Latest / Urantia Radio / Light, Truth and Free Speech with Guest Barry Culligan

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Light, Truth and Free Speech with Guest Barry Culligan · Urantia Radio

0:00
Welcome to the Urantia Radio Podcast.
0:02
My name is Jim Watkins, the host, longtime student and
0:05
reader of the 5th epical Revelation, and we have a very,
0:09
very special podcast. I have a great guest coming on
0:12
board. I ran across an article written
0:15
by Barry Culligan. It appeared in the Urantia
0:17
Fellowship Mini Messenger e-mail that I subscribe to and it has
0:22
to do with freedom of speech and how today there seems to be an
0:26
effort being put forth by governments that censorship is
0:31
somehow acceptable in order to keep the peace.
0:36
Now Barry's insightful article declares that this is not the
0:40
way our universe rulers deal with things, as illustrated by
0:45
the events of the Lucifer rebellion in the Urantia book,
0:48
which is depicted in great detail.
0:51
Let me read the introduction to Barry's essay, then we will talk
0:55
to Barry about this and other Urantia book topics which I know
0:59
you will enjoy. And this is what Barry writes on
1:03
the subject of rebellion and free speech.
1:05
He says we find ourselves in the Information age, in which there
1:09
is a preponderance of data but a veritable famine of wisdom.
1:14
Each age has its very own modalities, often marked off by
1:18
weaponry and or technology. In the information age, the
1:21
weapon of choice is information. Noam Chomsky once said that
1:26
quote what violence is to a dictatorship, propaganda is to a
1:31
democracy. It is a means used by the few to
1:35
achieve specific desires, goals and ambitions.
1:39
It is a weapon used to control perception, construct
1:43
narratives, to frame discourse, with the aim being to persuade,
1:49
to convince. The Urantia book gives an
1:51
interesting analysis of the evolution of prayer and magic,
1:55
of white magic and black magic. They point out that there are
1:59
both public and a private phase to magic that, performed by the
2:03
medicine man, shaman or priest was supposed to be for the good
2:08
of the whole tribe. Meanwhile, witches, sorcerers,
2:11
and Wizards dispensed private magic, personal and selfish
2:15
magic, which was employed as a coercive method of bringing evil
2:20
on one's enemies. This distinction between the
2:23
public and the private sphere is key, Berry writes.
2:28
Once evil plans are made public, they quickly are destroyed.
2:32
One's information about the unsavory machinations, nefarious
2:36
designs, and the intentions of the wicked make it to the public
2:40
square. Their cards are marked and their
2:43
plans are soon brought to naughty.
2:46
The common man has a sense of fairness, and when it becomes
2:49
apparent that a small minority are working to the detriment of
2:53
the whole tribe, that wicked minority becomes the focal point
2:57
of the vengeance of the whole tribe.
3:00
Consequently, the wicked have always had a vested interest in
3:05
perception management. They cannot allow their plans to
3:09
see the light of day because if they know, if Joe Public becomes
3:13
aware of them, the jig will be up.
3:16
The sanitizing nature of the public square is akin to a sort
3:20
of immune system and teaches us that the longer issues remain
3:25
hidden and undetected, the greater damage they can do.
3:29
It struck me, he writes, how the Divine manages their public
3:34
square. For them, the sooner issues are
3:36
exposed, the quicker they can be dealt with.
3:39
Jesus had No Fear of truth. Indeed, He taught that the
3:43
recognition of truth would make us free and admonished his
3:47
followers to be patient, for the truth never suffers from honest
3:51
examination. And with that, we introduce our
3:54
guest to talk about free speech and the light of truth here on
3:58
the Iranian Radio Podcast with my guest, Barry Culligan.
4:02
Barry is in Ireland. And how long have you been a
4:05
your Rancho Book reader? Hi Jim, thanks very much for
4:08
having me. I appreciate the chance to speak
4:10
with you. I've been a long time listener
4:12
to your podcast. Oh, thank you.
4:14
So it's, it's kind of fun to actually end up talking to you.
4:16
It's cool. So I am stuck in the West of
4:21
Ireland. I live in a place in County
4:23
Galway, just West of Galway City in a place called Uktar, which
4:26
is known as the gateway to Conomera and Connemara is the
4:31
wild, wild lands of Ireland. So along the West Coast of
4:34
Ireland there was there was the same said once that for every
4:39
mile you go West of Dublin, you go a year back in time.
4:43
So by the time you reach the West of Ireland, the very ages,
4:45
you're 150 years back it's. Amazing.
4:49
And in a sense, it's a bit like that.
4:51
There are wild and Pagan out the West, but so I'm right on the
4:55
edges there, stricting the city and the the countryside as it
4:59
was. And I've been living here now
5:01
for a good number of years. I've married with two kids.
5:05
I lost my heart to a Galway girl, as the song goes.
5:08
And so we're living in a beautiful part of, of Ireland
5:14
and I've been here for a long time.
5:16
So my, I first encountered the Urantia book 20 odd years ago, I
5:24
think it was around 2024 years ago.
5:27
I had been studying philosophy and theology in college.
5:32
And while there I, I, it's like I'd make a Long story short just
5:39
to save you trouble. And so basically ended up
5:42
researching process theology. And when I went on to check out
5:46
process theology, when the first thing that came up was a link to
5:50
the entity book. And I was like, what, how was
5:53
this connected? What, what is this thing?
5:55
And it was very, there was a fellow, an Australian fellow.
5:57
He used to have a thing called the lighthouse something he was
6:01
fairly well known anti book reader at the time, an advocate.
6:04
And he had this website and this, it's linked to the, the
6:07
teachings. And I started kind of posing and
6:12
then I spotted the discourse and true religion, and it blew my
6:15
world apart. I thought.
6:18
I thought it was just amazing because I had been, I've been
6:21
kind of at a crossroads spiritually in my life.
6:23
You know, I had found Jesus and I was delighted that I found
6:27
Jesus. But I was very, very
6:29
disconcerted by the traditions surrounding the life of Jesus.
6:35
You know, I had a very great, great difficulty with the
6:38
atonement doctrine. It just didn't seem to add up to
6:40
me, you know, and eventually I kind of had reached a point in
6:44
my life where I just said to Jesus, I said, look, I can't
6:46
figure out what the answer is. You have me.
6:48
That's no problem. You're a God.
6:50
You can figure out how to help me find the truth.
6:52
You, you can lead me through this.
6:55
And within a month, I had the energy book in my hands.
6:57
And that was all she wrote. And I've been reading the book
7:00
every day for the last 25 years since, you know.
7:04
You know, it's funny, you mentioned the discourse on
7:06
religion. It was at that moment where I
7:09
threw in the intellectual towel, as they say, and it was that
7:13
same, I think it's paper 155. And that that to me gave gave
7:19
validity to what I was reading. I felt at that moment that
7:23
whoever wrote the book absolutely had access to the
7:26
truth. It just resonated so much.
7:29
So I think that's interesting that that also spoke to you as
7:32
well. Like it was it for me.
7:36
It was terrifying to read because my heart desperately
7:41
wanted it to be true. But at the same time, if it was
7:44
true, then that means this book was an actual revelation.
7:48
Like an actual for real revelation, like, Oh my God, how
7:52
do you how do you, how do you deal with that?
7:54
You know, what does that mean? What does that mean for your
7:56
life? Like, you know, it's like Philip
7:58
and Nathaniel, you know, happened to bump into the
8:00
Messiah on the way to the boats. You know, it's like, how do you
8:04
deal with that? Like, you know, this is this has
8:06
happened to you. So in my case, I found this book
8:08
and I was I was like shaking at the Todd like this is just to be
8:12
the real thing. This to be really.
8:14
And I would was a fight in my heart for a long time kind of
8:16
saying, yes, it is. No one isn't yes, it is.
8:18
No one isn't. Oh my God, what am I going to
8:19
do, you know? But eventually I was like, this
8:22
is the real thing, man. This is the real deal.
8:25
And I have been devotedly reading it now since, you know,
8:31
hardly a days past and I haven't been in the book.
8:33
It's a wonderful story really, and you also have the pleasure
8:37
of working with a group. You help with the local church.
8:42
And you, you 20 or so? What did you say, nuns?
8:47
Yeah, so I'm a community leader, community leader for nuns in, in
8:51
Galway. So for the last year I didn't.
8:54
So I'm, I'm, I'm an honorary nun now amongst the ladies in
8:57
Galway. They, I'm the, I'm the Mother
8:59
Superior, the Brother Superior. And so they, they've accepted me
9:05
and schooled me for the last year.
9:07
And they're a wonderful, wonderful bunch.
9:09
And it's been fascinating working with them because, you
9:12
know, I would have been far from that side of religious life, but
9:17
it's very interesting to, to see a community of women who've
9:20
devoted their whole lives to the Lord and to service, you know,
9:24
and what they gave up and what they gained and what they did.
9:28
And, uh, I find it fascinating too, because these are people
9:31
like, you know, who career professionals say, like, you
9:34
know, that you're talking about school principals, matrons,
9:38
social workers, heads of department.
9:40
And they were getting, you know, the, the same money anybody else
9:43
would get to those jobs, except every single penny was given
9:45
over to the order, you know, and they were given a stipend each
9:49
month to keep them tipping on, you know, so they lived a life
9:51
and service for the handed over every penny.
9:53
And I look at that, the devotion, the commitment that
9:57
they've had. And I kind of wonder where in
9:59
the your anti book community could we emulate that, you know,
10:02
because we don't have, you know, yourself, the your anti book
10:04
community doesn't have a religion or the other name yet.
10:07
Like, you know, and how can we as a community come together
10:10
religiously? And I think about that and I
10:13
kind of reflect on the lives that the nuns have lived and how
10:16
that might be used to inform the the spiritual and religious
10:20
evolution of the Unity book community.
10:23
So that's things that I enjoy kind of reflecting on.
10:26
Do you feel, do you ever feel compelled to share the fact that
10:31
you have the Urantia book with these people that you work with?
10:34
Or do you feel that sort of not really because it would could
10:38
could create a little conflict, couldn't?
10:41
You know the deal, Jim. This book is sent ahead of his
10:44
time. Nobody wants this book.
10:48
Nobody wants this book and I've tried it.
10:51
Of course they do. They do appreciate the
10:54
teachings. If you can, if you can as a, as
10:56
a said, you know, breakdown the grains of truth to make it into
10:59
an acceptable form for the spiritually hungry.
11:02
There's so much in the book. There's so much in the book to
11:05
enrich and ennoble and strengthen and invigorate
11:09
spiritually anybody you encounter.
11:11
You just have to be able to, to to translate the book into a
11:15
language they can understand. And that's why sometimes I find
11:19
when I see your anti book forums or prodigy of through themselves
11:22
and it's like everybody can teach an alien talking like
11:26
that. You know, you're not you're not
11:27
connecting with them at their level.
11:30
I I do no more than yourself. I've tried to do the whole
11:32
podcasting, you know, but very cheap version of it.
11:36
But I did one called about the the, the duties of the shepherd
11:42
and the duties of the shepherds to feed, to find and to send and
11:45
the so when it comes to taking care of a flock, you've got to
11:50
feed them. You've got to give them
11:51
spiritual inertia. You've got to find them.
11:53
So people get lost and like life is confusing, frightening and
11:57
bewildering. And you have to learn to listen
11:59
to people. And when you learn to listen to
12:01
people, then you can help them. You can't help them unless you
12:04
listen. You know from the sheep are
12:06
lost. You have to sit down, stay
12:09
silent and try to find out what direction did they go in.
12:12
You can wander off in any direction.
12:13
It's not necessarily going to be helpful, but if you listen,
12:15
you'll get a hint of how you can go and where you can go to, to
12:19
be a greatest service, you know, to the person that needs it the
12:22
most. So yeah.
12:26
It's, you know, the last time I, my last episode, I, I read just
12:31
one or two sections on the home life of Jesus.
12:36
And, and it talks a lot about Jesus's parents and what they
12:40
were like. And I, and I've only read maybe
12:43
that passage 20 times. And every time I read it, it
12:47
reaches out to me in a new way. And I feel like there's somebody
12:50
out there that has never heard the story of Joseph.
12:54
They don't, you know, or the relationship that Jesus had with
12:57
his parents, some of the characteristics that they got
13:00
that he got from his parents. And I thought, my God, that if
13:03
I, if I was searching for, for something and I heard somebody
13:07
tell me that story, I might just be inclined to say, man, that's
13:12
pretty spectacular. And, and it happens all the
13:15
time. We're just a passage, one little
13:17
passage. And it's, you could walk around
13:20
for a week just thinking about one little passage.
13:23
That's how powerful this book is sometimes, I think.
13:27
Yeah, but again, it's people have to be, have to be in the
13:32
right place at the right time for it.
13:34
You know, if people are not searching, people are not
13:38
seekers, then you can't give them the book because they it's,
13:41
it's, it's a waste of time for them.
13:43
You know, people have to be spiritually hungry.
13:45
I think, you know, and at that point in my life, I was, I was
13:48
really like highly motivated, you know, I had been through
13:52
some very profound spiritual experiences and, and really, I
13:57
really wanted to kind of have a proper deep connection with,
13:59
with the, with God and life and Jesus.
14:02
And that book really opened it up for me.
14:05
But like, I've, I've given away how many of the books and like
14:08
they just, they used to hold open doors, you know, the big
14:11
every book like, and it's so it's so disappointing because
14:14
you think, Oh my God, you've got so much treasure in your hands
14:17
and you just don't see it. So, but for me, the, the, the
14:20
key has been to learn how to, to, to present it in a way that
14:23
is attractive to, to present the, the truths in an acceptable
14:27
fashion. And I can be.
14:29
I've been pretty successful at that, you know.
14:31
Yeah. So let's talk a little bit about
14:34
what's happening right now in the world.
14:36
And we're watching it on TV, although over here, you would be
14:40
surprised, Barry, at how little coverage our our American media
14:45
is giving over what's happening in in particularly London.
14:49
But certainly you're affected because you're part of the UK.
14:53
But even this conversation, I thought of, of the fact that it
14:56
could be dangerous if we were, if you were to say the wrong
15:00
thing. So I have to, I don't know.
15:02
I think I have to be careful because they're coming up with
15:05
these laws now where they can arrest you if you say the wrong
15:09
things on a social media post or and, and, and, and I want to get
15:13
to. Your article, because they're
15:16
going to have to, they have to pick on, they have to pick their
15:18
Baptist because there's too many people saying the wrong thing.
15:21
You know, they can't arrest everybody and the court systems
15:25
couldn't function like, you know, so eventually there's
15:29
going to be too many people speaking the truth anyway.
15:31
So you have to speak the truth that you have moral obligation
15:33
to speak the truth. Yeah.
15:35
You know, and I mean like the Spirit within you will wrestle
15:39
with you if you allow fear to hold you back.
15:43
You know, if you will not preach, if you will not admit
15:46
the truth to fear, and if you're not serving God, then you know
15:50
you have a problem. So in your article Afraid of
15:54
that? Yeah, Let me read just a little
15:55
bit, share with the listeners. You you talk about during the
16:00
rebellion, the Lucifer rebellion, that there was no
16:04
attempt made to shut down or censor or in any way affect
16:09
Lucifer's proclamation liberty, which is what set the whole
16:13
rebellion in in motion. And you talk about the
16:16
sanitizing nature of the public square and how it's sort of acts
16:20
like an immune system response because when things are
16:24
discussed out in the open, there are no secrets that the light of
16:29
truth will take care of the the misinformation, if you will.
16:33
Because of the darkness and evil to recoil, they can't live in
16:36
the light of truth. And so why do you think that
16:40
people, Is it because people want secret societies?
16:44
Is it because the powerful want people to be kept in the dark
16:48
and so they don't want them asking the right questions?
16:51
Or, well, is this all to be? Learned by evil I mean they
16:55
can't. Umm, is this sorry?
16:58
Is this all driven by evil? Is that what you said?
17:00
Yeah, or the fear of the truth. Certainly, I'd say the driven by
17:06
selfish intention, you know, and prosecuted by nefarious means,
17:11
the like, if you can't say it openly if you'd like.
17:17
I mean, if you've got a plan to reduce the quality of life for a
17:21
million people, you know, dramatically, then they might
17:26
object to that plan. You know, if they become aware
17:29
of the fact that you've got something in play which is going
17:32
to adverse the impact their health, their quantity of life
17:36
and the quantity of life for their children, you could expect
17:39
some resistance. So in order to carry out their
17:42
schemes, they need to be able to ensure that you don't know about
17:45
it, you know, so they have to be able to control the narrative.
17:49
They have to be able to load people into a false sense of
17:51
security. And we're going to find nothing
17:53
to worry about. It's all OK here, here's the
17:56
bread and here's the circus. Go on.
17:58
And then be entertained with that, you know?
18:00
But the shepherds who follow the voice of truth or the spirit of
18:04
truth, they recognize that there's a danger to the flock,
18:07
even if the flock aren't conscious of it.
18:10
And they're the ones who raise the Alarum and say, look,
18:12
there's, there's people are making moves here.
18:15
They're going to hurt you. You know, they, they come to the
18:17
people to warn them that there is a conspiracy at play, if you
18:23
will, uh, to, to undermine their security and to, uh, transfer
18:27
wealth from them. You know, we saw just recently
18:30
the most massive transfer of wealth from the middle class
18:33
into five hands in, in ever, you know, uh, massive wealth
18:38
transfer over the, the, the last, I suppose you'd call it,
18:42
but the pandemic is what it's known as.
18:44
So mothers called it a scam demic.
18:48
So that that was a massive thing.
18:49
Like, you know, people's rights were restricted.
18:52
They couldn't object, They couldn't engage in any rational
18:57
discussion about the matter, you know, and their, their
19:00
livelihoods were threatened. There was intimidation, there
19:02
was censorship. There was like, the full weight
19:07
of the, the the law was brought to bear to destroy lives and
19:11
careers, you know, if you had any dissent.
19:13
And now, years later, yeah, turns out it was only a cold or
19:16
a flu. Yeah, sorry about that.
19:18
It was pretty bad here too. I mean, we still have people
19:21
that are my wife is suffering from, I'm talking specifically
19:26
about the vaccines. And I know a lot of people.
19:28
I know people that lost their lives and their doctors are not
19:32
telling them the truth. The way that you, you, you kind
19:35
of phrase it is, is that there's an attempt at a top down control
19:38
of the market ideas and, and, and, and you also bring up the
19:43
fact that it's a lot of it has communist tendencies.
19:47
And we know that the Urantia book actually has a couple of
19:50
phrases where it says that communism is not an ideal way of
19:54
of. Government.
19:55
Yeah. And So what is in you, in you
19:59
and Ireland? I mean, you, your leaders, I
20:01
mean you can't talk about you've got to affirm people's pronouns.
20:06
You very. Strict, but that's, that's
20:08
government nonsense too, you know, like if you're working,
20:10
say in like the, in the health system, you know, if you're
20:15
working government bodies, only government bodies can afford to
20:17
do that sort of lunacy. Like, you know, but like
20:22
affirming pronouns, I don't know how that helps anybody in
20:24
anything. You know, it's, it's just
20:26
affirming people in their delusions, you know, which is
20:29
unfortunate because like I, I grew up watching mental illness.
20:33
I, my own mother had serious mental health problems.
20:36
She was in another psychiatric hospital and I saw people who
20:39
had serious psychiatric disorders.
20:43
And part of my desire for to help people find help and
20:46
happiness and wholeness, it comes from the fact that I was
20:49
so eager to try and help my mother overcome depression.
20:52
And for me, truth would set you free.
20:55
And truth can help you get out of all sorts of mental funks if
21:00
you can, if you have the courage to, to face up to it, to to it,
21:03
you know, and like, if you antibiotic, it takes a lot of
21:06
courage to face the truth. Like, and the when I look at
21:10
what's going on in the world right now, there's a
21:12
considerable psychic disturbance.
21:15
People are deeply happy and deeply confused and for all
21:18
kinds of reasons. But affirming people in their
21:21
delusions is not a part to health and to happiness and to
21:25
wholeness. You know it, it never was.
21:28
And, and when I see kind of this top down approach to healthcare,
21:32
which basically affirm them in their delusions, like that's you
21:37
can ask me to do that, but I don't have to do that.
21:39
I care about people and I talk to them and I, I work with them
21:42
where they're at and as best I can to help them find a way, you
21:45
know, like the idea of the shepherd listening to the sheep
21:48
to try and find out where they're trapped so that you can
21:51
help them get out of that place and find their way back to the
21:55
flock. You know, so this idea that you
21:59
have to affirm a pronoun, I don't know that that that is
22:02
helpful. It might be in a short term
22:04
thing, you know, both. For a long term thing, it's not.
22:09
It's not a solution to to genuine.
22:11
Well, it's a symbol. To me it's, it's, it's like 2 +
22:14
2 = 5 in, you know, 1984. It's like, don't believe your
22:20
own eyes, believe what the government tells you.
22:23
And that's what frightens me. You know, you make a good point
22:26
too. Also Barry, about how Jesus
22:28
dared to speak truth to power. He was not afraid of speaking
22:32
the light of truth, even though he actually upset the Sanhedrin
22:36
and the Sadducees and he upset the authorities and I and it,
22:41
and it really gets to that where when you start to see the here
22:46
in America, we have a real problem.
22:48
We have way too many secrets. We have national security
22:52
agencies that are doing things that are very secretive.
22:55
And when I start hearing that from a country that's supposedly
22:58
a moral beacon to the rest of the world, I start to question
23:02
what exactly are they doing in our name?
23:04
And, and, and why are they, why are they doing this?
23:07
It has to be driven by some absolute desire for power.
23:11
And that does not bode well. I worry that the United States,
23:15
having been given the initial revelation, will do exactly what
23:20
the Jewish religious leaders did when Jesus came.
23:24
Yes, that's where Jesus was born.
23:26
He was a Jew. He was a trained Jew.
23:29
But it was the Greeks that carried the truth to the West,
23:32
and it was not the Jews. And they lost out on it.
23:35
What could have been. They could have been the the the
23:38
carriers of the new revelation of Christ and instead they were
23:43
so caught up in their own religious authority and again,
23:47
that thirst for power over people.
23:50
It's just but it's curious to know where this thing will end
23:54
up. Will there be a country?
23:56
I often speculated perhaps 100 or maybe 200 years from now,
24:00
China might be the spiritual awakening there and they might
24:05
somehow embrace the Urantia book or or maybe it might be Africa
24:09
or Nairobi or somewhere, you know, Kenya.
24:12
Hard to know where the revelation?
24:14
You ever think about that? Where the revelation?
24:18
I do. I certainly do.
24:21
Well, we do know that eventually, eventually there
24:23
will be the areas of light life, you know, eventually the gospel
24:26
will conquer the earth. But it's a transition between
24:29
here and there that's kind of hard to see because right now we
24:32
seem to be right in the thick. Like, you know, where, you know,
24:35
they say you enter a long ton of where the light behind just
24:37
disappeared and the light in front of you hasn't appeared
24:39
yet. You know, and like here we are
24:42
with this fantastic revelation that nobody wants to and and
24:47
like the world is going up from flames.
24:49
You're like, guys, could I just just have a ditch for one minute
24:54
just about to go in there And you know, but we'll find a way,
25:00
you know, we'll find a way. There has to be a way to
25:02
connect. Like I write like crazy trying
25:04
to find a way to articulate these things that will appeal to
25:07
people. And sometimes it's hard, you
25:12
know, because like, your anti book gives you so much to work
25:15
with, you know? And it can be hard to find a way
25:19
to speak in the common man's tongue, you know?
25:26
Well, if you stick see, I've I've learned recently in the
25:28
last year or two, I stopped thinking of this as as a non
25:33
Christian religion because the Urantia book for there's not a
25:39
Christian in the world that could read the life and
25:42
teachings of Jesus and not be changed and not have a new
25:46
appreciation of Christ. This is impossible.
25:50
I think if you have a sincere love of Jesus and you read that
25:53
book and you change your life, if you have a sincere love, you
25:55
know you're not a cultural Christian like.
25:57
Yeah, and that kind of gets me to the point.
26:01
Do you wonder why Europe has gone so secular?
26:04
What's up with that? Well, I think a lot of it had to
26:08
do with the fact that Christianity was so second hand
26:12
in nature. You know, the the experience of
26:14
the Gospel was primarily a cultural, ritualistic and custom
26:18
based thing as opposed to spiritually engagement with the
26:22
fundamental truths of the Gospel.
26:24
You know, and I think part of that had to do with the church,
26:30
the Catholic Church itself in that it, they were so obsessed
26:34
with ritual and obedience and adherence.
26:37
You know, it's kind of lost, it's lost its way.
26:40
And even the like there's prophets within the church
26:42
themselves that say, you know, the church is about to entering
26:45
into a phase of purging and where it's going to be seriously
26:49
put through the wringer because it has wandered away from from
26:54
the the gospel, you know, and it can rediscover itself
26:56
eventually. But I think that's part of it.
26:59
I think, say the this schism with the the Protestant
27:03
religions, it was important for the spiritual evolution, but at
27:08
the same time, it creates its own problems from a spiritual
27:11
point of view. So I think that there was there
27:16
was so few people that had such a strong connection with the
27:20
Lord. And I think that a lot of people
27:22
just were kind of ruling along with it.
27:24
You know, like, there was a story told here about a kid who
27:28
goes into a priest, comes to visit and there's a kid in the
27:32
house. And they say, oh, Johnny at
27:35
Father Jones is coming over. And so be nice when he comes in,
27:38
Sign in comes Father Jimmy, tell me, what do you know about what
27:42
religion? I'll tell you, Father, stand up,
27:44
sit down, stand up, sit down. Give me money, you know, because
27:48
in the Catholic Church, you stand up.
27:50
You need to stand up. You need to give you money.
27:53
You know, that's, that's that's what's happening there.
27:56
Yeah. And I've been like, one of the
27:58
things I've been trying to develop is like a constant, a
28:02
constitution for a religious movement where we
28:06
recontextualize key rituals like the communion and the
28:09
confirmation and to look at what we mean by things like
28:14
ordination and how a community could function, you know, so
28:18
that we can, we can preserve ritual because ritual and
28:22
liturgy are important. You know, they're, they're not,
28:24
they're not a substitute for God, but they are a way for a
28:27
community to articulate things, you know, and to celebrate
28:30
things. And religious liturgy is, is
28:34
important for celebrating, you know, the, the changing of the
28:37
seasons and the the working of a child into a community and
28:42
setting up a landmarks of when the child enters into the age of
28:45
moral discernment, which is communion, the age of seven or
28:48
eight. You know, we know it from your
28:49
anti book that the spirit comes that it's the child's first
28:52
communion, their first communion with God, their first communion
28:54
with moral realities. Their, their, their, their
28:57
divine compass switches on and they can tell right from wrong.
29:00
You know, it's at that age that they become more than you have
29:03
to stand up in a court of law and, uh, are able to tell the
29:06
truth. You know, you don't have the
29:08
truth of a four year old. You you need to Chinese to about
29:11
7 to age moral discernment. Then you've got your rituals for
29:14
the initiation for the pre adolescence stage and the
29:17
adolescence stage. And I think all those things are
29:19
important to celebrate and the life of the child and also the
29:23
life of the community. It's great to to bind people
29:26
together. And I think that your anti book
29:29
offers us a way to to recontextualize all that in an
29:32
incredible way that could really lift the community, you know,
29:35
and and that's one of the things that that I'm kind of fascinated
29:39
by. And like I'm interested in, in
29:42
putting you into book teachings, in kind of into conversation
29:47
with fundamental issues of our time.
29:49
One of them being how do we understand religion and
29:51
postmodern age? And what sort of kind of
29:55
political, spiritual insights can we glean from the book that
29:58
could help us lives better today and set up our institutions to
30:02
make them more accountable to become a man and more
30:05
serviceable? Like one of the things your anti
30:07
book talks about when it comes to democracy and stuff that is
30:11
the education of public opinion. In order for people to make a
30:14
good choice when it comes to voting, they need to have the
30:17
best information available to them.
30:19
But our media are all confused of people.
30:25
You know, I never hear the thing called Operation Mockingbird, a
30:29
government initiative to ensure that the only thing that was
30:33
inside in the public mind was nonsense, you know, so that way
30:37
they, they wouldn't be in a position to coordinate
30:40
themselves well enough to take effective action to advance
30:44
their particular causes. You know, and the uranium book
30:48
is it, it says that, you know, properly, you've got to educate
30:51
public opinion that that gives you a good, a good start towards
30:55
heading off in the right direction.
30:57
But in order to do that, you have to have control of the
30:59
public square, which is one of the things they talk about in
31:01
the article. You know, the, the public square
31:04
is, is so important. You know, the, and this I
31:07
remember when I first read in the uranium book about the, the,
31:10
the public magic and private magic and that overtime that led
31:16
to, to prayer and to the, to the social experience of prayer,
31:20
where everybody got together and recited a common prayer.
31:23
And that there was things that were acceptable in public that
31:26
were not acceptable that that, you know, there was things that
31:29
you could do in public, but that you couldn't do.
31:32
I'm sorry, I'm confusing myself. No, no, no, in private is the
31:37
that you could get away with in private that you can't do in
31:39
public. You know, and that had a
31:41
sanitizing effect. And we have a problem today
31:44
because our the public square, it's like our newspapers, our
31:47
radios and our TV's, they've been Co opted and people are not
31:51
getting the radar that they're supposed to get the to give the
31:54
insight into the troubles that are that are the real issues
31:58
that are going to be affecting their lives and exploring where
32:00
the real solutions are. So what's happening now is that
32:04
you've got those kind of forward thinking individuals who are
32:08
going outside the mainstream sources and trying to find
32:11
reliable journalism online. And the online journalism is
32:15
becoming the new Market Square, town square, you know, And The
32:19
thing is, it's not happening fast enough for us to get ahead
32:24
of the problem, you know, because we have an enormous
32:28
sizeable portion of society is still only sees the TV or only
32:34
sees the radio or only sees the newspaper.
32:35
That's, that's their window on the world, you know, and the,
32:40
the, as a result of that, the narratives are being constructed
32:43
for them. Their, their thoughts are being
32:46
constructed for them. And again, this brings us back
32:49
to the purpose of education. Like the purpose of education
32:52
should be not to teach you what to think, but how to think, how
32:55
to critically analyse and evaluate situations.
32:57
And with the progressive dumbing down of the education system, we
33:01
see how people struggle with this idea of independent free
33:03
thought. And it was especially clear with
33:06
the pandemic. That's the thing that astounded
33:08
me most about it was the inability to think rationally,
33:13
you know, the inability to sit down and consider a proposition
33:16
and kind of work your way through it.
33:19
Like I had often, like I've been workshops with people.
33:21
And one of the things I said that we are emotional beings
33:23
long, long, long before we're ever rational beings.
33:26
And most people never even achieve true rational
33:29
rationality. You know, they, they, they're,
33:32
they're, they're, they're thinking of that.
33:34
Your anti book says that the next age of men will involve a
33:36
quality of thinking. You know what I'm saying?
33:38
First it was a just a bare survival.
33:41
Once you've established survival, then it's for a
33:44
quality of living. And once you have a quality of
33:45
living sorted out, the next thing would be a quality of
33:48
thinking. And the pandemic taught us that
33:51
there is widespread poor thick quality thinking.
33:54
We need to be able to up our game from a, from a, a cognitive
33:58
performance point of view where we're actually capable of
34:01
independent thought and we're not governed by fear, you know,
34:04
and I think this is one of the great things with religion.
34:06
Religion allows us to banish fear.
34:08
And that's what makes us kind of courageous thinkers.
34:11
Then, you know it. We know that we can, we can face
34:14
the thing that we fear and we might be defeated, but we could
34:17
very well over cost, you know, especially with faith.
34:19
And we can create a better world that way, you know, So we're
34:23
finding all these huge challenges landing upon our door
34:26
like, you know, like the like we have to have a set up better
34:30
control of the public squares so the people can have access to
34:32
the right information. We need to have good education
34:35
so people can learn how to think, you know, how to be
34:39
critically engaged and not allow the feelings to govern them, you
34:43
know, at least at least not the negative feelings, you know, I
34:47
mean positive feelings. Fair enough.
34:49
Like, but yeah, so there's a lot of that sort of stuff that's
34:54
kind of subliminally involved in the the article that I've put
34:58
together, you know? Yeah, I want to tell people,
35:00
just let me read this one part. And this has to do with hate
35:04
speech and the reasons you know why we're against it, You write.
35:09
Isn't it peculiar that the Communists want to silence the
35:13
followers of Christ, imprison, torture and destroy the lives of
35:17
those who would dare to highlight the practices of the
35:20
corrupt and exalt the world to righteousness?
35:23
Jesus felt no need to control the narrative.
35:25
He knew the truth could not be extinguished by lies and
35:28
deception. No more than greater.
35:32
Greater than the. The lesser can be destroyed by
35:34
the no more than the greater can be destroyed by the lesser.
35:39
The substance undone by its own shadow.
35:43
I thought that was very profound, what you said there.
35:45
And it and it plays to what you're talking.
35:48
The truth shall set you free. And the opposite is when the
35:52
truth is hidden, then you are not free.
35:56
You become enslaved. Yes, you become enslaved by what
35:59
they whatever that narrative is. And we learned a great lesson
36:03
during COVID and I think you and I will find a lot of agreement.
36:06
I was astounded at how easily people would just comply with
36:13
what wearing masks outside, you know, on a hot sunny day.
36:17
And people, I remember what I was with my in laws and we were
36:20
walking along the beach in sunny South Florida.
36:23
It was the middle of August. It was hot and they're wearing
36:26
their masks. I thought, you know, I, I didn't
36:31
want to say anything, but I felt like if you're really following
36:34
the science, do you think that there's a COVID virus floating
36:38
around out here somewhere that is just waiting to get inside of
36:41
you or somebody's? Going to come up and actually.
36:44
Sneeze on you or something. You know some.
36:47
But it's the world that ultimately led me to a thing
36:49
called the the no virus scenario, which I think it was
36:54
one of the most significant things that I kind of came
36:56
across all of the whole thing. And the people would be too.
37:01
Better to look it up. It's interesting stuff, you
37:02
know? Yeah.
37:03
Like, there's an awful lot of scientists who were cut off the
37:05
air and had their careers destroyed, you know?
37:08
Yeah. I remember a wonderful lady
37:10
doctor. She used to she was an Icelandic
37:12
woman. We had the start of the pandemic
37:14
and she she was on the Radio One day and she just kind of well,
37:17
you know, that don't really tell me how we ever did it.
37:20
Do we not think that this is silly that and she just she just
37:23
wasn't even a scathing criticism was like, you know, well,
37:26
standard medicine is this is how you put such a thing to do do
37:28
this. They ruined her life and then
37:32
forget that reasonable. They ruined her life.
37:34
I think, Oh my God, you evil, evil creatures, like, how would
37:37
you do that? And the woman was like a like a
37:39
great doctor surgeon. She did her time in India and
37:43
stuff like that. You know, she used to work with
37:45
kids that had a, what they call a hair lip.
37:48
And so it's like in India at least have a difficult time.
37:50
We're trying to get the competent surgeons to, to, to
37:53
surgically manage things like that.
37:55
But so she, she got her experience over there, I think,
37:58
and she came back and she looked and talked on the radio and the
38:01
government went to town and it was just amazing.
38:03
Like, but again, it's, it's usually, it's the spectacle.
38:06
Make an absolute sure this one person and that'll make
38:10
everybody else shut up. I hope it doesn't get worse, but
38:14
something tells me it may just get worse and, and who knows who
38:19
knows when that when we'll wake up collectively and start to
38:24
realize that a small group of people really trying to gain a
38:28
lot of power. That's what I think is behind
38:30
it. And who knows whether Kalagasti
38:32
is behind it or, you know, whether the forces of Lucifer
38:35
still at play even though he's, you know, on a detention world?
38:39
Let me ask you. But we don't true that a small
38:41
group of people can make a great difference, can make a positive
38:44
difference. 12 little fishermen, 11 fishermen.
38:46
No. Well, let's say to Jesus, 12
38:48
fishermen in Galilee 2000 years ago set out to turn the world
38:51
upside down. You know, they succeeded.
38:54
Yeah. You know, they succeeded.
38:55
So against the odds. And it's miraculous and
39:00
profound. And God's grace was involved
39:02
throughout, no doubt. Like, you know, sorry, I
39:04
interrupted. You were going to say you're
39:05
going to ask me something? I just want to ask you because
39:07
we I know that it's getting late where you're at and I try.
39:10
To keep these things all evening if you want.
39:13
Well, tell me some of the what is the most of all?
39:17
There's four sections of the Urantia book, so let's go with
39:20
each one in the in the in the in the first part of the book, what
39:24
do you find most profound? What moves you the most about
39:28
the first section about the central universe and about the
39:31
father and and the family, the first family of God, the Hovo
39:34
and what what really speaks to you in that section?
39:37
I'd be curious to. Know there's a team that runs
39:40
through the whole book from the beginning to the end and it
39:43
occurs I think in the third paragraph of the first page of
39:47
the 1st paper and and it is BU perfect even as your father in
39:53
paradise is perfect. And I did AI did a a lecture
39:56
during pandemic and becoming God like it's on YouTube.
40:00
UAII think they did one of those Urania Tom things or something.
40:03
And I did a lecture on that. And that has been throughout the
40:09
whole book, from the beginning, from the first papers, all the
40:13
way down, you know. Yeah, I found that fascinating.
40:18
For me, it was, it was practically the opening note of
40:21
the book, like, you know, and then we see the life of Jesus,
40:24
the perfected life. There you go.
40:26
That's the end of it. Like, you know, this is the IT
40:28
goes forward from, from paradise and then it comes out in time
40:31
and it reaches its Senate in the life of something like Jesus,
40:35
you know, or maybe the other of ones or whatever.
40:41
That is perfect, Yeah, because you're right.
40:43
Everything stems from that. That's the mission, the mission.
40:47
And that's also the character of the universe.
40:49
Every from the living cell. I tell you just I'd never dawned
40:54
on me the the miracle of when you injure yourself and your
40:59
cells know exactly what to do to heal that.
41:03
That is the same BU perfect even as I am perfect.
41:07
It is it is the character of the living universe for things to
41:12
seek perfection, whether it's seeking a better life or trying
41:16
to invent the air conditioner so you're not hot all the time.
41:20
It's it's whatever it is, but it's it's there and it's a force
41:24
it. Is it is a force like I've I've
41:26
written about that too. I call it the will to perfection
41:29
and the the will to perfection as far as I concerned, is an
41:32
actual for real force in the universe and in the lives of
41:36
every living being down to the cell, down to the individual
41:40
cell. Even your anti book says that
41:41
that business active down to the individual cell.
41:44
Everything aspires to to be perfect and to be the best
41:48
version of it, such as it can, but only when you get set to the
41:50
human stage. It becomes a voluntary thing.
41:53
You know, you have to choose to do it.
41:55
It doesn't just happen automatically, you know, but,
42:00
but like you, when you see the, the way the, the universes
42:02
themselves kind of find their, they, they tend towards
42:06
equilibrium, towards stability. That's what they're after.
42:09
They're, they're, they're, they're slightly off center, but
42:11
they're always pulling together to try and find the, the, the
42:14
point of stability and harmony. And that's at work in our own
42:18
minds. Like, you know, we're slightly
42:19
off center, but we're trying to establish ourselves to, to, to
42:22
find who we truly and fundamentally and most perfectly
42:25
are, you know, the best version of ourselves.
42:27
And then because that's the one that can handle the stresses the
42:30
best, you know, that's that your optimally existence.
42:33
And but throughout the the like, it's hard to know where you
42:38
could begin with how many wonderful things are like, you
42:41
know, from the first papers into the second.
42:43
Like I've spent a lot of time focusing on the Jesus papers,
42:49
you know, as the years have gone by.
42:50
You know, I can't every once in a while.
42:53
Then I go into the kind of the anthropology books because
42:55
they're they're great fun. A lot of them.
42:57
You know, I love some of the stuff to say.
42:59
They're so funny. There's there's great weight in
43:01
your anti book. Like I have to say, you know, we
43:03
we laugh and sometimes when you think about the stuff to say,
43:06
like, you know, the the stuff to say about marriage and about
43:09
marriage more, it's very funny and addicted.
43:12
You remember the one where they had a there was a particular
43:15
tribe and they would always marry an order person after a
43:19
younger person. And then when the younger,
43:21
younger person, as they got older, the older person would
43:23
die and then they would be in a position to marry a younger
43:25
person. And they used to do that because
43:28
so that there wouldn't be two fools in the marriage.
43:35
I thought this was brilliant. Oh my God.
43:38
And there's so many things like that.
43:39
You know, they're talking about the like, nobody knew how they
43:41
got pregnant. They didn't connect sex with,
43:44
with their pregnancy. So the women thought that they
43:48
would, could, could get pregnant by bathing in shallow water.
43:52
So they were more obsessed about not bathing that about having
43:54
sex. Like, I wonder how am I still
43:55
getting pregnant? You know, there's all that sort
43:59
of stuff. You're like, God, that's, that's
44:01
just just so funny. It's great fun, you know, so
44:04
there's just things like that. And like one of the most
44:07
fantastic elements I thought was the the, the ghost cult and
44:10
shamanism and all that kind of stuff.
44:12
You know, you said the shamans are very expensive that were
44:14
worth every penny. And they talk about the how, how
44:18
they went from ghost fear into this idea of like, you know,
44:22
being persecuted by the ghost for all the things they didn't
44:24
do to ultimately realizing the idea that there was good and
44:27
even spirits and that ultimately their behavior solicited
44:30
responses from the spirits in a particular way.
44:33
And that eventually gave to the idea obscene and the the idea
44:36
that God was stable, reliable and moral, you know, that that
44:42
and one of the things said that man couldn't envision a change
44:46
this God until he himself had acquired some level of stability
44:49
of character, you know, until he wasn't a capricious, vicious
44:53
soul. You know, they had to to develop
44:56
some level of moral code and appreciation of of kindness and
45:00
of mercy before they could actually envision a God that
45:03
could have some kindness and mercy in it.
45:04
Like, you know, and do that whole kind of anthropological
45:08
study like you, even when it the way it looks at the history of
45:10
war, those papers is brilliant. It's fascinating.
45:13
It's so much of interest to be learned.
45:16
Like I took a section from, I think of the paper 71 where the
45:19
talk about the life on a neighbouring planet and there's
45:26
this continent, which is basically, it's almost like the
45:28
America of the continent of the planet.
45:30
You know, it's way ahead of everybody in the standard of
45:33
living and technology and all that kind of stuff.
45:35
But one of the things about it is that it it doesn't abuse this
45:40
war machine to as an aggressive, as an aggressor, you know, what
45:45
was that in a different article? Actually, I don't think I
45:47
mentioned that Nissan, you're right.
45:49
I didn't actually, but I was just writing about that recently
45:51
and in that paper to talk about how they they wouldn't they
45:56
always act in defense, but never in in, in aggressively.
46:00
Like, you know, and I felt to myself when I often look at
46:03
what's happening with the American expansionism around the
46:06
world, I think, oh man, you've kind of you've got this
46:09
spiritual test nowhere. You've got all this power and
46:11
you're abusing it. And that's going to spell a
46:14
problem for you in the future. You know, because you read as
46:16
you saw, you know, you read the, you saw the wind and you read
46:19
the wind. And I think that's, that's a
46:22
problem for America. And it's going to, it's probably
46:24
no more than the Jews losing their crown that the Americans
46:27
might well lose their crown, you know, as a result of of their
46:31
spiritual folly. Well, and we're going to pay the
46:33
price for that too, because what what follows after that is a lot
46:37
of decay. And I, I find it, I wonder the
46:41
future of Europe, will it just be an Islamic stronghold?
46:47
Will eventually the the Anglo Saxons, Will they be?
46:51
It's hard to know. But if they don't have faith and
46:54
they don't have a good, clear understanding of godly
46:57
principles, they're easily going to succumb, I think.
47:00
But you know that your anti book, it talks about that.
47:02
It does say that. I won't say it did speak One
47:05
phase of the Kingdom in the future have to do with the
47:07
planetary crisis and I think that we are at the door of that
47:11
crisis now were experiencing multiple critical factors were
47:19
being overwhelmed with foreign bodies that the borders have
47:24
been have been broken down and people are coming in from every
47:26
corner of the planet and they're unravelling social cohesion.
47:31
That's that's a massive thing. Another thing is the the undoing
47:35
of our traditional values. See, people, because people were
47:38
so ambivalent to their religion, they let go, they got really get
47:42
loose. You know, they didn't realize
47:44
how strong it was to hold the nation together and to provide
47:48
it with a bit of backbone. And like, it's it's no
47:52
coincidence that as religion has decreased in terms of its hold
47:56
in society and civilization, hedonism and insanity has
48:00
increased. You know, there's more problems
48:02
with drugs now than ever before, more problems with broken
48:04
marriages, broken homosexual abuse, human trafficking.
48:07
Oh my God, don't get me started. You know, all these terrible,
48:10
terrible things out there. And like I was writing in a
48:14
thing that recently, like, you know, that that that corrupt men
48:17
kind of prosper in a pro moral and pro righteous culture.
48:20
And as a result, in order to kind of get ahead and have to
48:23
undermine the, the sources of morality and the, the
48:27
institutions that promote righteousness, you know, so, so
48:30
that they can prosper with their plans.
48:32
And it seems to me that we are at a turning point in terms of
48:36
our religious awakening now, because we have to realize that
48:40
we were asleep at the we religiously, you know, and as a
48:43
result of that, we've been surrounded and all sides known
48:45
by enemies. And that's going to be a
48:46
problem. And it's going to be a problem
48:48
for us, and it's going to be a problem for our children.
48:50
I'll tell you this, though, Barry, there are more articles
48:52
being written now. I just read one this morning and
48:56
I read maybe one or two a week. And you'll, you know, you'll,
48:59
you'll see them. They're not, you know, on the
49:01
New York Times or anything like that, or, or, you know, the
49:04
London Times. But people are starting to
49:06
recognize that without Christianity, without the basic
49:08
tenets of Christian religious principles, the society is going
49:13
to fall. And I think some of the smarter
49:16
people in our country are starting to ring the bell.
49:19
Oh. Yeah, I mean, even Dawkins has
49:21
been like, well, I'm a cultural Christian, you know, it's like,
49:24
you know, I've been tearing. He's been tailoring Christianity
49:28
for decades. And now suddenly like
49:30
Christianity and back foot and Islam starts to spring up left
49:33
and right. And he's like, well, well, I I
49:36
don't want to replace with that. When you helped with that man,
49:40
you helped with the undoing of this thing.
49:42
You destroy the foundations of the thing.
49:45
But I suppose at the end of the day, too, you can't blame him.
49:47
Like he was like people didn't have the have have real faith,
49:53
you know, they didn't have a proper connection to their guard
49:55
and they wondered and got lost and they're now they're in the
49:58
dark woods now, you know, and they're surrounded by wolves.
50:02
But I think it's going to, it's going to create like a critical
50:05
spiritual reaction there because if it doesn't, will be
50:08
exterminated. Yeah, you know.
50:11
There's no two ways about. It and, and you know, I, I think
50:14
it's important for us to say that as you're, I'll speak for
50:18
me, not maybe for you, but it's not that I have anything
50:21
personal against Islam at all. I have issues with the way that
50:25
they subjugate their women. I have, I, I know from the
50:29
Urantia book, it teaches us that it talks a little bit about the
50:33
Blackstone. What does it mention about the
50:35
proclivity of that particular tribe?
50:37
And it was the earlier tribes of Saudi Arabia and they had a one
50:42
thing that united them was the Kabbalah stone.
50:44
You know, isn't that fascinating that they bring the but, and I
50:49
know people who are of the Islamic faith who say it's a
50:52
it's a religion of peace. There are elements of submitting
50:56
your will to Allah that I can respect for people.
51:01
What I don't like is that if you're not just the same.
51:03
I have a problem with Christians who think that if you don't
51:06
believe exactly as the Bible teaches and somehow you're not
51:10
really a Christian and you're you're you're a Pagan.
51:13
It's the same problem that the Muslims have if you're not
51:16
Islamic. The Christians are not just some
51:18
Christians are murderers, some Christians are rapists.
51:21
You know, that doesn't mean that all Christianity is bad and you
51:24
can say the same for Islam. Just because some Islamics want
51:29
to kill all Christians and all Jews doesn't mean they all want
51:32
to do that, you know, And I know that for the fact I see it every
51:34
day that I read there are Muslims that that are pro
51:40
Israel, you know, I mean genuine Arabs that are pro Israel, like,
51:43
you know, so it's not every one of them.
51:45
Absolutely not. You know, there's a soul in
51:48
there right in the Middle East is a is a really big problem
51:51
there, you know, so. They're all searching for God.
51:53
I mean, that's the, The thing is we all have God in it.
51:56
So we also have, we have erring brothers and sisters, as they
51:59
say. Well, listen, I, I am just so
52:03
thrilled that we had the time to spend together.
52:05
I I the final thought here is what do you what do you think is
52:11
the most important thing for people to know about the Urantia
52:14
book? For people who may have never
52:16
heard of it? What's the most important thing
52:18
to you that you think about this book?
52:26
The greatest truth, the only truth.
52:27
God is your Father, you know, and that has the Urantia book
52:32
opens a window on the magnificent heritage that is
52:38
there for you. You know, like it's hard to
52:42
imagine the glories of God, you know and in even the old
52:45
scripture says I have not seen even not heard nor is an
52:48
interesting the heart of man. That's what you with those who
52:50
love God and seek to do his will and even when Jesus was on earth
52:54
and he spoke to his disciples in the in in the New Testament, you
52:56
see, and I have told you over two things and you have not
52:59
believed. How much more so would you not
53:01
believe We're ready to tell you of heavenly kings.
53:03
So we then we know that when Jesus was alive that he didn't
53:06
he he restricted his bestowed experience, his revelation to
53:10
this revelation Father and not revelation heavenly things.
53:13
And to me the Uranti book is a glimpse of the heavenly glories
53:16
that await us. It is a magnificent revelation
53:19
of the life of Jesus and of the glories that await us and in our
53:24
divine adventure towards the realization of our divine
53:27
destiny and unity with God. It's a fantastic, fantastic
53:30
piece of literature and it's worth the reason if if a person
53:35
genuine, genuinely loves Jesus, then they cannot read this book
53:39
and not be changed by it for the better.
53:42
Again, thank you Barry Culligan for dropping by.
53:46
I think this was a great episode.
53:48
We covered so much and I really appreciate the insight that you
53:51
brought to the program that's going to do it for this episode
53:55
of the Urantia Radio Podcast. Of course, you know you can
53:58
reach out to me urantiabookradio@gmail.com,
54:02
urantiabookradio@gmail.com and we'll see you next time.
54:20
The the the
55:45
None, None,
57:07
None.