.
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: I don't think we can get up again for you now.
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: But I tell you what, I thought the Liberals made
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: a good social media ad out of all of this.
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: I know, Mark, you and One Nation have been leading
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: the charge when it comes to this stuff, but have
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: a look at the Liberal ad.
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: It kind of wrote itself.
• 45:28
  Speaker 17: I think we should add, I think the Liberals put
• 45:49
  Speaker 17: their own soundtrack there, Tim.
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: It wasn't Uncle Arthur on the piano.
• 45:54
  Speaker 6: Just think how much... Think how much ground the Liberals
• 45:57
  Speaker 6: could have made against Labor if they'd held their nerve,
• 46:00
  Speaker 6: excuse me, on climate change for this entire time. They're
• 46:03
  Speaker 6: a bit late to the party, so to speak.
• 46:05
  Speaker 12: Aren't they?
• 46:05
  Speaker 6: But, you know, good on them for realising what most
• 46:07
  Speaker 6: Australians think, that this climate change stuff is ridiculous, that
• 46:11
  Speaker 6: all these Pacific Islands going for Australian money is just
• 46:14
  Speaker 6: a shakedown operation. And the shirts. Oh, God, they're good shirts.
• 46:18
  Speaker 6: I want some of the shirts.
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: He loves the shirts. Right, let's get to the controversial bit.
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: Mark, you made a bit of news yourself last weekend
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: when you said this at the One Nation campaign launch.
• 46:29
  Speaker 8: By the way, Dan Andrews, just get your arms up there.
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: Have them all in jail by Christmas. Now, I was
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: critical of you, Mark. Pauline Hanson backed you in there.
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: But when you're a politician now, people take this stuff seriously.
• 46:49
  Speaker 12: I'll never be a politician, mate.
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: But yeah, you're right. Pauline backed me in.
• 46:52
  Speaker 16: Nearly everyone's backed me in. Broke my little heart when
• 46:55
  Speaker 16: I turned on Chris Kenny on Monday night. I was like,
• 46:59
  Speaker 16: I wonder what Chris will back me in here. And
• 47:00
  Speaker 16: then I broke my little heart to see you do that.
• 47:03
  Speaker 16: But I tell you what, there's only two groups of
• 47:06
  Speaker 16: people that are upset, the media and everyone else that
• 47:09
  Speaker 16: is upset that they have to wait till Christmas to
• 47:11
  Speaker 16: see those two in jail.
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: They're the only two people that are upset.
• 47:14
  Speaker 16: Everyone else is very, very positive about what I said,
• 47:17
  Speaker 16: because at the end of the day, what other CEO
• 47:19
  Speaker 16: of a private company could let $ 15 billion of your
• 47:22
  Speaker 16: money disappear and ride off into the sunset into Bendigo
• 47:26
  Speaker 16: or some mansion in the Mornington Peninsula and collect a
• 47:30
  Speaker 16: Premier's pension, of all things? Like, no one would allow that.
• 47:33
  Speaker 16: heads should roll, and that's precisely the sentiment that I
• 47:36
  Speaker 16: said at that rally.
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: Let's hope there's an investigation. Let's hope that if there's
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: anything that's happened that's illegal, that there are prosecutions, but.
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: Due process? Forget about it. We want due process.
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: We want... Forgive me for wanting due process. I love
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: your cartoons, but I want a bit of due process.
• 47:54
  Speaker 16: Let's give them a slap in the wrist in good time, yeah?
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: OK, what was I supposed to say?
• 47:58
  Speaker 12: We want to slap on the wrist in due course.
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: Come on, mate, it's a rally.
• 48:02
  Speaker 16: We're going to pump the gas a little bit.
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: I tell you what, that would be great.
• 48:07
  Speaker 2: Give Daniel Andrews a taste of his own rough justice,
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: you know. Slap on the wrist and out on bail.
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Great stuff.
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: Hey, while we're having a laugh, let's go to one
• 48:17
  Speaker 2: of our favourite politicians for a laugh, and that is
• 48:20
  Speaker 2: the former Vice President of the Great Republic, Kamala Harris.
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: Here she is rallying the troops for the... You know, our.
• 48:28
  Speaker 12: Founders, they imagined a moment like this.
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: They imagined that there would be a moment where there
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: may be a tyrant occupying.
• 48:41
  Speaker 12: The White House.
• 48:42
  Speaker 10: They imagined a moment, I suppose.
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: Where there would be a bunch of people bending the
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: knee at the foot of the tyrant.
• 48:50
  Speaker 2: Tim, the brilliance here is this great imagination she's talking about.
• 48:53
  Speaker 2: It's actually a vote. She's talking about people getting to
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: vote in elections. What a breakthrough.
• 48:59
  Speaker 6: Whenever she's speaking, though, don't you feel transported back to
• 49:02
  Speaker 6: your single days when you're cornered by a woman who's
• 49:04
  Speaker 6: just had that one Chardonnay too many at a bar?
• 49:07
  Speaker 6: And let me tell you, you're my friend. You're my
• 49:12
  Speaker 6: best friend. I don't like you. She does like a drink,
• 49:16
  Speaker 6: let's admit it. It might be her best quality.
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: It might be.
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: She's a good laugh and she might be a good
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: drinking buddy. Thanks for joining us, gentlemen. Slightly curtailed this week.
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: We'll catch you next week. Here's Peter Quedlin. Welcome back, Peter.