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9/11: Remembering the Fallen and Lessons for First Responders | Two Volleys and a Guest · Fire Engineering Podcast

• Nat Kapustin: From MSA helmets and streamlight flashlights to seek thermal imaging cameras and so much more, the firestore.com has everything you need to serve your community safely and effectively. Welcome to episode thirteen of two volleys and a guest. My name is Jerry Knapp, your host with my co-host Tim Pillsworth. Today is September 11th. It's around sixteen hundred hours, and we don't have a guest today. We're just gonna share our memories and just some thoughts on nine-eleven. We are we're about thirty miles north of New York City, so we were very heavily affected. Rockland County, my county lost eighty-two. people total, 19 of which were firefighters. so it kind of hit not that it doesn't hit everybody hard, but it hits everybody hard. So Tim, you wanna you wanna kick us off? Yeah, thanks, Jerry. Normally at this point in time, I'd be introducing the guest with their bio to fluff them, pump them up. And this is not a guest today. This is a an event that hit all of us hard. I am about sixty miles north. Of Jerry of New York City, 30 miles north of Jerry in Orange County. And it hit our areas basically as hard. the timeline of the day. American Airlines Flight 11 took off at 759 from Boston's Logan Airport en route to Los Angeles. United Airline Flight 175 took off at 814 from boat Boston's Logan Airport en route to Los Angeles. American Airlines 77 Took off at 820 from Washington Dulles Airport en route to Los Angeles. United Flight 93 took off of 842 from Newark to San Francisco. Flight 11 flies into the North Tower at 846. Flight 175 flies into the South Tower at 903. Flight 77 flies into the Pentagon at 937. The South Tower collapsed at 959. Flight 93 is heroically taken over. And crashes in Sank in Shanksville, Pennsylvania, in a field at ten three. North Tower collapses at ten twenty-eight that day. And that's a timeline of the events of the day which changed, I'm gonna say changed our nation and our lives forever. So I think that change, Tim, continues. this is from the watch line. It's an open source information anti-terrorism summary that comes out of FDNY, which actually our friend Chris Flatley, Captain Flatley. was a big part of for years. But so this is kind of the gift that keeps on giving. According to the watch line, hundred and forty five thousand responders and survivors are enrolled in the World Trade Center Health Program, with more than fifty seven thousand diagnosed with nine eleven cancers and over ninety four hundred having died from the illnesses linked to their exposure. So it's not over. It's not gonna be over for a long time. there's bad people, there's evil people in the world that wanna kill us. They run through the streets shouting death to America so we need to remember that. just a quick memory. I was working at West Point at nine eleven and I was working first battalion, first infantry and our boss was Lieutenant Colonel Jim Rice. And we obviously we heard about towers getting hit and we we gathered up the senior staff and When the tower fell, he looked at me and went, We're at war. Yeah. And I was like, Holy cow. Holy cow. You can say holy shit, Jerry. Holy shit. Just like that, you know? And yeah, like Tim said, things things change. We've all lost people. Tim, you wanna talk about some some folks? Yeah, what's what's amazing is the same thing with my day at West Point. you remember Big Al Zaytowski, a buddy of ours, just monster of a man, very strong, very smart engineer. He was in my cubicle at West Point at the with the engineering brigade and my phone rings and it's my wife. She worked at CNBC at the time. Not jokingly, but hey, you won't believe it's a plane hit the World Trade Center. And everyone thought it was a sightseeing plane or some idiot, whatever it was. I'm like, okay. And then a couple minutes later, she calls me back. You need to get to a TV. We go into our conference room, we put the TV on. We're like, my. And someone went out and got our colonel and he came in soon after the second tower was hit within a minute or so. I think debris was still falling on the screen. And he goes, he goes, We're under attack. And we immediately changed our gears, locking down West Point. We had as an engineer, we moved barriers and all that. And I remember the day, and I I can't remember what I had for breakfast, but I remember every motion of the day, and we finally got home at night. Our day canner was Calling people, are you can he come home and all that? And my younger son was six months old at the time. He is now a lieutenant in the army serving in the infantry. And I do believe that day affected that. And I remember talking to my wife, it was a drill night for us. I went to the firehouse and we stripped and set up an engine. Our county called for volunteers to go down. And we set up engine 322 just in case. And we expected to go. We expected there's gonna be Thousands of people injured and g who's an EMT? Who can go? There wasn't any. the next couple days we're talking who was working. We find out Andy was working at 18 squad. He was a chauffeur. you mentioned the names of or the people that passed away. Only three people I know, and the number small. Peter Grusback, FDNY. He was a good friend of Chris Flatley of ours, and we got to know him through Chris. Michael Shanley, lieutenant from twenty-seven. He was a opposing lacrosse coach of us in Youth Lacrosse, big man, big laugh, you know, fun to play against. And Ray Phillips, he was on rescue three, lived in the next district down for me for a while. And they all died of nine eleven illness. We have friends now that we know that have illnesses because of it. And it's just like it's not, it's like you say it's a gift that keeps on giving with tongue in cheek. the world's changed, Jerry. Then it's just it's never gonna go back. It has. I I think one of the things that that's most important out of today is we need to educate the younger people. you know, if lot there's a lot of people running around that weren't even born when that happened and certainly don't have any memory for, you know, four or five years. so we need to educate them that this, you know, was a terrorist attack. It was an attack on America. It was Unfortunately a brilliant attack. a very unconventional type of warfare. but think out of the box and and and think about how to protect yourself and yeah, it's just just not good. Something in the news I heard on the way home. I listened to a lot of talk radio because the same music I don't l I'm almost sixty, so the new music I want to listen to stuff I grew up with. And one of the things they said, a little bit over ten percent of our population Was born after September 11th. Yeah. Neither my son, my one son was six months old. The other one now is 21, so obviously he wasn't here yet. And the text messages I got today, we call them from the knuckleheads. John didn't think he was gonna do it today because that's the way it's working out for him in college. He's a flight student. But him and Billy and John are going to do a stair climb. And they've been doing it every day on September 11th. And they asked, When's ours? Like, ours is April FDIC. But they understand the importance of remembering Billy's Eagle Scout project supports the Washingtonville Five Memorial. John Sulk's son supports it. And I'll be going there tonight. after this, we'll end probably by five o'clock. I'm gonna quick eat dinner and go head over, get set up. Our Boy Scout troop is there. And one represents a gentleman named Bobby Hamilton, who was on eight 41 squad. I never met him. He was one of the scout leaders in the troop. My boys, Ernor Eaglen, that I scout master in. And I never met him. the old leaders when I first joined talk about him. His son never came back. His son couldn't do Boy Scouts with his dad. And I find that Heart wrenching. I look at Andy Jr. Andy was that was the pride of his his son and daughter were his everything. And they grew up without their dad. And there's thousands upon thousands of kids that didn't grow up with their mom or dad. Yeah, yeah, Tim, I I think that we need to look at what we can do. tunnel to the towers takes care of people, wounded warriors takes care of people. call for call for some money to them, you know. Throw him a hundred bucks, you know. We we owe We own. And one of the most important things, I think we remember it. we we lost someone who what's crazy is people look at Andy Fredericks and how much of an icon he is, a fire god, as we joke about, and you taught him essentials. Yeah. That kind of proves just how old you are. But you know, we we we talk about him in his his popcorn dry fart wick. He would put out a zinger that was so dry that would leave you in tears. But he also respected everybody around him. And he didn't care if you were a big city guy or small town guy, if you had something to say. And that's how I got to know him, you know, talking to him and stuff. And we owe him the connection. We would never met Jeff Shu. Jay Camella. These were guys that. We wouldn't be calling friends today. Yeah, all through FDIC and who you know and this guy knows that guy. And hey, can you come help us with this program? Do this hands-on stuff. Go yeah, that networking thing is is crucial. I think what what really hurts us here, and I'll be personally, is that and this sounds bad, but I'm gonna say it anyway. It's like we could never get away from it. Yeah. Yeah. you know, it I mean it it just it it haunted you then, it haunts you now. we typical family, right? Friday night, a lot of times we'll get a slight we'll get pizza. And the guys the guy that makes our pizza, his wife was killed. She worked in the towers. So it it's just this it's not over. It it's just it just keeps gnawing at you. You know, it just keeps gnawing at you and and you kinda you know as firefighters we we go, okay, we're went to that call, we the person in the car died or you know, we lost a couple of people in a fire. You kinda you kinda get over it, right? I don't say you ever get over it, but but you gotta compartmentalize it. You can't compartmentalize this. It's too big and it's too ongoing. And and we need to be sure that that that the younger people understand what what went on. You know, for my parents' generation December seventh was a day of infamy. Yeah, and what's crazy and I and I agree with you because it's there's people in the town. There was a guy, Paul Ruback. he passed away that day. I'm sorry. He was murdered that day with Andy was murdered and everybody else. I would see him at the transfer station and he would just say, Hey Vile, you had a job last night, you know, or last week and I saw you pass you know. And he'd he'd bust my balls. He'd bust all our balls. But it was all good fun. The idea that we couldn't get away with it, away from it. on the news today they talk about it. If you want to go see things of Pearl Harbor, go on Netflix, or he's a great series. And I've been watching them over the years and it talks about World War Two and you know, kind of lessons learned. Today with these devices, things were s things were basically recorded and and on live TV, we watched the mass murder of thousands of people. I have listened to the tapes of the recordings for the FDNY. I did it once because I wanted to listen to it. I forced myself to, and I'm like, and I'm listening. And you know, Jerry, Andy's on it. He hear him 18 squad. That that's him calling for his guys. we have friends that have survivor guilt. They were late to work. Someone was working their shift. you know, and it's it it bothers me to the point where there's some people that I don't think it we need to move forward, but you can never move on. And some of the stuff in the and I'll don't want to get too political, but in the press the last few years maybe, some of the stuff that's coming out where you know what I'm talking about makes me sick to my stomach. And I'm hoping that gets reversed with the next election cycle for over those people because United States didn't deserve it. So So I think one of the things that that we need to take away from this is is that we need to be a little tougher, stronger, better prepared. we I was very fortunate well working as a civilian for an army, I got a ton of anti terrorism training ironically after nine eleven. we need you need to think out of the box, you know. I had a a friend ask me, you said, If you were a terrorist, what would you do? I th that's pretty easy. I I'd I'd hijack a gasoline tank or truck and I'd drive it into the mall. man, that's hor that's horrible. Think about it. I I only have to overpower one guy or kill him. I take the truck, right? I drive the gasoline truck into the into the mall. Maybe I have to open the gas valves, maybe they don't it's an aluminum tank, so you know, you know it's gonna spill a couple thousand gallons of gasoline. Hey, you've made a big impact and it's that easy with our open society, and and thank God for our freedoms. But there's a price to pay for that. And, you know, we talk about be eternal vigilance and w sometimes you need to think like a bad guy and and kinda plan for that stuff. I think the other thing that's most important too or equally important is what what could what could you do as a firefighter, emergency planner or whatever? Do a threat analysis for your town. What is w what what's the most what's the most dangerous thing could happen? Could you derail a train, you know, a freight train in your town? could could you, you know, shoot up or gas a movie theater like happened in Moscow with the the black widows as a terrorist group, you know. You had the Christmas parade in Wisconsin. Yeah, yeah. The the clown, you know, thinks he's Batman and you know. So and you know, you get a whole think of the mental illness portion too, 'cause now, you know, there's no for better or worse, there's no institutions and these wackos are out on the street, you know, and and guess who has to deal with We do, right? So, yeah, kinda think outside the box a little bit and be prepared and and and pull up your pull up your drawers and and Be a little more ready for these kind of things, you know. make sure your hazmat team is is ready to go and and proficient. Make sure your tech rescue team is is ready to go and proficient rather than yeah, we got a bunch of guys and they come when there's a call. Yeah, no, that set the standard, you know, meet you know, keep that standard. we we need to be ready. So we we can we can mope we can mope about it, but I guess the question the my point for this program is what are you gonna do about it? Do something, you know? Do something, you know, stop it. Yeah, we think about the changes. And if you remember a couple of days after the attack, I'm not sure if you recall, there was a a report that someone stole an ambulance. It was in some place in North Jersey, and they're gonna and then it then it got wild. a bunch of ambulance and they're gonna go blow it up. And our fire department at the time, probably yours, had the open door policy. If you're there, the doors are open. Let the public unless the weather's bad, let the public come in. To this day, we kinda close our doors more often now because It's not just the the the terrorists walking in, but there's enough whack jobs walking around. we're we're looking at calls now differently where it's we don't think it's terrorism, we don't think it's bad, but you you definitely go in with a different sight on things and make sure the police are there earlier than later. And I hate to say this, it's something you have to think about. First responders after that day have become targets. we've had out in western part of New York State on Christmas Day had the the shooting. I think it was one in Cal in Colorado too. And it's an ambush. I mean, I don't I don't know there's a lot you can do, but be vigilant, you know, and just just keep that in the back of your mind, you know. Yeah. And I think one of the biggest things also is is don't be afraid to what's that old ad is your spidey senses that you you get older, like the young firemen don't know enough where it's like, yeah, this thing this far is not going right versus the old guy saying, Mm, out, out now. and I think we need to do that now. And you know, the idea of planning with our towns, a lot of towns are willfully unprepared and you know, it's gonna happen. You know, I people go, you know, they call me like black cloud and stuff, and you know, you're paranoid. I said, I'm not paranoid. I just want to have a little bit of a plan in my pocket, right? When this shit goes down, right? 'Cause while you're wringing your hands going, I don't know what to do, like Timmy said, we should have planned for this. A good emergency planner is going, Okay, here's how we get started, right? Here's how we get started. And and we're going through that in my town now. The when there's an incident that overwhelms the town or or the village or whatever your local jurisdiction is, you think the fire chief is going to be in charge of everything? No, it's gonna be the the the municipal official and he's gonna end up maybe setting priorities, you know, maybe it's a hurricane, right? So the fire department's not gonna take charge of the highway department and police department. So get get your local emergency operations center squared away. use the the NIMS system. It's pretty easy. Use the people that are in your your town or city government, you know, who's gonna be the plans officer, who's gonna be the the logistics guy, who's gonna be the operations guy, who's gonna be the situation unit leader to post the situation so the boss who we all support, right, can go, okay, the first thing we're gonna do is we're gonna open this road so we can get people to the hospital. The second thing we need to do is do whatever it might be, right? So g get your get your and I hate to use, you know everybody says, my God, incident command, they put their fingers in their ears, but get your incident command system squared away. So so when you who's gonna do damage assessment for your town, right? So for a terrorist attack, for hurricane, for a major storm, whatever it might be. who's gonna do who's gonna do damage assessment to get that information back to your your and your ROC may only have six, seven people in it, right? But you'll you'll figure out what you can what you can handle and what you can't handle, where does it go then? Goes up to the next level of government which is the county. Hey county, we need twenty dump trucks with whatever, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And we here's what we need. We're we're exhausted. Maybe the county can supply that. Maybe they can't. And if the county can't, what do they do? It goes up to the state, right? So it but we had during one of the hurricanes here, it was really kind of funny. we went to it was a small community and the mayor was all ticked off. I walked in I walked in and he goes, The c the county's not doing anything for us. Did you ask? I said, Sir, what'd you ask for? we didn't ask for anything. And I shouldn't have said this, but I said, That's what you got. And I said, Tell me Let's let's figure out what you need and I'll help you get it. That's not the way to do business. You know, we know bad things are gonna happen. And I think this is the lesson of nine eleven. You know, the World Trade Center is not gonna fall down again. But if you don't think something bad's not gonna happen to your community, pull your head out of your butt or get out of emergency services because something bad's gonna happen in your community where you need an organized response. And nine eleven's a perfect opportunity to get ready for it. So when I say do something, that's a that's something you can do. Yeah, and I think the one thing we can do also is people that This is not gonna sound the this might come out wrong that live through it. We lived through it because we watched it. We had a w deal with our towns, we had friends lost, is support those that are still around us. And I had someone say, why do we want to go to my marals? I I'm like, You wanna know something? There's still people that are go talk to someone that lost a husband or wife. It doesn't have to be September eleventh, that just lost their husband or wife. Lost their child. They never move on. Never. You hope that they can move forward. I had someone say something to me years ago. I'm like, I can't remember it was at a it was at a f a wake, and you know, I can never move on, but I hope I can move forward. And I can't remember where I heard it from, but it's so true. We'll never move on. But hopefully we can move forward. And the stars of that day, you know, are the learning lessons. And I and I hope that. The communities around the the country realize that it doesn't have to be a terrorist attack. It can be a natural disaster. It can be a man-made disaster, i.e., a tanker truck blows up in the middle of the town. to be prepared for it. But in the worst case scenario, you know, we were talking about what would you do? You'd grab a tanker and drive it into a mall. we were talking about this in one of the classes we I took at work when I was at West Point. I go, I would have a bunch of Lone gunmen go into the mall on Black Friday, little malls across the country. It doesn't have to be New York City. It can be Middletown, New York, Poughkeepsie, Idaho. If they went into a half a dozen malls, if they tried to do a dozen malls and five of them or six of them happened, it would shut down our economy for Christmas. Devastate us. It doesn't take that that big flash in the pan, I don't think could happen again. We hope it can't. But we had guys trying to blow up planes with their underwear, with their shoes. We just stopped taking our shoes off what last year? Yeah. Yeah. You know. D Tim and I had a great opportunity. We were teaching at the Pennsylvania Hazmat Conference and we got to go to Shanksville. Yeah, we saw the memorial and of course it's it's gorgeous. But more important, we got to talk to the volunteer chiefs that were first on the scene. And I I was astounded, I think Tim was too. They they said we we didn't know what we had. Yep. There was a gigantic hole in the ground. And the the plane buried itself into the ground pretty much into a sandy soil area and there was kind of a hole with some debris around it and they knew it was a plane down, but what they s were seeing and what the report was just just didn't make sense. And I I just thought that was so astounding that no I mean not to certainly not to criticize s criticize those guys, but I think the lesson learned at that is that your your size up, you know, really needs to needs to be you gotta have an open mind, I guess, is what I'd say. And I again I'm not criticizing those guys. I wouldn't know what I always said, okay, you know, there's there's a little brush fire going and I was just talking to the assistant chief again when I was there this year and he said we we really kinda figured it out when We found an engine, a jet engine in the woods. It the plane went down near a woodline, kind of an open field and and Yeah, it like about twenty five yards off a woodline. Yeah, yeah. And so then that that kinda confirmed it for and you know, they talked about the the helpless feeling. I I just saw a thing from the first medic that was on a scene and he lined up all these ambulances and everything and you're kinda helpless. So we in the beginning of this program we we we kinda moped about who we lost and all that and and honored them and but I I think there's another important lesson here. That's the mental health part of this. That if you can't you know, we go to ceremonies and and we honor the dead and and and that's great, you know? But that takes a toll on you. I we've been doing that twenty five years in a row now, you know? So i just Again, this is this isn't over. It's not gonna be over probably until this whole generation that was lived through this is gone. and we need to be sure our our our kids n and our grandkids remember it and and know it with the pain that that we felt with it. And then again, inspire them to to be better, harder, tougher, faster, right? To and and then and to have them understand there there's savages in the world that wanna take us back to the fifth century. look, that's the way it is, right? you know, we can sugarcoat and be politically correct about all sorts of shit, right? And what's crazy is after that, a friend of mine from college, she's an oral surgeon now in California. She's Persian. Never call her Iranian. Never call her Iranian. Her family fled Iran in seventy nine. never went back. Her family's probably gone. And she reached out about a week or so after September eleventh. You know, do you know anybody? And I'm like, Yeah. And what she said is, My religion is not that. My religion is supposed to be inside of you. And she went on a rant and I'm very thankful she did. And Seema's a wonderful woman. It what's crazy is it's a religion that's been hijacked by zealots and you know, it's kinda like the Crusades. Yeah, I guess, I don't know. but right now I think the one thing we could do the most is never forget. And For the people that we see, there's some reports in the news, and I don't know if they're true or not that happened. We'll we'll both look into those later. I'm not sure if you heard about them. I'm not gonna talk about If there's political officials that are not doing what they should be doing, their time will be to be removed from office and not let them remember that. It's not a political day. It's a day of remembrance. And after we do the Washington Bowl five memorial tonight, no politicians speak. we have all fire matic people there. We have our boys my Boy Scout troop is there. To do the pledge and take care of the flag, which is in honor of Bobby Hamilton. And then afterwards, I'll go back to the Washingtonville firehouse, number 49, and we'll we'll go back. I'll probably have a beer and you know, smile, laugh, you know, hug and say, Well, guys, next year never forget. And none of us have. And it's an important thing that we don't. During the first Gulf War. I was working at First Battalion, First Infantry at West Point. And I'm not sure who brought these people in, but there was a group of Iranians, obviously, you know, kind of on our side, Iranians, right? And it was an older doctor, he was a retired physician, and they they chatted about how bad things were Iraq. I'm sorry, it was Iraq, and he said, he said, I've seen thirty people killed. between the salad and the main course. I said, Sir, what I don't understand. He goes, It's exactly what I said. we'd be at this large dinner and with a couple hundred people and between after the salad, some people would would get escorted out and we never heard from again a and then the main course came. So Saddam Hussein, you know, evil, evil. The people that People that hit the towers. Evil. They're just evil. And you know, we live in this politically correct society now, which is a bunch of bullshit, be because we need to tell our kids there's evil in the world. And that's what nine eleven was. That was evil. And it's and it's it's a as an American, it's kind of hard to understand that. Like we talk about I've been watching watch the documentaries of World War Two, and I believe Netflix, Paramount, whatever the hell it's on. I think in the future there's gonna be stuff on September 11th just like that. And it's it's gonna show the evil of what they are. the Nazis, how evil they were, the Japanese Empire, how evil they were. And it it was no holds barred. And I and I hope that down the road when this happens, when they put this out, they just not all the people, but those people were evil. And it's not gonna change. Yeah. And we're not gonna change them. And we need to just protect ourselves and our families. And it's something that you know, we talked we had a we had a we had one last night with the the the one before this, and I'm like I I kind of said, Let's do this. And it's maybe a little bit therapeutic for both of us. you know, we've done the stairclim and we ring out the names and you have a you have a lump in your throat. that doesn't change for me and I know it doesn't change for you. You don't you know what I tell you to do, and and these are two things that that I experienced. We We did the nine eleven run traces Steven Still Stiller's route. We where the tunnel of towers came from. He was the fellow who was killed and his I guess his dad no his brother, right, is runs Tunnel of Towers. But but anyway, so mm we start out where near where he did and this has been a f it's probably five years ago I did this, but there's like twenty five thousand runners and and it's just amazing, right? So you come out of the Brooklyn Battery Tunnel, which is just a you know, a pedestrian not a pedestrian, but you know, vehicle tunnel, a highway going out. And when you come out, that there's New York City firemen and they each have a like a sandwich banner, yeah, like a sandwich board with a picture of one of the guys that was killed. And I'll tell you what, you're running up that just a little bit of a grade, you're running up that hill and man, three hundred and forty three of these faces. It is just absolutely haunting, right? It is absolutely haunting. So I'd recommend it it's the last Sunday in September, I think. And I'll tell you what, I I never saw people in New York City be so kind to each other on that day. It is just it is just amazing. And then they have a they had like a block party afterwards and you know, y you if you bump into somebody in New York City, you know, you might get shot, right? But they're like, man, hey, sorry. yeah, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, you know. So I that's something to think about. And go to the nine eleven memorial, the museum. It is absolutely stunning and It does the shows the personal it shows the kind of engineering destruction of the training s the trade center. It shows the human side and it shows just other stuff. And one of the things that stood out in my mind was I think they call it the egg. It's about as big as a Volkswagen and it's just stuff that got smashed together in almost kind of like a big egg shape. And it just I mean there's sh there's shoes in there, there's paper sticking out, there's steel, there there's just everything. So yeah, if you get a chance, go to the nine eleven memorial in New York City. it's great. and just make sure you hit the museum. I mean, it it's just absolutely terrific. When we were there, really interesting. Nobody talked loud. Everybody whispered. I made it to the memorial, the the the fountain, the fountain, the the pools. I threw there, I left a business meeting and I saw it and it was interesting is Bobby Hamilton's name and Andy's name are kind of like this. And I'm standing there and I gotta met I got choked up. And I'm just kind of looking at that. I'm like, I don't know what to do. I don't know what to say. And I took a picture of Bobby Hamilton's name to bring back to my Boy Scout troop. And I took a picture of Andy's name. And I felt a hand on my shoulder, New York City, you're about ready to cold cock somebody. And then this guy comes over and he goes, Who'd you know? And I point I he's like, and he goes, That was my cousin. And we talked for maybe five minutes. And it just, I did check to make sure my wallet was there. It's New York City. But I haven't made it to museum yet. I've I've now gotten to the point where I'm gonna promise myself and my wife would like to go. Heather's remembrance of that, she worked for CNBC and they still had cameras and they had to film what happened. And those cameras are amazing, and they're filming people jumping. And she had a lot of she had a lot of issues with that. But right now, everybody's good. And I'm looking at her time. I think maybe we want to wrap up. My last thought is this, and I know you'll say something. I'm never gonna forget. I'm never gonna forget Andy or Bobby Hamilton, who I never met, the three guys I know that passed. I know the fire service has changed forever, and we cannot move on, but we gotta move forward. And tonight in a little less than two hours time, as I'm looking at the clock, we'll have our little ceremony and we're gonna talk about and I'll see to Chief Sulka will have a couple talks, is ask how my son's known in the army, and we'll all smile and say a prayer and never forget. Yeah, I I think that's the that's the key. Never forget. Teach a teach a kid, teach your your your your child, teach your grandchild about it, teach them about the heroes, teach them about the evil. I I would recommend a book for you. Bill O'Reilly, whether you love him or hate him, he writes the killing series book, read Killing the Killers. It's about some of the most evil people in the world, Malt Saidung, Hitler, Saddam Hussein, those kind of those kind of guys. and it it gives it gives you an understanding of of why we need to be ready, why our military needs to be ready, why why freedom isn't free. Yep. All right. Well, it wraps up episode thirteen, a little shorty, but but good, I hope. And hopefully we shared some thoughts that made sense to you. And God bless America and we're out of here. And next one we'll have a guest and we'll be all happier. God bless America, Jerry. Love you, brother. Absolutely.