Latest / Customer Service Revolution | Customer Experience & Employee Experience for Business Leaders / 193: John's Journey Part 2

Transcript

193: John's Journey Part 2 · Customer Service Revolution | Customer Experience & Employee Experience for Business Leaders

• 0:03
  Hey, revolutionaries, welcome back to the customer service revolution podcast.
• 0:09
  First, I want to start off thanking our listeners for your reviews.
• 0:12
  They really keep us motivated and updated on what you like to hear, and they help others find the podcast too.
• 0:18
  And I want to give a special shout out to Nikki Gelata-Brikacek of Gypsy Beans and Baking Company in Cleveland's Detroit Shoreway neighborhood.
• 0:27
  She shared with us how inspiring the podcast has been for her.
• 0:31
  Nikki opened her coffee shop and bakery before anyone believed in that neighborhood.
• 0:34
  And she and her friendly service focused team have been instrumental in creating and building community there.
• 0:40
  We also want to thank our listeners for their question, questions.
• 0:45
  They're what prompted today's episode where we're going to put John on the hot seat.
• 0:49
  Many of you want to know about John's backstory and how he came to become known as the authority on customer service, working with world-class organizations around the world.
• 1:00
  Are you ready, John?
• 1:02
  I am.
• 1:02
  How are you, Denise?
• 1:05
  Looks like you're in Florida.
• 1:07
  I am, I am.
• 1:09
  came and get a little sunshine this week.
• 1:12
  Good, I was there a couple of days ago.
• 1:16
  Yeah.
• 1:18
  Last week.
• 1:20
  And then Monday I was in Boca.
• 1:23
  So it was nice.
• 1:24
  was, I think it was 82, which was really nice.
• 1:28
  One of the, if I can flex here, I got a tough gig coming up tomorrow.
• 1:35
  have for the next 10 days have to go to four different resorts in four.
• 1:42
  Caribbean islands and work with them and be a mystery shopper.
• 1:47
  So, yeah.
• 1:50
  wow, that's a lot of work.
• 1:52
  I'm feeling happy for you.
• 1:55
  know, I I know, I'm looking forward to
• 1:57
  really though, it's hard.
• 1:58
  It's hard.
• 1:58
  know.
• 2:00
  You know, a lot of traveling.
• 2:02
  It's part of the gig though, isn't it?
• 2:04
  No, I'm looking forward to it.
• 2:05
  It'll be nice.
• 2:08
  Great.
• 2:09
  So John, I've known you for about 30 years now.
• 2:13
  Hard to believe.
• 2:14
  When I first met you, you were an employee, not a business owner, but even then I know you had an entrepreneurial spirit about you.
• 2:23
  Is that something you've always had?
• 2:26
  Yeah, I think so.
• 2:28
  You know, I don't know it's true, entrepreneurs are born.
• 2:30
  But I remember when I was in college, I literally lost sleep at night because I didn't know what I wanted to do.
• 2:40
  I knew I wanted to own my own business and like literally drive my friend, Joe Panito crazy, you know, tell him, I'm like, what is it going to be?
• 2:50
  And as you know, I played baseball in college.
• 2:54
  I loved
• 2:56
  baseball, love, sports, and just new, you know, my brain worked differently of like, you know, I don't know if entrepreneurs make good employees, right?
• 3:07
  Because we question everything.
• 3:10
  And like the article that came out this week that I wrote, which is going to be a couple of weeks ago, outspoken employees aren't a bad thing.
• 3:20
  I was that outspoken employee that just would always say, why, why, why?
• 3:24
  And, you know,
• 3:25
  Why do we have to do it that way?
• 3:27
  And it was both curiosity and learning.
• 3:30
  But anyway, anyway, I knew I just wanted to open my own business, but I didn't know what it would be.
• 3:38
  And the only thing I could put together was sports, which I loved, and owning a business.
• 3:44
  So I thought I would open a sporting goods store.
• 3:47
  This is back in the late 80s, right?
• 3:49
  And it was like, that'll probably be what I do.
• 3:51
  But as you know,
• 3:54
  I was working at UPS while was in college.
• 3:57
  And when I graduated from UPS in the late 80s, I'm sorry, graduated from college in the late 80s, my marketing degree from Cleveland State would get me about 18 to $22,000 a
• 4:10
  year, which was what it have bared.
• 4:14
  Or I had enough seniority at UPS to go driving and drivers made, you know, 40 to 45,000, which was...
• 4:23
  unheard of.
• 4:24
  Like for me, was might as well have been a billion dollars.
• 4:29
  So my plan was, all right, I'll work at UPS, get out of debt, put some money away, and then go open that sporting goods store.
• 4:40
  And it's kind of what happened, but not that way.
• 4:46
  So how did it happen?
• 4:47
  So I met Stacey, who's this wonderful...
• 4:51
  So UPS became a problem because, well, A, didn't love it.
• 4:58
  It was a great job, great benefits.
• 5:00
  Learned so many things I was able to apply in our businesses.
• 5:04
  But I drove to work every day and said in 29 months, in 29 years, three months and two days, I could retire.
• 5:13
  You know, thinking if I had to stay there, you know, it couldn't go fast enough.
• 5:17
  And it just, you it really bothered me.
• 5:19
  I'm like, what do think I put on my headstone that he delivered packages on time accurately?
• 5:24
  And that really bothered me.
• 5:26
  And so, you know, it goes to that thing, you know, money, you know, doesn't make you happy.
• 5:30
  And it was it was so much money for me back then.
• 5:35
  So so I bet it was golden handcuffs because, know, you make forty five thousand, you're going to spend forty six.
• 5:42
  You know, you make one hundred, you're going to spend one hundred and one.
• 5:45
  So
• 5:46
  I meet Stacey and she's this fantastic hairdresser.
• 5:53
  And so a couple of things that started happening is when we started, we were dating and engaged and get married, I would learn about the business and she would tell me that, my
• 6:05
  good friend, Jennifer, who worked with her quit yesterday.
• 6:10
  And I'm like, why?
• 6:12
  Jennifer loves to do hair.
• 6:13
  She had to get a real job.
• 6:16
  you know, she needed insurance.
• 6:17
  She needed, you know, benefits.
• 6:19
  She needed, you know, this.
• 6:20
  you know, Stacey would just tell me how, you know, the salon industry back then in the early nineties just, you know, didn't offer, at least in Cleveland, you know,
• 6:30
  hairdressers, training, benefits, health.
• 6:35
  And so they'd lose a lot of people to real jobs, right?
• 6:39
  And so I used say, man, you know, we, you know, we should, we should, you know,
• 6:44
  open a salon that did, and she would also tell me how the customer service wasn't good, that someone would come in and not like their color and her boss would throw them out.
• 6:54
  I'm like, my gosh, she goes, that's not uncommon in the industry.
• 6:58
  I'm like, So I started thinking about that.
• 7:02
  And so it became a selfish motive that if we can open a salon for Stacey and it took off,
• 7:14
  I could quit this great paying job and open my sporting goods store.
• 7:20
  And that was really where my mind was.
• 7:22
  And it's so funny, know, one audience I love to talk to is young college students, our interns and stuff, just because like, I feel like everyone, these younger kids feel so
• 7:35
  pressured to, you know, have it figured out of what they're going to do for the next 40 years.
• 7:41
  And both my primary careers were
• 7:47
  I'm not.
• 7:52
  And then, you know, five years later, you said, John, you're going to, know, your career is going to be speaking and consulting.
• 8:02
  would bet you a million dollars.
• 8:04
  It's not, you know, and, know, both, you know, are the luckiest things I've ever had.
• 8:09
  So anyway, so I was always thinking,
• 8:13
  And then we'd go out once in a while with Stacey's workforce and her boss, Mario.
• 8:20
  And I'd always ask him, hey, Mario, why don't you market to your customers like this?
• 8:25
  Or why don't you send them, like, just got something from my dentist thanking me for referring.
• 8:32
  I give him all these ideas and he just laughed and just said, don't ever stop driving a truck.
• 8:39
  And like that crushed me.
• 8:41
  Like, I'm like, oh.
• 8:42
  Like, yeah, I don't know.
• 8:42
  mean, he appeared to be a successful entrepreneur.
• 8:46
  And he just told me, like, I didn't know what I was talking about.
• 8:50
  And then eventually, we just did it.
• 8:53
  We just did it.
• 8:54
  We opened a salon.
• 8:55
  But it was because we wanted something better for the industry.
• 9:00
  Again, I didn't think I'd ever be in it.
• 9:02
  But we wanted to open up something that, three things that Socare employees
• 9:10
  had a great customer experience and gave back to the community.
• 9:16
  We had the three nos, no employees, no money, and no customers.
• 9:21
  And so one of the things why customer service was so important was the only way we could differentiate ourselves.
• 9:27
  couldn't out advertise, out spend, out market, out build the 20 other salons that were within a half a mile radius of our first location in Mayfield Heights.
• 9:38
  So we just took the plunge and opened the salon.
• 9:43
  And you've seen our business plan, the cocktail napkins, when me and Stacey would be out and we were dating and engaged.
• 9:57
  And some of it, I think I was just trying to impress her and say, yeah, well, we'll open a salon someday.
• 10:04
  But we wrote these things and we still have them framed today of
• 10:07
  Treat the customer really, really well and take care of the employees.
• 10:11
  And it wasn't the sexiest language, it was, you know, it's what we kind of did.
• 10:17
  So we open it.
• 10:19
  Yeah.
• 10:20
  was going say, so you really were about the customer and employee experience from the get-go.
• 10:24
  Yeah, only because she would tell me how bad it was in the industry.
• 10:31
  So I was like, all right, why can't we do something a little different?
• 10:37
  then she had been out of school maybe three or four years, beauty school.
• 10:44
  she had gone to school with some, obviously she went to beauty school with other people and her other friends now were like her really good hairdressers at
• 10:54
  you know, well-named salons in Cleveland at the time.
• 10:58
  And they all said, you know, if any of us ever open a salon, let's, you know, go, you know, be together.
• 11:02
  So she called them and they said, yeah, absolutely.
• 11:05
  And, and so I thought, my God, we're gonna, we're gonna make a million dollars the first week.
• 11:12
  Right.
• 11:12
  I mean, like we have Stacey and these three other hairdressers that have a full clientele.
• 11:17
  I'm like, this is the greatest business model of all time.
• 11:21
  And then,
• 11:23
  within a month, five weeks, this is 32 years ago, February 15th, within a month or four or five weeks, the other three quit.
• 11:36
  They want nothing to do with our business plan, our cocktail napkins.
• 11:43
  And someone said in the beauty industry, I didn't know many people, but through Stacey,
• 11:48
  when they found out we were opening a salon, they said, why would you do that?
• 11:53
  Like, what do mean?
• 11:54
  Like, this is the greatest, you know, blah, blah, blah.
• 11:56
  Tell them how different we're gonna be.
• 11:57
  And they told me, hairdressers are the worst creatures walking planet Earth.
• 12:04
  This is someone from the salon industry.
• 12:06
  I'm like, my God, what a horrible person and what a horrible thought.
• 12:11
  And then I went through that, like by experiences, like,
• 12:16
  These other hairdressers, the traditional hairdresser back in the early 90s, they'd come in late, hung over, very territorial.
• 12:26
  If a client would call up and say, can I get in with so and so?
• 12:31
  And we'd say, well, she's booked until Thursday or we have so and so available now.
• 12:38
  I'll take so and so this time.
• 12:40
  Well, then that hairdresser would see her client in someone else's chair and
• 12:45
  just cause a scene right there in the middle of the salon.
• 12:48
  And it was just like, oh my God, what are you doing?
• 12:53
  so we butted heads and had our philosophies and say, no, that's not the way it is.
• 13:00
  We just make the client happy and they wanted nothing to do with that.
• 13:05
  So one day when we walked in, the three didn't show up and they quit.
• 13:12
  And we, I literally thought we were gonna go out of business, you know, within, you know, immediately.
• 13:18
  So you weren't deterred though.
• 13:20
  Sure.
• 13:21
  Yeah, sure.
• 13:23
  So that's where I made the mistake, not mistake, God, I can't believe I'm gonna say mistake.
• 13:27
  The realization that, well, so now I think that hairdressers are horrible, human beings, like the person told me and I just experienced.
• 13:39
  And I wanna know how we can get more Stacey's, right?
• 13:41
  Stacey was a great employee before she was a owner, meaning,
• 13:47
  When she worked at our other salon, if she was going to be on vacation or she was booked, she'd say, listen, go to Carla.
• 13:53
  I'll tell her how I do her.
• 13:55
  You'll love her.
• 13:56
  You'll really like her.
• 13:57
  Or if she didn't think she was right fit for you, she would recommend, or if she had a cancellation, she would help someone else out.
• 14:05
  And that was what we thought we were going to get.
• 14:08
  knowing the three we had experienced weren't like that.
• 14:13
  So we were like, how do we get other Stacey's?
• 14:16
  couple things we did.
• 14:17
  One, no one did this in the industry.
• 14:19
  I don't know how many people do it today, 32 years later.
• 14:23
  But back then, no one, it was at Catch 22 that you had to have a clientele and experience to get hired by a salon, right?
• 14:33
  And how do you, when you come out of beauty school, how do you get a clientele and experience if no one will hire you because you don't have.
• 14:39
  So that's when we did something totally different.
• 14:40
  We're like, all right, let's hire people out of beauty school with no experience.
• 14:45
  what we did with you, right?
• 14:47
  27 years ago, I forget, I keep on forgetting, we just talked about this.
• 14:53
  And train them our way, train them to be mini Stacey's.
• 14:57
  And then people in the industry that, know, so-called experts said, now you're really gonna go out of business, because you're gonna hire people with no experience, that can't
• 15:06
  bring you in any money.
• 15:08
  So they're gonna, you know, be a non revenue producing employee.
• 15:11
  and you have to pay them and they're not gonna generate any money.
• 15:14
  And we just, we literally said we'd rather go out of business than compromise what we just experienced and have that.
• 15:21
  So we started doing that.
• 15:24
  And that's why I decided to go to beauty school.
• 15:27
  I still laugh that I'm saying that.
• 15:29
  Because the logic was we had four chairs back then.
• 15:34
  And I said 50 % of the staff was me and Stacey.
• 15:40
  that was 50 % I had to worry about not coming in, coming in hungover, stealing, know, all the experiences I either heard about or had just gone through.
• 15:52
  And we had Johnny at the time.
• 15:54
  And so I knew we wanted to have more kids.
• 15:58
  And I'm like, well, that's gonna take Stacey out of the salon, you know, temporarily.
• 16:03
  And, you know, if I'm not there, you know, then we have no one there.
• 16:07
  So yeah, I...
• 16:09
  Kicking and screaming went into, you know, to beauty school.
• 16:12
  I didn't want to, you know, wasn't something I like fantasized about.
• 16:16
  I loved the business end.
• 16:18
  And then I, so I went to beauty school and was Stacey's assistant for a year and then eventually went on the floor.
• 16:25
  then, but that, that strategy of taking people out of school really paid off.
• 16:33
  It took, it took a while, but then when we started having, you know, the, the Patty and
• 16:38
  Denise and the first few people go on the floor.
• 16:42
  Stacey had such an overflow and a waiting list that people just all gravitated to her assistance because they were so used to dealing with them that all of a these people were
• 16:52
  growing and they were mini Stacey's.
• 16:54
  mean, that's when you came along a few years later and the next door to us.
• 17:02
  So we had 900 square feet the first time.
• 17:05
  Then the next, the place next door to us went out of business.
• 17:07
  So we knocked that wall down and went to 1200 square foot.
• 17:10
  And then the place next door, I think this is about when you came along, went out of business and we knocked the wall down and added another 1000 square feet.
• 17:21
  So maybe we're at 2200 and that's when we added spa services, which is when we hired you.
• 17:27
  So now.
• 17:28
  you know, the salons are rocking and I'm in it every day, you know, behind a chair, you know, do a cutting hair and pry on my cell phone, you know, doing the business end as
• 17:40
  well.
• 17:42
  Do you miss those days?
• 17:44
  I love the atmosphere and the energy.
• 17:48
  Like my favorite day was a Saturday.
• 17:50
  Like just, it was just crazy.
• 17:53
  And just, you know, just everyone just working together.
• 17:55
  But yeah, I love, I love, know I didn't love doing hair, but I, but I learned a lot and it gave me more credibility with the staff.
• 18:04
  Cause I didn't, you know, if I just came and told you or a hairdresser, you know, you know, do it this way, you know, how do I know?
• 18:11
  So, but I love the clients.
• 18:13
  That was really cool too.
• 18:15
  So at this time, are you still thinking you're gonna open a sporting goods store?
• 18:19
  No, no, no.
• 18:20
  that became, it took off the salons and so, know, someone told me this and I believe they were right.
• 18:32
  One of the reasons why we were successful was, I don't think this is just subject to beauty industry.
• 18:40
  I think this could be a restaurant, this could be landscaping, this could be any type of business.
• 18:45
  The...
• 18:47
  Most hairdressers get very good, maybe mentally sick of making the owner rich, and they go up in their own salon.
• 18:57
  And they're so good behind the chair, artistically, or as a chef, or as an artist landscaping construction.
• 19:07
  And they go up in their own, but they don't know the business end.
• 19:12
  And that's why I think a lot of those small businesses
• 19:16
  I don't know if it's today, but it's definitely back then we're really bad at the business end and employee culture and customer service is because they knew the craft, but they
• 19:25
  didn't know the business end and the P&L and all that.
• 19:28
  So, so someone told me, you know, their opinion of why we were so successful is because, know, Stacey was the artist and so great and gifted and inspiring.
• 19:41
  And then I was at the opposite end of the spectrum, all business.
• 19:46
  and systems and customer service and all that.
• 19:49
  And neither would have been successful by itself.
• 19:53
  Hairdressers don't want to work at a corporation.
• 19:56
  And I kind of had like that corporate kind of business mentality.
• 20:02
  then, you know, just being an artist without that, you know, you have some holes.
• 20:06
  it kind of, you know, me and Stacey's, you know, know, forces kept the pendulum in the middle.
• 20:13
  of we had really strong artists with a business, a professional business practice.
• 20:18
  So then I was like, this is in 94, 95, 96, I'm like, all right, we're just gonna open salons in every city in the world.
• 20:29
  And that was gonna be my future.
• 20:32
  So if you were to go back and talk to yourself right before you open that, you have changed anything?
• 20:41
  Would you give yourself any advice?
• 20:42
  Would you have done anything differently?
• 20:45
  Yeah, I mean, you know,
• 20:49
  I mean, you know, whenever I think of all the landmines, we stepped down, you know, sometimes you needed to.
• 20:55
  But yeah, making sure that we were always growing.
• 20:59
  And so I was never worried about being profitable because I knew tomorrow was going to be busier than today.
• 21:08
  today was busier than yesterday.
• 21:10
  Now, that didn't last, but during those growth spurts.
• 21:14
  I didn't I didn't worry as much about P &L and making sure that we were
• 21:18
  you know, saving for the winter seasons of the business.
• 21:24
  So maybe that, and then just learning, you know, better management techniques than kind of the generation I was reading the books back then on the Jack Welsches of the world and,
• 21:39
  you know, just, you know, bottom line.
• 21:41
  Steve Jobs was an idol of mine.
• 21:44
  And in some ways he still is, but not, you know,
• 21:47
  the way treated people.
• 21:48
  So I think, you know, I had to go through that evolution too of, of unprogramming myself that that was the right way.
• 21:58
  And who influenced you the most, you think, during that time?
• 22:04
  I don't know, getting in the industry.
• 22:08
  Fred Holzberger, was our AVEDA distributor, going to shows, seeing David Wagner in Van and just other people first in the industry that were doing it right, doing it unique, hearing
• 22:25
  Van Michael from, Van Council from Van Michael's in Atlanta.
• 22:31
  talk about how successful he was and he would say, success leaves clues.
• 22:36
  And you want to be successful, just find, you know, whatever you want to be successful at.
• 22:41
  You want to be rich, hang around rich people, read the books they read, invest like they read, you know, but you want to be skinny and hang around skinny people, eat what they
• 22:49
  eat, exercise, do what they do.
• 22:50
  It's not rocket science.
• 22:52
  And it was like, you know, then I, so I just started, you know, trying to find, you know, people that
• 22:58
  were where I wanted to be and just did what they did.
• 23:03
  So you're wearing a lot of hats at this time.
• 23:06
  I mean, you're managing the salon, you're doing marketing, you're hiring, you're working behind the chair.
• 23:12
  How did you get, how did you turn that and eventually start speaking?
• 23:18
  Was that what came next?
• 23:20
  Yeah, probably.
• 23:21
  So we started hiring people like you and Eric, and we went from just having a front desk receptionist to, you were probably one of the first managers, were you?
• 23:35
  Was there anybody before you that was?
• 23:39
  You taught me everything when I started.
• 23:43
  there any, were you the first manager we probably had?
• 23:47
  Aside from Kathy running the front desk?
• 23:50
  Everything.
• 23:51
  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 23:52
  My sister Kathy.
• 23:53
  So yeah, so you were working for us for a couple of years as a service provider and then we promoted you to whatever that first job title was, but that was to start delegating
• 24:07
  those responsibilities.
• 24:08
  I don't know.
• 24:09
  We talked about whatever, know, doing interviewing.
• 24:13
  doing some marketing, whatever.
• 24:15
  So it would free me up to focus on the business or whatever.
• 24:21
  And so that was it.
• 24:22
  That's what I thought.
• 24:24
  I would have bet money that that was gonna be my...
• 24:29
  The future was gonna be salon businesses.
• 24:34
  And in Cleveland, we had a pretty good reputation, the salons, for our growth.
• 24:43
  We're getting a lot of media publicity, a lot of celebrities in Cleveland and TV talent and baseball players would come in.
• 24:52
  so we were kind of the place.
• 24:55
  a lot of wives would go home or, know, to their husbands who own businesses and say, know, you your business needs to run like John Roberts Spa.
• 25:07
  And so there was a buzz going on.
• 25:09
  then people started inquiring if I would speak at.
• 25:12
  the local chamber of commerce.
• 25:15
  And I was like, sure.
• 25:17
  And only with the intention of thinking it was a good marketing opportunity, that there'd be 100 or 200 business owners in there and they would, if they weren't women, they'd come
• 25:29
  in or buy their wives a gift certificate.
• 25:31
  And that was the only reason why I did it.
• 25:36
  every time I did it, I'd get two or three business owners who would come up and ask if they got hired me to.
• 25:42
  speak to their company.
• 25:44
  And I didn't even know that was a thing.
• 25:46
  And I was like, sure.
• 25:48
  And, you know, I went back to you and say, you know, what do we do?
• 25:51
  What do we charge them?
• 25:52
  And then more on a national level, the salon industry started having me speak in the salon industry, at their show, trade shows in Vegas, Orlando, Chicago, wherever that was.
• 26:08
  And so.
• 26:09
  creating a buzz there too, winning a lot of awards and.
• 26:13
  Yeah.
• 26:14
  And so I really enjoyed it.
• 26:17
  You know, I liked it.
• 26:18
  I didn't have a fear of speaking, even though I probably, you know, was rough.
• 26:23
  But I certainly liked getting up in front of people and telling the story as unpolished as I know I was.
• 26:30
  So I remember being at some of the big shows and they'd have the real speakers on main stage, you know.
• 26:40
  the Jim Gilmore, know, Stephen Covey or Michael Gerber or, you know, whoever were at those shows.
• 26:47
  And, you know, I would be a breakout room downstairs.
• 26:52
  You know, you need a map and a flashlight to find as it should be.
• 26:56
  But I would wait in line.
• 26:57
  Guy Kawasaki was another one.
• 26:59
  I'd wait in line after these big speakers on main stage and and with everyone else.
• 27:06
  I'd say, hi, I'm a speaker, too.
• 27:07
  I, you know, did a breakout.
• 27:09
  downstairs and they couldn't have been nicer, Tom Peters, and they couldn't have been nicer.
• 27:15
  And I said, I think I'm pretty good at this, but I just do it a few times a year, blah, blah, blah, or half a dozen times a year.
• 27:24
  And they just gave me advice and they started telling me, you've got to write a book.
• 27:30
  And so different things like that.
• 27:33
  So up until 2000, up until
• 27:38
  Through 2002, I was a salon owner that spoke a few times a year, half a dozen times, probably mostly in the beauty industry and then locally.
• 27:51
  So I was a salon owner that spoke a little bit.
• 27:55
  And then my first book, Secret Service, came out January 2003 and overnight, but over that year, I went from a salon owner that spoke to a speaker that owned salons.
• 28:08
  you know, my days were numbered of being involved in the salons.
• 28:11
  And that book just seemed to have blown up and just started getting calls from real companies, Chick-fil-A, Starbucks, the Ritz-Carlton, Nordstrom's, Lexus.
• 28:25
  you know, I was like, my God, like, you know, what can I teach them?
• 28:30
  And that's probably, I forget, I know we talked about this in our previous episode.
• 28:35
  We around then that's when you jumped from this just John Roberts spot to the de Julius group to help help grow that or handle the growth or whatever we want to call it.
• 28:50
  You make it sound like a lot of it was luck, but having been there, I remember how hard you worked during those times.
• 28:59
  And you were constantly creating, innovating.
• 29:03
  There were systems within the salon to ensure that the customer was treated right, to ensure that we were training the way we should be.
• 29:13
  And you had documents, you created systems, processes.
• 29:18
  probably the beginning of the methodology that's used now that you used to, I think we sold them at that time, like books, notebooks, binders to other salons because everybody
• 29:33
  wanted to know how did you do it?
• 29:35
  How was this happening?
• 29:37
  And you unselfishly gave these people your tools, what you were doing.
• 29:43
  Were you not afraid that someone was gonna copy you or?
• 29:48
  I don't know, that they were your competition.
• 29:51
  I don't know.
• 29:52
  didn't think about that.
• 29:53
  you know, I wasn't worried about people stealing.
• 29:56
  had enough hard, hard enough time getting my employees to do it.
• 30:00
  But, yeah, I don't know.
• 30:03
  I just, it was, it was, it was my beta test.
• 30:06
  And the funny thing, the mistake, one of the mistakes, one of the many mistakes I made as I started going from salon owner to professional speaker outside of the beauty industry.
• 30:21
  and speaking at the National Restaurant Association in these really big formats that had Colin Powell and these big, big headliners is I started to try to back off my bio.
• 30:42
  was slowly diminished that I owned salons.
• 30:46
  I thought that would hurt my credibility.
• 30:48
  I thought if you were
• 30:49
  worked at IBM or wherever, you didn't want to go hear a salon owner speak.
• 30:57
  I would start off with whatever I could.
• 31:04
  Maybe, obviously when my first book came out, author of, or maybe bestselling author of Secret Service.
• 31:12
  So that helped my lack of bio, right?
• 31:17
  But I put other things like I would make up like spoke at the same conference that Colin Powell did three years ago.
• 31:25
  Like anything I could get to just put in my resume or my bio or something.
• 31:31
  And then, you know, I kept on like putting farther down as I got more things to put in my bio that I owned a salon because I thought that would hurt my credibility.
• 31:42
  Right.
• 31:42
  And it's a one point where I think I
• 31:46
  totally took it off.
• 31:48
  And, you know, but here was, here was the mistake I was making.
• 31:54
  Every time someone hired me, that saw me speak, that brought me in, they, the, the CEO would, would, would say, this guy's written a book on customer service.
• 32:05
  He's, know, whatever, spoken on the same, you know, continent as Colin Powell or whatever, you know, I was saying, they'd always say this thing that
• 32:15
  probably finally on the fifth time I heard a different CEO say this, I realized how stupid I was.
• 32:21
  They said the same thing every time.
• 32:25
  The real reason why we hired him to come in and speak at this conference to all you general managers, all you franchisees is because he's not just going around telling people
• 32:34
  how to do it.
• 32:35
  He has his own salon business back in Cleveland and he is doing it himself.
• 32:42
  He's just not theorizing like most speakers.
• 32:45
  And at first, you know, the first time I heard that, like, oh, you know, that was nice that he said that.
• 32:49
  And then the second, and then by the fifth time I heard a CEO introduced me like that, I'm like, oh my God, what an idiot.
• 32:55
  I didn't realize, I thought, you know, it was a bug, not a feature.
• 32:59
  And then I put that, you know, I own successful salons back in prominently.
• 33:07
  You know, so it's just silly things that, you know, you learn.
• 33:12
  So how did you manage to keep the salon going without you there?
• 33:18
  Was that all Stacey?
• 33:20
  Well, yeah, so Stacey, we had the vision and energy inside the salon.
• 33:28
  And a lot of times, I don't know if that's still the advice, because I'm not probably reading all these entrepreneurial books.
• 33:35
  But I don't know you remember back then, so many people would say you have to work on your business instead of in your business.
• 33:45
  And I don't necessarily agree with that, depending on
• 33:49
  your skillset and Stacy would not have been someone who should have stopped doing hair and worked on the accounting, worked on the marketing, even though she probably would have
• 34:02
  been good at, she was good at marketing, but worked on the systems.
• 34:06
  That just wasn't Stacy.
• 34:07
  But man, from the money Stacy generated from behind the chair, but she even generated more money just when you work next to her.
• 34:18
  and you wanted to be her, the way she talked to the clientele, the way she would get the clientele excited about getting highlights and how beautiful, and the clientele would jump
• 34:29
  up and hug her and be crying because she never thought she could look like this.
• 34:33
  that model behavior of world-class customer service and clientele and artistic, all that.
• 34:42
  That's where Stacey was best at.
• 34:45
  we had that.
• 34:46
  then back then in the mid 90s, I hired you and then Eric, and you guys took over the business end as I started focusing more on the speaking.
• 34:57
  so I think I started stepping away.
• 35:03
  You didn't maybe know better than me, but in the mid 2000s.
• 35:07
  I don't think I was as involved in the salons anymore and I was really working on the speaking.
• 35:12
  then from 2003 to 2008, The DiJulius Group was just me doing keynotes.
• 35:24
  And again, that's where you came along and started helping me handle the leads and booking and creating it like a business.
• 35:35
  And with your help,
• 35:36
  we were getting people saying, yeah, I love your keynotes, but we don't know what to do after you leave.
• 35:44
  And so that's when, you know, with your hub, we started creating the 10 commandments.
• 35:49
  And then what's the secret came out, the second book in 2008, which was the book on the 10 commandments methodology that we still use today.
• 35:59
  And that kind of took us out of a keynote speaking business to a consulting business.
• 36:07
  And ever since then, it's been, The DiJulius Group has been a customer service consulting business based on those 10 commandments, really was born in 2008.
• 36:19
  And those were those commandments came from what you created in the salons, what you learned speaking.
• 36:27
  Everything.
• 36:28
  You know, and so, you know, another thing, so I want go back to why we opened John Roberts was because there was, there was something wrong in the industry.
• 36:37
  Not good business, well-run businesses, didn't take care of the hairdresser, didn't take care of the customer, you know, all that.
• 36:44
  So we, said, Hey, we could be different here.
• 36:46
  And we were probably naive, but we did.
• 36:50
  And we did it.
• 36:51
  Right.
• 36:52
  And, and, and we have, you know, a, a lot of people that have
• 36:57
  25, 30 years experience still with us and it's grown and it's really, really successful salon operation without me, thanks to you and Eric and all the other great managers we
• 37:10
  have.
• 37:14
  But back when I was trying to figure out how to grow John Roberts, it was easy when we just had four employees because 50 % of that was me and Stacey.
• 37:24
  So whether you, the new employee got it or you didn't, you didn't have a choice.
• 37:29
  Cause you had to work with us all day and all night and you know, we were right next to you.
• 37:33
  And if you, know, if the new employee or the employee wasn't speaking well to the client or was running late and not being empathetic and apologetic and making it right.
• 37:43
  I mean, you just, you know, you, couldn't have done that working in the trenches with me and Stacey.
• 37:49
  But then as we started opening a second salon and the third salon and
• 37:55
  both of us weren't everywhere.
• 37:58
  And I was starting to branch off into the speaking and consulting business.
• 38:03
  Our customer service went backwards because we weren't everywhere.
• 38:08
  And we took a hit.
• 38:11
  And that's when I really was starting to try to investigate how do systemize customer service?
• 38:20
  It was easy when it was a small team of 10.
• 38:24
  and we were all under the same roof and all worked the same hours.
• 38:28
  But now when we have different shifts and different locations and we had employee roulette, we had location roulette.
• 38:35
  And if the manager wasn't there, if the manager wasn't good or the owner wasn't there or you were new employee, the level of experience varied.
• 38:44
  People would come up to me and say, you own John Roberts.
• 38:46
  I was at your, know, Solon salon.
• 38:48
  And I'd say, who'd you get in that?
• 38:50
  Hold my breath.
• 38:51
  Right?
• 38:51
  Saying, God, please don't say, you know, so-and-so, you know, because I know that probably wouldn't be a good experience.
• 38:57
  So that's when, you so that's when, you know, I'm speaking, but I didn't understand the systems yet.
• 39:04
  And so I start studying and reading every book that I can get my hands on, customer service, and reading.
• 39:10
  This is before I wrote a book and reading and watching every speaker I could.
• 39:16
  There wasn't much.
• 39:17
  The internet wasn't.
• 39:19
  you know, what it is today.
• 39:20
  So was just a few conferences that I would attend or we would attend.
• 39:24
  But every book and every customer service speaker I listened to or read, I was disappointed because they'd always talk about how, you know, go above and beyond.
• 39:36
  They tell you the great Nordstrom story about you'd come in for the shoes.
• 39:42
  They didn't have them in your size.
• 39:44
  They'd run down to Macy's or Dillard's.
• 39:47
  buy them for you without you knowing, coming back, sell them to you, and you'd walk out of there happy.
• 39:53
  And I love the story, but they would only tell the story, but they would, what I wanna know is how did you get that employee to do that?
• 40:03
  And was that employee roulette that she did it, but if that customer came back tomorrow and got a different employee,
• 40:11
  or the general manager wasn't there to inspire, initiate, would that happen?
• 40:16
  And that became my biggest frustration.
• 40:18
  So that's when I really started researching on my own.
• 40:23
  I never felt like there was a good customer service book or content out there that told you the how.
• 40:30
  They told you the warm and fuzzy story, but not the how.
• 40:34
  And so that's when I studied at Disney and...
• 40:39
  you know, I just started becoming obsessed with the experience.
• 40:43
  And over time, found that there was, you know, a commonality that the best companies back then, Southwest, Disney, Nordstrom's, then she became Amazon, Zappos, know, Virgin, know,
• 40:59
  Missin' Starbucks, all those that they had in common.
• 41:06
  piece by piece, I started putting together
• 41:09
  these, these principles, which was the customer experience action statement, you know, and, and non-negotiable in the, in the customer experience cycle and, know, the signature
• 41:19
  experience and being zero risk of, you know, if we dropped the ball, we're going to make it right.
• 41:25
  And all those things.
• 41:25
  that became the methodology.
• 41:28
  And that's what the 10 commandments were born from.
• 41:31
  It was more out of a necessity as a business owner of I couldn't, initially get
• 41:37
  my salons to be consistent.
• 41:40
  We had employee roulette, we had location roulette, we had all those things that people now hire us for that today I think in the salons are so much better because we learn the
• 41:54
  hard way.
• 41:55
  Now this is something that I've seen time and again with our clients that we have so many that are multi-unit franchise that need that consistency.
• 42:05
  And that's what this methodology helps provide to them.
• 42:10
  Something I don't know that you really touched on is how big were the salons at this time?
• 42:14
  mean, how many locations are there?
• 42:18
  And how many employees do you have at John Roberts?
• 42:22
  What are we talking about here to give people an idea?
• 42:25
  Now you've stepped away and Eric is running.
• 42:28
  Eric and his team, Ashley, and they're all so good.
• 42:34
  And that goes back to a previous article, a previous podcast that we've done, that I talked about, that soul of a startup article from HBR, right?
• 42:48
  And it goes back to, you know, being in the trenches with me, you, Denise, Marie, you know, you guys would do anything, but now I'm gone.
• 42:56
  We lost Stacey.
• 42:58
  So you got to think about John Roberts lost both their owners, right?
• 43:02
  I'm not active and unfortunately we lost Stacey.
• 43:08
  And so, but we had to make you and Eric and Ashley and Lindsay and the next generation of leaders, the people that those employees would walk through a fire for and have the same
• 43:25
  obsession.
• 43:26
  But we have four locations all in Northeast Ohio.
• 43:30
  We stopped growing them from a footprint when I kinda, both me and Stacey left.
• 43:39
  We're no longer involved in the salons, but they do great.
• 43:44
  They do between five and $6 million a year.
• 43:47
  And I think they're just really, run really, really well, maybe better than they've ever been right now.
• 43:55
  And that attributes to Eric and Ashley and all his salon leaders.
• 44:02
  And they are obsessed with the customer experience.
• 44:04
  I mean, they kind of don't have a choice, you know, A, working for me, but also there's so many people that read the book, hear me speak, you know, that it kind of puts this
• 44:17
  bullseye on them that people want to come in and see if we're that good.
• 44:21
  So talk about your leadership development program with the salons, because obviously there is something there that works really well, that you have a bench of people that, you know,
• 44:36
  that are really strong leaders and that people walk through a fire for.
• 44:40
  Yeah, I think, I know we're guilty of it, but in the newest book, The Employee Experience Revolution that came out last year by myself and Dave Murray, there's a big chapter about
• 44:54
  developing leaders and it says 82 % of managers are accidental.
• 45:00
  we're all, every business is guilty of that.
• 45:06
  But I've always tried to create a, like you said, a bench of future leaders.
• 45:11
  So from the moment, first I wanted people to realize it could be Denise back when you were starting off, but anyone, that this doesn't have to be a temporary transitional job,
• 45:23
  right?
• 45:24
  You can be a service provider here.
• 45:27
  And if you like that, great.
• 45:28
  You could be the head of the department.
• 45:31
  If you help us grow and we open a new location, you can go open that.
• 45:34
  You want to be the salon coordinator.
• 45:36
  want to be, there's places for you to go.
• 45:42
  even after an employee's 90 days, if they show that they have promise interests, that they're raising their hand for more, we start giving them
• 45:55
  putting me on teams, steering committees, projects, not saying, hey, you're promoted and we have done that.
• 46:02
  And where we have Ag on our face and all those things, but we try to start, you know, easing someone in and giving them some little things to do to see how they do.
• 46:14
  Are they serious?
• 46:15
  Do they do it?
• 46:15
  Do they take it seriously?
• 46:18
  You know, if leadership is something you're interested in, I want you to attend this class, watch this video, read this book and
• 46:24
  and present to the team or your department on how that applies.
• 46:30
  And then obviously how they're modeling the behavior of customer experience and all the other things that are critically important, professional development, all that.
• 46:41
  yeah, I think that, again, with your help, with Eric's help, we've created this feeder system of future generation of employees.
• 46:51
  And like I was in the salon yesterday, I my hair cut.
• 46:54
  And I was just looking at Monica, Monica is this girl that for the rest of us, she was in high school.
• 47:06
  was speaking, Brush High School brought their cosmetology to John Roberts, the first salon.
• 47:15
  And I spoke to them.
• 47:17
  And,
• 47:21
  They, I knew I had them.
• 47:22
  I knew they were mesmerized, right?
• 47:24
  I knew, you know, they're, you know, 16, 17 and 18 year old girls, but I knew I was a good speaker and I knew they were like, you know, like, wow, this is really a cool place and
• 47:35
  I'd want to work here.
• 47:36
  But they were all too shy and nervous.
• 47:39
  And so when, you know, the teacher said, all right, everyone, the bus is here, time to go, you know, 19 of 20 got up and started walking out back door and there's one little blonde.
• 47:49
  knocks all these people down comes up to me and she says I'm gonna work for you.
• 47:53
  And I said okay and it was this little girl Monica and she comes and she starts washing hair at high school then she graduates high school cosmetology and she starts working for
• 48:06
  us and she was the sweetest thing and just rough around the edges and she I believe has I don't think if you ever dyslexia.
• 48:16
  You know, she had, you know, a reading thing.
• 48:18
  And I remember she struggled with things and, know, but she was just so good.
• 48:22
  Well, I'm getting my haircut by her yesterday and she's telling me about how her twins are graduating in May.
• 48:30
  And I'm like, Monica, that was what you were when you came working for us, you know, 25 years ago.
• 48:38
  And, and she's, she's one of our lead educators.
• 48:43
  And it was so cool.
• 48:45
  was I found out the hard way that Monica had a learning disability.
• 48:49
  Because back then when we hired her, with the interview, with the new employee orientation, we'd say, all right, I want everyone to read the policy handbook.
• 49:00
  Denise, you read the first paragraph.
• 49:02
  And Patty, you read the second paragraph.
• 49:05
  And Monica, you read the third paragraph.
• 49:07
  And then when it got to Monica, she struggled.
• 49:09
  And it was really awkward.
• 49:10
  And I was like, god, I felt so bad.
• 49:13
  And so you know.
• 49:14
  And so, what was really cool was last year I went to a new employee orientation and I asked the employees, what made you pick John Roberts?
• 49:24
  And one girl says, I've been going to Monica for, you know, since I was a little girl and I dream of being her and how articulate she is and how she can talk to clients.
• 49:37
  And like, it made me cry.
• 49:38
  Like that was little Monica who couldn't, you know,
• 49:43
  articulate a sentence and now she's this polished educator for us and mom and just a great thing.
• 49:52
  So it's so cool.
• 49:53
  And just looking around yesterday of all these people that are in the salon that take care of education and run the place.
• 50:00
  And it's just so cool.
• 50:02
  mean, it's just a whole new generation of employees, but they're so good.
• 50:06
  And sometimes they can make me feel guilty for how passionate they are and like,
• 50:11
  Yeah, yeah, I feel the same.
• 50:13
  Like they are so into it.
• 50:15
  It's really cool.
• 50:16
  You've created a lot of opportunities for people over the years, and you have people who have graduated to their own businesses.
• 50:27
  So there's a, mean, there have been a lot of, of those, know.
• 50:31
  in fact, I saw, just today, I'm not on Facebook very often.
• 50:36
  I opened it up and I saw one past employee who started their own, acknowledging another past employee who started their own.
• 50:46
  for help along the way.
• 50:47
  And I thought it was so cool to see that there's still that spirit of John Roberts, I think, that still holds, binds a lot of these people together.
• 50:58
  It's really cool.
• 50:59
  Yeah, yeah, yeah, there's something special about, you know, earlier generations and whether they've stayed or they've moved on for whatever reason, there's a bond.
• 51:10
  like, you know, even with me, they'll reach out to me and just, you know, really nice and, you know, supportive.
• 51:20
  You always gave people reasons to stay beyond the education of a hairdresser also.
• 51:28
  I remember you offering classes on how to buy your first home, financial things that because these were young people who were suddenly making really good money for their age
• 51:39
  and to help, you you taught them a lot of things in that regard too.
• 51:43
  It was really, it still is.
• 51:45
  It's, I think it's something unique.
• 51:49
  not just to the salon industry, but to businesses in general.
• 51:54
  Well, listen, people ask me all the time, how do you get employees to show up for work?
• 51:58
  I say, have them buy a house.
• 52:01
  There was some selfishness to it too.
• 52:03
  But yeah, I mean, if you can get people to, you know, buy a house or, you know, be more wise with their money or live a healthier lifestyle, those are the things that they talk
• 52:19
  about more than anything else.
• 52:21
  at the holidays with their family of why they, you know, they work there or they brag about, you know, those kind of soft benefits of like, where'd you learn that?
• 52:31
  Oh, it's actually a class that we had at the slum.
• 52:34
  Why did you, you know, don't you do hair?
• 52:37
  Why did you learn how to eat better or, you know, balance your checkbook or whatever?
• 52:44
  You know, those are the things that, you know, I, I, I've probably said this to you on podcasts before, but, um,
• 52:51
  I always view a competition for employees to be their family members, right?
• 53:00
  And family members get angry with your significant other's job at times.
• 53:08
  Why do you have to work?
• 53:10
  I gotta take care of that.
• 53:11
  I gotta pick up the kids again.
• 53:13
  Why aren't you gonna be home for dinner?
• 53:15
  Why can't we go out?
• 53:17
  I've been on that side of the fence.
• 53:21
  you know, and then they meet other people who own a salon or making, you know, 2000 % commission and they start talking.
• 53:30
  So it was always really important to, you know, get the family members bought in and feel appreciate appreciated for, cause they're making sacrifices.
• 53:42
  Our busy time.
• 53:44
  So, you know, when we have those, like our, our, our, our big events and they bring their
• 53:51
  their family members, recognizing the family members, having them stand up and us applaud them because they, at times of years, they have to make sacrifices so their employee can
• 54:05
  work their tail off and do what they have to do.
• 54:10
  And let's see that's more than just this salon or consulting company or whatever it is.
• 54:17
  you know, that it's really rewarding.
• 54:20
  Something I love to show in my presentations in the employee, retaining employees is about recognizing employees.
• 54:32
  And my favorite thing that I've ever been a part of in the salons is when we put someone on the floor, right?
• 54:41
  You've been there and it's probably happened to you.
• 54:44
  you know, for those of you in the salon industry, you know, you might have to train six months to a year as an assistant doing, you know, it's, it's like a doctor's residency.
• 54:54
  It's, it's not a great job.
• 54:56
  And then you finally get promoted.
• 54:59
  when, we promote someone in the salon, they don't know exactly when they know it's they're coming up, it's going to be soon.
• 55:07
  They, might have to, you know, test out, you know, and so we don't kind of let them know, but
• 55:14
  you know, what we'll do is, you know, someone will say, hey, you know, Trisha go in the back, I need more foils.
• 55:22
  And she goes in the back and I have a picture that I just got sent from the last one that went on the floor.
• 55:28
  The whole family, grandparents, boyfriend, dad, mom, you know, and it's just so cool.
• 55:35
  And it's just such a, you know, they're there and it's a surprise.
• 55:38
  But anytime you can get family members involved in milestones in the employees with the company, obviously gets them more emotionally connected with the company.
• 55:49
  you man, you got a pretty good job.
• 55:51
  I wish my company treated me as well.
• 55:52
  I always remember, I think it was Kelly Ferrara.
• 55:56
  What's her name?
• 55:57
  that her name now?
• 55:57
  Pinchot?
• 55:58
  Pinchot.
• 55:59
  Is that her name?
• 55:59
  I always forget.
• 56:00
  always call her.
• 56:01
  She's been working at our spa.
• 56:03
  She probably almost replaced you 20-some years ago.
• 56:10
  She used to say that when her husband Mike would get the mail, he would tell when she got a caught you doing some right card from someone.
• 56:19
  That's something that we send out, managers send out.
• 56:23
  And he'd get mad because she'd get these caught you doing some right cards and he didn't get them.
• 56:29
  And at work and like, know, those are a good way he'd get mad.
• 56:34
  that is a little bit for for listeners who aren't familiar with
• 56:38
  so we have caught you doing some write cards that anyone, any employee can give to each other, know, you can give up to each other.
• 56:47
  And they do, but our managers are supposed to catch people doing something right constantly.
• 56:55
  And we track that and we will look at it and say, all right, Denise, you have 10 people that report to you, you know, your spreadsheet says, you know,
• 57:06
  who, you know, last time you caught them doing something, it means you sent them a card, you mailed them a card, whatever that may mean.
• 57:12
  But, know, hey, Denise, you haven't caught, you know, Patty doing something right in 90 days.
• 57:17
  I mean, the girl shows up to work every day and brings it.
• 57:22
  So it just puts pressure in an authentic way to catch people doing something right.
• 57:30
  Beautiful.
• 57:30
  Yeah.
• 57:32
  That's it.
• 57:34
  So back to my one thing, talking to college kids or my sons, is I just say go do shit.
• 57:42
  I mean, it's so hard to say, and look at you, you change careers a couple of times and thought, I'm sure change it.
• 57:51
  And to ask an 18 year old or a 22 year old, what do they want to do for the next 40 years?
• 57:57
  And I'm pretty sure.
• 57:59
  I don't know, this would be a good chat GPT thing is, you know, people 50 and older, you know, how many, what's the percentage there are on to a second or third or fourth career,
• 58:10
  right.
• 58:11
  And
• 58:12
  now with technology moving as fast as it is, kids coming out of college, I mean, you could guarantee they're going to have multiple careers in their life.
• 58:23
  Things are going to change so fast you better start thinking about your next one.
• 58:27
  What's your next?
• 58:29
  I got a little more, 30 more years of this.
• 58:32
  I don't want nothing, I love this, I love this.
• 58:35
  mean, I can't believe I get to do this.
• 58:37
  But that's my point is, you know, just go do shit and you'll find something that you're really, really good at that you could make a lot of money for that makes a positive
• 58:47
  impact.
• 58:48
  And that's what you'll gravitate for.
• 58:49
  If I would have gotten what I wanted, I would open a sporting goods store.
• 58:52
  And I'm sure that probably wouldn't have been a great business model.
• 58:56
  I mean, obviously it's, you know,
• 58:58
  Let me know if there's too many left other than Dick's Sporting Good Store, right?
• 59:03
  so, you know, but I wanted to be an entrepreneur.
• 59:07
  I fell into the salon totally by accident and it took off with, you know, the partnership of what me and Stacey brought and then fell into the speaking and that took off.
• 59:21
  And, you know, today I can't believe I get paid to do, you know, any of it.
• 59:26
  When did you know you made it?
• 59:30
  I'll tell you when that happens.
• 59:35
  You haven't had that big moment yet.
• 59:37
  I don't know if you ever do.
• 59:40
  You know, being an entrepreneur, just, you're, you, obviously you've heard of,
• 59:52
  my God.
• 59:53
  Impostor syndrome?
• 59:55
  Yeah.
• 59:57
  I have the opposite.
• 59:59
  I don't know what that says about me, but like I'm mad that I'm not, you know, somewhere like I have so much I still have to do.
• 1:00:08
  you know, I lose sleep at night that, you know, I'm wasting time and I need to, you know, I'm not accomplishing what I was put on the planet to do.
• 1:00:16
  No regrets and no, I mean, I love everything, but.
• 1:00:20
  I don't have imposter syndrome, I have the opposite of like, you know, I'm running out of time and I got, you know, 30 to 40 years left to get the shit done.
• 1:00:34
  What else do I want to ask you about?
• 1:00:36
  I'm trying to think of some of the other questions people have sent in about best advice that you've been given, that you've given someone else.
• 1:00:45
  Have you ever given advice that you regretted?
• 1:00:50
  I'm sure, not that I can think of, but I'm sure.
• 1:00:54
  Entrepreneur is just a different animal.
• 1:00:57
  If we're talking about being an entrepreneur, there relates to a lot of things of just perseverance, but entrepreneur, I do have a quote here about an entrepreneur by Andy
• 1:01:11
  Presella.
• 1:01:12
  He's a podcaster and blogger, and I love this quote that he has.
• 1:01:18
  Most people aren't built,
• 1:01:20
  for entrepreneurship because they can't handle the ups and downs.
• 1:01:24
  They can't emotionally take it.
• 1:01:26
  They can't live with the what ifs and unknowns.
• 1:01:30
  And your success is going to be in direct proportion to the amount of uncertainty that you're able to live with.
• 1:01:36
  So if you're not able to live with uncertainty, you're not able to tolerate the ups and flows and you can't figure out how to get better, you can't do it.
• 1:01:44
  It's impossible because it's such a hard road, like the road to building something real.
• 1:01:50
  I'm talking about building a real company, talking about building something sustainable, talking about building something that you can take care of your family with that's hard.
• 1:01:59
  And there's a reason why most people can't do it.
• 1:02:02
  And it's because they don't have the emotional resiliency to deal with it.
• 1:02:07
  Andy Fasila said that.
• 1:02:08
  And that's where entrepreneurship is.
• 1:02:10
  It's just kind of state of panic and uncertainty.
• 1:02:17
  I don't like
• 1:02:20
  I think sometimes I'm better in that.
• 1:02:26
  When, you know, I just, I have that temperament of when things are not going well, it kind of slows down and I get more focused.
• 1:02:36
  I think when things are going really well is when I have a hard time, you know, because I'm not needed.
• 1:02:43
  You know what mean?
• 1:02:44
  Like I'm needed when things aren't going well and you know, we feel like the ship is sinking and it's like, all right, all right, I'll figure it out.
• 1:02:51
  But when the ship is moving and stuff, it's like no one needs me and everyone's doing just fine.
• 1:02:56
  I like, you know, want to put a hole in the boat.
• 1:02:59
  Like, you know, I like, hey, doesn't anyone need something from me?
• 1:03:02
  So yeah, I just think that's, know, it's definitely a life of uncertainty and things that come at you and it's not for everyone.
• 1:03:12
  You are someone that puts a hole in the boat, pokes the bear, figures out, you know, breaks it, even if it's working to see how we can make it better.
• 1:03:22
  What, where does it come from?
• 1:03:25
  I don't know.
• 1:03:26
  It might be the need to be needed.
• 1:03:27
  I don't know.
• 1:03:29
  I don't know.
• 1:03:30
  But I'm always worried about getting Ubered, right?
• 1:03:33
  I'm always worried about being the next blockbuster and the next Radio Shack, the next Circuit City, next, you know, Kodak.
• 1:03:43
  And it's like, when things are going well, I get really nervous that we're taking our eye off what is around the next corner.
• 1:03:53
  So for an entrepreneur, it's easier when things aren't going well.
• 1:03:59
  For our, my ADD or, you know, I know what I have to focus on, know, having enough oxygen to make it to the end of the week or whatever that means.
• 1:04:14
  But it's when things are going well, I feel like we could be getting content.
• 1:04:20
  in thinking that, you know, and I'm like, man, we don't see what's coming out.
• 1:04:24
  So there's a paranoia too, which,
• 1:04:28
  What makes you paranoid right now about the future?
• 1:04:32
  The unknown.
• 1:04:32
  There's just so much going on.
• 1:04:36
  And there probably always is, but from all the different things happening in the world politically, not saying it's bad or good, it's just a lot of change and we don't know what
• 1:04:50
  the fallout is and the unintended consequences.
• 1:04:55
  AI and the impact that's gonna have.
• 1:04:59
  The thing that really just concerns me is the decline in people skills, the younger generation that went to, had to go to school during COVID, lost out on those
• 1:05:16
  opportunities.
• 1:05:17
  Then they're getting jobs out of school, working from home, which is horrible for their development years and they just, you know, the...
• 1:05:27
  the 20 year olds have the highest depression ever.
• 1:05:31
  Excuse me.
• 1:05:32
  And that's just really scary.
• 1:05:34
  I just was reading an article that I'm writing an article on about how employers and corporate people are firing Gen Z's left and right and everything that's wrong with them.
• 1:05:48
  And
• 1:05:48
  You know, I don't know if, know, it's the same old that you hear they're not motivated at this.
• 1:05:54
  And I don't know, I guarantee you that was said about us when we were entering the workforce or whatever.
• 1:06:00
  But the thing that is concerned is that they don't have the people skills.
• 1:06:05
  They don't know how to communicate.
• 1:06:07
  And that is that, you know, no fault of their own, relationship disadvantage.
• 1:06:12
  you know, really making sure businesses, you know, they're not going to find the
• 1:06:18
  the younger employees with the people skills, there's not enough out them, they're going to have to train them on.
• 1:06:26
  What were you training your younger people?
• 1:06:28
  Because you have a lot of younger people coming into the salon on the people skills.
• 1:06:32
  It's a heavy people demand job.
• 1:06:36
  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:06:37
  Well, it's what the dejulish group teaches, right?
• 1:06:40
  it's, it's, it's, it's, uh, you know, teaching what empathy looks like and empathy is a learned skill.
• 1:06:45
  I mean, didn't have empathy when I was, you know, probably not till I was in my mid to late thirties, right?
• 1:06:52
  I just, you know, had, you know, I didn't know without life experiences, you just look at someone and say, you know, they're f'd up and you know, when, you know, it's their fault
• 1:07:02
  and you know, they should be
• 1:07:04
  you know, getting off their ass or why are they, you know, you know, drink too much or, know, all these things that you just don't understand until you have life experiences or,
• 1:07:14
  you know, she comes in late to work, you know, she's, she's unmotivated.
• 1:07:19
  There might be some serious reasons why she's coming in late where maybe she can't, you know, her car won't make it to work because, you know, she's, you know, cannot, you know,
• 1:07:29
  save enough money to get ahead and all those things.
• 1:07:32
  So,
• 1:07:34
  you know, compassion, empathy, rapport building, how to focus on someone else, be curious, I think that's a superpower.
• 1:07:43
  You know, asking, you know, you should have a four to one ratio of questions asked versus answered.
• 1:07:51
  Keeping it off yourself, not asking a question because you're dying to answer it yourself, right?
• 1:07:59
  Like probably like I did, asking if you're in Florida.
• 1:08:02
  just because I wanted to talk about my trips to the Caribbean coming up, right?
• 1:08:07
  I mean, we're all guilty of that, of asking, how was your weekend?
• 1:08:11
  Good, you wanna know what I did?
• 1:08:12
  And couldn't repeat what the other person said.
• 1:08:16
  Just good listening skills, good empathy skills, good curiosity, focusing on the other person's Ford, family, occupation, recreation and dream.
• 1:08:27
  Do you have a favorite book you recommend for getting to the Gen Zers?
• 1:08:39
  Hmm.
• 1:08:40
  I mean, I did a lot of reading for the our most recent book, The Employee Experience Revolution.
• 1:08:49
  I don't have one in particular.
• 1:08:51
  I'm sure they're out there, but I did a lot of really reading to try to put that in our book of how to motivate the different generations, but not necessarily.
• 1:09:04
  I just think, you know, caring and not thinking that they should be like
• 1:09:09
  you know, their parents and trade hours for dollars.
• 1:09:15
  Listen, you know, they had a front row seat.
• 1:09:18
  It's like, like they, canceled hustle, the word hustle, right?
• 1:09:24
  I was like, what are you?
• 1:09:24
  Okay.
• 1:09:25
  You know, that's the greatest word ever.
• 1:09:26
  And, know, that's what everyone should be doing.
• 1:09:28
  But, you know, then when I researched why I could see where they're coming from, it's not necessarily I agree with them, but
• 1:09:38
  They had a front row seat to see their parents work their tails off two jobs that a lot of them had never paid off financially, right?
• 1:09:51
  Maybe they worked long after they should have, retirement years to the day they died.
• 1:09:58
  And financially it never paid off.
• 1:10:01
  And then you go to the flip side of where it does pay off financially.
• 1:10:06
  That came at a cost.
• 1:10:07
  And usually the cost is relationships at home, divorce, not great relationships with their kids.
• 1:10:17
  Who's to say there we were right and they were wrong or that they're wrong?
• 1:10:22
  So finding the ground that gives them what they want and work should be fulfilling.
• 1:10:33
  We can't avoid that.
• 1:10:35
  Yep.
• 1:10:36
  people can't in their lifetime.
• 1:10:41
  I'm looking at your books behind you.
• 1:10:43
  You have six books now.
• 1:10:46
  Yes.
• 1:10:47
  Which is your favorite?
• 1:10:49
  Huh.
• 1:10:54
  I think the customer service revolution.
• 1:10:57
  I think that's probably my favorite.
• 1:10:59
  They all have a special part.
• 1:11:01
  Secret Service was the first.
• 1:11:04
  I had no idea if I was just telling people what everyone knew and it was just new to me.
• 1:11:10
  And so I was like, and it just, it had a really big impact.
• 1:11:16
  And people still tell me today, 22, three years later that
• 1:11:21
  It's the favorite book.
• 1:11:23
  They make every employee read it.
• 1:11:24
  I'm like, my God, like, you know, don't like that book is so out of date and like, I'm embarrassed, but like, it was just cool.
• 1:11:31
  Right.
• 1:11:31
  So that has a special, a place in my heart.
• 1:11:33
  What's the secret was our consulting business launch, but the customer service revolution seemed to kind of put those all into one thing that that's our highest selling book of all
• 1:11:45
  time.
• 1:11:47
  And the newest one, the Employee Experience Revolution.
• 1:11:50
  is all about internal culture, taking care of your employees, onboarding, recruiting, retaining, developing leaders.
• 1:12:01
  Yeah.
• 1:12:02
  and the relationship economy.
• 1:12:04
  is similar to the customer service revolution, but it's really timely.
• 1:12:10
  It's about building relationships in a digital world.
• 1:12:15
  I think it's great for B2B and salespeople and people, it came out a month before COVID and it was perfect timing.
• 1:12:31
  for COVID, because it's about how to build relationships in a digital age, via Zoom, over the phone, via email, with technology, but not replacing the human person.
• 1:12:47
  Okay, six books, consulting, keynote speaker, the customer experience academy, the employee experience academy, live stream workshops.
• 1:13:00
  What's next for John and the DeJulius group?
• 1:13:04
  I'm asking because I want to know.
• 1:13:06
  Yeah, I was gonna tell you to tell him.
• 1:13:08
  I have to be.
• 1:13:09
  Yeah, that's your job.
• 1:13:10
  You're the managing partner.
• 1:13:13
  Someone just asked on a call with Patrick Thean.
• 1:13:18
  Did say it right?
• 1:13:20
  Thean.
• 1:13:21
  And he asked me what I do.
• 1:13:23
  And I said, know, Denise runs a business.
• 1:13:25
  I'm just out there, you know, kind of the face of it.
• 1:13:28
  But, I don't know, you tell me what's the next thing.
• 1:13:31
  Come on, you still have a very good handle on everything and know everything that's happening and you are the idea generator.
• 1:13:40
  I always say you're like that popcorn machine is like with ideas.
• 1:13:46
  Yeah, I just think it's trying to streamline soft skills to help businesses develop, hire and develop people and bridge the gap between what they didn't get that our generations
• 1:14:07
  were forced to get and help them take on a workforce that
• 1:14:16
  you know, is relationship disadvantaged and give them the people skills, give them the soft skills, give them the service aptitude so that they can execute a world-class
• 1:14:26
  customer experience.
• 1:14:29
  so many people, leaders are so frustrated with, you know, this generation.
• 1:14:34
  And, you know, I think that's a cop-out.
• 1:14:37
  Maybe they need the tools.
• 1:14:39
  Not maybe the generation needs a tool.
• 1:14:43
  Maybe the leaders need the tools for the generation.
• 1:14:45
  But I always go back to the Chick-fil-A and Ritz Carlton's and John Robert's spa hiring from the exact same labor pool that our competition is.
• 1:14:56
  Not paying any better, paying about the same.
• 1:15:00
  And our results, Chick-fil-A's results, Ritz Carlton's results, they got the same 21-year-old who's executing it.
• 1:15:13
  You know, so it's not the generation.
• 1:15:16
  It's what we invest in them, you know, after we hire them and train them and continue.
• 1:15:23
  90 % of an employee's professional development, the average company comes within the first six months.
• 1:15:31
  So if you're going to work at a company for 10, 20 years, 10 % of your professional development comes from six months to, yeah, I mean, that's scary.
• 1:15:44
  That's scary.
• 1:15:47
  10 %
• 1:15:50
  Yeah.
• 1:15:52
  I mean, I'm sure that factors in turnover and all those other things, but, know, and I bet you that 10 % is more for the people who go into leadership roles.
• 1:16:03
  But once people get them up, trained operationally, they kind of, you know, forget about them.
• 1:16:11
  Well, thank you for answering so many things.
• 1:16:14
  Anything else you want to add?
• 1:16:17
  No, thank you for helping me build some really cool businesses.
• 1:16:23
  Thanks for allowing me to be along for the ride.
• 1:16:26
  It's been pretty amazing.
• 1:16:29
  Coming up, we have live stream workshops.
• 1:16:32
  So this episode will air in about a week and people will still have time to join the full live stream live.
• 1:16:44
  mean, there's always an opportunity to join the live stream workshops and get the replays.
• 1:16:50
  But if you sign up now, you can be on all of them live.
• 1:16:54
  start on March 9.
• 1:16:56
  I'll put in a link in the show notes.
• 1:17:01
  Did you want to touch on two hours every quarter?
• 1:17:03
  Two hours every quarter.
• 1:17:05
  It's a great way to get together with your management team and actually work on some of these systems that John's been talking about with the salons that he implemented and that
• 1:17:15
  our clients are using as well.
• 1:17:19
  All right, I know you have to pack for another.
• 1:17:22
  Yeah.
• 1:17:23
  Another trip to warm weather.
• 1:17:25
  Yeah.
• 1:17:26
  Thanks, Denise.
• 1:17:28
  Thanks, John.
• 1:17:29
  See you when I get back.