Latest / Tits, Wit, & Grit / Self-Advocacy and Knowing Your Worth with Amber Murayi

Transcript

Self-Advocacy and Knowing Your Worth with Amber Murayi · Tits, Wit, & Grit

• Sara Frasca: Tits Wit and Grid is a podcast created to hold honest, intelligent conversations with women who lead, build, and navigate demanding professional lives. This podcast was born from a belief that women benefit from spaces where experience is honored, perspective is shared openly, and leadership can be discussed in both depth and candor, and maybe even a little laughter. Each episode brings forth voices that will offer insight drawn from their experience, and we will all speak honestly about leadership, resilience, ambition, and personal evolution. So let's get started. Tits, wit, and grit. today we have one of our very famous, very favorite women on the podcast joining us for a great conversation. And I'm gonna let Tracy introduce her. Tracy Hill: Alright, today we are so excited to welcome Amber to Tits Wit and Grit. Amber is a strategic leader with more than a decade of experience helping organizations navigate growth, change, and transformation. Throughout her career, she's guided Fortune 500 companies through major mergers, acquisitions, and growth strategies that have reshaped industries. Today, Amber is part of Our Point Northeast team, where she helps leaders and organizations unlock their full potential through talent selection, strategic insights, leadership development, Hogan assessments, and art-based leadership workshops. She believes that when you align strategy with exceptional people and add a little creativity, you create the kind of leadership that drives lasting results. And before joining Point Northeast, Amber held executive strategy roles with the Hershey Company and Acosta Sales and Marketing. And she partnered extensively with Boston Consulting Group, leading initiatives across consumer products, retail, and growth strategies. She also holds an MBA from Northwestern University's Kellogg School of Management and a bachelor's degree in marketing and international business from Washington University in St. Louis. Today we're talking with Amber about leadership, growth, self-awareness, and what it really takes to build strong teams and organizations. We know you're gonna walk away with plenty of practical insights and maybe even a few new ways of thinking. So grab your coffee, take a walk, but settle in wherever you're listening because this conversation is packed with insight, practical wisdom, and plenty of laughs along the way. Amber, we're so excited you're here. Welcome to Tits Wit and Grit, my friend. Amber Murayi: thank you guys. I'm so excited to be here. Laura: Awesome, Amber. And for our listeners and anybody that's seeing us, we are right after the holiday weekend. So if we're all of our voices are a little lower, including mine, it just means that we've celebrated our country. So hey, you know, I know you all can relate. so as Amber Murayi: Yeah. Tracy Hill: Ha ha Laura: part of that celebration and all that, I found myself as a woman in this country pretty excited for what we've how far we've come, and we might have done a little trivia on this. But I'm also a little sad for how far we have yet to go. And well, I know we'll talk about that, but Amber, I'm gonna stick to the good stuff. What's your favorite part as we talk about kind of the tits of our show? What's your favorite part about being a woman? And since I know you have strong women in your life, if you want to talk about one or two of them that have helped shape you. Amber Murayi: Yeah. So I think one of the best things about being a woman that I felt is just complete comfort in my identity of feeling like that I am a very creative person. So I've never felt like I have to quash any bit of creativity. but then I also was raised by really strong and smart intelligent women. And so I feel like those pieces of myself that I feel like I really get to lean into, whether it's being creative, whether it's being really, I feel it. very smart and you know, bringing those ideas to the forefront and being strong and independent, that never crossed my mind that that was separate from the identity of being a woman. And I I give a lot of credit to my mom and my grandmothers for that, that that was the role model that I had for being a woman. And so I felt like those were just the core elements of my identity. And also in that I never felt like I needed to mimic a man or be masculine in when I went into work because I saw these women in my life be completely strong, independent, smart, established women being women and that I didn't need to try to be something different in order to still have those characteristics. Laura: What an amazing gift. I mean, what a Sara Frasca: Со спеша. Laura: a foundation. Like, that's fantastic. Love it. Amber Murayi: A rock solid foundation and yes, I love my mom and my grandmothers. They're just they've all been my role models. Sara Frasca: Gosh. I mean, that's pretty special. And I think about, you know, maybe you know, your parents had a pretty foundational, you're very close to them. I I know that personally. Actually, one of the connections we forgot to talk about is that Laura and I have worked with you, you know, decades ago at General Mills. So kind of fun. okay. I mean, I don't know. I guess maybe like Laura: Was it really decades? Do we have to say decades? Amber Murayi: Yeah. Sara Frasca: two months ago? I don't know. Laura: Well Sara Frasca: Yeah. It does a bit ago. Tracy Hill: Mm. Laura: yeah, a bit ago. A few leap years. Amber Murayi: It doesn't feel like time has passed. Sara Frasca: It seemed Tracy Hill: Few weird. Sara Frasca: like in in some senses it seems like it was just yesterday and in some it seems like it was a total different life ago. I mean, by the way, Amber, I think, you know, I probably speak for Laura and I both, but we're so proud of you. I mean, you know, you came right out of undergrad and worked with us and we got to watch you blossom as a leader and as a you know, a young woman in corporate America and then you just went off and we're just a badass. So we're just so proud of you. And what a joy to bring you back, you know, into the fold and to get to work together again. It's like look out world. We added Tracy to the pot and a couple other badass women. Tracy Hill: Ha ha ha Laura: Mm-hmm. Sara Frasca: I mean like look out world, right? Pretty great. Amber Murayi: I think along those lines, I've been remarkably I feel blessed because I've seen it go in lots of different ways for different people. But I throughout my career had rock solid women that I got to work for and work with. And that is a hallmark, I feel like, of so many stages of my career. And it's been Not something you can necessarily construct in all sorts of ways, but when you get the chance to choose who you work with and surround yourself with, it makes a difference. And it's I have had men that have been great mentors and structure, but I would say when I've talked to some people who haven't ever had a female boss or worked on teams, I'm like, I can count many, many times where I've been in rooms with a whole room full of women and we're supporting each other. and so that's been something throughout my career that I have not felt like an only very often. but I think that that's because I've chosen places to work and people and companies to align myself with where that wasn't a choice that I had to make. Laura: And Amber, I just wanna Sara Frasca: That's great. Laura: like we talk about it on on several podcasts we've had of the fact of women supporting women. Tracy Hill: Yeah. Laura: That sometimes there's this competitive nature that we all have, and when there's only one seat available, you're competing against other women. But to hear you say that, that women who support other women and lift people up and their growth. So I think you know, we always need to be doing that more and more and more. Because I don't think we do it enough. But I'm glad to hear in your career you've had it. Amber Murayi: Yes, I've had it and it and it's I've sought it out. And I think about even when I worked at Boston Consulting Group where there were only ten less than ten percent of female partners and it would be very easy that I could have been an only woman on teams several times. And that was just for me rarely the case. because I sought out even men who saw the value in having balanced teams and having groups of mixed gendered teams that you got better ideas out of the group. And I felt like that too. and so I sought out those teams and those are still some of the people that I work with, have talked with to this day. The men and the women were the ones that were in those mixed gendered teams. And I felt like those teams did better work. Tracy Hill: That's great. Sara Frasca: Yeah, that's really cool. Neat that Tracy Hill: Mm-hmm. Sara Frasca: you got to see different combinations too. I mean, in a consulting environment, you know, you've got different clients, different projects, different teams, and you get a better understanding rather than just having one team for a big chunk of your career. so Laura asked a little bit about, you know, the the female component. What about the wit part? I I again knowing you so well, your smile is so infectious, your laugh is infectious. So I'm just curious, like What pieces of humor and wit, how does it play a role in your world? Amber Murayi: Yeah, wit, I I like the idea of wit being levity or bringing light and brightness to a room. I like to do that. You mentioned the art aspect. I'm wearing a colorful shirt today, but I love to wear either colorful tops or c or pattern pants or just some of the ways that I bring a little joy or lightness into my day. if you see me, I usually have a patterned water bottle or just different elements of visual ways to remind myself of brightness, lightness, the beauty in the world around us and almost the humor and in the beauty in the world around us. And I find if you have those little reminders throughout your day, it helps you not take things too seriously and s and keep things in perspective. Tracy Hill: It probably helps you lead in a different way too, Amber, right? 'Cause like you're coming with such a positive attitude and atmosphere and those that are around you will inevitably, you know, morph and absorb that as well, right? Amber Murayi: Yeah. I think we're all we all receive and experience the energy around us and when people put that out, it tends to bounce back and bounce around as well as you know, heavy energy can bring things down, but some light energy can also lift things up. And I always say the best ideas don't come when people are stressed and down. The best ideas come when you feel like you can breathe and release and you can let those ideas flow. So how do you be the person that brings that energy into a room to make sure that ideas, someone who values ideas, bring that energy into a room so that ideas can flow. Tracy Hill: I love that. That's great. So kind of sticking along the same themes, Amber, we've talked about tits. We talked about wit. I would love to hear from you about, you know, grit and how that's played a story, or whether it's adversity or something along those lines that you might be able to share with us. Amber Murayi: Yeah, I originally when I heard like that word and was thinking about grit, my first response was, I don't I don't feel like I've had that much adversity because every challenge just felt like something to surmount. And the the first time and and maybe almost the last time I allowed myself to fully feel that way of adversity was my last internship. And so this was basically the year before I met Laura and Sarah. it was my last internship and there were political dynamics at play that I didn't understand. I was 21 years old, and there was a lot of misunderstanding, miscommunication about the work I was doing. And I started questioning like, am I not intelligent enough to overcome these challenges that's that are being thrown at me? why can I not understand? why the project that I did and how I did it didn't land with the group and they're saying that, you know, you missed X, Y, and Z and we wanted A, B, and C. and what I took away from that experience after reflecting on it was one, there were politics at play. Two, at the time I had I did not have anyone in my corner and I didn't know how to identify that early on. In hindsight, I could kind of see the person that I was working for was on their way out and they just didn't really care what was going on. And how important it is one to be able to stick up and advocate for yourself and not just trust that things will work out because they're quote unquote supposed to. Like they said, this is your internship. Here's how it should play out. And it didn't actually go that way. and so I cave into my first job with the mindset of one, I only want to work with people who I feel want me there. And so how do you go into a company and and think about a culture that is about supporting you. But two, be really vocal from the beginning about what your strengths are, what you're looking for, and your expectations. And when people don't meet those, still stay vocal. Tracy Hill: Mm. Amber Murayi: You're not always going to get the yeses or people meeting the expectations that you lay out for your role or for your job, but that doesn't mean that you stay silent and expect that someone's gonna just notice. You have to stay vocal. and so those it was a good learning for me. It was painful, you know. When you're young and early in your career, you feel like if you get knocked down that nothing's ever gonna work out again. but I took that perspective of that no, I actually have a lot of control in advocating for myself. And it doesn't mean that everything's always gonna work out, but it does mean that I'm not gonna stay silent and that I'm gonna keep advocating for myself. So that was the first experience which made me think that, you know, all these other experiences, I kind of always approached them in that same way. but another challenge that actually took me a little while to wrestle with and come to terms with is that I was pretty substantially underpaid in my last corporate role. And when I brought all of the statistics, so I had, because of my past experience in consulting, I had benchmark data. That I was constantly being given on my role, industries, how much the pay was, et cetera. And I brought that to the organization and was told, no, not right now. you're in line, you're in the pay band, all of these things. And then they expanded my role to be pretty much basically double the size and only increased the pay by $10,000. And then they added someone to my team that reported to me who was making more than I was. So then they bumped up. It was a man. Sara Frasca: Was it a man or a woman? Mm-hmm. Amber Murayi: So then Laura: Cool. Amber Murayi: they bumped up my pay by $5,000, which was still substantially under the benchmarks that I had brought them to say. When I decided to leave and and go out independent on my own and leave corporate America for a lot of other reasons, because at the end of the day, money was not my bottom line reason for working. It was more that I was like, hey, I knew that these benchmarks were wrong. I was constantly being courted by headhunters to do the same job at other companies and the pay was very different. but in the I guess the A few weeks before I t was gonna tell them that I was leaving, we got our performance reviews. I was top marks again. And they did a company wide benchmarking and showed you where you were. And it was kind of similar to when we were at General Mills where they would show you your pay and say what the range was. but this was a different one where it was versus the industry and their whole benchmark was that anyone should be between, I think it was something like eighty-five percent and a hundred and ten. and my benchmark. New pay after those multiple bumps was still 82%. So they were bumping me up another like 40K was basically what they told me. But I was like, it doesn't matter, I'm leaving. but it was one of those things where I did advocate for myself. I was Laura: Yeah. Amber Murayi: very vocal and was very clear about it. And then I left, and then I know who. you know, backfilled some of my roles and that person came in at a close to 200K higher than what I was at. and so I which I knew I was like, if you backfill this role in the market right now, this Laura: Yeah, yes. Amber Murayi: is what the pay range is. And so when you mention pay gap and pay disparities, I think it's staying vocal, but it's also not being afraid to leave when it's not working because there are certain things that are not I don't think that there's anything I could have done differently in Tracy Hill: Mm. Amber Murayi: that situation to surmount kind of things that were going on. but it did just wake up my eyes to the adversity in pay and being paid fairly for the work that you're doing. But that's Laura: So Amber, can I just ask and if you don't want to share that, I'm totally fine. But when when they said, Hey, good news, we're gonna pay you a lot more now. And like was your comeback, thanks, I'm leaving? Was it thanks, I'm leaving, but I told you so like two years ago? Or how did you handle all that? I gotta say, a little bit Amber Murayi: Yeah, it was hard. Laura: for me would have been like Amber Murayi: I was at that point I was already mentally leaving and So I it was more of a like, thanks, I know. Tracy Hill: Ha ha ha. Amber Murayi: Yeah, it that was more of a it was just like a thanks, I know. Sara Frasca: I feel like you're so gracious and like I don't know, patient maybe? Cause I I like probably am more in the lore camp of like anger and resentment Tracy Hill: Mm. Sara Frasca: and frustration and like how dare you? And I don't know, I'm just thinking of like the era that we live in. It's like glass door, right? Like you're reviewing people or putting it on Yelp, like this company does not treat women properly or something. I don't know. Maybe we should make a tits with like Like a glass door Tracy Hill: Recurrent. Sara Frasca: thing, so like Amber Murayi: Nemodic. Sara Frasca: exiting employees can say like, No, they weren't good to women. Amber Murayi: Yeah. Sara Frasca: Hm. Laura: Mm. Amber Murayi: I think it's it it took it did take a while. We're I'm two years out and I think that later that year when I I did learn some things about like the person who came in after me. that was hard. But at the same time, I think th you know, things happen for a reason and I I needed multiple ways to make a different decision for myself at that point in time, anyway. And part of me thinks, had they paid me appropriately, it actually would have been way harder to leave. Laura: Right. Yeah. Tracy Hill: Yeah. Yeah. Amber Murayi: and part of being able to leave was like, wow, I can change my hour structure and still make the same amount of money if I leave. and that allowed me to say, like, I can actually control. my income and I can put myself out into the market and I know what my value is and that people will pay for my experience and I can do it on my own terms. Had I been at that at a different pay range Tracy Hill: Okay. Amber Murayi: and with all of the equity and stocks, it would have been a totally different calculus in my head. And so part of me is like, okay, well that actually allowed the decision to be much easier. Laura: Yeah. Tracy Hill: You almost have Laura: Well Tracy Hill: gratitude. Laura: You know, and that's the the golden handcuffs, although sometimes I think the women's handcuffs are little silver more than gold. But regardless, your point of you know, would have been to me it was like an easy out of like, all right, well you're not gonna pay me. I don't wanna be here. Bye. So yeah. Tracy Hill: Mm. Amber Murayi: And golden handcuffs are real. I I feel like I talked to and I've I've coached people who are in those situations and yeah, it feels free to not have that. Laura: Hmm. Right. Tracy Hill: Mm-hmm. Amber, I w wanna go back to the first story that you had talked about. You had talked about finding your voice and really leveraging your voice and really leaning in. You know, for our listeners, and to the extent you're you're comfortable, can you talk a little bit about like how you learned the strength of your voice and using your voice and for lack of better word, you know, what that voice sounded like? Cause sometimes it sounds differently in here than it comes out, and just kind of walk us through Through that a little bit if you don't mind. Amber Murayi: Yeah, I think this could be part of wanting to be what I thought was a woman that's likable. Tracy Hill: Mm. Amber Murayi: was that I didn't want to be perceived as being difficult. And I'm also a woman of color, and so I wanted to not be invisible, but not be seen as difficult or entitled. And so As a young person, I was very much not going to express my expectations or when I thought something wasn't going well. And I realized more quickly that that actually can be more harmful to me and my situation than the risk of someone thinking that I sound entitled, which I've kind of come up realized at this point is if that's what someone's going to take from a woman standing up and speaking up for herself, then okay, they can say that. She's a bitch or she's entitled. I don't care. At least I have my voice. so I think that's where it was a lot of self-managing inside my head that was happening that caused me to not express how I was feeling or stand up and say, I think something's wrong. Tracy Hill: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Amber Murayi: and so learning that or and actually I think it's more learning the consequence of not doing that and that the outcome was not great, but also I didn't feel great. I would have felt better had I stood up and used my voice and the outcome was the same. And so I think that was kind of the takeaway for me is control what you can control and you can control using your voice. Tracy Hill: Mm-hmm. Love it. That's so powerful. Sara Frasca: Man, that's an awesome statement. Okay, so you talked about women who were really important to your kind of upbringing and development. Do you now try to do that for the next generation, like the pay it forward? Amber Murayi: I do. so I'm still in contact with many women at some of my former firms. and I still get referrals. One of my I would say like two skip levels below. She's at a different company and I still do coaching calls. and I've always said anyone who comes through my team that I don't, I'm not a Come to my team and you're gonna stay here forever and like I'm gonna have a fiefdom. I was always a strong believer of that I get to be have the honor of being your leader for a time period in a season in your career. And whether that season continues at this same company or another company, you can always come back and ask me questions and you can always reach out to me. and so what I've loved is throughout my career, I still have people that reach out and ask questions. I still offer to have time with any of them. And I still do that through mentorship and coaching today. And I love it. That's one of my favorite things to do. Sara Frasca: That's awesome. And I know personally you're very close to your your niece, I think it is. Yeah. we had good role models in this 'cause I would say Laura was again both of our bosses and did a good job of keeping a connection and making sure her people knew that they were her people for life. And I bet you've done the same. So it's cute. Amber Murayi: started there actually with you guys and being able Laura: Yeah. Sara Frasca: Yeah. Amber Murayi: to know families. actually this is just a funny story because it came up recently on my Facebook memories was that you had, Sarah, you had put like a well wishes on a door for me at some point and I still had a picture of it. Sara Frasca: Wow, that's fun. That's so fun. Laura: that's great. Tracy Hill: Cute. Sara Frasca: Hey everyone, quick pause from today's episode because we have something really special to share with you. Laura: E-W-I-L, Empowered Women in Law, is an intentional curated experience for women in the legal profession who are looking for more than surface level networking and packed conference schedules. Tracy Laskos Hill: We're creating space for real conversations, meaningful connection, reflection, and growth alongside incredible women who truly understand the demands of leadership in law. Sara Frasca: So join us November 4th through the 6th of 2026 at beautiful Miraville, Austin in Texas Hill Country. Laura: Yeehaw! This is going to be hosted by your Tits, Whit and Grit team. Point Northeast. Tracy Laskos Hill: And because this experience is designed for depth, seats are intentionally limited. Sara Frasca: If this sounds like your kind of room, join the interest list now at pointnortheast.com. Now, back to the episode. Amber Murayi: Like Sara Frasca: Well, now that we've got the bull ball really rolling here, let's talk about the shit moment that maybe put you on your heels. It could be personally, professionally, just as a female leader, like, shit, like that's a big deal. That's gonna change the trajectory of the way I am or the way I look at things. So can be anywhere, but I'm curious. Amber Murayi: Yeah, so for me, this was I'm gonna do the date. It was in 2023, early 2023. my youngest son, we didn't know quite what was going on with him health-wise. he was in the hospital, it was day six or seven in the hospital. He still had a feeding tube, and it was already kind of predetermined, but I had to fire someone that week while he was in the hospital. So I was like doing that from a a booth. And then we had a PR crisis that I had to manage. and I was sending emails on the phone. It was something that happened overnight, and they needed help the next day. And for me, the OSHIP moment was I don't, I haven't built a system to handle all of this. And it's Tracy Hill: Yeah. Amber Murayi: not that in a world, there's a world where you should have to handle all these things, but I didn't have release valves. Laura: Mm. Amber Murayi: Or people in place to help me manage it. And so after all of that happened with the level of stress and the not sleeping and the complete emotional deprivation, it still took another year before I made any big decisions, but it started the cascade of asking a lot of questions and finding ways to put more supports in place. I will also say my family is amazing. My dad got on a plane and came to help me. My sister came over, then my mom was there. And so, and none of my family lives like close to me. So they were all flying in. but I knew that that wasn't the structure that that was gonna be sustainable. I had to figure out a structure with work and I had to figure out a structure with home that could help me have release valves when I needed them. And so that was the first time where I felt like my tank went. to overflow because up until that point, yes, there were very stressful times, but I always could figure out a solution. That was the first time that I felt like, no, there's no, there's no solution that sits with just Amber on this. I've got to put more in place. Laura: So would you say, Amber, you kinda you built your village or you built your tribe or I mean Amber Murayi: The start was to build a village and a couple of things happened just tactfully for my son. We had to move to having a nanny versus daycare because he just couldn't he was getting too sick in daycare. So by having a nanny though, that gave us a different flexibility from a childcare perspective. We again, this was because I was working a lot full time and I was still traveling at least once a month, sometimes twice a month. we got a we had a house manager that ended up coming in and she was really great with my other son. I had talked very honestly with my husband, who was up until that point not doing a lot. extra from a house perspective and managing the family. And I was like, that has to change. Like I there is absolutely no way that I can manage our family and do all of this stuff with work. and also that summer that we did a big merger and acquisition from a company perspective. Just throw it in there. and so there was just a lot going on. so it was constructing more of a support village at first. And then it was and that was more of a blocking and tackling solution that Laura: Mm-hmm. Yep. Amber Murayi: I put in place. But then the by that December it was okay, but what actually makes me happy? Tracy Hill: Mm. Amber Murayi: And I deserve to have a spark and to have a passion. And that I could feel that. was not where I wanted it to be personally. And so by that December, I said, okay, but what would life look like? And I was working with a a coach at the time who also pushed me to do those things. and so that helped me get to a place of, okay, from a career standpoint as well, what will that Tracy Hill: Mm-hmm. Laura: Did you ever feel like, come on, Amber, just suck it up. You could handle it all. Like did you have anything you know, 'cause I think first of all whether you're a mom or not a mom, pre you know, all that on top, like yeah, did you feel like I kind of failed because I couldn't handle it all? Amber Murayi: Yeah, there was a moment Probably that summer where I was like, okay, there's gotta be a cheat code to this, right? Like, there's gotta be something I'm missing that would make this all work and make sense. Tracy Hill: Mm. Amber Murayi: And I talked to several friends and I started reflecting and I talked to some people that were a little bit older and realized if I'm not happy, then what's it all for? Like Tracy Hill: Is good. Amber Murayi: i if I keep going because the external view of it all and when I would talk to friends or to my boss, like no one felt like I was struggling. It was all A lot of it was internally held. The pressure and the feeling like this isn't working wasn't necessarily the result of my team was happy, my job was happy, my kids were doing well enough for like even the one who was sick, they were doing well. And so I would say there was an element of like, yes, this is working and this is having it all, but this feels pretty miserable. And there were days where I would say things like, today didn't suck. I was like, well, that's not what I want. Let's Laura: Right. Yeah. Sara Frasca: That's a low bar. Amber Murayi: pull a bar. And when I would say like that the day really did kind of suck, it was because I was completely depleted energy wise. It wasn't necessarily that something really bad happened. It was that my tank was below zero. And I didn't want to do that again the next day. And Sara Frasca: Mm-hmm. Amber Murayi: so by December, I realized that's my new bar. I've got to redefine what it it feels for me to be successful because I can check all these boxes and say that all of these balls are balanced when one, it doesn't feel like they're all balanced, and two, I'm at the end of the day, just completely depleted. And I think that there's a better way to live life. Laura: Yeah. Sara Frasca: I feel like when I've gotten to that point, I don't know if this is true for you, but I became really resentful of of everybody around me, my husband, my coworkers, my it's almost like what you said earlier, which was you all should be noticing that I'm holding all these balls in the air and doing the juggling and you should be noticing and helping me. And it was that switch for me of like, wait, I guess I'm my own advocate and I actually have to say, Stop, everybody. I'm not doing that or I'm, you know. Amber Murayi: Yes. And I think, Sara Frasca: Yeah. Amber Murayi: Laura, what you said earlier of the being able to say timeout, because you I at least felt like, well, I should be carrying it all somehow. Like that this ball juggling state of complete exhaustion was just like the price of of being in this role and saying that I want to be a working mom and this is just what you've got. Like this is what comes with the territory type thing. And being able to step back and say that that doesn't feel like failure to say that no, I just don't want to opt into that model anymore. and deciding that that's not failure, that's a choice. Laura: Yeah. I think that's amazing, Amber. And I think we should like stop the recording now and just let people ponder that because I think your thing of like opting in. You get to choose. You don't have to. And I think for so many times, again, I'm just gonna say as women, we feel like we have to take it on, we have to throw the garbage, we have to take care of the kid, we have to. Part of it is might be a little control freaks that we are, maybe, just gonna throw it out there. But I think opting in to do it all the time. Tracy Hill: Yep. Yeah. Breaking the cycle, right? Because a lot of us were raised that way, right? So Laura: Good. Yeah. Mm. For sure. Yeah. Tracy Hill: understanding that just because that's the narrative that we were brought up according to doesn't mean we have to follow that same narrative in our own lives and starting to cr you know, change that generational narrative so that our kids, our daughters, our sons grow up with a different thought process of of choice. Laura: For sure. For sure. Okay, Tracy Hill: Mm-hmm. Laura: I got two more shits to get to. What how about that? what's what's your no shit, Amber? Like I'm not either putting up with it. I'm not gonna stand for it. It's kinda like no shit. Amber Murayi: Challenging my intelligence. So Tracy Hill: Mm. Laura: no. Amber Murayi: when Sara Frasca: Ooh. Amber Murayi: people are condescending, that is a like no go, we've gotta stop this right now, call it out. Sara Frasca: do you find that certain people like I mean, has it been personal, professional, men, women? I'm just curious, like, who has made you feel like they were questioning your acumen or knowledge? Amber Murayi: Yeah, well it's interesting. It's it's happened more usually with men. Actually, I'll I would say exclusively all of the examples I'm now thinking of are with men. and it's usually when strategic decisions that I'm outlying don't align with whatever rationale that they've decided is the truth. and if I've already had the data or the perspective, I tend to just come back with, here's my opinion. And that's enough. Like I stopped defending because there's once someone goes into the territory of I've had someone ask, like, where did you go to school? which to me is a shutdown type of comment as well. is this is my opinion. If you want to have this discussion further, we can have it at another time. But Laura: Mm-hmm. Amber Murayi: Like I I usually shut down the like debating back and forth because at that point they're just trying to win usually a battle. And that's not really a helpful constructive Laura: Mm-hmm. Sara Frasca: It's almost a little bit of a tactic to like get their own kind of what they want to happen and it's like let me undermine the other opinions so that I can Laura: Sure. Hmm. Well, yeah. Sara Frasca: Yeah. I'm sorry you've gone through that. That's awful. Tracy Hill: Mm-hmm. Sara Frasca: Does mansplaining come to mind when we talk about this? Like Amber Murayi: Yes. Sara Frasca: that term? Laura: Yeah. Yep. Amber Murayi: Mansplaining. Yes. The and it I think that it's it's one of those ones that I find interesting because With the work that I would do in strategy, a lot of times I was around bankers and investment professionals who don't usually have a lot of context around consumer products, but they're making these decisions. And so I I'm used to not getting in what I've seen other people get into is a pissing match. And I'm just like, Tracy Hill: Mm-hmm. Amber Murayi: I don't there's no reason for me to play that game. Tracy Hill: Yeah. Amber Murayi: And I watch enough men do it with each other in those contexts that I'm just like I I choose not to play that game. Tracy Hill: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Laura: Or again, back to opting out. I'm learning opting out, in out. It's awesome. Okay, Amber, tell us about some good shit. Like professionally, as you reflect back on your career, good shit, good moments, as well as personally. Amber Murayi: So one of the the best ones I would say. when I was coming out of the haze of not finding a lot of fun, I took a wheel throwing pottery class. And it was the first time that I had really done any art. in I wanna say close to 10 years. I did a little bit of drawing, so background mostly of business, but was an art miner. And for over a decade, didn't really do any art. And so did a pottery class at the encouragement of my executive coach who said, like, when was the last time you felt really free? And I told her art. And she's like, well, I'm gonna challenge you to go take an art class. And so I found this pottery class and just like went and did it on a Saturday afternoon. and felt the biggest sense of just relief and joy at making this tiny little pot. but realizing and reconnecting with like what for me felt like release and refreshing and creativity. and it started me on a journey of doing a lot more art. And so I would say the like good shit moment for me was in 2024. I had my own art gallery. So I rented out a space, designed it all, had the lighting, advertised it, ended up getting picked up in our local newspaper. and I got to host my artwork showcased for two nights. and it was just a really strong reflection for me of this idea of redefining success and who I am. And for a long time, partly because I was an art minor, I didn't feel like I was a real artist and looked to others to define if I if my art was good enough. And so I was just never a person that would showcase my art because I was like, I wasn't an art major and I wasn't doing all of these other things. and professionally and intelligence, I was like, yes, but art am I, you know, gonna throw myself out there. and art is such an expression of your soul. So you put it out there for Laura: Mm-hmm. Amber Murayi: literally other people to enjoy, but also to judge. so it was just a really proud moment for me to to say, like, yes, world like it or not, I'm going to put this art out there and hope some people like it. And if other people don't, that's fine. But at least it's out there and it's an expression from me of putting beauty out into the world. and so that was probably one of my most proud moments of you know the last two years. Laura: That's all. Sara Frasca: And your book Tracy Hill: So Sara Frasca: is incredible too. And is it is it for sale? Not really. Okay. Okay. Well, maybe we can add the link to Amber Murayi: It I'm technically yes. It there it's there's a link on website from my house. Sara Frasca: yeah, we can add the link in our show notes, but it's called The Faces I Know, right? The Amber Murayi: Yes. Sara Frasca: Faces I Know by Amber Marai. It's beautiful and really a a strong statement of the kind of characters that you love and yeah, that love you really neat. you're a talent, dear. Amber Murayi: Thank you. Tracy Hill: Absolutely. Absolutely. You're setting up some amazing examples for the future generations. You really are. very, very cool. That's some good shit, Amber. That's Laura: Okay. Tracy Hill: some really good shit. Absolutely. So, Amber, one of the things we love to do with our guests is at the end we love to just kind of do a lightning round. So some fun filled questions. And you can share with us what comes top of mind. No judgment. We just love, love to do this. So okay with you? All right. So Amber Murayi: Okay. Tracy Hill: the first one is what is your favorite booked that really helped shape you? Amber Murayi: Favorite book? Tracy Hill: Mm-hmm. Amber Murayi: Honestly for me, it's the Bible. So that's what so my grandmother passed away earlier this year. She's ninety-five. and she had to leave school after third grade to take care of her siblings. but always had different key Bible verses that she would say over us. And so, and I remember going to Bethel Church in Leary, Georgia, with her, which is like this tiny, you know, one room church with pews. and it's just, it's been a really a grounding force of resilience for me and for our family, of you know, as hard as life gets, there are stories about how you can always overcome and you can always look for God and the beauty around you. Tracy Hill: Hmm, I love that. Laura: Hmm. Wait. Sara Frasca: That's beautiful. Tracy Hill: that is. That's really beautiful. You're definitely a bright Laura: What was your grandma's name, Amber? Tracy Hill: hmm. Amber Murayi: Rosa May. Tracy Hill: definitely a bright light in the world, my friend. So all right. What is a mantra or phrase that you live by? Or a Bible verse. Amber Murayi: it's pick your heart. Tracy Hill: Ooh. Amber Murayi: So life there things are always going to be hard and challenging, but it's in the vein of control the controllable. You can pick your hard, you can opt in to the areas and the things that you want to do. And also everything is going to be hard. So there is no pick your easy. Tracy Hill: Yeah, yeah. Amber Murayi: but because things are hard, choosing ones that can that light your fire and that you can be passionate about, that you can feel really good about fighting for, those are the ones that are worth choosing. and if you don't feel that way, don't fall into the path of thinking, well, this is just what it is. You still, there is a world where you have agency in the heart that you're living. And even when you don't, so like my son's illness, I that's not a heart that I'm picking, but how I approach it and how I advocate for him. And even when I can control the doctors or I can control the environments he he's in that he has to go through things that are really hard, what can I control about this? and so really focusing on those pieces helps me navigate even when things are hard. Tracy Hill: Hmm. That's beautiful. Thank you for that reminder. That's really good. so what's one thing then, Amber, that reliably grounds you when things get heavy? Amber Murayi: Nature. I love being Tracy Hill: Yes. Amber Murayi: able to look at the background. So my favorite color is green. And the fun fact about green is it is the most, it's has the highest variety of any color in the natural world. So fun fact. but I love even sometimes just looking around outside and seeing how many shades of green I can find. Yeah. Tracy Hill: Mm, I love it. So Sarah's backdrop is perfect for you. Sara Frasca: Cool. I know I not only have green trees around me, but I'm wearing green today. I didn't even know that was your favorite color. So Amber Murayi: You're green to green Tracy Hill: Yeah. Yeah. Amber Murayi: is my favorite color. And you can see it everywhere. All you have to do is go outside and then you can like ground yourself with it. So I don't know if that's exactly what you were asking, but that's Laura: Yeah, that's Tracy Hill: That's perfect. It's i exactly what we were asking. That's fantastic. And actually I'm wearing green and Laura, at least from here, it looks like your necklace has green on it. So I mean we Laura: Well a little Amber Murayi: You Laura: little sh tanger room, yes. Amber Murayi: can see I have Tracy Hill: Yeah. Amber Murayi: I wear these two green necklaces. This one's from my sister and that one's from my husband. But I wear green every day. Tracy Hill: I love it. I love Laura: Nothing beautiful. Tracy Hill: it. I love it. All right, so two more, my friend. What is one thing very few people know about you? Amber Murayi: Well, if you know me long enough, you'll probably figure it out, but I love music theater. It just doesn't come up in conversation as much anymore. Tracy Hill: Love that. Amber Murayi: If you're Sara Frasca: Wow. Amber Murayi: around me when like Hamilton, I listen to a lot of Hamilton this weekend. Tracy Hill: Fantastic. Sara Frasca: It's fun and very relevant on the celebration of the country's birthday. Amber Murayi: See. Yeah. Tracy Hill: Yeah. Amber Murayi: I love music theater. was in show choir, was in music theater as a high school student. Like loved to go to the local high schools productions. Love it all. Tracy Hill: That's really great. Hamilton's a favorite in our household too. So yeah, that's great. That's great. All right, last one, my friend. What is your happy hour drink of choice? Amber Murayi: Ooh, sparkling rose. Tracy Hill: Ooh. Do you have a favorite brand Amber Murayi: Especially summer. Tracy Hill: or? Amber Murayi: No, I just go with whatever. Usually restaurants only have one, so it's whatever they have. But especially it's summer. Well, because Tracy Hill: Got it. Yeah I was. Sara Frasca: with a pretty quick answer too. Amber Murayi: it's summer, like sparkling rose. It's not really in the winter I don't get it as much, but Tracy Hill: Yeah. Amber Murayi: in the summer I'm like, if they've got a sparkling rose, sold. Tracy Hill: your jam. Laura: Yeah. Tracy Hill: Good to Laura: Cool. Tracy Hill: know. Love it. We're gonna have to find some. Yes. Amber Murayi: Yes. it's it's got like the pink color and works in a glass. It just it screams summer to me. Tracy Hill: That's great. Laura: Hm, for sure. For sure. Great. Tracy Hill: That's so fun. Amber, it's been fun sharing time with you. Amber Murayi: Yes, this has been awesome. It's been great to reflect on so many things. Tits, wit, and grit. it's just it's such a fun way of celebrating being a woman and also acknowledging, you know, the celebratory aspects and the challenges and the just the bits about navigating it all. Laura: Mm-hmm. Amber Murayi: and so I had a lot of fun. Thank you guys for having me. Sara Frasca: Thank you for being on. Laura: Thank you. Sara Frasca: That's it for today's episode of Tits, Wit and Grit, where bold women, big ideas, and a little bit of fearless attitude collide. Tracy Laskos: If today's conversation sparked something for you, share it with someone who needs it and make sure you're subscribed so you don't miss what's coming next. Laura Raether: Remember, show up with confidence, trust your wit, and never underestimate the power of grit. See you next time.