Latest / Most Things Kenobi - A Star Wars Podcast / Episode 135: Obi-Wan's "Mistakes" - Did he make any? If so, WERE they actually mistakes? Or was it all "fate" anyways?

Transcript

Episode 135: Obi-Wan's "Mistakes" - Did he make any? If so, WERE they actually mistakes? Or was it all "fate" anyways? · Most Things Kenobi - A Star Wars Podcast

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  It's Most Things Kenobi, an elegant podcast for a more
• 0:04
  civilized fandom. Hi everyone.
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  Welcome to another episode of Most Things Kenobi, a podcast
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  about Obi Wan Kenobi and all things Star Wars.
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  I'm your host, Lauren. And I'm your host, Liane.
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  And we're back. We're back and we're in one
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  piece, surprisingly. Yeah.
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  Kind of. Even though the New year has
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  tried to to stop that, we we here here and we have.
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  Succeeded. In surviving all sorts of insane
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  shit and it's only can. You imagine.
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  Two weeks into January. Yeah.
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  What? What is the date?
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  It's too soon. For this 14th and it feels like
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  we've been in January for a year now.
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  Yes, yes. So we hope everything's going
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  well for everyone out there. Yes, sorry we missed last week.
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  We've been traveling and we've been sick and we've we're.
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  From traveling. Yes, exactly.
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  We've been losing toenails from traveling and voice lost your
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  voice. I mean, it's just, you know,
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  it's fine. We're here.
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  We have our We have each other, Lauren.
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  But then we we, we both have blizzards.
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  It's freezing, freezing fucking cold.
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  And I'm, I usually turn my heat off.
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  I am not turning my heat off to record.
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  It is dangerously cold. So.
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  Yes, and we're we're wishing everyone warmth across at least
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  the United States, Canada, and that's about it for right now.
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  But if you're also cold, and you're not in the contiguous 48
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  states, we're wishing you warmth as well.
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  Yeah, and if you're in the southern hemisphere, enjoy your
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  summer. Enjoy your summer, we know
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  you're there and having a lovely time so.
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  So it's been a minute and I almost forgot what we were
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  supposed to talk about this week, but.
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  Obi Wan yes, Duh. You're on most things, Kenobi.
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  We might talk about Kenobi. I don't know.
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  I've missed Kenobi. I have.
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  Me too. It's.
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  I can't remember the last time we did an episode about.
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  I can't remember yesterday either.
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  So I mean don't use my memory as any kind of rubric to go by, but
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  I think we're talking about mistakes, quote, UN quote,
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  right. Obi Wan mistakes.
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  OK, which I thought, I don't know if you saw this, but when I
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  posted we were not going to do an episode last week because I
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  was sick and we would come back next week with conversations
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  about Obi Wan's mistakes, James Arnold Taylor commented.
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  What mistakes? Like what are you?
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  Well, I mean, that's what I have a feeling this is going to get
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  deep, because when I was trying to find Obi Wan's mistakes or
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  what I These are my beliefs and I know I'm going to raise ruffle
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  some feathers with one of them. But it begs the question, do we
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  ever really make any mistakes if it's the grand plan and it all
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  leads to where we are today and who that we are as a person?
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  Same thing applies to Obi Wan, right?
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  So I was thinking of this as I was trying to find some quote UN
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  quote mistakes and I thought, oh it's going to be fine because
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  everything ends up fine in the end.
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  Well, I think we even said this a little bit in our last
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  episode, but especially to each other.
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  When we say mistakes, like you said, like are they really
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  mistakes? It kind of depends on how you
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  want to look at it, the lens you want their.
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  Point of view, Yeah. So did we have a number?
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  I don't remember. If we did, I don't remember, but
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  I have at least two. OK, all right.
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  Me too. OK.
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  All right, usually we do three, but since neither of us can
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  remember and we're just we're just trying to live here, we'll
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  go with two. I jotted down some ideas that a
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  couple people sent to me as well, just they were.
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  They're not necessarily on my list, but they are ideas that
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  kind of float around. You know the fandom about Obi
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  Wan. Well, let's float.
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  OK I. Like I like floating.
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  So what was your first one then? I hate to even say this, because
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  do I have to go first? No, if you don't, I can go first
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  if you want. You go first.
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  I'm scared. All right, well, my first
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  mistake was growing a mullet. What God, thank God you went
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  first. Yours is way less serious than
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  mine. It's just a joke.
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  It's just a joke I have. I have a real one.
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  But. Oh well, it is a mistake.
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  And really nothing good did come of that, at least to us.
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  I know there's a fashion out there that we love the mullet.
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  I know you're right that, yeah, there are a lot of people who do
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  love it. I think the the Mullet and the
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  giant sleeves are just a mistake.
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  But in all seriousness, OK, I would say one of my biggest
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  problems with Obi Wan always has been that he lied to Luke.
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  Yeah, OK. All right.
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  So that was going to be my my runner up one.
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  Oh, really? OK.
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  Yeah. Yeah.
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  So I have the two and then I have like some more in case we
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  needed more. That was going to be like my
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  third one. So, yeah, yeah, yeah.
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  That has always really bothered me, even before I was like a
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  huge Obi Wan fan. I actually didn't like Obi Wan a
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  little bit until I watched The Clone Wars and now they've kind
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  of explained it all with the Kenobi series about the lying to
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  Luke about his father being murdered by Darth Vader, and
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  then allowing him to go into battle knowing he would face
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  Vader without knowing the truth. Sending him to kill his father
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  without telling him that that's what he was doing, that to me is
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  a huge moral issue. Personally, I find that
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  unethical and that Yoda went along with it.
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  It was just like just telling a person it's basically they were
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  using the parent thing. Like when parents tell kids,
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  because I said so like now. Yeah, not with a reason.
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  They were just telling him you got to just trust us and do what
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  we say because we say so. And we saw how well that worked
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  with Anakin. So well, I blame it all on like
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  Yoda and Obi Wan at this point. They blame that whole thing on
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  it being like a product of the old the old way.
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  Because how many times did they just send people, children like
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  Ahsoka into battle and said because that's what we do,
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  that's our job, that we we need you to do this.
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  And like how many questions were raised that were never answered
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  about the morality of what they were doing?
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  Were they peacekeepers? Were they not peacekeepers?
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  So the lack of specific information that Obi Wan and
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  Yoda kept from Luke, I have a tendency to blame on that being
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  like the old school way of thinking and they're just stuck
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  in it. Well, one's a force ghost, so I
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  don't know if you can be unstuck or stuck or what, but, you know,
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  Yoda could have piped up and said something, but he didn't.
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  And he was one of the biggest ones who kept shit from people.
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  You know, when Anakin showed up at his Hut or whatever, his room
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  or had a, you know, he talked to Yoda and he's like, I'm feeling
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  all these things. And Yoda talked to him in
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  riddles. Didn't really give you Anakin an
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  answer. Yes, that has always been a big
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  complaint to mine with Yoda. I know everyone reveres him a
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  lot but I feel like the way he communicates with people.
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  I don't know if he's trying to give them the chance to arrive
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  at the answer on their own, but really I think he does more harm
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  than good without just saying the truth.
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  Like just fucking say what you mean and people will get there
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  faster. Like I don't know, I think that
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  he's he is not a teacher who would do well for me personally.
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  I I can't stand that kind of non answer kind of bullshit.
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  So we understand now where Obi wan's coming from because the
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  Kenobi series has explained that Anakin said you know I killed
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  Anakin Skywalker. So now we know that's why Obi
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  Wan said that. But I still think it's wrong for
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  Obi Wan to use his own trauma or whatever you want to call it.
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  Like the the pain that he has from that interaction with
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  Anakin to not tell Luke the full truth.
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  And you know, if he was aware that his worst fear was his
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  father, perhaps that would have given him the the knowledge, I
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  guess I don't know, to protect himself from that.
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  Instead he just felt this anger with no understanding of why he
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  felt it and felt frustrated and didn't know why.
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  And no one was telling him that like, well, you have, you know,
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  this parent who has the same traits as you, but if you do
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  things this way, you know, maybe you'll protect yourself.
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  Well, I don't know. I just have always found that
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  duplicitous. And how could you ever trust a
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  thing any of your mentors said after something like that?
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  That's the big thing. I couldn't.
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  I don't think I could either. It shows you how big of a person
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  Luke actually is. Really.
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  Truly. I think so.
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  And when he goes back to Yoda in Return of the Jedi, and he's so
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  sweet and compassionate there and he, you know, he's found
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  his, his level, his balance. We don't know that yet because
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  they were still kind of implying in Return of the Jedi that he
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  could turn to the dark side, right?
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  But like, you think lying to a person, like the way they lied
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  to Anakin about like Rayko Hardeen and how that.
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  Oh, pushes him. You know, like they're doing the
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  exact same thing here with Luke, and it didn't work out well the
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  first time. Guys, it's not going to work out
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  well this time. OK, that's enough for me.
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  Well, it's a perfect segue. Oh, is it into my number one.
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  My number one is Rayko Hardeen and his decision to do that to
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  Anakin. And as a whole, I was going to
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  say Obi Wan's mistake of Anakin, but there's a balance there.
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  So I went with, I just went with Rico Hardeen because Obi Wan
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  made a conscious decision to do that.
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  And at this point in the story, Anakin is so sensitive.
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  He's just, he's like on the brink with his emotions and
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  everything is so raw and everything's so touchy and he's
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  getting more powerful. He's starting to have these
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  thoughts. Maybe no one else knows this,
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  but Obi Wan of all people should have known it.
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  Yeah. That's his best friend, his
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  brother. And when I said I was going to
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  say Anakin, all of Anakin it it I wanted to say that's where I
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  was thinking like, yeah, but was was Anakin Obi Wan's mistake.
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  Like, I know we had the scene in the Kenobi show where Anakin
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  literally says I am not your. I'm not your failure.
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  I'm not your failure, and I know Obi Wan feels regret for Anakin,
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  and I know Anakin feels regret for everything I There's a
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  little bit in there, there's a little bit and it's dying and
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  it's turning into Vader and it's this horrible scene, right?
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  That's why it makes that scene so raw.
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  But everything that happened between them led to what needed
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  to happen with Luke, and you could even say Ahsoka and all
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  this stuff. So I wanted to pick like one
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  incident where I I feel like he made a conscious decision.
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  Because I guess you could say that every decision Obi Wan made
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  to, like, look past one of Anakin's grievances was a
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  mistake. But.
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  I have to believe that we as humans, whether we're in the
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  Galaxy or we're here on planet Earth, that we're just doing the
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  best we can at the time with what we have.
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  You can look back and say that's a mistake.
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  I shouldn't have done that, yes, but I mean you learn from those
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  things too. And Anakin was as much at fault
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  for every conscious decision he made.
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  And you can't blame Obi Wan for everything that Anakin did.
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  These are two separate humans. But in the Reiko Hardeen he
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  agreed to do that mission. He knew what it would do to Obi
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  Wan. To Anakin.
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  I'm sorry to Anakin. Well, what did it do to Obi Wan?
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  I know, I would really like to know.
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  Because there had to be some soul searching after that, after
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  the shit that Anakin said. Yeah.
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  And did or was about to do so. I know that was a long winded
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  thing but like I was trying to think like what is of the whole
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  Anakin thing, Like if I could pick one moment.
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  I agree. Raiko Hardeen is always kind of
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  like. I didn't say it as my first
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  because we talk about it all the time, but.
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  We do, yeah. But I think we talk about it all
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  the time because it really was a huge mistake, and I think that
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  one of the most painful parts of that whole arc is a small little
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  line, Obi Wan says when Yoda and Mace Windu go to see him before
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  he does the facial transformation and he said
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  Anakin's reaction is what soul did.
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  And it's it was like imperative to keep Anakin on the outside
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  because not because they didn't trust Anakin with the mission or
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  because they didn't think, you know, he was too emotional for
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  it was because they wanted his pain to sell the ruse.
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  And that is so awful. It's.
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  So bad. It's so bad.
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  So, like, whose idea was this? They said it in the the little
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  intro says it was the council and they cut to Obi Wan looking
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  depressed as fuck. Getting.
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  Another mission he doesn't want, but he's he doesn't speak up.
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  No, and he never spoke up with Ahsoka either when she was at
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  trial. And that's one of my honorable
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  mentions. Oh, oh, OK.
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  I think there's this theme of him not speaking up against the
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  council, which is what qui God always did, so he never did.
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  Right. And I think that is a big fault
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  of Obi Wan's because and granted I understand why right?
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  Like there is no confusion to me of really why he does all these
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  things that I would call call, quote UN quote, a mistake.
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  He does them for good reasons usually.
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  And like you were saying, Hindsight's 2020, of course,
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  Yep. But the fact that he doesn't
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  speak up against this awful mission and he doesn't speak up
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  to protect Ahsoka, and he doesn't speak up on multiple
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  other occasions when he knows what the council is asking him
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  to do is really immoral in certain circumstances.
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  That's really unfortunate. Granted, though, it was his
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  whole life to be a Jedi, right? So is it that surprise?
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  True, that he would speak out against the thing that he was.
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  That's hard. That would be really hard for
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  anyone. I I absolutely agree.
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  Because if you think about, I'm going to get real deep here for
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  a second. Do it go.
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  Pardon me. Pardon me, folks, but when you
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  think about some of the world's greatest problems and when
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  people don't speak up. Now, I'm not comparing Ahsoka
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  and her issue, you know, and in the council and all that stuff
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  to like giant world problems here.
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  But if you take into consideration the fact that when
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  people don't speak up, things tend to get worse, you may be
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  the only person that speaks up. And you know it's not going to
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  do any good because you're only one versus how many.
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  And you're you standing up is not going to make a difference,
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  but I do think it makes the difference.
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  And if you don't do it at all you're letting the other ones
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  like win. And I I don't mean like I don't
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  have an eloquent way of saying this it.
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  It's just if you remain silent, you're not contributing to
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  trying to make things right. Even if you're 1 voice amongst
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  thousands millions. That's where change happens, is
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  it starts with one and it could have turned the tide if Obi Wan
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  had said something when Ahsoka was on trial, even if he didn't
• 17:49
  think like, well, I'm. I'm in the minority.
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  They're not going to listen to me or what.
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  He's been to battle with her more than any of the other
• 17:57
  people who were judging her on that trial.
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  Who knows if his word would have had weight?
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  I think it would have. And if and in the end, if it
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  didn't, at least he spoke up and stood up and let Ahsoka know
• 18:10
  that someone was on her side and knew better, You know, Yes, and
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  that's what counts. That's the thing that always
• 18:16
  hits me with that is, OK, he's on the Jedi Council and he would
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  could do more good by staying on the Council than if he got
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  demoted, right? I guess by speaking up.
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  So like say worst case scenario, he speaks up, he gets in trouble
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  and it gets kicked off the council.
• 18:35
  Could you really not live with that?
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  Like, that's what I'm saying. I couldn't live with not saying
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  anything at all. Especially for Ahsoka and
• 18:44
  Anakin. Like, OK, maybe not for other
• 18:46
  people, but for them you couldn't even.
• 18:50
  That's not so surprising in the movies because they just don't
• 18:54
  establish the relationship that than they do in Clone Wars.
• 18:58
  Like they have more time, so the relationships are far deeper
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  there. And that's why the betrayal is
• 19:03
  so much more painful. Like on both sides, when Obi Wan
• 19:08
  doesn't speak up for Anakin, and then when Anakin turns to the
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  dark side, I think all of that is more painful because Clone
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  Wars is so good. Yes.
• 19:16
  Oh for sure, 100%. Yeah, I I just.
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  And the idea that the only person Obi Wan ever says he
• 19:24
  loves is Anakin and you know, he's attached.
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  So to like not speak up because you can't be attached.
• 19:32
  You can't show feelings or emotion.
• 19:34
  It's like, well, guess what? You're living two sides of the
• 19:37
  coin and you're not being honest with yourself in one way or the
• 19:41
  other. Yeah, I don't know.
• 19:43
  I just find it really hard to reconcile.
• 19:47
  And some of our listeners have mentioned Rayko Hardeen
• 19:51
  specifically, and they have said, but they felt like it was
• 19:56
  totally out of character and that the writers were really
• 19:58
  wrong to even write it in the first place.
• 20:01
  Well, you could go that direction, yes.
• 20:04
  That's why I questioned whose idea was it not.
• 20:07
  Obviously it's the writers idea, but in the grand scheme of
• 20:09
  characters, the fact that Mace was there, he probably took
• 20:15
  delight in seeing Anakin and his emotions and probably it
• 20:20
  actually played into showing it played into Mace being like see
• 20:24
  he look at him fly off the handle.
• 20:26
  You know, like that. It's just reconfirming, yeah.
• 20:30
  Yeah, I also think that Palpatine probably strongly
• 20:34
  urged this in order to get Anakin to have this reaction to
• 20:40
  further his little plot that he's got going.
• 20:42
  And it's getting to the end, you know, and I don't know.
• 20:47
  It's just this blind faith in the council.
• 20:49
  We saw where that got everybody and it.
• 20:53
  Yeah, I think that is regards to it being like not in character
• 21:00
  or not good writing or like the writing doesn't fit in.
• 21:04
  I don't know. I actually think the opposite.
• 21:07
  I think that when you look at Clone Wars, especially in
• 21:10
  context of while it was coming out, right, not like now that we
• 21:15
  have all this extra content to compare it to.
• 21:18
  They were telling, I don't even know, not necessarily serials,
• 21:25
  but kind of like imagine old cowboy shows, you know, where
• 21:30
  it's like a different adventure every week and you have a
• 21:35
  challenge and you face it and you either succeed or you don't.
• 21:39
  And it's it also reminds me of like The X-Files because there
• 21:44
  are episodes where it's huge lower building and it's part of
• 21:48
  the bigger story. There are episodes that are just
• 21:51
  like little side quests, as they call them.
• 21:56
  And then there are some that are funny.
• 21:58
  There are some that are like deeply dramatic and like, it's a
• 22:03
  great idea. Obi Wan goes undercover into
• 22:07
  Dooku's band of bad guys. That's a fucking great idea for
• 22:12
  a story and like, how are you going to sell it?
• 22:15
  Except, you know, I actually think it is a great idea.
• 22:19
  I think it's really they played with a lot of weird stuff like
• 22:23
  that in Clone Wars. They went places I never thought
• 22:26
  they would go with Star Wars and that's why it's so fucking good.
• 22:30
  So I think that it is. I do actually think it's in
• 22:34
  character for Obi Wan, unfortunately, because when
• 22:38
  we've talked about like the the movies, like the Ewan McGregor
• 22:42
  version of Obi Wan, I do think this is in character for Obi
• 22:46
  Wan. I I can see, I could see Ewan
• 22:49
  going for this. He's a little colder and he
• 22:52
  definitely, even though they like, have their witty banter in
• 22:56
  the movies, there is not the camaraderie like there.
• 23:00
  It's not visibly. There's that whole brotherhood
• 23:03
  between them. I think part of why the movies
• 23:07
  really bother me is because I don't believe it.
• 23:09
  They never get along. They are always fighting in the
• 23:12
  movies. Especially Attack of the Clones,
• 23:15
  yes. It's just all conflict.
• 23:18
  It's like parents. Scolding a child constantly.
• 23:20
  Like, yes, trying to wrangle a toddler, you know.
• 23:23
  Exactly. And I think Clone Wars fills in
• 23:26
  the gap and that's why I believe it now.
• 23:29
  But yeah, I do think it is in character, unfortunately,
• 23:34
  because I don't think of as you know, I don't think of Obi Wan
• 23:37
  as a cinnamon bun, so. No, I I think, I think
• 23:42
  personally, I think if if Sidious, I'm sorry, Palpatine,
• 23:47
  it is Sidious. Yeah.
• 23:49
  If Palpatine is pushing it hard enough, yeah, he'll do it.
• 23:54
  Yeah, they always did. Yeah, that's the point.
• 23:57
  He wants to see how far from their morals he can get them to
• 24:00
  go and he gets them to go really far.
• 24:03
  And he's playing both sides at this point.
• 24:04
  And it was all about him. It was for him.
• 24:07
  And how fun was that for him to sit there and watch all of this
• 24:10
  go on all around him while Anakin's playing right into his
• 24:15
  hand, while the rest of them are just eating it, He's just eating
• 24:19
  this up. Fuck Palpatine.
• 24:25
  Seriously, I hope everyone had a great New Year's except
• 24:30
  Palpatine and Pong Crow. I hope their January is going
• 24:35
  terribly. It just reminded me of some
• 24:43
  holiday cheer I forgot to spread.
• 24:48
  OK, so my next one is it's actually an episode we've done
• 24:54
  previously. And I'm not saying it is a
• 24:57
  mistake necessarily, but I am saying it's worth thinking about
• 25:01
  because of how everything turned out and how the galaxies
• 25:06
  suffered as a result. Oh God, what is it?
• 25:10
  Was it a mistake that Obi Wan didn't kill Anakin?
• 25:15
  Oh. Because we we did the whole
• 25:17
  episode about it and it was so fascinating because it's all
• 25:22
  it's theoretical, right? Like I don't.
• 25:25
  I. We we finished that episode and
• 25:28
  both were like, don't have a real answer for that.
• 25:31
  Don't have an answer? Still don't.
• 25:33
  Yeah. Still don't.
• 25:34
  But because he couldn't bear to do it, which is totally
• 25:40
  understandable. Yeah.
• 25:43
  Vader became what he was and lived in pain as a result of it.
• 25:51
  Which of course Obi wouldn't wouldn't want his friend live in
• 25:55
  that suffering. So like that is just a big one
• 26:00
  that I I struggle with sometimes because like.
• 26:05
  Wouldn't even put. It like it would be putting
• 26:08
  someone out of their misery. But also like when you watch
• 26:11
  that scene is like, is it worth killing this man who's in this
• 26:18
  kind of condition already? Like, it seems like overkill,
• 26:22
  but yeah, I don't know. I don't.
• 26:25
  I don't. It's that's a tough one.
• 26:30
  I still don't have an answer. I I don't.
• 26:36
  It's the IT. I'm not even thinking like Vader
• 26:40
  yet. I'm thinking of your best
• 26:42
  friend. Just this just happened, right
• 26:46
  in this terrible place. And now this terrible thing has
• 26:50
  happened to your best friend. He's laying there with half his
• 26:54
  limbs and screaming in pain, and his hair is melting off his
• 26:58
  skin. OK to put him out of his misery?
• 27:04
  I would. I would.
• 27:08
  But like. If you think of the code, he's
• 27:12
  an unarmed. He made that choice.
• 27:15
  And plus he doesn't want to kill his best friend, but he's also
• 27:19
  letting him literally burn to the point he passes out and
• 27:24
  Palpatine finds him like, I don't know what's worse, I don't
• 27:29
  know what's worse. And then, if you consider what
• 27:31
  ends up happening after all this, you could say it
• 27:34
  contributed to Padme's death because Palpatine had to pull
• 27:39
  from somewhere. Right to get.
• 27:41
  ANAKIN back. So it's like the collateral
• 27:44
  damage of it all. I.
• 27:45
  Didn't even think of that. That adds a whole other layer of
• 27:48
  pain. Well, this is our theory.
• 27:51
  Of course it's not. Right, right, right that.
• 27:54
  Our theory is that Palpatine drained Padme to bring Anakin
• 27:58
  back to full force. Yeah, because ain't no way a
• 28:01
  strong woman like that going to just pass out and die from
• 28:03
  having two children. Nope.
• 28:04
  Yeah, she dies from the sadness. The sadness of it all, Yeah,
• 28:10
  anyone can die from having babies, and I hope they never
• 28:12
  do. But I'm saying the sadness of it
• 28:13
  all. No.
• 28:14
  Well, the the. Droid said that she was fine
• 28:17
  medically, but she's yeah, with the will to live.
• 28:21
  Yeah, so. Yeah, because it was taken from
• 28:24
  her. But regardless, had Obi Wan
• 28:28
  ended Anakin, maybe there would still be.
• 28:31
  Yeah, I mean. It's.
• 28:33
  It's like a chain of events, right?
• 28:36
  Yeah. So yeah, and he.
• 28:38
  Is it supposed to happen? Is it the wills?
• 28:41
  It could, because the Wills made Anakin like apparently all of
• 28:45
  this was supposed to happen, which is ultimately our argument
• 28:48
  all the time of. Life, That is the argument.
• 28:50
  When people blame Obi Wan for Anakin, like falling to the dark
• 28:54
  side, it no, my argument is always the point was for him to
• 28:59
  fall. Like that's the whole point.
• 29:00
  So you can't. Yes, blame Obi Wan.
• 29:03
  Literally, Anakin made that choice and it was destiny, so.
• 29:09
  That's why I said they are two separate entities making their
• 29:12
  own choices here. Yeah.
• 29:14
  Can there be influence? Absolutely.
• 29:16
  Yeah, but to. Blame someone.
• 29:19
  No. Influence.
• 29:22
  Yes. Blame for everything?
• 29:23
  No. Yeah.
• 29:25
  So what's your your second one? Well, I guess I'm going to
• 29:29
  lighten things up a bit with this one, but this is where I'm
• 29:33
  afraid I'm going to ruffle feathers.
• 29:35
  But whatever, I'll fall on that sword.
• 29:39
  I think Satine was a big mistake.
• 29:41
  Oh, in what terms though? You can't help who you fall in
• 29:47
  love with. I understand.
• 29:50
  But him meddling and being sent to Mandalore when she's ruling
• 29:56
  and all of this starting up and like all of this coming to the
• 30:01
  surface and then she calls on him to come back and save her,
• 30:06
  you know, which ultimately leads to her death.
• 30:08
  This is a big mistake. He should have let that go when
• 30:13
  they separated and absolutely turned down anything that sent
• 30:20
  him to Mandalore. Now is that extreme?
• 30:24
  Probably. I have never liked Satine.
• 30:26
  I know, I know. Voice actress excluded from
• 30:34
  this. I'm talking about the character.
• 30:35
  Yeah, yeah. Anna Graves is amazing.
• 30:37
  We. Love her.
• 30:37
  Yeah, we love her. We love her.
• 30:39
  With James everything. But OK, so like, teenage love
• 30:43
  affair, this, this whole thing happens, right?
• 30:45
  And then like go your separate ways and leave it.
• 30:47
  But I I have to look at my own personal bias because when I
• 30:51
  break up with someone that is it clean, boom, deleted, blocked,
• 30:55
  never see it again. And I know some people don't do
• 30:57
  that, but I really think that Obi Wan should have blocked
• 31:01
  Satine. I'm surprised he didn't,
• 31:03
  honestly, because he is that kind of person where he's like
• 31:06
  he had made-up his mind and that was that they weren't going to
• 31:10
  do. Nothing was going to happen.
• 31:12
  I know there are people who hold out hope and have their their
• 31:17
  like fan theory that Obi Wan and Satine were having like an
• 31:22
  ongoing affair during Clone Wars and I I really don't think that
• 31:26
  was what was going on the woman. Would be an even bigger mistake.
• 31:29
  But she literally. Died in his arms, and he still
• 31:31
  didn't say. I know so and that is also a
• 31:36
  mistake. So I say all of this that he
• 31:39
  shouldn't even have been anywhere around her.
• 31:41
  Stay away from that. You don't need to go to
• 31:43
  Mandalore, Send Ahsoka. OK she she ended up saving
• 31:46
  Mandalore anyway or whatever. But but the fact that he did
• 31:51
  medal, he did go there. They did have the exchange in
• 31:56
  the thing when Anakin stabbed the guy in the back.
• 31:59
  So you're talking about originally when he was sent to
• 32:02
  the Voyage of Temptation and all that.
• 32:05
  I mean that again, the council sent him.
• 32:08
  He didn't even have an option. He they just.
• 32:10
  He should have said something like, you know what?
• 32:13
  I didn't. I know it would have outed him,
• 32:15
  but he should have said like, you know what, this be a great
• 32:17
  learning experience for Padawan #72.
• 32:20
  You know what I mean? Like send that person.
• 32:23
  Yeah. But then since he did, he never
• 32:27
  said he loved her even in like, so you you end up in this, you
• 32:35
  end up in this. Again, Obi, I'm throwing my
• 32:37
  hands around over here. I'm getting emotional, but like,
• 32:41
  you can't even tell the woman in her dying moments.
• 32:44
  Like I cared for you. You could have said I I deeply
• 32:47
  cared for you. You you had a part of my heart.
• 32:50
  A part of my heart dies when you die.
• 32:52
  Shit. Something, Anything.
• 32:54
  And it doesn't even have to say I love you.
• 32:56
  It could be any of those things you just said would have been
• 32:59
  perfect. The whole thing's a mess, that's
• 33:03
  all. I think it's really interesting
• 33:06
  because I I think the fact that he went and he probably didn't
• 33:13
  have to. Yeah.
• 33:15
  Initially, you're right, he probably could have said
• 33:18
  something. You know, he was curious, You
• 33:21
  know, he wanted to see her. Right.
• 33:23
  It was like he watched back in there knowing that it's so.
• 33:28
  It's almost cruel because he was curious and didn't care that it
• 33:33
  might bring up pain for her at the same time, you know?
• 33:38
  He's all well and good because he's he's got the code and he's
• 33:41
  got years on on the council and he's got this big old wall built
• 33:46
  up. But he doesn't.
• 33:48
  We don't know where Satine is at.
• 33:50
  Mentally, emotionally, whatever. Yeah, it's really so true, he.
• 33:56
  Feels so kind to her and sweeps her off her feet.
• 34:00
  Almost like to save her a couple times.
• 34:02
  And then like really holds her at arm's length in in the last.
• 34:07
  What is that one called? That's the one after Voyage of
• 34:10
  Temptation. I I always forget the last one's
• 34:13
  name. Mandalore plot or something like
• 34:15
  that. Something where, Yeah, where she
• 34:17
  gets. Someone tries to kill her, she
• 34:20
  gets accused of murder, or that whole one.
• 34:22
  He keeps showing up at the Senate while she's there and
• 34:26
  then keeps saying things like, well, I'm your friend and she's
• 34:31
  like, yeah, we're friends. I get the fucking point.
• 34:33
  You put me in the friend zone, like, exactly.
• 34:36
  You don't have to keep saying it, you know?
• 34:38
  And it's it's weird because just at the end of the previous
• 34:44
  episode she had said that she loved him.
• 34:48
  And then they end the episode kindly.
• 34:51
  And she says you're, you know, a mindful Jedi.
• 34:54
  And I'm just not sure about the beard and that whole scene where
• 34:56
  they seem like they end on the same page.
• 34:59
  Yes, things were smoothed over. No one's going away very mad.
• 35:03
  Chapter gets turned like, yeah, they're in this weird dynamic
• 35:08
  now where I I don't know it. Like he he's a friend.
• 35:14
  And like she's not accepting that they're friends.
• 35:17
  She's kind of bitter that they're friends and not
• 35:19
  something more. Well, This is why I don't like
• 35:22
  Satine. Because she's so combative all
• 35:26
  the time. Yeah.
• 35:29
  She's really proud. She's she has a lot of reason to
• 35:33
  be. She's a she's a good woman with
• 35:35
  a good heart who stands up for what she believes in and isn't
• 35:39
  afraid to say it, you know, harkening back to what I was
• 35:42
  talking about earlier in the episode.
• 35:43
  So I respect the hell out of her.
• 35:46
  She just needs to bring it from A10 down to A7, that's all.
• 35:50
  It's true. Get the.
• 35:51
  Same thing accomplished at A7. I really agree with you and the
• 35:56
  first time I watched it I found her pretty irritating as well
• 35:59
  and I've grown to like like those episodes with her and Obi
• 36:06
  Wan because Obi Wan is different in those.
• 36:09
  But then if you watch the episodes with like the one with
• 36:13
  her and Padme. Which is her and Padme.
• 36:15
  Yeah, I can't remember. The name of it.
• 36:17
  But it's all about this like corrupt plot to poison children.
• 36:23
  And the whole time she's fucking ranting and like, telling people
• 36:28
  to do stuff and it makes no sense.
• 36:30
  She's like, burn this warehouse down.
• 36:32
  I'm like, girl, that's where all your evidence is.
• 36:35
  What are you talking about? She's out of 10 and she needs to
• 36:41
  be at a zip. I don't like stifling women.
• 36:45
  I don't mean it to come across as that.
• 36:46
  I just mean like the way she's portrayed, not by Anna, but her
• 36:51
  character as a whole seems a little aggressive.
• 36:54
  Yeah. Yeah, unnecessarily so.
• 36:58
  Like to burn a whole warehouse. Is that necessary?
• 37:00
  I don't think so, you know. Yeah, you could argue, you know,
• 37:06
  she's a woman in power in a quote, man's world.
• 37:10
  So she's probably into, like, really insert herself as much
• 37:14
  as, I mean, tall Merrick tries to talk over her.
• 37:17
  I don't even know how many. Times.
• 37:20
  I fucking hate that. I hate that as on all sorts of
• 37:24
  levels. But just to bring it back to Obi
• 37:28
  Wan, I just think you should have let well enough alone when
• 37:31
  he had the chance, because a whole lot of shit came up that
• 37:34
  probably didn't need to happen, and I think it was a bad choice
• 37:37
  and. Do you think part of that is
• 37:38
  because he was lying to himself about how he really felt?
• 37:42
  Absolutely. We've all done it.
• 37:46
  We've all texted someone we're not supposed to and then
• 37:49
  immediately regretted it. And then when the person is
• 37:51
  like, oh, you want to talk again, Do you want to hang out?
• 37:53
  You're like, no, actually. What have I done?
• 37:55
  You need to do this, yeah. This is why I clean cut people
• 37:59
  out because I can't be trusted. So, oh, we want to take it from
• 38:04
  experience. This could only end in tears.
• 38:10
  Yeah, it's a mess. What are some of the the ones
• 38:14
  that were brought up that you wanted to touch upon if you
• 38:16
  could if you want to list them or.
• 38:18
  Yeah, I mean one of them was Rico Hardeen and then someone
• 38:21
  else said that they thought maybe him not leaving the order
• 38:24
  for Satine was a mistake. Oh hey, you know what?
• 38:28
  I'll go with that too. Make a decision and whatever it
• 38:30
  is, stick to it. Because if he'd if he'd have
• 38:32
  made the decision to go with Satine.
• 38:34
  Let's play it from this angle. Do not meddle in the affairs of
• 38:38
  the Order and the Council and say like, well, I can come help.
• 38:42
  No, you made a decision. Stay with her, you know, So it
• 38:45
  can be from either angle. When you know if you what you
• 38:49
  said before is true, Like if he had just cut the ties, then
• 38:54
  perhaps Maul wouldn't have killed her because she wouldn't
• 38:57
  have missed anything. Yes.
• 39:00
  Like that's so terrible to say. Like that sounds very victim
• 39:02
  blame me. Well, you know, no, no, no.
• 39:05
  It's very similar to what we were talking about with Anakin.
• 39:08
  Maul used Satine to draw an emotion out of Obi Wan right?
• 39:14
  Whereas they used Obi Wan to draw draw an emotion out of
• 39:18
  Anakin. Now it was all play acting at
• 39:21
  the end of the day. Yeah, but still what goes around
• 39:24
  comes around. Is that karma?
• 39:27
  Yeah, anyway. So those were the main ones that
• 39:32
  other people had sent to me. Yeah, yeah, there's not too many
• 39:37
  mistakes, honestly. And these are even borderline if
• 39:40
  you if you go deep with them, so.
• 39:42
  Yeah, I feel like everything we've talked about is we're
• 39:46
  looking for mistakes. So that's what we're focusing
• 39:50
  on. But really any of the things
• 39:53
  that we've talked about I there is another point of view like
• 39:57
  that that really is true and. If we wanted to even do the same
• 40:02
  episode and explain why these decisions were not mistakes, we
• 40:06
  could do that and. We could.
• 40:08
  None of this is black and white, not a single one of them there.
• 40:11
  And there are more parties involved in almost every single
• 40:14
  one of these decisions. Yeah, that do have an influence.
• 40:18
  So it's absolutely nothing is ever easy in the world of Star
• 40:22
  Wars. Right.
• 40:23
  And we don't want anyone, you know, thinking we're shit
• 40:26
  talking Obi Wan or shitting on Obi Wan.
• 40:30
  And probably should have said this at the beginning so that
• 40:32
  people don't just drop out of the episode and get mad.
• 40:34
  But I mean, we're not here to sugarcoat stuff.
• 40:40
  We want to explore all the different aspects.
• 40:42
  And so even though he's one of our favorite characters, he has
• 40:47
  done things that have hurt other people and we shouldn't be
• 40:50
  afraid to look at that, I think. Absolutely.
• 40:58
  Our question to you this week is what other quote UN quote
• 41:04
  mistakes did Obi Wan make that we didn't cover?
• 41:08
  And do you agree with what we said?
• 41:10
  If we did cover the ones that you can think of, let us know
• 41:13
  we're not here to shit talk like Lauren said earlier.
• 41:15
  But it is interesting to dive into this sort of thing and try
• 41:19
  to look at it from, dare we say, another point of view.
• 41:23
  So let us know. And next week.
• 41:28
  Oh my God. Oh, yes.
• 41:32
  We are talking about the Hello there animated version of
• 41:39
  Revenge of the Sith that came out.
• 41:41
  It is amazing. It's so good and we both loved
• 41:48
  it so much. We're like, we got to do an
• 41:49
  episode on it, so. It it is.
• 41:52
  If you have not seen it, this is your homework for this week.
• 41:54
  Yes. Go watch it.
• 41:56
  It's on Twitter. It's on.
• 41:58
  What is it? Everywhere?
• 41:59
  YouTube. Yeah.
• 42:00
  Just type in hello there and animated Revenge of the Sith
• 42:05
  battle. Yes, I think it's very
• 42:07
  incredible. It's so good.
• 42:09
  It's Clone Wars style. They did a fantastic job and we
• 42:12
  are going to talk all about it and gush about it next week.
• 42:14
  I can't wait. Thank you so much for joining us
• 42:19
  here on The Most Things Kenobi Podcast.
• 42:21
  We appreciate every single one of our patrons and are grateful
• 42:24
  for your support. If you'd like to support the
• 42:26
  podcast and become a patron as well, head over to The Most
• 42:29
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• 42:35
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• 42:38
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• 42:49
  So until next time, Myspace Twin, may the Force be with you.
• 42:53
  Always.