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Apologetics and Evangelism: Methods and Critiques · Reformed Thinking

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Welcome to reform thinking. And welcome to the deep dive.
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This is where we take your sources, unpack them, and really
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try to get to the core insights, the essential facts, helping you
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get well informed quickly and clearly.
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Yep. Each deep dive is tailored for
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you, our listener. We sift through the material
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you've shared and offer some guidance.
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And today we're diving into, well, a really interesting area,
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Christian apologetics. We're going to look at different
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ways people defend the Christian faith.
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Specifically, we'll be focusing on how different thinkers see
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the roles of human reason and divine revelation playing out.
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Right, we'll zero in on the methods of two major figures.
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William Lane Craig, who's known for classical apologetics.
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And John Frame, a key voice in presuppositionalism.
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Our mission then, is to sort of distill their distinct
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approaches, look at their assumptions, especially about
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knowledge and the effects of sin.
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And we'll see where they diverge naturally, but also maybe where
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they surprisingly overlap a bit. Get ready for some hopefully
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enlightening distinctions and thought provoking discussion.
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So maybe let's start right at the beginning.
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Apologetics. What exactly is that?
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It sounds a bit like apologizing, but that's not
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quite it, is it? No, not at all, though that's a
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common misconception. The word comes straight from
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Greek apologia. Yeah, it means defense.
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Think of making a case in court. So Christian apologetics is
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simply the reasoned defense of the Christian faith.
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Defending it against what exactly?
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Against charges that it's false or inconsistent or maybe just
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plain credulous. You know, believing without good
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reason. It's about making a case for why
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Christianity is true and reasonable.
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And you mentioned for this deep dive, we're not just doing
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apologetics, but looking at how it's done.
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Exactly. We're focusing on the
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methodology, the how. How should one go about
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constructing that defense? Because there are very different
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ideas about. That that's a key distinction.
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People often jump straight to arguments, you know, for God or
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the resurrection, but we're looking at the strategy
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underneath. And I take it these debates
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about strategy can get, well, pretty intense.
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Well, they certainly can. Discussions about methods,
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especially between classical and presuppositional folks.
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They can generate quite a bit of heat sometimes.
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Why is that just academic rivalry?
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It's more than that, I think. These aren't just abstract
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debates, they really stem from deep theological and
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philosophical disagreements. About what?
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About the nature of knowledge, the condition of humanity after
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the fall, how God interacts with our understanding.
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The stakes feel high because adherents believe their method
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is the most faithful description and, frankly, the most
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effective. OK, that makes sense.
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Well, as we get into these specific methods, it seems like
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both Craig and Frame are grappling with a really basic
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question, which is how do we show Christianity is true to
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someone who doesn't believe it? And how does that relate to how
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a believer personally knows it's true?
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That distinction feels foundational.
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It absolutely is. You've nailed a core tension for
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someone who believes there's often that inner witness of the
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Holy Spirit, right? A personal conviction that
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doesn't necessarily need external proofs, sure, but the
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challenge is how do you communicate that truth to
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someone without that initial conviction?
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How do you bridge that gap? Is it mainly about logic and
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evidence or something deeper? Precisely.
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Is the main barrier intellectual needing arguments?
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Or is it more about the will, the heart, maybe even spiritual
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blindness? Their answers really shape their
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methods. OK, let's start with William
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Lane Craig. He's probably one of the most
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recognized classical apologist today, famous for that two step
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method. Can you walk us through that?
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Sure, Craig's approach is very structured, very methodical.
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He definitely emphasizes reason and evidence as the main tools
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for, as he puts it, showing Christianity is true to an
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unbeliever. So step one.
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Step one is presenting arguments for theism generally just for
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the existence of God. The aim here is to show that
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God's existence is, quote at least, more probable than not.
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Using what kind of arguments? This usually involves natural
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theology that's trying to understand God through reason
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and looking at the natural world and you know, apart from the
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Bible initially. OK, so build a case for a
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creator first based on observation and logic, aiming
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for probability. What's Step 2?
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Step 2 is then to present specifically Christian
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evidences, again often framed probabilistically.
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The goal here is to show God's revelation in Christ.
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And the prime example for prick there is.
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The historical evidence for Jesus's resurrection, That's a
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huge focus for him. He uses arguments about the
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empty tomb, the appearances, the disciples transformation.
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To do what exactly? To connect the general concept
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of God from step one to the specific claims of Christianity.
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The overall goal is to present Christian theism as the most
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credible worldview available. It's like building a cumulative
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case. Layer by layer.
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Exactly. From general theism to specific
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Christian claims, he sees it as guiding someone logically
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towards accepting the faith. Now he makes a point about how
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he uses reason. He calls it a ministerial use.
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What's that about? Right.
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He draws that distinction actually from Luther.
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He contrasts A magisterial use of reason with the ministerial
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use. The magisterial versus
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ministerial. OK, a magisterial use is when
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reason stands over the gospel, like a judge deciding if it's
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true. Craig rejects that completely.
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So reason isn't the ultimate authority.
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No, he argues for a ministerial use where reason submits to and
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serves the gospel. Reason is a tool, a God-given
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servant helping us understand, explain, and defend the faith,
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but not sitting in judgment over it.
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That's an important clarification, and he's famous
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for specific arguments fitting this model.
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The Kalam Cosmological Argument is probably the big one for step
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one, right? Absolutely.
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The Kalam is a classic example. It's a deductive argument he
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uses to point towards a personal creator of the universe.
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Deductive meaning. Meaning if the premises are
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true, the conclusion has to follow logically.
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OK, what are the premises? The first is whatever begins to
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exist has a cause. Craig sees this as a a a
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metaphysically necessary truth and a properly basic belief.
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Properly basic, like self-evident.
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Sort of. It means you're justified in
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believing it without needing a separate argument for it, like
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believing the external world is real.
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He thinks denying this first premise, that something can't
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just pop into being from nothing, is basically
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irrational. OK, that seems pretty intuitive
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for most people. What's the second premise?
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The second premise is that the universe began to exist now.
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This one, he admits, is much more controversial.
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Because of scientific debates and things.
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Exactly. He brings in cosmology like The
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Big Bang evidence for the universe's expansion to support
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it. He also uses philosophical
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arguments against the idea of an actual infinite past.
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But you can't have an infinite number of past events.
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And the conclusion from those two premises?
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The conclusion is that the universe has a cause, and based
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on the nature of that cause needing to be beginningless,
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uncaused, immaterial, timeless, spaceless, powerful, and
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personal, he argues A sufficiently informed person
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ought to agree that it is more likely than not that a creator
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of the universe exists. More likely than not, so still
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probabilistic. Right, it's not meant is
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absolute proof, but as one link in the natural theologians
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cumulative case for theism, it pushes the needle towards
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belief. OK, so Kalam gets you
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potentially to a creator, but how do you get from that creator
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to the God of the Bible to Jesus?
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That's Step 2 with the resurrection.
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Precisely having argued for a creator, Craig then moves to the
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historical evidence for Jesus's resurrection.
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He presents this as an inductive argument.
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Inductive meaning based on evidence leading to a probable
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conclusion. Yes, the evidence makes the
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conclusion highly likely, but not logically certain.
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Like deduction. He argues that the best
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explanation for the known historical facts is that God
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raised Jesus from the dead. What facts does he focus on?
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Things like Jesus's burial by Joseph of Arimathea, the
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discovery of his empty tomb by women followers, the post mortem
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appearances to various people, individuals, groups, and the
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sudden transformation of the disciples from hiding in fear to
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boldly proclaiming the resurrection.
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And this historical case serves to to.
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Show that God has revealed himself in Christ.
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It connects the general God of step one to the specific actions
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and identity revealed in Jesus, making Christian theism the most
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plausible explanation overall. It seems like a very rational,
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evidence driven approach. Where does the Holy Spirit fit
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in if the arguments are doing the heavy lifting for showing
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the truth? That's a good question, Craig
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says. The Spirit's role in personally
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knowing Christianity is true is existential and prevenient.
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Prevenient meaning. Prevenient grace.
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It's the idea that God's grace goes before someone believes
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working in their heart. Craig believes the Spirit moves
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in unbelievers to dissolve their sinful prejudices and open their
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minds to an honest consideration of the arguments and evidence.
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So the spirit clears the way for the arguments to work.
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Kind of. The Spirit removes some of the
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internal sinful barriers, allowing the person to engage
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with the rational case fairly and freely choose to accept or
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reject it. It enables reason to function
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properly in this context. OK, that gives us a clear
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picture of Craig's classical method.
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But like any major approach, it's faced criticism.
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Let's start with someone like Gary Habermas, who's more of an
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evidentialist. He says Craig gives away the
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store. What's that about?
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Yeah, that's an interesting critique from a slightly
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different angle. Traditionally, strict classical
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apologetics insisted you had to establish God's existence before
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you could even talk about miracles like the resurrection.
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Why? The idea was without God,
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miracles don't make sense. But Habermas points out that
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Craig argues the resurrection itself reveals Jesus's own deity
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and points directly to God's action.
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So the resurrection becomes evidence for God, not just
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something that happens after you believe in God.
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Exactly. And Habermas says that makes
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Craig sound pretty much like an evidentialist, because
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evidentialists often start directly with evidence like the
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resurrection, without needing that separate proof for God
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first. So Havermas thinks Craig blurs
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the lines, making his approach less purely classical.
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Interesting nuance. Now, turning to the
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presuppositional side, John Fram has some much deeper criticisms.
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A big one is about the role, or maybe the absence of the Word of
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God in Craig's starting point. Yes, this is a fundamental
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disagreement Frame criticizes Craig for, in his view, almost
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entirely missing the role of the Word of God in his theory of
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knowledge, his epistemology. Frame highlights Craig's
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statement that you can't, without begging the question,
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use Scriptures as God's word to argue for the truth of God's
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Word. Meaning you can't assume the
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Bible is true to prove the Bible is true.
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Right, but for Frame, this implies Craig initially sets
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aside the Bible's authority. He treats it like any other
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historical document needing validation from outside neutral
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reason, rather than starting with it as the ultimate self
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attesting authority. Whereas Frame would say the
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Bible is the foundation. Exactly the very foundation for
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knowledge and reason, not something to be proven by
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reason. And this connects to Frame's
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idea that Craig is maybe a bit naive about the effects of sin
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on the mind, the noetic effects of sin.
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Yes, that's a huge point for Frame and presuppositionalists
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generally. Frame feels Craig doesn't fully
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grapple with the conceptual warfare involved.
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He argues Craig's method doesn't adequately take into account the
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biblical doctrine of sin, especially how sin corrupts our
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thinking, the noetic effects. What does frame mean by
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suppressing the truth? Frame point straight to Romans
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one arguing that unbelievers actively suppress the truth
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about God that they already know through creation and conscience.
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It's not just ignorance. It's willful.
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Yes, he insists, Their problem is first ethical and only
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secondarily intellectual. It stems from rebellious hearts
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against God, and that rebellion fundamentally distorts their
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reasoning. It leads to irrationality and
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contradictions. So it's not that they just
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haven't heard good arguments, but that their underlying
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rebellion prevents them from seeing the truth, even if
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presented clearly. That's the core idea.
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Frame uses the example. Someone might accept evidence
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for Napoleon easily, but reject equally strong evidence for
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Jesus's resurrection. Why not?
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Because the evidence is bad, but because their heart is at war
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with the implications. So the root issue isn't lack of
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information, but moral resistance.
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Precisely. Frame even calls Satan the
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paradigm of irrationality, incredibly intelligent, yet
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choosing rebellion against known truth.
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The problem isn't intellect, it's the will infecting the
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intellect. And Frame thinks Craig's method
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doesn't account for this enough. He suggests it might lead
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someone to accept Christian truth based on probability or
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reason, but without addressing the underlying heart issue.
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It might require a second conversion later for them to
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actually start thinking in a truly Christian way, grounded in
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God's authority, not just human reason.
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Which leads to maybe the sharpest critique.
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Does Craig grant too much autonomy to Human Reason, even
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with his ministerial qualification?
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This is probably the central philosophical objection from
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presuppositionalists. They argue that by asking
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unbelievers to evaluate arguments apart from Scripture
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initially, Craig effectively gives them a magisterial role,
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allowing human reason to judge God's truth.
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Putting reason in the driver's seat, essentially.
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Yes, from a Reformed perspective emphasizing God's sovereignty
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and human sinfulness, unbelievers don't have the right
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or the ability to neutrally judge God.
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They're already accountable to his revelation.
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The apologist job isn't to put God on trial, but to call for
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submission to His Word. What about Craig's view of the
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Holy Spirit? Does that satisfy the critics?
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Not entirely. Some critics find his
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description of the Spirit's witness may be a bit too
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subjective and experiential, or ultimately not enough to explain
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saving faith. And the prevenient grace idea?
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That's tied more to Armenian theology emphasizing the human
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ability to choose or reject grace once enabled.
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This contrasts with the Reformed view of irresistible grace,
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where the Spirit's work isn't just enabling but effectively
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brings about belief. So there's a perceived
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theological tension there, with Craig's reliance on rational
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argument preceding faith. And one last critique mentioned
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was about innate knowledge of God.
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Right. Craig's take on Romans 1 is seen
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by some critics as not clearly affirming what Calvin called the
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census divinitatus, an innate universal sense or knowledge of
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God that all people possess, even if they suppress it.
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Why is that important for apologetics?
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Because if everyone already knows God in some fundamental
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way but suppresses it, the apologetic task changes.
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It's less about presenting brand new information and more about
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confronting that suppressed knowledge, exposing the
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rebellion. It radically shifts the starting
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point and the nature of the conversation.
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OK, that lays out the classical approach and its critiques very
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well. Left pivot now to John Frame and
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presuppositional ISM, clearly a very different starting .0.
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Absolutely. It's rooted in a distinctively
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biblical epistemology from the get go.
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Frame starts with Proverbs. The fear of the Lord is the
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beginning of wisdom and knowledge.
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So knowledge itself begins with God, yes?
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For frame God's Word, the Bible isn't just a source for
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apologetics, It provides the very framework for all valid
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knowledge and reasoning. Human reason can't operate
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neutrally or independently of God's revelation.
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The Bible isn't just one source among others, then.
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Not at all. For Frame, the triune God
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revealed in the Bible is the ultimate presupposition and
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ultimate criterion of truth. It governs all reasoning.
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He states flatly, Faith governs reasoning.
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So. Reason is never neutral.
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Never, Frame argues reasoning doesn't happen in some realm
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that is neutral between faith and unbelief.
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There's no objective platform outside of God's reality from
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which to evaluate him. Attempting to find one is for
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frame and act of rebellion. And this leads to his strong
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rejection of neutrality in apologetics.
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Completely. He calls claiming neutrality a
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form of pride and even Satan's deception.
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He argues the unbeliever simply does not have the right to put
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God in the Bible on the table, to be examined by their own
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autonomous reason. Why not?
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Because God's authority is ultimate.
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You can't judge the ultimate standard by a lesser standard.
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The unbeliever is already living in God's world, subject to his
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laws, accountable to him, whether they admit it or not.
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And the noetic effects of sin seem even more central here than
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in the critique of Craig. Absolutely foundational frame
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constantly returns to Romans 1. Unbelievers actively suppress
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the truth they know about God from creation.
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This isn't simple ignorance. It's rooted in rebellious
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hearts. So again, the problem is
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primarily ethical than intellectual.
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Exactly. First ethical and only
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secondarily intellectual. And this ethical rebellion leads
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directly to irrationality and contradictions in thought, in
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life. Their minds are darkened because
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their hearts are resistant. But you said Frame believes they
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still sometimes acknowledge truth even while suppressing it.
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Yes, because they live. After all, in God's world.
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They can't completely escape reality.
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They have to operate using logic, cause and effect, maybe
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even have moral intuitions, all of which ultimately depend on
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God's created order, even as they deny Him.
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So the apologists job is to. Expose the inconsistency to show
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the unbeliever that their own worldview can't actually account
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for the very things they rely on, like reason, morality,
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beauty, without borrowing implicitly from the Christian
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framework. It's about revealing the
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internal contradictions of their unbelief by appealing to that
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suppressed knowledge of God's reality.
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And the Holy Spirit's role in this process for frame it must
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be crucial. Absolutely essential and
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sovereign Frame emphasizes that God causes faith by his free
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grace. The apologist proclaims the
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truth faithfully, but it's God who must plant faith.
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The Spirit works directly through the Word, confirming its
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truth to the heart, overcoming the rebellion and suppression.
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It's a sovereign internal work, not just clearing the way for
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arguments. OK, so if the Bible is the
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starting point and neutrality is out, how does frame argue for
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God? He uses transcendental
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arguments, right? How are those different?
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They are very different. Transcendental arguments in
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frames use aim to show that the biblical God is not merely as
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the conclusion to an argument, but as the one who makes
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argument possible. God makes argument possible.
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How? The idea is that God is the
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ultimate source of everything needed for argument and
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knowledge. All meaningful communication,
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all order, truth, beauty, goodness, logical validity, and
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empirical fact. Things like the laws of logic,
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the uniformity of nature, the science assumes, objective moral
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values. These only make ultimate sense
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if there's a God like the one the Bible reveals.
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So it's not just proving God exists, but arguing that without
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him, things like logic and truth wouldn't even be coherent.
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Precisely. The goal is to show the
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impossibility of the other world views, to demonstrate that if
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you try to reason without the Christian presupposition as your
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ultimate foundation, you eventually end up in
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meaninglessness and contradictions.
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Like asking an atheist how they ground the laws of logic.
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Exactly, If logic is just a byproduct of a random material
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process, why should it be universal, unchanging, and
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binding? What makes it true?
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Frame argues only a rational, unchanging God provides A
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sufficient foundation for such things.
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It shifts the argument from evidence for God to God as the
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precondition for evidence and reason itself.
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But doesn't this approach immediately face the charge of
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circular reasoning, starting with God to prove God?
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Frame anticipates and addresses this directly.
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He acknowledges a kind of circularity, but argues it's not
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vicious. How does he defend that?
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He reframes it, sometimes describing it linearly.
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God's rationality is the rational basis for human faith,
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which is a rational basis for human reasoning.
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But his main point is that every worldview, every philosophical
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system, ultimately relies on an ultimate standard or
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presupposition that is taken by faith.
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It can't be proven by something more foundational.
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So everyone starts somewhere unproven.
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Yes. Whether your ultimate starting
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point is human reason, sensory experience, or the God of the
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Bible, you're starting with something you accept as
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foundational. So in that sense, all world
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views are circular. The real question for frame is
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which circle? Which starting point provides
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the most coherent and comprehensive explanation for
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all of reality and experience? He argues only the Christian one
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does. That's a powerful counter
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argument. Does frame then just throw out
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all the traditional arguments Craig uses, like the
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cosmological argument or resurrection evidence?
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No, and this is where frame is maybe more nuanced than some
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earlier presuppositionalist. He explicitly states that
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traditional arguments for theism can be legitimately used within
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a transcendental framework. He reframes.
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Exactly. He doesn't use them as
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independent proofs, building up to God probabilistically.
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He integrates them to show how they point to God as the
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necessary precondition. For instance, the cosmological
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argument isn't just about a first 'cause it shows God as the
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author of causality, the ground of all meaning and order implied
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by cause and effect. It becomes a pointer to the
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transcendental necessity of God. So he sees value in them but
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used differently, yes. And interestingly, he actually
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praises Craig's work on the resurrection evidences, calling
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it among the best and of immense apologetic value.
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Really. That seems surprising.
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It is, but he adds that crucial presuppositional caveat.
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Craig underestimates the motivation of unbelieving
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scholarship to twist the evidence.
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Frame sees the evidence as strong, but insists the
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apologist must always address the unbeliever sinful tendency
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to suppress or distort that evidence due to their hearts
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rebellion. It's not just about presenting
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facts, but confronting the resistance to those facts.
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And does Frame advocate one single way of doing this, or
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does it vary? He strongly advocates for person
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variable apologetics. The approach needs to be
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tailored to the individual unbeliever and their specific
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worldview. How does that work?
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The apologist needs to listen carefully, understand the
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unbelievers foundational assumptions and then expose the
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internal inconsistencies of their system, showing how it
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fails to account for reality without borrowing from
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Christianity. It's diagnostic, aiming to show
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the inadequacy of their non Christian foundation.
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And the ultimate goal isn't just winning the debate.
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No. For Frame, the goal is always to
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evoke or strengthen faith. He stresses humility, avoiding
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contentiousness or arrogance, recognizing that conversion is
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God's work. The apologist is an instrument
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proclaiming God's truth and calling for repentance and
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faith, aiming to persuade, not just defeat.
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This has been really clarifying, laying out two quite different
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ways of thinking about apologetics.
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Let's try to pull back and summarize the core differences
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and then maybe touch on those surprising overlaps again, OK?
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The biggest difference, really is the starting point.
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Classical apologetics like Craig's tries to find common
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ground in reason or experience and build up to God in Christ,
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often probabilistically. Starting from below, so to
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speak. Right, whereas presuppositional
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ISM frames approach insists you must start with God's revelation
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in Scripture as the ultimate non negotiable foundation for all
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knowledge. Reason works within that
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framework, not outside it. There's no neutral ground.
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And that leads to different views of the unbeliever.
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Absolutely. Classical tends to see the
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problem more as intellectual, needing more evidence or better
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arguments. Presuppositionalism sees it
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primarily as ethical and spiritual active suppression of
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truth due to rebellion, which then affects the intellect.
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So their idea of common ground is different too, yes.
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Craig looks for common ground in shared rationality or sense
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perception. Frame finds common ground in the
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image of God, in the suppressed knowledge of God, Romans one
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within the unbeliever. The common ground isn't neutral,
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it's God's inescapable reality they're resisting.
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And even when they use evidence, they use it differently.
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Critically different Craig uses evidence to build probability,
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aiming to show Christianity is the most credible option.
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Frame uses evidence, including traditional arguments, more
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transcendently to expose the incoherence of non Christian
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worldviews and show that only Christianity provides the
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necessary foundation for things like logic, evidence, and
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morality to even make sense. Probability versus maybe
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necessity or certainty? That's a good way to put it.
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Craig aims to show Christianity is rationally probable.
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Frame argues ultimately that Christian truth is necessary for
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rationality itself, implying a kind of certainty grounded in
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God's nature. And that lightning rod issue the
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autonomy of reason. Yes, the core philosophical
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clash. Does classical apologetics grant
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fallen human reason the right to judge God's truth?
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Presuppositionalists say yes, and that's illegitimate.
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They insist reason must submit to God's Word from the start.
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Yet, despite these sharp distinctions you mentioned,
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frame is somewhat conciliatory. He is remarkably so in some
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ways. He doesn't see
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presuppositionalism as totally opposed to classical or
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evidential methods. He views it more as a
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foundational Christian epistemology that aims to
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supplement, clarify and sharpen those traditional approaches
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with biblical insights, particularly on sin and
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revelation. So he doesn't just dismiss
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Craig's work. No, he explicitly salutes the
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evidentialist tradition and recommends works by Craig and
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Habermas, even while wishing their foundations were more
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explicitly theistic and biblically grounded from the
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outset. He sees their arguments as
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potentially useful tools just needing to be placed in the
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right God centered framework. And this tendency towards
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finding common ground seems common in books comparing
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different views. It does seem that way sometimes.
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When authors are writing side by side in those views books, they
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might be a bit more cautious, perhaps more conciliatory, than
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in their standalone works. This could occasionally blur the
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distinctions a bit for the reader.
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It's often a good faith effort, but it can make the unique edges
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of each position seem less sharp.
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So after unpacking all this, what's the big take away about
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defending the faith? It seems everyone wants to
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ground truth, but they disagree fundamentally on where to start
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digging that foundation. That's a great summary.
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Whether you start with common human reason or with God's
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authoritative word, the goal is a coherent case for Christ.
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But your underlying theology, especially your view of sins,
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effect on the mind, the noetic effects, and the Holy Spirit's
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work deeply shapes which method you believe is faithful and
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effective. A Reformed view emphasizing
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sins, pervasive impact, and God's sovereign grace.
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Naturally leans towards a presuppositional approach where
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God's word must be the ultimate starting point and standard,
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because fallen reasons simply isn't capable of judging God
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neutrally or correctly on its own.
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So for you listening as you to encounter these different ways
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of thinking, it's helpful to consider your own assumptions.
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What's your starting point for knowledge?
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How does that shape what you accept as true or as valid
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evidence? Hopefully this deep dive gives
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you better discernment. And here's a final thought to
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chew on. Frame argues every worldview,
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whether religious or secular, rests on some ultimate
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presupposition taken by faith. If that's true, what does it
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tell us about conviction itself, not just in theology, but in
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science, ethics, politics, everything?
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What unproven foundation are you ultimately building your
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understanding of reality upon? We hope this exploration of
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William Lane Craig's and John Frames approaches has been
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valuable. Thank you for joining us on The
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Deep Dive. Until next time, keep seeking
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truth with clarity and discernment.