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Katie spoke with Mast Builders Chief Executive Dave Malone about vaccine mandates in the industry · 360 with Katie Woolf

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Now, there has been so much discussion, you'd have to say,
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: over the last forty eight hours about the government's decision
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  Speaker 1: to mandate the vaccine, which industries exactly does it include,
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  Speaker 1: How are those industries going to be impacted and what
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  Speaker 1: it means really for a lot of our businesses around
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  Speaker 1: the Northern Territory. Now joining me on the line to
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  Speaker 1: talk about this from an industry perspective. Master Builders Northern
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  Speaker 1: Territory Chief Executive Dave Malone. Good morning to you, Dave.
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: Let's try that again see if we can get this going.
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  Speaker 1: Good morning to you, Dave.
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  Speaker 2: Good morning Katie. How are you?
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, very well, I've got you now, Sorry operator era there, Dave. Now,
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  Speaker 1: obviously the Chief Minister, Michael Gunna made this announcement. He
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  Speaker 1: confirmed that this mandate's going to cover all public facing roles,
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  Speaker 1: including those likely to come into contact with a vulnerable person,
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  Speaker 1: so essential infrastructure, food or essential goods, security or supply
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  Speaker 1: or logistics in the Northern Territory. But it's sort of
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  Speaker 1: the more we talk about it, the more it seems
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  Speaker 1: that most industry are indeed going to be impacted. How
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  Speaker 1: is the building and construction industry feeling at this point.
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  Speaker 2: Katie, Well, we all know that COVID is coming, and
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  Speaker 2: we're all looking for some additional guidance from the government
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  Speaker 2: about what the roadmap reopening would look like. So, you know,
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  Speaker 2: this week, I think we were pleased to see that
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  Speaker 2: the government was stepping forward and starting to set out
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  Speaker 2: what the new arrangements might be. But I think everyone
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  Speaker 2: was pretty surprised when they found out that business would
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  Speaker 2: be the gatekeeper and that they would be the ones
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  Speaker 2: that would be enforcing mandatory vaccinations on their workforce.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah. I've got to say that's one of the things
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  Speaker 1: that peaked my interest when I was listening to that
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  Speaker 1: press conference as it was happening live, and I thought, oh,
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  Speaker 1: that's really interesting because I had assumed that the government
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: would actually sort of list the industries that would indeed
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  Speaker 1: be impacted and sort of go into a bit more
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  Speaker 1: detail about, you know, the potential businesses that were going
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  Speaker 1: to be impacted. The fact that it's now become the
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  Speaker 1: responsibility of business operators, I mean, it must be weighing
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  Speaker 1: heavily on a lot of those business people.
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  Speaker 2: Well, they're certainly searching around for questions and you know,
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  Speaker 2: just like all other industry groups, our phones have rung
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  Speaker 2: hotness people try to work out what this all means.
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  Speaker 2: I suppose the greatest concern that we have is it
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  Speaker 2: pits employees against employees and employers against their people as well.
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  Speaker 2: There's really strong feelings around this. Government's been very clever.
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  Speaker 2: It's made the announcement that we have to move in
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  Speaker 2: this particular direction and then left business to pick up
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  Speaker 2: the pieces around it.
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  Speaker 1: And so, Dave, what are some of those businesses that
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  Speaker 1: are getting in contact with you saying what are their
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  Speaker 1: major concerns here?
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  Speaker 2: Well, I think that've come to grips of the fact
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  Speaker 2: that even though there's quite a lengthy description of who's
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  Speaker 2: supposed to be covered by this particular instruction, the truth
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  Speaker 2: of the matter is that almost everybody is. So it
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  Speaker 2: doesn't matter what role you have, at some point into
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  Speaker 2: somebody who is considered to be vulnerable or you forward
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  Speaker 2: face in some shape or form. So they're going to
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  Speaker 2: need to get their workforce vaccinated by the first dos,
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  Speaker 2: as we know, by the middle of November, and two
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  Speaker 2: doses by just before Christmas. And there are plenty of
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  Speaker 2: employees who've already said we're resigning, we're not doing this,
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  Speaker 2: and so in the middle of this run up to Christmas,
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  Speaker 2: we have all this turmoil inside businesses. We just don't
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  Speaker 2: think it had to be done this way. It's very
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  Speaker 2: much come like a sermon from the mount where we
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  Speaker 2: just get told what the circumstances might be, where we
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  Speaker 2: could have worked together to find solutions to this.
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  Speaker 1: Dave, what is going to happen if you do have
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  Speaker 1: a number of people resign from the construction industry as
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  Speaker 1: a result of this vaccine mandate, Well, the last.
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  Speaker 2: Thing you need is the work is to resign. I mean,
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  Speaker 2: I think we've talked previously about the challenges of workforce
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  Speaker 2: in the NT. There's a no man's land and this
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  Speaker 2: as well, where people go, I'm not resigning, but I'm
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  Speaker 2: not getting a vaccination either. I'm going to sit at
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  Speaker 2: home until you resolve what the arrangements are for me
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  Speaker 2: in the workplace. So it's not as simple as either
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  Speaker 2: you're there or you're not. There's a really big gray
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  Speaker 2: zone as well, and we should have been working on
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  Speaker 2: these issues long before that announcement came out this week.
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  Speaker 1: And what is going to happen for those you know,
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  Speaker 1: for those business owners and operators that have that no
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  Speaker 1: man's land that have that gray zone. If they then
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  Speaker 1: do have to lay somebody off because they refuse to
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  Speaker 1: get vaccinated, are they concerned about the potential legal ramifications.
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  Speaker 2: Absolutely. It's not as straightforward as some people think. The
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  Speaker 2: Fair Work Act puts a lot of obligations on employers
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  Speaker 2: to try and negotiate with their employees to try and
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  Speaker 2: find them additional work, and everything is a case by
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  Speaker 2: case basis. I wrote about this in the paper earlier
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  Speaker 2: this week. But it's not just a There isn't straightforward
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  Speaker 2: steps that you can take. Everything is case specific and
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  Speaker 2: we could have worked on this stuff beforehand. Instead we
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  Speaker 2: just get an announcement, a press conference that says this
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  Speaker 2: is the way it will be, and ten thousand businesses
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  Speaker 2: across the Northern Territory have to scramble to work out
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  Speaker 2: how to do it. It's not the way we should be
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  Speaker 2: working this far into a crisis. Dave.
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  Speaker 1: It sounds as though industry Master Builders included quite upset
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  Speaker 1: that the government actually hasn't tried to work with them
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  Speaker 1: before making this announcement.
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  Speaker 2: I think we're frustrated that we know that we've got
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  Speaker 2: to do the things we've got to do to reopen
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  Speaker 2: our community. And we know that vaccination is the best
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  Speaker 2: way of protecting people, and we know we've got to
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  Speaker 2: find a way through to a point where things are
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  Speaker 2: as normal as possible. So we're not critical of the
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  Speaker 2: government for trying to find a way forward. What we're
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  Speaker 2: critical of is that with eighteen months into a pandem,
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  Speaker 2: the way that we still get all our information is
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  Speaker 2: a political press conference where the new decisions are handed
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  Speaker 2: down and everybody across the territory pedal is really hard.
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  Speaker 2: Surely we can get together and work through this stuff,
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  Speaker 2: identify the loopholes, identify the gaps, and get the best
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  Speaker 2: solution for territoriums.
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  Speaker 1: Why do you reckon they're doing it that way? Why
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  Speaker 1: do you think there isn't that consultation and that discussion
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  Speaker 1: with business beforehand?
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  Speaker 2: To be honest, I don't know. I really don't know.
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  Speaker 2: It's a question you'd have to ask the Chief Minister
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  Speaker 2: and the cho But there's you know, I know in
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  Speaker 2: talking to other industry groups, and I'm sure you've spoken
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  Speaker 2: to them as well, they want to find a way
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  Speaker 2: through this. This situation that we're in right now is
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  Speaker 2: a long way short of being perfect, So we need
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  Speaker 2: to find a way to get as normal as possible,
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  Speaker 2: and I think we've all got a shoulder some of
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  Speaker 2: the responsibility for that, don't get me wrong, but we
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  Speaker 2: can do it better than what we're doing right now.
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  Speaker 1: Dave, just in closing, I mean, what is your biggest
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  Speaker 1: concern right now for your members of the Master Builders
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  Speaker 1: who have obviously found out forty eight hours ago that
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  Speaker 1: there is this vaccine mandate in place, and they're worried.
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  Speaker 1: I'm sure about whether you know they've got employees who
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: they're going to lose. I mean, what's your biggest concern
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  Speaker 1: right now for your members?
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  Speaker 2: Without a doubt, it is about members being a situation
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  Speaker 2: where they're pitted against their own employees, where they have
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  Speaker 2: to go to individuals and say, firstly, are you vaccinated. Secondly,
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  Speaker 2: if you're not vaccinated, you can't work for us, because
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  Speaker 2: we do x YOZ and these people are small businesses.
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  Speaker 2: They're not they're not employing ten or twenty thousand people.
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  Speaker 2: They know every single person personally, they know their families,
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  Speaker 2: and we've been tuned in the gatekeepers when we're supposed
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  Speaker 2: to have the best of employee relations, not the opposite.
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  Speaker 1: Well, Dave Malone, the head of Master builders here in
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  Speaker 1: the Northern Territory. I always appreciate your time. I know
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  Speaker 1: you've got a very busy morning ahead. Thank you very
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  Speaker 1: much for taking the time to have a chat with me.
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  Speaker 2: Thanks for the time, Katie really appreciate it.
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  Speaker 1: Thank you.