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REWIND: The 2004 Draft · Pittsburgh Sports Memories

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: Hello, and welcome to another episode of Pittsburgh Sports Memories.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_01: As usual, I'm your co-host, Steve Wirt, and I'm with Alrighty, and on today's episode, we're going to be reviewing the 2004 draft.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_01: Do you remember where you were in 2004, Tim?
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I do.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_02: I was I was uh I was about three or four weeks away from getting married.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_02: So I remember that that spring very well.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_01: Ah, well, I guess it would be memorable.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: I don't remember.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_01: I remember 2005, more than 2004, but I don't know, I was working and I'd been married.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_01: How long had I been married?
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_01: Three years, three years, four years, 2001.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: Three, three, yeah, three.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_01: So I was a couple years ahead of you there.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: But um, so what was happening besides me and Tim's personal life?
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, the Steelers were uh uh gonna select a uh draft pick.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_01: And um, as we know and we've seen over the years, sometimes these draft picks can be like tricky things, and you know, sometimes they work out like you know this one did, and sometimes you get Gabe Rivera, or uh I'm trying to think of another, who's another Jermaine Stevens, another another bust, but um but sometimes you get a James Connor or you know, fingers crossed, maybe Kenny Pickett, right?
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know, I don't know, you know, Cam Hayward, there's another good draft pick.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: So this is actually very influential, and it involves a lot more pieces than just the Steelers, and it would uh affect the fortunes of three different players and actually probably three or four different franchises for the next decade, I would guess to say.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: So, um, so setting up some background, how did we get here in 2004?
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so 2003, as we always do, we got to look back at least one season.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_01: The Steelers had a six and ten season, and believe it or not, as of what is it, 2022, this is the last losing season today.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_01: Can you believe that, Tim?
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's the last time they've had a losing record.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_01: Hard to believe.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_01: So that's through two coaches.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_01: They have not had a losing record under Cower since then, and although Cower would only be like what, a coach for three more seasons after that, but still.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_01: And of course, Mike Tomlin, who's been there for a while now.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so what was going on?
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_01: The Q the QBs that they had on the roster that season were uh Tommy Maddox, Charlie Batch, and Brian St.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_01: Pierre, the immortal Brian St.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_01: Pierre.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_01: So uh the running backs were Jerome Bettis and Amos Zaraway.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, that team, even with a six and ten record, did have three pro bowlers, Alan Fanica, Heinz Ward, and Casey Hampton, who I think Casey Hampton is one of the more underrated players, at least outside of Pittsburgh.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like people, you know, worship like that one guy.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, is it Vince Willefork?
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_01: I think he's way better than Vince Willefork ever was, but hey, that's just me.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, the defense did have Jason Gilden, but that was his last season with the team.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, that team did not win back-to-back games all year.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Maddox threw 18 touchdowns, but um, that's the good news.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, the bad news was that he threw 17 interceptions, and I didn't even include he had probably had a fair amount of fumbles, I would imagine.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_01: So he he had kind of been like, you know, I think we said before Tommy turnover there a little bit.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um Bettis, um, he only played in 10 games, and he only had 800 yards rushing, so that averages out to what, 80 yards a game.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_01: So that's really very ineffective at best.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, the bigger part was the defense was middle of the pack at 15th.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_01: They're 15th ranked, so a very mediocre defense.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_01: And the offense was towards the bottom of the middle at 19th.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_01: So I mean the defense really wasn't all that great.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_01: I remember the defense not being clutch too.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_01: Like, they gave up a lot of like late game like scores and stuff.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_01: Like they just they just couldn't make a play when they needed to.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_02: Well, th that that kind of carried over from the previous so I not to go back two seasons, but yeah, you know, we we did an episode way back when, I think it was our very first episode, on the on the 2002, the Tommy Maddox season, where where Cordell kind of got himself benched, and Tommy Maddox's journeyman quarterback came out of nowhere and he started you know heaving touchdowns and and throwing for 400 yards a game, and and then and all of a sudden the Steelers were scoring 30 points a game, but the defense stunk that in 2002.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_02: They they couldn't stop the pass and they were giving up, they were getting gouged like crazy.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_02: And in 2003, it's like they they weren't necessarily getting gouged like they were in 2002.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_02: They kind of leveled off to like being like you said, kind of like mediocre.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_02: Like they were they it wasn't their complete Achilles hill, but they stunned, like they weren't good.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_02: They could they certainly couldn't you know, do it, they certainly couldn't win them games.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_02: And and when you didn't have Maddox throwing for these huge amounts of yardage and throwing interceptions, all of a sudden, you know, now you had no real path to victory.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and too, remember that was Paulo Malo's rookie year, I believe.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_01: And he I I didn't look up how many games he played, but they still had like the Brent Alexanders of the world playing, and he really was not even.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, he was I I mean he was kind of mediocre on a good day, and I think that was part of the playmaking is like they had Farrier, they had Hampton, I mean they still had Joey Porter, but they just didn't have that other they needed Paul Molo, just shows how good Palomolo really was.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_01: Because um, yeah, the next season they're I think their defense jumped up the first in the league.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_01: So right, and that was his rookie year, so he's safety sometimes, you know, young player, especially at that position, takes a minute to figure it out.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_01: So we're gonna go over some stuff that happened in this draft.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_01: So it all all that to say that's how the Steelers ended up in the spring.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_01: Would that be the spring of 2004, correct?
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yeah.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_01: So that they end up with the 11th pick in the draft, and that's six and ten, so that's what it took to get the 11th pick.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_01: And they that's what I think that's I didn't look that up.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I think that's their highest pick they've had in a while.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_01: Without trading up, I guess.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_01: I don't I don't know where they uh do you know where they picked Devin Bush?
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_01: I don't remember.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_01: He was 10th, so so but they had to trade up, they had to trade up, right?
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_02: It was it was I mean, like you said, it was their last losing season.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_02: So definitely they haven't had a higher natural pick than that since then.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_02: And I think Cower um trying to remember Cowers teams, I I think he had uh a 6-10 team in '99.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_02: So when when they or maybe that was five and eleven.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_02: I I think when they drafted Plexco Burris, I think that was eighth.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_02: So that that was probably the only Cower team that drafted higher.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_02: But you're right, it was unusual for them to draft that high.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_02: And Steve, do you remember kind of the some of the like the series of events that um that kind of shook out for them to get that 11th pick?
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_02: There were some things that happened at the end of the season.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_01: I remember uh Chris Hope throwing a a touchdown that and they lost they lost to Baltimore.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_01: I actually watched that game with you and Dave, I think.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_01: Not Chris, was it Chris Hope?
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_01: Or no, it was Josh Miller.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_02: It was Josh Miller throwing the Chris Hope, yeah.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_01: And and like that was Baltimore went all out the beat-uts in a game that didn't matter, and they ended up like playing like really bad the next week.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_02: So they so Baltimore had clinched the division.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_02: So this is the last game of the season at Baltimore, and the Steelers are 6-9 at this point.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_02: And uh, and like you said, both yeah, Bolt Baltimore has a wildcard game the next week against Tennessee, and there's questions about you know, are they gonna just rest all the starters?
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_02: However, the their running back, Jamal Lewis, had um had close to 2,000 yards, and he had a chance to break Eric Dickerson's record, all-time single season rushing record.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_02: So they were trying to get Jamal Lewis the rushing record, and it was a terrible game.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_02: It was 10-10 at the end of regulation.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_02: And and and you were right, Steve, the only touchdown that the Steelers had was Josh Miller, the punter, on a fake punt, throwing an 81-yard touchdown pass to Chris Hope.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_02: And the Ravens uh got the ball in overtime and kicked a 47-yard field goal to win.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_02: And and had the Steelers won that game, I mean that was an overtime.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_02: So had the Steelers won that game in overtime, you know, they they draft way lower than that.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_02: And and I you know, I don't know if you're gonna talk about the other teams that wanted quarterbacks, but one of the other teams that wanted a quarterback would have ended up drafting in front of them.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_02: So that was an interesting series of events that happened there.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_02: And then there was another game that same day, the last game of the season, where Arizona shocked Minnesota on a last second touchdown.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_02: Thrown by Josh McCown, ironically, who I think I don't think he's still playing, but he was still playing as well.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_01: I think he retired last year, yeah.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_01: 15 minutes ago.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_01: And uh I remember that because that put Green Bay in the playoffs, didn't it?
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_02: It did.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_02: And it it it I think it dropped Arizona down to the like the number three pick.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_02: I think they might have vaulted over the Chargers.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_02: So there was a whole bunch of stuff that happened.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_02: It kind of had to happen the right way for the Steelers to end up where they were.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_02: And and you never think about that at the time because hey It's the 11th pick.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_01: It's the 11th pick too.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_02: How often is like 11th pick like that influential of a if that season would have ended and the Steelers would have won that last game and people would be like, oh, now they have the 15th pick instead of the 11th, we just would have shrugged and be like, okay, fine.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_02: But it turns out being it I mean that it turns out being something that literally changes the franchise, losing that stupid game to Baltimore.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_02: So thanks, Ravens.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks, Brian Billick.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_01: So uh where do we want to begin here?
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um I gotta just have some talks and we can go topics we can go over.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so the first one is like, remember we did like that, you know, what if?
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_01: And we kind of got into that right there.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what if this sequence of events happens?
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: And it's very like weird what happens.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_01: So, what happens if Eli Manning and Phillip Rivers don't get traded?
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_01: So, in our alternate universe, we'll explore this.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_01: So, this is like, you know, or yeah, we'll start with that.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_01: So, Eli Manning, he got traded from San Diego to the New York Giants, and Phillips raided.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_01: This is what really happened.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_01: Phillip Rivers traded from the Giants to San Diego.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_01: So, like, it's kind of a weird, they're not allowed.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_01: So that's kind of like what set up us getting then.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_01: And that was a big re big thing because Eli Manning didn't want to go to San Diego because I guess he saw Drew Brees and Ryan Leaf, and the Chargers weren't like they became like a better organization after that, even though now they're in LA.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_01: But they they just like their ownership has always been like I think Spano still owns them, and he's always been kind of a little bit goofball.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: So there was talk that like Eli might go the way of John Elway and like just hold out like he did in 1983.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_01: And so he's not gonna, he's like, I'm not playing for you.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: So what happened was the Chargers drafted Eli and they trade him to the Giants, and then the Giants drafted Phillip Rivers, and this is how Ben ends up falling to the Steelers.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_01: And now, you know, it's funny if you watch that, like the NFL films has like a path to the draft.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_01: Like if you watch Lee Steinberg, like Ben's agent, he gets really pissed when that trade happens because they thought, you know, Ben would have been going now.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_01: Ernie Accorzy, who I think is lying, like, because he if he admitted to draft to to just drafting Ryan Leif to trade him to the Chargers, that would have been against league rules because you can't draft a player for another team.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_01: And so I guess I think that's why he always says, Oh, we're gonna draft Rothelsberger.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: Rothelsberger over Ryan Leaf.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: So I I don't know if that's true or not, but like it's just funny.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_01: Lee Steinberg was obviously Ben's agent, was getting mad because Ben not going at fourth in the draft obviously cost him like how many millions of dollars in commissions when Ben only went 11th because he got paid less money.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_01: So Lee Steinberg was definitely not upset because he you know liked Ben.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_01: It was because he just could see the dollar signs ticking away from himself.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, yeah, Ernie, of course, he was the general manager of the Giants, and and it's it's it's i ironic because he was the general manager of the Colts whenever they drafted John Elway.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_02: So um he was he was around for both of those incidents.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_02: And this time he was on the other end of it.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_02: You know, he was on instead of being on the team that the guy didn't want to play for, he was on the team that the guy did want to play for.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_02: And and that's what you're right, he sticks to that story.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_02: He says, hey, if the Chargers weren't gonna do a deal for that pick, we were just gonna draft Rothasburger because they did not want Philip Rivers.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_02: Uh what he says, I don't know how true that was.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_02: Sure, sure.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_02: And we'll never we'll never know that, like I mean, he can say whatever he wants at this point, but the story is that the Giants either wanted Manning or Rothasburger.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_02: They so they weren't gonna draft Rivers and just move on.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_02: They were gonna draft Rothasburger, and then Rivers would have fallen to who knows where at that point.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_02: So um, but they did get a deal done.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't I don't know.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, that Eli, that was a lot, his dad was involved in a lot of that.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_02: Archie.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that yeah, if you watch those interviews, the interviews I read.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_01: Now, I don't know if it was Eli just going back or what he says it was all his decision, and that his dad wasn't happy about it, that Archie wasn't happy about it, but Archie took the heat for him because he was like, oh, it's a 23-year-old kid and he just wanted to take the heat for him.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_01: Now, I always thought it wasn't the dumbest move in the world because I think especially Archie, I could see him saying that it's like because Archie Manning probably would have if Archie Manning plays for the Steelers and not the crap teams like who'd he play for, New Orleans and then Houston when they weren't very good after they had been good.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_01: Like if he plays for like the Steelers or like the 49ers or like not the 49ers in the 70s, but who else?
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_01: Dallas or somebody like that, like he probably has a Super Bowl ring.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_01: So I I I could see like our that's why I always thought it always kind of rung true to me that Archie Manning might have said something.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_01: Now, Eli Manning says that isn't true.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know why Eli Manning would have a reason to you know not be telling the truth there since and he said that after he was retired, and it was on like a Giants podcast.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_01: We'll have a link to it.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_01: So I mean, there is a lot of kind of like he said she said, or I guess there's no she's in this, so he said he said well, yeah, GM and player said I mean it's just kind of weird that like Eli Manning, like it kind of makes you like I don't know.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes I can see like like how the Mannings can be unlikable.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like first Peyton Manning's like, I'm staying in school.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's a big choice for you, Peyton, because like if you get hurt, you're gonna make like millions of dollars selling cars in Nashville for the rest of your life, it's not or Knoxville or whatever.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_01: You're not gonna be hurting for money.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_01: It's like meanwhile, all the other players that you know don't have that luxury, and then Eli pulls this.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_01: Like, how many other players could pull this?
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_01: Like, like you always hear that complaint about the draft.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, what other business in the world where you don't get to choose where you work?
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I don't know.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't think you can like once you work at like one franchise restaurant, you can't you know pick to work at another one, they just kind of tell you where to go.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_02: I mean going back to your going back to your like what-ifs, I mean, what if RT Manning played for he not even the Cowboys?
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_02: What if he played for like the Houston Oilers?
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_02: Like one of those teams that was when they were good, yeah.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_01: Like instead of um, who was it, Pastorini, it was him.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_02: Right, right.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_02: You know, like like maybe he doesn't win a Super Bowl, but maybe he he also doesn't have the experience of having his career wasted on a crap franchise.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_02: And that's what happened to R.T.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_02: Manning.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_02: His career.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_02: Jack Ham, if you if you ever listen to Jack Hamm, he he always says that.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_02: He says R.T.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_02: Manning was one of the best quarterbacks in the league, but he played for New Orleans, which was just New Orleans went something like 20 their first 20 years without having a winning season, something like that.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, like literally.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_02: So the uh they were like Pittsburgh Pirates level bad.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_02: And and R.G.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_02: Manning just wasted his whole career there.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_02: So having that experience, he doesn't want the same thing for his son, and that's what drives all this.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_02: And maybe if he doesn't have that experience, you know, then Eli goes to the to the Chargers.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_02: You know, and maybe the Giants do draft Ben.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_02: And and going back to the Cardinals, I I I think that can't be overlooked either because that was a Hail Mary.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_02: That was I mean, it wasn't really it was basically a Hail Mary.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_01: It's not not a hail hail mary.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't like he threw it from the 50.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_01: He was inside the 40 when he threw it.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_01: And it was definitely the corner of the end zone.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_01: He and it wasn't like a floater either.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_01: It he threw a threw a line drive there.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_02: I mean so so what happened was the Vikings were winning, the Cardinals had one last play, Josh McCown throws his pass in the side of the end zone, which wouldn't be a catch today because the guy had one foot, uh, one foot up and one foot out of bounds.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_02: But back then the role was if you got pushed out of bounds, I think that's right.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_02: Now today that wouldn't matter.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_02: Today that's not a catch.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_02: Back then that was a catch, and that on the very last play of the game of the season beats the Vikings, which, like you said, Steve, knocks them out of the playoffs.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_02: But if that pass isn't complete, the Cardinals get their number one pick.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_02: And I I I don't know, would they have drafted Eli Manning?
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_02: I I I'm thinking they would have.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_02: I mean they had Josh McCown.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_02: So they probably would have drafted Eli Manning.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_02: Well, yeah, the Cardinals end up with a third pick in the draft.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_02: So the Chargers would have been two, they could have gotten Rivers, and then the Giants would have been fourth, and they could have gotten Ben.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, that's I think that's probably what happens if that pass falls incomplete.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and and and the Raiders ended up being two in real life.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_01: And who did the Cardinals draft with that third pick that year?
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_01: Some receiver that wasn't any good.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know whatever happened to him.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_01: He didn't even win the Heisman.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, he wasn't even as good as uh Jason White.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, he wasn't even good at the Jason White.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_01: Well it wasn't even drafted in this draft.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_02: Well, if you're if if you really want to follow the butterfly effect, Steve, I mean that pass being complete almost lost the Steelers the Super Bowl.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_02: Because I mean, literally, right?
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, follow that all the way through.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_02: That pass being complete leads in leads them to draft Larry Fitzgerald, which again almost beats I mean, the Steelers were 30 seconds away from losing that Super Bowl really because of Larry Fitzgerald.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, I mean, man, so many, so many interesting like things that could have happened that could have went different ways.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_01: Another team that I I know we talked about the Cardinals.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_01: Why didn't the Browns draft him?
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like I looked at this too.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like the Browns ended up drafting Kellen Winslow, and I realized like Butch Davis, the Miami thing, that was his guy in college.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_01: But like here was their quarterbacks.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: I looked up who are their quarterbacks.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_01: Coley, Kelly Holcomb, who was like maybe mediocre.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_01: He was like Tommy Maddox at best.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Tim Couch, who was a complete bust, Nate Hybel and Josh Booty.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_01: Have you ever heard of either of those?
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_01: Never.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_01: So two like obviously just you know, throwaway guys, not throw, but just backups at best, and one bust and one guy that probably is just going to be a backup.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_01: And they they literally drafted Kellen Winslow, who I think he made a couple Pro Bowls here and there, but like if they would have had like Ben, they who knows what would have happened there.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_01: Or maybe they archie Manny.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: He pulls an Archie Manning and just wastes his career in Cleveland.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: But and I think Ben wanted to go to because that I mean he's from Ohio.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, Finley, I don't know.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_01: That's kind of up north, right?
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so he might have, you know, he might have liked Cleveland.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: And he has more wins in Cleveland than most of the quarterbacks since two thousand four.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_01: So so go figure.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, like we said, one wait, hang on.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_02: I I just wanted to answer your question of why the the Browns didn't draft Ben.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_02: Um, there's a very good reason, actually.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_02: Uh it's because they're the Cleveland Browns.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: a feeling that was going to be the answer.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_02: That's I mean that's the reason.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_02: And and and Kellen Winslow, I've I've I somewhere about the colour.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_01: He wasn't a bad he wasn't a bad player, but I don't know like let me look at his pick again.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_01: That he would have that year, he was the sixth pick in the draft.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like I talk about another team that missed out was Detroit.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_01: Roy Williams.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_01: Come on.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_01: Roy Williams over Benroit's quarterback that year Joey Harrington or yeah but they had just drafted him like two years ago.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_02: I mean I I think Cleveland it was more egregious because I I guess they were still trying to bank on Tim Calch because that was their franchise that was four years in five years old.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_01: That's what I'm saying.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_02: I mean if he hasn't done it by now you know Joey Harrington I can understand because I think they drafted him two years earlier and you're you're you know that's that's you know two years later is hard to justify another first round pick but the Browns just and and Callan Winslow what a him and his dad both I can't stand.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_02: And and you know he just he was so um he had all this controversies he like he did he was doing motorcycle stunts I remember he got hurt.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_02: That's I think that's how he ended his career he um got in trouble because he referred to himself as a soldier and people got really offended by that.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_02: He had to like apologize for that.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_02: You know and and so just all that kind of stuff.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_02: He just you know his his dad wouldn't didn't want him to uh go to college if if there was a white coach.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_02: I mean stuff like that was just he he just you know i i it it he and the Browns deserve each other and and again that's why the Browns are and have been the Browns and and man I I won't even get into how much I I really hope they they fail at this Deshaun Watson thing.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_02: But but that's why they didn't draft Ben because they're the Browns and they they just when the time comes to make the right decision they pretty pretty good chance they will not do it.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_00: He waits he throws the pass and it's intercepted with the 40 35 30 Steelers vs Ravens is the best rivalry in all of Pro Sports and now that series has been chronicled in Pittsburgh vs Baltimore the unofficial history an all-new book from the Pittsburgh Sports Memories podcast relive all the fierce battles and exciting moments from this amazing rivalry.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_00: There were legendary plays like Troy Polomalu's Pick Six and the Immaculate Extension and there were crazy incidents like Joey Porter chasing Ray Lewis into the parking lot or the Ravens putting a bounty on Heinz Ward.
• 24:40
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• 24:49
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• 25:04
  SPEAKER_01: Uh well, as much as we love ripping on Cleveland, I guess we'll have to move on a little bit.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_01: So and if things would have like stayed the way they were let's like we said Eli Manning goes to San Diego right so Eli Manning decides okay I'm gonna just play for San Diego.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_01: They're the team that drafted me I'm okay with that I like the weather out here.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_01: I got Danian Tomlinson to hand the ball off to I got Antonio Gates.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe things won't be so bad right so the Giants would have drafted Ben according to Ernie Accorzy.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_01: So we'll take him as his word right so do the Phil does Phillip Rivers get drafted by the Steelers that's a great question.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_02: So that so at the time the reason that everybody not everybody the reason that people think that is because he went to NC State and Bill Cower is an NC State guy.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_01: But he Bill as we well I guess we're jumping ahead remember uh Bill Cower wanted somebody else he wanted Sean Andrews.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_01: Right right and Rudy had to step in yeah so yeah I'm sure you'll get to that but I think the I think the thought process there is okay if they were going to draft a quarterback and and Rivers is the guy you know again Cower has that NC state connection I don't again nobody really knows what their draft board looked like and who they had ranked where so you know maybe they had Rivers above Ben like everybody else did this would be great if we could have got uh what's his name the guy Kevin Colbert who just retired I wonder I mean now that he's retired he isn't you know maybe talk about this honestly like would you have on because yeah Colbert was in charge yeah he was the would you have honestly drafted Phillip Rivers if he was available you know because I mean Cower wanted Sean Andrews we'll get into that I mean how many so once again the fall is so Ben's now in New York how many Super Bowls does Ben win in New York and does he fit in with Tom Coughlin like the Colonel up there?
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not I'm not sure how that works out for Ben and Tom Coughlin.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_02: That's a that's another great question because Tom Coughlin was a very different kind of coach.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_01: Also does com does Tom Coughlin like Ben improvise because that's really what made Ben great especially I mean do they try and coach that out of them yeah right right yeah that's that's a very good what if too um and then the Chargers my goodness like what happens to the Chargers well that's why I said is he does Eli just languish away in San Diego like his dad did in New Orleans but like I said he had Ladanian Tomlinson and Gates I mean so like they had two pretty good offensive players and you know they ended up hit having a pretty good team I do they get a do they at least win one Super Bowl there somewhere along the way good question.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_02: A really good question.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know I what what if you really want to go what if Steve what if San Diego just doesn't draft a quarterback and sticks with this guy they have named Drew Brees who becomes the NFL's all time passing leader.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_02: I mean what if they do that what if they draft Fitzgerald right or or somebody else right what if they draft Larry Fitzgerald now you have Drew Brees throwing to Larry Fitzgerald for the next 10 years.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_01: Who is the second pick Robert Gallery who ended up he was like he was a bust but he was a mini I would say he was a mini bust because once he moved the guard from tackle he was really good he made the Pro Bowl guard.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_01: So like once again I think that's just like he's kind of the Devin Bush situation.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_01: Like if Devin Bush wasn't or not and the other guy more Terrell Edmonds like if Terrell Edmonds isn't drafting the first round I'd be like oh okay he's a third round pick okay same thing with Robert Callory if he's a little later down the board I think people don't you know if he's where Sean Andrews the guy Bill Cower like everybody's like okay you know and that that's like Bill Cower like that's who he wanted to draft was Sean Andrews who was an all-American tackle from Arkansas and he ended up when the Steelers took Ben with the 11th pick and thank God we did um he he was drafted 16th overall by Philly in Philadelphia had a six year career made two Pro Bowls and the Philadelphia Eagles put him on their 75th anniversary team so I mean let's say Bill Cower does get his way Dan Rooney decides not to interject and they take Sean Andrews I mean someone else is going to get so that means Ben Lee Steinberg's really pissed off now he's really seen the dollar signs go out the window I mean I I think I looked at the draft I didn't look I mean I know where he goes next team does the Jets had would who pick Jonathan Vilma no not the jets because they had they had drafted Pennington the next the team that drafts him is the Bills because the Bills did draft a quarterback not not a thirst Lawsman yeah right so so the Bills the so the Jets had the number 12 pick the Bills had the number 13 pick.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_02: The Bills didn't draft a quarterback there because Lossman was too high but they also they had two picks.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_02: So they drafted Lossman later in the first round yeah so if Ben falls to 13 I mean if Buffalo's taking a quarterback in the first round that that's who that's where Ben goes he goes to Buffalo I think that's guaranteed.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_01: And and again if well maybe maybe they had a pretty good team that one year in 2004 the next year yeah when we beat them with our backups.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah they still had Bledsoe they still had Bledsoe.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah Bledsoe was at the end of his career at that point I think that they yeah Ben doesn't come in and start for them he wasn't going to start for us either which I'm sure you'll probably get to but you know he he he um that's where he goes he goes to Buffalo and if we win that overtime overtime coin toss and we kick a field goal to beat Baltimore in that last game of the season then we're behind Buffalo.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_02: Because Buffalo Buffalo finished six and ten.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_01: Same record as us so I don't know how they settle that there's probably some sort of tiebreakers or they go to the old trusty coin flip tiebreaker.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_02: But if we finish seven and nine then we're definitely behind them.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_02: Like there's no coin flip at that point.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah and so then the Bills end up with Rothlessberger.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_02: I I I I I I mean I don't see any other way around that like like Rothlessberger definitely goes to Buffalo at that point.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_02: If they were going to draft JP Lossman who was a who was a a reek as it were then they would have they were going to draft Ben.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_02: They wanted a quarterback so that's where he goes if we either we win that game against Baltimore or if the Steelers take Andrews.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_01: And Andrews was a a a really decent offensive lineman like to your point two Pro Bowls and 75th anniversary he was a very good offensive lineman but a quarterback doesn't win you two Super Bowls sorry no no yeah and I tell you what else is I doubt the Steelers in 2004 go 15 and one with that I mean that team was pretty good but they probably like maybe they have another slack off six and ten year maybe it just doesn't come together like you know and so even at let's say they have an eight and eight like they improve the defense is so good they win like two or three more games that I don't know where that would have put them in the draft but I bet the next year guess who fell to number like 24 or 21st in the draft.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah Aaron Rodgers.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_01: So Aaron Rodgers on the you know so they yeah so the ultimate ripple effect Aaron Rodgers is now a Pittsburgh Steeler and they definitely win a Super Bowl with that guy and that team yeah they're winning the Super Bowl well that that 2004 team I don't think would have finished eight and eight because remember what happens you know the Steelers Well they would have been fresh out of quarterbacks we would have been playing yeah well they won they beat Buffalo with Brian St.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_02: Pierre set up but again that that we week two onward you know and I I can't remember when Maddox came back but for the for the first four or five weeks after that it that would have been Brian St.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_02: Pierre so that would have been no they would not have finished eight and eight I think they would have been in six and ten or or four and twelve or something.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_02: Not with that defense if that defense plays even half as well okay that's that's fair but but but like you said definitely somewhere you know somewhere near that number 11 spot again the next year and then like you said Aaron Rodgers falls so boy that's that's an interesting um thing to think about like how the how the history would have played out differently and then you would have had Buffalo as a as a contender during that era because they would have had a quarterback.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah yeah instead of being absolutely horrible for years and years.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_01: And they had do they have Eric Molds and they had that running back that was pretty decent too.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah thank god everything that dull didn't happen huh?
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_01: So getting back to reality instead of alternate reality uh uh let's look at the uh I I just wanted to do the stats of the three quarterbacks who who wore it best I guess or who had the best career I guess would be more well Channel inner Joan Rivers or I don't know Steve Sable at this point.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_01: So I'll just uh quick quarter a quick uh stats comparison Philip Rivers and Philip Rivers is a decent person by the way I didn't get I didn't really go over that we kind of skipped over that but like I just wanted to say that like I know we like yeah sometimes like oh Philip Rivers went to the Super Bowl or this and that he's like really he's like a devout Catholic he's a good person.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_01: I know he has like 20 million kids so like maybe like just to go back if Philip Rivers does end up on the Steelers he probably we don't have all the scandals like that we had when we had that Ben had it early in his career.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like Philip Rivers isn't riding his motorcycle in wrecking he isn't getting accused of all this off the field stuff.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_01: Phyller Rivers is like going to church and raising his you know gaggle of children so yeah good for him he he's a genuine he genuinely seems like a devout person and a a very well you know whatever you want to say so yeah I I agree it it's annoying that he is like him and Andy Dalton both those are two guys I always wanted to hate and they're both actually like really decent human beings so hard hard to hate them uh but uh you know I I think I think Rivers the only thing that the only thing that um used to really annoy me about him was he would he would just kind of chirp a lot he does he does talk like if you see him mocked mic mocked mic'd up he like really like talks some trash it's not like I don't I don't hear him swear very much but he just like oh yeah we did that or we're we got you on that post pattern.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's like not even like anything too personal just weird stuff.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_01: But on the Phillip Rivers stats uh enough about his personal life uh Phillip Rivers uh touchdowns he had 421 in his career with 209 interceptions now he did have 29 comebacks and 35 game winning drives so that's Phillip Rivers and San Diego with some San Diego teams that probably weren't that great quite honestly uh Eli Manning uh not as many touchdowns 366 and he did have 244 interceptions which I yeah I Eli Manning like he has 27 comebac and 37 game winning drives and obviously I le I don't know was the games tied in the Super Bowl I think one was tied and when they were down weren't they can't remember uh they were down in the first one yeah and then the other one I think they were just tied right or yeah yeah because I bel I believe so but don't quote me on that.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah so that that two of those game winning drives were in the Super Bowl so and so that and he got MVPs for both those super Super Bowl wins.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah I mean Eli has had a really I like only I like to compare Eli to Terry Bradshaw because he's thrown he always seemed to throw like a lot of interceptions like he he had a lot of bad interceptions but it seems like when the chips are down and you need a game winning drive and if Tom Brady and Johnny Unitis and Joe Montana aren't available I've always said this I'll take Opie any day of the week and you know what Opie could have thrown four interceptions up to the fourth quarter if you're within a touchdown or four points put him out there put the ball in his hands he's gonna figure out a way to win it he he is like one of the more clutch NFL players in NFL history.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_01: He really is but on the Ben Rothesberger was probably I don't know if he's quite as clutch as Eli but he's pretty close um Ben had 418 touchdowns he actually has better stats than both these guys believe it or not 211 interceptions 41 comebacks 53 game winning drives he and he has two Super Bowl wins and one Super Bowl winning drive so I think overall Ben has the better stats.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_01: I mean I guess Rivers has three more touchdowns than him and Ben has two more interceptions so but I just think that Super Bowl drive and he has a lot more comebacks and I I don't know I just think Ben's the better quarterback per se but Eli is so clutch I I don't like I go back like I I I like Ben Rothesberger he's a great quarterback what a couple Super Bowls we wouldn't have won those Super Bowls without him but man I outside of like I said outside of Tom Brady or Johnny United or Joe Montana give me Eli I'll take Ben too but I mean if I wasn't allowed to pick a hometown guy I I'll take Eli of any any any other guys you'd pick be besides these three Tim yeah yeah I mean Eli it's it's it's he's the only guy other than Nick Foles who could who ever beat Tom Brady in a game that mattered.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_02: I mean it really it's really true.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_02: Like he he's the only guy that could beat Tom Brady in a Super Bowl and he did it twice.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_02: Once when Tom Brady was undefeated.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_02: Matthew Stafford beat him in a playoff game yeah I mean but in a Super Bowl I mean okay yeah yeah I mean it what Brady played in you know 14 Super Bowls so uh it's it's just that's amazing in and of itself like he he Eli should be in the Hall of Fame just for those two games.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_02: And it's it's so strange because those Giants teams were never great.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_02: That that Giants team in 2011 they were seven and seven on Christmas they were seven and seven like and they and they beat the Patriots in the Super Bowl six weeks later or whatever.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_02: That's that you know those teams were never great they were never d like but they won two Super Bowls and they beat Tom Brady both times.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_02: So you're right Eli was clutch you got to give it to him for that and and Revers was very very good I just you know do you blame him?
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_02: Do you blame the organization?
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_02: They could just never put everything together they had so much talent on that team.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_02: Like Eli didn't have that I know he had like you know Tiki Barber and some good players but you know and plexico Burris had some good seasons there.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_02: But he did not Ladanian Tomlinson was like otherworldly Antonio Gates might be the greatest tight end of that era um like they had some real talent on that team and they could never win anything.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah yeah I mean they they had way more talent than the Giants ever did and he just could never win and and were they in the same conference as the Patriots yeah but I mean how many times you know they lost that one game to the Patriots when they they had the game one they had an interception and then like the guy just like instead of just sitting down with the ball he's like running around and then Troy Brown like strips him and like it was so annoying.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_01: That was one of the most frustrating games like and I'm not even a fan of the Chargers and I'm definitely not a fan of the Patriots but like I can't imagine like being a fan like they should have won that game.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_01: It was like oh my goodness they just that was almost like something the Cincinnati Bengals would do.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_02: And that wasn't their only I mean everybody remembers that one as the and that was definitely their biggest gaff but there were literally like seven other times in that game where they they even all the way up to the last second field goal that they missed that they could have won that game.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_02: And that was just how they rolled and that's kind of honestly like it's funny we we talked about um that forgotten playoff game years ago between the Steelers and Chargers.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's funny that their history is you know they had this era with Dan Fouts and and Kellen Winslow senior and you know Chuck Muncie and all these uh Sean Jefferson all these great offensive players and they couldn't win anything.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_02: And then fast forward uh 25 years and they had the exact same thing.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_02: This great talent and they couldn't win anything.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_01: And and to this day their only Super Bowl appearance was Stan Humphreys I mean it's just and that team that team I I guess they had uh what's his name Junior Sayao natron means wasn't bad that team wasn't no they weren't as not as good as yeah yeah were they a threat in the AFC any other year other than that I mean they had that one kind of magical year and that was it.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_02: And Sam Humphries was a journeyman you know but but the Chargers teams of the 70s and 80s and the Chargers teams of the 2000s they were contenders every single year.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_02: Every single year they were going to go to the Super Bowl and then they just never did it.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_01: So well Ben was definitely very clutch and you could argue who was more clutch him or Eli.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_01: I I guess you give the edge the Eli just because he has that extra Super Bowl win.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_01: It would have been nice if Ben could have pulled out that win against Rogers.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah but it wasn't to be I mean that would have been too that would have probably that would put him in elite company like he's already elite but like imagine like him with three Super Bowl wins and two Super Bowl comebacks like you would argue I always thought if they would have won that Super Bowl they would have been better than the Patriots.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_01: They could have said okay we're Better than the Patriots, but then the Patriots went on and won like nine more Super Bowls after that.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_01: But like I always thought if they could have won that Super Bowl, like it they could have been the Washington Redskins of that era.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_01: Like nobody ever thinks of the Washington Redskins of like what the late 80s, early 90s.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like they won three Super Bowls, but everyone's like, oh, the 49ers, who were the better team.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, the Redskins won three Super Bowls in the 80s, too.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_01: And everybody was I always thought like that's where that team would kind of end up.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_01: Like they were a great team.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_01: They just weren't quite as great as the Patriots, but they were great in their own right.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_01: But be that as it may, um, was this the greatest draft of all time?
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_01: Another great like talking point, maybe.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_01: And also, like, under that, was this the greatest quarterback draft of all time?
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_01: So in 1974, the Steelers, that's probably the greatest draft of all time.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's hard to argue.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_01: Full hall four Hall of Famers and Donnie Schell, who didn't get drafted, was signed as a free agent.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_01: They all went in the Hall of Fame.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, like I said earlier, 1983 is definitely considered the greatest quarterback draft of all time.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_01: Eight total quarterbacks taken and three Hall of Famers.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_01: And um, none of those were named Todd Blackledge.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_01: But um obviously it's uh John Elway, Dan Marino, and Jim Kelly were your three Hall of Famers from that.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_01: And so, I mean, overall, I don't know.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_01: Uh is it do you think 2004 is better than 1983 and at least because it I don't think they're as good as the 1974 draft, but I'm not sure about the 2004-1983.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like there were definitely more quarterbacks taken in the 1983 draft.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_01: And that guy that played for the Jets that everybody always like Ken O'Brien.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, he had a decent career.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, he did.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and and Tony Eason took the Patriots to a Super Bowl.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, he wasn't you know, he wasn't great, but he wasn't terrible.
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_02: So it it it I think that's a good comparison, the uh the 83 draft because it's very similar where you have you have a lot of quarterbacks, you have the guy that refused to play for the team that drafted him at number one, like a lot of parallels there.
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_02: And so yeah, you said they had there was three Hall of Famers.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_02: You're probably you're probably gonna have three Hall of Famers out of the 2004 draft when it's all said and done.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_02: The three guys you're talking about.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_02: You know, do those are those three as good as Elway, Kelly, and Marino?
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_02: Like if you if you stacked the three of them up against the three of them, I'd probably say no.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um but you know, I mean, uh if you're counting Super Bowl wins, you know, they've they've got double the Super Bowl wins of those guys, so you got that at least.
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_01: Let's see, John Elway.
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, Lway's the only guy that has any with two.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_01: It is crazy because all those guys played in the AFC.
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, Kelly went to four Super Bowls, Marino went to one, Elway went to six or five.
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_01: Five.
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_01: Five.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_01: So I mean, they made a lot of Super Bowls, but unfortunately, you know, uh the Redskins and 49ers were just better teams overall.
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_01: I mean and they lost to who did the Dolphins?
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_01: The Dolphins lost to the 49ers, right?
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_01: And so Yeah.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_01: LA lost to the Redskins.
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and Kelly lost to the Cowboys and the and the Redskins and the and the Giants.
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_02: Like so they were definitely up against the best teams of the of that era, but still, I mean, hey, the the Eli and Ben were up against, you know, the Patriots and and uh and Kurt Warner and you know Aaron Rodgers and you know, so there was it wasn't like there wasn't competition for those guys either.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, maybe maybe Kelly Marino and Ellie are are better quarterbacks, but I mean going back to your argument about clutch, I I'd rather have Eli Manning or Ben Rothesperger than Dan Marina or Jim Kelly.
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that's a good point.
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um whatever happened to all these quarterbacks, like we said, Phillip Rivers never wins the Super Bowl, but he's a generally nice guy.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I think he ends up in the Hall of Fame.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_01: I don't see how you keep him out of the Hall of Fame.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_01: If you're you know, is Jim Plunkett?
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_01: Jim Plunkett's not in the Hall of Fame, right?
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_01: But there's other there's other quarterbacks that aren't don't have the resume that he does that are in there, I'm sure.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_02: I I believe uh Jim Plunkett is the only, I think the trivia question there is he's the only quarterback to win multiple Super Bowls and not and not be in the Hall of Fame.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_02: Who's eligible?
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, Ben and Eli aren't eligible yet.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_01: Eli when oh, Eli hasn't been out of the league five years yet?
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_01: Oh wow.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_01: So Eli's won two Super Bowls in New York, and number one because it's in New York, and number two, he's been very clutch, and like I said, and I I don't think he threw a lot of interceptions, but not enough to where it's like Terry Bradshaw.
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_01: Like I always kind of thought Eli, like I said earlier, Eli and Terry are very similar players, and it's just it he's gonna get in the Hall of Fame.
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_01: He's a lock.
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I I think if Ben doesn't get in on his first try in the Hall of Fame, there's something wrong with the Hall of Fame because you know I could see Philip Rivers maybe have to wait a year or two just because these other two guys are gonna go first, and depending on who else they're up against, but I think Phillip Rivers will get in.
• 49:45
  SPEAKER_01: It might just take him an extra couple years.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_02: Ben Ben Ben was definitely helped by Tom Brady coming back because yeah, yeah, because they were gonna be, yeah.
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that helps Philip Rivers actually, because they're gonna put Ben in.
• 49:59
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I I can't imagine Ben isn't gonna go in the first year he's eligible, and Eli too.
• 50:05
  SPEAKER_01: So they might, I mean, I don't know when Eli's eligible, but I mean, Ben and yeah, that would have been Ben and Brady, and they're not gonna put in Rivers at the same time.
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_01: So when did Rivers retire the year before, though, right?
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_01: Correct.
• 50:19
  SPEAKER_01: So maybe they maybe he still gets in, maybe they put Rivers.
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_01: Well, they normally don't put you in early, they normally wait.
• 50:25
  SPEAKER_01: It just it really depends on who you're up against.
• 50:28
  SPEAKER_01: It really does.
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_02: Right, right.
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_01: But I th but I again, when it's all said and done, I think all three of them will be there.
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_01: I would I would be shocked if they weren't.
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I'd be shocked if Philip Rivers doesn't get in.
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I guess you can hold the no Super Bowls against him, but like I said, I don't think he was ever like and two, he's not like a guy that was mean to the media or you know what I mean?
• 50:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I I think Ben, if he would have done the Barry Bonds thing through his whole career, like just been a total jerk to everybody all the time, like maybe Ben doesn't get in on his first or second try just because the media wouldn't have liked him.
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_01: But I think Ben's rehabbed his image enough to where he'll he'll make it in.
• 51:12
  SPEAKER_01: He'll make it in.
• 51:13
  SPEAKER_01: Agreed.
• 51:14
  unknown: Agreed.
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_01: And it is weird, like how Ben and both Ben and uh Rivers like at the end of their careers couldn't throw a ball more than 10 yards.
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_01: They both like they both they're like their arms just like you know, Ben's arm really went like after that Dallas game, not this year, but last year.
• 51:34
  SPEAKER_01: I thought after that he couldn't really throw the deep ball anymore.
• 51:37
  SPEAKER_02: So a a little f a little fantasy football tip for folks that play fantasy football that I've really picked up on in the last few years.
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_02: If you get a lot of points if you have a running back that catches passes, try to find a running back that has an old quarterback because old quarterbacks love to just dump off to the running back and check down to the running back.
• 51:57
  SPEAKER_02: And and so Najee Harris had a lot of those kinds of catches last year because Ben just dumped off to him all the time, and whoever the Colts guy was the year before, Marvin Mack or whoever, had the same thing because uh Rivers was doing the same thing.
• 52:13
  SPEAKER_01: That fourth, that was the infamous fourth down play where, like, oh yeah, it's fourth and goal, and he just dumps it off.
• 52:18
  SPEAKER_01: The like, like, what's the point?
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like, that's how you kind of knew Ben was at the end there.
• 52:23
  SPEAKER_01: Because you know, he just would have all the days he just would have ran around and probably thrown an interception or a touchdown, and he wouldn't have cared either.
• 52:31
  SPEAKER_02: He he was definitely he was definitely done, but like, man, to your point about clutch, he still made what like six fourth quarter comebacks on his last year.
• 52:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and he couldn't he couldn't, he was a statue.
• 52:42
  SPEAKER_01: He was a statue in the yeah.
• 52:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, one of the one of the podcasts I listened to uh at one point joked during the season they were just gonna get him a chair.
• 52:51
  SPEAKER_02: Like they were just all he'd be sitting in a chair.
• 52:56
  SPEAKER_01: But but yeah, he's gonna laugh all the way to the bank and to the uh to to the hall of fame.
• 53:02
  SPEAKER_01: And good for Ben, he deserved it, he earned it.
• 53:04
  SPEAKER_01: And uh hopefully uh Eli and Phillip they'll see him there too in Canton.
• 53:09
  SPEAKER_01: So um if you have any uh disagreements with our uh assessments of these guys, uh that's too bad because we're right and you're wrong.
• 53:17
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just kidding, of course.
• 53:18
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• 53:20
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• 53:25
  SPEAKER_01: And um, yeah, thank you for listening to our podcast.
• 53:28
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• 53:33
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• 53:39
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for tuning in.