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A New Era for Independent Voters - EP4 · Independent Voter Podcast

• 0:01
  S1: Olas media.
• 0:03
  S2: Welcome to the Independent Voter podcast from Independent Voter Project.
• 0:07
  S2: We're going to expand a little bit a new era
• 0:09
  S2: of independent voter news that the journalists just don't cover,
• 0:13
  S2: where we have these debates on a national level, really
• 0:17
  S2: taking on issues so that people have more educated disagreements
• 0:21
  S2: with each other. Let's just explain how the process really works. Hello,
• 0:33
  S2: and welcome to the Independent Voter podcast. I'm Chad Peace.
• 0:36
  S2: You're you're at least temporary host. This podcast is a
• 0:40
  S2: little different than what we've done before, but it's right
• 0:43
  S2: in line with the same ethic. Uh, we're we're going
• 0:46
  S2: to take issues, obviously, things like election reform, because that's
• 0:50
  S2: what we've been covering for 12 something years and just
• 0:53
  S2: go more in depth to how it really works. So,
• 0:57
  S2: for example, you know, a lot of people go, well,
• 0:59
  S2: why don't you just run as an independent? Why don't
• 1:01
  S2: you just start a third party? Well, let's just explain
• 1:03
  S2: how the process really works, which then you come to
• 1:06
  S2: your own conclusions of why more people don't run as
• 1:08
  S2: independents or start third parties. Um, but something I'm also
• 1:13
  S2: excited about is we're going to expand a little bit.
• 1:16
  S2: There's going to be some issues, like cannabis policy and
• 1:20
  S2: social justice and correction reforms, where we have these debates
• 1:24
  S2: on a national level that are talking about issues where
• 1:29
  S2: there's a lot of the factors involved in those discussions
• 1:32
  S2: that most people just don't know. I'm I'm proud to
• 1:36
  S2: be a part of this, that, you know, independent voter
• 1:39
  S2: Podcast one just being here. But two, I think when
• 1:43
  S2: we have educated disagreements, we can come to solutions and
• 1:48
  S2: policy positions that are more informed and then end up
• 1:52
  S2: working for those folks who thought they disagreed. So it's
• 1:57
  S2: our launch of the Independent Voter podcast. And now to
• 2:00
  S2: get this started, I'm bringing on a very special guest,
• 2:04
  S2: someone that has been in this space for a long,
• 2:06
  S2: long time, uh, comes with a lot of credentials. Kara McCormick.
• 2:15
  S2: For those of you who have been a part of
• 2:17
  S2: Independent Voter for, what, 12, 13 years now? You know,
• 2:22
  S2: independent voter has been called everything from, you know, far left,
• 2:25
  S2: far right libertarians, socialists, um, and all of that's true. Uh,
• 2:32
  S2: what we're we're excited today because this is the first time,
• 2:36
  S2: you know, after thousands of news articles online, um, all
• 2:40
  S2: the reform work that's been done by the Independent Voter Project, um,
• 2:44
  S2: that we that we really engage in a podcast and
• 2:47
  S2: have some discussions that that will help highlight what we
• 2:50
  S2: mean when we say we're all these different ideologies. Um,
• 2:55
  S2: the Independent Voter project, for those of you who don't know,
• 2:58
  S2: was founded about, you know, 16 or 17 years ago,
• 3:02
  S2: really with the purpose of, um, you know, a number
• 3:05
  S2: of former Republicans and Democrats, uh, seeing the political system
• 3:10
  S2: getting increasingly partisan and saying, what can we do to
• 3:15
  S2: try to bring back some level of, you know, policy
• 3:21
  S2: discussion rather than political and partisan discussion? The first thing
• 3:25
  S2: they did was they drafted California's top two nonpartisan primary initiative.
• 3:33
  S2: Now there's folks in the reform space. I live in
• 3:35
  S2: the reform space, um, who don't like the top two
• 3:38
  S2: primary because not enough candidates get on the ballot. It
• 3:41
  S2: limits it to two. And from their perspective, you know,
• 3:44
  S2: that insulates the duopoly, so to speak. Right. Um, I
• 3:48
  S2: understand that perspective. IVP understands that perspective. But, um, we
• 3:52
  S2: work with a lot of those folks now to try
• 3:55
  S2: to expand the options in the general election ballot. But
• 3:58
  S2: the ground the the principle behind California's nonpartisan primary, which
• 4:03
  S2: is the same principle behind the independent voter news to
• 4:08
  S2: which IVP funds, is that elections serve voters, all voters,
• 4:14
  S2: independent voters with a lowercase I. So independent Democrats, independent Republicans,
• 4:20
  S2: independent third party and voters that are registered independent should
• 4:24
  S2: all have an equally meaningful vote. And on when it
• 4:29
  S2: comes to, you know, whether it's a news article or
• 4:32
  S2: it's an opinion piece, have an opportunity to be heard.
• 4:36
  S2: That's the ethic that we try to bring behind the
• 4:40
  S2: reforms that are done by Independent Voter Project. That's the
• 4:43
  S2: ethic behind the editorial standards of us. I'm Chad Peace.
• 4:49
  S2: I've been hired by Independent Voter Project pretty much since
• 4:52
  S2: its beginning. Um, it's one of something I've grown a
• 4:56
  S2: passion for, something that I care about. Um, I understand
• 5:00
  S2: that when it comes to reform and really when it
• 5:02
  S2: comes to anything in politics, we have to start by
• 5:06
  S2: looking at everyone's perspectives and why they're doing what they're doing. Um,
• 5:11
  S2: I think a lot of good intentions and good, good
• 5:14
  S2: thoughts go to waste because they get cut off before
• 5:18
  S2: we have an opportunity to explain. I hope that this
• 5:20
  S2: podcast provides a platform for that. Um, you get to
• 5:24
  S2: hear perspectives that you may not agree with, but, um,
• 5:27
  S2: that highlight or help inform why people are doing and
• 5:32
  S2: believe the things that they do. I also want to
• 5:36
  S2: I want to welcome our first special guest, someone that, um,
• 5:40
  S2: I think is a hero in this space. Uh, Cara McCormick. Um,
• 5:45
  S2: she's out there in the freezing cold Maine. I'm in
• 5:48
  S2: the relatively warmer San Diego right now, although it is
• 5:52
  S2: raining outside. Um, some people, especially in the reform space,
• 5:56
  S2: may know Cara McCormick because she led the first successful
• 6:00
  S2: statewide effort for ranked choice voting. Uh, she's done a
• 6:04
  S2: number of other things. She also has a day job, um,
• 6:07
  S2: where she is a, you know, expert in research, opposition research. She's.
• 6:14
  S2: Come on. She's a big part of this, um, this
• 6:17
  S2: new phase for for ivn. So I want to welcome
• 6:20
  S2: Cara here to give a shout out and hello and
• 6:22
  S2: and say whatever you want to say. Cara.
• 6:24
  S3: Hi, Chad. Um, this is Cara McCormick. Um, I'm super
• 6:29
  S3: excited to be on your show. The first inaugural IVP show. Um,
• 6:36
  S3: I co-founded an organization called The Chamberlain Project with Peter
• 6:40
  S3: Ackerman about ten years ago. And at the beginning of January,
• 6:44
  S3: we dissolved the organization. The Chamberlain boards all voted to
• 6:49
  S3: combine all of our entities, which include Americans elect. Level
• 6:55
  S3: the playing field, the Committee for ranked Choice voting, and
• 6:58
  S3: then our citizens to end superPACs with the Foundation for
• 7:03
  S3: Independent Voter Education, which is the nonprofit sister organization of
• 7:08
  S3: the Independent Voter Project. And Chamberlain and all of our
• 7:12
  S3: entities have actually been aligned with the Independent Voter Project
• 7:16
  S3: for more than a decade now. Um, I'm excited that
• 7:21
  S3: Chamberlain has merged with, um, five. And, um, you know,
• 7:26
  S3: the way that we came together, Chad was, you know,
• 7:30
  S3: more than ten years ago, I started researching, um, the
• 7:34
  S3: unlikely and tremendously remarkable success of the top two primary
• 7:39
  S3: initiative in California. Um, and as I was looking to
• 7:44
  S3: start a ranked choice voting effort here in Maine, um,
• 7:48
  S3: I that's that's how I first how I first found you,
• 7:52
  S3: because you and your organization sort of had the fearlessness
• 7:56
  S3: to take on the duopoly and challenge, um, the structural
• 8:03
  S3: issues that we have in our democracy that sort of
• 8:06
  S3: protect the duopoly and stop independence from having a voice
• 8:10
  S3: in our politics.
• 8:12
  S2: Well, I think that's one of the reasons we've gotten
• 8:15
  S2: along so well over the years, too, is because if
• 8:18
  S2: you look at that, okay, we did the top two primary.
• 8:20
  S2: You know, you you really got the first major ranked
• 8:24
  S2: choice voting, uh, statewide effort, uh, successful. If you live
• 8:29
  S2: in the wonky world of reform politics, you know, at
• 8:32
  S2: that time when we kind of got to know each other,
• 8:34
  S2: it was ranked choice voting. People were fighting with the
• 8:38
  S2: nonpartisan top two primary people because ranked choice wanted more
• 8:42
  S2: candidates and top two limited it to this. And like,
• 8:45
  S2: I think we hit it off and you can correct
• 8:47
  S2: me if I'm wrong, Cara, but I think we hit
• 8:49
  S2: it off because we were like, look, we understand why
• 8:52
  S2: we're approaching things the way we are. We're our end
• 8:55
  S2: goal is the same. We want better representation. We want
• 8:58
  S2: more competition at the ballot box. Right. We're frustrated with,
• 9:02
  S2: you know, the folks that control the process, where to
• 9:04
  S2: where voters really don't matter. And there's different avenues to
• 9:09
  S2: get there depending on where you're at. And I think
• 9:13
  S2: that's what's led to not only the relationship between you
• 9:16
  S2: and I, but, you know, you have folks from from
• 9:18
  S2: Fairvote and Unite America and open primaries and all these
• 9:22
  S2: organizations who are doing these, this reform work to finally
• 9:26
  S2: start saying, okay, why are you doing this? And you
• 9:29
  S2: see a lot of those organizations now working with each other,
• 9:32
  S2: realizing that these reform efforts, they're not in opposite, they're
• 9:36
  S2: not opposition to each other. In fact, they can learn
• 9:40
  S2: from each other. They can work together in some places.
• 9:43
  S2: So that's how I've really enjoyed our relationship, you know,
• 9:48
  S2: as it's developed here. And I think this kind of
• 9:50
  S2: gives us an opportunity where you and I, we don't
• 9:52
  S2: we don't share an opinion. You know, our opinions aren't
• 9:55
  S2: the same on all this stuff, but we understand that
• 9:58
  S2: the goals are the same. And so I think we
• 10:00
  S2: can from that we can have a, you know, a
• 10:02
  S2: good platform for conversation and invite people who don't agree
• 10:05
  S2: with us. And I want to talk to those people
• 10:08
  S2: who say, ranked choice voting is the stupidest idea ever,
• 10:10
  S2: and this and that. Let's talk to them. Right. Um.
• 10:14
  S3: 100%. The the obstacle is the way. And you know,
• 10:18
  S3: Peter Ackerman, the late Peter Ackerman, who I had the
• 10:20
  S3: honor of working with for for a very long time.
• 10:23
  S3: And you did too. You know, he always said, Cara,
• 10:26
  S3: let a thousand flowers bloom, you know, and and as
• 10:30
  S3: long as we're all kind of working towards dismantling some
• 10:34
  S3: of the structures that have kept the, the, the status
• 10:39
  S3: quo in, in place in terms of, like first past
• 10:42
  S3: the post voting. Well, you know, top two gets rid
• 10:46
  S3: of first past the post voting. Just like ranked choice
• 10:48
  S3: voting gets rid of first the first past the post
• 10:50
  S3: voting that first past the post voting is really, you know,
• 10:55
  S3: Peter used to say it's as harmful to our democracy
• 10:59
  S3: as cigarettes are to to our collective health. Right.
• 11:04
  S2: And, Cara.
• 11:05
  S3: Just.
• 11:05
  S2: Just for our for our audience, you know, that may
• 11:07
  S2: not they hear first past the post, but really what
• 11:10
  S2: how the way I when I hear first past the post.
• 11:12
  S2: To me that just means plurality voting. You don't have
• 11:15
  S2: to get a majority to win. It means you can
• 11:18
  S2: be elected by a small subset of the electorate. Right.
• 11:22
  S2: And not the majority of the people. Right. So, and
• 11:25
  S2: our system operates that. Right. Most people don't know that.
• 11:27
  S2: But I mean, you take a low turnout primary, for example,
• 11:30
  S2: where the general election doesn't matter. I mean, you can
• 11:34
  S2: basically have three, 4% of the population electing a United
• 11:37
  S2: States senator. Right. But most people don't know that. It's
• 11:41
  S2: not their fault. It's not. They're stupid. They're not they're
• 11:43
  S2: not even ignorant. It's that nobody discusses how our election
• 11:47
  S2: process actually works. And that's one of the things that
• 11:50
  S2: I think you and I, um, you know, there's a
• 11:52
  S2: lot for us to learn, but I think we can
• 11:54
  S2: also offer a platform to talk about it.
• 11:57
  S3: Totally. And, you know, together we actually have done some things.
• 12:00
  S3: We have won campaigns. We have won lawsuit.
• 12:04
  S2: Well, to be fair, we've lost a lot too.
• 12:07
  S3: Yeah, we definitely have. Yeah, we definitely have. And and
• 12:10
  S3: you know, you win some, you lose some. Um, but uh, well,
• 12:14
  S3: sometimes that's how the sausage and the democracy gets made, right?
• 12:18
  S2: Well, exactly. And I mean to bring it back to
• 12:20
  S2: to to Peter Ackerman. I think, you know, somebody in
• 12:23
  S2: the space who really understands the level of not only
• 12:26
  S2: commitment and what he gave up to advance reform. You know,
• 12:30
  S2: I think one of the things I know, you were
• 12:32
  S2: with him a lot longer than me, but one of
• 12:34
  S2: the things he taught me, I consider him a mentor
• 12:36
  S2: of mine, um, was that there really aren't any losses, right?
• 12:42
  S2: That you that losses are Are the stepping stones right
• 12:46
  S2: to making change, right? Somebody had to go and file
• 12:49
  S2: the lawsuit against the Commission on Presidential Debates in order
• 12:53
  S2: to expose so much of the hypocrisy about how it's
• 12:57
  S2: a democratic process. You know, Peter Ackerman didn't have to,
• 13:01
  S2: but he spent a considerable amount of money, time, investment
• 13:05
  S2: of energy to do that. Knowing the end of the road,
• 13:08
  S2: there was likely an administrative court saying, yeah, those are
• 13:14
  S2: real good arguments, but too bad. Right. He knew that
• 13:17
  S2: going in, but he did it anyway and took that
• 13:20
  S2: loss knowing that that's what needed to take the next step.
• 13:25
  S3: Yeah, I mean and that's just definitely been my experience
• 13:28
  S3: with ranked choice voting in Maine. And even now with
• 13:30
  S3: the super PAC, um, initiative that we ran and won
• 13:35
  S3: in Maine to get rid of super PACs, you know,
• 13:38
  S3: you have to you can't do these things, um, knowing
• 13:44
  S3: that in the end, you're going to win. You know,
• 13:47
  S3: you need to do these things because they're the right
• 13:49
  S3: things that need to be done at the moment, win
• 13:52
  S3: or lose. Um, there's a lot of people in politics who,
• 13:57
  S3: you know, I've worked in politics for, you know, 40
• 13:59
  S3: years or something. Now at this point, and there's a
• 14:03
  S3: lot of people in politics who come in at the
• 14:05
  S3: end and support you when they know that you're going
• 14:08
  S3: to win and they won't support you along the way
• 14:10
  S3: when they're not sure if you're going to win. And
• 14:12
  S3: so I feel like both you and I have been
• 14:15
  S3: really brave and and, you know, for me, a lot
• 14:18
  S3: came from the courageousness of Peter saying, yeah, we, you know,
• 14:21
  S3: we should do this. You can do this, Kara. Um,
• 14:24
  S3: even if you don't win, it's okay to to do
• 14:27
  S3: this now. Losing is really painful, I have to say.
• 14:31
  S2: You get used to it.
• 14:32
  S3: Yeah. I mean, as Catherine Gale, she called me up. Um,
• 14:35
  S3: you know, after. After a pretty bitter loss.
• 14:38
  S2: Another hero.
• 14:39
  S3: 2020. Another total hero of this of this movement. Um,
• 14:44
  S3: and she said, you know, you're at least you're on
• 14:45
  S3: the field, Kara. She and she read me the Teddy
• 14:47
  S3: Roosevelt quote about being, you know, being the man in
• 14:50
  S3: the arena. Um, and being on the field. And that's
• 14:53
  S3: that's better than just sort of sitting in the sidelines
• 14:55
  S3: and complaining about about everything and accepting, um, everything the
• 14:59
  S3: way that it is and not trying to do what
• 15:01
  S3: sort of is in is in my DNA is in
• 15:03
  S3: a lot of Americans DNA, which is this, this feeling
• 15:06
  S3: like we need to form a more perfect union, you know,
• 15:09
  S3: that we can't we can't stop.
• 15:11
  S2: Yeah. And I mean, that kind of takes us to
• 15:12
  S2: our next our next really step is okay, well, what
• 15:16
  S2: what can we do about it? Right. Um, you know,
• 15:19
  S2: IBM was developed as an educational platform just to educate
• 15:23
  S2: people how the process works. Look, here's what a closed
• 15:25
  S2: primary is. Here's what an open primary is. Oh, here's
• 15:28
  S2: examples of things going on. And organizations across the country
• 15:31
  S2: doing stuff. What? You know what Kara's you know what
• 15:35
  S2: what I'm really excited about your participation in this and
• 15:38
  S2: your willingness to to join us on this crazy venture
• 15:41
  S2: is that this next phase of ivn, we, you know,
• 15:44
  S2: we can't do everything. We don't have a massive, you know,
• 15:46
  S2: budget like some of these organizations. But what we want
• 15:50
  S2: to do is say every month, let's let's take something
• 15:53
  S2: and let's just explain how it really works. Right? When
• 15:56
  S2: we're talking about an election, how does it really work?
• 15:59
  S2: And we want to break out of, okay, we don't
• 16:01
  S2: need to talk about elections all day in this wonky world. And,
• 16:04
  S2: you know, it's like, let's talk about things like that
• 16:07
  S2: are going on that are important, affecting our daily lives,
• 16:11
  S2: like in policy, whether it's corrections or social justice or
• 16:16
  S2: it's it's cannabis policy. Right. So we're going to start
• 16:19
  S2: off with a few issues. Obviously, sticking to election reform
• 16:23
  S2: is one of them. Um, but every month do a
• 16:26
  S2: series that has a very in-depth article video component and
• 16:31
  S2: podcasts like this where we're not talking about, hey, this
• 16:35
  S2: is the perfect solution and this is the problem, and
• 16:38
  S2: just say this is these are the conditions. This is
• 16:41
  S2: how it really works. If we want to talk about
• 16:43
  S2: whether this idea is good or this idea is bad,
• 16:47
  S2: let's at least understand what the real landscape is, because
• 16:52
  S2: I think a lot of the discussions, the arguments, the
• 16:56
  S2: vitriol we get into is because we're we're all talking
• 16:59
  S2: with a totally different set of facts. And some people
• 17:02
  S2: are pursuing a policy trying to fix X, and then
• 17:05
  S2: somebody's arguing with it. They don't even know X exists. Right.
• 17:10
  S2: And so say, hey, this is how it really works. So, Cara,
• 17:14
  S2: I know you've gotten started on our first kind of relaunch.
• 17:17
  S2: You know, we we've done some of these in the
• 17:19
  S2: past when, you know, related to like PBMs and the
• 17:22
  S2: health care industry and stuff, which are pretty esoteric topic
• 17:26
  S2: that became hot a few weeks ago. But, um, I'm
• 17:30
  S2: excited you're coming on as as somebody who is an
• 17:33
  S2: opposition research person who, who knows when you put something
• 17:37
  S2: on paper, you have to stand behind that. It's right. Is, uh,
• 17:41
  S2: you know, what are you. What are you working on, Kara?
• 17:44
  S3: So for the first, for sort of the inaugural how
• 17:47
  S3: it really works, um, you know, you and I decided
• 17:50
  S3: together that a really good one might be like this
• 17:52
  S3: whole thing of. Have you ever wondered why, in the
• 17:55
  S3: greatest democracy in the world, almost no one ever runs
• 17:59
  S3: for president of the United States as an independent. So
• 18:03
  S3: the answer is that running as an independent is extremely difficult,
• 18:08
  S3: if not impossible. And that's why so very, very, very
• 18:11
  S3: few people have ever attempted it and why no one has,
• 18:15
  S3: you know, in modern history has ever won. So we
• 18:17
  S3: wrote this article, um, called How it Really Works, um,
• 18:21
  S3: and How Presidential Elections really work when it comes to
• 18:25
  S3: independent candidacies. And it goes through in a very in-depth
• 18:29
  S3: way and talks about ballot access issues, um, talks about
• 18:34
  S3: how partisans design the timing of ballot access deadlines to
• 18:38
  S3: block outsiders about how signature requirements in states are a
• 18:45
  S3: nearly impossible task. Did you did you.
• 18:49
  S2: Did you fit the Commission on Presidential Debates into this?
• 18:52
  S3: Yeah. Of course. There's a whole section about, you know,
• 18:55
  S3: my favorite organization, the Commission on Presidential Debates, which has
• 19:00
  S3: rules that they have had since 1988, which have, uh,
• 19:05
  S3: you know, denied an independent candidate access to the debate stage. Uh, and,
• 19:11
  S3: you know, if you can't get on the debate stage,
• 19:13
  S3: you can't become president. We talk about all the different,
• 19:16
  S3: enormous fundraising disadvantages that there are. There's a problem with
• 19:21
  S3: our electoral college and our winner take all system. That
• 19:24
  S3: means that even if an independent candidate got 25% in
• 19:28
  S3: every single state in the Union on election day, they
• 19:31
  S3: would still maybe, you know, they would still not win
• 19:34
  S3: a single electoral college. A college vote. So we're looking
• 19:38
  S3: at all the obstacles. There's even like intimidation that has
• 19:41
  S3: gone on in 2024. I don't know if you know this, Chad,
• 19:45
  S3: but there's an organization called No Labels that basically has
• 19:49
  S3: filed a Justice Department complaint saying that these organizations conspired
• 19:54
  S3: to intimidate and harass um, its representatives and its donors
• 19:58
  S3: and even its potential candidates to prevent them from achieving
• 20:01
  S3: ballot access for 2024. Um, so.
• 20:06
  S2: If I can interject a little bit just to explain
• 20:09
  S2: for the listeners, um, some, you know, even those that
• 20:12
  S2: have followed me just like to re-emphasize, like a lot
• 20:15
  S2: of times when you're talking about independence, going back to
• 20:17
  S2: like that small I independent is like, this could be
• 20:21
  S2: a third party candidate, frankly, it could be somebody running
• 20:23
  S2: outside of the machine. We've all seen how candidates who
• 20:26
  S2: are Democrats and Republicans who aren't embraced by the powers
• 20:30
  S2: that be, just kind of get pushed out. Is that
• 20:33
  S2: a lot of times when we're using the phrase independent,
• 20:36
  S2: it could mean a third party or an independent. We're
• 20:39
  S2: talking about somebody outside the structure. I also want to
• 20:42
  S2: qualify that. That doesn't mean any of us are anti-party.
• 20:46
  S2: It's not like we have this big grievance against Republicans
• 20:49
  S2: and Democrats, especially when you're talking about, you know, your
• 20:51
  S2: average Republican and Democrat or even folks in office. They
• 20:54
  S2: have to live in the world that exists, too. We're
• 20:57
  S2: really talking about a system, right? My father was in
• 21:00
  S2: the legislature as a Democrat for over 22 years. My
• 21:03
  S2: mother is a Republican. I have Republican, Democrat friends are
• 21:08
  S2: very proud of their party. There's nothing wrong with that.
• 21:10
  S2: But we've created structures that, you know, and this is
• 21:13
  S2: my personal bias. I honestly believe that reform will strengthen
• 21:19
  S2: the Republican and Democratic parties themselves, because a lack of competition,
• 21:24
  S2: I think, has created weaker parties. Yes, they may hold
• 21:28
  S2: a lot of offices, but the fact that you have
• 21:30
  S2: a 20 something percent approval rating of Congress, I think
• 21:34
  S2: is indicative that the people may not support them. So
• 21:38
  S2: it's how do you measure your power by the number
• 21:40
  S2: of seats or how how whether the voters actually like you?
• 21:45
  S3: Yeah. I mean, I'm I'm a proud, proud Democrat. I've
• 21:49
  S3: almost exclusively worked for Democrats. I mean, I did work
• 21:52
  S3: for Angus King when he ran for United States Senate
• 21:55
  S3: in 2012. Um, but, you know, I think I'm, I
• 22:01
  S3: think I'm pro party, but I'm a little bit upset
• 22:07
  S3: about how the system, the two party system, sort of
• 22:11
  S3: the two parties working together, have created this system that's
• 22:15
  S3: almost designed to crush their competition, to crush the outsiders,
• 22:19
  S3: making it really impossible for people who aren't, um, a
• 22:23
  S3: Democrat or a Republican to compete at a serious level.
• 22:26
  S3: I'm I'm upset at the way that they've sort of
• 22:29
  S3: together entrenched themselves in our politics and control most of
• 22:36
  S3: the political infrastructure. They control the debates. They control the funding.
• 22:40
  S3: And that that through this, voters have kind of gotten
• 22:43
  S3: used to that. They only have this binary choice, right,
• 22:46
  S3: that they can only choose one or the other and
• 22:48
  S3: are left oftentimes, uh, feeling like they have to choose
• 22:53
  S3: between one or the other and, and not even feeling
• 22:56
  S3: free to be able to choose who they like the most. Um,
• 23:00
  S3: who might be an outsider, um, who's who is just
• 23:04
  S3: as qualified but doesn't have a D or an R
• 23:06
  S3: after their name. So yeah, I'm I'm definitely not against
• 23:09
  S3: the parties. I'm a super proud Democrat, um, you know,
• 23:13
  S3: and and I'll vote. I'll vote for independence and work
• 23:17
  S3: for independence. Um, but, uh, I, I don't think we
• 23:23
  S3: have to settle for, for, um, for a system where
• 23:29
  S3: running as an independent is practically impossible and will basically
• 23:32
  S3: remain impossible for the rest of my life, for the
• 23:35
  S3: rest of my children's lives, and for the rest of
• 23:38
  S3: yours and your children's lives, and even your grandchildren's lives.
• 23:41
  S3: Unless there's like some sort of political shift that happens
• 23:43
  S3: in our democracy.
• 23:45
  S2: Well, I'm a proud, non-partisan NPP voter. They call him
• 23:49
  S2: in California. And just as a matter of transparency, you know,
• 23:52
  S2: I've done work for Republicans. I've my day job, how
• 23:57
  S2: I make a living. I do non-political stuff, and then
• 24:00
  S2: I also do some campaign work and public public outreach. And,
• 24:04
  S2: you know, I'm a vendor and in a in a
• 24:07
  S2: space where it's shocking, where most vendors like, they wear
• 24:10
  S2: blue jackets or red jackets. I'm very proud that, you know,
• 24:14
  S2: over the years I've worked for Gary Johnson, I've worked
• 24:16
  S2: for Tulsi Gabbard, I've worked for Ted Cruz, I've worked for, um,
• 24:20
  S2: a very left firms that have hired us to do
• 24:23
  S2: creative work. Right. Um, I'm proud of that. I don't
• 24:26
  S2: have to agree with everything every client does, but I'm
• 24:29
  S2: just giving you that background as a matter of transparency
• 24:32
  S2: so you know who I am. But one issue I
• 24:34
  S2: want to bring up, because, I mean, it's omnipresent. The
• 24:39
  S2: I love Donald Trump, I hate Donald Trump. And we're
• 24:41
  S2: going to try to stay out of that conversation. I
• 24:43
  S2: think it's largely irrelevant. Um, and a lot of the
• 24:46
  S2: discussions of how do we fix the way things work,
• 24:48
  S2: but here's a case in point was, you know, they're
• 24:53
  S2: trying to pass this continuing resolution, which did end up passing,
• 24:57
  S2: but a guy named Thomas Massie says, there's no way
• 25:00
  S2: I'm going to vote for this. Right. And Trump goes
• 25:02
  S2: out there, I'm going to primary you. You're just grandstanding
• 25:05
  S2: right now. Trump does this very publicly. Right. But there's
• 25:12
  S2: there's a couple set of facts like if anybody knows
• 25:14
  S2: you don't have to agree with him or not, but
• 25:17
  S2: Thomas Massie is not a grandstander. You may call him
• 25:19
  S2: an ideologue like you may agree with his ideology, may not.
• 25:22
  S2: But he's a very principled and acts on principle. And
• 25:25
  S2: he always has been in office because he's, you know, know,
• 25:27
  S2: he's a small L libertarian. And he had a he said,
• 25:32
  S2: I never vote for these things. Right. And the point being,
• 25:37
  S2: it's not just Donald Trump. Donald Trump does it very
• 25:40
  S2: publicly and says it, but the game that exists is, hey, hey, look,
• 25:43
  S2: I'm trying to get this passed. We need to get
• 25:45
  S2: this passed in this system that we have. I'm going.
• 25:48
  S2: He says, I'm going to primary you. What that means
• 25:51
  S2: is your district is going to be represented by a Republican.
• 25:56
  S2: You're going to have a closed primary in Kentucky, where
• 25:59
  S2: a lot less people are going to vote, and they're
• 26:00
  S2: just going to be Republicans. And guess what? Most of
• 26:03
  S2: them support me. So I'm going to try to take
• 26:06
  S2: you out at that stage of the election. I think
• 26:09
  S2: that's a great example not to bash Trump. Okay. That's
• 26:13
  S2: what Trump did in playing the game. It's I don't
• 26:16
  S2: agree with it. I don't like that strategy. But you know,
• 26:20
  S2: don't kid yourselves. Democrats do this. And most of the
• 26:22
  S2: time it's because they get a phone call from somebody
• 26:25
  S2: or somebody consulting stuff and say, you better fall in
• 26:28
  S2: line or you're about to face a massive attack from
• 26:31
  S2: the powers that be, right? They just don't do it
• 26:34
  S2: so publicly, right? Those are the types of things that
• 26:38
  S2: I think we would like to explain. And then I
• 26:41
  S2: think that also leads us into okay, well, well then
• 26:43
  S2: what is your ethic, Chad? You obviously have opinions. You
• 26:46
  S2: have bias. You express them. Cara. You you know, you're
• 26:48
  S2: a Democrat. You're going to have your opinions and bias.
• 26:52
  S2: That's okay. We're not we are not unbiased as ivna.
• 26:57
  S2: We are proud for over ten years. I mean, media
• 26:59
  S2: bias fact check has rated us as unbiased, but, you know,
• 27:02
  S2: based on not being able to categorize us as left
• 27:05
  S2: or right, um, all sides has ranked us right in
• 27:08
  S2: the middle. Um, I think that's because Ivan's editorial standards
• 27:12
  S2: are simple. No partisan attacks. What that means is don't
• 27:16
  S2: make an argument and say, oh, because Republicans are stupid
• 27:19
  S2: or because Democrats are crazy, right? Make an argument. Attack
• 27:23
  S2: what is no partisan attacks. No personal attacks. Same thing. Right?
• 27:28
  S2: Calling somebody an idiot is not how you advance an argument. Um,
• 27:33
  S2: substantiate what you say. If you're going to say something,
• 27:36
  S2: you know, point us to some set of facts or
• 27:39
  S2: something that we can trust, you know, to substantiate it.
• 27:42
  S2: And then the last one that that's a little different
• 27:45
  S2: needs some explaining is no self-promotion. I mean, by definition,
• 27:49
  S2: especially if we have a candidate or a representative or
• 27:52
  S2: somebody on, you know, everybody's always self-promoting because we're justifying
• 27:56
  S2: our positions. And what we do with no self-promotion is like,
• 27:59
  S2: don't come on here to sell t shirts. Don't come
• 28:02
  S2: on here to BS. Right. If you're going to write
• 28:04
  S2: an article, it's not a press release is make an argument. Okay.
• 28:08
  S2: So you know that etiquette I think over time, um,
• 28:12
  S2: has withstood the test of time. And you can go
• 28:14
  S2: on ivn everything. Um, you know, that's our grounding principle. Um,
• 28:20
  S2: you know, over the years, I think we're well over 7500,
• 28:24
  S2: you know, news articles that we've published. A lot of,
• 28:27
  S2: you know, Sean Griffiths, who's been our tried and true
• 28:30
  S2: editor for a long time, takes the etiquette very seriously.
• 28:34
  S2: Perhaps nobody understands the breadth of the election reform landscape,
• 28:39
  S2: including myself and Cara, as much as as Sean Griffiths does. Um,
• 28:43
  S2: but that's the same ethic, especially as we expand out
• 28:46
  S2: into talking about additional issues. Right. When you go and
• 28:51
  S2: you take an issue like cannabis and say, well, what's
• 28:54
  S2: really going on in the cannabis space is it really
• 28:58
  S2: is the debate really about legalization versus not legalization? My
• 29:03
  S2: answer would be, well, you know, watch, watch the how
• 29:06
  S2: it really works series. And you'll see, like, that's not
• 29:09
  S2: the real fight going on right now. Um, and IBM's
• 29:13
  S2: just going to wants to lay out the facts so
• 29:16
  S2: that then you can say, okay, well, maybe now here's
• 29:19
  S2: how I'd view the policy. Right. So that's a big background.
• 29:23
  S2: That's our mission. That's about us. Uh, Cara, I don't
• 29:27
  S2: know if you have any parting words. I'm very excited
• 29:30
  S2: to embark on this, uh, with you.
• 29:33
  S3: Uh, efforts that I've been involved in to advance nonpartisan
• 29:41
  S3: reforms have been successful. The ones that have been successful
• 29:47
  S3: have been successful because it's Democrats and Republicans and independents
• 29:51
  S3: all working together, not in a nonpartisan way to do
• 29:57
  S3: something structurally that benefits all of us. Uh, instead of
• 30:04
  S3: choosing a side and digging in and going to war.
• 30:09
  S3: And so if this podcast and the work that we
• 30:13
  S3: do together, um, can lead more people to sort of
• 30:18
  S3: come along with that ethos. You know, Chad, we've said
• 30:22
  S3: this to each other over and over and over again.
• 30:24
  S3: We know from looking at polling and and from doing
• 30:29
  S3: all these elections all these years and just from being
• 30:31
  S3: from living in this space that people who are out there,
• 30:35
  S3: we agree on so much more than we disagree on. Right. We, um,
• 30:41
  S3: in Maine, we just ran an initiative to end superPACs
• 30:45
  S3: in the state of Maine, and we ended up with 74.9%
• 30:50
  S3: of the vote. So, um, in a general election, we
• 30:54
  S3: got 600,000 votes. It's more votes than were cast for
• 30:59
  S3: any initiative or any politician in the history of the
• 31:02
  S3: entire state of Maine elections. Wow. So when I'm driving
• 31:05
  S3: around or walking around in the supermarket in Maine, I
• 31:08
  S3: can look and say, you know, three out of every
• 31:11
  S3: four people that I'm looking at in the supermarket agree
• 31:14
  S3: that we need to get rid of super PACs. You know,
• 31:16
  S3: and we agree on that. And it doesn't matter. We
• 31:19
  S3: want in every single of the 16 counties we won
• 31:22
  S3: in every single red county and every single blue county.
• 31:26
  S3: There are ideas that are strong enough to sort of
• 31:30
  S3: transcend the partisan warfare for all of us. And so hopefully,
• 31:36
  S3: Ivn continues to be a space where people can can
• 31:39
  S3: write about that. And this podcast where we can talk
• 31:42
  S3: about talk about that. And, you know, I have a
• 31:45
  S3: little card on my desk that my husband gave me
• 31:48
  S3: for Valentine's Day that says, love is when two people
• 31:51
  S3: begin with a dream and never stop believing. And you know, Chad,
• 31:55
  S3: I think that that's that's us too. You know, we've
• 31:58
  S3: had this dream for a long time. And, um, even now,
• 32:02
  S3: when a lot of people are sort of throwing up
• 32:04
  S3: their hands or pulling the covers over their heads in
• 32:08
  S3: their beds and not wanting to get out of out
• 32:10
  S3: of bed because of, you know, sort of where we are,
• 32:13
  S3: you know, never stop believing. That's that's part of that's
• 32:16
  S3: part of of of what, what we're here to do.
• 32:19
  S2: Well, I feel very optimistic about a lot of things,
• 32:24
  S2: including the country itself and our and the and the
• 32:27
  S2: development of. I mean, democracy is not easy. A representative democracy.
• 32:32
  S2: I can already hear people. We're not a democracy. It's like,
• 32:34
  S2: you know, well, that itself that just that requires a
• 32:37
  S2: whole discussion, right? Um, but I'm optimistic. Right. We we
• 32:42
  S2: improve over the years. We have ups, we have downs,
• 32:45
  S2: we have fights, we have all this kind of stuff. But, um,
• 32:49
  S2: you can see the the the things that need the
• 32:53
  S2: the relationships that need to be made, the conversation, the
• 32:56
  S2: conditions are, are becoming ripe. And we can choose to
• 32:59
  S2: be pessimistic or pessimistic and think the world's going to
• 33:02
  S2: fall or, or we can be optimistic and see those
• 33:05
  S2: opportunities and hope they manifest.
• 33:08
  S3: Totally. And if we do that, you know, the exercise,
• 33:12
  S3: the exercise of doing our democracy helps restore and save
• 33:16
  S3: our democracy. You know, being involved, staying informed, being an
• 33:19
  S3: active part of of of of democracy and and sharing.
• 33:24
  S3: Sharing yourself. This is all. These are all. This is
• 33:27
  S3: all about our freedom. And the more that we do it,
• 33:29
  S3: the better that we get at it. And, um, hopefully
• 33:32
  S3: we'll be we'll be unified. Um, we will be more unified.
• 33:36
  S2: I can already hear the things is, you know, some
• 33:38
  S2: people go, you know, democracy, right? Like, you know, that's
• 33:41
  S2: code word for, you know, you know, a liberal cause
• 33:45
  S2: or whatever. And so one of the things I always
• 33:47
  S2: think is like, okay, we're talking about representative democracy, constitutional democracy, right.
• 33:52
  S2: And like how our representatives get get elected. Right. Um,
• 33:57
  S2: it's it's crazy that those words have become politicized and
• 34:01
  S2: partisan ized and everything themselves. But I'm hoping that, you know,
• 34:05
  S2: in our discussions and stuff is like, okay, if that's
• 34:09
  S2: the way you feel, say it. But then let's have
• 34:10
  S2: a conversation about it, right?
• 34:13
  S3: Absolutely, absolutely.
• 34:15
  S2: I encourage you to, you know, subscribe to the podcast,
• 34:18
  S2: check out Independent Voter Project.org come to events, um, you know,
• 34:24
  S2: and check out the types of things we're talking about.
• 34:26
  S2: Follow us on Facebook, Instagram, and check out things like
• 34:31
  S2: the National Association of Nonpartisan Reformers, where you find there's
• 34:35
  S2: other organizations like that I've mentioned before, like Open primaries,
• 34:39
  S2: Unite America. Um, fairvote. There's there's a lot of organizations
• 34:46
  S2: out there. You may not agree with everything that they're doing.
• 34:48
  S2: They may, you know, you may say, oh, well, they're
• 34:50
  S2: really just a Democrat or really just a Republican organization.
• 34:53
  S2: I say a lot of these organizations, people have their
• 34:56
  S2: own ideological ideologies. They have their own perspectives and stuff.
• 35:00
  S2: But there's a lot of them that are trying to
• 35:02
  S2: advance good. And I think the best thing we can
• 35:04
  S2: do is to engage, to talk and get involved. And
• 35:09
  S2: so I'd encourage that. Everybody does that. Um, so, Kara,
• 35:13
  S2: I want to thank you for joining us today. I
• 35:15
  S2: know you're busy and but, you know, folks are going
• 35:17
  S2: to read a lot more from Cara. And I'm sure
• 35:19
  S2: you're going to be on, on this podcast. And a
• 35:21
  S2: number of times, um, you know, somebody like yourself brings
• 35:24
  S2: such a depth of knowledge and perspective, um, not just
• 35:27
  S2: to the reform space, but, I mean, your day job
• 35:29
  S2: of doing all this opposition research and really understanding, you know,
• 35:33
  S2: much deeper than the superficial political, you know, partisan discussions
• 35:36
  S2: that happen, you know, more generally. Um, I think provide
• 35:40
  S2: a great value. Um, so thank you for taking the time.
• 35:43
  S2: I'm looking forward to, to this work together. And then
• 35:46
  S2: I want to thank all of our listeners for, for
• 35:48
  S2: chiming in. And I hope we're going to you're going
• 35:50
  S2: to enjoy the content and the information that we bring you.
• 35:53
  S2: So thank you. I'm Chad Peace and you're listening to
• 35:55
  S2: the Independent Voter podcast.
• 36:12
  S1: Olas Media.