Latest / The MOOD Podcast / Q&A: Why Your Photos Might Feel Stagnant (And How to Fix It) - Moments of Mood, 4.2

Transcript

Q&A: Why Your Photos Might Feel Stagnant (And How to Fix It) - Moments of Mood, 4.2 · The MOOD Podcast

• 0:00
  Matt: Welcome to another episode of Moments of Mood.
• 0:03
  Matt: This time it's time for another QA.
• 0:06
  Matt: I reached out to people on Instagram as well as YouTube and my community and gathered together a bunch of questions which hopefully I can answer.
• 0:18
  Matt: And uh this time I've prepared some answers because they're really good questions and I've I've paraphrased a few of them because of quite a few common themes coming up.
• 0:28
  Matt: So um yeah, hopefully you get some value from this.
• 0:32
  Matt: And uh these are just again my opinions on my experience as well as mentoring other photographers and obviously hosting in my community and really observing what people go through and what they've experienced, as well as people on my podcast who are kind of up the the upper echelons of the of the photography world, and so getting a really broad depth and viewpoint and perspective on hopefully a lot of answers and a lot of guidance to the questions.
• 1:00
  Matt: So we have seven or eight questions that I've I've picked from all of the ones that have submitted, and like I said, combined quite a few of them because there's some really underlying common threads here.
• 1:11
  Matt: So without further ado, we are gonna jump right in and answer some of these questions?
• 1:18
  Matt: Okay, question number one is from a very valued community member called Karla.
• 1:31
  Matt: And she actually wrote a few questions.
• 1:32
  Matt: I've I've had to just pick one, but um, which I think is the most prevalent.
• 1:37
  Matt: And that question is is it important that the meaning of a work is translated, seen, and understood by an audience?
• 1:45
  Matt: Or could the meaning remain unseen and still be present in the work, even if the audience finds different meanings?
• 1:52
  Matt: Is this of any importance?
• 1:54
  Matt: Well, yeah, it's not of huge importance, is it?
• 2:00
  Matt: Because we're just talking about making art and art itself is extremely important, but it's not the same as saving lives in hospital or doing incredible charity work that a lot of people do.
• 2:13
  Matt: Um, so when you meet when you say the word importance, we can make our own definition of that, of course.
• 2:19
  Matt: It's important to us and it's important to give people meaning and purpose in this world.
• 2:25
  Matt: So that's why I I chose to hopefully answer this question.
• 2:28
  Matt: So my take is no, the audience doesn't need your meaning.
• 2:33
  Matt: Not at all.
• 2:34
  Matt: What they do need, though, is the charge.
• 2:37
  Matt: Now, by charge, I mean this felt sense that something actually matters in these pictures.
• 2:44
  Matt: It's kind of this tension that pulls the viewer in before they can explain why.
• 2:49
  Matt: That's why I'm drawn to photography.
• 2:51
  Matt: That's why uh a lot of people are drawn to certain photobooks and certain artists, because that charge lives in um the body before it reaches your head, right?
• 3:01
  Matt: It's like your meaning is your why.
• 3:04
  Matt: The meaning is why you made the work.
• 3:06
  Matt: And the charge is this thing that survives the crossing to someone else.
• 3:11
  Matt: So you have this intrinsic meaning, and to be able to translate the charge of that meaning to a viewer is the most important thing.
• 3:20
  Matt: The the pieces of work that I like the most is the sense of charge, but not understanding any meaning.
• 3:27
  Matt: And sometimes, a lot of the point, there isn't an inherited or an intended meaning in these projects.
• 3:34
  Matt: So um, let me break it down a little bit because meaning isn't transmate, transmitted like a message.
• 3:41
  Matt: We think about, oh, we have to tell certainly the emerging photographers, they they think that we have to tell someone something and we have to, we have to, our voice means a message received.
• 3:51
  Matt: But meaning isn't transmitted like a message, it's made at the point of contact between the work and the viewer.
• 3:59
  Matt: So the charge, when we talk about this charge in plain words, it's when the viewer leans in.
• 4:07
  Matt: They stay a beat longer than maybe they're meant to.
• 4:10
  Matt: You know, a bit of curiosity, but there's there's something there, they're not quite sure, they're not quite sure how to put their finger on it.
• 4:16
  Matt: They feel something at stake without, they feel something at stake without knowing what.
• 4:23
  Matt: That makes sense.
• 4:24
  Matt: Think of good analogy here is like a stranger crying on a train.
• 4:30
  Matt: Right?
• 4:31
  Matt: You don't know the story, you don't know the person, but you know it matters and you feel that atmosphere, you feel that that charge.
• 4:38
  Matt: That's what it is, right?
• 4:40
  Matt: So think about that next time you're you're putting some images together because a viewer who finds a different meaning but feels the pressure, feels that charge, has received your work.
• 4:50
  Matt: Isn't it beautiful to think that many people can find different meanings in your work, but find meaning in it, if that makes sense, and find feeling in it.
• 4:59
  Matt: So the charge comes from your own stake in the subject.
• 5:04
  Matt: And if you don't care, the picture can't.
• 5:06
  Matt: And I talk about this all the time.
• 5:08
  Matt: What do you care about and why?
• 5:11
  Matt: That is so important when you're talking about meaning and translating that meaning to a viewer.
• 5:17
  Matt: So um, that also comes in the tension inside the frame.
• 5:22
  Matt: So obviously, the the actual form and the the photograph itself, something I talk about atmosphere a lot with with the community, but something unresolved, something missing, something you left out, or some subtle nuance, or a gaze that's held too long if you're talking about portraits, or something like that.
• 5:40
  Matt: Withheld meaning often gives that work its weight.
• 5:45
  Matt: People can feel when something is being carried, even if they can't name it.
• 5:49
  Matt: That's that's the beauty of it.
• 5:51
  Matt: And we shouldn't carry too much importance for that, but we should be able to identify and give it attention when we're we're making photographs and sequencing and making bodies of work.
• 6:04
  Matt: Because when people over explain, I you know, I shy away from work that over explains.
• 6:10
  Matt: Um, you know, I've talked about explanation and articulation before on the podcast.
• 6:14
  Matt: We don't want to over explain because what that does is just kill the charge.
• 6:19
  Matt: You know, documentary photographers may disagree with that, but even the best documentary photographers, in my opinion, will document something, but will still leave, will still carry charge with it and not over-explain too much.
• 6:33
  Matt: You know, we talk to we talk all the time about pictures explaining and pictures um um doing the talking for themselves.
• 6:43
  Matt: Yes, that is much more powerful than over-explaining too much, but often images can over explain too much, maybe too explicit, too overt in their in their display.
• 6:54
  Matt: So, yeah, I mean, different readings aren't a failure, right?
• 6:58
  Matt: You know, we're all different, we all have different viewpoints here, but the different readings of your work are proof that the work is open enough to live in other people and live in different people.
• 7:10
  Matt: So the meaning that you hid or you've kind of buried in there somewhere isn't wasted because it it manifests as charge and it shaped every choice that you made, right?
• 7:20
  Matt: And those choices are always visible.
• 7:23
  Matt: So, um, yeah, I mean, there's obviously like caveats that are coming to my head now, but when there are real people in the frame, then there's third meaning in the room, which is theirs.
• 7:35
  Matt: So, you know, I guess we can overthink this and we can add layers on onto it.
• 7:39
  Matt: But a viewer misreading you and misreading that is absolutely fine, in my opinion.
• 7:44
  Matt: A viewer misreading the people you photographed in a way that costs them dignity is a failure of form and it's yours.
• 7:52
  Matt: So protect their meaning and let go of yours.
• 7:56
  Matt: And, you know, maybe things like writing down in one private sentence what your current body of work means to you, don't publish it, but it's it articulate it, let it sit under the pictures, see if those pictures resonate with what you wrote.
• 8:12
  Matt: Maybe you show a selection of pictures to just a few people with no context, maybe 10 images to three people with no context, and just ask them which one did you stay on the longest?
• 8:23
  Matt: I did this with a community member the other day and he threw a load of images at me, but there was just one that's one that sat and I kept coming back to.
• 8:32
  Matt: Don't ask too many questions why, but that is someone's voice.
• 8:36
  Matt: And you can then you can start breaking down the meaning and the charge behind it.
• 8:41
  Matt: Um, because where they stay the longest is where that charge is.
• 8:44
  Matt: That's really important to identify.
• 8:47
  Matt: And then you start to build the edit, build your body work around that.
• 8:51
  Matt: So many people are scared of sharing, but there's so much use in sharing, and it's a very vulnerable thing to do.
• 8:58
  Matt: But things like this is really where you start to shape your voice because you get something back.
• 9:03
  Matt: So to answer your question, go ask people, go go share and go and see what comes back.
• 9:09
  Matt: Hopefully that's answered your question.
• 9:11
  Matt: But let's let's let's go on to the next one.
• 9:14
  Matt: Second question is um I think I think from a community member, but I've kind of paraphrased it.
• 9:21
  Matt: Um, can a work have depth and be really meaningful if it's done quickly?
• 9:26
  Matt: A project of a few days compared to a few years, maybe.
• 9:30
  Matt: Yeah, this came up also community.
• 9:33
  Matt: We did a photo critique um with a lady that uh did a project of work uh just over a few days, went up into the cabins in the hills in the country just for a long weekend or a weekend, and built this beautiful edit um from it.
• 9:52
  Matt: So we hear all the time about a lot of the photo books that take so long to take people's lifetime, sometimes 20 years, to make um until they understand what it's about and collated essentially their archive and made sense of it.
• 10:07
  Matt: But I think we need to lean in more to the the faster projects.
• 10:12
  Matt: It's more of kind of like a snapshot in time.
• 10:15
  Matt: So, yes, um absolutely can it be meaningful if it's done quickly?
• 10:20
  Matt: Yes, it is more difficult.
• 10:22
  Matt: Um, but depth comes from somewhere, right?
• 10:27
  Matt: In a long project, that depth comes from time.
• 10:30
  Matt: It's almost like organic in that respect.
• 10:32
  Matt: In a short project, it has to come from something that you bring with you your preparation, your history with the subject or location, and a clear, clear question just comes back to what you actually care about.
• 10:45
  Matt: So a few days can be deep if you've been gravitating towards that subject for a while, and then you you kind of shoot it in a in a in a quick time.
• 10:56
  Matt: Um a few years can be shallow if you never ask anything new, or you don't know, or you just kind of scattered all over the place, right?
• 11:05
  Matt: So time isn't depth, but attention is.
• 11:10
  Matt: So it really matters how how the the quality of your attention and where you're aiming that attention, because time just gives attention more chances.
• 11:18
  Matt: You've just got more chances to aim that attention at the things you care about.
• 11:21
  Matt: The short project is a different form, of course, but not a lesser one.
• 11:27
  Matt: It's like a poem isn't a failed novel.
• 11:29
  Matt: It's just a it's kind of a different take on things.
• 11:33
  Matt: Um, and the short projects are deep when the photographer already arrives carrying some kind of question, right?
• 11:42
  Matt: Some kind of, you know, this this example in our community of the photocritique.
• 11:46
  Matt: They went into the cabin in the woods asking the question can I be there alone?
• 11:53
  Matt: Like there's no one else around, there's not even utilities there, they're completely alone.
• 11:58
  Matt: And they asked that question to themselves.
• 12:00
  Matt: Can I can't, you know, what's that experience gonna be like?
• 12:03
  Matt: I'm interested in finding out.
• 12:04
  Matt: I'm gonna focus my attention on that, on that experience of being completely alone without any distractions for multiple days.
• 12:14
  Matt: And I'm gonna try and photograph it.
• 12:16
  Matt: So look, the days, um the days when you're shooting in the field, they're short, but the years before them aren't.
• 12:26
  Matt: So you can, you know, you've got to carry that your own voice into those short projects with you, right?
• 12:32
  Matt: Because your your whole life is research for the four days or two days or one day that you shoot, right?
• 12:38
  Matt: Um, the other good thing about short projects is they force decisions, kind of constraint.
• 12:43
  Matt: Talk about constraints all the time as well.
• 12:46
  Matt: There's no, oh, I'll come back and get this.
• 12:48
  Matt: I mean, maybe there is, but maybe you don't live there.
• 12:51
  Matt: Um, or maybe there's a specific moment in time you can only capture once.
• 12:56
  Matt: Um, so you can't a lot of the time you can't go, well, I'll go there next month, or I'll just leave that one off.
• 13:01
  Matt: That that pressure can really sharpen you and sharpen your perspective.
• 13:06
  Matt: So um there's obviously inherent risks with this, like surface level stuff.
• 13:12
  Matt: So with little time, you kind of tend to photograph what's obvious to you without really kind of going into other layers.
• 13:21
  Matt: Um you know, you end up photographing the first layer that everyone sees a lot of the time.
• 13:26
  Matt: Well, that's the that's the danger if you're not kind of used to that.
• 13:30
  Matt: Um, but long so the other thing is long projects give you something that short ones can't, and that is change.
• 13:37
  Matt: Change of yourself, change of your environment, change of the subject matter, people age, places shift, trust grows, time becomes part of that subject.
• 13:48
  Matt: Um, and you can flip that, of course, in a short project.
• 13:51
  Matt: You can you can make that um, you know, a real like quick snapshot of time.
• 13:56
  Matt: You can you can have a temporal element to it.
• 13:58
  Matt: So it's just kind of the way, the way you think about it.
• 14:00
  Matt: So I don't know if that answers your question either, but maybe uh before your next short project, if you're gonna use that as a constraint, or that's kind of the way you have to work, just write a question that you may want to try and answer, or you may want to expose during that work.
• 14:16
  Matt: Not necessarily a theme, but a question.
• 14:19
  Matt: Question that you can explore and ask yourself throughout that short period of time.
• 14:27
  Matt: Then spend twice as long preparing for those few days as shooting.
• 14:32
  Matt: So maybe read, look at work on the subject.
• 14:36
  Matt: If there is any other work on the subject, talk to the people who know the place or know the other people or whatever you're shooting, right?
• 14:43
  Matt: And then set a very hard container.
• 14:45
  Matt: So let's say three dollars.
• 14:48
  Matt: If you're analog shooter, maybe just three rolls, one roll a day.
• 14:52
  Matt: Um, stick to one location.
• 14:54
  Matt: Or if you're digital photographer, like shoot, you know, put a number on it, like 50 shots, 30 shots, okay?
• 15:01
  Matt: And then the same with the edit, right?
• 15:03
  Matt: Just be tight with everything.
• 15:04
  Matt: You know, the whole thing is tight.
• 15:06
  Matt: So you, you know, having a having a body of work for those three days or whatever, however many days that's expansive is not gonna fit the the actual idea around around the project.
• 15:18
  Matt: I I feel like I'm digressing here, but um hopefully that answers your question.
• 15:24
  Matt: Uh the the question was can a work have depth and be really meaningful if it's done quickly?
• 15:29
  Matt: Yes, absolutely.
• 15:30
  Matt: It's just you'd have to rephrase it, right?
• 15:33
  Matt: It's a just a restructuring of what we consider as as depth.
• 15:37
  Matt: Go into it with intent, go into it with a question, and you'll find that depth for sure.
• 15:42
  Matt: Okay, third question.
• 15:44
  Matt: Here we go.
• 15:45
  Matt: Um this was asked by I think someone on Instagram called Save a Moment, but it's been um a common theme for a long time now that I I get asked.
• 15:55
  Matt: So I'm gonna do my best to give a succinct answer to this.
• 16:00
  Matt: Question is what brings you back from that stagnant feeling?
• 16:04
  Matt: I'm shooting 45 years and still feel it.
• 16:07
  Matt: Well, we all get this, and I'm sure I'm sure it's mostly cyclical, but if you're getting this all the time, then maybe stagnation isn't necessarily the absence of pictures.
• 16:19
  Matt: I mean, I don't know how much you're shooting.
• 16:22
  Matt: I think you're your professional shooter, if I remember rightly, that you're, you know, you're shooting a lot.
• 16:27
  Matt: Um stagnation isn't necessarily the absence of the pictures, it's more the absence of a question.
• 16:34
  Matt: So after 45 years, your hands know everything like there's there's no nothing you really need to learn that's technical or that's process-driven or that's with your workflow.
• 16:48
  Matt: That's the trap.
• 16:50
  Matt: And I get it, it becomes so kind of monotonous in a way.
• 16:53
  Matt: What brings me back is taking something away or changing the question I'm asking, or just having that attention and awareness of things changing throughout my life.
• 17:04
  Matt: I'm a different person every single day.
• 17:06
  Matt: Things come and go all the time that you know life is impermanent, impermanent in everything we do.
• 17:12
  Matt: So I want to be able to notice that and be aware of it and latch on to these things if I need to, and make sure I'm not just changing gear to try and find something new.
• 17:23
  Matt: Never ever works.
• 17:24
  Matt: Okay.
• 17:24
  Matt: So look, some relief for you being stuck or feeling stuck after 45 years means that you still care.
• 17:32
  Matt: You know, I love it.
• 17:34
  Matt: And it's such a great question.
• 17:35
  Matt: It could be 45 years, it could be 10 years, could be five years, could be 10 months, you know, just it depends.
• 17:40
  Matt: Intensity depends on on your lifestyle.
• 17:43
  Matt: Because indifferent people don't feel stagnant.
• 17:47
  Matt: They're just comfortable with it, right?
• 17:49
  Matt: Skill becomes this groove and then it becomes a rut.
• 17:53
  Matt: And we go in these cycles, and it's not just photography, it's throughout life.
• 17:57
  Matt: You know, think of relationships, right?
• 17:59
  Matt: You can make a good picture without being present at all.
• 18:03
  Matt: I talk about this all the time.
• 18:04
  Matt: And I'm sure you have made amazing photos.
• 18:08
  Matt: I did look at your page.
• 18:09
  Matt: Um, wonderful photographer.
• 18:12
  Matt: Um, but good pictures on that autopilot are the real danger, and think that's what you're kind of identifying here because they look like pro progress and feel like nothing a lot of the time.
• 18:22
  Matt: And this is common with commercial photographers who who are day in, day out working with their photography.
• 18:28
  Matt: Um, but can constraints.
• 18:31
  Matt: So, you know, you can bring constraints into the commercial environment as well, but you know, maybe not if you're not used to it.
• 18:37
  Matt: But constraints, certainly in the personal projects, break that autopilot.
• 18:41
  Matt: Whether it's the physical constraints, like one lens, one role, one street, one location, or one color.
• 18:47
  Matt: The mind has to wake up to solve it.
• 18:51
  Matt: Or maybe it's a more of a metaphorical constraint or this the story or the subject matter or an idea or a feeling or um whatever it might be, just try and introduce something like that.
• 19:05
  Matt: Constraints always lead to more freedom and sh and will eventually open that stagnation up.
• 19:11
  Matt: But you can also just change the question or introduce a question if you if you haven't had questions before, you know, that that's that surround the this subject of meaning and purpose that's going to break you out of that stagnation.
• 19:26
  Matt: So stop asking necessarily what is a good photo or what can I shoot, or I can't be bothered, why can't I be bothered?
• 19:36
  Matt: Or I don't know where to go, I don't know what to shoot, I don't know what camera to use, I don't know what location to go to, I feel like I've done everything, I'm in a rut.
• 19:45
  Matt: Stop asking how to do that, and ask what don't you understand yet?
• 19:54
  Matt: So, what is that, you know, if you if you're gonna sit here across from me and say, I understand everything, I will call you a liar.
• 20:00
  Matt: You know, we it's even with 45 years camera, I would argue there's plenty out there that you don't understand yet, and uh uh more so yourself.
• 20:09
  Matt: Like look it, look inward.
• 20:11
  Matt: We don't want to be too self-aggrandizing here when it comes to our work, but that's always the easiest and first place to look.
• 20:20
  Matt: Um, you know, Richard Sharum, I had on the podcast, always talked to uh uh about the window and the mirror.
• 20:26
  Matt: He believes that if you look through the window, it eventually comes around to being a mirror anyway.
• 20:31
  Matt: So if you look at an external story or narrative or subject, ends up becoming the mirror in the way that you go about doing that and the way that you express it, right?
• 20:39
  Matt: Which I I agree with up to a certain point.
• 20:41
  Matt: If you're stagnant, the the first place you want to go looking is yourself.
• 20:48
  Matt: Ask yourself questions.
• 20:50
  Matt: Why am I doing this?
• 20:51
  Matt: What do I enjoy about it?
• 20:52
  Matt: What do I care about?
• 20:54
  Matt: What's my daily routine like?
• 20:56
  Matt: Who are the people around me?
• 20:58
  Matt: Um, why now?
• 21:00
  Matt: Why am I feeling stagnant now?
• 21:02
  Matt: Um, write about it.
• 21:03
  Matt: Go for walks and meditate upon it.
• 21:07
  Matt: Um, just keep asking yourself those types of introspective questions, right?
• 21:14
  Matt: So those are where the answers are.
• 21:17
  Matt: And that's where you start to feel kind of what questions you might have and what you might realize that you don't understand yet.
• 21:24
  Matt: So um, the other way of doing it, I guess, is to just go and make pictures, just go and make bad pictures on purpose.
• 21:32
  Matt: Beginners aren't stagnant, right?
• 21:33
  Matt: If you're you're the opposite end of a beginner, beginners aren't stagnant, they're just lost.
• 21:38
  Matt: They they they've got so many things they want to do and they don't know where to turn, and end up, they end up shooting a lot of photographs that they don't understand how it happened or it doesn't look the way they intended, right?
• 21:50
  Matt: You're the opposite of that.
• 21:52
  Matt: But try and bring yourself back to that childlike mentality and that beginner mentality where you Be shit, right?
• 22:02
  Matt: Just make bad bad pictures.
• 22:04
  Matt: Something might might just get juggled up from that.
• 22:07
  Matt: And then look outside photography.
• 22:09
  Matt: I don't know if you do already, but I get a lot of my inspirations from the the poetry world and the music world.
• 22:16
  Matt: Uh that you know, I'm not really into painting that much.
• 22:20
  Matt: Uh I guess I'm into cinema.
• 22:22
  Matt: Um, there's just too much shit these days in in cinema, but you have to kind of work hard to find the good stuff.
• 22:28
  Matt: I get a lot of refill in my eye from those types of mediums, um, as well as the podcast, right?
• 22:35
  Matt: So I kind of do other things and put myself immerse myself in other mediums that hopefully will, through osmosis, I guess, kind of permeate my subconscious and give me a little bit of inspiration.
• 22:48
  Matt: Um, the other thing I do a lot with my community and and through the course that I have on there is revisit your archive.
• 22:55
  Matt: So four to five years of shooting, or 10 years of shooting for those of you listening, or whoever, go.
• 23:01
  Matt: There's a lot of questions that remain unseen in your archive.
• 23:07
  Matt: And there's a lot of answers in there as well.
• 23:09
  Matt: So it would always go and revisit your archive.
• 23:11
  Matt: Old pictures, new eyes.
• 23:13
  Matt: It's that simple.
• 23:14
  Matt: Um, sometimes this project that you need is already sitting there, and guaranteed there's one or two in your archive if you've been shooting for over four decades.
• 23:24
  Matt: Um, and just kind of have faith.
• 23:26
  Matt: I mean, it's easy to say, um, difficult to do to have faith that that you'll come out of that.
• 23:34
  Matt: But, you know, remember that fields lie fallows so that they can be grown again.
• 23:39
  Matt: And there there is a there is a way out of that, and you clearly still have the desire to get out of that.
• 23:44
  Matt: So um shoot, shoot me a message, shoot me a message, and we can potentially spitball some some ideas there because I don't I don't feel I I know you enough to really answer that question uh as best as best as I can for you.
• 23:57
  Matt: Okay, number four.
• 24:00
  Matt: Asked by um Stephanie Pomez, I think.
• 24:04
  Matt: But again, uh uh this is asked uh a lot as well.
• 24:09
  Matt: Um would love to hear you talk about photo um would love to hear you talk about photography as a practice that spills over into other mediums.
• 24:16
  Matt: Well, I just touched upon other mediums, but um, I think about photography not really being the medium.
• 24:24
  Matt: I think about attention being the medium.
• 24:25
  Matt: The camera is just a way of holding it.
• 24:28
  Matt: So once you train your attention through photography, it leaks into everything.
• 24:34
  Matt: How you cultivate your relationships, how you write, how you listen, how you edit a conversation, um, how you edit anything, how you speak to other people, how you notice the beautiful things in life, how you choose to spend your time, how you learn to be present.
• 24:55
  Matt: All these types of things.
• 24:57
  Matt: Um, but the traffic goes both ways, right?
• 24:59
  Matt: Photography trains three muscles: noticing, framing, and choosing.
• 25:07
  Matt: None of them belong to the camera, right?
• 25:10
  Matt: So with noticing, once you see light or you see something that you want to shoot, you end up seeing it everywhere.
• 25:18
  Matt: You know that feeling, right?
• 25:19
  Matt: So in a room, on a face, in a sentence, whatever it might be.
• 25:23
  Matt: And with framing, every medium is a decision about what's in and what's out.
• 25:29
  Matt: Photography, more than anything.
• 25:32
  Matt: A paragraph is a frame, a stanza is a frame, a chorus is a frame.
• 25:39
  Matt: And then with choosing, you know, in the edit, most art is most voices and most art is just deciding what to leave out.
• 25:49
  Matt: You know, we all have too much that we want to put in, but deciding what to leave out is just so, so important.
• 25:56
  Matt: So spilling over into other mediums is, I mean, for me, it's spilled over into this podcast.
• 26:04
  Matt: So editing a conversation, and not that we edit too much, but like putting together a trailer or you know, putting together the podcast um is like sequencing a photo book for me or a body of work.
• 26:15
  Matt: What's it, what sits, what sits next to what, where the silence goes, how I host, like how I structure a conversation, how I um, especially with a guest, how I formulate hopefully a flowing conversation that gives value to people.
• 26:32
  Matt: There's there is um that is where kind of the photography side of things spilled over, right, in in into the podcast.
• 26:43
  Matt: Um, hosting is kind of a form of portraiture, right?
• 26:46
  Matt: You're waiting for the moment where someone drops that performance so that you can you can jump in and capture that moment.
• 26:53
  Matt: Um writing, it spilled into writing for me.
• 26:56
  Matt: It it works both ways.
• 26:57
  Matt: So it spills out and then obviously spills in.
• 27:00
  Matt: You have to be able to go out there and be educated in other art forms, other mediums, get inspirations like I talked about before in the previous question.
• 27:08
  Matt: Get inspirations from other art forms all the time.
• 27:12
  Matt: They will deepen your artistic expression, they will give you more ideas, they will um expand your creative abilities without a doubt.
• 27:23
  Matt: So with those mediums aside, I also think it spills into life and life spills into photography, of course, right?
• 27:31
  Matt: Again, it's just this um membrane.
• 27:35
  Matt: You know, Christina Mittermeier always talked about membrane us being the membrane.
• 27:38
  Matt: And the membrane between life, and we include other mediums in that, and photography, it goes in and out, in and out all the time.
• 27:47
  Matt: And it's just up to us to be aware of that, right?
• 27:49
  Matt: And to let it in and let it out, and to try and open our arms as wide as possible to let as much in as possible, right?
• 27:56
  Matt: And the other way, to let as much out as possible.
• 27:58
  Matt: Because photography spills into life, right?
• 28:00
  Matt: Of course, like the pause before someone speaks, the edges of a room, the quality of us listening, the ability to be to be comfortable in silence, or the ability to be comfortable by ourselves for elongated periods of time, um, how people hold their hands, how people give you eye contact.
• 28:20
  Matt: I mean, there's so much that photography spills into, and again, vice versa.
• 28:26
  Matt: Um, because the reverse matters too.
• 28:28
  Matt: Like I said, other mediums feed your pictures.
• 28:30
  Matt: Poetry teaches compression, film teaches sequence, um, painting teaches color and composition.
• 28:40
  Matt: Um, yeah, I mean, there are many, many examples, I guess.
• 28:45
  Matt: Uh, but just be open to it and immerse yourself in it in as much as possible.
• 28:49
  Matt: Um, because many photographers get stuck when they feed only on photography.
• 28:54
  Matt: This is the social media um problem as well.
• 28:57
  Matt: You know, people, the algorithm drives people to what they like.
• 29:01
  Matt: So they don't have any nuance and they don't have any discernment about other things in the world, basically.
• 29:10
  Matt: But when you you kind of analogize that to photography, many people, many photographers get stuck because they are so focused on photography and they just they all they um look at is photography, all they immerse themselves in and absorb is photography.
• 29:26
  Matt: I would argue do the opposite, right?
• 29:28
  Matt: And I've you know, having the privilege of sat across with many, many of the best photographers around, they have inspirations that they obviously have inspirations in the photography world, but they have arguably more inspirations in like the music, poetry, literature world than they do in the photography world.
• 29:46
  Matt: So I don't know, maybe that tells us something.
• 29:49
  Matt: Okay, uh, on to the next question.
• 29:53
  Matt: Um, this is from Neil the Art, Neil P the Art.
• 29:58
  Matt: Um, again, multiple people asking similar questions, but um his his was the best one, I guess.
• 30:05
  Matt: What do you see when you capture any moment?
• 30:08
  Matt: Is it different from your photographs?
• 30:11
  Matt: So this is uh an interesting question.
• 30:16
  Matt: What do you see when you capture any moment?
• 30:18
  Matt: Is it different from your photographs?
• 30:20
  Matt: Yes, I mean always different.
• 30:23
  Matt: Remember, we have our perspective with our eyes and our brain interpreting what's being the colour and the light that's being processed by our eyes and our brain is so much more deep and complex than what we capture in this tiny little frame that we edit um into what's called a photograph.
• 30:45
  Matt: Um you also have these feelings and emotions, and you know, if if anyone's experienced kind of that flow state, then you can't capture that in in a photograph.
• 30:57
  Matt: You can attempt to, but that's why we say enjoy the process, right?
• 31:01
  Matt: Really enjoy that process.
• 31:03
  Matt: Have awareness, like practice awareness, practice mindfulness.
• 31:07
  Matt: You'll enjoy it so much more, and you'll be able to kind of like your eyes will be widened even further.
• 31:13
  Matt: So I'm digressing there, but what I see when I'm, you know, head in viewfinder and I'm capturing a moment is always different from the photograph.
• 31:24
  Matt: But I'm I'm I'm happy about that.
• 31:27
  Matt: Like these imitable moments, inimitable moments are inimitable.
• 31:32
  Matt: Right?
• 31:33
  Matt: That's the beauty of them.
• 31:34
  Matt: That's the impermanence of them, and that's where the beauty really lies.
• 31:38
  Matt: Um, a photograph is just a way to frame that, essentially.
• 31:41
  Matt: Because the photograph keeps a rectangle, right?
• 31:44
  Matt: And just throws the rest away.
• 31:46
  Matt: That loss used to frustrate me when I was beginning.
• 31:50
  Matt: Um, now I actually think it's the point.
• 31:52
  Matt: I I think it's the whole point.
• 31:53
  Matt: The gap between what I saw and what the picture holds, that gap is where the art happens.
• 31:59
  Matt: That is that's where the true beauty is in this mesh of the unknown, where the magic, magic truly happens.
• 32:09
  Matt: Um so yeah, I mean, in the moment, I'm getting all my senses, right?
• 32:14
  Matt: I'm getting sound, heat, smell, history, what happened five minutes ago, what I could, what I'm planning maybe to do in the next frame or the next setup or the next shoot.
• 32:25
  Matt: Um, I mean, so so many things, right?
• 32:28
  Matt: That go into the moment.
• 32:30
  Matt: Um, and of course, the picture just doesn't get any of that.
• 32:34
  Matt: The photograph is silent.
• 32:36
  Matt: It's still, it's flat, it's cropped, it's a translation more than a copy, right?
• 32:44
  Matt: Um, that's why so many pictures disappoint us.
• 32:48
  Matt: So many of our own disappoint us.
• 32:51
  Matt: We remember the moment, then we look at it, especially with beginners, right?
• 32:53
  Matt: I talked about this earlier.
• 32:54
  Matt: We remember the moment and then look at the frame, just go, fucking hell.
• 32:58
  Matt: The fuck is that?
• 33:00
  Matt: Um, it's just so much thinner.
• 33:03
  Matt: Uh yeah, I, you know, we we all still have that.
• 33:06
  Matt: Um but that disappointment is useful.
• 33:09
  Matt: There is a utility to it because it tells you the moment's power wasn't visual.
• 33:14
  Matt: It was just context.
• 33:16
  Matt: Um, and the good pictures don't recreate any moment, right?
• 33:21
  Matt: Henri Cartier-Bresson talked about the decisive moment all the time.
• 33:24
  Matt: He didn't mean this.
• 33:26
  Matt: He didn't mean like you were replicate a moment.
• 33:30
  Matt: He just means you're capturing that moment as a microcosm of the experience of that moment, right?
• 33:39
  Matt: So good pictures don't recreate the moment.
• 33:42
  Matt: And we don't need we don't want to try and recreate the moment.
• 33:45
  Matt: Then we're trying too hard, and then we're trying to give answers to questions we haven't even uh asked yet.
• 33:51
  Matt: But those good pictures make a new one, a new moment for someone who wasn't there.
• 33:56
  Matt: And that is the beauty of it, right?
• 33:58
  Matt: So I've stopped, I stopped a long time ago trying to record kind of what I saw.
• 34:04
  Matt: Um, I just try to make a picture that holds that charge that we were we were talking about before.
• 34:10
  Matt: Sometimes that means photographing something other than the main event, um, or what you had intended to do.
• 34:16
  Matt: The hands, maybe not the face, right?
• 34:18
  Matt: Or the room after people leave.
• 34:20
  Matt: So yeah, I don't know if hopefully that helps, but if a picture only matches the memory, it's it's a souvenir.
• 34:28
  Matt: It if it becomes something else, it's uh a piece of art, right?
• 34:32
  Matt: Um, yeah, hopefully, hopefully that helps.
• 34:38
  Matt: Okay, uh, next question um from my friend and community member Anna maria.
• 34:44
  Matt: What were the small steps that took you where you are now, the ones that nobody saw?
• 34:49
  Matt: Yeah, I get asked this um a lot as well, and it and it often changes, but um Christina Mitsmar on the podcast talked about showing up, and as she she said, like that was her one piece of advice, show up, and I was like nodding my head, like in it in an almost obsequious fashion.
• 35:06
  Matt: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 35:07
  Matt: You're right.
• 35:08
  Matt: Just getting getting out of bed, doing the things that you may not want to do at that specific time, but you know that are important, showing up to those when you know nothing is going to come from that directly, right?
• 35:28
  Matt: In that moment, or directly from taking that action.
• 35:31
  Matt: Most of what I've built in my life and still building, right?
• 35:35
  Matt: Nothing I don't have my shit together.
• 35:37
  Matt: I wouldn't consider myself successful, other than I get to do a lot of the things that I love to do.
• 35:43
  Matt: Um most of what I built was invisible and most importantly, repetitive, like repetition consistency.
• 35:55
  Matt: I'm sat here recording this now, about to jump on a podcast with Zara Chiadi part two, hence the if you're watching on video, hence the kind of the scattered nature of the studio.
• 36:06
  Matt: But I turn up to this all the time, and now you know we're 150 episodes in, and I feel like you know, I'm I'm still at the beginning.
• 36:20
  Matt: Still feel like I'm still at the beginning, but I believe in what I'm doing, the message that I'm trying to put out there and the people I'm trying to help.
• 36:29
  Matt: I don't see that.
• 36:30
  Matt: I yeah, I get the odd message, which is really, really nice and it just means so much to me and puts, you know, gives me goosebumps, puts smiles on my face.
• 36:38
  Matt: I get the odd stupid fucking comment as well.
• 36:41
  Matt: Um, but you know, I get I do get some feedback.
• 36:44
  Matt: But if you think about my audience, probably I'd say, you know, less than 0.1% of those people actually provide something in return, whether it's a subscription or whether it's uh an engagement or whether it's uh an email or whether it's some kind of feedback, right?
• 37:05
  Matt: So like I do I do that, I do this, not for that, right?
• 37:11
  Matt: I do it because I know that people see it.
• 37:13
  Matt: I just believe that people um get something from this.
• 37:17
  Matt: Me most importantly, so um the small steps that I took for where I am now is um consistency.
• 37:28
  Matt: So that's not really a small step, is it?
• 37:30
  Matt: That's a big step.
• 37:31
  Matt: But showing up every day and not making excuses for it.
• 37:38
  Matt: Um I'm always always just like there's one thing of about wisdom when you grow a little bit older.
• 37:44
  Matt: I'm now 44, but so I'm not old, but I I have enough wisdom to know that 99.9% of the time when I just show up, something good comes from it, whether it's for me or for someone else.
• 37:57
  Matt: So that's that's what help helps me drive.
• 38:01
  Matt: Um people see the podcast, the photos, the community, they don't see years and years of struggling and figuring it out and being alone, being really, really alone all the time, day in, day out, underneath all that.
• 38:17
  Matt: Um, all of the emailing and and outreaching to guests and to brand sponsors that never get replies, right?
• 38:24
  Matt: I know, poor me, but um just trying to think of examples, um, recording early episodes that no one listened to, um, doing the same level of prep for doing days of research to uh to a guest that never turned up um or that never eventually turned up, um, shooting on days off when I shouldn't be shooting, um, and when I was jet lagged and didn't want to, throwing away work I liked because it didn't belong, or that really hurts.
• 38:54
  Matt: Reading photo books slowly, meditating every day, um uh coming to team meetings with positive attitudes, um, finding compassion, learning myself, reading, like all of these things that no one sees, but they go into being a better person, being a better photographer, being a better host, being hopefully a better manager, team member, community member, um, whatever it is.
• 39:22
  Matt: Uh this I mean, there's so there's so many experiences.
• 39:25
  Matt: I'm a huge, huge, huge proponent of the 1%.
• 39:28
  Matt: Right?
• 39:29
  Matt: Every day, what are we going to improve by 1%?
• 39:31
  Matt: Is it getting up five minutes earlier?
• 39:33
  Matt: Is it spending five more minutes with our children that with no distractions?
• 39:38
  Matt: Is it five more minutes without devices?
• 39:40
  Matt: Is it not having that cake for one day?
• 39:44
  Matt: I'm that's me all over, right?
• 39:48
  Matt: Can I go one day without having something sweet?
• 39:52
  Matt: It's difficult.
• 39:53
  Matt: Can I have um you know it's just what the one percenters?
• 39:57
  Matt: How can I be better in this moment right now, talking to you on this camera?
• 40:02
  Matt: How can I be more articulate and get my point across to you right now?
• 40:06
  Matt: It's all of these tiny little one percenters.
• 40:09
  Matt: How could I have prepared for this QA better so that you can get more from it?
• 40:13
  Matt: You know, the it the small steps compound, those one percent compounds.
• 40:18
  Matt: We all understand that with finances, but we don't always understand it with personal development, with professional development, with being better humans.
• 40:26
  Matt: Um, because you don't notice them.
• 40:28
  Matt: They're much, much more intangible and you don't notice them until you look back.
• 40:32
  Matt: And I I hate that feel, I hate that feeling of looking back and going, those were the either those were the the glory days, or look back and go, wow, that distance is huge.
• 40:43
  Matt: I don't know what happened in the middle.
• 40:45
  Matt: I wasn't present, right?
• 40:46
  Matt: Um, or I didn't wasn't aware of what was going on.
• 40:49
  Matt: So if you're in the those invisible years right now, that's not a sign that you're failing.
• 40:55
  Matt: That's actually um is what the beginning looks like.
• 40:59
  Matt: That's really, really where the work is happening.
• 41:01
  Matt: Just say, like, just try and have those moments where you're aware of it.
• 41:06
  Matt: Um yeah, hopefully, hopefully that helps.
• 41:09
  Matt: I mean, there's too many, there's too many small things that I do in the shadows that no one sees.
• 41:14
  Matt: And the trick is, it's like um, you know, photography is a solitary pursuit, right?
• 41:20
  Matt: We all see the output.
• 41:21
  Matt: Like when you put it out there in the world, we see the output.
• 41:24
  Matt: Wow, amazing photograph.
• 41:25
  Matt: You don't see all of the times you spent alone, all of the failures that you did.
• 41:31
  Matt: That's but that's really where the growth happens, and that's really where we have to find a way to be not just comfortable with it, but enjoy it.
• 41:39
  Matt: Enjoy, I love doing shadow work.
• 41:42
  Matt: I love doing the work that no one sees because I don't do it for anyone else.
• 41:48
  Matt: I do I do it for me in the in the in the belief and the faith that I'm go I'm going to be better because of it.
• 41:54
  Matt: And if I'm better because of it, we have this butterfly effect that I'm going to make other people better because of it, whether that's through photography podcasts or just being a human being.
• 42:03
  Matt: So um uh good for you.
• 42:05
  Matt: I know, I know you're you're big on that as well, um, because I know you a little bit, and um I'm I'm right there, I'm right there with you um and by your side when you when you're going through kind of the the work that that no one else sees.
• 42:19
  Matt: And I I know I know how painful it can be, but you try and flip it, try and you know, really enjoy those those parts.
• 42:28
  Matt: Okay, um penultimate question here from Nemanja Rangeloff.
• 42:33
  Matt: Uh, how do you deal with perfectionism as a photographer, especially when it comes to shooting and editing?
• 42:38
  Matt: I often find myself obsessing over tiny details and feeling like the photo is never quite good enough.
• 42:44
  Matt: How do you know when to stop?
• 42:46
  Matt: Again, I get asked this every month, uh, at least.
• 42:51
  Matt: Um, I'll be quick.
• 42:54
  Matt: Perfectionism is fear dressed as standards.
• 42:58
  Matt: Obsessing over tiny details is usually just a way of avoiding the big question, which is does this photo or does this picture mean anything?
• 43:08
  Matt: Only you can answer that.
• 43:11
  Matt: You know to stop when you've stopped improving it and started just changing it.
• 43:16
  Matt: We've all done that, right?
• 43:17
  Matt: You're trying to find a way to improve it, all you do is end up just um changing it.
• 43:23
  Matt: Stop.
• 43:24
  Matt: Standards are healthy.
• 43:26
  Matt: I'm big on like um you know, I have my team members here, it's like they know my standards are ridiculously high.
• 43:34
  Matt: But perfectionism is different.
• 43:36
  Matt: Standards finish work and set expectations.
• 43:40
  Matt: Perfectionism, perfectionism prevents it, right?
• 43:44
  Matt: Underneath perfectionism is usually fear of judgment.
• 43:47
  Matt: So look inside, get to know yourself, ask that question, sit with it until you have an answer.
• 43:54
  Matt: Where is the perfectionism coming from?
• 43:57
  Matt: We always think.
• 43:59
  Matt: It's gotta be perfect.
• 44:01
  Matt: Like I don't want to put it out there until it's perfect.
• 44:03
  Matt: Or why?
• 44:04
  Matt: Why?
• 44:05
  Matt: Because you don't want to be judged for it being bad, right?
• 44:08
  Matt: So that's a that's a that's the ego talking.
• 44:11
  Matt: That's um that's insecurity, which everyone has.
• 44:15
  Matt: I'm not judging, like me included.
• 44:17
  Matt: So a lot of people, including myself, think twice before you share something to someone, even if it's just to an individual.
• 44:24
  Matt: But underneath perfectionism is usually a fit of judgment.
• 44:27
  Matt: If it's never finished, it can never be judged.
• 44:30
  Matt: If it's not good enough, it'll be judged badly.
• 44:33
  Matt: Tiny details feel like control, right?
• 44:36
  Matt: The big questions, like what do you care about?
• 44:39
  Matt: Why are you doing this now?
• 44:41
  Matt: Why should we care?
• 44:42
  Matt: Whether the picture actually matters, they're out of your control.
• 44:46
  Matt: So we hide in the details.
• 44:48
  Matt: You know, we I've talked about this all the time.
• 44:50
  Matt: Technically, perfect picture with nothing at stake is always empty.
• 44:54
  Matt: I'm not interested.
• 44:55
  Matt: A flawed picture with charge beats it every time.
• 44:59
  Matt: And that charge is where you can't add your perfectionism because that's just the charge.
• 45:04
  Matt: It's just this inherent magic that's in a photo.
• 45:08
  Matt: Um yeah, hopefully I I said it'll be quick, so I I won't, I won't dwell on on that too much.
• 45:16
  Matt: Um, but maybe test like if you can't say what the change or what the the enhancement of whatever you're working on is for, you're done.
• 45:28
  Matt: Walk away.
• 45:29
  Matt: Give it some time, give it some emotional space, because a week later, most of the fixes you're assessing over won't even matter.
• 45:36
  Matt: But people think about finishing and like, when's this finished?
• 45:39
  Matt: And how do I finish?
• 45:40
  Matt: Finishing is a skill.
• 45:41
  Matt: Finishing is a skill.
• 45:43
  Matt: The more you finish, the less scary it gets.
• 45:46
  Matt: So practice finishing, right?
• 45:48
  Matt: Take that first step between perfectionism, like seeking perfection and actually finishing it, regardless of perfection.
• 45:55
  Matt: That is the biggest step you're gonna make.
• 45:57
  Matt: You're gonna be jumping at the deep end, but you're gonna be swimming until you're walking up to the up to the shallow end.
• 46:01
  Matt: The more you finish, the more you practice.
• 46:03
  Matt: Because perfect work doesn't exist.
• 46:06
  Matt: Finished work does, and only finished work can teach you or anyone else anything.
• 46:12
  Matt: Okay, last question.
• 46:16
  Matt: Asked by uh another community member, Suzanne Pedersen.
• 46:19
  Matt: I never quite know how people approach a long or short-term project.
• 46:23
  Matt: What makes a body of work definable?
• 46:25
  Matt: I've always envied photographers who have had this vision to show something in a project, but I've never had that.
• 46:31
  Matt: Well, you're in the right place.
• 46:33
  Matt: Um, I'm sorry that uh you you you don't feel like you've had that before.
• 46:38
  Matt: My take is that there are two roads into a project, and both are valid.
• 46:44
  Matt: Some photographers start with a vision.
• 46:47
  Matt: They know exactly what they want to say and they go and try and make it.
• 46:51
  Matt: Others start with a pull.
• 46:53
  Matt: They keep photographing something without really knowing why, and the vision appears more in the edit.
• 46:59
  Matt: Most of us move between these two.
• 47:02
  Matt: Not having a vision yet doesn't mean you lack one, right?
• 47:06
  Matt: It might mean you're just on that second road.
• 47:10
  Matt: So, look, vision first photographers exist.
• 47:13
  Matt: It's a real strength.
• 47:14
  Matt: I envy a lot of them.
• 47:15
  Matt: They arrive with a question, a concept, to sort it out, go and shoot it.
• 47:20
  Matt: Not as interesting to me.
• 47:23
  Matt: Um, their risk is illustrating an idea instead of discovering something.
• 47:27
  Matt: The pictures can feel kind of planned and airless in that respect.
• 47:31
  Matt: Discovery first photographers, on the other hand, follow that pull and they shoot what they're drawn to and find the shape later.
• 47:38
  Matt: So there's kind of like a way that you don't have to put so much pressure on yourself and just shoot what you see, shoot what you feel with a little bit of structure, a few constraints.
• 47:47
  Matt: But the risk of those discovery first photographers is that they end up just drifting forever, right?
• 47:52
  Matt: And never really committing to a body of work.
• 47:55
  Matt: The best projects usually do both starting vision, then the courage to let the pictures change it.
• 48:02
  Matt: That's what, in my experience, that's what I've seen the most.
• 48:06
  Matt: Even vision first photographers revise the book.
• 48:10
  Matt: If it's a book at the end, rarely matches the plan at the start, but all the time, right?
• 48:14
  Matt: Um, what makes a body of work definable?
• 48:19
  Matt: Uh well, the pictures need each other, right?
• 48:21
  Matt: So pull one out and the rest feel it.
• 48:25
  Matt: So we we need we need each other.
• 48:28
  Matt: We need that those pictures need each other.
• 48:31
  Matt: So the the the body of work definable, you defined has edges.
• 48:37
  Matt: You can say what belongs and just as important what doesn't.
• 48:42
  Matt: It has a question or tension running through it all the time, not just a subject.
• 48:47
  Matt: My town is a subject.
• 48:50
  Matt: What stays when everyone leaves is a question.
• 48:54
  Matt: Play with both, right?
• 48:56
  Matt: Short projects that we talked about earlier, question with tight edges, one place, one season, one idea.
• 49:02
  Matt: Long projects, more like a question that keeps deepening the longer you stay with it.
• 49:06
  Matt: Your vision is most like, like I said before, your vision is guaranteed to already be in your archive.
• 49:12
  Matt: What you keep returning to without being asked is that clue.
• 49:17
  Matt: Vision can also be built on purpose.
• 49:19
  Matt: So write your brief, write your values, write your um belief systems, set rules, choose a form, ask yourself, what do you care about?
• 49:29
  Matt: Why now?
• 49:30
  Matt: Why should other people care?
• 49:32
  Matt: And commit to it.
• 49:33
  Matt: Envy is a useful information as well, useful piece of information as well.
• 49:39
  Matt: What projects do you envy?
• 49:41
  Matt: If you're talking about envying those those vision first photographers, find some.
• 49:46
  Matt: That points at what you want to make, right?
• 49:49
  Matt: That gives you some clues.
• 49:50
  Matt: So why do you envy them?
• 49:53
  Matt: Right.
• 49:53
  Matt: It's because they already have that idea and that concept in mind.
• 49:57
  Matt: So start researching.
• 49:59
  Matt: Start understanding what you care about, what you want to investigate.
• 50:03
  Matt: Um, pull your favorite 50 pictures from the last couple of years, lay them out together and write three things that keep repeating.
• 50:11
  Matt: Start there, right?
• 50:13
  Matt: It's in the the my my core um core materials, like how to how to learn to um refine your voice in the in the community.
• 50:22
  Matt: 12 modules there.
• 50:23
  Matt: Um, Suzanne, I think you're working through those anyway, but start doing that.
• 50:28
  Matt: That's basically going to take you, take you through this pro this um this process.
• 50:32
  Matt: Okay, that's it for now.
• 50:35
  Matt: I'm sorry I can't um maybe give you uh clearer or longer explanations.
• 50:39
  Matt: Um hopefully that's enough.
• 50:41
  Matt: If not, guys, shoot me if you're the one that answered one of these questions and you still want more explanation, just shoot me a message and I'll be happy to answer them.
• 50:50
  Matt: But for this week, that is um enough of QA.
• 50:53
  Matt: Um, it's been great to have you along again.
• 50:56
  Matt: Thank you so much for listening.
• 50:57
  Matt: Thank you so much for watching.
• 50:59
  Matt: Please don't forget to subscribe.
• 51:00
  Matt: Um, please don't forget to check out our community where we talk about these things week in, week out, on the daily, and um there you will find so much more valuable information when it comes to QA's like this.
• 51:14
  Matt: All right, I will see you in the next one.
• 51:16
  Matt: Happy shooting.