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Skincare, science, sustainability and more with Dr. Courtney Rubin! · The Science of Skin

• 0:09
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Dr.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_01: Patty Ferris.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a board certified dermatologist, and I'm your host for this episode of Skin Care Confidential.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: For those of you who have not been with us before, Skin Care Confidential is an extension of our medical meeting called the Science of Skin Care Summit.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_01: And we started the podcast to give our listeners really a 360 view of the skincare industry.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_01: And today we've got someone who's going to really, I think, bring it full circle for us, and that is Dr.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_01: Courtney Rubin.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: Courtney is the co-founder, or no, yes, you're a co-founder of the skincare line FIG One.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_01: She, I'm going to read you her bio real quickly.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_01: She is a board-certified dermatologist.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: She also practices in California in Pasadena.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_01: She completed her DERM training program and master's degree in bioethics at the University of Pennsylvania.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_01: Good for you.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't realize you had a degree in bioethics.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: And she also served as chief resident there.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_01: She is the co-founder and the chief medical officer of Fig One Skin Care Line, which is a clinically proven skincare line of refillable products priced for everyday use.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_01: So we're going to talk all about it.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_01: And she also was formerly on the an instructor at Harvard University, and she went by coastal on us, went from East Coast to West Coast.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_01: I remember all that.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_01: So Courtney, welcome.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so excited to have you.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much, Patty.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so excited to be here with you.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for having me on.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_01: Well, so I'll never forget the day that you called me.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: I was just thinking about that day.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_01: No, I didn't even know who Courtney Rubin was.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I get a phone call on my cell phone, and she's identifies herself as this Courtney Rubin, dermatologist.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: And you were at Harvard at the time.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: And you had been given my name and number by a very close friend of mine who's also a dermatologist.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_01: So of course I'm like, yes, Courtney, what can I do for you?
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_01: And you started explaining to me about the skincare line you were starting.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_01: And the first thought that went through my mind, I'm not going to lie about this, was do we, does the world need another skincare line?
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_01: Like this is a question that we all ask ourselves as they keep rolling out.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_01: And after you sort of made your case, I thought to myself, like, this girl is on to something because you really have created a line that I think fills a niche that was not filled.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I know I'm probably getting the audience there like, what is she doing?
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_01: So let's talk about it.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_01: Let's talk about why did you think that the world needed another skincare line?
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_00: And it's so funny that you bring up that phone call because I was just thinking about that exchange that we had this morning.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_00: You know, Fig one, we have a whole panel of key opinion leaders on our scientific advisory board.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_00: And you're on that panel along with some other very wonderful board-certified dermatologists.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_00: But actually, you were the only member of that panel who I did not know personally before I reached out to you.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: But you have such an amazing reputation for your knowledge of skincare, skincare science, cosmeceuticals, ingredients, that I was just so, so hopeful that I would cold call you and you would be receptive to the idea.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember you immediately sort of getting it when I explained what the concept was for Fig one.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I'm so, so happy at your, you know, involvement with the business literally from day one, since before we even had any formulas developed.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_01: It was really an early idea, early, early days then.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, we hadn't, we had no formulas made yet.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the concept really came from an observation from my own clinical practice.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_00: And it was realizing that there was so much enthusiasm for skincare knowledge and education, especially education coming from someone with expertise and training in the field.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I wrote this paper, um, Natural Does Not Mean Safe, uh a paper all about clean beauty and myth busting.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_01: I love that paper, by the way.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_01: I love that paper.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_01: I quote it on the podium all the time.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: It is to this day still the only paper about the clean beauty movement that's ever been published in a peer-reviewed scientific journal.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_00: So that um was published in Jamadermatology in 2019, and it was the number three most read article of the year in 2019 in Jamaderm, which is like a big-time medical journal for dermatologists.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_00: So that was the first sort of inkling that I got for the fact that, you know, there's a lot of hunger.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: People care about understanding the truth and the science behind skincare and active ingredients, and they want to hear from someone with expertise in the field.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_00: And so then I started to realize, you know, wow, I have all these patients coming into the office and they're coming in for Pemphagus and for lupus and psoriasis and eczema and acne, but they all want to talk about skincare.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_00: They all want to slip questions about skincare into their visits, and yet almost and yet almost no one is walking out the door having purchased any of the skincare being sold at the front of the office.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I realized that, you know, front of office skincare is often very expensive, often in the$100,$150,$200 price points.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_00: And so many patients struggle with just a$20 or$30 medical copay.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_00: And so then seeing that sort of disconnect, I started to wonder, you know, where is the affordably priced, price for everyday use performance skincare, that really value-based, clinically active skincare that you don't have to save your whole paycheck to purchase.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: And that's really the space that Fig one lives in.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_00: And that's been our sort of North Star mission from day one of the concept is to create skincare that dermatologists want to use themselves, skincare that dermatologists want to sell in their office and stand behind because it utilizes the right ingredients at the right clinically active concentrations where the claims are verified by third-party clinical studies in packaging that's refillable and more planet conscious while also being drugstore price point and accessible.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_00: Because the other issue with really expensive skincare that I see all the time is that when people spend$200 on a serum, they ration it and they don't use it every day.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_00: They only use it once in a while and on special occasions.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, with skincare, it's all about compliance.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: You don't see results unless you're actually using it.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_00: And so by unlocking this more accessibly priced, everyday price skincare, it encourages people to actually use it, actually use it every day so that you can actually get the most benefit from it.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: Makes total sense.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_01: You you touched a little bit on sustainability, but I know that's a huge part of your platform for the for this brand, and it's so important today.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_01: So talk about it, all your cool packaging, and it's really so interesting.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I would say trying to be trying to make better choices, um, not just with packaging and the packaging lifecycle, but the entire sort of vertically integrated um life cycle of our products has been a mainstay of our brand.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_00: And that's really one of the benefits of being a small brand is that we can be very nimble, we can make changes quickly, we can respond to different market forces in a way that's a lot easier compared to brands that are established legacy and have all of these, you know, red tape and these procedures in place.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_00: And so trying to be sustainably minded has been really important from day one of Fig One.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_00: It really started with the idea of packaging.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_00: Packaging is the part of the product lifecycle that all the consumers interact with, and we're the ones that are responsible for sort of dealing with packaging waste.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_00: So that's that's really top of mind and what we wanted to tackle first.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: And so we decided to move forward with a refillable packaging concept.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_00: So when you buy a product of ours for the first time, you get three components.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_00: You get an airless pump which screws on and off, you get an outer glass sort of shell that you keep, and then the product is actually housed in an inner plastic refill cartridge.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_00: And what I love about the system is that it's airless and lightless.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: So it also supports sort of the efficacy and activity of all those amazing active ingredients that we're putting inside because we all know that ingredients like retinol and vitamin C, you know, they're they're unstable.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_00: And we can do everything from a formula standpoint to stabilize them, but minimizing exposure to air and light is also paramount.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_00: So I love that this refillable system also sort of supports the efficacy of our formulas and our formula active ingredients.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, basically, once you finish a product, once the inner plastic refill cartridge is totally used up, you just screw off the pump, you screw off the glass, and you recycle the inner refill cartridge.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's curbside recyclable, and then you can just replace that inner refill cartridge.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_00: You can just order the cartridge, screw the pump back on, screw the glass back on, and so in that way you have saved yourself from having to reorder those two components because they're reusable.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, our consumers love this option.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_00: They love um reducing that packaging waste associated with the products.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_00: And we also, you know, recycling is really challenging.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_00: We felt really strongly that we wanted the inner refill cartridges to be made out of a recyclable material.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: But if you look into sort of the stream of recycling, especially curbside recycling, so many beauty products that get curbside recycled don't actually make it to having another life and another product.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_00: Recycling.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_00: Because there's all sorts of sort of sorting protocols when you get to the recycling plant, and a lot of these products are so small, they sort of slip through the grates.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_00: And so we also partner with an amazing business called PACT.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_00: And PACT specializes just in recycling uh beauty products and consumer packaged goods type products.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_00: And so we offer our Fig One customers the opportunity to recycle with PACT, and you know, we'll send them an envelope to put their products in, to send it to PACT, then we can be 100% sure that product is going to have another life, it will get recycled, and then we offer the consumer a discount on their next refill by doing that.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's so interesting.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_01: So you incentivize that.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly, exactly.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: And the other thing is when consumers purchase a refill from us, they save$5 compared to the first time buy.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_00: So there's a financial incentive to continue refilling, and the amount of money that we save by not sending them those additional packaging components, we pass on to the consumer, which I think is just nice for the consumer.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: Really nice for the consumer.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_01: Now, you're not just the dispensing line, you're all over now.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_01: So talk about your distribution.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_01: I know you're in CVS and you're international.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, it's going quicker than I can even keep up with.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, absolutely.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, we started direct to consumer.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_00: We we actually launched in June of 2021.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_00: So we're still a young brand.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: We just turned three.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, initially, we started direct to consumer and also in our, we call it our pro channel, our professional channel.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: So in dermatology offices, in med spas, we are sold at Heyday, which is a med spa chain that I really love for facials.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_00: And then we're also in 50 dermatology practices in the New York area and also in a handful of other practices across the country.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_00: So we we love working with dermatologists and having practicing dermatologists recommending and standing behind our products.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um last year we actually launched in 3,000 CVS retail locations, which was a huge, um, amazing partnership for us.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_00: You know, the vast majority of Americans live within five miles of a CVS, and so much of our ethos is around increasing access to high-quality skincare.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: So being in having a retail partner that puts us in front of so many more Americans was a really, really amazing opportunity.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: We're also with Walmart e-commerce and ShopBop and Amazon, but really what we've been focusing on this year has been our international expansion and sort of becoming a global beauty brand.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_00: And so we launched with Mecca in Australia and New Zealand this year in 150 stores, which is so exciting for us.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_00: I actually just got back from visiting Sydney and Melbourne and the Mecca stores there and the Mecca team.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_00: That was last month, and the they really have just such an incredible operation going on there, and their commitment to doing what's right for the consumer and sort of beauty as a feeling is just a really wonderful sort of spiritual partnership between Fig One and Mecca.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_00: So we love that.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_00: And then we also launched at Cult Beauty in the United Kingdom last month as well.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_00: So we are we're well on our way.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: You know, international operations opens up like a whole nother can of worms in terms of you know manufacturing and compliance, and um there's never a dull day when it comes to sort of what we're doing at Fig One, but it's really, really exciting to be able to bring these products to even more consumers around the world.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_01: So yes, so many consumers.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_01: So talk a little bit about your um I like some of your hero products, some of the things that you're really excited about.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_01: I know you're big in sunscreens and talk about the new sunscreen that you just launched.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but you know, some of the hero products, so people listening know kind of what's big one about.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_00: So I would say pretty much every product that we've made is inspired directly from my experiences caring for patients and seeing what their biggest skincare concerns are and what their frustrations are in terms of what they're not able to find in the market.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: My personal ethos is to never create something that already exists.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_00: So everything always has a little additional thoughtfulness or sort of a fig one twist to it.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_00: I'll give you some examples.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so our ceramide moisturizer, which is one of our best-selling daily basic facial moisturizers, I like to call it the basic white t-shirt of moisturizers, like everyone should have this in their wardrobe, was really inspired by my Accutane patients because my Accutane patients, most of them are teenagers, their skin is so dry, so parched, they have no functioning sebaceous glands, but none of them want to use a heavy, sticky, gloopy, creamy moisturizer.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_00: So my challenge was we need a lightweight lotion that rubs in really easily, just melts into the skin, but is deeply hydrating.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_00: And so this ceramide moisturizer, it's lightweight, it never pills or balls up.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's great for layering with makeup and sunscreen, but in kinetic moisturization studies, it hydrates for a full 24 hours.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_00: So very deeply hydrating for a product that feels so lightweight.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_00: Another example, our niacinamide treatment, which is 4% niacinamide, postbiotic ferments and filtrates from galactomyces and lactobacillus, and also copper, magnesium, and zinc ions.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's a really beautiful calming and soothing skin treatment that was inspired by my rosacea patients because you know their skin is sensitive, it's reddened, they're not able to use active ingredients like glycolic acid, vitamin C, retinol, but they want to use active skincare too.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_00: And so we created this calming and soothing treatment, and actually all of the subjects who were enrolled in the clinical study that we did on this treatment had rosacea, and we were able to show with data that there is a reduction in visible redness with the use of this treatment after four weeks, which is a really hard claim to substantiate.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_00: So we're super proud of that.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_00: I think one of our one of our best-selling products is our micellar oil cleanser, which is bright green because of the grapeseed oil that we use.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I have so many patients that are afraid of using oil cleansers because they're afraid oils are going to break them out.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_00: But it's actually on the contrary, you need an oil cleanser to sort of break down oil-based sunscreen, foundation, concealer, um, because light dissolves like, and you really have to get all of that off the skin so it doesn't sit in pores and cause more acne.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_00: But my major gripe with oil cleansers is that a lot of them leave sort of an oily film on the skin, and then you're sort of on the hook for cleansing a second time.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's a double cleanse.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: You have to do a double cleanse.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't like to add more steps, I'd rather take steps away.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_00: So we created this oil cleanser that's actually biphasic.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: So it starts as an oil, you massage it into dry skin, it breaks down all of your makeup, your sunscreen, all of everything that's built up on the surface of your skin.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_00: But then when you add water to rinse it away, it actually phase shifts and turns into a milky aqueous liquid that rinses away totally clean.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_00: So you don't actually have to do that second cleanse.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_00: You can if you want to, but you don't have to.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_01: But you don't have to.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: And then I would say, like our anchor product that I'm probably the most proud of is our level up system for our retinol night cream.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think as dermatologists, we love vitamin A, we love retinoids, we love retinol, we know that they're so evident, we know they work, we know they're safe, we know how to formulate with them, we know the right concentrations that you need to see change in the skin.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_00: But I have to tell you, when I bring up retinoids with my patients, a lot of them are really nervous to use retinoids.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_00: They've had a bad experience, you know, they've exactly their intolerant.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, exactly.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_00: They've had dryness, they've had burning and stinging, flaking.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so many of my patients would say, you know, I'm actually allergic to retinoids, I don't tolerate them.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: And so I remember thinking to myself, it's really too bad that more people can't get the benefit of this amazing ingredient.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_00: And is there something we can do so that more people can benefit from retinol without those side effects that turn people off from the ingredient?
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_00: So we came up with this idea of the level up system.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: And so there's three levels.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_00: Level one is a night cream with 0.15% encapsulated retinol.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_00: This is the perfect introductory concentration for someone who's never used a vitamin A.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_00: You use this night cream nightly for six to eight weeks.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_00: It allows your skin to sort of adjust to a low level of retinol, and then you can move up to level two, which is 0.3% encapsulated retinol, and then you can move up to level three, which is 0.6% encapsulated retinol, for more advanced users.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_00: And so by being able to sort of gradually increase the exposure of retinol that your skin has to contend with slowly over time, you can retinize your skin without dealing with side effects, irritation, dryness, burning, stinging, all of the other bad things.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_00: We did a 12-week expert-graded clinical study on our retinol level one that showed amazing results: refinement of pores, reduction in the appearance of fine lines and wrinkles, reduction in the appearance of dark spots, improved radiance.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_00: It hydrates for 24 hours in kinetic moisturization, skin barrier supportive, gentle.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: So it's not gentle because there's no retinol in it.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's gentle because of all of the things that we did with the formulation to allow your skin to tolerate that retinol better, which includes, you know, supporting the functionality of your skin barrier, using an encapsulated retinol system so that it sort of hits the skin slowly over the course of the night and doesn't hit it all at once.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so it's a formula that so many I get text messages all the time from people who say, I've never been able to use retinol before, and I'm finally able to use it because of your level one.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_00: And that is like the most gratifying thing for me.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and certainly 0.1 is 0.15 is a good retinol.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_01: It is.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's a good concentration and it should give you clinical benefits, and obviously your studies show that it does.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I wish if I could wish anything in my career, it's that I can could have convinced people to stop putting tretinoin on photoage patients.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_01: Oh because it's such a negative experience.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_01: I always think retinol is so much better than retinoic acid.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_01: I really do.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_01: It's just too irritating, it's too aggressive, and you're putting these superphysiologic doses of retinoids on the skin, and people don't like it.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_01: I could never tolerate it.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_01: I can use retinol.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: It burns their faces off and it gives people a little that really negative experience.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_00: There's no going back after that.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, there's no going back.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_00: You can never redo that horrible, horrible core memory.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_01: I know.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_01: As your skin's peeling and it's red.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, if you're old enough like I am, that was really we didn't really understand all the nuances of retinol being converted to retinoic acid and how we could use it as a precursor molecule.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_01: We just didn't really understand all that.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_01: And the early retinols were all unstable.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_01: So it we didn't really have a choice.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_01: All of a sudden, retinoic acid came out, and we're like, yippee, I oh, we can use this, and it worked.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_01: So, I mean, it's always like everything else, it's a progression over time.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_00: Totally.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's so interesting because you're saying, you know, in the early days, we did there was so much that we didn't know, and that's the benefit now of utilizing ingredients that have been around for decades.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_00: That, you know, we've had so much experience using them and formulating with them that we do now understand how to stabilize them, what the right concentrations are, what the differences in are between the different precursors as they interchange between each other.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why at Fig One, I really shy away from using any sort of new or Trendy ingredient because we don't have the experience of using these ingredients on human skin and seeing how skin reacts over the course of not just weeks to months, but years to decades.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um that's just I think of fig one as sort of like uh tr maybe trendless or sort of the equivalent of like slow fashion, you know, we're like slow skincare.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_00: That's okay.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_01: Slow and steady wins the race.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_01: Talk about your sunscreen because I know you worked on that sunscreen forever.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh, yes.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_01: We seems like we had a call about that so long ago, but now it's launched.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_01: And tell us about the technology and what makes it new and interesting.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, the sunscreen.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_00: So we launched the sunscreen in June of this year, and we actually spent over three years formulating this sunscreen.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_00: It we we were working on it before Fig One even launched into the world.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_00: And this sunscreen is is very special.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: I think as a dermatologist, I always wanted a sunscreen in the Fig One line.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you you and I both know how important it is to protect your skin from sort of the harms of PV rays.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_00: I actually tell my own patients that sunscreen is like a 401k plan for your face.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: And every time you use it, you're investing in the future health of your skin.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_00: So I always wanted there to be a sunscreen in the line.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: And what I was noticing was that a lot of my patients were opting for zinc-based, mineral-based sunscreens for a myriad of reasons, you know, sensitive skin, contact dermatitis, eczema, sensitive eyes.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_00: And it was very hard.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_00: TikTok.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, TikTok.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I think all of us have had the experience of buying a mineral sunscreen, putting it on our skin, and having this ghostly white cast and just seeing it's chalky, it's not fun to use, it turns you off from sunscreen.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_00: And so, really, the challenge for us was create a high protection SPF 50 zinc-based sunscreen.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_00: And this is 18% zinc formula.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's a very substantial dose of zinc, but make it totally invisible with no white cast.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_00: And we developed the sunscreen ourselves.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_00: We didn't license it out from a contract manufacturer, so we own the IP.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, that's why it took three years because we weren't going to make any version that didn't meet our threshold for you know, is there tinted and untinted and untinted?
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_00: So it comes out of the bottle as sort of a white like lotion, and then as you rub it in, it goes totally clear.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's it's a very, very impressive formula.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_00: It contains hydrating ingredients, skincare ingredients like hyaluronic acid, and then I'm sure you're familiar with um C algae extract, photoliase, and endonuclease, which are the DNA repair enzymes.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_00: So we've also included those in the formula, which I absolutely love.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_00: And this is, I think it's$37.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_00: So$37 for such an advanced high protection formula that utilizes these performance ingredients, like the C algae extract, I think is is so wonderful and high value for consumers.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_01: Agree.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_01: DNA repair enzymes should be in every sensor.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_00: They should be, but you know, they're not because they're expensive to formulate with.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_00: They're they're definitely an investment.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, for every patient who has skin cancer, I recommend DNA repair enzymes.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_01: They're just essential.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_00: They're amazing.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_00: I wish more people knew to look out for them.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, and I don't think they they do.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um just sort of more generically, like what surprised you when you got into the skincare industry?
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, so many things.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_00: I think the thing that surprises me the most and continues to surprise me on like a daily basis is just how much misinformation there is in skincare.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like in every part of skincare, from like ingredient safety from you know, sustainability standpoint, what like what does it actually mean to be eco-friendly or sustainable or to make better choices, um, misinformation about UV light and light from the sun and the damage that it causes, just all the time it feels like there's some sort of myth that needs to be debunked.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I think, I think it's so important for dermatologists to sort of stake our claim in this space as experts, because if we don't, and if we're not educating and talking about these issues and sort of setting the record straight from like a science and evidence-based perspective, that space is going to be filled with non-experts and influencers and celebrities who are giving information that's really misleading and sometimes even harmful.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_01: 100%.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_01: So, what do you see, you know, in our last minute or two?
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_01: What do you see for the future of Fig One?
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_01: We you have to tell everybody how you pick the name Fig One, by the way.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's cute, such a cute story.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_00: So Fig one is a reference to what they call the first figure in a scientific journal.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_00: So it's called Figure One or Fig One for short.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_00: And it's sort of the way that we are able to wink at the consumer and let them know, like, hey, even though we have this beautiful packaging and we're gonna make skincare really accessible and streamlined and easy for you, like we also have the science on our side.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so that's where Fig One came from.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_00: And in terms of what's next for us, I think um international expansion and just getting our product in front of more consumers is really paramount right now.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, there there are ways that I hope to expand our line in the future.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_00: I think acne is a really huge opportunity.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's something that I see in the office all the time.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_01: Hyperpigmentation.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, absolutely.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_00: And then just expanding our sunscreen offering.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think there's any one size fits all sunscreen.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_00: I think you really need sort of a sunscreen wardrobe.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_00: And so really sort of building that out, I think, would be really exciting.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that that's a really good way to look at it.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think one of the most exciting things about skincare right now is we're really seeing a time when OTCs and cosmetic products can really change the skin.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, now people aren't using hydroquinone, they're going to, you know, these combination OTCs that work so beautiful.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_01: I know you have them in your line.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_01: And the same with facial redness, as you pointed out.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_01: So we're entering really an era where the cosmetic industry is playing a major role in treating dermatologic diseases and dermatologic conditions.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_00: And considering only 4% of Americans even have access to a dermatologist, being able to just walk into your neighborhood CVS and access so many of these cosmosceuticals that are, you know, available without a prescription is really powerful.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_01: I agree.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_01: And at a great price point, which I love the way you've democratized it and made it made it affordable.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_01: So you're a total trailblazer entrepreneur.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_01: I knew it the first day we talked, and I did understand your message.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I I love the line that you've created and everything that you're doing.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_01: So keep on keeping on.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_01: Bringing great skincare to people, stay on social media because I'm getting too old to deal with this.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_01: But stay out there and keep sending the messages so people get good information.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_01: And it's great to have you.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for joining us today, Courtney.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so, so much.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_00: I so appreciate your vote of confidence.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_00: It means so much, and it was an absolute pleasure to be on the podcast with you.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for having me.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks everybody for listening.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_01: Take care of it.