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Simulated Resistance · Mechonomist Podcast

• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: I'm reading James C.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_00: Scott's last book on domination,
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_00: and it brings up some interesting points about resistance.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: First,
• 0:13
  it sort of argues against Foucault and post-structuralists that
• 0:18
  domination is total
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_00: and that there's no resistance.
• 0:21
  And he argues basically that the same strategies that the
• 0:24
  powerful use to control discourse,
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: the oppressed use as a form of resistance.
• 0:32
  And that there's always a hidden narrative as well as a public narrative.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_00: And that the hidden narrative where the oppressed can speak freely,
• 0:40
  there's a totally different type of language and discourse than
• 0:45
  what is allowed in public.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: What's interesting to me is,
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: is that a lot of what,
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: um,
• 0:53
  Scott's research had done was to look at global South countries
• 1:00
  that were,
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_00: um,
• 1:01
  very totalitarian in the sense that they didn't allow any kind
• 1:05
  of public speak,
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_00: public speech,
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_00: basically at all.
• 1:08
  Any type of,
• 1:09
  you know,
• 1:10
  any type of speaking out could be met with severe sanctions or death.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: But in the,
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: in the West,
• 1:16
  I think it's a little bit different in the sense that there is
• 1:20
  an allowable type of resistance,
• 1:22
  but it's within a specifically narrow band and that resistance
• 1:27
  is essentially
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: simulated by institutions of capital.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_00: has a way to pacify the population.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: So you have the entire nonprofit industrial complex,
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_00: which lives off the tax relief of global capital,
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_00: which is allowed to sort of fight back,
• 1:48
  but it really just builds careers of professional managerial
• 1:52
  class professionals,
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_00: people with liberal arts degrees,
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: And people who are concerned with social justice,
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: it allows them to build careers,
• 2:02
  but it doesn't allow for any real type of resistance to capital
• 2:06
  or the powerful and
• 2:07
  anything that pops up that could be that type of resistance is
• 2:12
  either totally
• 2:13
  integrated into the system and nerfed or kicked out of the
• 2:16
  system completely.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: So what you see in the United States particularly is a very
• 2:25
  limited type of simulated resistance carried out by the
• 2:29
  nonprofit industrial
• 2:30
  complex that does nothing but pacify any type of real
• 2:36
  resistance from the population.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_00: But there is real resistance from the population.
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  It's just very typical of highly oppressed societies in the
• 2:46
  sense that it's the
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  SPEAKER_00: slowdowns at work.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's talking about getting in fights with the boss when you're
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: outside of the work environment,
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_00: it's a conspiracy theories and quote unquote disinformation.
• 3:02
  All this stuff is real forms of resistance and the fake
• 3:05
  resistance or the simulated
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: resistance is the resistance that's allowed in the public sphere,
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_00: which is that of,
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_00: academics and nonprofit professionals.
• 3:19
  I don't know what to really do about this because it's sort of
• 3:21
  like this everywhere.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um,
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  I think we need to practice more bringing new languages into
• 3:29
  the public sphere that
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  SPEAKER_00: actually do challenge the dominant narratives of the public sphere.
• 3:36
  And it's extremely difficult to bring those languages into the
• 3:39
  public sphere without them
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_00: They have to be approved of by the dominant institutions.
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  And you actually have to have some sort of transgressive
• 3:47
  institutions to be able to
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_00: bring those narratives into the dominant sphere.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_00: We don't have them.
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  SPEAKER_00: And if we ever do have transgressive institutions,
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_00: they're almost immediately incorporated into capital.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_00: That's my son.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_00: He's having a transgressive moment right now.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_00: He started babbling a lot.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's really difficult to get anything authentic into the public sphere,
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_00: but there's everyday resistance all the time.
• 4:12
  There's all sorts of transgressive narratives that go on in
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  shops and bars and hair salons.
• 4:20
  my my son on the floor and his transgressive narrative right
• 4:24
  now so there's all
• 4:25
  sorts of trains they're just not institutionalized and it's
• 4:29
  hard to see how they
• 4:30
  could be institutionalized and still be transgressive without
• 4:33
  first building
• 4:34
  transgressive institutions thank you hank hank is uh
• 4:42
  transgressing right now so
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_00: anyway so in summary um most of the resistance in the west
• 4:50
  there is resistance in the west but most of the resistance in
• 4:52
  the west is a
• 4:53
  simulated resistance and not a real resistance and it's
• 4:56
  designed to uh prevent any
• 5:00
  sort of real challenge to the authorities and the resistance
• 5:06
  the real resistance
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  that does happen in the west is sort of folk resistance and
• 5:11
  found in shops and bars
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  SPEAKER_00: and
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  SPEAKER_00: The floor of my house, my son is resisting me right now.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_00: And hair salons,
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  SPEAKER_00: but it never really makes its way into the public discourse,
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  SPEAKER_00: the public narrative,
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  because the institutions that control the public narrative
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  won't allow those types
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  SPEAKER_00: of narratives in,
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  SPEAKER_00: those type of resistance narratives in.
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  And those resistance narratives are often characterized as
• 5:38
  disinformation or fake
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  SPEAKER_00: news or conspiracy theories or
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  SPEAKER_00: It's often dismissed as the work of crazy people when that's actually,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know,
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  SPEAKER_00: if anybody's ever been in the shop,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know,
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  you're liable to hear any kind of crazy conspiracy theory that
• 5:56
  you could imagine.
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  And that's what people have at their fingertips to be able to
• 6:02
  explain why shit is the way it is.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's conspiracy theories and fake news and disinformation.
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  SPEAKER_00: It's not going to Berkeley and reading Marx.
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  SPEAKER_00: That's not real resistance.
• 6:12
  And how we get these types of narratives into the public sphere
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  where they can
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  SPEAKER_00: really challenge them,
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  SPEAKER_00: challenge the dominant institutions,
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  SPEAKER_00: we have to build our own grassroots institutions that somehow have a
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_00: counter-institutionalization of subaltern narratives.
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  SPEAKER_00: Problem is, as soon as it gets in the public sphere, it gets nerfed.
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  And we've seen that with everything from Black Lives Matter to
• 6:38
  Indigenous narratives.
• 6:40
  to the the women's movement we see how as soon as it gets
• 6:44
  incorporated into uh
• 6:46
  dominant institutions it becomes fake or simulated and at some
• 6:52
  point we're going to
• 6:53
  have to have our own institutions that are autonomous and that
• 6:57
  can carry our
• 6:58
  narratives without being beholden to capital anyway peace y'all
• 7:03
  we'll see y'all
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_00: next time